Occupational Licensing

Mandatory Auditions, License Requirements Drive Street Performers To Sue St. Louis

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Recognize, though we might, the potential perils posed by mimes, it's hard to believe that they, or any other public performers, require much in the way of regulation to protect their audiences. Unfortunately, St. Louis officials disagree, and mandate auditions and licenses for street performers before they can take their stylings before an audience. That's right, public employees sit in judgment on artists before they're allowed to risk humiliation with their mimery, mummery and pan flute-playing in hopes of a buck or two tossed in a hat. And yes, they have to pay for the privilege: $100 each.

Frm St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

Two performers filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday claiming a St. Louis ordinance unconstitutionally requires an audition and license for street musicians, mimes, jugglers, dancers, magicians and perhaps anyone who wants to play a radio outdoors.

The complaint alleges that the so-called busking ordinance violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments with vague terms that outlaw "a substantial amount of expressive activity."

Tony Rothert, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents the plaintiffs, claimed the law could cover "you singing along to the radio in your car."

Mike Hulsey, the apparatchik in charge of permits (and alleged drummer), claims he initiated auditions, "because I ultimately have to answer the phones, and complaints end up on my desk." Of course, they wouldn't be on his desk if the city didn't try to regulate performers.

Maybe St. Louis just isn't an amusement-friendly town. Street performances were completely illegal until 1997.

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  1. “Ladies and gentlemen, our world is facing an economic and ecological crisis of disastrous proportions. I’m talking of course about…Peruvian flute bands.”

    1. If we don’t come down hard on these clowns, we are going to be up to our *balls* in jugglers!

      1. Hey, hey, hey. Don’t bag on street performers. That’s how Zamfir, master of the skin flute, got his start. And now look at him.

    2. Tonight could possibly be the last episode of Community.

      WHERE IS YOUR GOVERNMENT NOW?

      1. Don’t be so dramatic. They will do enough episodes to get to the syndication minimum in their contracts, which I believe is 88, and they’re only at 83 (84 as of tonight). So hopefully we get one more season.

        Man, I hope I’m right.

        1. Alison Brie ?@alisonbrie
          #WatchCommunityLIVEtonight …because it could be your LAST CHANCE.

          (Also it’s a great episode! Yay!!)

          1. She said “could be”! That’s not “is”!

          2. I’m gonna have to disagree with her parenthetical observation. But I never did “get” this show anyway.

            1. Oh good, I’m glad I’m not the only one.

            2. I found the first few episodes “eh,” but I just watched S1:5-7 and it took a big jump up in quality.

              1. I’m glad you followed my advice. You won’t regret it. It just keeps getting better.

                1. Please tell me we’re still talking about Community.

                  1. I thought we were talking about my suggestion about using a cock ring.

                    1. Yeah, that didn’t work so well. First I bought the wrong size, and then…well, did you know that Liquid Plumber has some significant downsides as a field expedient lube?

                    2. Yeah, yeah, we’ve all been there. You have to learn about it sometime. I suggest blood as a better lubricant.

                    3. Even if it were the right time of the month, your mom is post-menopausal. Where am I going to get some of that?

                    4. Doesn’t your mom store hers in mason jars in the basement? Break out one of those.

                    5. This is now officially the darkest timeline.

                    6. My mom doesn’t have blood! What species do you think I am?

                    7. What species is Neelix? That one.

                      This is now officially the darkest timeline.

                      It is what I strive for, Archduke. I mean Abed.

    3. “You see, much as I enjoyed your wild theories Sergeant, the truth is far less complex. Blower’s fate was simply the result of his being… an appalling actor.”

  2. If only more women were this honest. Usually they can’t even admit it to themselves, much less the rest of the world.

    1. Dammit, I got married too early.

      1. No shit, I was just kicking myself.

    2. American, how does a person come to hate people based solely on their gender or race without taking any other traits into account? Is it just simple mindedness or is there some other factor at play here?

      1. Careless inbreeding and miseducation.

        1. ‘Careless inbreeding…’

          As opposed to..?

          1. Planned? Some people inbred on purpose.

            1. +1 Habsburg

          2. The Bene Gesserit?

  3. Awe, just keep telling yourself that sweetie…

    http://www.nashville.com/blog/…..ercrombie/

    1. This is so powerful. It should be sent to all skinny clothing makers CEO’s

      1. Whatever. The “cool kids” crap never meant anything to me. The couple times I tried dating any of them, I quickly decided she wasn’t worth it. I quickly learned I like wash-and-go country girls.

        1. I don’t know why, but the phrase “Wash-and-go country girls” made me think of a story my first boss told me about the time he took a girl to the beach on a date and she made him stop at a gas station on the way home and get her a bottle of 7up so she could, well, wash and go.

    2. But I’m a good person.

      No. You’re fat.

    3. True, Amy has some self esteem problems, but then the so called cool kids are mostly insufferable and Mike Jeffries personifies that sterotype. I have no idea why she would want to be one of them.

      http://elitedaily.com/humor/th…..-has-said/

      1. This guy really needs to come to pittsburgh and see who wears his clothes. Me and a dude I worked with used to laugh, because the people wearing A+F clothes were way too chubby for their threads. We never could figure out why it seemed to happen with that brand so much, but now I know it’s cause they don’t make larger sizes. It goes to show you that when you try oh-so hard to be cool it usually backfires. My mind will always associate A+F with muffin tops and chubby frat bros.

        1. Why is A&F being isolated?
          I’ve never seen anything larger than a 34 waist for guys at Hollister.

          1. Because their CEO is an attention whore.

          2. I know yer a fan of the pants and all, but what the hell were you doing at Hollister?

            Is this your way of coming out of the closet?

            1. I didn’t say I bought pants there.

              1. Cruising, eh?

                ——–
                Seriously, are you watching the game right now?

                1. Finally going right. Also Ottawa.

                  1. what. a. goal.

                    1. For sure. Hannibal Lecter for the win!

                    2. You rootin’ fer Ottowa?

                    3. against the Habs I am.

                    4. Hell, just seeing PeeKay Soupcan lose makes it worthwhile.

                    5. Wake up you canadian bastard, I have to tell you this information…

                      This is what the Lemieux statue outside of Consol Energy center looks like. Un-fucking-canny.

          3. FYI Hollister is owned by A&F, it is their lower price-point brand.

        2. Also, I had the nickname “Abercrombie and fitch bitch” with some dudes I worked with a long time ago.

          I was working at a place in the Southside of Pittsburgh (party area), and every year they’d have this huge street festival. I was at work and outside smoking with my colleagues wearing a en-meat bloodied apron over an old polo shirt. There was some ignorant, 120# wigger causing trouble outside our restaurant. I told him to move along and he said, “What the fuck are you gonna do about it, abercrombie and fitch, BITCH?.” My fellow employees just lost it and the name stuck for a bit.

          Oh and the dude left when we started laughing.

      2. She doesn’t want to be one of them. She wants to control them.

  4. This is a terrible story but it’s St. Louis.

    Fuck St. Louis, what a shithole. I may be biased because I had some musical gear stolen when I was on tour there, but still fuck St. Louis.

    1. So that’s how all that music equipment suddenly ended up in the pawn shop!

    2. Solution? Stop living in misery… uh… Missouri.

  5. They have a number you can call to complain about street performers?

    Here’s a thought: Unplug the damn phone and lay off the guy who used to answer it. Problem solved.

    1. Better replace it with an answering machine saying soothing things about how they’re going to look into the problem and form a committee and consider funding an answer to the problem, and just have it drone on and on until they get frustrated and hang up, also set it up to purge the messages after recording.

      1. You think you are being facetious, but that is a better idea by far than requiring auditions and licensing “a substantial amount of expressive activity.”.

        1. I’m being a little facetious, but it’s a great idea. It would mollify your average asshole running around screaming “someone should do something about [inane minor annoyance]” and it would cost very little to implement.

      2. A bureaucratic version of Zombo-Com?

  6. The licensing is entirely necessary and not at all a grab for money or power. There is just no way that city employees could abuse their power to make aesthetic judgments. Also, once people get used to licensing, it will become a self-evident truth that without the guiding hand of the benevolent city government, there would be no street entertainment.

    1. “There is just no way that city employees could abuse their power to make aesthetic judgments.”

      I’m very close to approving your license. I think your performance has a lot of artistic merit. There’s just one more thing I need to check.

      Show me your tits, and you’ll be good to go.

  7. Tuccille, I am calling bullshit. You made this story up. There is no way this really happened. I wont go so far as accusing you of lifting this from The Onion.

    This is right up there with Katherine McFate’s pearl clutching with regards to citizens taking up the slack for Detroit’s spectacularly failed government. It just cant be real.

    Can it?

    1. I wish. I really do.

    2. Yes, we in the Gateway City like to keep it real.

      Real fucking stupid.

      1. When are you going to rename your city “Defiance”?

        1. Sadly, Defiance is taken. “Despair”, however, is not. Despair, Misery, has a nice ring to it.

  8. Recognize, though we might, the potential perils posed by mimes, it’s hard to believe that they, or any other public performers, require much in the way of regulation to protect their audiences.

    Yeah, well, like, what if they suck?

    1. Thank you for the best laugh of my day.

    2. There exists a line of progtard reasoning along the lines that popularity is not the only determination on the value of art.
      But it’s so dumb I forgot it.

      1. In university us science majors had to take art appreciation classes to make up for our cultural deficits.

        The music professor insisted to us that the only real music was classical music… specifically the pieces he liked. Everything else, especially pop music, was just noise. Not art at all.

        I didnt even know what to say to the guy.

        1. The music professor insisted to us that the only real music was classical music… specifically the pieces he liked. Everything else, especially pop music, was just noise. Not art at all.

          Your music professor was Ayn Rand?

          1. I admire the woman’s work, but it seems she was kind of a pill.

            1. I’m pretty sure comparing a university professor to Ayn Rand and bringing quotes for proof might actually push them to commit suicide. So, maybe try that next time?

        2. …us science majors…

          What’d ya major in my sober friend?

          1. Chem and Bio

            1. Nice, I’m about to graduate with a chem degree.

              Hopefully this summer.

              1. So you’re the one..

      2. There exists a line of progtard reasoning along the lines that popularity is not the only determination on the value of art.

        David Thompson provides copious examples of this line of thinking and debunks them.

      3. ? Marxism is the thing that’s against the idea of beauty and ars artis gratia. Is that what you meant? Progtards don’t recognize beauty?

    3. Can’t we just put up a bunch of invisible boxes to trap the mimes and protect ourselves from them?

  9. That’s right, public employees sit in judgment on artists before they’re allowed to risk humiliation with their mimery, mummery and pan flute-playing in hopes of a buck or two tossed in a hat. And yes, they have to pay for the privilege: $100 each

    Wait a minute, progressives are the ones demanding the government be more involved in the Arts. Are these consequences truly unintended?

  10. Bear in mind, the city of St. Louis is only a very small, run down area of the St. Louis area. It’s got a few big buildings and the arch and three sports venues, but outside those and the obligatory hipster area by urban liberals (which I guess is mostly the places where these people play), it’s close to being a disaster area.

    Did you see the movie Escape from New York? That was filmed in St. Louis. Things have only gotten worse, 30 years later.

    1. ^This.

      East St. Louis is just as bad as parts of Detroit. Or it was ten years ago.

      1. It still is.

      2. Oh, you exaggerate. East St. Louis where you go to see the strippers, because, you know, women taking their clothes off for money offends the sensibilities and social conscience of St. Louisans.

  11. Does Mike Hulsey have a some sort of mime checklist he goes by? I mean, how can you tell which mime is worthy because as far as I can tell they’re all terrible.

    1. See Mr Whipple’s comment above.

    1. Only a French hockey player would have all of his teeth. The only thing they know how to do right is cook. They do it so well that it makes up for everything else.

  12. HyR now has it’s own artisanal mustard, made by cheeseheads, no less.

  13. I ultimately have to answer the phones, and complaints end up on my desk.

    What a crock of question-begging nonsense this is. Listen, Mike, I’ve some advice for responding to anyone calling your desk to voice such dreck (assuming you’ll have one still when this is over?wishful thinking on my part): ensuring quality performances isn’t your job. And it’s creepy of them to ask.

  14. Steve Stockman Continues to Troll Progressives: Auctions Bushmaster Rifle as Part of His Re-Election Campaign

    His campaign – not his government office, spokesman Donny Ferguson told MailOnline – is offering the unusual prize to entrants who join his online mailing list.
    Twitter erupted late Wednesday after the congressman announced the prize giveaway by tweeting: ‘Want to win a FREE AR-15? Congressman Steve Stockman is giving one away! … Grab this gun before Obama does!

    But one prominent Democratic communicator fired back online, lambasting Stockman for what he suggested was insensitivity.
    ‘Thanks for your feelings for the parents of 20 dead children in CT,’ Democratic National Committee Communications Director Brad Woodhouse tweeted. ‘Just had to pick that gun, huh?’#

    Pro-Stockman partisans rushed to his aid, including one who argued in a tweet that ‘if the school had 1 guard on duty with an AR-15 those people would be alive today.’

    A magnificent troll and a god amongst men.

    1. Yesterday was troll day on the Stockman twitter. He also said:

      Facts that annoy liberals: 68% of Stockman mentions on twitter are positive.

      The man is a troll machine.

    2. I just entered. If I win I will sell the thing and give a couple hundred to his campaign.

  15. Back in my columnist days, Columbus not only licensed astrologers, but had a test they had to pass to get the license. I bought “Astrology for Dummies,” “studied” for a night, passed a true-false test and cast a natal chart for one of the license bureau employees. After I wrote about it, the city ash-canned their astrology license. It’s the only service I ever performed for humanity. (But I’m very proud of the fact that I’m the city’s last licensed astrologer.)

  16. Has Netflix surpassed Porn?

    On a normal weeknight, Netflix (NFLX) accounts for almost a third of all Internet traffic entering North American homes. That’s more than YouTube, Hulu, Amazon.com (AMZN), HBO Go, iTunes, and BitTorrent combined.

    1. No wonder Netflix’s stream on our TV so often stops for “loading” with the damned little spinning dial right in the good parts of a show or movie. Sometimes it does this every 30 seconds or so for awhile, especially during evenings (never during off-hours). Or are we the only ones this happens to?

      1. How fast is your connection?

        1. How fast is your connection?

          Probably a lot better than when Bush was president!

          Amirite, amirite? I’m right, right?

          Burn….

      2. I had been being annoyed by that when streaming on my TiVo Series 3, but the Netflix streaming in my TiVo Premiere has been amazing, almost zero problems. I had originally thought it was my connection or their problem, but maybe the client app is a big factor?

      3. My netflix quality just went to shit.

  17. Jesus-titty-fucking-christ, Scientific American. What happened to science?

    Climate change denial, laissez-faire economics and conspiracy theories: A productive pairing?

    The Science of Guns Proves Arming Untrained Citizens Is a Bad Idea

    See if you can spot all the tricks used in these articles.

    1. I used to have a SciAm subscription.

      Then they turned into Global Warming Monthly. The last straw was when they published the glowing interview with the guy that wanted to stop technological progress because mother earth, or something. Fucking Luddites.

    2. That first one sounds interesting. Will let you know.

      1. See if you can find evidence in that second article showing that obama is an ardent defender of the second amendment.

        1. Are you worried you won’t pass a background check?

          Felon or mentally ill?

          1. I pass them all the time.

            So, no evidence huh?

            1. The second SciAm article doesn’t interest me. It sounds like pap.

              1. Priceless.

                I think I am going to comment on that article that even the dumbest lying troll at H&R thinks his article is pap.

                I love it.

          2. Well, everyone’s a felon, but he’s also a libertarian, so both as far as USG is concerned.

    3. Scientific American turned into toilet paper long ago. How sad.

      1. Fur realz, man.

        When I was a teenager I loved that shit. It used to be written at a much higher level, i.e. assuming a modicum of scientific and mathematical knowledge. Now it’s a dumbed down arm of the luddite progressive set.

    4. I was unaware that the efficacy of laissez-faire economics could be scientifically proven or disproven.

      That seems like something pretty difficult to prove with the scientific method.

      1. They have a science of guns, so why not that too?

    5. I also like this part:

      The Science of Guns Proves Arming Untrained Citizens Is a Bad Idea

      Then I guess people should train themselves, huh?

    6. Yes, SA is referring to “market fundamentalism” when they say laissez-faire.

      Capitalists abhor market fundies – who tend to believe in Creationism and Conspiracy Theories.

      1. market fundamentalism

        I like the new semantic game people play where anything you disagree with is fundamentalism. It’s kind of like calling someone who says something mean a ‘verbal terrorist.’

        1. Well, I will provide an example. Ayn Rand acolyte Alan Greenspan notably said “market always self correct” back during his time at the Fed.

          After the 2008 financial meltdown the mea culpas kept coming out of his mouth. He completely disassociated himself from market fundamentalism.

          1. Nothing says ‘market fundamentalist’ like the chairman of the federal reserve. The guy who purposefully held interest rates low for a decade hardly strikes me as a ‘market fundamentalist’ if that word is to have any meaning.

            1. No, that is Bernanke holding down interest rates.

              1. What? You do realize that Greenspan was the Federal Reserve Chairman from 1987-2006, correct?

                1. No one seriously claims that a 1% Fed funds rate for a couple of years created the mortgage disaster.

                  It was poor risk analysis across the board. From retail NINJA “liar loans” to an insatiable demand for bogus AAA MBS.

                  Now we have a .25% Fed funds rate and credit is tight as a virgin’s lips.

                2. Come on Irish, it’s crazy town.

                  You know this already. It’s like he has a list of things to say that are so fundamentally absurd that you feel the need to correct him/her/it whatever.

                  It’s pointless. He’s from the Department of Not Getting It and Probably Never Will.

                  1. I don’t care! This is for potential lurkers, dammit.

                    So, PB. When Greenspan had the interest rates well below the rates they should have been as indicated by the Taylor Rule, You’re seriously claiming that this had no impact on housing loans and housing costs? So everything we know about the effect of interest rates is a lie just because you claim it is?

                    However, according to Taylor, the rule was not followed in part of the 2000s, possibly leading to the housing bubble.[15][16]

                    Yeah, no one seriously thinks it may have had an impact, except for a Stanford economist who coined a rule of thumb for the nominal interest rates.

                    1. YOUR COMMENT RATING WAS 99.9999916783.

                      NOT BAD.

                    2. It may have been a tiny factor.

                      But loose credit was 100x the factor. Literally, any jackass could get a $300,000 mortgage up until the Financial Meltdown.

                      Now they can’t get a credit line for $500. And Fannie Mae hasn’t changed on loan standards.

                    3. That market was distorted by artificially low interest rates and

                      1) CRA which systematically obliterated underwriting standards.

                      2) Mortgage interest deductibility

                      3) The general inflationary environment post 1971

                      4) Fannie & Freddie

                      5) BASEL 1 which deigned lower risk weighting to MBS as opposed to whole mortgages

                      6) Implicit government sanctioning of the ratings agencies

                      7) Land use regulations that restricted the supply of new housing

                      Even so, the market was self correcting in 2008, and the correction was stopped by the bailouts.

      2. I have no doubt that the masters of the universe abhor a free market system. They might have to actually have to take risks without being rewarded for failure in the form of bailouts. Whether or not they’re considered “capitalists” depends on how far down one is in the fascist/corporatist rabbit hole.

    7. The comments on the gun article are priceless.

      Shermer, whom I once respected before I learned of his progressiveness, regards self defense as barbaric.

      That is really all you have to know before deciding that his ‘study’, which finds what he wants it to find, is as scientific as astrology or homeopathy.

      Science of guns my ass. The one of the worst things that progressives have done it to hijack the greatest tool in the history of mankind and politicize it in order to use it as a means of killing the greatest liberty in the history of mankind. May they all rot in hell.

      1. Social science is the science of purposefully arriving at a preconceived destination. Considering that the DSM has the scientific validity of snake oil and a social scientist recently got away with faking data in peer reviewed journals for close to a decade, I have a difficult time trusting social scientists at this point.

        1. Two names; ( If I wasnt feeling lazy I could make a long list )

          Margaret Mead

          Rigoberta Menchu

          1. I can come up with numerous other examples.

            Sokal Affair

            Diederick Stapel

            Dr. Fox Effect

            The Stapel and Fox examples are the worst. In the Stapel case, he got away for seven years publishing work in peer reviewed journals. Other social scientists looked at studies that supposedly claimed a dirty environment caused racism and saw no reason to doubt those findings.

            In the Dr. Fox effect, an actor gave fake speeches to experts and grad students filled with jargon that didn’t actually mean anything, and the experts reacted overwhelmingly positively to his speeches, even though he was just making stuff up.

            If those two things can occur, I don’t know how you can claim you’re doing real science.

            1. Tate: Damn right, brother man. This chronological wang-dang-doodle could destroy the very matrix of reality.

              Farnsworth: Tate? What do you know about this?

              Tate: Not much, yet. But I am senior lecturer of physics at Globetrotter U. And I’d like to help you investigate.

              Farnsworth: You’re that Bubblegum Tate?

              Tate: Well I sure ain’t his grandma. Now look here, Prof. [He draws some diagrams on a board.] I think we got ourselves an excess of Chronitons in the subatomic interstices.

              Farnsworth: Yes, I see. Something involving that many big words could easily destabilise time itself.

      2. ^This.

        I went through the same thing with Shermer. There is an abundance of statists in the creationist-killer crowd.

        Science works when debunking creationists, but when it comes to most other pet progressive causes it’s all “hey, you just don’t get it man.”

        I do get it man. You’re an ignorant hypocrite.

        1. “hey, you just dont get it man.”

          Yeah. After shermer got called out on his anti-gun bullshit richard dawkins defended him by claiming that shermer was just too brilliant for his critics to understand. That left me speechless.

          You are correct, they debunked creationism, but then engaged in the very same fallacious thinking but dressed it up in progressivism. What a bunch of douches.

          1. It’s amazing that they have such a lack of self awareness, especially for a group so supposedly devoted to scientific inquiry.

            They are the type of people who will cheer loudly when Penn and Teller destroy creationism but then turn the channel when P&T start talking about guns or GMO’s.

            1. btw, I shit you not when I say I didn’t read down further in the thread when I posted that.

              Hilarious.

        2. When it comes to the economy and society, the left rejects evolution for intelligent design.

    8. It’s the thoroughly discredited Lewandowsky paper.

      At this point the cult of CAGW has become so pathetic that I’m starting to feel sorry for laughing at them.

      1. I’m not. Fuck cults.

  18. Hoohainthewhatnow?

    That’s why it’s hilarious to see Republicans try to pull out the various Democratic adulterers to make it “even” somehow. By and large, the Democrats aren’t trying to legally punish everyone else for fucking while reserving the right of hanky-panky for themselves. (There are always exceptions, sadly, but the overall theme of the Democratic party’s policies on sexual rights is, “You kids have fun.”) Liberals toss the word “hypocrite” around a lot regarding these cheatin’ conservatives, because it seems to be the only thing most of the media gives a shit about. But the real issue here is not that conservatives are hypocrites so much as they are trying to reinstall a system where rich straight white guys get to do whatever they want, and everyone else is fucked. Sadly, that’s a conversation people get all bunched up over discussing honestly, so I guess pointing out formal hypocrisy is what we’ve got to go with.

    1. I love to see progressive squirmily attempt to portray themselves differently than the neo-puritans that they really are.

      Colbert’s whole campaign mirrored the republican efforts against clinton in the 90’s, but they want to pretend it’s about “hypocrisy”.

      1. The conservatives who voted for Sanford also wouldn’t be hypocrites because they didn’t vote for Sanford BECAUSE of his infidelity, they voted in spite of it. That’s not hypocrisy because they aren’t endorsing his behavior or engaging in the behavior themselves. All it means is that they preferred him to Colbert-Busch. Preferring one politician to another and voting based on that preference doesn’t mean that you’re endorsing the guy you vote for.

        The people being the hypocrites are the ones freaking out over the victory of evil adulterous Sanford who had no problem with Clinton’s infidelities.

        1. Yup.

          I wonder how many of those finger wagging progressives hated Bush and voted for Obama last election, despite the policy similarities between the two.

  19. When we said we wanted flextime, what we really meant was “more time off that we get paid for”.

    “I think this is the wrong approach to the very critical problem of helping workers balance job responsibilities with family and caregiving,” he said.

    The Obama administration has also promised to veto the bill.

    “This legislation undermines the existing right to hard-earned overtime pay, on which many working families rely to make ends meet, while misrepresenting itself as a workplace flexibility measure that gives power to employees over their own schedules,” the White House said in a statement.

  20. Someone is making some money somewhere, and we have to look at how we can get some of it.

    1. Say it ain’t so, Techno Viking! You need to own that.

      Techno Viking would make a great H&R handle.

  21. Five atheists who ruin it for everyone else

    Many notable atheists believe in some powerfully stupid stuff, thereby eroding the credibility of all atheists

    3 of the 5 are libertarian, or at least semi-libertarian. Of course.

    I do agree with putting Bill Maher in there, though.

    1. Jillette, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and S.E. Cupp? No one even knows who the hell S.E. Cupp is, so saying she ruins anything is ridiculous. Everyone likes Penn Jillette, so I don’t know why he’s on there. As for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, she is putting herself in legitimate personal danger actually going after Islamic fundamentalism in places where Islamic fundamentalists actually live. I know it’s a much more taxing and arduous task to be a fucking Salon writer, but you’d think people would have some actual respect for a person putting herself in harms way.

      1. It’s hilarious how the author can nail Maher so well, and then starts foaming at the mouth when talking about Jillette. You can literally see his hysteria and hatred ramp up as he proceeds through the Jillette section. Oh, and note the classic focusing on rich people and Rand rather than, you know, liberty.

        Good stuff. I think it’s almost time for a martini.

        1. Oh, and note the classic focusing on rich people and Rand rather than, you know, liberty.

          Also note the fact that Jillette was an atheist and a libertarian before he got famous. The guy’s political beliefs have apparently been relatively unchanged since the days he was doing cheap card tricks on street corners.

          I hardly think he believes what he does because he got rich and wants to piss on poor people. This is especially true since Jillette does an enormous amount of work with charities. Clearly he’s evil for wanting to help people himself, instead of relying on the all consuming benevolence of the total state.

    2. Fuck Salon. I especially like Sam Harris.

      Penn Jilette and Bill Maher are similar – more out of the entertainment side of things but both very capable spokesmen for free minds.

      Sam Harris essay – The Problem with Moderates –

      http://www.beliefnet.com/Faith…..ates.aspx#

      1. Penn Jilette and Bill Maher are similar

        tha fuck?

        1. Well, they both call themselves libertarians. Only one of them actually is.

          1. Yes, Jillette scores higher on the LP Purity Test than Maher – I admit.

            But let’s keep the mealy libertarians out. We wouldn’t want to win an election you know.

            1. What beliefs, besides legal marijuana and hookers, does Maher hold that are even remotely libertarian?

              1. Maher favors a partial privatization of Social Security, ending corporate welfare and federal funding of non-profits, and legalization of gambling, prostitution, and marijuana.

                Wikipedia.

                That is more libertarian than 99% of Republicans.

                1. Wikipedia is incorrect. Maher loves his green energy welfare.

                2. Ending corporate welfare in the case of Bill Maher means ending corporate welfare to bad, nasty corporations that do things like produce oil and cars. Good corporations like Solyndra should get as much corporate welfare as possible.

            2. Bill Maher is a statist fuck on everything but drugs.

        2. He’s retarded. But you’re the one talking to him like he’s people.

    3. Who are the three?

      SE Cupp is a conservative.

        1. Hence the “semi-libertarian”. She beats the fuck out of Maher (though that’s not a very high bar) on any test you care to name.

          1. She is a Big Gov Bushpig.

            Sorry, you GOPers can’t wipe that shit off until you actually support a small government candidate.

            1. Her ideal government would be smaller and less intrusive than Maher’s, yet you claim he’s more libertarian?

    4. A comment on Penn:

      I see that you made no attempt to actually find anything about Penn Jillette (not limited to not spelling his name right).

      Jillette is a Randian extremist. His show, “Bullshit”, contains an episode vehemently denying global climate change – yet the show doesn’t interview a single actual scientist.

      FYI, the outside of his house is modeled after a penitentiary, and he owns an actual, used electric chair, which he implied (jokingly or not) that he uses for sexual purposes.

      The article itself contains other factual information about Jillette which also backs this up.

      If he clutches those pearls any harder, he’ll have diamonds. And I don’t remember the Bullshit! that was supposed to debunk global warming, does anyone else?

      1. They had an episode on global warming that, I swear I’m not making this up, ended with them admitting they didn’t know but thought it was a bad idea to stop production that was raising billions of people out of poverty based on the possibility of what would happen in the future. EXTREMISM!

        FYI, the outside of his house is modeled after a penitentiary, and he owns an actual, used electric chair, which he implied (jokingly or not) that he uses for sexual purposes.

        What does this have to do with anything? He also had an episode about how evil the death penalty is. They really are totemists aren’t they? It doesn’t matter what Jillette’s actual opinion on the death penalty is, he owns the deadly totem that haunts our dreams and steals our souls, thus he is the enemy.

        1. Animists. I prefer the term animists. They certainly are when it comes to guns.

        2. I saw the environmental episode, which is the one I think your referencing, and as you say they didn’t seem to take one side or the other. To say they were “vehemently” denying global warming is hyperbole at best, and outright lying at worst.

          I remember because they’re position mirrors mine, to a point.

          Global warming is possible, and maybe even probable, but we must remain vigilant and skeptical towards doomsday prophets regardless of their pedigree. Especially when they are calling for billions of taxpayer dollars, not to mention that the doomsday prophet’s jobs depend on them making said predictions.

          1. There’s also a major difference between rejecting the science and rejecting the scientists’ policy preference. Scientists don’t necessarily have any understanding of what their policies would do to production and human welfare, or the damage it could do economically. Rejecting them on the grounds that their policy preferences might actually be worse for human welfare than global warming will be has nothing to do with ‘science denialism.’

            That’s also assuming that a scientist’s policy preference would actually work at decreasing carbon emissions, which Europe has shown probably isn’t the case. Our emissions have dropped more than Europe’s, even though the Eurotrash signed the much vaunted Kyoto agreements and we didn’t.

            1. Oh, for sure. It seems that people can’t separate government action from belief systems.

              I thing we should help the poor and take care of our environment. I just don’t think putting a gun to someone’s head is the best method for achieving those goals.

              Again, I think global warming is a thing that can happen, but I don’t think the consequences are as dire as predicted, and I don’t think we should be getting the government involved.

              Was watching Stefan Molyneaux on youtube and he was talking about how anytime you try to solve a problem with violence you get the opposite effect as intended. I think that’s true and applies well to global warming.

      2. Their official stance was “we can’t tell, no one really knows”.

    5. So basically this article says:

      “Waaa! It bothers me that not all atheists are Marxists! I want to be an atheist, but I don’t like being connected to non-Marxists by sharing my atheism with them. Waaa! “

  22. Sounds like a solid plan to me dude. Wow.

    http://www.GotDatAnon.tk

    1. Roll that footage!

  23. Although not libertarian, a simple permit and fee (not a “license”) is somewhat reasonably in line with what is typical around the country. The “audition” is totally ridiculous.

    Where’s the Institute for Justice?

  24. I forget what rabbit hole brought me to this article, but I can’t believe I just read something at the New Republic that didn’t make me violently ill.

    Take This Microbrew and Shove It Why do we keep anointing “it” cities?

    t starts with the local brewpub. Always with the goddamn local brewpub, located in some renovated craftsman schoolhouse or 1920s fire station with the locally sourced Czechoslovakian-style hops and the brewmaster with the certification from the Golden Barley Council or whatever governing body oversees alcoholic hipsterdom.

    1. Please. The dude is just a REGION WAR douchebag:

      Chuck Thompson is the author of Better Off Without ‘Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession.

      There’s enough bitterness in that article to fill a bottle of Scrappy’s.

      1. Well, if Epi tells me it’s too bitter, shit man.

        Still, speaking as a Nashvillian, the NYT and others that want to crown us as the latest IT town can go fuck themselves. The best part of Nashville is the fact that these assholes haven’t completely ruined it yet.

        1. I can’t remember if it was Memphis or Nashville that my sister lived in for a while. She liked it.

          My point was that this guy is bitter that other cities besides New York and LA are now considered cool. If that isn’t REGION WAR, I don’t know what is.

          1. It had to have been Nashville. Memphis is a dump.

            You’re right about the REGION WAR stupidity, but I appreciated the “enough with the IT town bullshit” quite a bit.

          2. I don’t know what LA you’re talking about, but Los Angeles has only recently come back from being a “cultural backwater since the end of the hollywood golden era.”

            You may be thinking of San Fran.

            1. Don’t New Yorkers consider LA to be a shallow backwater? They do stand in solidarity with CAs terrible socialist government, though.

    2. Czechoslovakian-style hops

      Chmel je na?e zlato zlato (hops are our gold)! Czechoslovak communist musical about the joys of communal hop picking.

  25. Ryan Nethery’s blog shows some of the worst rooms for rent in New York

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/realest…..z2SrJAVwJY

  26. The Benghazi Ad that never aired.

    I guess they can use it in 2016 – do a little editing on it and put a sleeping Hillary with visions of “What difference, at this point, does it make” dancing in her head.

  27. Sometimes man you jsut have to roll with it.

    http://www.GotDatAnon.tk

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