St. Louis County Police Chief, Drug Warrior, Fails Basic Logic

Some gateway stupidity at the Gateway to the West

Credit: Rusty Blazenhoff / Foter.com / CC BY-NC

Fox News in St. Louis tells the story of Ken, last name withheld, who has been smoking marijuana for decades to fight epileptic seizures. He claims it's very effective. There is a significant amount of science behind the claim. Missouri has not legalized medical marijuana, though, so Ken is breaking the law.

St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch cares not for your science. It's all a plot for filthy hippies to toke up!

"That is just a front for legalizing it and using marijuana recreationally. It`s just a front," Fitch says.  "They always start with medical marijuana an then it goes to what Colorado and Washington did — Okay now we are okay with recreational."

Can't it be both? I mean, can't somebody acknowledge that medical marijuana actually works and believe in legalizing it for recreational use as a completely separate matter? It's not an either/or thing.

Chief Fitch calls marijuana a gateway drug that can lead people to the cemetery.  "One of the things I have learned over the last 22 town hall meetings with folks that lost children as a result of heroin use is every one of them without fail used marijuana first."

You fail basic logic forever, Chief Fitch. Here's your sign.

Comments

[DesigNate]

Science damn you!

[Live Free or Diet]

Gateway? Oh, I thought it was getaway!

[Rich]

"You brown; and shit brown; so ... you shit! Q.E.D."

[John]

"One of the things I have learned over the last 22 town hall meetings with folks that lost children as a result of heroin use is every one of them without fail used marijuana first."

Because correlation always equals causation. Every person who throws themselves off of a building, always goes to the roof first. I guess we need to ban roofs too.

[DesigNate]

And before they ever took their first drag on a blunt or hit from a bong they smoked a motherfucking cigarette and drank some god damn beer.

God I hate drug warriors with every fiber of my being.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

And drank orange juice.

[Almanian!]

And masturbated (well, the males, anyway)

[Ted S.]

Women masturbate too.

[Andrew S.]

Go on...

[Rich]

But if you actually point this out to them, the reaction is along the lines of a huffy "You're not taking me seriously!"

Their "minds" are up.

[Rich]

*made*

Out.

[Almanian!]

"You're not taking me seriously!"

"YOU'RE RIGHT!"

[DesigNate]

Also, the obvious solution to people throwing themselves off of roofs is to set up 8' tall barbed wire fences around all rooftops.

[Aresen]

Wrong.

You ban roofs.

[Bill Dalasio]

"One of the things I have learned over the last 22 town hall meetings with folks that lost children as a result of heroin use is every one of them without fail used marijuana first."

And I bet every one of them had had dairy in the week proceeding their first heroin use. So....

[Bill Dalasio]

Actually, joking aside, I'd say that it is possible that marijuana may be a gateway drug that leads to harder drugs. BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL!. Its illegality means that customers interested in marijuana consumption gain an introduction to the black market that might furnish them with other products. If I'm not mistaken alcohol use is more common as a precursor to hard drug use. Yet, it's not a gateway drug because I can pick it up at the liquor store or supermarket without much likelihood of meeting someone who'll be selling me coke or meth.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

I think it's a gateway drug in the sense that people who are likely to try heroin are also likely to try marijuana and probably try marijuana first. Marijuana doesn't lead to heroin, though it precedes it in a way that dairy and orange juice don't.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

If marijuana doesn't lead to heroin, then it precedes it in exactly the way that dairy and oj do.

MJ just happens to get you high. But unless that high makes you crave the heroin high, they're unrelated things. No one would argue that runner's high or a great orgasm would lead to heroin.

I think it's a gateway drug in the sense that people who are likely to try heroin are also likely to try marijuana and probably try marijuana first.

I do agree with this part, but in this case they only try MJ first because they get access to it first. If somebody offered them heroin at a party, they'd try it even if they'd never had MJ.

[sarcasmic]

If marijuana doesn't lead to heroin, then it precedes it in exactly the way that dairy and oj do.

Dairy and oj are not illegal, so the people who sell it do not introduce their customers to other illegal things.

If somebody offered them heroin at a party, they'd try it even if they'd never had MJ.

Doubful. Marijuana is known to be relatively benign, while that is not the case with heroin.

Marijuana leads to heroin only in that it introduces people to the black market, and because it leads to disrespect for the law since the laws against marijuana are not worthy of respect.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

Dairy and oj are not illegal, so the people who sell it do not introduce their customers to other illegal things.

I'll give you that one as a possibility. What percentage of MJ dealers also deal smack, though? What percentage of MJ users also use smack? Without knowing these things, we can't create a direct correlation.

Doubful. Marijuana is known to be relatively benign, while that is not the case with heroin.

Bear in mind that comment was directed at people that NEM described as "likely to try heroin." I made the assumption that those people would be, erm, likely to try heroin.

[entropy]

No one would argue that runner's high or a great orgasm would lead to heroin.

Are you sure?

[Rich]

No one would argue that ... a great orgasm would lead to heroin.

Well, maybe Courtney Love would.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

If somebody offered them heroin at a party, they'd try it even if they'd never had MJ.

Some would, but I doubt it's a very high percentage.

MJ just happens to get you high. But unless that high makes you crave the heroin high, they're unrelated things.

Yes, that's why it's different than OJ and dairy. They aren't unrelated in that they both fulfill the desire to get high.

No one would argue that runner's high or a great orgasm would lead to heroin.

I don't know about that, but I'm not arguing that pot leads to heroin. In fact, I italicized that so people wouldn't miss it. However, there are personality types that crave adrenaline. Doing crazy stuff on a motorcycle doesn't lead to skydiving, but they both fulfill a need in the way that OJ and dairy don't.

[SIV]

Hanging around people who use heroin leads to trying heroin. Without a social association hardly anyone would try the shit even if it was sold otc at Rite-Aid.

[gaoxiaen]

Alcohol IS a hard drug.

[Almanian!]

*slow clap*

"Every time I clap my hands, a child dies somewhere in the world."

Drunk Glaswegian soccer fan...scratches head...

"Well then stop fokin' CLAPPIN'!"

SCIENCE

[Live Free or Diet]

"Well then stop fokin' CLAPPIN'!"

Someone is injured in a car accident every 14 seconds.
Poor guy! They should keep him away from cars!

[Aresen]

Supposing the "gateway" hypothesis to be true and every one of the 4,251 deaths attributed to heroin in the US (source: http://www.intheknowzone.com/s.....stics.html )
was a direct consequence of the decedent using marijuana, that still does not justify incarceration of millions of people for something that is their own choice.

[Rich]

However, to the drug warriors, this is *perfect* justification.

[Acosmist]

That might be his gateway hypothesis, but I don't think it's the only gateway hypothesis, or even the most common one. A correlation between 0 and 1 is still a correlation.

[crashland]

If they lied to me about MJ being such a horrible drug, maybe their lying about LSD too... Yep, lying about LSD, I wonder if their also lying about heroin. Ah fuck, that time they told the truth.

[Brandon]

Actually, they're lying about heroin too. It's addictive, but it would be much less dangerous if it was pharmaceutical-quality.

[sarcasmic]

I wonder if their also lying about heroin

True Story:

Someone shot me up with heroin once. I didn't ask him to. In fact I asked him not to. But I was really wasted and couldn't muster the energy to fight him off, so he shot me up. Anyway, the high was great. Best ever. Then for the next couple days I wanted to die. Dude who shot me up was right there, waiting for me to give him money to make it go away, but I didn't. I knew that all I could do was postpone the inevitable, so I thanked goodness I had asked for several days off after New Years. Took all my stubbornness say "No."
Though I can really see how people get hooked.

[gaoxiaen]

Strange. When that happened to me I had a good time Christmas shopping in NYC.

[Sevo]

"Chief Fitch calls marijuana a gateway drug that can lead people to the cemetery."

I know when I smoked, I smoked in the cemetery, so there's that.

[entropy]

See? That proves pot leads to satanism, and satanism leads to parties in the cemetery, and parties in the cemetery leads to unwed teenage mothers which is a form of socialism.

[n8]

When weed was still fresh in my catalog of experiences, I found it fun to toke up and walk to the cemetery at night, until I stopped being freaked out by it. At which point, no more adrenaline, no more fun. I was a weird one.

[sarcasmic]

Its illegality means that customers interested in marijuana consumption gain an introduction to the black market that might furnish them with other products.

That is exactly correct. Alcohol retailers don't offer samples of crack, nor will they refer you to someone who might have heroin for sale. Retailers of legal marijuana would be no different.

Legalize the weed, and the single biggest gateway to the black market will slam shut.

[CampingInYourPark]

Do people that sell weed offer samples of crack or refer you to heroin dealers just because they sell in an illegal market? Sorry, but this argument isn't any more logical than the sheriff's.

I own my fucking body and I can do whatever I want with it. End of argument.

[sarcasmic]

moron

[HazelMeade]

Yeah, honestly, I have found that weed dealers generally don't have much contact with heroin dealers.

The weed dealer might know someone who can get you excstasy or mushrooms or acid, but to get to heroin, you kind have to work your way to the meth and coke dealers first.

Still, I think there's a psychological barrier you cross when you start using an illegal substance. Since MJ is illegal, you're already on the wrong side of the law so your inhibition against trying harder stuff is less.

[Scotticus Finch]

Chief "Finch" in paragraph 2; Chief "Fitch" each time after that.

Gotta protect my fake name!

[WomSom]

Man ,BEst Buy can suck my right nut1

http://www.GotDatAnon.tk

[TriXteR Phillips]

I think a lot of this BS is allowed to fly because most folks don't know that breast milk, caffeine, nicotine, wide variety of prescription drugs and alcohol either are or contain a psychoactive substance, which will almost inevitably precede the use of methamphetamine and heroin but are not gateways to the use of methamphetamine and heroin.

[420College]

"One of the things I have learned over the last 22 town hall meetings with folks that lost children as a result of heroin use is every one of them without fail used marijuana first."

Yea and everyone of them watched "The Simpsons" cartoons as a kid...that's your true gateway. How funny, an alcoholic father who spends allot of time at the bar with the town drunk...hahahahaha how funny it's a kid's cartoon. My 6 year old was laughing at an image of Homer drunk in front of the bar. That's your gateway, stop blaming it on a harmless plant. http://420college.net

[Bdubyah]

Two questions I would like to ask chief Fitch. How much funding does your department receive annually for fighting the drug war? How much property and money does your department steal through asset forfeiture in the name of the war on drugs each year? Keep it illegal at all costs to protect the money machine. Right?

[Bdubyah]

Spinning in circles to become dizzy as a toddler is the real gateway to the grave

[Sevo]

Yeah, and as the article mentions, so what?

[Sevo]

Hey, Murcan! Looks like you got called on BS one more time!
Do you ever post anything other than BS?

[Sevo]

American| 5.8.13 @ 6:12PM |#
"So where's the "failed basic logic" in hat sentence?"

Dunno. Did the article say every sentence was going to show failed logic, or did you logic-fail.

[sarcasmic]

That's not the sentence that precedes the comment about failing logic.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

RTFA

Can't it be both? I mean, can't somebody acknowledge that medical marijuana actually works and believe in legalizing it for recreational use as a completely separate matter? It's not an either/or thing.

False dilemma

[Mensan]

Chief Fitch calls marijuana a gateway drug that can lead people to the cemetery. "One of the things I have learned over the last 22 town hall meetings with folks that lost children as a result of heroin use is every one of them without fail used marijuana first."

Logical fallacy: Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[gaoxiaen]

The real gateway drug is coffee.