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Politics

Firearm Instructor Home Night-Raided Over Facebook Photo of His Son Holding a Gun

Brian Doherty | 3.20.2013 11:02 AM

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In this age of gun control panic leading legislators to propose ineffectual and pointless restrictions of certain disfavored weapons, one firearms instructor and his family in New Jersey have learned a valuable lesson: don't offend the sensibilities of your neighbors when it comes to this contentious issue.

From a Fox Radio News report:

New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

"Someone called family services about the photo," said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore. "It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids."

Moore was not arrested or charged.

This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid….

"The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline," spokesperson Kristen Brown said. "We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry."

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state's hunter safety course….

The family's trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe….

With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

"I was told I was being unreasonable and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn't open my safe," Moore wrote on the Delaware Open Carry website. "They told me they were going to get a search warrant. I told them to go ahead."….

The attorney said police eventually left and never returned.

"He has a Fourth Amendment right and he's not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right," he said. "They didn't have a warrant – so see you later."

The government is, as usual, sure it did the right thing, and what are you gonna do about it anyway?

Brown told Fox News that it's "prudent and wise to protect children."

"In many cases we may follow up on something and we don't find any problems and the case is closed," she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

"You can't be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it's false," she said.

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NEXT: Obama Justice Department Graciously Acknowledges that It Shouldn't Snoop Your Emails Without a Warrant

Brian Doherty is a senior editor at Reason and author of Ron Paul's Revolution: The Man and the Movement He Inspired (Broadside Books).

PoliticsNanny StateGunsChildren2nd AmendmentPolice
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  1. John   12 years ago

    I fully realize that no amount of stupidity, especially in a backwards and ignorant place like the Northeast, should ever surprise me. But honestly, who in the hell calls CPS over a picture of a kid with a rifle? How does someone that ignorant feed themselves? And remember, these are the same people who are convinced anyone in flyover country is a ignorant hick.

    1. Zeb   12 years ago

      New Jersey is Mid-Atlantic, Damnit!

      1. John   12 years ago

        It is on the Washington to Boston I 95 corridor, which means it is backward and generally ignorant.

        1. Death Rock and Skull   12 years ago

          Bahstan and Washington are definitely ignorant, along with everything in between.

          1. Zeb   12 years ago

            along with everything in between

            Since the world is a sphere, that means everywhere, I guess. Seems accurate.

            1. fish   12 years ago

              Since the world is a sphere....

              Oblate spheroid......

              No was expects teh Shape Nazi!

        2. Zeb   12 years ago

          Yeah, fair enough. From Mass. south, it's pretty bad. I just don't like getting lumped in with all of those assholes.

    2. MJGreen   12 years ago

      The kid's smiling while holding a rifle. Of course there's no indication of abuse. This was just a variation of SWATing. Clearly that guy is a bad person for letting his kid handle a weapon, and he deserves to be punished.

      1. Professional Target   12 years ago

        Never mind the kid is demonstrating better gun handling than your typical cop does.

        1. Zair   12 years ago

          I liked how clearly his trigger finger was placed correctly.

          1. MisterDamage   12 years ago

            If the cop intends to kill you, his finger is not placed incorrectly. And he _does_ intend to kill you.

  2. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

    ...anybody can make a call to that hotline," spokesperson Kristen Brown said. "We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry."

    I've heard that Kristen Brown may or may not beat her children. I think somebody needs to check into that.

    1. Joe M   12 years ago

      I dare you to call the hotline.

      1. derpules   12 years ago

        I tripple dog dare you to call the hotline!

    2. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

      "You can't be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse ?even if it's false," she said.

      Really? Really? Really! A call to the hotline about Kristen Brown's children is looking more and more like a no-lose proposition!
      Oh, and how many New Jersey legislators have children? We should probably get them checked out, too!
      Man -- I envision a great new hobby!

      1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

        Honestly, if I were the reporter interviewing Brown, I would have said, "So, if I picked up the phone RIGHT NOW and reported you for child abuse, CPS and the cops would have to come to your home and there'd be absolutely no negative repercussions for me?"
        And if she said "yes," I'd start dialing, if only to see the look of horror on her face.

        1. Zeb   12 years ago

          Oh, man, somebody has to do that.

        2. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

          If it's really the law, the New Jersey LP should set up a phone bank to call the hotline and report every New Jersey legislator every day until the law is changed.
          (This is why nobody takes libertarians seriously.)

          1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

            And since I truly believe that being a legislator (or working for DCF) is prima facie evidence of being an unfit parent, I wouldn't even be lying.

          2. Death Rock and Skull   12 years ago

            New Jersey has a libertarian party?

            1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

              It's probably more of a coffee klatch than a party.

            2. Bobarian   12 years ago

              Is it really a party if only one person is there?

              1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                It is when I'm there, buddy.

                1. heller   12 years ago

                  I'm not your buddy, pal.

                  1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                    I'm not your pal, friend.

            3. prolefeed   12 years ago

              21,045 votes for Gary Johnson in 2012 in NJ. Only 0.58% of the voters, though.

          3. Finrod   12 years ago

            Exactly the same thought I had. Let's see how their ill-thought-out law responds to an old-fashioned manual DoS attack. After all, if you can't be arrested for making a false call, there's no incentive to keep all of us from making false calls all day and all night.

        3. EDG reppin' LBC   12 years ago

          Honestly, if I were the reporter interviewing Brown...

          Couldn't you use your journalistic background to afford some cover? If CPS/LE really wanted to jump on you, couldn't you just say you were writing an article about the unique flaws of the law?

          1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

            Hmm. I'm actually on assignment in Trenton in mid-April. True story. (Unfortunately, my corporate masters might look askance at me wandering so far from my designated topic.)

            1. EDG reppin' LBC   12 years ago

              Freelance it.

              1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                My corporate masters claim control over all my for-profit works of non-fiction. True story. (And I'm cool with that. It's a living.)

                1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

                  True story.

                  Your masters own your HyR posts, too!!!

                  1. Shine on, Nikki Diamond   12 years ago

                    Wait, other people are profiting from this? KOCHTOPUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

                  2. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                    See -- that's why I specified "for profit." I post here solely out of love.

                    1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

                      The KOCHTOPUS isn't paying you to post here?!? Sucker!

                    2. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                      But I love the Kochtopus. So it's win-win.

                    3. Proprietist   12 years ago

                      That's not true love. That's Stockholm Syndrome.

                2. Harvard   12 years ago

                  [My corporate masters claim control over all my for-profit works of non-fiction. True story. (And I'm cool with that. It's a living.)

                  So do Dunphy's masters. Join him as another Sonderkommando you spineless fuckstick and stfu about everything forever.

                  1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

                    Er, no?

            2. EDG reppin' LBC   12 years ago

              Also, looking at your blog this morning and saw the "Blast from the Past" post. Ken-yon Rambo, John Cooper, and the phrase, "I tell you what...". That kid quoted started talking like Coach Cooper. I'm surprised he didn't throw in a "dog will hunt".

              Coach Cooper at tOSU: The Lost Decade...

      2. WTF   12 years ago

        "You can't be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse ?even if it's false,"

        What could possibly go wrong?

        1. Professional Target   12 years ago

          Silly me, I thought we had a right to face our accusers.

    3. Alan   12 years ago

      In another forum I recently saw a remark by a CPS worker that about 80% of the abuse that is reported to them comes from people who simply see reporting abuse as a way to attack someone they don't like.

  3. Vince aut Morire   12 years ago

    Some times I really think we need a do over. Starting around maybe 1781.

    1. Acosmist   12 years ago

      Critique of Pure Reason?

  4. generic Brand   12 years ago

    The government is, as usual, sure it did the right thing, and what are you gonna do about it anyway?

    A bit more cumbersome than "Fuck You, That's Why", but maybe gets the point across without the language that would turn off some people.

  5. Joe M   12 years ago

    But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

    "You can't be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse ?even if it's false," she said.

    Gee, there's no way that will cause any problems.

    1. John   12 years ago

      But that is only the half of it. The other half is that you can be criminally liable for not reporting child abuse. There is no penalty for making a false claim and a criminal penalty for not reporting. Perverse incentives, how do they work?

      1. Shine on, Nikki Diamond   12 years ago

        They work really well for creating perverse outcomes.

    2. Rasilio   12 years ago

      Tell me about it, as someone who has twice had people report false allegations of child abuise/neglect because they had an axe to grind this seriously pisses me off.

      The first was my ex wife, She was supposed to have filed the paperwork for our completely uncontested divorce but kept dragging her feet and in the meantime I had moved on and had twins with my now current wife. So I got tired of waiting and went and filed on my own even though it meant driving from Ohio to Georgia to do so (I had also relocated in the meantime). The day after I get back from the divorce hearing DFCS shows up at the door with this wild story of us neglecting our twins to the point of their being near death from nutrition. Fortunately for me my ex had forgotten that I knew her Livejournal password and we showed the social worker the posts she had made with friends to plan out the call.

      The second was a neighbor who was "uncomfortable" with living next door to a non Christian family. This one I couldn't prove unfortunately and so it was a bit more to deal with.

      1. Shine on, Nikki Diamond   12 years ago

        Not that your first story isn't insane, but the second one is insane.

        1. Counterfly   12 years ago

          Seriously, how can ANYONE be non-Christian? Insane.

          1. LTC(ret) John   12 years ago

            Infidel! I keeeel you!

            /Wahabist

      2. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

        Dude, your ex really is a piece of work. You make me feel better about some of the crazies I've dated.

        1. Professional Target   12 years ago

          Nothing makes me feel better about some of the crazies I've dated.

          1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

            Tequila helps. Unless, of course, that's what got you into those relationships in the first place.

      3. generic Brand   12 years ago

        This one I couldn't prove unfortunately and so it was a bit more to deal with.

        Not that I doubt you, but if you couldn't prove it how were you sure it was because you were a non-Christian family?

        1. Rasilio   12 years ago

          Because some of the specific complaints made could have only come from someone in our cul-de-sac which had 6 houses, two of which was vacant at the time.

          We were friends with another leaving only 2 possibilities, however both of those were very close friends, one of whom we pretty much never had any interactions with either good or bad (we never saw the guy) and the other we knew they didn't like us because they refused to allow their kids to play with our kids because we were "devil worshipers"

          They also refused to allow their kids to trick or treat at our house or do door to door fund raising for their various sports teams at our house.

          And of course their oldest kid (a year older than our oldest) was pretty much a first rate bully and troublemaker to boot.

          All that said they never said anything to us and were coldly cordial to us when we me them, it was only their kids telling our kids why they weren't allowed to play together that clued us into what was going on.

          1. SugarFree   12 years ago

            And of course their oldest kid (a year older than our oldest) was pretty much a first rate bully and troublemaker to boot.

            Sounds like a whole family of bullies.

          2. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

            Out of curiosity, and if you don't mind, what religion are you that would get you labeled "devil worshipers" by such an upstanding, tolerant neighbor?

            1. Professional Target   12 years ago

              Hell, I got that label by cutting down trees that were dead or infested with carpenter ant or powder post beetles without getting HOA permission. There's been no indication of any religious faith from them before or since, so I suspect it was meant as general derision.

              Of course, I've been barbecuing a couple goats each summer since then, so maybe they decided to shut up and cringe.

            2. Rasilio   12 years ago

              I'm an athiest and my wife is a NeoPagan. We attended a Unitarian Universalist church where my wife was one of the Sunday School teachers and are bringing our kids up to be open and tolerant of all religions and allowing them to make their own choices as far as what to believe.

              At the time our oldest (9 years old back then) was an a Greek Gods kick and seemed to be firmly convinced that they were the real gods that existed and had an amusing/annoying habit of asking people which god they were referring to whenever they invoked god, which given that we were in Kentucky did not go over so well.

              1. derpules   12 years ago

                That's awesome on multiple levels.

              2. Professional Target   12 years ago

                I love it!
                Though I would have to go Norse, only because of people's preconceptions of the Vikings.
                (Will anyone take me in when my wife divorces me over this?)

                1. Rasilio   12 years ago

                  Oh I would have preferred Norse.

                  If it weren't for the fact that I believe the whole gods business to be a bunch of superstitious mumbo jumbo and the unfortunate ties to white supremacists I could almost see myself becoming a follower of Asatru (the modern name for the Norse religion)

                  1. Alan   12 years ago

                    Gotta agree on the Norse gods. You've got to love a religion that includes a named squirrel.

              3. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

                My wife attended the UU church In Alabama for a while and loved it. She found another in Idaho, but they were pushing a progressive agenda so she bagged it.

      4. John   12 years ago

        The second was a neighbor who was "uncomfortable" with living next door to a non Christian family.

        Words fail.

        1. Professional Target   12 years ago

          Like my goat BBQ parties: Bring a drum and scream Oooooo-walla-walla!

      5. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

        It was probably all your blood sacrifices that freaked them out.

        1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

          The blood sacrifices, orgies, devil worship... take your pick.

          1. John   12 years ago

            Probably just angry they didn't get invited to the parties.

            1. Citizen Nothing   12 years ago

              Satanatarians = libertarians who trade principle for invitations to the cool blood orgies.

              1. John   12 years ago

                That whole orgy thing sounds fun until you see the people who actually go to such things.

                1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

                  Same is true about nude beaches and nudist colonies.

                  I actually got invited to an orgy once. This middle aged guy I worked with pulled out his phone and showed me a naked picture of his girlfriend. Then asked if I wanted to have sex with her. After seeing that picture, I didn't want to have sex with ANYONE.

                  1. Professional Target   12 years ago

                    Got invited to White Tail Park in 1985. I was shocked at how prudish they were.

      6. tarran   12 years ago

        Having gone through a couple of DCF investigations where the alleged abuse had actually occurred, and there was irrefutable evidence to substantiate that it had occurred and where they nonetheless concluded that they were unsubstantiated, I view DCF as being essentially modern versions of Witch-Finders.

        1. John   12 years ago

          Pretty much. You have to remember, these people are overworked and incompetent. Honest people are naive and cooperate with them. People with something to hide don't cooperate and fight them at every turn. So what happens is they go after the honest people because they are easy to pick on and easy to come up with something to justify their jobs. The actual abusers in contrast put up a fight and make things hard. So the CPS workers have neither the time nor the inclination to go after them.

      7. Warty   12 years ago

        The second was a neighbor who was "uncomfortable" with living next door to a non Christian family.

        WTF? Do tell more, please.

        1. John   12 years ago

          I know. I want to know more too. It is killing me. Who the hell were these people? How much fun could there to be had torturing them?

          1. tarran   12 years ago

            I had a disreputable friend in college who had very devout fundamentalist parents, had damn near memorized large swathes of the Bible, and had very light blue eyes that would turn pink when his blood pressure went up.

            He used to torture the Campus Crusaders for Christ by pretending to be Satan walking to and fro on the Earth. It was freaking hysterical, he actually caused one poor girl to turn her back on Christianity by quoting scripture at her to support his argument that God was the evil one and that he was using her and would betray her. Some people were trying to figure out if he really were Satan, so they came up with all sorts of tests - trying to slip holy water into his drink unnoticed etc, and he invariably would 'pass' the tests.

            The reason he got away with it was that he was confronting people who emotionally had latched onto a religion they didn't really understand, and who thus were ill equipped to confront knowledgeable challenges to their religion.

            1. John   12 years ago

              Most campus Christian organizations are just social groups and ways for people to pair up and marry their own kind. Not exactly the types of places for any kind of reasoned discussion sadly.

              1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                No wonder I never fit in when my mother sent me on those stupid Christian summer camps. I thought it was about reasoned discussion, while my peers were there only to hook up.

                1. John   12 years ago

                  You didn't know that sarcasmic? Christian girls won't go all the way, but they love to please if you know what I mean.

                  1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                    You didn't know that sarcasmic?

                    Not at the time, no. I was a good little boy.

              2. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

                Being in Campus Crusade for Christ for a semester is actually what made me stop believing in God. Their literalist approach to the bible was just so ridiculous that I ended up increasingly questioning everything as the semester wore on.

                Unfortunately, religion is like a sweater with a loose string. You start by just questioning that one thing and pretty soon the whole mess is unraveling.

                1. John   12 years ago

                  Unfortunately, religion is like a sweater with a loose string. You start by just questioning that one thing and pretty soon the whole mess is unraveling.

                  Five thousand years of religious scholarship would say otherwise. You seriously don't think that the only two acceptable positions are atheism and strict literalism? If so, I would say the loose string is in your head not in any particular religion.

                  1. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

                    Well, I'd say I'm more agonostic than atheist strictly. But what I meant is, once you start having arguments over why I shouldn't treat the Garden of Eden as a literal account of creation just because it's in the Bible, you very quickly get to wondering if you should really believe that this one guy, unlike every other human that ever lived, came back from the dead, without any evidence whatsoever, just because you read it in the same book.

                    1. John   12 years ago

                      without any evidence whatsoever,

                      There is no direct evidence. There is a lot of indirect evidence, namely that the religion didn't die like every other messianic cult. The Romans knew how to deal with such people. You nail their leader to a cross and tell them the next person who says such a thing is getting the same fate. State religion was a serious issue then because people lived in fear of disorder and religious wars. It is totally inexplicable why Christianity didn't die with Christ and why the original group of believers were able to convince anyone to join them much less die for them.

                      That may not count as evidence to you. But it is one of the most fascinating and unexplainable phenomenons in all of history.

                    2. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                      All it means, John, is that prohibition doesn't work.

                    3. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

                      Even God couldn't get prohibition to work, and he only had two people to keep track of.

                    4. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

                      It is totally inexplicable why Christianity didn't die with Christ and why the original group of believers were able to convince anyone to join them much less die for them.

                      It's no more inexplicable than the fact that Islam didn't die with Mohammed, Mormonism didn't die with Joseph Smith, or Branch Davidianism didn't die with David Koresh.

                      Wiccanism was invented pretty much whole cloth in the 1930s, yet there's thousands of people today convinced its been around for centuries. We just had a story on H&R on how Jedii is becoming a real religion.

                      People will believe all kinds of crazy shit. The sincerity of that belief doesn't make it more true.

                      In 2,000 years, future-John will be on future-HandR telling us how Obi Wan Kenobi couldn't possibly have been made up because there's no way the religion would have survived Emperor Bloomberg's purge if it wasn't real.

                    5. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                      In 2,000 years, future-John will be on future-HandR telling us how Obi Wan Kenobi couldn't possibly have been made up because there's no way the religion would have survived Emperor Bloomberg's purge if it wasn't real.

                      It's only funny because it's true!

                    6. Proprietist   12 years ago

                      "There is a lot of indirect evidence, namely that the religion didn't die like every other messianic cult."

                      Appeal to Posterity? A generally neglected fallacy, but a fallacy nonetheless.

                2. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                  I started to question the whole thing when I asked in response to being told that anyone who has not accepted Jesus into their heart is doomed, "What about the Indians and others who lived for thousands of years but were never given a chance? Did they all go to Hell for no fault of their own?" All I got in response was sputtering.

                  Then this whole notion that an invisible man whose existence is based upon faith always existed and created everything that can be proven to exist ten thousand years ago, but the notion that everything that can be proven to exist always existed is heresy...

                  It all unraveled after that.

                  1. Warty   12 years ago

                    I've always been an atheist, but, I mean, this

                    "What about the Indians and others who lived for thousands of years but were never given a chance? Did they all go to Hell for no fault of their own?"

                    has been covered pretty extensively by plenty of theologians. You just picked pig-ignorant theists to argue with.

                    1. Brett L   12 years ago

                      "What about the Indians and others who lived for thousands of years but were never given a chance? Did they all go to Hell for no fault of their own?"

                      Evangelicals probably don't have to read Dante. First circle of Hell is where I'd love to hang out.

                  2. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                    I do believe that religion serves a useful purpose, in that when a person with power believes in a power greater than themselves, they are more likely exercise self restraint.

                    Look at the atrocities of the 20th century and they have a common thread. I think that is why many fear atheism.

          2. sarcasmic   12 years ago

            Here is a family portrait.

            1. John   12 years ago

              That is unfair to Ned. He was annoying and preachy. But I can't see old Ned calling CPS on someone. Trying to convert them sure. But not that. Not even Ned would do that.

              1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

                That's true, or he would have called them on Homer every episode.

              2. SugarFree   12 years ago

                Ned took Bart, Lisa and Maggie in after Skinner called CPS. And then tried to baptize the children against their--and their parents--will.

                1. Warty   12 years ago

                  "Wow, Dad, you took a baptizing for me!"

                  My brother's wife was uncomfortable with him being a damn dirty atheist, so he consented to her baptizing him in the bathtub with a cup of water. She was mollified and he continued to be an atheist, and all was well.

                  1. Brett L   12 years ago

                    Nice solution.

                  2. fish   12 years ago

                    What...the water didn't immediately flash into steam after coming into contact with pure unrepentant evil?

                    She must have done it wrong!

              3. Stormy Dragon   12 years ago

                Well, there's a reason that the process by which sitcom characters tend to increasingly become exaggerated caricatures of themselves is called Flanderization .

                Ned start out as just a super nice, somewhat na?ve, touchy feeling Christian and slowly morphed into a crazy fundamentalist over the run of the show.

                1. John   12 years ago

                  That makes sense Dragon. I only watched the Simpsons for the first few seasons and then lost interest. So I see Ned Flanders as a super nice touchy feeling type.

                2. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

                  Dig help the writers of Parks & Rec if they Flanderize Ron Swanson! I have been waiting for that to happen for a couple of seasons now, and so far, so good. There have been moments, but generally he's the same character.

                  BTW, if y'all haven't caught last week's Parks & Rec, it was awesomely libertarian. It's probably on Hulu or some shit.

                  1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

                    Here we go. You need to pause Ad Block, though.

      8. Suthenboy   12 years ago

        "...a neighbor who was "uncomfortable" with living next door to a non Christian family."

        Heh. Been there buddy. I had a landlord kick me out once because I was a damn dirty atheist.

        1. LTC(ret) John   12 years ago

          "Get your hands off me, you damned dirty atheists!"

  6. sarcasmic   12 years ago

    With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

    Had he not had his attorney on speaker phone, I'm sure things would have gone another way. Like a good beat down, guns confiscated, child taken away, and jail for fictional charges.

    1. John   12 years ago

      That is a good bet. Man I bet those cops were pissed that he called his attorney. I love the "he is being unreasonable". How dare he not roll over and throw away his rights!!

    2. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

      The police would have shot him dead (along with his wife and kid) because there were guns in the house (somewhere, in a locked safe), and an officer's only duty is to go home at the end of his/her shift.

      1. CatoTheElder   12 years ago

        Officer safety.

    3. neoteny   12 years ago

      & dogs shot.

  7. Chris Mallory   12 years ago

    The wife and kid should still look at a long term vacation out of state. CPS never stops.

    1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

      That's true. Once you're on some enforcement agency's radar, they never leave you alone.

  8. Capt Ace Rimmer   12 years ago

    My girlfriend's 6yr old son killed his first deer with a .243 this past hunting season. I'm so proud of that boy.

    1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

      6? That's young.

      1. Capt Ace Rimmer   12 years ago

        Nah man, this kid can shoot very well. He was nailing one of those small coke cans from 40 or so yards with an open sight .22 last time we went shooting. Down south, we train'em young. He doesn't get to handle his guns without extreme supervision and I double lock all the guns in the house.

        1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

          Took my buddy's 8 year old daughter to the range with us. Went through all the safety stuff over and over. She did well until she pulled the trigger and then promptly forgot she was holding a weapon. Happened over and over, despite instruction/correction.

          She's a smart girl, but just couldn't do it safely. Had to stop.

          I'm sure every kid is different, but SHE was too young.

          I think I was 9 or 10 for my first shooting session.

          1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

            I shot my brother's BB gun when I was about 8 or so. Haven't shot a gun since - the recoil scared the crap outta me. I'm ready to learn to shoot now, though.

      2. Capt Ace Rimmer   12 years ago

        You should see the pics in the hunting magazines down here. 5,6,7 year olds killing deer is pretty normal.

        1. Professional Target   12 years ago

          Not that any of my girls would kill a deer without being damned hungry, but they all were fine rifle shots by 7 years.

    2. Matrix   12 years ago

      so you're saying your girlfriend is letting your son handle dangerous weapons of mass destruction AND teaching him to murder poor innocent animals? REEDUCATION CAMP!

  9. Death Rock and Skull   12 years ago

    I suggest that so-called "social services" departments be included in the purge.

  10. Zeb   12 years ago

    That kid is probably as happy as he ever has been in that photo (as would I if I got that birthday present). What the fuck is wrong with people?

    1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

      I was giddy when I got my first BB gun. I almost peed myself with excitement when I got an actual .22

    2. neoteny   12 years ago

      The kid is suffering from false consciousness.

    3. EDG reppin' LBC   12 years ago

      The problem is that the gun the kid is holding isn't a hunting rifle. It's an assault rifle because it has a barrel shroud! A barrel shroud! You know, that "thing that goes up"!

      1. KDN   12 years ago

        It's not a hunting rifle because he's in NJ, where hunting with a rifle is illegal.

        1. Agammamon   12 years ago

          If he were a cop you could call it a "patrol rifle".

    4. Death Rock and Skull   12 years ago

      The kid should lose the glasses for photos.

      1. Shine on, Nikki Diamond   12 years ago

        No way man, he's only 11, it's adorable.

        1. John   12 years ago

          Yeah. He is a really cute kid. The glasses just give him an earnestness.

      2. Brett L   12 years ago

        Its the throwback Vietnam era BDU pants that I'm impressed with. I thought every pair in existence had been worn flat out by now.

  11. MJGreen   12 years ago

    I'm glad that guy handled it so well. I can't believe cops actually try the "We'll just come back with a warrant" bluff. If you can get a warrant, then get a warrant, idiots. Good for this guy saying as much, and of course they didn't return.

    1. Zeb   12 years ago

      I think there is always a bit of an implication that if they do come back with a warrant, they might not be too careful with their stuff.

      I've never quite understood why it is OK to trash the place when executing a search warrant. There is no reason they can't take their time and not break stuff. They'd probably be even more likely to find what they are looking for if they don't.

      1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

        You assume that the point of the search is to find something.

        1. Zeb   12 years ago

          Well, if it is really a search, then the point is to find something. But in many cases, it's not a search, it's an intimidation tactic disguised as a search.

      2. Whahappan?   12 years ago

        Really, you don't understand why? Let me help. "FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY!"

  12. Brett L   12 years ago

    What's the problem? His finger is outside the trigger guard and the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

    Funny OT story. My roommate works at the FL Capitol and the FLNG was up there lobbying something. Anyhow one of the younger women in his office was going on and on about how she got to hold "a machine gun". And then showed him a picture of her, (hopefully empty) magazine in rifle, finger on the trigger, pointing it at a young corporal who has a "fuck me, what have I done" look on his face. Roommate took this as a teaching moment and explained how she had violated all 4 laws of gun safety. Which is important because he is trying to rope me into coming along on a trip to the range to teach everyone to shoot. I'm even less enthused about this idea now than I was when he first brought it up.

    1. generic Brand   12 years ago

      And then showed him a picture of her, (hopefully empty) magazine in rifle, finger on the trigger, pointing it at a young corporal who has a "fuck me, what have I done" look on his face.

      This fits well with the "guns are dangerous because I'm dangerous with guns" train of though that progressives all have.

    2. John   12 years ago

      What's the problem? His finger is outside the trigger guard and the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

      Which means he already is better trained and more intelligent than the typical cop.

      1. Brett L   12 years ago

        If his daddy has also taught him to treat it like its loaded until he's cleared the chamber, he will never negligently injure or kill anyone with that tool.

    3. Auric Demonocles   12 years ago

      The gun safety violations I saw while near the palaces in London gave me an idea why the Brits might be so terrified of guns: nobody there has any idea how to use them safely. A tour guide even talked to me about how weird it is seeing the police in that area have guns. He was concerned what if one of them 'snapped' because his wife left him that morning or something. My response was that I didn't find them having guns to unnerving, I found them walking around with their guns unholstered, barrels pointing near people's feet, and fingers inside the trigger guards to be the worrying part.

  13. generic Brand   12 years ago

    Question from a gun noob. I want to be educated, so please explain to me why the article says the kid was holding a .22 but the gun looks like the dreaded "assault rifle". .22 is just the diameter of the barrel/bullet and the outside of the gun is basically aesthetic?

    1. generic Brand   12 years ago

      P.S. If you have any good intro reading into gun types and whatnot I would like to have it. My buddy recently bought an AK handgun and it's pretty badass, but every time he comes over and talks guns I'm way out of my element.

      1. Brett L   12 years ago

        You can start here to get a rundown of basic types of guns.

    2. sarcasmic   12 years ago

      Yep. The qualities that make something an "assault rifle" are simply things that make one gun look "scarier" than another.

      1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

        An I think it must also be black.

        1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

          Black guns are undeniably scarier looking than ones with wooden stocks.

          1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

            Racist!

    3. John   12 years ago

      .22 means the diameter of the bullet is .22 inches. Thus a .308 is .308 inches and so forth. But size is only half of the equation. The other half is the powder load behind it. So for example a .44 pistol has a larger round than a .308 rifle but is much less powerful because the powder load in the rifle is so much bigger.

      1. CatoTheElder   12 years ago

        The diameter of the round isn't even half of the equation. The equation is

        e=1/2 mv2

        where m is mass and v is velocity.

        The .308 round weighs 11 grams and travels at about 2700 feet per second.

        The .44 round weighs 16 grams and travels at about 1300 feet per second.

    4. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

      Yeah, .22 is the size of the bullet. .22 is used mostly for small rodents and target shooting.

      The gun itself could look like a pink elephant wearing a tutu for all it matters.

    5. Brett L   12 years ago

      Yep. It looks like he got the S&W MP1522, which is chambered in .22 LR. This is a squirrel popper.

    6. Shine on, Nikki Diamond   12 years ago

      .22 is just the diameter of the barrel/bullet and the outside of the gun is basically aesthetic?

      Ding ding ding!

      1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

        Amazing how gB, being a "gun noob" figured that out when so many politicians and anti gunners can't.

        Look at the big brains on gB, you're a smart motherfucker, gB.

        1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

          Mmm-mmmm. That is a tasty burger.

          1. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

            May I have a drink of your tasty beverage to wash it down?

            1. Agammamon   12 years ago

              Whaa .. what?

              1. Francisco d Anconia   12 years ago

                Say "what" again. Say "what" again. I dare you. I double-dare you, motherfucker. Say "what" one more goddamn time.

              2. itsnotmeitsyou   12 years ago

                Do they speak English in What?

    7. Zeb   12 years ago

      You are correct that .22 refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are lots of semi-auto .22 rifles which look scary and black like that. You can probably get the exact same gun with a wood stock and a smaller magazine.

    8. Bobarian   12 years ago

      The gun in the picture is basically something along the lines of a Ruger 10/22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_10/22
      with cosmetic accoutrements.

      The .22 LR round is one of the smallest and least powerful rounds available for a rifle. It fires rimfire ammo (meaning that the primer is in the rim, rather than the center) which is cheaper and incapable of sustaining the pressures apparent in centerfire rifles.

      .22s are good for 'plinking' and varmit eradication / small game hunting.

      The cosmetics on this gun offer no real functionality, other than a removable magazine (which is n this case is much bigger than it actually needs to be, so that it will look more like an M-16)

  14. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

    I wonder how many of these same people sit down with their families every Christmas and enjoy A Christmas Story.

    1. Zeb   12 years ago

      Maybe it convinced them that putting an eye out is the inevitable consequence of gun ownership.

  15. Auric Demonocles   12 years ago

    Since I'm now considered a child due to Obamacare, I'm going to report Doherty for neglecting to give me alt-text.

  16. Fist of Etiquette   12 years ago

    Legal swatting! I am going to call the kiddie cops on all of my enemies!

    I guaran-damn-tee you every one of those raiding coppers who has kids has firearms in the house and the kids have handled them.

    1. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

      and the kids have handled them

      And probably in nowhere near as safe a manner as the kid in the picture, since the person that is teaching them is a cop.

      1. sarcasmic   12 years ago

        Cops understand that they face no consequences for killing people. What else do they need to know about firearms?

  17. Kaptious Kristen   12 years ago

    I'm taking over-under on whether the NRA actually goes to bat for this guy, even if it's just a written statement/press release. I'm leaning toward "no way in hell", personally. NRA loves them some cops.

  18. The Late P Brooks   12 years ago

    NRA loves them some cops.

    Yes they do.

    1. Zeb   12 years ago

      But they don't love cops arbitrarily checking on people's guns in their homes, so it's a tough call.

      1. Brett L   12 years ago

        When daddy hits mommy, the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and hope he stops.

  19. The Hyperbole   12 years ago

    So now I have to add "Post a picture of a kid with an "assault weapon" on Facebook day" to my list of things to organize. If I were the type of person to organize things, that is. Which I'm not or there would already be "Take a toy gun to school/work day", been wanting to organize that for years.

  20. Killazontherun   12 years ago

    And not a single one of those goons will be punished for this derangement.

    This is why no one takes the Constitution seriously.

    1. Duke   12 years ago

      And why no one takes New Jersey seriously.

  21. R C Dean   12 years ago

    One thing on my to-do list when I get to Tucson is to make contact with a top-notch defense attorney. You don't want to be looking for one of those when you need one, you need to know one who will take your call.

  22. R C Dean   12 years ago

    Here's the bullshit in the CPS lady's statement:

    "Follow-up" can mean a lot of things, and it definitely includes gettign some detail from the complainant and proceeding accordingly. If she had done her fucking job, she would have learned that the source of the complaint was the Facebook photo, "followed up" by looking at it, and closing the damn file.

    I'm quite confident they aren't legally required, and don't, follow up on every phone call with a full-dress police raid. She did that because she's a nannying proggy cunt.

    1. Auric Demonocles   12 years ago

      This was my first thought. Well, second thought. The first was "where's the damn alt-text!"

  23. Duke   12 years ago

    But seriously, GET OFF FACEBOOK!

  24. thiagodaluz7@gmail.com   12 years ago

    It's a little frustrating how uptight and out of hand this is getting. I mean, I don't think its really that great an idea to put pictures of your child with a gun on facebook, but at the same time, a few years ago no one would have cared. The world really has not changed that much in that time. People have just become more paranoid and angsty.

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