FBI Thwarts Dumbass Terrorist – After Helping Him, of Course
Stupid plot is stupid
As reported yesterday, the FBI arrested Quazi Mohammad Rezwanul Ahsan Nafis, 21, of Bangladesh, for attempting to blow up a bomb outside the Federal Reserve building in lower Manhattan. It didn't happen because the bomb was a fake, provided for him by the FBI. (Also, please tell me I wasn't the only libertarian who worried at first it was some nut who had attached himself to the "End the Fed" folks)
Spencer Ackerman at Wired delved through the government's complaint to get the details. Assuming the complaint is the truth, the guy's intentions were legit, but his competence … well, maybe not so much:
The Justice Department alleges that Nafis came to Queens, New York, in January from Bangladesh on a student visa — and quickly began exploring his options for pulling off a terrorist attack. Only Nafis was so inattentive to keeping his operation a secret that he practically stood on a street corner and waved his arms until the FBI and NYPD took notice.
In July, Nafis crossed the radar of an anonymous FBI informant, according to the criminal complaint against him. When they initially spoke on a phone call, Nafis attempted to cover himself with a crude code: He was a fan of "O" (Osama bin Laden), a reader of "I" (Inspire, al-Qaida's English-language webzine for DIY terrorism), and he wanted to pull off "J" (jihad). But the very next day, Nafis was so trusting that he openly discussed on Facebook "Islamic legal rulings" on the permissibility of bombing a country that granted him a student visa. Within a week, was ranting in person to the informant about killing "a high-ranking government official" and boasting of his ties to al-Qaida.
The informant did what informants in these cases do: snitch. He told Nafis that he knew a member of al-Qaida in New York. An excited Nafis attended a meeting with the al-Qaida agent in Central Park on July 24, where he allegedly gushed about wanting to pull off something "very, very very very big, that will shake the whole country, that will make America not one step ahead, change of policy… [but] that will make us one step closer to run[ning] the whole world."
The "member of al-Qaida" was, of course, an FBI agent. Reason readers know full well that the FBI has a stellar reputation for creating terrorist activities to thwart, organizing plans and pushing hapless goons along for the ride before arresting them. Nafis doesn't appear to fall in this category, but we're only getting one side of the story so far.
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Too bad they're not mutually exclusive. I defy you to tell me the difference between Islamist propaganda and some of the diatribes on the fora of Prison Planet, for example, against the ZIONIST BANKSTER JOOZ!!!
A website built for Tulpa.
Please provide a source for antisemitism on prisonplanet. Alex Jones might be crazy, but he doesn't seem to be an antisemite.
I'm not saying Jones is antisemitic, but some of the commenters on his fora certainly are.
I wonder if this explains the heavy K-9 Koppers and National Guard presence in GCT this morning.
It doesn't necessarily explain it, but I'm sure it will justify it.
You've conflated the will to pull off an attack with the ability or access to the materials to do so.
Douchie here had the former, but not the latter until the FBI came in and provided him with everything he needed.
One of these days douchie isn't going to be such a douche and he'll say something to the effect of, "That bomb you gave to me was wired wrong. I fixed it so now that it should work great."
They never hand out REAL explosives - they are all inert or decommissioned. It's pretty easy to make something LOOK like c4 - they do it all the time in movies. Of course it's possible for them to say "hey, your c4 was a dud so I made some ANNM or ANFO and now it works fine"...but if they had the capability to do that the FBI would have never been involved in supplying them.
Fimo
So not only are the FBI inventing terrorists to justify their existence but they're also getting Craft Time on our dime.
Except that one day, someone who actually does know how to build and work a bomb will be one of the guys the FBI deals with, and the public will pay the price. And, of course, the blame will all fall on terrorism.
It isn't only that the FBI gives bombs to people who want to explode them; they often convince people that exploding bombs is a great idea.
They are, no pun intended, playing with fire.
(Also, please tell me I wasn't the only libertarian who worried at first it was some nut who had attached himself to the "End the Fed" folks)
You weren't. I was dreading it to when I heard the news before they said who this guy was.
Also, I will reply to sarcasmic's post about this in the MLs:
Why is it that during all these plots, an FBI agent is the key person involved in the planning the attacks and making the bombs?
Seems like, often, the people arrested are too incompetant to do the actual work, so the FBI does all the work for them and then arrests them before executing the planned attacks.
If someone offers to make a bomb for you, you can be fairly certain that the person is a government agent of some sort.
Yeah, anybody who just up and volunteers to sell/give you explosives or automatic weapons is a .gov stooge.
The extremely generous explanation is that they were hoping that he would attract the attention of someone actually competent and they could trace it back. But someone competent would never associate with a tourist jihadi like this dumbass.
Well, we're not at war in Bangladesh, not even drone strikes. And their terrorists are attacking us "here" instead of there. Coincidence?!
Well, we're not at war in Bangladesh (that we know of), not even drone strikes. And their terrorists are attacking us "here" instead of there. Coincidence?! - fify.
Jesus H Christ. Am I the only one who has figured out that most of the terrorist plots against the US of A lately have been run by the FBI? How freaking long do I have to wait before Obama figures out that if he just sent a cruise missile down the street to FBI HQ he could take out the most dangerous terrorist organization in the world? (Well - *one* of the most dangerous. Sending one straight up and straight back down might accomplish the same goal.)
Based on the lack of acutal damage, casualties or even remote possibilities thereof, I wouldn't say the FBI (and their agent run terror attempts) is all that dangerous.
Unfortunately it's buffalo theory for terrorists.
They're not exactly taking out the cream of the crop ones...
I say that convincing people to blow shit up, and then sending said people to jail because their argument for blowing shit up is persuasive enough is pretty fucking dangerous.
"The informant did what informants in these cases do: snitch."
So Spencer "Attackerman" is part of NO SNITCH now?
Reposting and expanding my standard post:
1)Anyone who tries to sell or give you a bomb in America is cop. If they aren't, ask to verify which states have convicted them of what, because they'll definitely have a rap sheet. This isn't offensive to real criminals as they will understand and appreciate your attempt to establish their bona fides.
2)Bombs are made of stuff that goes "boom" when a charge is applied. bring rolling papers and a patch of matches. Pinch off a tiny bit of the "bomb" material and wrap in a paper with a match sticking head out about 3/4 of an inch. Light match and move back a safe distance. Watch for material to go boom. If it does, you have a real bomb.
No primary charge is going to explode when lit with a match - most initiating charges will not go boom when lit with a match. If you hit C4 with an acetylene torch it will simply burn like wood. You need a blasting cap (also a high explosive) to make C4 go boom.
I'll make you go boom jerk!
Boo... no fuck you, I won't. You can't!
One of these days, when you least expect it I'm going to make you!
Even if I have to hit you with one of those microphones...you know, the ones that they hold over actors when they're making movies. That sometimes dip into the frame...what are those called again?
Oh, they are boo.... not this time, buddy!
Haha, ok, you win. I give up, I have to give you props for typing faster than a sonic bang...
It's "boom" you tard. "Sonic boom"
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
Then, as an exercise, how could one verify that they are indeed being given a real bomb or explosive material? Is actually trying to detonate said bomb the only way to verify that it is indeed a bomb?
I find that difficult to believe.
There are chemical tests to reveal certain explosive compounds. Just like they test you at the airport - only not in the form of an alcohol swab and a little more sophisticated. You could also jam a blasting cap in a sample - that'll verify it for you 🙂
Then, as an exercise, how could one verify that they are indeed being given a real bomb or explosive material? Is actually trying to detonate said bomb the only way to verify that it is indeed a bomb?
I find that difficult to believe.
C-4 doesn't explode when exposed to fire.
One of these days douchie isn't going to be such a douche and he'll say something to the effect of, "That bomb you gave to me was wired wrong. I fixed it so now that it should work great."
I'm pretty sure that "douchie" under your bed won't need any help from the FBI at all.
Exactly.
Anyone who needs this much help does not have the initiative or knowledge to be a threat on their own.
Anyone who has the initiative and knowledge to be a threat on their own is not going to seek help.
These busts are the equivalent of "Bait Car".
But, to be fair most of the suicide bombers in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. are people JUST like him. People who want to be Jihadis but are too stupid and incompetent to do anything themselves. A much smarter, more competent person creates the suicide vest for them, shows them how to use it, tells them where to go, and they go and do it - killing tons of people. He couldn't have been a threat on his own, but if someone who was competent and had a vision were to have found him, he could have been a huge threat.
if someone who was competent and had a vision were to have found him
In this country such people tend to gravitate towards government.
In this country people who THINK they are competent and have visions of some sort gravitate toward the government...
I dunno. Government seems to be pretty effective at killing people and blowing stuff up.
Can't argue with you there.
Effective, maybe. Efficient, definitely not.
Also, just have to say that I am, of course, ideologically opposed to "bait cars" and the like. But I love the show. It's just addictive, the excuses they come up with.
I like Repo Games. I can't get over how stupid some of these people are.
Oh god, I just wiki'd that. It sounds awesome, hadn't heard of it before. It's like Cash Cab, but instead of a free ride and chump change for looking like an idiot, you lose your Escalade. I need to find that on DVD soon.
Ex-fucking-actly.
Quazi Mohammad
Of course, because true depictions of Mohammad are blasphemous.
He sounds like the main character from a middle-eastern Disney movie.
Quasi at the Quackadero
He's the Diet Coke of Mohammad. Just one calorie, not quite Mohammad enough.
Yeah!!!! The FBI has saved us from another FBI bomb plot!!!!
Just a hard working foreigner showing us the joys of diversity and helping our economy.
?
Don't mind him; Mallory is stupid enough to think people on student visas are "immigrants".
I'm a little confused: if the master plan is to have him lead the FBI to "real" terrorists, wouldn't supplying him with all the support he needs pretty much mean that he won't need to, and thus won't, make contact with "real" terrorists?
Real terrorists are dangerous, the FBI does not like to be around them.
Except when they are doing Joint Task Force raids with them.
Officer safety.
What "real" terrorist is going to associate with some asshole who is going to post their plans on Facebook?
That's what they say, but they are really just trying to look like they're actually doing something... make us all scared of the terrorist threat to keep it in our minds that it is real, and the government is diligently protecting us.
In what crazy world is giving someone a fake bomb in order to prove their intent to commit an act of terrorism "help"?
Do you have a brain?
It's not help in the sense that it helps him actually accomplish what he wants to accomplish. It is help in the sense that without their help, he wouldn't have had a bomb (or what he thought was a bomb) or much of a plan.
Giving him a fake bomb cannot be honestly described as "help"
Altering his plan so it results in his arrest cannot honestly be described as "help"
Do you have a brain?
This is The Derider we're talking about.
I think the FBI should be congratulated for doing its job.
Running propaganda ops to keep its budget nice and fat?
If they didn't arrest this guy, and have convincing evidence if his intent to commit terrorism, he'd still be free, with the risk he could actually construct a real weapon and do real damage.
Infiltrating terrorist networks and using that knowledge to thwart their plans is exactly what the FBI should be doing.
the risk he could actually construct a real weapon and do real damage
Not surprisingly you missed the point, which is that he was too stupid and incompetent to actually construct anything on his own. If he was then he would not have required the assistance of the government agents.
I don't expect you to understand that concept since you're a complete moron, but I'm throwing it out anyway.
He was actively seeking allies. Is it your contention that there are no people he could have conceivably met who would have been capable of providing him with explosives that worked?
I'm sure glad the FBI found him first. All the rest was to gather evidence so they could jail him.
Is it your contention that there are no people he could have conceivably met who would have been capable of providing him with explosives that worked?
My contention is that people with that capability would have stayed far away from this dumbass. Loose lips sink ships and all that.
On his own he was a threat to no one but himself, and no one other than a government agent would have given him a hand.
If they didn't arrest this guy, and have convincing evidence if his intent to commit terrorism, he'd still be free,
They couldn't deport him?
Which raises the issue: aren't we doing any screening at all on the people we give visas too?
As it is, just how much money did we spend on this elaborate operation, how much more will we spend on the trial and appeals, and much on top of that to imprison him? Compared to all that money, how much of a threat was he, really?
For student visas from certain countries?
No, that would be profiling, you see.
But for marriage/fiance visas? They do everything short of anally probing you.
Money spent catching would-be terrorists in the US, before they act, is money well spent.
Spend all you want, boys! We'll just print more.
Right, joe?
This whole "capability" argument can be used in conjunction with Fast and Furious. Machine tools, and people capable of running them, are readily available (despite what our President might believe). There is no reason whatsoever to pretend there aren't people in Mexico churning out AKs or whatever damn thing they deem to be fashionable right this minute.
The "traceability" claim* intentionally ignores the possibility that a huge portion of the recovered weapons have no numbers on them anywhere.
* X% of the guns WE CAN TRACE can be traced to an American point of origin!
You're not. That was the first thought that came to mind when I heard the news report on the radio.
Are we sure that "O" means Osama bin Laden and not... someone else?
What's the difference?
None.
Oprah Winfrey?
C-4 doesn't explode when exposed to fire.
What if you hit it with a hammer?
Nope. I recall a Mythbusters where they tried to set off some C4 with fire, gunshots, etc.
As I recall, nada.
If you can swing a hammer faster than the speed of sound, maybe?
Most ammo travels subsonic, doesn't it?
Actually, I think most ammo is supersonic. Rifle ammo is; I know this because they sell special subsonic rounds to use with your silencer.
Your rifle does have a silencer, right?
Yep, and the Mythbusters tried several varieties of gun from 9mm handguns up to and including, IIRC, a 30.06 M1 Garand. I don't think they tried the Barrett, but it's been a while since I saw that episode. The only way they were able to set of the C4 was with a blasting cap.
An EOD guy told me that an electrical charge will set off C4. I have no idea if that's true, but that's what he told me.
Most ammo travels subsonic, doesn't it?
The "crack" that you hear when most guns are shot is the bullet breaking the sound barrier. Subsonic rounds make more of a "pop" sound, like a firecracker, since all you're hearing is the explosion of the gunpowder.
I thought it needed both heat and shock? Also thought the preferred order was: blasting cap/detonator, primary charge (detcord or the like, some form of PETN), secondary charge (the C-4)?
I wonder if you substituted small firecrackers, or an M-80, for Brett's matchheads, whether that would work to test the material?
I don't think that fire crackers detonate.
Gun powder is a low explosive. You need high explosive for detonation.
Supersonic front propagation, baby!
This is just priceless:
Drudge has links that Obama (a) has investments in a Cayman Islands trust, and (b) has a bigger pension than Romney.
I can hardly wait for the resounding silence from the DemOp media and the lefty class warriors.
Team Blue: When our guy does it, it is for reasons that ultimately lead to the greater good. When the other guy does it, well, he's just a greedy capitalist pig.
So you mean Obama is a hypocritical shitstain? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!
Obama (a) has investments in a Cayman Islands trust
That wouldn't go anywhere if you could prove that van der Sloot guy was the bag man.
Infiltrating terrorist networks and using that knowledge to thwart their plans is exactly what the FBI should be doing.
That's so cute.
I don't think one guy on a student visa is a "network".
Also, please tell me I wasn't the only libertarian who worried at first it was some nut who had attached himself to the "End the Fed" folks
No, I just assumed the FBI hatched the plot, the specifics of which likely influenced by SPLC inspired biases that is common amongst their class, and an Islamist fell in line to carry it out.
I just heard (on talk radio) a guy purporting to be a judge claim that (I paraphrase) there are ten thousand ways deals like this can go awry wrt not convicting the perp due to "entrapment". E.g., he has to be repeatedly "allowed" explicit opportunities to back out of the conspiracy (the one *he* initiated) and refuse. The caller practically made it sound like there's no case if the perp doesn't sign an affidavit swearing he'll kill innocent people unless the FBI steps in.
IANAL, so maybe one of our resident legal guys can enlighten me.
the caller was overstating the case.
i worked undercover for 2 yrs. i was VERY aware of the law of entrapment.
i never lost a single case due to entrapment defense. it's really not rocket science. entrapment is enticing a person to commit a crime that they would not have been otherwise disposed to commit.
my undercover work involved about 95% drug cases and 5% weapons cases, fwiw.
Too bad they got the code wrong.
"He was a fan of 'O'"
Well, that obviously means he likes Oral. Don't we all?
"a reader of 'I'"
This means he has a subscription to Playboy: Indonesia
"and he wanted to pull off 'J'"
"J" here means "jack-off".
This was clearly a prostitution sting that the FBI upgraded to a terrorism charge when they found out the guy was Bangladeshi.
Jus' sayin'
Immigration Officer: Good morning. Reason for your visit?
Jihad Tourist: Jihad.
Immigration Officer: Very good; how long do you plan to stay?
Jihad Tourist: I plan to stay in this festering infidel hellhole only as long as it takes to build a terror network and destroy America. Then I will return home to my wives and children.
Immigration Officer: Okay. We'll just call it two weeks. Enjoy your stay. NEXT.
as the article says, "Assuming the complaint is the truth, the guy's intentions were legit, but his competence ? well, maybe not so much:"
( i like their ATFPAPIC approach btw ) 🙂
again, as the article says, his intent isn't in question, merely his competence. well, the law doesn't provide for an "out" for incompetence when it comes to mens rea , it's ALL ABOUT INTENT and actions taken pursuant to that intent.
i see no evidence of entrapment. i see a scumbag terrorist who is being brought to justice.
i have no doubt that if the govt. had inflitrated the original 9/11 terrorists and thwarted their attempts using fakery, etc. that reason et al would be writing articles about the "incompetent" "bumbling" terrorists that the feds had investigated in the "hapless" 9/11 bombing case. it's an easy out. "oh, he is hapless". this fuckhead took acts towards and clearly intended that people die in a terorrist attack. his rights were respected and an investigation ensued and he was caught red handed. fuck him. he can spend the rest of his life in prison, assuming he is found guilty, being "hapless" there. history is full of "hapless' criminals who caused immense damage to persons and property. the fbi is under no obligation to administer a bunch of tests to their criminal targets to determine how squared away they are. and thank god they don't.
I think that what would have been more likely, had the 911 planners been caught beforehand, is that no one would really have noticed because people didn't pay much attention to that sort of thing before 911.
If the evidence holds up in court, I will agree that this guy deserves to be in prison. But it seems to me that it would have been a better use of resources just to deport him once they figured out that he came to the US with bad intentions.
i think that's an argument that can be discussed and reasonable people can come to a conclusion on either side. i just have a problem with the constant push by reason et al to portray everybody who is caught as hapless keystone criminals, to coin a phrase. the reality is that many criminals who have caused our nation grievous harm could also be portrayed in such light. so what?
i think it's a good use of resources to gather evidence against and prosecute those who come to this country on a student visa with plans./intent to blow shit up.
it creates a discincentive for others who come here with such intent.
merely deporting such people gives them a free pass. imo, that's AWFUL policy.
you come here and plan shit like this - we will prosecute you and throw your ass in prison - THAT should be the message that prospective terrorists coming here on a student visa should receive.
incentives matter. if you want to discincentivize something, you punish it. harshly. yuo do not give it a free pass which is what deportation would do
Here is the thing I just don't get about terrorists.
They have to be the dumbest individuals in the history of the world. I mean we'll leave this moron's stupidity in terms of how to carry out a terrorist plot out, lets just look at his stated goals...
"he allegedly gushed about wanting to pull off something "very, very very very big, that will shake the whole country, that will make America not one step ahead, change of policy? [but] that will make us one step closer to run[ning] the whole world.""
So he thinks that killing 1 person or blowing up a building will take down America? Hell to most Americans this would just be must see TV because it is not something that would ever happen to them. So basically he wants to carry out an asymetrical war against the US and he doesn't even bother to go down onto Amazon and pick up a copy of Sun Tzu for reference material on the right way to do this?
See if you want to take down America it would be pathetically easy, you don't blow up the Fed building in New York, you go to Ohio with a sniper rifle and start shooting people at High School Football games, then blow up a mall in Iowa on Black Friday, next you go to St Louis and blow up a bridge during Rush Hour, attack the people in the places they go every day so that every American gets the message "you or your kids could be next" then watch how quickly we get a slate of politicians who would sue for peace into office.
If you read the government's criminal complaint, you can see that the guy tried to go home to Bangladesh - and the FBI talked him out of it!
If that's not entrapment, what is?
The only thing more pathetic than a terrorist wannabe is a homesick terrorist wannabe.
it's not entrapment, assuming it's true
I can barely believe I am writing this, but the derider is right (on this one). Yes, this is what the FBI should be doing. It doesn't sound like entrapment, and it's irrelevant how naive this guy was. (Not "dumb": computer nerds are rarely dumb.)
Something else: don't these busts have a positive effect in general? (I don't mean the "justifying the FBI budget" part.) Don't we want every potential jihadi to suspect that every collaborator might work for the FBI? Maybe they won't take the risk and not try anything. Maybe they'll go for ignorant amateur bombmaking. Either is fine with me.
It can also be a set-up for a classic espionage game: make your opponent think that their ranks are riddled with traitors, even if they're not. A major reason Stalin slaughtered a huge chunk of his officer corps in the purges was because the Germans were feeding him fake information about all the spies that they supposedly had in Soviet ranks. Spreading the meme that "all jihadi bombmakers work for the FBI" makes it a lot harder (if not deadly) for any real jihadi bombmakers.