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Policy

If Saudi Men Want to Live in a World Without Women, Let Them Go F*ck Themselves

Nick Gillespie | 10.1.2012 2:54 PM

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What's missing from this image in an IKEA catalog for Saudi Arabia?

The woman who was in the version sent elsewhere:

This was posted at Quartz by Zachary M. Stewart, who also links to this statement from IKEA published by the Wall Street Journal:

"As a producer of the catalog, we regret the current situation," Ylva Magnusson, spokeswoman for IKEA Group, which runs 298 of 337 IKEA stores world-wide, said. "We should have reacted and realized that excluding women from the Saudi Arabian version of the catalog is in conflict with the IKEA Group values."

IKEA is a great store and while they are right to be castigated for contravening their stated values, the real culprits here are, I think, is our good friends the Sauds. The human rights record of the kingdom is terrible at best.

Years ago in a terrific interview with Reason, Swedish libertarian Johan Norberg talked about how one effect of cultural and economic globalization is that it changes how repressed populations see themselves. Take a look:

Globalization has also helped extend rights to women that had long been confined to men. These include being able to go into business, get an education, inherit money, and so on. One reason for this is simple economics. In a globalized, competitive economy, women are a potential resource. They are able to have new ideas, to produce, and to work. If you discriminate against women -- or anyone else -- you lose opportunities as a society or as an employer. Take the discussion that's going on now in Saudi Arabia about whether women should be allowed to drive, which they can't legally do now. While it's unlikely the situation there will change anytime soon, it's progress just to have the discussion. People are saying it's extremely costly to hire drivers, often from other countries, to drive women around. You can see how basic economics, basic capitalism, creates the incentive to give women more rights.

A second reason is that all the goods, ideas, and people that cross borders under globalization allow people to see more alternatives, to see other ways of living. When women and other oppressed groups in poor countries see how their counterparts in Western societies are treated, they begin to have ideas about how they want to be treated. Globalization is a great influence because people everywhere get all sorts of new ideas. They say, "Wow, things can be very different than I'm used to."

So keep doing business with Saudi Arabia, but in such a way that their women and other oppressed groups get crazy ideas in their heads. Who knows, maybe the Saudi Arabian ladies on Muslima.com will pull a shopping variation on Lysistrata: Don't even think about it until you've put together that goddamn SVEIO chest of drawers, honey.

Hat tip: Michelle Field's Twitter feed.

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NEXT: Seth MacFarlane Hosting 2013 Oscars

Nick Gillespie is an editor at large at Reason and host of The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie.

PolicyWorldCultureCivil LibertiesEconomicsSaudi ArabiaSwedenWomenFeminismIslamFree TradeGlobalization
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  1. albo   13 years ago

    If the Arab world wants to ignore the potential ideas and investments and leadership of 50 percent of its population, let 'em. It's there choice.

    But then they gotta stop bitching when the world passes them by and they remain backwaters of poverty and ignorance whose only possessions are hydrocarbons.

    1. Caleb Turberville   13 years ago

      Jebediah Springfield: People, our search is over! On this site we shall build a new town where we can worship freely, govern justly, and grow vast fields of hemp for making rope and blankets.

      Shelbyville Manhattan: Yes! And marry our cousins.

      Jebediah Springfield: I was- wha... what are you talking about, Shelbyville? Why would we want to marry our cousins?

      Shelbyville Manhattan: Because they're so attractive. I... I thought that was the whole point of this journey.

      Jebediah Springfield: Absolutely not!

      Shelbyville Manhattan: I tell you, I won't live in a town that robs men of the right to marry their cousins!

    2. Hugh Akston   13 years ago

      HaHaHaHa, no they don't. All they have to do is riot in the streets and threaten to blow shit up. Then the civilized world will bend over backwards to placate them so we can all go about our business.

      1. John   13 years ago

        No NO. They only riot because the evil Americans bomb them all of the time.

        1. MP   13 years ago

          No. They riot because our women drive...if you can call it driving.

          1. Drake   13 years ago

            I was in Saudi Arabia in 90-91. Even the Kuwaiti women who made it out ahead of the Iraqi Army couldn't stand the place.

            Right before the Gulf War started, Kuwaiti women organized a protest in which they all drove through Riyadh. The Saudis just ignored it (and didn't report it).

            They did strongly encourage us to get the war on so they could get all the whores out of their Holy Land.

    3. hotsy totsy   13 years ago

      And they will never ever stop bitching, in fact, they will blame it on the "Capitalist West" for stealing it from them.

  2. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

    Ikea did the same thing with that ad featuring two gay gentlemen, as I recall, and yet reason didn't get all pissy about that. Or maybe they did, I don't remember.

    Ikea should do whatever is in the best interest of their income statement. If it moves furniture in a particular country then values be damned.

    1. The Immaculate Trouser   13 years ago

      Yes, exactly. Who declared IKEA the ombudsmen of liberal values, anyways?

      Their shareholders sure didn't.

    2. Brett L   13 years ago

      Well, (A) Fuck Swedish Wal-Mart and (B)... Nope. The first choice covers everything I have to say about them.

    3. The Derider   13 years ago

      +1 for consistency.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        Irony, thy name is joe.

        1. Warty   13 years ago

          What's ironic about it? joe is consistently short and stupid, after all.

    4. Mike M.   13 years ago

      Ikea should do whatever is in the best interest of their income statement. If it moves furniture in a particular country then values be damned.

      I agree, but I could do without the insincere faux apology from spokeswoman Ylva Magnusson.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

        Well, that message is probably aimed at helping move merchandise in places offended by the censorship. It's quite a balancing act, putting values out there to potential customers.

  3. jorgeborges   13 years ago

    I don't usually comment, but "Ikea is a great store"?????????

    1. Hugh Akston   13 years ago

      Yeah, it actually is. If you disagree then you'd better post something more convincing than question marks.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        Like assembly instructions for question marks.

        1. Tman   13 years ago

          Here's a Classic-

          "How to Assemble and Ikea Computer Desk"

          http://www.jaypinkerton.com/ikea.php

  4. sarcasmic   13 years ago

    Victoria's Secret in Saudi Arabia.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01......html?_r=0

  5. BarryD   13 years ago

    Maybe they can have a big island and live there with the American feminist extremists who want pretty much the same thing.

    1. The Derider   13 years ago

      Please link to an American feminist who wants to import the burka.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        Oh joe, you must hate women most of all, because they don't really care for incredibly short midgets like you. How often did you beat your wife?

        1. The Immaculate Trouser   13 years ago

          He only tried the one time. Something about his wife laughing at the juxtaposition of a whip and Joe's childlike physique turned him off to the idea soon afterwards.

        2. SugarFree   13 years ago

          Before or after she left him?

      2. Anomalous   13 years ago

        Well, she doesn't go that far, but Naomi Wolf doesn't exactly condemn it either.

        http://www.smh.com.au/news/opi.....ntentSwap1

  6. Episiarch   13 years ago

    I seriously don't get a society that wants to keep women hidden away. Are all the men closeted or something? Am I mistaking the power of misogyny?

    1. Fist of Etiquette   13 years ago

      It's a slippery slope from letting the ladies show some skin in public to this.

    2. Hugh Akston   13 years ago

      I imagine they'd all be a lot less pissed off if they could just ogle some boobies once in a while.

      1. Episiarch   13 years ago

        Look, I was once at sea for days on a sailing trip in Maine. Nothing was more painful that having no women around. When we took a break in Bar Harbor I almost lost my shit because there were chicks around. Honestly I have no idea how Navy schmucks can stand it.

        1. Warty   13 years ago

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Do you still have your little sailor suit? Did you wear your little bell bottoms on the poop deck? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

          1. Episiarch   13 years ago

            DON'T TALK SHIT ABOUT POOP DECKS

            It was a Friendship sloop with an extended mast and a top jib and for'sil, so no.

            1. JW   13 years ago

              It was a Friendship sloop

              And now you know why they're called that.

          2. Hugh Akston   13 years ago

            Epi was the cabin boy, so he didn't bother with the bell bottoms on account of all the seamen on his poop deck.

            1. Warty   13 years ago

              The big hairy sailors made him swab the poop deck all day long.

              1. Episiarch   13 years ago

                We listened to the Village People the whole time. Does that mean something?

          3. nicole   13 years ago

            One of you fools had better make an "able seaman" joke before I have to leave. I'd do it, but it wouldn't be my place as a woman.

            1. SugarFree   13 years ago

              Say what you like, nicole. My Saudi browser just Photoshops out your comments anyway...

            2. Warty   13 years ago

              Well, nicole, how much seaman are you able to swallow?

              1. nicole   13 years ago

                SF wins. Good try, Warty, but too obvious.

                1. Warty   13 years ago

                  Good?!?!?!

                  1. Episiarch   13 years ago

                    Way to be completely unsubtle you tool. I'm offended for her! She can clearly swallow a lot of seamen, you jackass!

        2. nicole   13 years ago

          See--you almost lost your shit. Because of the womenz. Doh.

          1. Episiarch   13 years ago

            It's all your fault, nicole. See?

            1. nicole   13 years ago

              I do. It's awesome being so powerful.

          2. $park?   13 years ago

            Typical wimmen doesn't even know how to spell teh wimmenz.

            1. Loki   13 years ago

              I thought it was teh wymenz? Did it get changed again?

        3. sarcasmic   13 years ago

          I thought you were more of the Ogunquit type.

          1. Episiarch   13 years ago

            You would know, dude.

            1. sarcasmic   13 years ago

              Would I?

        4. $park?   13 years ago

          Honestly I have no idea how Navy schmucks can stand it.

          They're probably married.

          1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

            Porn. Virtual pornbots. Haptic interfaces with social media applications (Batebook). Etc.

            1. sarcasmic   13 years ago

              They get to bang hookers in the break room. Er, I mean they can play Grand Theft Auto.

              1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                That is a rich naval tradition. At least in port.

                And for captains, well, there's always Mr. Prostitute.

                1. $park?   13 years ago

                  It's a crocodile sir.

                  1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

                    What's it for?

    3. sarcasmic   13 years ago

      Remember that if a woman gets raped, it's her fault. She must have brought it upon herself.

      So women must keep themselves completely covered or else they are inviting rape.

      It's not so much that the men hate women, it's that men are not expected to control themselves.

      They basically admit to being animals, but put the blame on the women.

      1. Christina   13 years ago

        ^^This. The common Islamist phrase regarding the necessity of headscarves and burquas is: "you wouldn't want to eat a piece of unwrapped candy, would you?" You know because seeing a woman's hair/face means she's a lint-covered Werther's.

        1. John   13 years ago

          And of course it is completely fucked up and has no basis in the religion. All the Koran says is that women should dress modestly. And indeed, throughout most of history Muslim women have not totally covered themselves. In the 1960s the practice almost died out in most countries.

        2. Warty   13 years ago

          Well, we know you are, at least.

          1. Christina   13 years ago

            Wait, I referenced Werther's because I ate a few this afternoon. Does that make me a cannibal?

            1. Brett L   13 years ago

              Or a lesbian.

        3. Cavpitalist   13 years ago

          Probably it's the facehair, not the hair/face, that turns them off.

    4. nicole   13 years ago

      Am I mistaking the power of misogyny?

      Yes.

    5. $park?   13 years ago

      The men in that society haven't evolved much above animal instinct. The sight of a woman's face is enough to drive them into a frenzy of rape. And their laws protect them so why not? At this point it's just about in the women's best interest to keep covered up. This way they don't have to worry about being raped for dressing like a slut and then being executed for having been raped.

      1. sarcasmic   13 years ago

        "Your honor, she clenched her exposed hand into a fist, and the temptation was too great. So I raped her."

        "Execute her!"

      2. Scruffy Nerfherder   13 years ago

        Sounds familiar, ah yes, mandingos...

    6. John   13 years ago

      The men are totally fucked up and angry. Unsurprisingly Saudi men consume more porn per capita than any other group.

      Their men are not closeted. But depriving them of any interaction with women before marriage fucks them up in all kinds of ways.

      1. albo   13 years ago

        And a lot of fucking of each other.

        1. John   13 years ago

          I think that is more the women. There is rumored to be a mad lesbian culture within Saudi. The men all jerk off to porn or travel abroad and hire hookers.

          1. Hneckone   13 years ago

            I hate to ruin your fantasy John but mad lesbian culture is probably not realistic considering that women there are castrated (female genital mutilation is common in Saudi Arabia).

            No wonder they don't want women to drive.

        2. Loki   13 years ago

          well, Islam does encourage pedophilia with pre-pubescant boys, so there's that. If they can't fuck teh wymenz they have to get their jollies off somehow, and I'm sure masturbation gets a little old after a while.

      2. Scruffy Nerfherder   13 years ago

        Now I know what Saudis and Mormons have in common

      3. yonemoto   13 years ago

        Don't be so sure, John:

        http://www.theatlantic.com/mag.....et/305774/

    7. albo   13 years ago

      Women have icky cooties.

    8. yonemoto   13 years ago

      Are all the men closeted or something?

      In short, yes.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/mag.....et/305774/

  7. o3   13 years ago

    id hit that muslima babe even tho her coochie rotates sideways 5 times a day or something

    1. Spoonman.   13 years ago

      "or something"? Have you become self-aware of your own incoherence?

      1. $park?   13 years ago

        Self-aware? Don't be absurd.

      2. Loki   13 years ago

        "o3" isn't a real peron. It's posts are actually caused by a cat randomly walking across someone's keyboard somewhere. That's why they make no sense, are chocked full of spelling and grammar errors and rarely rise above the level of sophistication of "I can haz cheezburgerz".

  8. Ayn Random Variation   13 years ago

    Religion of Peace!

    1. sarcasmic   13 years ago

      You spelled "Piece" wrong.

  9. TigTang   13 years ago

    Sounds like a very good plan to me dude. Wow.

    http://www.PrivateData.tk

  10. Paul.   13 years ago

    "As a producer of the catalog, we regret the current situation," Ylva Magnusson, spokeswoman for IKEA Group, which runs 298 of 337 IKEA stores world-wide, said. "We should have reacted and realized that excluding women from the Saudi Arabian version of the catalog is in conflict with the IKEA Group values."

    So wait, the U.S. Administration goes off the rails apologizing to the world for a film short video clip on youtube, and now Ikea apologizes for kowtowing to the Muslim world?

    I haz a confuze.

    1. $park?   13 years ago

      I'm sure at some point soon the US will patiently explain to Ikea "Ur doin' it wrong."

    2. R C Dean   13 years ago

      When IKEA has bigger balls than the President, you have a problem.

      1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

        Can I vote for IKEA's American division?

        1. $park?   13 years ago

          Sure but what are you going to do with all the spare people that you couldn't find a place for?

          1. Pro Libertate   13 years ago

            Save them for the next election.

    3. Hugh Akston   13 years ago

      The drone strikes on IKEA will commence presently.

  11. Fluffy   13 years ago

    That doesn't look like Photoshop to me. It looks like a second take of the photograph.

    How could they photoshop her out like that? They'd need a photo of what had originally been behind her.

    1. John   13 years ago

      The models were already paid and gone. So I imagine they had a photo of the empty set from the original shot and cut and pasted from that.

      1. Citizen Nothing   13 years ago

        I didn't realize Fluffy was Amish.

        1. $park?   13 years ago

          Warning! NSFW in Muslim countries!

        2. Fluffy   13 years ago

          Sorry, I'm just used to photoshopping stuff into pictures.

          To take stuff out you have to match the background, and that's not exactly "blue sky" or "featureless field" back there.

          John's probably right, they must have had shots of just the set with no models at all to use.

      2. SugarFree   13 years ago

        Digital photography is too cheap to fool with all that. They probably took 100 photos that day to test group or just choose from. There are probably the same poses with one kid and not the other and mom and no dad or just the kids. Or just the empty room.

        1. John   13 years ago

          That is what I am saying. I bet they had shots of the empty room. That would make erasing the woman quite easy. If you notice the guy's head is in exactly the same spot in both photos. That says it is the same photo. If it were a different one, there would at least some difference in positioning and there is not. So they must have photo shopped from the original and a picture of the empty room taken from the same position.

      3. $park?   13 years ago

        If you look closely at the two pictures you can see that they are different, and not just from a lack of the woman.

        1. John   13 years ago

          Yeah. But the people seem to be in the same position. So maybe they photo-shopped the man and the kids into another picture of the set.

          1. $park?   13 years ago

            There's some strangeness with the mirror that makes me think they did do some level of erasing.

        2. wef   13 years ago

          toilet paper roll dispenser

          culture shock

    2. R C Dean   13 years ago

      You've got it all wrong.

      They didn't photoshop her out of the first picture.

      They 'shopped her into the second picture.

      1. R C Dean   13 years ago

        Seriously, the modelette and her reflection don't match up. Geez.

  12. The Derider   13 years ago

    I'm surprised at the lack of "companies should maximize profits and shareholder value" responses.

    1. Episiarch   13 years ago

      I'm surprised at how stupid you are, joe. Oh wait, no I'm not.

    2. Warty   13 years ago

      Shut the fuck up, joe, you annoying little midget. No one gives a shit about your sad excused for jokes.

  13. Loki   13 years ago

    Fuck Saudi Arabia.

  14. JW   13 years ago

    Look, I don't why everyone keeps dancing around the fact that she's a witch.

    1. John   13 years ago

      She turned me into a Newt!

      1. Delroy   13 years ago

        *stares at John, who clearly doesn't look like a newt*

  15. Anonymous Coward   13 years ago

    Immodest whore! Look at her, tempting young men with her plaid cotton pajamas! She's a fount of sin! Stone her!

    That's about how it goes, right?

  16. Zeb   13 years ago

    I notice a picture of a dinosaur on the wall. What's the Islamic line on whether or not Dinosaurs ever really existed? Do they generally subscribe to young earth creationism?

    1. John   13 years ago

      Yes they do, at least the fundamentalist variety do.

  17. ChrisO   13 years ago

    Who knows, maybe the Saudi Arabian ladies on Muslima.com will pull a shopping variation on Lysistrata: Don't even think about it until you've put together that goddamn SVEIO chest of drawers, honey.

    Probably not. I don't believe the concept of marital rape exists in Saudi Arabia.

  18. Sta|ker   13 years ago

    This recent trend of gun regulation and globalization on reason is kind of disturbing. All of this should be in the hands of the people and the market, not a globalized government simply because it's, "not right!". Who are we to tell others what to do? Well, besides the fact we do it now, but we shouldn't

    I thought Libertarians were supposed to be the "party of the free", but if this is the direction it's heading, I'll be reconsidering party choices.

    1. Paul.   13 years ago

      Cancel your subscription?

    2. pmains   13 years ago

      Well, that's a novel interpretation of this article.

  19. Death Rock and Skull   13 years ago

    The real problem with Ikea, is shit like that vanity. Looking at that picture is like resurrecting all the tacky clutter ideas from the 70s and 80s with a newer look. Those stupid kids are going to splash water all over the place, and that thing is going to accumulate all the crud among those funky drawer designs and the nice shiny red finish will be scaled over with lime. The clear towel hangers are going to have mildew build up behind them in like a year.

  20. JeremyR   13 years ago

    I don't care what people in other countries do, but what I do care about is it coming here.

    I live in St. Louis. Almost every time I go shopping on Manchester road (which has a lot of muslims and Indians) I see women in Burkhas. Not just at the World Market, but in freaking Wal-mart.

    And it's spreading. I've seen them out in Eureka now,

    1. Joshua   13 years ago

      I bet we will corrupt 80% of them within a generation.

      They will be assimilated.

      1. darius404   13 years ago

        Yeah, probably. If someone wants to wear concealing clothes, I say go for it. The place I grew up had German Baptists, who still wear those old-time dresses and suits with hats, and all the men have beards. As long as they don't bother anyone, no one cares. There are people on my campus that cover themselves pretty well, though no girls that I've seen here cover their faces. Again, no one really cares.

  21. JeremyR   13 years ago

    Also, bear in mind, Saudi Arabia didn't outlaw slavery until 1960. So they are about 100 years behind the rest of the world...

    1. Drake   13 years ago

      I've been there - felt more like a thousand.

  22. muslims4liberty   13 years ago

    "Globalization has also helped extend rights to women that had long been confined to men. These include being able to go into business, get an education, inherit money, and so on"

    Islam guaranteed these rights to women 1400 years ago, long before "western freedoms" and "globalization" existed.

    1. perlhaqr   13 years ago

      Too bad they now have the culture they did 1500 years ago.

  23. Toom Tabard   13 years ago

    You're fighting against the tide. The expression over here is "women are for procreation; boys are for recreation." Really twisted.

  24. ailsa lu   13 years ago

    Women's rights should be maintenance, and equality between men and women is a trend.

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