Communism

Occupy Oakland and the Communist Thing, or How You Learn to Love Free Markets

Communists say the darnedest things

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anti-capitalist capitalist

Last week's New York Times Magazine had an in depth piece about the evolution and historical context of the Occupy protests in Oakland, the "Capital of Anti-Capitalism." Jonathan Mahler interviewed a local Occupy Oakland leader, the commercially successful rapper Boots Riley, who gives us this choice quote:

"I'm not afraid to call myself a Communist," the rapper and activist Boots Riley told me one morning last spring in the kitchen of his weather-beaten yellow Victorian house in Oakland's Lower Bottoms section. "I think some people call themselves everything but, because they don't want to associate themselves with the failures and mistakes that other folks who have called themselves Communists have made. But Christians don't stop calling themselves Christians just because some other Christians made some mistakes."

Communism, it's just like Christianity! Except for the part where you transform the State into a dictatorship of the proletariat. Theocrats in this country, of course, are rightly dismissed. The CEO of Chick-Fil-A can't even give an interview about positions he's held for decades without mass hysteria and naked attempts at intimidation by local leaders. Perhaps its time to treat Marxists the same way?

 In case it wasn't clear Riley is anti-capitalist, from the article again:

Riley's politics are extreme. He doesn't want to see capitalism reformed; he wants to see it toppled. "We need a system that's not based on profit, but that's based on helping people, that's based on some sort of mutual control of resources," he says.

didn't build that

Mahler follows Riley to an auction of foreclosed properties, where one investor is shouted down as a "scum bag." No reference in the entire article, however, as to how Riley might be using the capital he's earned as a recording artist to acquire resources for the purposes of "helping people."

How might a system that's based on helping people look? Who knows, maybe a system where people who have stuff are matched up to people who need stuff at a mutually beneficial price point? Though Boots Riley managed to carve a career out for himself in the recording business, he fails to see, or is willfully ignorant of, the market forces that helped him succeed. He can make music and make a living making music because there are people out there willing to buy the music; thus his productive efforts are matched to a need or desire, and nothing is wasted. I could record fart noises, but probably wouldn't have as much success. And we're all the better for it: the free market regulates society's desires and needs  in a way no central planner could, because participants in a free market, in aggregate, have more information than any central planner could, and cannot marshal force the way government can to distort the market in destructive ways.

The entire profile is worth a read; described as an "insurrectionist movement" by the author, Occupy Oakland's primary enemy is local government even as the emulation of government through the desire to confiscate property and use violence is one of its primary goals. Oakland's story is full of contradictions.

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  1. an in depth piece about the evolution and historical context of the Occupy protests in Oakland

    Oh, who gives a fuck, really?

    1. About one of the vanguard sects of the most important movements in the history of civilization?

      We all care, RC. We all do.

      1. The Tea Party movement is more important!

        1. No one cares what a few rich racists think.

          1. I can think of a few million Koch-obsessed progs who can’t stop caring what rich racists think.

        2. Bagger! And Sarah Palin! Oh, and the Koch brothers!!!

          1. And Eliminationist Rhetoric to you!!

            Also, fried chicken.

            1. even in Canada.

  2. He’s not a Communist, he’s a stupidunist.

    1. Same thing!

  3. Ye gods. The shit don’t work, people! Find a new system.

    1. Never. It will always be the same system: the absolute denial of human nature and the ridiculous utopianism of collectivism and wishful thinking that humans were robots and not, well, humans. Also, the unfettered arrogance of those who think it’ll work if just they were in charge.

      See, that’s also human nature.

      1. Rand had a good line about them looking longingly up to an anthill for inspiration on organizing society.

      2. It’s control these idiots are after. They want nothing but violence.

      3. Seriously, we need more planets. One for statists, one for nonstatists, one for hedonists without a political system, with togas, and, well, hedonism.

        1. Let us cavort like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean.

          1. Right. That’s the third planet, which I hereby deem Orgirama.

          2. Like the tri-Lambs or the Alpha Betas?

          3. The anti-state planet is Libertune, and the statist planet is Uranus.

            1. I’m sorry, PL, but astronomers renamed Uranus to end that stupid joke once and for all.

              It’s now called Urrectum.

              1. The new statist planet will be called Uranus. Pronounced “Your anus.”

                1. LOL. That is priceless. I can’t wait to tell my statist friends that they will soon be banished to your anus.

                  I think we should try to mine all of the material from the kuiper belt and build ourselves a dyson ring. A statist free dyson ring, of course.

                  1. That sounds great! I can only spot one tiny flaw with your plan.

                    The Sol system is already populated with planets, and gravitational perturbations from those planets will destabilize our Dyson ring. Dammit!

                2. Or we could name it ‘your stuff’, since that is what they want.

        2. I am willing to mingle with the hedonists, but the statists need to be isolated from everyone else because a parasite always finds a way to attack a new host.

          1. Yes, I envision free trade between Libertune and Orgirama. Total trade barriers for Uranus, though. In fact, did you ever see the title sequence for Space: 1999?

            1. No, I haven’t seen it.

              But, yeah, because the only export that the Uranusians would have is dependency. And who would they blame all of their problems on with no capitalists around? We would have to set up surveilance cams to watch them kill each other off in their raging bewilderment.

              1. Well, basically, the Moon is blasted out of orbit at better than solar system escape velocity. I suggest we accelerate the newly deemed Uranus to a similar velocity.

    2. I think modern day American Commies are like modern day American Anarchists (ANCAPs here, excepted) in that they don’t really advocate for the system they claim to be adherents to so much as angle for more power in the system we have.

      1. To paraphrase Chomsky, “We have to expand government before we eliminate it.”

  4. Occupy Oakland’s primary enemy is local government even as the emulation of government through the desire to confiscate property and use violence is one of its primary goals. Oakland’s story is full of contradictions.

    There is nothing contradictory about it at all. They want to own the government not destroy it.

    1. Hey if they’re going to go after local governments more power to them.

      They’re too stupid to be effective, so at least they can be distractive.

      1. They aren’t any more stupid than the people who are in power right now.

        Ever walked the halls of a government building?

        Government bureaucracies are a jobs program for morons.

        1. Hey, some of us are just lazy, not morons.

      2. They are stupid or just incredibly naive. The fact that they expect the government, which is the creator and mutual beneficiary of cronyism(which the occutards mistake for capitlaism), to save them from the evil corporations which they are in bed with, is all the proof that is needed of that fact.

        1. Well, yeah.

          The only reason there is cronyism is because the government doesn’t have enough power to control the corporations that control it.
          Give more power to the right people and they will wrest control of government from the corporations that control it and instead control the corporations.
          Then they can go about the business of tearing down the rich and giving back to the poor from which all the wealth was stolen.

          What could possibly go wrong?

  5. You know why Lenin ended up creating a totalitarian state that terrorized the populace?

    Because when he and his fellow Bolshies took over they outlawed trade. They genuinely tried to implement communism. And it failed. Miserably. People persisted in engaging in market transactions. The harder the bolshies tried to make people stop trading and engaging in commerce, the more dislocated the economy became, and the more terror they had to use to get things to function at all. Finally Lenin gave up and announced the NEP and the utopian vision was dead.

    The excuse that I’ve heard from all my commie acquaintences since I was a teenager was that the Russians never really implemented communism but were conventional dictators who used the ideology as an opiate to keep the masses quiet.

    And that’s bullshit. The bolshies tried really hard. It didn’t work because people aren’t motivated to act by the prospect of making the lazy bastard next door better off.

    1. Of course it is bullshit. The communists were nothing if not committed and knowledgeable about Marxism. This is true of vanguard in every communist country. Pol Pot was educated in Paris. People like Pot and Lenin forgot more about Marxism during a bowel movement than your typical campus Marxist will know in a life time.

      The clowns we have today are not even Marxist. They are too stupid and uninformed for that. It is not an ideology as much as an incoherent fashion statement.

      1. So they’re the commie analog of Bill Maher libertarians? 😉

        1. They’re the commie analog of PB, more like.

    2. But maybe the reason they failed be because the only way they knew to get people to stop trading is through force? Authoritarianism was all they knew.

      By contrast, the new progressive style of communism will use the classic “guilt trip” method to enforce compliance.

      1. Guilt tripping doesn’t go very far. It’s good for shutting down debate, and that’s about it. That’s why force always comes into play so quickly.

        1. I have worked long and hard at suppressing any notion of guilt, precisely to make myself immune to guilt trips.
          As a bonus I have unleashed my inner callous asshole.

          1. And here I thought you were the very paragon of patience and understanding.

          2. guilt? what’s that?

            I said that to an uber-baptist once. She never looked at me the same.

      2. Don’t undestimate them. If the progressives get complete control of the government(they are damn close to it as we speak), they will use a lot more than a guilt trip to enforce their insanity. You will be getting your door broken down in the middle of the night for not properly following the new government mandated diet guidelines.

        1. Well, what happens is that guilt tripping only goes so far. After the fifth time you are guilt tripped into feeding and clothing your layabout next door neighbor’s five children, you start squirreling a few dollars away so that you own kids can have bicycles.

          And then what happens? Pretty soon, you’re a counter-revolutionary, a hoarder, and a speculator.

          And what will the progo-communists do at that point, when the guilt tripping and “educating” stops working, they’ll just be force to conclude you are an evil greedy capitalist pig who deserves to be put up against the wall and shot. After all your failure to willingly obey they obviously correct dictates of their conscience clearly indicates that you are unredeemably evil.

          1. Not going along with the program makes you a saboteur and you must be fought.

      3. They used plenty of guilt tripping too. A lot of people in Russia, especially the first generation born into communism really believed they were the vanguard of paradise on earth. Read Solzhenitsyn or Darkness at Noon sometime. We forget that people actually believed in it. And in the 1920s and 30s many Russians trusted their government and believed the people going to the camps really were enemies of the people.

        The Show Trials were a shock to most of the communist world because they honestly believed that no communist government could do such a thing. We think no one believed now because we know how it all turned out. But people at the time totally believed.

        1. We forget that people actually believed in it.

          I’m not sure if it’s forgetting, but rather looking back and just finding it so incredulous that people COULD believe such a thing.

          Like the ancient Greeks. Did they really take all that pantheon shit seriously? (indications are that, yes, they did. jeez)

          1. Of course they did. But we are no better. Think about it. How is some hocus pocus psychological explanation for something like the Aurora shootings any more compelling or convincing than demonic possession?

          2. UFOs. How many people are serious in their belief in flying saucers and big-eyed grays? How is that much different from centaurs and dryads?

            1. Or Crystals or Scientology.

              1. CRYSTALS EXIST JOHN!!!1

            2. A few months ago, one of my co-workers came into my office, looked behind him and around, then lowered his voice and said ‘hey, I think I saw a UFO!’ He was serious. Obviously he saw something. Probably a drone, lol.

            3. How many people are serious in their belief in flying saucers and big-eyed grays? How is that much different from centaurs and dryads?

              What I love to do is compare mythology. This weekend the subject of Sampson came up. I informed my son, much to my wife’s chagrin, that Sampson was just the Jewish Hercules. It was fun watching her squirm.

              Greek mythology=absurd stupidity. Jewish mythology= truth from God.

              1. Greek mythology=absurd stupidity. Jewish mythology= truth from God.

                The winners write history the True Mythology.

        2. They used plenty of guilt tripping too

          The guilt tripping is for the weak minded sheep that will go along willingly anyway. The militarized goon squads are for the rest of us.

          1. You have to have true believers or you don’t have goon squads. The goons don’t come down from space. The people who murdered Kulacs for hiding a single chicken honestly believed they were ushering in a new world order. After the killing is over everyone acts like they didn’t believe. Like the Nazis or the Communists came from outer space. That is just bullshit rationalizing. They believed in that crap.

            1. But they were misled by their authoritarian impulses and history. If they had spread the path only through truth and love, it would have worked so much better.

              Except for the basterds who are immune to peace and love. They’ll be othered into submission.

              And if that fails, shot.

    3. But.. but.. but… it would have worked if they had done what Trotsky wanted! Didn’t you read 1984?

      1. I meant Animal Farm, of course. DOH!

      2. Trotsky wanted to murder right people Fatty.

  6. What if he said, “I’m not afraid to call myself a Fascist?”

  7. “Animal Farm, Animal Farm,
    Never through me shalt thou come to harm!”

    1. For some reason I read this line to the tune of Particle Man by TMBG.

  8. …that’s based on some sort of mutual control of resources

    Funny how they always mention resources, as if 90% of our economy was farming extraction industries. “Value-added” is a totally foreign concept to these idiots.

    1. What about Human Resources?

      1. Too honest for them to state it in such a manner.

        1. They occasionally are honest enough to state it.

          What do you think the Berlin wall was built to control?

      2. “It’s PEOPLE! Human Resources is PEOPLE!!!”

  9. I’m sure he’s down with file-sharing of his IP, right? Being a Commie who opposes private property?

    1. or at the very least, mutual control of the products of his “commercial success”, right?

      1. Hey everybody, PARTY AT BOOT’S HOUSE!

      2. Hey everybody, PARTY AT BOOT’S HOUSE!

    1. I was hoping for boobs displayed over a hammer and sickle flag.

      1. I googled “Communist Boobs” and this was one of the Page 1 results.

        This shows me there is hope for mankind on the intertubes.

        1. Excellent!

          /Mr Burns voice

  10. “We need a system that’s not based on profit, but that’s based on helping people, that’s based on some sort of mutual control of resources,” he says.

    He objects to a small number of profit minded people controlling resources because their self interest is in maintaining and increasing their wealth, so he wants to replace them with a small number of politically connected people whose self interest is in maintaining and increasing their power.

    That like totally makes sense.

    If you’re a moron.

  11. I love Boots Riley as an artist (I even briefly had him as a client in a legal matter). But I think he’s a perfect example of somebody who’s smart enough to see that something’s wrong but then completely misses the mark on who’s really to blame and how we fix it. In many ways, he’s sort of the rap analog of Jello Biafra.

    1. Spontaneous order and self regulating free markets are counter-intuitive.

      I mean, how can goods get to where they are needed without some Top Men directing where they should go?

      Who is In Charge?

      Who gives order? Who do you go to for permission?

      The alternative is CHAOS!

      SOMALIA!11!1!ONE!!1ELEVENTEEN!11!!!ROADZ!111!!!!!!

      1. Some people can’t handle having that much responsibility, so they give it way to some faceless authority. Individualism means you own your mistakes and your triumphs, but that’s a high price to pay for most.

        1. That’s a fairly succinct way to put it.

        2. Communism is a high price to pay for being “stylish”….

          /Callahan-ish

        3. Freedom once meant liberty, as in you are free to act without asking permission or taking orders as long as you stay within the bounds of commonly understood law.

          Now freedom means being taken care of and free from responsibility as long as you ask permission and follow orders.

          Sad.

    2. This. Mostly because all of these type of people see the government as the ultimate solution to everything. Never mind that it is the government who caused the problems that they are upset about in the first place. All our elected folk have to do to shift blame form themselves, apparently is to say something like ‘hey, look over there, fat cats getting tax breaks!’.

      1. What’s the Iron Law – a problem with a partially free system will always be blamed on the free portion of that system?

    3. Jello used to be more reasonable. As a medical professional my diagnosis is a severe case of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

  12. Saw a bumper sticker Friday.

    John Galt 2012

    1. I came here to make a reference to Atlas. Yours will do.

      1. Why do Greek mythological characters and creatures have such badass names?

        1. Probably for the same reason you wouldn’t play a video game about a rogue cop shooting up the mob called Bob Smith.

          1. Merl McCormick.

    2. Who’s that?

    3. Awesome! I don’t see many political bumper stickers here in commie Murland, but seems like every time I do see one, it’s a damn Obama sticker. It’s depressing. I have seen a couple Ron Paul stickers, but I have never seen a Romney sticker.

      1. I saw my first Romney sign yesterday in Pennsylvania.

        I can’t imagine who would put up a Romney sign, but I also don’t get the people with pictures of Obama in their windows, so what do I know…

        1. Shit, in Philadelphia we have plenty of people wearing T-Shirt with O’s face on it.

          1. Are you in the City of Philadelphia itself? I only go there to work, and when possible I work from home so they don’t get any of my income.

        2. I also don’t get the people with pictures of Obama in their windows

          That’s so that the brown shirts will know who’s houses not to burn down on kristallnacht. Kind of like the Star of Davids only in reverse.

          Same thing with the T-shirts with O’s shit eating grin plastered on them.

  13. Let’s all take a moment to ponder the pants-shitting that would go on if a libertarian group called itself an “insurrectionist movement”.

    1. Libertarians couldn’t be insurrectionists.

      The Left take to the streets because they want something. They’re motivated to get stuff from government or from hardware stores without metal doors.

      It’s hard to have a libertarian protest. Signs: “We don’t want anything from you” “Let’s leave each other alone” and “Everybody chill.” Not very motivating.

      1. Which is exactly why libertarians will never have power.

        People seek power to maintain and expand it, not to dismantle it.

        “Political tags ? such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth ? are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”
        -Heinlein’s Lazarus Long

  14. Has communism come to grips with the obsolesces of Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist philosophy yet? Have communists grounded their doctrine in something a bit more based in cold, hard reality?

    1. Yes. Now they’re grounded in hate. The primo shit, too.

    2. Modern communists almost all come from some variety of severely distorted economy, like academia or the arts. They’ve never had to engage the free-market and therefore fear it… or they have engaged it and know they wouldn’t last in it for very long.

      1. Can we make a deal? Like they can have one hundred billion/year in subsidies, but they otherwise go the fuck away and shut the hell up?

        1. The Long Orbit by Mick Farren is a interesting exploration of this idea. People who can’t function in society are sterilized and paid a guaranteed minimum income to live in preserves.

          1. And then it turns out that their village is actually in a park near Philadelphia, right? WHAT A TWIST

            1. I thought that was called Manayunk.

            2. It turns out Darth Vader was dead all long and it was a dream.

              TWIST!

              1. Way to spoil the ending to Star Wars Episode IX. Jerk.

          2. I reading the original DNA Cowboys trilogy right now. Mick Farren doesn’t come up much in conversation.

            1. Have you ever read any of his horror/fantasy stuff? I’ve only read his SF.

        2. God, no. It’s only by subsidizing these fools so long through public funding of the arts and academia that they have managed to survive at all.

          Give them more money and they’ll just spread their bullshit wider.

      2. “You’ve never been out of college! You don’t know what it’s like out there! I’ve worked in the private sector. They expect results.”

        1. In several ways, Ghostbusters is quite anti-government. Starting with dickless here.

          1. “It’s true sir, this man has no dick.”

    3. It sort of collapses into dust in cold, hard reality, even when they change the name to progressivism.

    4. No. They haven’t. They just pretend 1989 never happened.

      1. Communism is the cranky toddler of ideologies. It wants that cookie, and it wants its now, and no amount of telling it that the cookie was eaten yesterday will dissuade it.

        Reality is a bourgoise construct, after all.

        1. Reality was invented by the bourgeoisie as an opiate for the masses.

        2. It will always appeal to a certain breed of wannabe intellectual angry that the world doesn’t appreciate his genius. All of the worst communists were crackpot wanna be deep thinkers.

        3. “Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”
          -Bastiat

    5. Communism (at least of the academically rigorous sort) was never grounded in reality; lots of flawed underlying premises. Once you got past those flawed assumptions there was some very rigorous thought behind it, but academic Communism (esp. after Marx) was more like the organized theology of an inventive, but discredited and provably wrong, religion than a pursuit of truth.

      Of course, now there isn’t even rigor being applied to the nonsense; since the collapse of the USSR it’s been more of a poorly-defined impulse than anything else.

      1. They are really worse and even more dangerous now. As the saying goes “say what you want about National Socialism, but at least it is an ethos”.

        It has degenerated from murderous fantasy ideology to outright impulse driven insanity. People who call themselves “Marxists” will walk in support of radical Islamists. Anyone who has read and understood more than one page of Marx has to know how insane that is.

        Poorly defined impulse is an excellent way of describing it.

        1. Revenge fantasy.

    6. I’m quite tolerant for the asinine ideologies (*cough* religious beliefs) of others, but I hate communists/socialists with the blaze of a million suns.

      “Look, pal, I don’t want to be part of the system, the rigged game, or your delusions of making man better. I just want to be left the fuck alone, slaver.”

  15. Pardon my racism, but I thought that was a pic of Eddie Griffin, and was totally gonna give Ed a solid for the “Undercover Brother” reference.,,,

    WHOOPS!!

    I is blushing….

  16. I’d buy a CD of fart sounds for $5. Price point established. Make with the poots!

    1. I need a dozen hard-boiled eggs, a pound of under-cooked lima beans and two gallons of gas-station coffee.

      1. He wants a fart, not a shitfountain.

        1. Right? Reason already has the milk-enema porn guy.

    2. I’d buy a CD of fart sounds for $5. Price point established. Make with the poots!

      You could start with this gem by Descendents.

      And finish off with this one.

      Also, as Descendents matured and evolved into ALL… well they never matured and there are farts on ALL albums as well.

      1. God bless the free market

  17. He doesn’t want to see capitalism reformed; he wants to see it toppled. “We need a system that’s not based on profit, but that’s based on helping people, that’s based on some sort of mutual control of resources,” he says.

    He wants to help people? But I thought he said he was a Communist.

    1. Haven’t you learned that results don’t matter?
      Only intentions matter.
      He wants to help people by sharing the wealth. Good intentions.
      The fact that the end result of forced sharing is poverty does not matter because it is not the intent.

      1. This is true. It is bad what Boosh did to the economy. But when Obama further destroys it, it is good because he means well.

  18. It doesn’t do any good to try to understand these people according to labels like “communist” or “Marxist.” Those words have lost their meaning within the mishmash of the left. It’s best to just use their rhetoric to classify them.

    For example, “We need a system that’s not based on profit, but that’s based on helping people, that’s based on some sort of mutual control of resources” roughly translates to “Let’s turn the world into a public urinal.”

  19. Oakland’s Marxism’s story is full of contradictions.

    FIFY

  20. The way they saved Marx from reality is by rebranding it as a postmodern humanism, which means it doesn’t have to make sense. It just has to be a wish or a sentiment.

    As soon as Sartre got away with declaring himself a Marxist even though the basic principles of existentialism contradict every last element of Marxism, the jig was up. Nothing any academic had to say on the subject of Marx needed to make sense any longer.

    1. They all embraced multiculturalism and cultural relativism. Marx was about the least multi cultural or cultural relativist philosopher in history.

      The Immaculate Trouser pegged it above. Marxism is just poorly defined impulse now.

      1. Chris Hitchens is just about the only modern-day academic I can think of on the left who honestly engaged Marx.

        Tellingly, Hitch was also about as pro-Anglo and pro-Western Civ as you can get.

      2. Ultimately, Marx denies the importance or value of culture and indeed of all human thought.

        It’s called dialectical materialism for a reason.

  21. capitalism is depleting the world’s FINITE resources. libertarianism doesn’t have an answer for that, that i’ve been able to find yet.

    http://www.storyofstuff.org/mo…..-of-stuff/

    1. Anything that uses resources will deplete them. Only capitalism has shown the ability to adapt to changing resource availability.

    2. The real problem with that argument is that most of the resources in question are only resources in the first place because capitalism made them resources.

      Oil was a blight on the landscape in the few places in the world where it naturally rises to the surface, before industrial capitalism came up with a use for it.

      Tomorrow capitalism will make some other currently useless substance into something valuable, and everyone will scream that capitalism is “wasting” it.

      1. How much resources are there in all of the rocks floating around in the solar system? Finite maybe, but scarce… only limited by technology.

        We will get the resources we need, as we need them, if we want to. Or we could just sit down and whine about how everything is so unfair, and drone on about the impending doom, like the progressives.

      2. Fluffy| 8.6.12 @ 4:20PM |#

        The real problem with that argument is that most of the resources in question are only resources in the first place because capitalism made them resources.

        I personally think we should go back to a whale-oil based society just to fuck off the envirotards even harder. hey…its renewable! We can breed whales in pens, release them in the wild…genetically modified whales, with high-octane spermacetti… plus, it’ll create JOBZ!!

        1. I am for anything that makes the enviro-wackos cry like little girls.

          Fuck a you whaaales! And fuck a you Dolpiiiiiiiiins!

        2. Maybe we could skip the whole “hunting and butchering” part of whale-energy-extraction process… and invent “alternative + sustainable” forms of Whale-Generated energy.

          Seriously. We could hook turbines to the side of *every* whale, and they’d produce limitless energy as they propelled themselves through the water… clearly the main problem is capture and transmission… hmm. Well, revise the turbine idea = how about tying them to giant underwater rotating turbine shaft? sorta like the thing Conan was strapped to in The Barbarian…only, you know, whales.

          We will find a way to make Whales work for us.

    3. You can find the solution higher up in this very thead. First, we banish the statists to their new home planet, Uranus.

    4. This is strong with retard.

      In your emphatic capitalization of the term “Finite”, you overlook that if in fact any resources are ‘finite’ in any real sense you imply, then NO political/ecomomic form of organization has any affect whatsoever on the ultimate result of resource depletion. Its all gonna go eventually, per your definition.

      If by contrast you assume this as a given, then the system which provides the most efficient allocation of resources, and the most powerful engine for the development of technologies making the most of those resource, is free market capitalism.

      Or is your assumption that there could exist some socialized environmental utopia…if only it could be *forced upon everyone*?

      I have yet to meet an Occutard that had enough cranial capacity to actually follow their own logic to its obvious conclusions

      1. Gilmore, finite resources is somewhat of an ambiguous term anyway. What does that mean? How do we even know that resources are finite? Have we found the end of the universe yet?

        But we shouldn’t be exploring space and taking the resources anyway, according to most statists. They have all kinds of excuses for that, mostly insane, like:

        We have enough problems, right here on earth.

        We can’t afford it, need more welfare.

        We will just screw up anyplace else we go, like we are doing with earth, so we should just stay put.

        Statists are a lot like luddites with a serious case of self loathing.

        1. What? Statists LOVE space travel. That Mars thing last night caused the most celebration I’ve seen since Obamacare passed. They see it as some grand, noble endeavor. I see it as the government shipping billions of taxpayer dollars to another planet for no good reason.

          1. Hey, SB. Is smallchangecomic.net your work? I was checking it out, and I really like your drawings and jokes. Funny shit, man!

    5. capitalism is depleting the world’s FINITE resources. libertarianism doesn’t have an answer for that, that i’ve been able to find yet.

      achem. Dude = THE MATRIX

  22. …using the capital he’s earned as a recording artist…

    Silly rabbit… he didn’t build that!

    And besides… as ‘successful’ as he’s been, it clearly is an injustice he isn’t *more* rewarded by society, because his work has been about inspiring social revolution…whereas, The Black Eyed Peas, for example, are simply slaves to corporate overlords, spreading evil images of decadent materialism, hypnotizing the masses with false consciousness… they obviously should be forced to labor in the Gulag while Boots is rewarded with a key position in the new Ministry of Socially Approved Artistic Works…

    Actually, sending BEP to the Gulag *is* in fact something I’d support. Or have them eaten by piranha. Yeah, fuck the gulag. Piranha.

  23. “We need a system that’s not based on profit, but that’s based on helping people, that’s based on some sort of mutual control of resources,” he says

    LOL at this dork. Yeah, a system based on “mutual control of resources” sounds great, except that it’s really only possible in small-scale, culturally homogenous communities. The DIVERSITY IS OUR STRENGTH way of thinking is completely incompatible with this.

  24. Well hell, at least he admits what he is. I’m getting really tired of all the socialists I know denying it and expressing scorn for the people who call them on it. No, what they believe in isn’t “socialism,” it’s just common sense, and anyone who disagrees is obviously a right wing nutter. I think it’s even what they tell themselves – can’t even acknowledge to themselves that their core beliefs are socialist.

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