Brickbat: Control Your Temper

Police in Milledgeville, Georgia, handcuffed 6-year-old Salecia Johnson and hauled her off to a police station after she threw a temper tantrum at kindergarten. Johnson allegedly threw things, tore items off walls and knocked down a shelf, injuring the school's principal. She has been charged with simple assault and damage to property.

Brickbat Archive

Comments

[Bill]

Must have left their taser in the squad car.

[John C. Randolph]

Any teacher who calls a cop to handle a six year old throwing a tantrum is incompetent to supervise children. Any cop who puts cuffs on a six year old is incompetent to to wear a badge.

-jcr

[NotSure]

Not totally incompetent, the child has been given an early lesson on how the police state, she will live in as an adult, functions.

[Rich]

We're going to see a lot more of this. "Competent" teachers wisely pass the buck to the police in attempting to avoid lawsuits precipitated by touching/shaming someone's little darling.

[Auric Demonocles]

Agreed.

[sarcasmic]

aye

[Hyperion]

What can the teacher do, JCR? She can't touch the child thanks to the nanny state conditions that the progressives have installled in our society. The parents can't touch the child thanks to the same situation. The state is the only entity that can touch the child. This is progressive doctrine in effect.

When I was a kid, my parents would have beat my ass for pulling some shit like that, problem resolved.

This country is fucked until we get every last progressive out of every public office. They have run amok totally unopposed for decades and have taken over and effectively ruined the country. And they aren't through yet, now they are pushing for a race war so that the feds can step in, declare martial law and finally give them the police state heaven that they have been working towards for the last 100 years.

[TELLMOFF]

Progressives are popular people- more so than libertarians. They relieve Americans of their responsibilities.

[Hyperion]

They relieve Americans of their responsibilities.

Along with all of their civil rights and freedoms.

[Collins]

I can not believe that a six year old girl has been handcuffed! That sounds like an unrealistic movie and I can not understand why such an agression has provoked following it agressive way to be relieved?!
London Storage

[R]

The spam bots are evolving. Soon their posts will not only be on topic but will have perfect grammar and spelling. And then human race will be doomed.

[NotSure]

And how do we know that you are also not a spam bot ? I could be the last human alive here.

[$?? ???? Sparky]

Makes sense when you think about it, LOL!

[wef]

Let's face it. Salecia Johnson was hyped up on sugar. This happens all the time. A person of color jailed in yet another skittles-related incident.

Lucky thing that she wasn't wearing a hoodie.

[DangoRoRo]

Talking about angar management issues lol.

http://www.Net-Anon.tk

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Yes, the cops and not the parents are the problem here.

[Auric Demonocles]

The parents are partially to blame for the temper trantum happening. They're not responsible for the school/police reaction to it.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

What does a teacher do with a 6-year old who is so out of control and violent that words have no effect? Is the teacher allowed to touch the child? Is the teacher allowed to physically restrain the child? Is part of a teacher's job description to handle a violent child? At what grade level, if any, are teachers no longer responsible for constraining the actions of their students? Is a high school English teacher required to restrain or control an out of control 17 year old?

[sarcasmic]

They were able to in the past.
Why not now?

Oh yeah. Lawyers.

[Hyperion]

progressives, sarcasmic, progressives. That is the root of the problem. And no one has opposed the nut cases. They have taken over every facet of our government while most people are trying to earn a living and raise families.

[Auric Demonocles]

Two points before I answer:

1) Even calling the police doesn't require handcuffing and charging a 6 year old.

2) The following answers I'm giving are ideal, assuming our country wasn't retarded with lawyers and liability.

Physically stop them from committing violence since the kid is 6 and therefore not a threat to the teacher.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Grey area, depending more on the threat level. Certainly higher than 6 year olds.

Not necessarily, as a 17 year old could be dangerous to the teacher.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

1) Completely agree.
2) Your assumption is where the wheels come off, though. Given that assumption, I agree with your answers. Given reality, if I were a school employee, especially an easily scapegoated teacher, I'd have a pretty strong incentive not to do a damned thing and let the cops handle it, even with a six year old.

"Look at the bruises/scrapes/red marks on my snowflake's arm where this crazy teacher grabbed her to take her to the office. Also, he touched her naughty bits." Fuck that.

[Auric Demonocles]

If you agree with the first point, then why did you object to this:

They're not responsible for the school/police reaction to it.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

I think charging the kid was definitely unreasonable and handcuffing almost certainly was, though it may be that some type of restraint was required for her safety and that of others. I object to those bits. I don't object to calling the cops for potential practical and liability reasons.

I think the school reacted reasonably, if not perfectly, but I object to how far the cops took it.

[Auric Demonocles]

"Look at the bruises/scrapes/red marks on my snowflake's arm where this crazy teacher grabbed her to take her to the office. Also, he touched her naughty bits." Fuck that.

Also, if you're a male in any situation where you're near kids by yourself you've got to worry about that.

[sarcasmic]

Procedure was followed. Nothing else happened.

[TELLMOFF]

Procedures were followed on 9-11. "General Srategy" mandated cooperation with hijackers. Americans thrive on following procedures.

[lightning]

Considering what this child did, she needed to be removed from school. She assaulted the teacher and bit an administrator. This is a case where the child needs to be in an alternative setting (there are such placements, by the way). Just imagine what she is doing to her peers if she is assaulting teachers and administrators. Want your kid to sit next to her?

[Auric Demonocles]

Since when does "removed from school" require "handcuffed and charged with a crime"?

[Rich]

Probably since throwing a chloroform-soaked blanket on a kid was disallowed.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

What's your alternative way for the school to handle a child who is biting, punching, throwing, and screaming?

[sarcasmic]

If you can't control an unruly child then you probably shouldn't be in the occupation of teaching children.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

OK, let's presume that's true. How, as a teacher, do you control a child who is biting, kicking, punching, throwing, and screaming?

[sarcasmic]

Ah, yes.

The old "I'm gonna ask a rhetorical question and then shoot down every answer you give no matter what it is" game.

Sorry, but I'm not playing.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Ah, yes, the old Geithnerian "I don't know the answer but I know I don't like yours."

"Just handle it" isn't really an answer and it appears to me that your refusal even to address the issue of how it should be done tells me you have no answer other than "just handle it."

[Tonio]

But nothing says arguing in bad faith like putting words in others' mouths. Sarc wins.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Leaving aside that I explicitly said "appears" rather than claim that's his actual argument, he has repeatedly refused to use his own words to explain how the issue should have been handled.

How does anything he's said "win" anything in a discussion about what should have happened instead of what did happen?

[sarcasmic]

So now you put an answer in my mouth and argue against it.
Textbook straw man.

[Zeb]

Then why don't you answer the question? If you are going to condemn how this was handled, you should be able to propose an alternative.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Then give an answer, not a cop out like "you'll just dismiss my answer."

[Zeb]

Sounds like a legitimate question to me and not rhetorical at all. If a child is that out of control, you have to do something about it. 6 year olds are capable of hurting people and damaging property. So what is the teacher supposed to do? I don't think it is a reasonable assumption that a good teacher should be able to control all children under all circumstances. This sort of thing will happen occasionally. So what do you do about it?
I think that arresting and charging the girl with a crime is a bit much, but how many of the tuff guy parents on here would be talking about beating up the principal if he had done what was necessary to restrain the girl?

[sarcasmic]

If you can't restrain a six year old girl then you've got problems.
Seriously.
We're not talking about a high school athlete here.
We're talking about a six year old girl.

[Zeb]

What could possibly go wrong with a teacher who is not trained to do so safely restraining an out of control child? If the kid gets one scratch on them, you are fucked.

[sarcasmic]

You need special training to handle a six year old girl?

Holy shit that's pathetic.

No wonder this country is fucked.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

So, let's say your six year old melts down in class and starts throwing things, pulling stuff off the wall, kicking, screaming, biting, and refusing to calm down. What actions may the school take to control your child?

[sarcasmic]

There is an expression about explaining the obvious.
I can't think of it right now, but it's something along the lines of "If you have to explain it, they'll never understand"

[Zeb]

"You need special training to handle a six year old girl?"

You do if you are pretty much guaranteed to get sued or worse if you fuck it up.

[Bronwyn]

You take the child in your arms and sit down on the floor. Hug the child with her arms at her sides and speak to her in a calm voice. Keep doing this until she calms down (and she will).

This isn't necessarily the parents fault, either. My own son has a genius IQ that, at 5 years old, creates coping difficulties. He occasionally "goes off". It's obvious that he can't control it.

All we (his parents and teachers) can do is hold him and speak calmly to him "calm down, get it under control, it's ok, we love you, calm down..." He escalates for a bit because being held at times like that makes him rebel more for a while, but once he realizes he's safe and the adult holding him is in control and calm, he calms down.

It's surreal to watch... like a switch being flipped and he deflates, turns and hugs us.

It breaks my heart to see a child whose needs aren't being met. The adults are only focused on THEIR needs being met, not those of the child.

The adults should always maintain control. When an adult escalates, why would a child ever learn how how de-escalate on their own?

[lightning]

By the way, although I understand the knee-jerk reaction to the police involvement, the teachers/administrators are not trained to restrain small children. This is why the police must be called. This is my field (I work with troubled kids who are violent) and it requires training to safely restrain a violent child and I have not heard of any school district willing to train on this subject due to liability.

[sloopyinca]

This is why the police must be called.

What in the world would make you think the cops are trained to restrain small children? Or does "Stop Resisting" followed with slapping on the cuffs work on people of all ages?

Perhaps I could go into the teacher training business. Teaching a person how to yell at a kid and slap cuffs on them as a response to their contempt should be pretty easy. Hell, they're lovers of authoritarianism by and large anyway. Why not let them in on the fun parts of it.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

What's your training method for the school to handle a child who is biting, kicking punching, throwing, and screaming?

[sarcasmic]

They were able to do it for the last hundred years, why can't they do it now?

What changed?

[MP]

Liability.

Look, teachers have a valid concern for wanting to be hands-off due to the sue happy nature of our culture. And it's possible that the appropriate "restraint" procedures may involve law enforcement authorities.

But none of this justifies criminalizing the actions of a 6-year old. Take him out of school until the district can hire an appropriate care person (yes, they're mandated to do this).

[lightning]

What changed is every parent (myself included) not being willing to allow just anybody to put their hands on my kid. Are most teachers good people? Yeah, but what about some who have the same mentality you see in overzealous cops? I actually support training teachers the appropriate way to restrain a child, but will not sign off on simply letting the school "discipline" my kid. Next to preaching, perverts love to teach.

[MP]

You're still ducking the criminalization issue.

[lightning]

sorry - see my comment below.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Charging a six year old doesn't serve any purpose I can see -- other than, perhaps, emphasizing the issue to the parents, but that's not really supposed to be how law is used, imo.

[Tonio]

Thanks for admitting your'e part of the problem, lightning.

[Zeb]

We regularly have comments on here from parents to the effect of "if that was my kid, I'd be in jail now" or some other variation on how they'd beat up anyone who handles their kid in a way they don't like. And yet teachers are supposed to magically handle things like this without arousing the ire of parents?

[sarcasmic]

We regularly have comments on here from parents to the effect of "if that was my kid, I'd be in jail now" or some other variation on how they'd beat up anyone who handles their kid in a way they don't like.

Last I recall such comments were in relation to TSA grope-downs.

Thank you for a great example of false equivalency.

[Zeb]

Such comments occur pretty regularly regarding schools' treatment of children as well.

[sloopyinca]

What's your training method for the school to handle a child who is biting, kicking punching, throwing, and screaming?

Not sure, but it won't include bringing in armed agents o the state to handcuff them and throw them in the back of a police cruiser.

I guess I would probably start by placing them in a secure room and calling their parent to come and take them home...not to return until the child is better able to interact with the other special snowflakes.

[Ex Nihilo]

I guess I would probably start by placing them in a secure room and calling their parent to come and take them home...not to return until the child is better able to interact with the other special snowflakes.

We had a similar situation when our oldest was in the first grade. The teacher cleared the room of all the kids except for the one out of control (not mine). Called the parents to come get their kid and charged them for the damages done. The teacher stayed in the room to ensure the kid didn't hurt themselves.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

That seems like the most reasonable approach at this point, provided the parents can get there in a timely manner.

I think any policy that requires, or maybe even allows, a teacher physically to restrain a student -- except for the safety of another student -- is going to be problematic.

Back in the day, a male teacher would be called to haul the kid to the office but I don't think that's feasible anymore.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Sounds good, but the "placing them" part glosses over the method for doing so. Would your method provide immunity from lawsuit for the restrainers for reasonable cuts, bumps, scrapes, sprains, contusions, other injuries sustained by the flailing, biting snowflake during this "placing?"

[sarcasmic]

That such questions are even asked confirms that common sense is truly dead.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Yeah, it is. Are you willing to risk your livelihood on the off chance that the parents aren't litigious... or even just a big enough pain to get you thrown under the bus?

I wonder how easy it is for a teacher to get a job after being let go for getting "too rough" with a six year old.

[sloopyinca]

That's why you always videotape the removal of a child from a classroom. Tape doesn't lie.

[sloopyinca]

"Placing" doesn't necessarily involve a positive action. It could be as simple as clearing a room of others. And if it did involve a positive action, I would do my best to make sure they were done by someone being recorded on audio and video. And they wouldn't be armed.

[lightning]

I apologize for using the word "placing". I simply meant that the room should be cleared of other students & that someone responsible should remain in the room to ensure that the child (with the tantrum) should be supervised to ensure they do not hurt themselves. I don't advocate touching the child with the tantrum, but meant that the person staying should move books, furniture, or any other items that the child could use to hurt themselves. Sloopyinca, I actually really like your idea of cameras. I know folks don't like my profession, but cameras are extremely useful not only in terms of litigation, but amazingly, with detering certain behaviors (more results seen with older kids who are consious of being taped of course).

[Bronwyn]

Any teacher of small children should be trained or have the simple sense to know how to handle this sort of situation. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't be supervising small children.

The point is to ensure the child is safe and FEELS safe, and you (the adult) are in control.

It's not hard to do, it just requires shifting your mind-set and perspective to what the child needs in any given moment.

[MP]

Look, this is not simply about restraint. They pressed criminal charges against a 6-year old.

[lightning]

This is where I agree with you on the over-reaction. The charges can't be acted upon because in this country children under 7 lack the capacity for intent. What you may not understand is that they have to press charges so that the school and community can intervene to help the child. Basically, the charges will allow the school to have psychological, cognitive, behavioral and other testing done to address this child's problems. The parents will be compeled to allow this due to the "charges". My understanding is without these "charges" the parents could avoid addressing this problem.

[Tonio]

My, your posts just drip with smugness, lightning.

[MP]

Absolute bullshit. There's a full process behind dealing with a 504 plan. And it in no way involves criminalization.

[lightning]

The 504 plan does address how a school deals with it, but one must first identify the child in need of a 504 plan. I have never heard of a school pressing charges like this, and my statment is only a supposition that in that locality it is their way of initiating the creation of a 504 plan. I agree it is a bad method, but offered it up as a possible reaon for the charges.

[sloopyinca]

Your supposition assumption about how the school system initiates a 504 plan is absurd. The PD said the child was charged because it was the officer's prerogative to charge her. It had nothing to do with the school since the school officials did not, and cannot, arrest her. Perhaps you've seen too many TV shows where someone tells a cop, "I want to press charges," and the cop initiates an arrest.

In the words of Cloen Salmon: Never assume. When you assume, you make an asshole...out of yourself.

[sloopyinca]

The parents will be compeled to allow this due to the "charges". My understanding is without these "charges" the parents could avoid addressing this problem.

Why should they be compelled to do anything? Remove the child from the public school system until he/she can interact with other children in a way that is not harmful/dangerous/overly disruptive.

Charging someone with a crime so you can force them to get the help you want them to have is the definition of a police state, you stupid fucking bastard. Try showing them the door (or their parents the door in the case of a child) instead of using the legal system as the solution to behavioral problems.

[Death Rock and Skull]

"What you may not understand is that they have to press charges so that the school and community can intervene to help the child."

That's some bureaucratic "for your own good" statist nonsense.

[GozWa]

I'm so glad that as a non-parent I am so blessed to be able to participate in this process by paying for all this shit.

[Tonio]

^This. And a child who is probably mentally ill sinc normal kids outgrow the tantrum thing well before school age. Which is why you don't start schoolin' them till age six, just not civilized enough before then.

[lightning]

A child who wrecks a classroom, assaults a teacher, and bites an administrator is having a simple tantrum? I have children myself as well as being in the field of helping children with behavioral issues. The aforementioned behavior is NOT a tantrum. An age appropriate tantrum for a six year old is yelling, screaming, dropping on the floor, and refusing to follow directions. Physical violence such as this child demonstrated is NOT a normal tantrum. Smug? Since when is trying to help people understand the issues of helping children with behavioral issues in the school system smug? If that is smug, so isn't your comment.

[Tonio]

I have children myself as well as being in the field of helping children with behavioral issues.

And I'm a grandfather and have a degree in psychology. But I don't smugly trot those out to shut down the opinions of others.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

What would be your policy for how a teacher would be allowed to control a six year old who's in the middle of a violent outburst?

[sarcasmic]

What would be your policy for how a teacher would be allowed to control a six year old who's in the middle of a violent outburst?

If you can't make any decisions without needing to consult a policy manual, you're too fucking stupid to be alive.

[sarcasmic]

I have children myself as well as being in the field of helping children with behavioral issues.

Lord, help us.

[lightning]

Lord help the rest of us when smug self-righteous fools like you slap down every comment discussing the issue without offering one concrete point yourself.

[sarcasmic]

Boo fucking hoo, lightning.

You'll find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

[sloopyinca]

A child who wrecks a classroom, assaults a teacher, and bites an administrator is having a simple tantrum?

Where the hell did it say she assaulted a teacher or bit an administrator? It said she knocked over a shelf that injured a principal, which seems a bit dubious to me. Any man or woman that cannot hold a shelf up when a six year old is trying to pull it down must be a pretty weak person.

I want you to show me from the story where it says she assaulted a teacher or bit anybody. Because until you do, I will assume you are making those "facts" up to save face from your idiocy above in defending having the kid arrested.

[Death Rock and Skull]

It only takes one little confrontational asshole thing from a classmate or a teacher, or more likely a buildup of bullshit over time, to royally piss a kid off. Psychology associated "professionals" take their ideas of "normal" too seriously. Psychology is bullshit.

[Death Rock and Skull]

"teachers/administrators are not trained to restrain small children"

They used to be. Or, they at least knew how to grab a kid's arms and pull them away.

[Hyperion]

And drag them off to the principals office where they would await an ass beating.

[lightning]

MP I do share your concern about involving the police. Although I cannot sign off on "old fashioned discipline" by schools; I would embrace teaching teachers how to appropriately restrain an out of control child or in having some other person be available to do this in the interest of safety. However, as others have pointed out, liability is such that many school districts will not give this training. This is sad since you and I can both see how being taken by police would emotionally scar any child. My only hope is that schools will become more proactive and identify children with emotional problems before they need to call the police.

[Tonio]

Concerned ninny is concerned.

[lightning]

Down dumb dog, down.

[Zeb]

I more or less agree. I think that the best thing would be to have and aide at the school who is large and trained to safely restrain an out of control child.

[Tonio]

lightning at 9:01: This is why the police must be called. [Emphasis mine.]

But, hey, your concern as expressed at 10:04 makes everything alright.

[lightning]

Ok smart*ss what is your solution.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

If you don't know the solution, the solution can't be explained to you. Tonio wins.

[lightning]

Tonio is a dumb*ass who wants to slap down my opinions while claiming that is what I am doing to others. My solution was given: train teachers to safely restrain violent kids appropriately (because you can hurt them if you do it wrong). I would also say that a better way for the teacher to respond in this particular instance would have been to call an adminstrator into the room, then take everyone (but the little girl acting up) outside, have the adminstrator clear the immediate area of objects, and let the little girl get it out of her system. Unfortunately, teachers are not properly trained to handle kids how have greater behavioral needs. I don't like it, but I don't see anyone else advocating less liability for schools or more training (ie higher taxes) for schools.

[sloopyinca]

The solution is to separate the child from others and have his/her parent pick them up. If that removal involves contact with an unruly child, it should be videotaped.

Also, every classroom in America ought to have a webcam taping it that can be monitored by every parent in the class at any time. That way, they can call the parent and tell them, "You're kid's an out of control asshole. You better come and get them right now before they hurt another child. If you do not come down, you will be financially responsible for the injuries and/or property damage they cause."

[lightning]

I agree with you (obviously based on my previous comment). The only problem with what you have shared is that some parents won't come when called (this is not in reference to the situation highlighted in this article - her parents did come when notified - I think). Although sad, there are parents out there who simply do not want to parent their kid and that leaves the current system in a bind.

[sloopyinca]

Although sad, there are parents out there who simply do not want to parent their kid and that leaves the current system in a bind.

I disagree. They've just become conditioned to the state raising their child. Maybe if they actually paid for their children's educations instead of having them subsidized by everybody else, they would be more proactive in their children's lives.

Also, this whole "It takes a village" nonsense has led to the demise of the family unit in America. People no longer have the rights and responsibilities to raise their children the way they want. The compulsion to do what the state tells you to do with your children starts the moment they are born and that hospital bracelet is put on their wrist. Just ask any parent who wants to take their day-old baby out of a hospital for a breath of fresh air.

[lightning]

Your school solution is great, and even if not possible in terms of todays politics I do hope that we can get more charter schools or that program that allows parents to take the money out of public schools and use it for private tuition. I don't know how successful these programs are, but at least it gives parents a choice.

[Tonio]

IOW, your playing the "parent" and "expert" cards didn't work out as planned. So now you're changing tactics.

[lightning]

No, I am discussing the issue and do not feel the need to pull the childish progressive Saul Alisnsky tactics you do. Challenging my proposed solutions, my view of reality (as in schools have few alternatives), is cool. Needing to personalize this stuff is silly.

[Just Dropping By]

I'm not surprised about the police being called or even the handcuffing (depending on how big and violent the six year-old is), but I can't believe that Georgia allows six year-olds to be criminally charged.

[R C Dean]

There was a time when, under the common law that we have largely discarded, a child under the age of 7 could not be charged with a crime of any kind, on the theory that THEY'RE A CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 7, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

A perfectly good rule, evolved over hundreds of years of common law jurisprudence, which has apparently been casually tossed aside because we're just so much fucking smarter and better in every way that anyone has ever been.

[Hyperion]

Well, the progs have circumvented that logic, RC. Just put the child on one of the progs cherished lists and then the nanny state will effectively have the authority to fuck with them for the rest of their life. We already have TSA terrorizing 4 year olds at airports becaue they may be armed and dangerous. In a few more years we will be China, minus the strong economy.

[Tonio]

^This. "Age of reason" used to be the legal term, IIRC.

And don't forget how progressives are starting to rumble about how 21-yo's aren't "real" adults (prelude to stripping their rights).

So, progressives want all minors, even young children, arrestable; yet don't want to grant any rights until age 25.

[Hyperion]

I am really getting sick of hearing the term adult children, although it effectively describes all progressive adults, regardless of age.

[sloopyinca]

I am really getting sick of hearing the term "adult children",

If you don't believe that term is accurate, I challenge you to read the Morning Links more often.

[0x90]

"So, progressives want all minors, even young children, arrestable; yet don't want to grant any rights until age 25."

Statism being a quasi religion, it is predictable such a policy might be favored by its priests. Could come in pretty handy in certain circumstances. 😛

Seriously though, the active fostering, by rulers, of a general state of dependency amongst the ruled is a motivation even the most oblivious should be able to grasp. When you make your living skimming off the production of hundreds of millions, you can afford to allow that production to fall to a relatively low level. Your job is to find the point at which the general state of poverty is not so burdensome as to produce in the ruled sufficient motivation toward individual rectification of the situation, yet not so light as to allow them to conceive of themselves as being capable of existing independent of your rulership.

In this, various ancillary strategies prove useful, generally aimed at the creation and maintenance of factions within the population, such that any dissatisfaction which makes its way to the surface is attributed not to its true source, but to fictions which do not, in reality, exist. See: class warfare, race warfare, general bigotry, the false dichotomies of left vs. right or government vs. big industry, etc.

So keep them dependent, and keep them fighting: the future you are looking to produce is one of a perpetual bland, grey mediocrity.

[Crackers Boy]

According to my mother (so it must be true), my older brother threw exactly one tantrum in his life. (Apparently I never did). Brother went apeshit crying, screaming, throwing himself on the floor. Mom filled a glass with water and tossed the water on him.

He stopped immediately, with a rather confused look on his face.

Anybody want to beat up a teacher that throws a glass of water on their kid? I probably wouldn't.

CB

[Zeb]

See, now there is the kind of positive suggestion I was looking for. An actual alternative that might just work. Of course, if it doesn't work, you still have to do something.

[NeonCat]

If a glass doesn't work, try a bucket of ice water. One should not escalate to water-boarding, however.

Not for a first offense, anyway.

[Hyperion]

And now comes an army of lawyers just begging to take the case.

[0x90]

Is the water fluoridated?

[sloopyinca]

Then what happens when the spill is not properly marked and a child, or worse a school employee, slips and falls? What if the yellow spill sign is only in English and an ESL kid or employee slips and falls, bankrupting the school district with the lawsuit?

Why do you want to bankrupt the public school system, CB?

[Death Rock and Skull]

I once deliberately started a fight with a kid just so I could throw his stupid ass in to a Christmas tree and knock it over.

[Hyperion]

If that was before camera phones, then too bad. I would love to see that one on youtube, (:, that shit is pure evil dude... in a good sort of way. There should be some good death metal playing in the background of the grainy camera phone vid for great effect.

[lightning]

Were you mad at the kid or the Christmas tree?

[Tonio]

1) Mandatory third-party training and certification for public school teachers in incident handling. I'm envisioning something like EMS First Responder training with extended modules on mental issues. Restraint is not part of FR cert, so that would be unique to this cert. Teachers who can't pass this or physically perform those duties are out of the classroom.

2) Make it easier for schools to expel little miss tantrum and those like her. This would be coupled with strong scrutiny and individual educrat liability to prevent the schools from conveniently classifying non-violent students as unmanageable.

3) Eliminate mandatory-schooling laws to shift the burden for the truly uneducable from the public schools* to the parents.

(*)Standard libertarian disclaimers about public education. Standard pragmatist disclaimer that this isn't going away any time soon.

Discuss.

[Hyperion]

Simplified Plan:

Once again allow parents to cut a switch off a willow bush and put a few minor lacerations on the ass of child in question. Priceless!

[sarcasmic]

Once again allow parents to cut a switch off a willow bush...

Fuck that. Make the kid go get it, then reject the first one and make them get a thicker one.

[Hyperion]

My aunt used to actually do that to her brats. I am being serious here. And they fucking deserved it, and so did I, we were little hellions. Is that a real word? (:

[Night Elf Mohawk]

It is. And a real song. Or instrumental.

[Tonio]

Certainly there are many more under-disciplined children than there used to be, but there are also children with real mental issues that can't be solved with discipline.

[lightning]

Finally, a decent reply to the subject rather than trashing others. And, in an ideal world, I actually agree with every point (most especially #2 & #3). However, the reality is that the likelihood of #2 &/or #3 occurring is about as likely as either Obama or Romney passing a flat consumption tax. As much as I may hate it (and maybe you too) we must co-exist with progressives who will never constrain attorneys who live to sue, nor will they ever allow the common sense solution of kicking unruly kids out of school. It stinks and I don't like it, but what are you gonna do?

[Death Rock and Skull]

Of course private school employees should be exempt. Instead policy should be terms of service that parents should be aware of for their children's attendance.

[Tonio]

Of course.

[Hyperion]

My wife and I are well past the age of it being a reasonable option to think about brining another child into this world. But I can say without reservation that if we were younger, I would not even consider at all raising a child in this country, for the better of both us and the child. This country is no place to raise a child.

[sloopyinca]

What would it involve to put tear gas canisters in each classroom? They could just gas the entire room when something like this kid's tantrum happens. Thet way, every kid could learn to be conditioned by the state, not just the kid who is throwing a fit. IME, it will cut down on the amount of brainwashing they will have to put kids through in middle and high school to ensure they are good little statists who submit to their betters in positions of authority.

[Hyperion]

Better yet, the state can just put shock collars on all of us at birth. Then hire an army of useful idiots to monitor our actions and deliver the appropriate shock level for certain actions:

Level one offense( example, acting up in classroom) - low level voltage

Level two offense( posting on reason.com and criticizing dear leader or annointed clone for team red) - mid level voltage

Level three offense ( voting 3rd party) - lethal voltage

[Death Rock and Skull]

Before tear gas is set off, there should be sirens where everybody is required to drop to the floor. That way small numbers of non complying can be dealt with. Gas is for larger unruly crowds.

[sarcasmic]

Even better have masks like the ones in airplanes above the kids' desks, and the teacher controls which ones drop and which ones don't.
Little Johnny's acting up again? Drop all the masks but his and let go with the gas.

[Ex Nihilo]

Little Johnny's acting up again? Drop all the masks but his and let go with the gas.

And when Little Johnny beats the kid next to him and takes his mask, what then?

/snarc

[Death Rock and Skull]

How is that better? I'm just going to fight to get someone else's mask.

I really think the prison scenario could be down the road in certain schools. There are already some multistory innercity schools where the ground floor is only a lobby with a desk and metal detectors, like a federal building. And kids wear uniforms and carry clear backpacks.

[sarcasmic]

Then teacher presses a button and that mask goes back to the ceiling.

[Bronwyn]

I did post this once upthread and have seen several opportunities to use it in response, but I'll be a good commenter and just post it again here:

You take the child in your arms and sit down on the floor. Hug the child with her arms at her sides and speak to her in a calm voice. Keep doing this until she calms down (and she will).

This isn't necessarily the parents fault, either. My own son has a genius IQ that, at 5 years old, creates coping difficulties. He occasionally "goes off". It's obvious that he can't control it.

All we (his parents and teachers) can do is hold him and speak calmly to him "calm down, get it under control, it's ok, we love you, calm down..." He escalates for a bit because being held at times like that makes him rebel more for a while, but once he realizes he's safe and the adult holding him is in control and calm, he calms down.

It's surreal to watch... like a switch being flipped and he deflates, turns and hugs us.

It breaks my heart to see a child whose needs aren't being met. The adults are only focused on THEIR needs being met, not those of the child.

The adults should always maintain control. When an adult escalates, why would a child ever learn how how de-escalate on their own?

[Hyperion]

Hug the child with her arms at her sides . Sex offender list for you!

[Tonio]

Good technique.

[Bronwyn]

It works amazingly well. It's not something that comes naturally to every adult, though (obviously). But man, it works every time.

And after the calming down comes the talk and the consequences (lest anyone thing throwing a fit or doing whatever led to the fit can be answered with nothing more than a hug).

[sloopyinca]

Your 5 year old with a "genius IQ" sounds like a brat. You know, like every kid at the age of 5 can be. I hope your "hug the anger away" plan keeps working for you. But be prepared, if he really is a genius, he will soon learn that all he has to do to get you off his ass is to hug him back. Then he can go right back to whatever the hell he wants to do because the consequences will be to get a hug from mommy/daddy. Shit, I don't know if my kids are geniuses or not, but they figured that shit out when they were like three years old.

You've always got to keep kids off guard. Punish them with no consistency whatsoever. One day, it's a timeout. The next day it's a spanking. The third, their PSP gets taken for a week. Make sure they never know what's coming when they do something wrong, because they will not want to take the chance on losing something dear to them.

And one more thing: don't punish them for minor things. Whether a teacher or a parent, let kids make mistakes...and I mean behavioral mistakes. The shame and ostracization from the other kids will go a lot further than anything you lay down.

[Death Rock and Skull]

Genius kids are more likely to be libertarians. They only get in to trouble because of the effects that bullshit has on them.

[sarcasmic]

I have noticed that someone with a broken bullshit detector is much more likely to be a liberal than someone who can tell when they're being handed a load of crap.
Liberals seem to fall into one of two groups: Liars and the idiots who believe them.

[sloopyinca]

I would agree with every word if you replaced "liberal" with "progressive."

[sarcasmic]

You know what I mean.

[sloopyinca]

Of course I do, but the thread wouldn't be complete without be being a pedantic asshole.

[CharlesWT]

"You've always got to keep kids off guard. Punish them with no consistency whatsoever. One day, it's a timeout. The next day it's a spanking. The third, their PSP gets taken for a week. Make sure they never know what's coming when they do something wrong, because they will not want to take the chance on losing something dear to them."

Sounds like a prescription for market failure in the risk/rewards market. At some point they may decide they've got noting to lose from doing something since they can't judge accurately what they do have to lose.

[Bronwyn]

Thankfully, my sarcasmometer was recently tuned, so I know not to rise to your bait.

[sloopyinca]

FTA: But police told WMAZ that an officer tried to calm Salecia, but when she resisted, she was handcuffed and taken to the police station.

Is not "calming down" a crime? Or was this just another case of Contempt Of Cop"? This is a serious question, because if the cop only arrested her because she didn't do what he ordered her to do, then that's pretty fucked up.

[Death Rock and Skull]

Lucky to be alive.

[sarcasmic]

if the cop only arrested her because she didn't do what he ordered her to do, then that's pretty fucked up

Not only is it fucked up, it's standard procedure.

O
B
E
Y

[sloopyinca]

And one other thing: If a kid is 5 years old and a genius, he would have figured out how to manipulate all of the other kids and/or adults around him.

Whoever told you that was just selling you a bill of goods to make you think those "coping issues" are because he's a special snowflake. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but unless he's doing something extraordinary, like composing music, doing calculus or conducting chemistry experiments, then he's just a normal 5 year old who doesn't always get along with others.

[Bronwyn]

I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. There are multiple intelligences and having an exceptionally high IQ does not equate to particular academic achievements at an early age, nor does it equate to the manipulative skill you describe.

Again, I'm not rising to your bait. You don't know what you're talking about, and you don't know him, so disparaging comments like yours are little more than ignorant garbage.

And that's a qualitative statement, not a value judgement.

[sloopyinca]

It's not bait. And I wasn't trying to be a dick. I'm just sure that every five year old kid who is not retarded would be considered a "genius" by some metric. I'm not denigrating yours, I'm just saying the systems to quantify the IQ of someone with a brain in the early developmental stage of life should be viewed with a very skeptical eye.

It speaks more to the gullibility of an adult to accept the testing than it does to the actual intelligence of the child in question. Hell, my daughter was tested when she was 3 years old because she was reading 2nd and 3rd grade level books and was able to do basic math. They told me she should be in Kindergarten because she was obviously a genius. And yes, she's an A student in 8th grade now, but a "genius"? We'll have to wait and see. Conversely, they told me my son was not as smart as her at the same age because he couldn't do those things. You know what? He's in 6th grade doing high school calculus with ease.

My (anecdotal) point is: those tests are fucking worthless.

[Bronwyn]

Well, that part of the assessment was just a gauge to help us understand the whole scope of his needs. I didn't just run away with "HEY! He's smart just like his mamma!" It was about understanding where his mind is, and how best to help him do his best.

The genius term came from me, just as a generic reference to his positioning on the overall scale, it wasn't the doc trying to sell me a bill of goods 🙂 The testing broke things out really well, so we could pinpoint where his difficulties lie and where he excels--it was actually very useful to us, as it helped us to understand his learning style and where to direct our educational efforts.

Believe me, I'm not a "special snowflake" thinker. We recognized that we'd reached a point where we needed more information in order to continue to help him, and that's what we got.

At any rate, the outbursts for him are related to actual neurological issues that didn't just appear out of nowhere or develop from imperfect parenting. From the day he was born, there were signals that something was a little different, and we've dealt with that signal development over time.

I feel badly for this little girl. Not every kid who throws a tantrum is a rotten little brat. There's more than likely a reason underlying her outburst. She needs some help from calm adults who can guide her to learning her own coping skills.

She doesn't need to be handcuffed and terrified by police and have her trust in her teachers so thoroughly betrayed.