The Truth about Public Servants: Adrian Moore at Reason Weekend 2012

"The problem [with government workers] really is the unions," says Adrian Moore, who is Reason Foundation's vice president for policy. "These are organizations whose mission is to oppose the taxpayers and get a better deal for their members. That's their mission."

At Reason Weekend, the annual donor event held by Reason Foundation (the nonprofit that publishes this website), Moore challenged the misperception that public-sector workers are underpaid. In fact, government workers do better than their private sector counterparts in terms of wages, benefits, pensions, and job stability. And the size of the government workforce expands, Moore argued, whether the economy is up or down, a phenomenon he calls "fair weather Keynesianism."

Approximately 33 minutes. Filmed by Joshua Swain and Anthony Fisher. Edited by Jim Epstein.

Visit Reason.tv for downloadable versions and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube Channel to receive automatic notifications when new material goes live

Comments

[shrike]

Better war than Pact (with Nazis)

[heller]

Better the real shrike then a pointless spoof

[Cytotoxic]

That's debatable.

[Suki]

There is no debate, heller has it backwards.

[the adorable jeffy]

Wow, what color is the sky in your world?

[Almanian]

Christfag Blue

[UNIONZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!]

Koch-sucking must get so boring for the reason whores.

[heller]

I can sum up the relationship between public servants and taxpayers in one word: Penetration

[heller, schmeller]

Poor heller. He still thinks anarchy can work.

[heller]

I'm sorry I revealed your name to everyone, Mary. I really am.

Nah, I'm not.

[heller]

Also, I find it funny that you think you know what I think. Ha.

[Catch-22]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[steve]

Main problem with public unions is they negotiate ( and get ) unfunded entitlements like health care and pensions. Politicians strike deals with them and kick the can down the road. Eventually the piper has to be paid as we are finding out in CA,IL,WI

[The Derider]

So a public employee with a pension and health care has an "unfunded entitlement", whereas a private employee with a pension and health care just has a pension and health care.

Why are contracts signed by the government somehow different than contracts signed by private companies? Other than the fact that the Koch brothers can spend millions of dollars to invalidate the contracts signed by the government?

[The Derprider]

What do you mean there's a difference between a private company that properly pays out and a government that puts off paying out and then screws the taxpayer? KOCHS.

[DesigNate]

Because, there is an inherent conflict of interest for pubsec unions to be negotiating with the very people they elect.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

o a public employee with a pension and health care has an "unfunded entitlement", whereas a private employee with a pension and health care just has a pension and health care.

Without the private sector, the public employee has no job. When revenues drop due to job losses in the private sector, public employees either lose theirs too, or the government has to sell bonds (i.e., debt) to pay their salaries.

Basic math > Derider

[shrike]

Here's a question for all you Tony-types out there. Under your broad interpretation of the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause, what can't the federal government do?

[Tony-type]

Make me purchase a gun. Vile. Vile. Hiss. Boo.

[Xenocles]

No, that doesn't work. One of their arguments in support of the mandate is the one-time Militia Act, so they obviously think it's well within their power to force gun purchases (not that they ever would).

[I Blame Videogames!]

Proof they don't read the document in question:

Article 1, Section 8
The Congress shall have Power . . . To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Yes, they can legally force us to buy a gun.

[WTF?]

"Yes, they can legally force us to buy a gun."

I would disagree with that reading, the wording is "to provide for", I'm unaware of that being interpreted as a power to compel purchasing.

Has it ever been ruled as such?

In addtion, it specifically cites "the Militia", and as far as I'm aware, "the Militia" is a term that requires actual membership in the militia.

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, because here the power directly references power over the Militia.

Is there case law I'm unaware of? I do believe that your interpretation is certainly within what the court could rule, but have they?

[WTF?]

"Yes, they can legally force us to buy a gun."

I would disagree with that reading, the wording is "to provide for", I'm unaware of that being interpreted as a power to compel purchasing.

Has it ever been ruled as such?

In addtion, it specifically cites "the Militia", and as far as I'm aware, "the Militia" is a term that requires actual membership in the militia.

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, in that here, it directly references power over

[WTF?]

"Yes, they can legally force us to buy a gun."

I would disagree with that reading, the wording is "to provide for", I'm unaware of that being interpreted as a power to compel purchasing.

Has it ever been ruled as such?

In addtion, it specifically cites "the Militia", and as far as I'm aware, "the Militia" is a term that requires actual membership in the militia.

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, in that here, it directly references power over

[WTF?]

(contd. f-ing squirrels)

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, in that here, it directly references power over

[WTF?]

jesus christ...

Trying AGAIN

"Yes, they can legally force us to buy a gun."

I would disagree with that reading, the wording is "to provide for", I'm unaware of that being interpreted as a power to compel purchasing.

Has it ever been ruled as such?

In addtion, it specifically cites "the Militia", and as far as I'm aware, "the Militia" is a term that requires actual membership in the militia.

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, in that here, it directly references power over

[WTF?]

It's not the same as the "militia" reference in the second, in that here, it directly references power over the Militia, which the 2nd doesn't.

Is there case law I'm unaware of? I do believe that your interpretation is certainly within what the court could rule, but have they?

[Xenocles]

Congress can buy you a gun, sure. Maybe they can even hand you money and say "Go buy this gun." To make you spend your own money on the purchase seems to be nowhere within that language.

[TELLMOFF]

The government is all-powerful and is using more of this power becaues there are few patriots that they fear.

[MNG]

"These are organizations whose mission is to oppose the taxpayers and get a better deal for their members."

I'm not saying public unions don't do this, but I'm also not sure how that makes them different than any organization that does business with the government. Don't all military contractors, or contracted service providers, or private prisons, or what have you, any entity that does business with the goverment, try to get the best deal for themselves at the expense of the taxpayers?

For that matter, "trying to get the best deal for themselves at the expense of the other side", wouldn't that fairly describe any business bargain? Who goes into any contractual relationship (and that's what an employment contract is, whether colletively bargained or not) trying to get the least for themselves and the most benefit for the other guy?

[MNG]

So I can see why GOPers would single out public employee unions for hate; they support Dems more. But I would think a libertarian would, while not liking them, hate them no more than a military contractor or "faith based" entity that sucks at the public teat...

[SIV]

Military contractors and faith-based entities don't conduct SWAT-style raids to enforce their incomprehensible and voluminous regulatory codes

[MNG]

Some military contractors do indeed conduct raids, they do them in Afghanistan and Iraq and such.

And of course most government employees don't conduct raids at all.

[The Facts]

The clerk filing the paperwork is just as guilty as the SWAT team.

[Cytotoxic]

They're fighting evil in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here, they are the evil.

[Almanian]

Also, what SIV said

[DesigNate]

Make no mistake, we don't like that either. But basically what SIV said.

[Almanian]

"trying to get the best deal for themselves at the expense of the other side"

Nice cartoon. If you had any bidness experience, you wouldn't be SHOCKED to discover that most negotiations between business parties are around the margins of what each side consideres "fair" as opposed to "how can I screw you to my benefit".

The former approach leads to the most-productive business relationships in my experience - the latter tends to lead to one-time contracts, and the search for a "better business to partner with."

VOLUNTARY associations to MUTUAL benefit - how do they work?

[MNG]

You go into business negotiations trying to get only what's marginally good for you?

I mean, most people realistically know that's what they are going to get, sure. Because the other guy is trying to get the best deal he can too.

So it's not a problem that employee unions are trying to get the best deal they can, everyone does that. It's that the other side is not trying to get the best deal they can...

[heller]

No the problem is that some unions are using government coercion to get the best deal they can.

[MNG]

But that's equally true for all organizations that get government funds, right?

[heller]

Is it?

[Catch-22]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[Episiarch]

Surprise, surprise, surprise, MNG things all business negotiations are inherently hostile. What an unbelievably childish and moronic belief. Maybe you should go back to getting your business experience from watching Captain Planet, super genius.

[Shorter, slightly edited Epi]

MNG is childish and moronic

FYP.

[MNG]

BUT BUT BUT I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU!!!

I SWEAR IT'S NOT PATHETIC AS FUCK TO SAY THAT!!!

I SWEAR I'M NOT TRYING TOO HARD EVEN THOUGH THAT PRETTY MUCH IS THE DEFINITION!!!!

AND MY DICK IS BIG AND MY HOUSE TOO!!!!

[MNG]

Who knew the pussy spoofer lurked today?

[MNG]

I GET MAD AND CALL PEOPLE PUSSIES WHEN THEY POINT OUT HOW I'VE MADE A FOOL OF MYSELF IN THE PAST!!!

BUT BUT BUT I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU!!!

I SWEAR IT'S NOT PATHETIC AS FUCK TO SAY THAT!!!

I SWEAR I'M NOT TRYING TOO HARD EVEN THOUGH THAT PRETTY MUCH IS THE DEFINITION!!!!

AND MY DICK IS BIG AND MY HOUSE TOO!!!!

[MNG]

Where did I say that Epi?

I think in most business negotiations you try to get, realistically, the best deal you can for yourself. Of course the other guy usually benefits in these, but that's not because you are looking out for him, but he's looking out for himself.

Hence why I said the problem in employee union-government negotiations is not the union trying to get the best deal it can, but the government not trying to do the same.

[MNG]

"Where did I say"
"MNG things (SIC)"

I CAN'T READ ENGLISH, AND THINK THAT THINKING IS SAYING!!!!

[MNG]

"Because the other guy is trying to get the best deal he can too."

Hostile
1) Unfriendly
2) Antagonistic

Antagonistic

1)Showing or feeling active opposition

I SAID IT RIGHT THERE BUT I'M TOO FUCKING STUPID TO REALIZE IT.

[MNG]

I MEAN, I GENUINELY BELIEVE THE ONLY DEFINITION FOR HOSTILE IS THE ONE I USE!!!!

[MNG]

You're pretty deranged today.

[MNG]

I'LL ALSO TRY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT BECAUSE I JUST MADE A FOOL OUT OF MYSELF BY BEING PROVEN WRONG!!!

BUT BUT BUT I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU!!!

I SWEAR IT'S NOT PATHETIC AS FUCK TO SAY THAT!!!

I SWEAR I'M NOT TRYING TOO HARD EVEN THOUGH THAT PRETTY MUCH IS THE DEFINITION!!!!

AND MY DICK IS BIG AND MY HOUSE TOO!!!!

[MNG]

Two people bargaining to reach the best deal they each respectively can gain from the bargain is not hostile.

It's capitalism.

There was this little line from Adam Smith about what motivated the butcher to cut your meat, and if you take your meds and look it up you'll see it wasn't to do the best by you that he could, but to his own self-interest.

[MNG]

"Two people bargaining"

Hostile
1) Unfriendly
2) Antagonistic

Antagonistic

1)Showing or feeling active opposition

I SAID IT RIGHT THERE AGAIN BUT I'M TOO FUCKING STUPID TO REALIZE IT.

[MNG]

I ARGUE DEFINITIONS WITH DICTIONARIES!!!

I'M THAT PATHETIC AND ARROGANT!!!!!

[MNG]

Trying to get the best deal you can for youself is not "active opposition", so your connect the dots falls apart at the end.

[The Dictionary]

"Two people bargaining to reach the best deal they each respectively can gain from the bargain is not hostile."

Wrong.

[MNG]

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages"

It seems that the self-interested butcher's engaging in hostile negotiations with you over that service!

[heller]

Spoofer is retarded, two people reaching a mutual agreement is neither hostile by the common usage of the word, nor by any dictionary definition.

[heller]

two people reaching a mutual agreement is neither hostile by the common usage of the word, nor by any dictionary definition.

AND I SAY THIS DESPITE BEING GIVEN A DICTIONARY DEFINITION THAT PROVES ME IRREFUTABLY WRONG!!! I'M THAT FUCKING DUMB!!!

[heller]

two people reaching a mutual agreement is neither hostile by the common usage of the word, nor by any dictionary definition.

AND I SAY THIS DESPITE BEING GIVEN A DICTIONARY DEFINITION THAT PROVES ME IRREFUTABLY WRONG!!! I'M THAT FUCKING DUMB!!!

[heller]

Hostile
1) Unfriendly
2) Antagonistic

Antagonistic

1)Showing or feeling active opposition

I CAN'T READ!!!!

[heller]

Pretty sure that you're conflation of bargaining and "active opposition" in the definition of antagonistic is not "irrefutable."

Pretty sure that you are mentally imbalanced.

[heller]

Pretty sure that you're conflation of bargaining and "active opposition" in the definition of antagonistic is not "irrefutable."

I AM SO STUPID I ACTUALLY THINK TWO PEOPLE BARGAINING AREN'T IN ANY WAY IN OPPOSITION TO EACH OTHER!!!

STUPID ATTEMPTS TO AVOID ADMITTING I WAS WRONG ARE WHY I WAS LAUGHED AT FOR 2 HOURS FOR NOT GETTING THE JOKE!!!

I MAKE A CLAIM, GET SHUT THE FUCK UP BY A DICTIONARY, THEN ATTEMPT TO AVOID ADMITTING IT BY CLAIMING I CAN'T READ WORTH A FUCK!!!

[heller]

Pretty sure that you're(sic) conflation of bargaining and "active opposition"

I'M SO STUPID AND PATHETIC, THAT WHEN I'M WRONG I RELY ON CLAIMING YOU CONFLATED SOMETHING, DESPITE THE DICTIONARY TELLING ME I'M A LAIR!!!!

BARGAIN
1. To negotiate the terms of an agreement

NEGOTIATE
1.act between parties with a view to reconciling differences

DIFFERENCES
1.A point or way in which people or things are not the same.
2.The state or condition of being dissimilar or unlike.

OPPOSITION

1.A group of adversaries or competitors

THE DICTIONARY SAYS I'M WRONG TOO, EVEN AFTER MY STUPID ATTEMPT TO CLAIM CONFLATION. THAT WAS JUST MY GROSS, OVERWHELMING IGNORANCE AND EGO!!!

[heller]

AND NOW I'M GONNA RUN AWAY, BECAUSE I KNOW I'M WRONG, WHICH IS WHY THE BEST I COULD COME UP WITH WAS AN EASILY DISPROVEN CLAIM OF CONFLATION SHIT I DIDN'T KNOW THE ACTUAL DEFINITIONS OF!!!

(AND BY THE WAY JOSH, SHOULDN'T YOU BE TRYING TO RAISE SOME MONEY FOR CANCER YOU LAZY FUCK? I THOUGHT I BORED YOU, ARE YOU SO FUCKING LAZY THAT BEING BORED BY ME IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR CANCER MONEY OBLIGATIONS?)

[heller]

SERIOUSLY THOUGH, YOU'RE ON THE DEBATE TEAM? SERIOUSLY?

MAYBE SPEND LESS TIME WITH THOSE WHO BORE YOU AND MORE LEARNING HOW NOT TO GET YOUR ASS HANDED TO YOU IN A DEBATE.

LIKE YOU DID TODAY.

[heller]

nor by any dictionary definition.

I MAKE STUPID ABSOLUTE ASSERTIONS I'LL NEVER SUPPORT AND MAKE STUPID EXCUSES WHY I DON'T SUPPORT THEM!!!

[MNG]

WHEN I REALIZE THE DICTIONARY PROVED ME WRONG I CHANGE THE SUBJECT!!!!

[Jeffersonian]

Two people bargaining to reach the best deal they each respectively can gain from the bargain is not hostile.

It's capitalism.

I think he meant adversarial, not hostile. There is every reason to believe management will represent the shareholders' interests in negotiations with a union. That isn't the case with public sector unions, particularly where the "management" position is occupied by a Democrat.

There aren't many boards of directors elected by virtue of their internal unions' shareholders. That is manifestly not the case with public sector unions.

[Ring]

Business negotiations are constrained by competition. A business can't screw the taxpayer because they will lose the contract to a cheaper competitor.

Not so with a union monopoly.

[The Derider]

Since when are hard-nosed business negotiations "hostile"?

[since when are they not?]

[Almanian]

Is that what I said? No - as usual.

I love how you inevitably devolve to stupid as fuck Mung. I keep hoping
you won't, but you inevitably fall to "willfully misstate the clear intent of others' statements just to 'further the conversation' as I accuse others of doing."

In addition to also inevitably showing your utter ignorance of business whenever you talk about it, revealing your complete lack of experience in that area.

[Mary Stack]

I'd say there's at least a 50% chance you're going to get accused of being mary/the spoofer/anyone else MNG can think of to deflect the discussion with.

[MNG]

I said when people bargain they try to get the best deal for themselves they can. You said "no they tend to try to get the best deal for themselves around the margin." And I said "You go into business negotiations trying to get only what's marginally good for you?" Which is what you said...And you get all butthurt over that? WTF?

[MNG]

Unless you are saying "trying to get the best deal you can by screwing the other bargainer will result in him not doing future business with you in anger, or ruin him and therefore no future business." Sure,, but again, that's still trying to get the best you can, you just realize trying to get it in that way will not get you the best you can.

[Mary Stack]

"I said when people bargain they try to get the best deal for themselves they can. "

I CLAIM I SAID SOMETHING, AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID I'M SUCH A PIECE OF SHIT I'LL LIE AND SAY THEY'RE THE SAME!!!!

[Big Cat Kahuna]

"try to get the best deal for themselves around the margin." != "trying to get only what's marginally good for you"

Two very different notions.

[DarrenM.]

It's that the other side is not trying to get the best deal they can...

The 'other side' (taxpayers; and future taxpayers much less so) doesn't have any organized representation. This is true for every other special interest group, too, of course. We need a union for people who pay taxes and government laws to force people to contribute to that union, just like the public employee unions.

[F Hart]

any entity that does business with the goverment, try to get the best deal for themselves at the expense of the taxpayers?

Sure. But there's this thing called the "bid process" that usually occurs when the government procures vendors.

Christ.

[juris imprudent]

Govt workers already benefit from civil service regulations. Supposedly that and the virtually guaranteed employment are what distinguishes their employment conditions from private sector employees.

That said, it isn't just unionization per se that is disagreeable - as per FDR. It is the collection of dues that are used to fund campaigns of people that are beholden to them. If a corporation engaged in that kind of rent-seeking you would be screaming about it, and rightly I might add.

[mgd]

There's a huge distinction, and that is when the government--which should be an adversary in these negotiations--instead is a partner. Governments too frequently team with the public employee unions, giving them what they want at the bargaining table in exchange for support during election campaigns.

I'm not a Team Red fan, but it's not a stretch to say they are not the team normally in cahoots with public employee unions in screwing taxpayers.

[SIV]

The problem [with government workers] really is the unions

The problem with government workers is that they have jobs.

To the extent we need any government workers at all I propose we return to a patronage system where the bureaucrats are tossed out when their patron/party loses an election.

This reform would abolish government workers as a permanent class.

[MNG]

Yeah, those heady pre-civil service days were days in which the public fisc was so well managed!

[Cytotoxic]

Yeah, the days when America wasn't going bankrupt.

[Almanian]

HEY! You got one right! Well done!

[Jerryskids]

I have seen various explanations for why government workers do better than private sector employees - basically boiling down to the fact that government employees are more educated/qualified/specialized than private sector employees.

All I know is the empirical evidence - how many applicants per job opening do you see? That proves how desirable the jobs are. I have yet to see any government agency of any sort posting "help wanted" signs around, begging for people to apply for jobs. There are waiting lists for government jobs. There are books written on how to go about landing a government job, for God's sake. How much more proof would anybody need that government jobs are more desirable than private sector jobs?

[The Facts]

Because the government makes the requirement that to be a Clerk VI, you have to have a degree in something. Doesn't matter what the degree is in. Doesn't matter that for 20 years before the person doing the exact same job didn't require a degree. But they can say "Hey, we all have advanced degrees!!!1!!111"

[Jerryskids]

The worst are the teachers - they use the fact that they all have advanced degrees to argue that they deserve more money. First, the advanced degrees are worthless crap and second it is the teachers themselves who make the degrees a requirement of the job.

[Sevo]

See here:
"Oakland plan makes teachers compete for their jobs"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....1NSJ0C.DTL
And check the comments on how teachers really shouldn't be held accountable for what they do.
Strangely, that suggests we should be paying minimum wage, since they really do nothing other than ware-house the kids, but that contradiction is never obvious to those making the claims.

[The Derider]

Name one country with better educational outcomes than the US which pays their teachers at the absolute bottom of the pay scale.

[Cytotoxic]

Sweden, the rest of Scandinavia, the US private schools, etc

[Cytotoxic]

Not the bottom of the scale, but that's because those teachers actually do something useful.

[Jerryskids]

Estonia. Yes, Es-fucking-tonia.

Paying the existing teachers more money is not going to make them better teachers. Offering higher starting salaries might attract better students into teaching, allowing schools to attract better teachers. This is how most of the top countries do it - they have strict standards for teachers and hire only the best.

But the teachers unions are not going to allow for getting rid of overpaid crappy older teachers in favor of better paid better younger teachers.

Teachers should be paid well for well-done jobs, they should not be well paid in the hopes that they will do good jobs.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Paying the existing teachers more money is not going to make them better teachers. Offering higher starting salaries might attract better students into teaching, allowing schools to attract better teachers. This is how most of the top countries do it - they have strict standards for teachers and hire only the best.

And as Derider doesn't realize, this absolutely wouldn't work here because you'd have the usual suspects screaming "DAS RACIS/SEXIS/HETERONORMATIVE!!!!" crying about "equal opportunity" and other bullshit buzzwords to hire and retain mediocrity.

The bureaucratic rot's already overtaken the public school system, it's just a question of when the edifice comes apart.

[Brandon]

Actually, the top-rated comment on that story is this:

Get rid of tenure PERIOD. No one should be guaranteed a job, the guarantee of a job should be due to your work, and success not because you've managed to get tenure.

We want the BEST in our schools NOT the oldest.

Amazingly as I never thought I'd say this but GOOD JOB OAKLAND!!

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....z1quRRNjd0

Progress?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I was wondering whether it would be Mary or MNG to beshit the weekend thread first.

[John, aka Patient #4]

What am I, chopped government worker?

[heller, schmeller]

What am I, a loser narcissist?

[heller]

Pretty much.

[heller, schmeller]

I know you are, but what am I?

[juris imprudent]

Well blame me, I was the one that said something about it and called forth the demon.

[Catch-22 Joseph Heller]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[dissertation]

Good!@

[heller]

Mary get a new act, the whole obsessive stalker/spoofer thing is overplayed. You're really pathetic.

How's the writing going?

[Quote]

"get a new act"

Hahahahahahahaha!

[heller]

How's the writing going?

I AM SO BORED BY YOU I SEEK YOUR COMPANY!!!

[shrike]

8 bit google maps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg

[shrike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rznYifPHxDg

[shrike]

8 bit google maps!

[Sevo]

MNG|3.31.12 @ 4:14PM|#
..."For that matter, "trying to get the best deal for themselves at the expense of the other side", wouldn't that fairly describe any business bargain?"

I'll presume you're being sincere here.
Yes, but one very great difference, at least at the local level, is that those supposedly negotiating for the taxpayers are either elected at the pleasure of the unions or appointed by those who are. Pretty clear conflict of interest.
Briefly, the taxpayer (the customer; one of the supposed negotiators) has no representation.

[heller]

Get control of yourself Mary. You're showing everyone what a crazy bitch you are.

[Mad Mary]

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

[Catch-22 Joseph Heller]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[Ryan]

Thanks for the lecture, Adrian (and Reason Foundation).

[heller]

I'm guessing Mary got banned considering she stopped posting and started sending me emails about how she's going to tell on me.

[Hi!]

By the way, I think it's awesome that you can dox someone yourself, but think you're above it.

It's exactly the kind of person you seem to be.

[Hi!]

And dragging warty, epi, ans sugarfree into your mess, that just tops it.

Exactly the kind of thing to expect from you, a scared little boy.

SO awesome.

[Mary]

I wash myself with a rag on a stick.

[Hi!]

You guessed wrong.

You also sound really scared in your emails, and seem to actually be scared, as evidenced by your rush to come here and share.

We're done little fella.

[heller]

Why would I be scared when you sent me proof that you lied?

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Mat Drunksky wrote:
Hey man, I forwarded all your efforts to out rectal, and the subsequent harassing of Mary Stack that you encouraged after you began to think that she was rectal.

You sent me that at 7:56 PM, so if you were telling the truth you would have sent Brandeis an email before 7:56 PM. But the email fragment you sent me is timestamped at 8:26 PM, long after you told me you had sent it:

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Mat Drunksky wrote:
One of your students, Joshua Heller, is responsible for...

Haha, you can't even make shit up right, dumb bitch.

[Hi!]

"Why would I be scared when you sent me proof that you lied?"

I sent you proof of forwarding your followups.

You can't even read email right. LOL.

Have a nice day.

[Hi!]

Honestly, for someone who claims not to have anything to worry about you're totally freaking out.

[heller]

And I'm not worried, I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself. Why can't you get that through your thick skull?

[Hi!]

"And I'm not worried"

Of course not, lol.

[heller]

If they were forwards after the first email, then why did you start with that introduction "one of your students..."?

Keep lying badly, dumb bitch.

[HI!]

Meh, I guess it was a cut and paste error. I did edit it for you...

Good luck, you seem like you're going to need it.

[Hi!]

Meh, I guess it was a cut and paste error. I did edit it for you...

Good luck, you seem like you're going to need it.

"Keep lying badly, dumb bitch."

Wow, I really got to you, lol.

[Hi!]

Meh, I guess it was a cut and paste error. I did edit it for you...

Good luck, you seem like you're going to need it.

"Keep lying badly, dumb bitch."

Wow, I really got to you, lol.

[Hi!]

Also, I love that you're completely freaking out over this, and staking your claim on a timestamp.

lol. you are really scared.

[Catch-22 Joseph Heller]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[Brandeis University]

You're fucked Mr. Heller.

[Hi!]

Not me, but awesome.

[Dr. Concerned]

Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?

[HI heller!]

"Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?"

"Not me"

Nothing to worry about then, but you seem to have reading trouble heller.

Don't be so uptight heller, you were certain you had nothing to be afraid of.

[HI heller!]

Also, it's humorous that you've been reduced to spluttering "dumb bitch" over and over.

For someone that pretends a level of eloquence he doesn't have, watching you get reduced to a blubbering puddle of "I ain't skeered!" was fantastic.

Thanks, seriously.

[Hi heller!]

Also, it's humorous that you've been reduced to spluttering "dumb bitch" over and over.

For someone that pretends a level of eloquence he doesn't have, watching you get reduced to a blubbering puddle of "I ain't skeered!" was fantastic.

Thanks, heller, seriously.

[HI heller!]

Also, it's humorous that you've been reduced to spluttering "dumb bitch" over and over.

For someone that pretends a level of eloquence he doesn't have, watching you get reduced to a blubbering puddle of "I ain't skeered!" was fantastic.

Thanks, heller, seriously.

[Dr. Concerned]

Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself and then trying to deny that you were talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?

[WTF?]

"Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?"

"Not me"

Nothing to worry about then, but you seem to have reading trouble heller.

Don't be so uptight heller, you were certain you had nothing to be afraid of.

[HI heller!]

"Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?"

"Not me"

Nothing to worry about then, but you seem to have reading trouble heller.

Don't be so uptight heller, you were certain you had nothing to be afraid of.

[HI Heller!]

"Miss, do you realize that talking to yourself is a sign of mental illness?"

"Not me"

Nothing to worry about then, but you seem to have reading trouble heller.

Don't be so uptight heller, you were certain you had nothing to be afraid of.

[Dr. Concerned]

Denying that you're talking to yourself when it's obvious to everyone around you is a sign of mental illness, Mary.

[HI Heller!]

Dr. Concerned

Heller, do you realize that pretending to be a doctor on the internet because you can't come up with anything better to troll someone with is a sign of mental illness?

[Dr. Concerned]

No it isn't.

[HI Heller!]

Heller, do you realize that pretending to be a doctor on the internet because you can't come up with anything better to troll someone with is a sign of mental illness, and that denying that it is a mental illness is a mental illness?

[The Derider]

Talking to yourself is not, in itself, a sign of mental illness.

[DesigNate]

It's not till you answer back. Amirite?

[Hi heller!]

Also, it's humorous that you've been reduced to spluttering "dumb bitch" over and over.

For someone that pretends a level of eloquence he doesn't have, watching you get reduced to a blubbering puddle of "I ain't skeered!" was fantastic.

Thanks, heller, seriously.

[Say HI to heller!]

That's a tiny little box you got there.

And dick in a box stopped being funny... well as soon as it was done.

http://www.facebook.com/joshua.....all&v=wall

[HI heller!]

That is a wonderfully comprehensive list of people to inform of your misogynist ranting and doxxing.

I'm sure your mom will be super happy you did it with your school email address too.

[Dr. Concerned]

What's my mother's name, Mary?

[HI Heller!]

Dr. Concerned

Heller, do you realize that pretending to be a doctor on the internet because you can't come up with anything better to troll someone with is a sign of mental illness?

[Dr. Concerned]

What is my mother's name? Come on you said you have a list, surely you have her name?

[HI Heller!]

I mean, you're a bunch of Jews, you honestly think Etan isn't going to mention it?

[HI Heller!]

Why are you freaking out guy?

You said you got nothing to hide.

[Dr. Concerned]

Hm, you're the one who is constantly posting, grasping at straws. I already know my facebook page isn't visible to people I don't know, so why would I freak out?

[HI Heller!]

so why would I freak out?

You tell me, you're the one doing it.

I suspect it's because you know I have it.

[Dr. Concerned]

You don't have it, you named some random person as my relative. Plus I've had my facebook hidden from public view since day one. God you're dumb.

[Heller proved he's my bitch]

You don't have it

Yeah, you've said that like a dozen times already.

Seems that if you don't care, you'd just let me send them messages.

You DO care. Ergo...

[Dr. Concerned]

you'd just let me send them messages.

Honey I've told you to send the messages already. Do it, you crazy bitch.

[heller proved he's a liar too]

It's not you right?

LOL. Cower coward.

[Mary "proven not crazy" Stack]

heller proved it by responding to me. Ipso facto I am not crazy.

[heller proved he's a liar too]

That's great, nothing to do with me though heller.

And it's so awesome that you screech about someone else's crazy while ejaculating yours all over the board.

LOL.

[HI Heller!]

Dunno, just figured one of your other relatives on there would mention it.

I mean, there's a couple hundred people there, many of which are your relatives, it'll filter down to her.

That, and the school stuff will be a fun time for you.

[Dr. Concerned]

Name one relative. One.

[HI Heller!]

Why are you freaking out guy?

You said you got nothing to hide.

[HI Heller!]

I mean, you're a bunch of Jews, you honestly think Etan isn't going to mention it?

[Dr. Concerned]

Who?

[HI Heller!]

Etan Heller, University of Chicago.

Did you not know that?

LOL, you're seriously scared now.

[Dr. Concerned]

Haha you don't have my facebook page, I knew it.

[HI Heller!]

"Haha you don't have my facebook page, I knew it."

It took a dialogue? You couldn't just check the link in the post just above the one you replied to?

You're THAT stupid?

And scared?

[HI Heller!]

I pretty obviously DO have it, and you're wigging out about it.

[Dr. Concerned]

Why would I click on a link that you posted? Dumb bitch.

And since you can't name any of my relatives, I know you don't have my page. My page isn't even visible to non-friends you retard.

[HI Heller!]

"Why would I click on a link that you posted?"

To facebook? That said it was your facebook? When you're trying to figure out if it is your facebook?

You're seriously asking that?

"And since you can't name any of my relatives, I know you don't have my page. My page isn't even visible to non-friends you retard."

Then you really have nothing to worry when I forward everything to them.

Yet here you are protesting WAY too much.

[HI Heller!]

I mean, the link is clearly labeled RIGHT THERE, so the only reason for a dialogue is because you're scared and are trying to throw me off.

[Dr. Concerned]

Sure, whatever. That's my facebook page. Send that guy plenty of messages, I'll definitely answer them.

[HI Heller!]

I'm not sending YOU anything, I already told you that.

And I love that you realize you were freaking out and are trying to pretend it's nothing.

Jesus, you're REALLY afraid.

LOL.

[Dr. Concerned]

Um... OK send whoever whatever. I'm sure they will have a fun time figuring out why some random person is sending them a bunch of nonsense. Do it already, you're such a bore.

[HI Heller!]

9 posts denying it now.

You are very scared.

[HI Heller!]

Do it already, you're such a bore.

And yet, here you are denying it a half dozen times in as many minutes.

You keep coming back to something you claim is boring. Makes as much sense as grilling me about the link when you know already it's you.

[HI Heller!]

If it really wasn't you, you'd have kept your mouth shut, since you have already proven you don't care if the wrong guy gets messages.

You're scared as fuck and it's obvious.

[Dr. Concerned]

Why would I have kept my mouth shut? Then no one would know what a dumbass you are?

Whatever I do just reinforces your little fantasy, but I like where it's going.

[heller proved he's my bitch]

Why would I have kept my mouth shut?

LOL.

[HI Heller!]

I mean, 8 posts in 10 minutes by you denying it's you.

While you make up a stupid excuse for not checking the link.

While freaking out.

Reap/sow etc.

[Dr. Concerned]

Wow Mary. Wow. You actually think I'm scared because you're threatening to send a bunch of random people messages? It's fucking hilarious watching you jump around. Every response brings a new level of insanity and self-conceit. Seek help after you get tired of making yourself look stupid.

[Heller proved he's my bitch]

You actually think I'm scared because you're threatening to send a bunch of random people messages?

Nope, I know you're scared because I'm going to send people you know messages.

That's why you've spent the last 20 minutes trying to convince me it's not you.

[Dr. Concerned]

I haven't been trying to convince you. You can't convince someone as insane as you are that they are insane. All I can do is point and laugh.

[heller proved he's a liar too]

I haven't been trying to convince you.

I know you don't have my page.

Sure, whatever. That's my facebook page. Send that guy plenty of messages, I'll definitely answer them.

etc.

God damn you're afraid.

[heller]

It's not my facebook, and I don't care if you send them messages, that's why I've posted a dozen times to tell you it's not me.

LOL

[Dr. Concerned]

Yes, and if I didn't post then that would also be proof that it was me, because I would be too embarrassed to respond! Right, crazy?

[heller proved he's a liar too]

Yes, and if I didn't post then that would also be proof that it was me, because I would be too embarrassed to respond! Right, crazy?

Nope.

Keep proving you're "not trying to convince me".

[Dr. Concerned]

But if I wasn't pointing out how stupid you are, maybe I would just be using reverse psychology to make you think you're wrong.

Uh oh, Mary, do you need some time to think about that one?

[heller proved he's a liar too]

The fuck do I care?

If it is you win, if it isn't, it's small amount of time lost.

[heller proved he's a liar too]

See this is awesome cause it's obvious what happened.

You realized I DID have your facebook, and totally freaked out.

You read the post, clicked the link, even though the reference to the photo was all you needed, and completely lost it.

The BEST method you could come up with for damage control was the abortion you splattered all over the place for the last half hour or so.

It failed. LOL.

[Dr. Concerned]

Keep spinning yourself in circles, Mary.

But you're not crazy!

[heller proved he's a liar too]

And you're not in that facebook link.

I see why you're so concerned now doc. LOL

[heller]

THAT'S NOT ME!!!

I'M NOT CRAZY, EVEN THOUGH I JUST SPENT THE LAST HALF HOUR INSISTING IT WASN'T ME FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON!!!

I DO NOT PROTEST TOO MUCH!!!!

LOL.

[Adam Walsh]

This is like the worst chat room ever.

[Catch-22 Joseph Heller]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[Sevo]

Sorry to interrupt a cat fight:
"New plan chops cost of high-speed rail system"
From the copy:
"The financial plan, Richard said, counts on winning more federal funding - despite congressional disinterest in high-speed rail - as well as selling development rights around stations and along the railroad line."
IOWs, the CA HSR folks invented new numbers hoping the new lies won't be busted by folks who can read.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/......DTL&tsp=1

[Warty]

Damn, heller. Good work making her freak out this badly.

How come you never email me threats, Mary? Come on. You hurt my feelings.

[heller]

you don't matter

"Good work making her freak out this badly."

20 times it's not me!!!!

lol.

[Warty]

Scared little boy.

and you wonder why you don't matter...

[Warty]

Threats, Mary, you stupid cunt. I only want threats out of you.

[Sheeeeeit]

if this gon' be that kinda party i'ma stick my dick in the mashed potatoes

[shrike]

Politics:

http://www.cracked.com/photopl.....ensorship/

Yeah thats about it

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shrike]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PapayaSF]

*Sigh.* I was hoping that Recent Events had either gotten our annoying troll banned, or had convinced her to drop her sabotage campaign. No such luck....

[Tim]

You should get "reasonable" and chrome, ignore is absolutely necessary these days.

Ignore MNG, ignore Heller/ Doc concern, ignore super troll (admittedly harder) and the thread loses about
80? of the stupid.

[Groovus Maximus]

That stinks about MNG, as he is fun to discuss with the topic at hand, from time to time.

I may not be a fan of the Utilitarian ethos, but MNG's never at a loss for words.

Oh well, scroll still works and it's not nearly as bad as the Occupy Reason nonsense of last year, though the superfluous nonsense is a PITA.

[dunphy]

wow.just WOW!!!!

Erik Wemple (Washington Post)reports:

NBC told this blog today that it would investigate its handling of a piece on the "Today" show that ham-handedly abridged the conversation between George Zimmerman and a dispatcher in the moments before the death of Trayvon Martin. A statement from NBC:

"We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story."

Here's what appears to be the Today show's version of what Zimmerman said:

Zimmerman:This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black.

Here's what appears to be the actual 911 transcript:

Zimmerman:This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something.It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher:OK, and this guy ? is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:He looks black.

[dunphy]

oh, from...

http://volokh.com/2012/04/01/n.....qus_thread

[BWAHAHA he took them down]

BWAHAHAHAA

The Heller on facebook from brandeis that isn't our heller took his photos down just now.

BWAHAHAAHAHAHHHAHHAH

IT'S TOTALLY A CONCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN THIS SHIT TO MOM!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!

[BWAHAHAHAH HE TOOK THEM DOWN]

BWAHAHAHAHAH

THE HELLER ON FACEBOOK THAT ISN'T OUR HELLER JUST TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR MOMMY!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAH

[HELLER TOOK THEM DOWN!!!!]

BWAHAHAHAHAH

THE HELLER ON FACEBOOK THAT ISN'T OUR HELLER JUST TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR MOMMY!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAH

[HELLER TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN!!!]

BWAHAHAHAHAH

THE HELLER ON FACEBOOK THAT ISN'T OUR HELLER JUST TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR MOMMY!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAH

[HELLER TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN]

BWAHAHAHAHAH

THE HELLER ON FACEBOOK THAT ISN'T OUR HELLER JUST TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR MOMMY!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAH

[HELLER TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN]

BWAHAHAHAHAH

THE HELLER ON FACEBOOK THAT ISN'T OUR HELLER JUST TOOK HIS PHOTOS DOWN.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

I BET YOU CAN'T WAIT TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR MOMMY!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAH

[HE SAYS HE'S LIBERTARIAN]

BWAHAHAHHHAHA

YOU FORGOT TO TAKE YOUR TIMELINE DOWN!!!

BWAHAHAHHAHA

IT'S A GUY WITH THE SAME NAME AT THE SAME SCHOOL WHO IS ALSO A LIBERTARIAN RIGHT?

BWAHAHHWWHAHA

IT'S TOTALLY A COINCIDENCE!!!

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOUR MOM IS GOING TO BE FUCKING PISSED.

BWAHAHAHAHHHHHAHHAH!!!!

[BWAHAHAHAHA]

"You sent me that at 7:56 PM"

YEAH, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, YOU CLAIMED THE EMAIL ADDRESS "[e-mail]" ISN'T YOU AND YOU DON'T GO TO BRANDEIS.

APPARENTLY YOU DON'T REALIZE HOW STUPID YOU LOOK CLAIMING THAT WHILE REPLYING TO AN EMAIL SENT THERE.

IT'S MAGIC!!! AN EMAIL ADDRESS YOU CLAIM ISN'T YOURS SOMEHOW MANAGED TO STILL GO TO YOU.

I BET YOU'VE PEED YOURSELF AND CRIED.

[I cry alot.]

John|4.1.12 @ 8:53AM|#

I hope the Reason regulars makes Ms. Stack's life just a little bit more miserable than it already is...

Free Market Misery. More effective than even Teh Gummit.

[stones]

Apparently they are succeeding.

[Market WIN WIN!]

[Catch-22 Joseph Heller]

Material from the Joseph Heller Collection at Brandeis University is on display in the Archives & Special Collections Department to mark the 50th anniversary of the publication of Heller's seminal novel 'Catch-22.'

http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2011/september/catch22.html

[Who is Mary Stack's lover?]

Susan Lovett
Abraham S. and Gertrude Burg Professor of Microbiology
Email: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Office: Rosenstiel, 337

Joan Press, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Biology
Email: [e-mail]
Telephone [phone] (Office)
Office Rosenstiel 511

White Indian|8.16.11 @ 9:52PM|#
...you're the microbiologist who thought nuclear weapons were one of...

heller|8.16.11 @ 10:26PM|#
...I was referring to...

[sticks]

This shit is weird.

[joseph heller at brandeis]

That's some catch, that Catch-22.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....atch22.jpg

[John]

I see after being gone for a week, things have not changed. A couple of things.

1. In answer to the other thread, I am not Charlotte Corday (although that is a great handle). I have not posted on here in over a week because I was on the road for my job.

2. I am told by the Reason staff that registration is just around the corner. Until we get registration, I am not going to post on here. I have posted on here for a long time. I like the people on here and I like the board.

[John]

But, this Mary Stack person is a complete lunatic. She is the kind of person who is just sane enough not to be locked up. But still crazy and miserable and intent on making everyone around her nuts. She is the kind of person that if you were unlucky enough to live next door to her, she would poison your dogs because she thought your fence was too high. You just hope you can avoid people like that. There is no way they are changing. And while this is a good board, if posting here means being screamed at by a lunatic, there are other boards.

And if anyone doesn't believe that this is me or thinks this is a spoof, ask Sugar Free. I told him in an email last week that I wasn't posting until they got registration. In the mean time, I hope the Reason regulars makes Ms. Stack's life just a little bit more miserable than it already is, if that is even possible.

["more miserable"]

Wow

The Right Wing's Goal:

More Misery for Others.

No wonder they feel the need to beg forgiveness so much in their churches on Sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZL3POaATn8

[Wow]

Looks like John underestimated how horrible and nasty you are. You really must hate him.

["dear john...."]

[Joey Lawrence]

Mary Stack is a complete lunatic...

She would poison your dogs...

I hope the Reason regulars makes Ms. Stack's life just a little bit more miserable than it already is...

Whoa.

[John]

At some point soon we will have registration and that will at least slow her down. At some point she will have some kind of a break down or suicide attempt and then go away for a while. But until Reason at least slows her down, it is just a waste of time to post on here.

[crybaby]

Bullies are always crybabies.

It's What's the Matter with Kansas.

[john talks to himself alot]

if it weren't for me replying, he might think nobody listens to him

he's probably crying again

http://struckbyenlightning.fil.....ndian1.jpg

["MORE MISERABLE"]

The Invisible Hand in action.

Deal with it.

[MQ-9 Reaper]

Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same. ~Job 4:8

For whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap. ~Galatians 6:7

Helicopter predator drone parenting. It's here.

[ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ]

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

[stones]

So much crazy in one thread. I don't know who John is, but he should look into a restraining order.

[He's what's the matter with KS]

right-wing-nutterism with a masquerade of "liberty"

[stones]

And you are nuts. He seems to have you figured out.

[crazy is contagious]

C
O
N
T
A
G
I
O
N

[Infected with Fibertarianism]

I
N
F
E
C
T
I
O
N

[More Miserable]

John|4.1.12 @ 8:53AM|#

I hope the Reason regulars makes [a woman's] life just a little bit more miserable than it already is...

Of course they can!!!

Only the free market can provide "more miserable" better than Teh Gummit.

[stones]

He seems to know how to push your buttons. I wonder if he is a psychologist or something.

[still posting, John?]

even though you said you wouldn't?

Fibertards always lie.

It's why they're F1Bertarian.

[stones]

You think everyone is him don't you? You ran him off apparently. You should be happy.

[oh a Fibertarian butt buddy]

like the Bobbsey Twins or some shit

[Fluffy]

So I guess now that there's a huge open can of crazy freaking out that Mary was outed, that constitutes verification that Mary was WI?

Because that was still being denied last time I looked.

[NEVER MIND WHAT I SIGNED]

"I disavow." ~Newt Paul

[Pretty much]

I'd say it's been confirmed that not only is she every single one of those trolls, but that's actually her real identity as well.

[Pretty much]

That is, the name and physical address and such.

Also, 80+ comments in this thread. What a crazy fuck.

[Pretty Much]

She is the source of all of the trolls and all of the grief on this site. Reason isn't that well known of a site. So it is unlikely to attract the attention of the Moby's. And even if it did, they would post racist stuff and try to pin it on Libertarians.

No, there is one person who is responsible for all of this.

[Griefer #6]

Keep comforting yourself that everybody except a few market fundamentalist faithful think that fibertarianism is really crazy shit.

In reality, I can't believe how well other griefers take over when I'm gone.

It's the invisible hand spanking the f1bertards.

[Sure]

Whatever you say Mary.

[Sure]

Whatever you say F1BirTard.

[stones]

There seems to be little doubt about that. And apparently, everyone who posts here is really someone named John. Every day the crazy hits a new high.

[Don't trust the free market?]

Should we clamp down on The Invisible Hand?

[Buster Bluth]

Don't say Hand!

[Protocols of the Elders of KS]

Koch is what's the matter with Kansas.

[Native Kansan]

There is nothing the matter with Kansas other than the heat, the cold, the drought, the flooding, tornadoes, hail, Garden City, brown recluse spiders, black widows, various poisonous snakes, tweakers, K-State, mosquitoes, chiggers (it's an itch mite), swarms of cicadas, locusts, Westboro Baptists, wind, humidity, and insane amounts of aeroallergens. But do drop in for the hospitality, hunting (upland game, white-tailed deer, water fowl), fishing, and BBQ.

[Clamp the Invisible Hand!]

Help, it's spanking my Fibertard Ass!

[?ber Competitor]

Why can't the self styled ?ber competitors compete here with any competence?

[DesigNate]

Omg, seriously. What kind of person goes on to a website to ruin every comment thread because they don't like a few people? If the goal was to force registration, that is an asshole thing to do to all the people that haven't given you grief. Just ignore the people you don't like and talk to the rest of the posters.

[nobody can ignore the WI]

sorry, but it just isn't possible

[Pretty Much]

John had her nailed above. She is the kind of person who poisons her neighbor's dog because the fence is too high. She seems to focus on John and Episiarch and Sugar Free. But when someone is that deranged, they always focus on someone.

In the thread yesterday there was a big rant at MNG about how she tried to engage him and he was just too dishonest. So, now that John has left, she will focus her hate one someone else.

[john again?]

I thought you weren't posting anymore, John.

[Pretty Much]

You really are obsessed with John aren't you? You really are going to think every poster is him from now on. No wonder you hated him so much. He really had you pegged.

[john again?]

I thought you weren't posting anymore, John.

[Hint]

It's all one person!

Think Lindbergh Kidnapping, the Lufthansa Heist, D.B. Cooper...

That's how awesome it is!

[CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES]

FREE MARKET = CRIMINAL ACTIVITY

Koch brothers skirt U.S. law with secret Iran sales

Officials have also fixed prices, lied to regulators, broken pollution laws

By Asjylyn Loder And David Evans, Bloomberg News October 4, 2011

"I uncovered the practices within a few days," Egorova-Farines says. "They were not hidden at all."

"Those activities constitute violations of criminal law," Koch Industries wrote in a Dec. 8, 2008, letter giving details of its findings. The letter was made public in a civil court ruling in France in September 2010; the document has never before been reported by the media.

[John is one of the Kochs]

I just know it.

[force registration]

force it
force it!
force it in!

[Joey Lawrence]

This is like the worst chat room ever.

Whoa.

[Invisible Hand spank Fibertard]

The sky was the limit?until the free market rained on Fred's parade...to teach the young Koch how the laissez-faire business model worked in the real world.

A People's History of Koch Industries: How Stalin Funded the Tea Party Movement
http://exiledonline.com/a-peop.....-movement/

[Shut the fuck up John]

I know it is you.

[MORE MISERABLE]

John|4.1.12 @ 8:53AM|#

I hope the Reason regulars makes Ms. Stack's life just a little bit MORE MISERABLE than it already is...

New, Improved!
Free Market Misery.
More effective than even Teh Gummit.
Free Demonstration Today.

[Linus]

That's what anarchy is all about, Charlie Brown.

[Feel the anarchy.]

EMBRACE THE SUCK

[Linus]

Reason.com has been reluctant to introduce commentator registration because, to do so, will be an admission that the concept of open forums (i.e. anarchy) doesn't work. Anarchy (in theory) is a cherished belief, a utopia, amongst many so-called "libertarians," but this forum is a perfect example, an actual lab experiment, of how anarchy fails in practice.

Shorter analysis: you reap what you sow.

[Mary Stack]

In contrast has a strict registration and moderation system of all of her fake sites including the old rather blog. She enjoys shitting on other people's lawn. But makes sure no one ever shits in hers.

[Fibertard hypocrite]

Fibertard hypocrites love to take advantage of the publicly funded services claims to hate. They use the anonymity of the citizenship provided internet to harass and bully people and indulge in their various mental illnesses.

[Linus]

[Mary Stack] has a strict registration and moderation system

And Reason.com, according to "John," is about to emulate it.
How painful is that to the resident anarchists here?

[Mary Stack Reason Registration]

Please contribute to the Mary Stack Memorial Reason Registration Fund.

[Mary Stack]

Loves to take advantage of the civilization she claims to hate. She uses the anonymity of the civilization provided internet to harass and bully people and indulge in her various mental illnesses. She has been banned from every site on the net. And has now been reduced to shitting in the one lawn left that isn't fenced.

[Shut the fuck up John]

I know it is you.

[Fibertard hypocrite]

Fibertard hypocrites love to take advantage of the publicly funded services claims to hate. They use the anonymity of the citizenship provided internet to harass and bully people and indulge in their various mental illnesses. They has been banned from every site on the net. And has now been reduced to shitting in the one lawn left that isn't fenced.

[Shut the fuck up John]

Thought you were not posting here anymore?

[Fibertard hypocrite]

Fibertard hypocrites love to take advantage of the publicly funded services claims to hate. They use the anonymity of the citizenship provided internet to harass and bully people and indulge in their various mental illnesses. They has been banned from every site on the net. And has now been reduced to shitting in the one lawn left that isn't fenced.

[Linus]

LOL

[Mary Stack]

Is certifiably insane, probably a paranoid schizophrenic. She thinks that going onto someone else's board and attacking people means that those people are bullying her and attacking her. It is the classic kind of projection paranoids engage in. And is the kind of insanity that can't be faked, even by professionals.

[Linus]

Why do you keep responding to it?
That's...well, insane.

[sigh]

this forum is a perfect example, an actual lab experiment, of how anarchy fails in practice.

In the immortal words of o3, "It tries moar harder"

[DesigNate]

Damn, I hit refresh and our resident primitivist showed up to carpet bomb the thread too. Hi WI.

[Shut the fuck up John]

I know it is you.

[DesigNate]

Okay, now that is just funny.

And no, I'm not John.

[Shut the fuck up John]

That is what you say. Fibertard!!!

[Linus]

What's funny is how the Crazy Person says everyone is John and John says everyone is the Crazy Person.

[Shut the fuck up John]

Stop pretending you are not here.

[Linus]

LOL

[MORE MISERABLE]

John|4.1.12 @ 8:53AM|#
I hope the Reason regulars makes Ms. Stack's life just a little bit MORE MISERABLE than it already is...

you no likee The Invisible Hand spanking your libertard ass?

[John is one of the Kochs]

I just know it.

[Fibertard hypocrite]

Fibertard hypocrites love to take advantage of the publicly funded services claims to hate. They use the anonymity of the citizenship provided internet to harass and bully people and indulge in their various mental illnesses.

[DesigNate]

You do realize that the Internet is available to non citizens right? Have you not noticed how many cauckistanians we have here?

[offcuff]

Chapter 9.

[.]

The internet sure is something. Don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this, in reality. Someday, there will be a word for it.

[Rhet Orical]

Someday, there will be a word for it.

"Anarchy."

Isn't it lovely?

[.]

You appear to believe you're making some kind of point.

[Rhet Orical]

Get back to me when you have something substantive to say.

[.]

I did, already. Your response was incoherent, indicating a failure to grasp either the concept you referenced, the context in which you referenced it, or both. Which was not unpredictable - but then, I was originally writing about you, and not to you.

Scanning through what went on here over the previous week or so, though, I must thank you for your contribution to an oddly-entertaining afternoon's reading.

[PapayaSF]

We could deal with Mary Stack with a Slashdot-style comment moderation system, allowing people to vote on the quality of comments and set a viewing threshold. That would still allow anonymous comments, but they start at a lower score than comments made by people who are registered.

I don't mind registration too much, but it will probably kill joke handles, which are a regular source of good laughs.

(When not abused by the rude and insane Mary Stack, at least. What is really up with her? Did a libertarian once screw her and never call her again? Does she get paid by Media Matters? What turned her from a slightly-cranky commenter circa 2009 into the relentless monster she is today? She needs a new dildo or something else to occupy her time.)

[Rocket J. Squirrel]

allowing people to vote on the quality of comments

That trick never works!

[Nooge]

Is Breaking Bad any good? I'm considering going on a Netflix binge like I did with Dexter.

[RyanXXX]

It's very good, one of the best shows on TV. Better writing than Dexter

[Bee Tagger]

Yes. I don't think it's as immediately engaging as Dexter but ultimately much better once you get immersed in it.

[Rats]

Follow me!

[heller]

We have!

[lioNJ]

The introduction to this talk reveals that the rest of the talk will be so uninformed and inaccurate that I am unable to listen to the rest of it. I am very disappointed that it appears here after very recently listening to very intelligent talks by Sam Harris who I understand is a founder. It would nearly take a book for me to correct just the first few minutes of the introduction which I will not do here. I'm appalled at the sloppiness of thought just in that introduction.

[emily12]

New Era Hats
"it is released by http://www.hatbrandshop.com/ 2012.06.015"

[Victoria]

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[John, aka Patient #4]

You go, girl!

[heller]

You're boring Mary. It's hard to get angry at a pathetic middle aged woman who gets plastic surgery because she's insecure about her downy looks.

*yawn*

heller is an idiot, and proves it virtually every time he posts