Ron Paul

First Moonbase Primary Open Thread


The only moonbase this country ever needs.

Will Gingrich fly us to the Moon? 

Will Romney continue the paddling of Newt's plump ass he delivered in the last debate? 

Will Santorum froth? 

Will Wolf Blitzer give any air time to [OTHER CANDIDATE]? 

Some recent coverage might help you puzzle out these and other questions: 

Ron Paul polling in dead last in the Sunshine State. (Which he is very openly not campaigning in.) 

Reason/Rupe polling on why Newt Gingrich (Newt Gingrich!) is ahead

Why Romneycare sucks

Newt! In Space! 

Did we mention that Ron Paul is avoiding the sunbirds

And when will someone think of the SuperPACS

For all other questions, speak up in the comments. 

Update: Well it's vaguely surprising that they got into an argument where each one claimed to be less anti-immigrant. 

Ron Paul just scored a decent point: Obama's Latin America policy is "abysmal" because it's exactly the same as previous Latin America policy.

Too bad the Latin America thread is dying down without anybody bringing up the War On Drugs. 

8:30: Whether government contributed to the housing bubble: Another question on which only Ron Paul can speak intelligently. (Which is no guarantee that he will.) 

8:32: Looks like the show of hands was pretty underwhelming when Gingrich used the "Do you know anybody who's been foreclosed" ploy.

8:34: Gingrich's trying to wriggle out of his Freddie Mac historiographical lobbying is shameless. 

Some people say Shakespeare is the greatest writer of all time, but I say it's Mae and Ira Freeman.

8:36: Ron Paul got the first big round of applause by saying he's not interested in Romrich's GSE entanglements. Does that mean everybody's bored by the GSEs, or do they just like hearing about the Fed? 

8:39: Blitz Wolfschmidt promises space after the commercials. I wasn't just teasing with the title of this thread!

8:40: Jesus H. Christmas, Wolf, Romney's taxes? 

8:43: Romney is making Gingrich look like a tool, I think. 

8:45: Debates are so much better with a raucous audience. The spectacle of an establishment media dinosaur like Blitzer trying to keep the conversation on trivialities, and getting booed by a bunch of voters, give me hope for this country. 

8:49: A little common sense for Blitz von Wolfsschanze: If you have to tell people "This is substance," it's not substance. 

8:51: Hey, Ron Paul, I want to repeal the 16th Amendment too. Let's talk! 

8:53: Paul gets a great point out of the medical records follies: We really do have age discrimination laws, and they really are ridiculous. 

8:55: Paul got the laugh line, but Romney made the best point: A moonbase would be ruinously expensive. 

9:02: Oh by the way, now's a great time to read Reason's Special Space Issue, on newsstands now! 

9:11: With his Romneycare attack, Santorum stumbles into the strongest case against Romney: that he has no leg to stand on against President Obama. 

9:15: There's a real problem with Romney's argument that the people of Massachusetts like Romneycare by "about three to one." That's the exact problem with Social Security, Medicare, Defense, and so on. They're cancers on the economy but the voters will never get rid of them. 

9:20: Folks, I have met Carlos Gutierrez, and he is so unimpressive that even in a crowd of unimpressive people he stands out as more unimpressive than most. 

9:23: O Jesus, Wolf, the First Lady? The Queen of America? This is your "substance"?

9:25: From the Twitter feed of one Mary Mauldin: "I would love for Newt to say let's talk about Fast&Furious, Solyndra, Keystone anything…but these obnoxious questions." I'd love for anybody to bring these up. 

9:28: Can we pass an amendment to outlaw family-pimping by politicians? 

9:30: Hey Romney, I think the X Games were one of the great showcases of the human spirit. What will you do to bring back the X Games? 

9:38: Palestinian Americans exist? And they're Republicans? 

9:39: (Just kidding. One thing I like about having a bunch of Arabs in my family and friend networks is that Arabs are almost always super-rightwingers when scratch the surface.)

9:41: I'm a big fan of J-Pod's Twitter feed, and here's a reason why: "One reason I like Mitt Romney is he thinks I'm a Gentile."

9:44: Don't-forget-the-diacritical alert: Dig Matt Welch's interview with the Santorum-namechecked Luis Fortuño. 

9:49: Hey Santorum: It's not just the owners manual. It's also the supreme goddamn law of the land. 

9:54: Beating-Obama question favors Ron Paul: Even though Romney is the most electable because of the electableness of his electability, Ron Paul actually outpolls Obama

9:56: Was it really only two hours? It feels like 36. 

9:59: So for the umpteenth time we're going out with no discussion of Fast and Furious, Solyndra or Keyston XL. Focus on Obama, boys, focus on Obama! 

9:60/10:00: Thanks a lot, folks. I want my two hours back. 

NEXT: Late-Breaking Debate Open Thread! Florida! Knife-Fight!

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  1. Third party debate thread. YOU’RE SPLITTING THE VOTE!

  2. But which open thread should I choose?

  3. Where’s that guy who made the Reasonable plugin? Why can’t he make so that my comments go in all 3 threads?

    1. Hier.

      But I ain’t doing it. 😉

  4. I’m not watching any stinkin’ debates. However, I will say that my two favorite moonbases from TV so far are Moonbase Alpha and the Moonbase from U.F.O.

    I’ll also issue my standard statement that I think Paul is making a mistake not actively campaigning in Florida. I know a boatload of people here in Tampa who like him or are receptive to his message.

  5. Looks like Paul’s been hittin’ the Sapho juice. Maybe rocking to semuta too.

  6. We must have two Moon bases. So we can have a vigorous intramural lacrosse league.

    Because going to the moon ain’t shit if you can’t get a good game of lacrosse when you are here.

    1. Moon bases with frickin laser beams.

  7. We must have two Moon bases. So we can have a vigorous intramural lacrosse league.

    Because going to the moon ain’t shit if you can’t get a good game of lacrosse when you are here.

    1. stop double posting you cunt

    2. Two bases for your two posts?

      Luna City and Novy Leningrad.

      1. you get a boner when you call people cunt like heller?

      2. As long as the bus ride is not too far. Long bus-rides make lacrosse suck.

        1. You can’t play good lacrosse in 1/6 gravity. Dumbass.

          1. You can’t play good lacrosse in 1/6 gravity.

            Not the half-ass way you play it, shitheel.

          2. Why do you hate space?

            1. Because it killed my grandpappy! Damn you, near perfect vacuum of space, damn you to Mormon Hell!

        2. By bus you mean subterranean ballistic tube, right?

    3. Can’t we just divide the colonists into teams have them all in one place, battleschool style. Which, btw, is what I’m building in space. Ender’s Game style battle school. Laser Tag in zero g. Who’s in?

      1. I guess if you want to do all lazy-like…

      2. The enemy’s gate is down.

  8. Paul flubbed the immigration question but gets back on track with Fannie and Freddy.

  9. would please someone tell me what the fuck is with the black squares over the stars and stripes lapel pins?

    1. GPS in case one of them run off.

    2. It’s an abstraction of a Borg cube hovering over the U.S.

      1. I wonder if the Borg get basic healthcare.

        1. They have an HMO.

          1. No, you’re a HOMO!

            1. You’re a towel!

              1. Here’s a frood who really knows where his towel is.

    3. Electrical tape. Don’t want to offend anybody.

  10. Ron gets applause about eliminating the 16th Amendment.

    1. He would have gotten the same applause if he said repeal the 19th. No one in the audience can tell the amendments apart.

  11. i would like to point out just how incredible flex nuts it is for ron paul to effectively say, “fuck reagan,” to a republican audience.

  12. Wait, are we supposed to be here, instead?

    1. Stuff it, hippie.

      1. A hippie gots to know what space to occupy.

        1. Where you been? We were afraid you finally succumbed to Spam poisoning.


    Ron Paul: Meh.

  14. God I love Reason’s live threads. There’s no greater group of smart asses on the planet I’d rather virtually hang out with.

    1. You ignorant slut I read your book!

  15. A moon base? Thank goodness we live on Earth and not on Jupiter.

    1. Jupiter’s moons are problematic. We are forbidden to land on Europa.

  16. so how many times do the other candidates have to say, “i agree with ron paul,” before voters finally figure it out?

    1. F’in infinity…

  17. Haha Ron just slammed newt on balancing the budget. Nooooiiiiice!

  18. “Dr. Paul, what say you about the Debt?”

  19. Rachel Maddow is wearing a spacesuit on MSNBC right now to prove government can do no wrong, or something of that nature.

    1. Also earlier on MSNBC: Chris Matthews talking about how Newt is the Tea Party favorite. Uh huh.

      1. Not a single Tea Partier I’ve met over the last year (and I’ve had occasion to meet a great, great many) supports Newt. Not one. Chris fucking Matthews.

  20. Romney: “I promise, I’ll get you back to work.”

    Cross your heart and hope to die?

  21. Look at all these too cool for school commenters not watching the very important Florida debate on CNN between the candidates for the Republican nomination where serious uh conversations about um policy… fuck it.

  22. So former speaker Gingrich is now called congressmen Gingrich? Santorum trying to subtly dig at gingrich?

  23. Time to bring up the WoD.

  24. Santorum, just drop out and endorse Gingrich already.

    1. Hell, no! Somebody endorsed me today.

  25. I’m surprised Romney’s defense of his health plan drew such applause.

    1. Trained seals man, trained seals

  26. and santorum just earned his vp slot

    1. (Sent from my phone)

      Not my VP.

  27. Romney bot is breaking!!!!!

  28. I swear that if, at any time in this election, a candidate says to Newt (in reference to the moonbase issue), “All your base are belong to us”, I’ll vote for him.

  29. Paul: Everyone is wrong, fuck all y’all.

  30. Gingrich has BIG thoughts again

  31. “Please pander to my ethnic group” doesn’t sound like much of a question.

  32. Romney can remember names!!!

    1. You know who else could remember names?

      1. Rick Perry?

        1. Uhhhh….oops

          1. Heh, heh!

  33. “Why would your wife make the best first lady?”

    A: She’s married to me, and I would make the best president.

    1. Great head! Broke up my second marriage.

      1. Alternate answer: Third time’s the charm!

    2. “She knows all about Fast and Furious, Solyndra, Keystone, and all the other real issues you have apparently slept through.”

  34. Blitzer is having a wonderful fluffer debate once again.

    1. Has he ejaculated into his own beard yet? That usually the highlight of the show.

      1. Santorum is looking grottoes than normal.

        1. Apparently spellcheck does not like the word frothier.

          1. The rarest–and goddamn sexist–of all the grottoes.

          2. Did you mean frontier? Furrier?

        2. Santorum can also go into the chunky hair gel business.

      2. Hey, Guy, what ya ingesting tonight?

  35. Newt: I got to know all three, and each one of them would make for a great first lady. See, he does have an open marriage.

  36. for a second there, I thought Newt was going to say “Any of my three wives would make a good first lady.”

  37. I’m pulling a Muskie!

    1. Eewww!!

  38. Is Blitzer trying out for host of “The Dating Game”?

    1. I hope so. This debate is no jeopardy.

  39. i think newt just came.

    1. “Handed the torch” is what did it.

  40. Venezuela is not Cuba but sure Rick whatever.

    1. Effin’ Spanish cancer whatever.

  41. sanctions hurt the people of cuba and encourage them to turn to Castro and empowers him

  42. Palestinian-American Republican? Yuck.

  43. There goes the sole Republican Palestine member.

    1. It was nice while it lasted

  44. “I want to vote for you, but Republicans traditionally don’t respect my people”

    -Here’s why your people are violent jerkbags

  45. i’m loving this fuck-you-liberal-media-we-ain’t-taking-the-racebait judo mitt’s got going.

    1. CNN has gone from gotcha question to qotcha questioner.

  46. Son of a biiiiiiatch.

    The best reason to build a moon base would be to get away from totalitarian fucktards like Nukular Newton.

    1. Can we move Congress and the president to the moon?

      1. Would that even help? There’d just be an 8-second delay to transmitting their bullshit to us. The TP would have to go into space to make a point!

  47. With his Romneycare attack, Santorum stumbles into the strongest case against Romney: that he has no leg to stand on against President Obama.

    You need to flesh out that so-called “case”.

    Passing a stupid state-level, constitutional, health care system reboot with massive support from the populace is different from passing a stupid federal level unconstitutional health care system reboot against the will of the persons. At least for anyone who cares about federalism.

    1. The electorate just doesn’t give one about that kind of nuance, so the case stands.

    2. Oh its constitutional. It’s also a disaster fiscally. That’s the great thing about federalism, some states can try out fucking bullshit, while others can be the controls as they sit by and watch the retarded state sink into the sea. Everyone learns a lesson.

  48. That was a stereotypical puerto rican accent. Shit.

    1. Oh no you did-n’t!

    2. Speaking of Puerto Ricans, Epstein is dead.…..ead-at-60/

      1. 🙁 RIP guy.

  49. Paul should have spOken up on the palestinian question with “if the Palestinians want peace they better figure that shut out with Israel because I’m not gonna sit there and hold the Israelis back. That would have doubled his poll numbers in seconds.

    1. For someone with your handle, you sure as hell would make a fine communications handler for Ron Paul!

      1. He never listens to my random posts on this site to his detriment.

    2. Paul should just beat the livin hell out of all of them on NDAA

      Why is that not happening?

      1. I stopped reading after “them” and I agree.

  50. Wow these are stupid questions. We are 10 years into a war in Afghanistan, brewing up a war with Iran, challenging Greece for budgeting failure, and CNN wants to talk about racial quotas for the cabinet and first ladies.

    1. When conservatives go on and on about how awful the media is, I have to roll my eyes…until they’re proven almost completely right.

  51. 9:49: Hey Santorum: It’s not just the owners manual. It’s also the supreme goddamn law of the land.

    No one ever reads the manual.

  52. 9:60/10:00: Thanks a lot, folks. I want my two hours back.

    I spent my last 2 hours driving to and from a “wet” county where I ate fine cheap Italian food.

  53. John King is trying to tag Santorum’s mother.

    1. Santorum brought his mother to the debate?

      Well that’s certainly going to put to rest all those closet gay accusations…

  54. When’s the MSNBC debate with Rachel Maddow?

  55. Compromise position: Let’s Elect Ron Paul President, ROMNIAC as Veep, and Newt as First Emperor of the Moon.

  56. 9:15: There’s a real problem with Romney’s argument that the people of Massachusetts like Romneycare by “about three to one.” That’s the exact problem with Social Security, Medicare, Defense, and so on. They’re cancers on the economy but the voters will never get rid of them.

    Count me as part of the one.

  57. I have my best live-blogging Reason debate performance of the campaigh, and Tim splits the audience with a third party thread!

  58. Anyone else remember Moontrap? With Chekhov and Bruce Campbell? There was that awesome scene where Chekhov crawls through an air duct to blast the alien with a shotgun, and another awesome scene where he takes time out from killing aliens to pitch a tent and bang a hot space chick ON THE FUCKING MOON. Classic.

  59. Has Europe been brought up at all during these debates? And how many times has pizza preferences been brought up?

    1. Romney said Europe’s a social welfare case he doesn’t want to see America become, but that’s it, and that’s only in the debate that finished just now.

  60. This is like the worst chat room ever

    1. How YOU doin?

  61. Wow, for a website called “reason”….

    hashtag reason

  62. Many thanks for providing such useful information. I really many thanks for
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  63. noncops shoot people to and aren’t charged….

    SEATTLE — The parents of a man fatally shot by a man who said he acted in self-defense have filed a wrongful death claim against the gunman.

    Joseph E. Tobeck, 20, of Tenino was fatally shot by William Morgan outside Morgan’s Roy home in June 2010. According to Tobeck’s father, the victim and his friend were searching for scrap metal when Morgan accused them of stealing and opened fire.

    The two drove off, ran into a dead-end and had to drive back by Morgan, who fired at the truck until it crashed, the victim’s father said.

    The Pierce County Prosecutor’s Office chose not to file criminal charges against Morgan, who reportedly said he repeatedly shot at the men because he feared for his life.

    “It’s a private road. It’s a small road. So that’s probably a conclusion that could easily be drawn,” said defense attorney Zenon Obertz during a previous interview.

    Now 71-year-old Morgan and his wife are the defendants in a lawsuit filed by Tobeck’s parents.

    “It’s just so sad to have my son gone at so young of an age,” Vernon Tobeck, the victim’s father, told KOMO News in the days after his son’s death.

    According to the complaint, Tobeck and his friend were gathering what they believed to be scrap metal when they were “confronted by William Morgan, who was in possesion of a .40-caliber Sig Sauer pistol.”

    Morgan “appeared very aggravated” as Tobeck’s friend asked if the pipes belonged to him, the plaintiffs alleged. “Morgan never claimed ownership of the pipes and the property that emerged from was on the opposite side (south) of 385th Street South from where the pipes were located.”

    Morgan had his gun drawn, the complaint said, prompting Tobeck and his friend to slowly get back into their car and try to drive off.

    “Mr. Morgan without being provoked started to fire his pistol in the direction of the truck,” the complaint said, adding the man “shot repeatedly into the cab of the truck, even after the truck had passed his direction.”

    Morgan fired nine rounds, all of which hit or entered the cab of the truck, said the complaint. One round hit Tobeck, who was driving, in the head, causing the truck to crash into a tree.

    Tobeck later died from his injuries. His companion, who was seriously injured in the crash, managed to crawl out of the truck, but was met by Morgan, who ordered him to the ground.

    Neighbors grew aware of the situation and police soon arrived. Meantime, Morgan “initially would not let anyone provide medical attention to Mr. Tobeck,” the complaint alleged.

    Tobeck died the following day from his injuries. An autopsy showed he had suffered a single gunshot to the head.

    The complaint alleged Morgan’s “negligent and reckless act” caused extensive injuries to both Tobeck and his companion. Morgan was “under duty to exercise due care and caution in the operation of a .40-caliber Sig Sauer pistol” but “failed to exercise reasonable care.”

    The complaint seeks unspecified damages for the physical and emotional pain suffered by the victim’s parents.

    “I’m just so heartbroken,” said the victim’s mother, April Norman.

    1. sloopy et al would say “if these weren’t COPS, they would be ARRESTED”

      except the guy wasn’t a cop, and he wasn’t arrested or charged.

    2. Is this a spoof or are you having caps lock issues that only manifest when typing in your name?

      Or is “DUNPHY” your handle for Jezebel?

      1. not a spoof. just one more example that proves their meme is ridiculous. note also, almost all my counterexamples are LOCAL (to me). i don’t have to search the nation for counterexamples. they are right in my backyard

        we have a guy who shot an unarmed kid, committing (if that) a relatively minor crime, and he shot at a fleeing vehicle, etc.

        i have seen numerous posts ridiculing cops for shootign at vehicles and their alleged made up “officer safety” he was coming right at me claims bla bla bla

        my point, and especially in WA, a state where self defense is strongly protected, is that LOTS of noncops don’t get charged in shootings similar to this, contrary to the claim that only cops get away with this stuff

      2. oh, i’ve never been on jezebel, but it sounds as bad or worse than feministing.

        at least here, there are SOME people who are not ideologues and thorough bigots, whereas at feministing, the ONLY pov you see is 100% ideologue anti-male idiocy. the duke case was such a brilliant example. i argued from the start it looked flawed, and was eventually completely vindicated, but ideologues don’t let such inconvenient facts upset their memes. their meme is that women are victims, and men are either abusers or potential abusers just waiting to strike, much like the anti-cop bigots here feel (note: FEEL, since “think” would be too generous) about cops

        once people reach that level of truly blind hate, they are lost to… wait for it… reason.


    3. Sounds like another police fuck-up. They should have pressed charges.

      1. technically, in WA state, the ONLY person(s) with authority to charge ANYBODY in this state are prosecuting attorneys. cops can RECOMMEND charges, but they do not actually charge people

        regardless, i don’t know all the facts, but that’s kind of my point

        sloopy et al rely on media articles to decide that cops were OBVIOUSLY unjustified in many shootings, some of which sound quite similar ot this.

        i have NO idea if the shooting was justified or not, and note also a point i repeatedly make is it is one thing to say a shooting is NOT CRIMINAL. it can still be CIVILLY actionable and yet not meet CRIMINAL FILING standards, something that sloopy claims should never happen with cops. he claims ALL cases of excessive force should be CRIMINALLY ACTIONABLE

        in the real world, we realize that there are many cases where a use of force by cop or as in this case, just some guy, is not CRIMINAL, but may still be excessive and/or cviilly actionable

        there are LOTS of cases like this. but it is an example of how their “cops get away with bad shoots that “citizens” wouldn’t ” meme is so flawed, since they only see articles about cop shootigns and often badly written and/or not giving enuf facts to make the call. based on this article, it would SOUND bad to them, and doubly bad if it was a COP of course , but in fact, it COULD be quite justified, and again that’s not even the same metric as to whether it’s a CRIME

        note also, that this guy was eseentially in a ARREST situation, and as i explain – you can’t compare cop shootigns that occur “in the line of duty” such as ARREST situations with uses of force that are not arrest type situations whether or not committed by cop or non cop

        this is a perfect example of a noncop use of force in an arrest type situation and as i also explain (and findlaw et al explain) GENERALLY speaking, we police have STRICTER rules regarding using force in such situations than noncops do, whether they be security guards, or just average joes interruping a crime in progress, as in this case

      2. note also. why are you drawing these conclusions? are you ASSUMING that most of the (apparently) negative issues regarding the shooter are true, and if so why?

        read it. “plaintiff alleges”. “plaintiff alleges” etc.

        iow, yea— that’s what they ARE CLAIMING

        it may be true… or not

        sloopy would automatically assume it was true, if the allegations were against a police shooter. i don’t assume it’s true or false. why would i?

        or you?

  64. Only what matters: The 1-26-2012 CNN Debate, Ron Paul highlights:…

  65. Ron Paul Calls For Restoring Diplomatic Relations With Cuba

    I totally concur.

    Ron Paul took a risky position in Florida in Thursday’s debate, calling for communication and diplomatic relations with Cuba, saying that people’s positions have changed dramatically over the last few years.

    Paul said that Cuba isn’t going to invade the U.S. any time soon, and that Americans weren’t looking under their beds anymore, worried. Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich followed by pledging to continue the economic embargo on Cuba and to take any action short of military invasion to upend the government of Raul Castro.

    Paul’s position is a potentially dangerous one in Florida, a state with a influential voting bloc of conservative Republicans from Cuba who have long favored aggressive policies toward Havana.

    But a study of Cuban American voters in Florida suggests that Paul might be right, and that voters’ opinions about Cuba are changing. Support for tightening the embargo dropped by roughly half between 2004 and 2008, according to a study by Benjamin Bishin, a UC Riverside professor.

  66. Dude that is like totally rocking in every sense of the word.


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