Ron Paul

Night of the Lonely Huntsman: South Carolina Martin Luther King Day GOP Debate Open Thread and Live-Blogging


Too pretty for America

Since last we open-threaded, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) croaked former Utah governor Jon Huntsman out of the race by winning a strong if distant second place in New Hampshire. Strange new respect/accommodation for the doctor-congressman began trickling in from unlikely sources. Mitt Romney's path to the goal line became even clearer, despite everything that's wrong with Mitt Romney. Newt Gingrich, in a naked attempt to alienate every single person who didn't already hate Newt Gingrich's guts, unleashed an anti-Romney line of attack worse even than Peter Suderman's headlines. Tim Tebow granted merciful reprieve to spouses stunned by the sudden intrusion of football on domestic television sets. Flies began buzzing around the general vicinity of Rick Perry, who is in a pitched battle with a flagging Santorum in the race to be the last Rick standing by this time next week. Peter Dinklage won a Golden Globe.

Storylines: "South Carolina primary is Romney rivals' last hope." "CNN Poll: Obama tied with Romney & Paul in November showdowns." Stephen Colbert is trying to make a local funny. "Confederate flag flap could impact MLK day debate."

Game of pwns

Backdrop: The Nate Silver kidz have the South Carolina race currently at 35%-23%-16%-14%-9% Mitt-Newt-Paul-Santorum-Perry.

Long game: The New York Times has a very good piece about Ron Paul's strategy through to the Republican National Convention.

Last-minute prep: Take our candidate quiz, dammit, if for no other reason than to laugh and laugh at the people who have already lost. Then bone up on the five mouseketeers here:

Mitt Romney: Profile, Reason coverage page
Ron Paul: Profile, coverage
Newt Gingrich: Profile, coverage
Rick Santorum: Profile, coverage
Rick Perry: Profile, coverage

9:06: I realized tonight that the second (or first?) main source of enjoyment at these things is watching campaigns die. I would like to think we are watching Newt Gingrich's die right now.

9:09: Right, Rick Perry, too. Though this was effective: "Mitt, we need for you to read your income tax." And the bit about how we can't fire the nominee in September.

9:11: Mitt Romney is running to "crack down" on cheaty Chinese!

9:13: Commenter Joe M: "So Gingrich spends five minutes serving up a big fat underhand pitch to Romney, who will now begin his general election campaign."

9:14: That 50% better GDP than Europe line of Romney's–does that include former-commie Eastern Europe? If so, it's not very honest.

9:16: Ron Paul could have chosen any candidate to attack after that stupid-ass question about negative campaigning, and he chose to attack Santorum. He really wants to step on those last remaining fingers.


9:18: It happens every debate–Rick Santorum says something I like: Challenging Mitt Romney on whether ex-felons can vote. And he's on the right side of the issue. AND HE'S TALKING ABOUT INCARCERATION RATES. And he's playing the MLK card. Go, Ricky!

9:20: This is as good a reminder as any that, in addition to having absolutely no plan to cut government, Romney is awful on criminal justice, immigration, China, and much else besides.

9:24: Commenter Bomb Everyone: "Europe downgraded, Israel attacking Iran, and economy in the dump and we're spending ten minutes on Mass. felons voting?" Well, I think there are some important underlying issues here, B.E.!

9:28: "Perfectly lubricated"! DRINK!

9:29: Mitt Romney has always had the core belief that he wants to become president. (Yes we'll be doing this every debate.) And I believe in Uncle Todd, who waves his penis!

9:30: "South Carolina is at war with this federal government." #hewentthere

9:32: Did you know that Ron Paul is in second place? He's had one answer in 33 minutes.

9:33: Bee Tagger: "Perry found a good mix of drugs for tonight so far."

9:36: Whoaaaa…. Actual question about Europe.

9:37: Did Romney just use the auto industry as an example of the normal bankruptcy process working as opposed to government intervention? Because that is insane, in the head.

9:40: Second question for Congressman Paul! And a good, direct one. Rambling answer, but he stuck the landing.

9:42: Romney gives three answers to a single-answer question.

9:43: "I want to make the inflation tax zero as well." Put simply.

9:44: Stephen Hayes: "Ron Paul is right on 'spending is taxation' argument. We'll all pay it at some point, in some form."

Nice cover

9:47: Commenter Scruffy the Janitor: "Were those boos, for Romney's dad being born in Mexico?" Yes, yes I believe they were. I thought it was Nick Gillespie outside my window again.

9:48: BTW, has anyone ever talked Santorum through the whole correlation/causation thing, in re: people getting married getting unpoor?

9:49: Juan Williams absolutely underhands Ron Paul a drug war/racism question. Wow.

9:50: Ron Paul says Martin Luther King would agree with him on wars against drugs and foreign countries. DRINK TWICE! Crowd totally quiet.

9:53: Juan Williams staying unflappable. I wouldn't be.

9:55: By the way, Food Stamps totally boomed under George W. Bush, as a result of bureaucratic effectiveness. Read Greg Beato.

10:00: Ron Paul gets a direct question on the Osama bin Laden assassination, and flails around. I'm beginning to believe Hit & Run commenters' conspiracy theories about Fox News questions…. This is not the best three minutes of his campaign.

GOP foreign policy platform

10:07: Paul gets a heavy booing. And Romney shifts very quickly to attacking Obama. He is no longer running against Republicans.

10:09: Commenter Tulpa: "Dr Paul, you eat babies for breakfast. Explain why."

10:11: Commenter Fist of Etiquette: "Ron Paul needs to answer this question better."

10:16: Paul makes a good Taliban/Al Qaeda distinction. Also, this is an absolute kill-'em-all-fest. BUT WAIT! Romney gets some boos for signing the National Defense Authorization Act. I think they're serving booze in there.

10:17: Say it loud, say it proud: Romney won't cut Medicare, won't cut Social Security, won't cut the military. But he'll balance the budget!

10:20: "Don't give up on our American judicial system so easily, I beg of you!"

10:23: "Don't forget who it was who cut Medicare by $500 billion dollars!" BTW, the questions tonight have been pretty good, I think. Very pointed question to Romney about what the hell he'll do on entitlements. The question to Paul about Osama was a good question. I even think Juan Williams' bit with Gingrich was good, though he'll get hammered for it. No 30-minute wanderings into talking to your gay BFF on the couch, and so on. Housing market questions, and so on.

10:27: This Gingrich answer on Social Security is the single best answer I've ever seen him give about anything, ever.

10:30: Rick Santorum attacks Mitt for not being bold on entitlements. He's right!

10:32: "Cutting back is going to have to happen." Perfect passive voice from Mitt Romney. In the service of attacking doing a goddamned thing about Social Security.

10:34: Jesse Walker: "After the break: Greece. Is it run by terrorists too?"

10:40: You know, I go on TV sometimes. I am asked questions. Sometimes you slip off the hook a bit so you can use the very small window to make the point you want to make instead of giving a literal answer. I mention this because OH MY GOD DOES MITT ROMNEY NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS. He's got the wriggle-on-your-record-and-turn-it-back-to-Obama thing down PAT. It's totally offensive, and yet it's like America is just too weary to care.

10:45: Is there a Super Pac-Man video game?

10:47: I hate to be a spoilsport, but repealing all campaign-finance laws does NOT allow you to get rid of private citizens spending money how they feel like to make advertisements about politics.

10:48: I WANT A DOUBLE-FENCE. "That border will be locked down," Perry says.

11:00: Abrupt ending alert! Well, I have no idea about these things, but I think Newt Gingrich is the one who helped himself most here, and Ron Paul the least (though it's easy to overreact to a room howling for blood). Arguing for non-interventionism (in any sphere of government, but particularly foreign policy/military) is hard, and if you're not on top of your game the results can be pretty harsh in the eyes of the undecideds out there. Actually, same goes for non-interventionism on entitlements, as the interesting Santorum/Gingrich/Romney debate illustrated.

Again, Mitt Romney is running on a platform specifically opposed to anybody's ideas of messing with Social Security, Medicare, and military spending. He reckons–and so far he's right!–that it probably makes him more electable, and his entire campaign is built around electability. But his ultimate undoing may be that electability for electability's sake is a song that only sounds pleasant to Republican ears, and there are fewer of those things every week. If you're not going to talk about cutting government during a GOP presidential campaign after three years of Barack Obama & a lousy economy, when are you gonna bring it up?

And with that, good night.

NEXT: Ira Stoll on Mitt Romney and John Hancock

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  1. #killmenow

    1. A vote for somebody who wants taxes at zero is a vote for somebody who will help end agricultural city-Statism (civilization.)

      I wonder why they didn’t interview Paul for the movie END:CIV

      1. The question was about the income tax. Ron Paul thinks income tax should be zero, like it was before 1913. Was there no civilization before 1913?

  2. That’s what I am talking about

  3. How long until the contraception portion of the debate?

    1. They should put Santorum on vs. the LA city council. Dueling authoritarian viewpoints.

  4. Beginning to think the Reason crew was working government hours…

    1. They’re not a bunch of racists like the paleolibertarians and those Vermont banksters.

  5. Why is Stephen Colbert not on the stage?

    1. He really should be moderating. I want more entertainment.

      1. That would be cool.

        1. Speaker Gingrich, would you rather have a pony or romney’s head in a jar.

  6. Can we get a question about the questions about the campaign?

  7. Ohhh Newt when will you learn guys like you don’t create jobs

  8. Phew, it was getting lonely on the Hancock thread. I felt like the only one who loved that movie.

  9. Did he just say ass-raising questions?

    1. He’s hoping for Megyn Kelly to get involved.

    2. New figure trimming exercise.

  10. Anyone else misread the bottom of the post as “Profile in Courage” and spit take?

  11. Newt, can you please set up Mitt to promote his best assets and ignore his worst as governor?

  12. Can someone pass the vodka?

    1. Sorry, dry county…

    2. Let me be clear.

      Here you go, Comrade!

  13. So Gingrich spends five minutes serving up a big fat underhand pitch to Romney, who will now begin his general election campaign.

  14. Oh, so this is a mock debate for Romney to prepare for Obama? Help him hone his answers to eventual attacks?

    1. It’s a debate to mock, that’s for sure. (but aren’t they all?)

  15. Perry is such a shit bag.

  16. really, Rick?

  17. Perry trying to consolidate the anti-Romney vote.

    1. And the anti-everything-that-makes-America-decent vote.

  18. #dodge for the next two hours I guess

    1. It’s #dodges all the way down.

      1. There’ll be #christ-lers soon enough.

  19. Hey Ron Paul, take note, make insane attacks on the record. You’ll get to go first in debates, then.

  20. “Guys let’s attack Romney, on his business ventures and how much money he makes. This is sure to get us votes in a Republican primary.”

  21. And when will Obama release his school transcripts, medical records, and birth certificate?

  22. I would like to see Perry surge to take votes from those other schmoes.

  23. Tyrion for prez

    1. A Lannister always gets his nomination.

    2. Danearys, she’s hotter.

      1. She is pro-torture enough for the Republican field.

        1. Hot, really hot

      2. Danaerys is certainly the war with Iran candidate.

        1. She’s more the Democratic warhawk. She kills them out of love.

          1. Only if Iran has slaves.

            Danerys is anti-slavery, favors a strong military and is enthusiastic about the use of weapons of mass destruction (dragonfire) on enemies and potential suitors (poor Quentyn Martell).

            I support the Triumverate of Doran Martell, Wyman Manderly and Tyrion Lannister.

            1. You’ll get a Baelish presidency, and you’ll like it because you thought it was your idea all along.

              1. I’ll accept a Baelish presidency only if Roose Bolton is his running mate (a peaceful land and a quiet people) and Randyll Tarly is in line to named Secretary of Defense.

  24. Is Ron Paul even there?

  25. Romney should forget the presidency and just do Grecian Formula commercials.

    1. Experience and energy!

      1. The average voter mistakes “energy” for “intelligence.”

  26. WTF is this the sparring match before the big fight for mittens?

  27. Romney will save us from cheap steel.

  28. Fox is playing with fire here. They love sharing a bed with Republican leadership so they need to focus entirely on Romney. But a good deal of their viewers are tea party-ish who hate Romney. Life was so much easier when all they had to do was ignore Ron Paul.

  29. Gerald Seib?

    Seib Heil!

  30. Boom. Slam on union mentality.

  31. Why are we attacking private equity?

  32. FoxNews: Dr. Paul, could you tell us what you like about how Romney ran his business?

  33. Am I missing a link to the live feed? The one at Fox News isn’t working.

    1. I wouldn’t say you’re missing it, SIV.

      1. I tried Fox News in 2 different browsers and no luck.

      2. THANK YOU!!

  34. Suddenly I’m watching Gilmore Girls.

  35. Is Kelly wearing a pearl necklace?

    1. It’s a tribute to Thatcher

        1. even Ron got that one

  36. GO PAUL GO!


  38. This is the first time I’ve seen Ron Paul checking his notes.

    1. noticed that also. seemed really strained.

  39. SOROS!

  40. Finish him!

  41. Can we add a new Godwin type law for Soros?

  42. So Paul just repeats his attacks, and Santorum is going to ignore the actual facts to try to draw some left-wing connections.

    1. Nice.

      Moderator: Ron Paul, do you now withdraw your dirty negative attack ads?

      Ron Paul: No. Now let me tell you about Santorum’s record as a big government hypocrite.

      Rick Santorum: Yes, I voted for big government. But those were leftists calling me corrupt for taking all that money.

  43. Bad things, Rick S, but are they TRUE?

  44. Santorum in three years: “I bombed Iran and started WWIII, in hind sight I shouldn’t have.”

    1. More like in hindsight he didn’t bomb his critics which he regrets.

  45. “If you give me a second chance, I’ll repeal all my bad laws.”

  46. This makes me ill to say, but Santorum answered well by owning up to wrong votes.

    1. Yeah but I am not to sure how Team Red likes admitting to mistakes.

    2. Bullshit, actions talk, words are pretty much just so. I can’t believe anyone would change their mind on santorums “my bad”

  47. NPR got rid of Williams for plagiarizing other people’s questions.

  48. Yeah Santorum, but you’re going super negative tomorrow.

    But a decent human answer from Santorum!(?)

  49. Answer the fucking question.

  50. Santorum just asked the best question of the night. Damn Mayans.

  51. Santorum is so bullshit! “Yeah I did the exact opposite of my professed principles, but given the chance, I’d do the right thing next time.”

  52. Santorum is playing the race card.

  53. Wow, Santorum actually sounds good.

  54. Santorum laying the smack down.

    1. — Santorum just asked the best question of the night.

      — Wow, Santorum actually sounds good.

      — Santorum laying the smack down.

      Come on, y’all! How about a little play-by-play for those of us not-watching-at-home?

      1. Santorum sad something about why he believes felons should be given back the right to vote. Paul should have spoke up with the statistics of WHY minorities are so often felons “cough, drug war, cough”

        1. To be fair, Santorum actually did mention that.

          1. Missed the drug war ref. I’m pretty sure santorum would double down on arresting minorities.

    1. Holy shit. Are you the one broadcasting on JustinTV?

  55. Santorum gotcha!

  56. Santorum just roundly destroyed Romney.


  57. Santorum: put druggies in jail but let them vote!

  58. Oh but then he calls out Romney for doing the same thing.

  59. I’m confused. Does Santorum think he will someday be president?

    1. Lots of applause. It’s like a nightmare you can’t wake up from.

  60. Santorum’s all up in Romney’s ass.

    1. Just googled that…. Not pretty

  61. Here we go, I can see McCain (and Feingold) pulling Mitt’s strings.

  62. Europe downgraded, Israel attacking Iran, and economy in the dump and we’re spending ten minutes on Mass. felons voting?

    1. Is this a great country or what?

      1. She added: ‘If women want to have a look, I’m quite happy to show them, it’s not something I’m embarrassed by.’

        To ask or not to ask? That is the question…

        1. If you watch the video, she talks about how she and her husband are into swinging.

      2. I don’t even want to think about Rule 34 right now.

  63. I’ve had enough anal leakage for one day.

  64. So Santorum wants convicted felons to regain the franchise, but doesn’t want to prevent them from becoming felons in the first place by, say, calling off the war on drugs

    1. Yeah, isn’t he worried that they’ll vote to end the drug war that incarcerated them in the first place?

    2. Hey baby steps. (credit’s due where credit’s due though)

      1. Santorum is full of shit. Hell probably say felons have to embrace Jesus before getting refranchised.

  65. Rick Perry FTW!

  66. Once again, Perry rediscovers the Tenth Amendment.

    When do you think he’ll forget it again?

    1. When it doesn’t fit into my plans, oops.

  67. The asperger’s candidate gives a shout out to the 10th amendment.

  68. So let’s see. Twenty minutes in, Romney has talked about half of that time. Paul… oh, about thirty seconds.

  69. Romney “sure, but you can’t afford to run ads”

  70. My liver will give out before the top of the clock.

  71. I’d love to see Ron Paul highlight the inherent racism in the drug war tonight.

    1. Are you smoking crack?

    2. I’d love to see him wake up

  72. Romney sounds like an uber douche every time he breaks out the I can’t control the super pac bullshit.

    1. Yeah, that’s a major laugh line.

    2. Romney sounds like an uber douche every time he breaks out the talks

    3. Yeah, but I don’t think anyone cares at all about these Super PACs.

  73. A commercial talking about flat earth theory during the GOP debate? Talk about your targeted advertising.

    1. I had one about how trains were the vehicle of the future.

    2. As is the ad on Mob Wives.

  74. After the break… 80s Movies Trivia

  75. Wow what a “Baby come back!” question…

    1. How do I know you won’t hurt me again?

      1. Great name. Just saw an episode today where he’s reading “zero g jugs”

  76. Rick Santorum likes that lubricant is being applied to another candidate.

    1. Next, he’ll put blows to Romney’s fat neck.

  77. I really don’t need to hear the word “lubricated” associated with any of these people.

  78. “Perfectly lubricated”?

    Aww …

  79. It’s almost like Romney had this answer prepared…

  80. “Perfectly lubricated weather vane”

    Shouldn’t that be a question for Santorum?

  81. Now that Huntsman is out, who will order the Chinese food?

  82. Blah blah blah… zzzzz… Romneybot makes me sleepy.

  83. Romney, a perfectly santorumed weather vane

  84. Ha! Everybody knows there are seven genders!

    1. Dude. Two vaginas.


      1. Kangaroos would love this (they have forked dicks)

        1. Mostly true (I am not connected with this website but kinda wish I were)

  85. “I believe in an individual mandate.”

  86. Mitt Romney, for your next question, we’d like you to read page 4 from your prepared speech.

  87. Gay people should have the same rights as heterosexuals, but not tax cuts, survivor benefits are really anything of consequence.

    1. That was Romney paraphrased BTW

  88. When Bret Baier said Perfectly lubricated, did anyone else notice Santorum’s ears perk up?

    1. I don’t know if that was his ears, but yeah.

  89. I don’t know how you people watch this stuff.

    1. “you people”


    2. “This stuff” is a stage holding your next president. (…Mitt Romney.)

      1. You really know how to kick a man when he is down Fist.

  90. So will Perry, far far far behind everyone else, get more time than Paul tonight?

    1. This crowd loves them some so-con from what I can tell.

    2. Fox news has spoken!

  91. “War”! The South will rise again!

  92. Perry found a good mix of drugs for tonight so far.

  93. Perry: EPA! Religion!

  94. You had me then you lost me, Perry.

  95. Then, Perry, I guess you don’t know what it is.

  96. I think the moderators are on a mission to give MSNBC people tasked with watching this a coronary.

  97. So it’s Santorum and Romney, plus some studio politicians.

  98. 142nd god damned debates, and I still can not believe the ignore-Paul bullshit of these things.

  99. Of course, Perry not only didn’t answer the question, but also has his own suit against a state to get onto a ballot (kinda surprised Williams didn’t frame it up with that factoid)

  100. Question #2 for Paul: Congressman Paul, is there anyway we can dismiss you that we have to tried as of yet. Anything you can think of…..Perhaps Perry might have a suggestion.

    1. Is he on the stage?

      1. I think he has received less than 30 seconds so far.

      2. I mean no

      3. During the break, Paul should set up a cardboard cutout behind his podium.

        1. I think he did.

  101. God, look at Santorum’s fingers

  102. So, uh, where’s Gingrich?

  103. just go ahead and set the tee for gingrich at bat.

  104. Newt is despicable.

  105. It’s slow pitch softball night in South Carolina.

  106. Ninety nine weeks is an associates degree

    Pretty much.

  107. 99 weeks is an associate degree. Which is essentially worthless unless you’re a welder.

  108. Everything with Gingrich is government/private sector partnerships. Which means everything is government.

    1. Yup. Why not just let the private sector do what it does/

  109. I love how Fox is attempting to earn Ron Paul’s support by asking him 1 question and everything.

  110. Romney again!!!

  111. “As a historian, let me answer your question”

  112. 36 minutes in, and Paul got about 30 seconds.

  113. They just asked everyone except Paul a question, and now they’re going back to fucking Romney. FOX NEWS SUCK MY DICK.

  114. I can hear Ron Paul snoring

  115. This serial press conference format style sucks.

  116. This crowd needs to shut the hell up. This was advertised as a debate, not a pep rally.

  117. fuck this shit

  118. Next question, Congressman Paul, would you like to take this opportunity to withdraw from the race?

  119. Paul could walk off the stage, leaving a paper cutout at his stand and no one would notice.

    1. Was just thinking that. Wonder how it would poll

  120. “Congressman Paul, what can you tell us about your racist newsletters? In 15 seconds or less.”

  121. yeah what he said

  122. I can’t wait to vote for Gary Johnson.

  123. LIE, Romney. We had like 4 trade deals.

  124. Broken window fallacy FTW!!!!

  125. Romney- I will open new market. Our market, however, will be closed to the “cheaters”. No, I have never heard of this “Smoot-Hawley” thing.

  126. Letting Perry, Gingrich, and Santorum talk more is actually good for Paul.

  127. Paul’s answer is full of shit, sorry.

    1. Which answer?

      1. That a significant enough portion of the defense budget is being spent overseas that just bringing everyone home (but keeping them on the books) would be able to get our budget below 2006 levels.

        1. He’s just giving an example. No way keeping bases in SC open costs the entire 2006 defense budget.

          There’s also money for defense contractor featherbedding, etc in there.

          1. He said something like “The number of bases in South Carolina would probably go up”. It’s pandering anyway you slice it.

            (and the *domestic* defense featherbedding is exactly the jobs people like – he needed to take that on more head on)

    2. Why would we have to cut bases in s. Carolina under Pauls plan?

      1. What the hell are all the people going to do other than make-work?

        1. Defend the USA, which after all is the actual job of the US military. As opposed to defending other countries which is not the job of the US military.

  128. Congressman Paul, why do you hate SC?

  129. Obama renegotiated a trade treaty with South Korea Romney.

    1. Romney’s really just a Simpson’s character? Now it all makes sense!

  130. Crazy looking WSJ fuck: Congressman Paul why do you want to fuck South Carolina by eliminating it’s bases?

    Fuck you douche-bag.

  131. The ONE question they is a pure attempt to marginalize and attack Paul.

  132. DONT.

  133. Tsk, tsk, typical Fox moderator not understanding the Broken Window Fallacy.

    1. From the WSJ nonetheless.

  134. Ha, you don’t understand, morons.

  135. Holy shit! There are more women out there with two vaginas!

    What the fuck? Why has this mutant power gone undetected by me for so long?

  136. So the point of defense spending is to create jobs in South Carolina? What a prick.

  137. The guy asking the question looks like Bernanke. No wonder he’s so hostile.

  138. Animated Ron kept that together pretty well.

  139. Ron Paul should have stopped at A billion dollar embassy in Baghdad is a waste.

  140. Highest income tax? This won’t make liberal heads explode in post debate commentary.

  141. drinking game rules? im coming in late

    1. When a question is asked, drink.

    2. The phrase “well lubricated” surely is worth a good chug.


    3. Everytime I say “fuck you jimmy hat” you drink

  142. Milk for as much time as possible!!

  143. Paul tries to explain the difference between military and defense spending and he neocons do not compute.

  144. yay ron! give ’em hell while you give ’em austrian econ 101!

  145. Props for getting the devaluation of the dollar in there.


    No wait…

    1. Yeah already being done for some.

    2. COME ON DOWN!!!!!!

  147. Mitt Romney: “Fuck no I ain’t releasing my tax records”

  148. Wow, now that he’s actually given an opportunity to speak, Ron Paul is dominating the debate.

    1. That’s what I just read everywhere else, too. Nobody else is talking about it here … ????

  149. I was waiting for them to ask RP how he would pay for government with zero income tax.

    1. They asked him that in an interview four years ago:

      TV talking head: But how would we pay for things like that Capitol building behind you, without an income tax?

      Ron Paul: The Capitol was built before we had an income tax in this country, [dumbass].

  150. Were those boos, for Romney’s dad being born in Mexico?

    1. That’s what I took from it. HuffPo just turned off their TVs and started filing their coverage of the debate.

      1. Damnit South Carolina. Xenophobia is so 1980’s

      2. From Andrew Sullivan’s liveblogging:

        “9.48 pm. Jeers and boos for someone whose grandparents were Mexicans. Wow. The rank xenophobia in the GOP base sometimes surprises. “

  151. Oh great, thanks a lot audience. MSNBC just found their coverage for the next wee.

  152. Thanks for that answer, Governor Romney. Next round of questions: Governor Romney…

    1. To be fair, Paul did steal some time on the last two questions.

  153. Mitt Romney” Mexicans come here to make a better life. I know, my dad was one of them, that’s why I want to fucking end immigration.”

    1. No one on that stage wants to end immigration. At most they want to end illegal immigration, which will still leave the US getting a million new citizens a year, more then any other country in the world, and probably more then all the countries in the worlds outside the USA legal immigration

  154. Romney is really Obama Lite. He has some good answers prepared but catch him off guard and his responses sucks.

    1. He even had a teleprompter for his NH victory speech.

    2. He pretty much fell apart when Sphinctorum asked him about ex-cons voting.

  155. Romney would have legal immigration as one of his sister wives.

  156. Break out the birth certificates, boys.

  157. “fuck you jimmy hat”

  158. Immigration made this country great. Fuck immigration.

  159. Shotgun weddings for the win!

  160. Santorum quoting Brookings?! That’s a known left-wing think tank!

  161. Santorum would do well to sit in on the next causation vs. correlation threads on here.

    1. What are you talking about? I thought we decided MNG was Santorum.

    2. What’s that? Caucasians vs. Chinamen?

  162. Those three things have no selection bias embedded whatsoever.

  163. If only the poors would find God, they wouldn’t be poor. Thanks Santorum!

    1. In fairness to Santorum, he said if onbly the poor could lose their vaginas, they’d be rich

    2. Sphinctorum was right, though.

      Stay in school, get a job and don’t knock up or get knocked up as a kid.

      And you won’t be poor.

      WTF is wrong with admitting that truth?

  164. I knew that they were going to have Juan Williams ask a “black” question.

  165. Not “At risk”! It’s “At hope”!

  166. Those 3 things are in Harry Browne’s book.

  167. Santorum thinks black girls need to marry and not have children.

  168. No, not the finger Rick.

  169. Ha, Juan Williams serving one up for Paul.

  170. Great question for Paul!

  171. I have more money now without my spend happy ex-wife? Santorum is a douche

    1. “my spend happy ex-wife”
      well, you made her happy 🙂

      1. Too bad she made me miserable. 😛

  172. Thank you Juan for setting up an easy homerun for Paul

  173. Another question for Paul, another blatant attempt to marginalize.

  174. What a softball question from Juan Williams to Ron Paul! Finally the old man gets a break

    1. In SC it ain’t. Why do you hate white people Ron Paul?

      1. Yeah, that’s a softball in a Libertarian debate. It’s the “go ahead, hate the military” death question in SC.

  175. “I have a silver platter here for a Mr. Paul? Is there a Mr. Paul around here?”

  176. Yes, Ron Paul gets a soft ball on the drug war.

  177. Rick Santorum “And that’s why we need me to tell everyone how to live.”

  178. Yay, Ron Paul gets dragged into the WAR ON DRUGZ!!!11 again.

  179. and


  180. Jesus fucking Christ, I fucking love Ron Paul.

  181. Eh, Paul’s answer didn’t cover the bases enough for me.

      1. Just think how he’d be doing if he was capable of giving tighter answers in this format. It’s really not conducive to any kind of nuance.

        Paul was the clear winner of the the family values meal or whatever the fuck they called the sit down in Iowa around Thanksgiving where every candidate had time to expand on his views. These bullshit debates, on the other hand, are all about soundbites.

  182. Wow, Newt grew a pair on that answer.

    1. Balls aren’t a good thing when they’re attached to an asshole.

    2. A pair of tumahs

  183. No, I don’t see anything I say as insulting. You’re a pig.

  184. “Speaker Gingrich, you effectively used the n word.”

  185. Dickensian work camps for all!

  186. Newsletters!


  188. Newt: Anti child labor laws.

  189. South Carolina has the fucking worst audience. “Poor people are lazy!” “Boo Ron Paul! Drug War is awesome!”

    For the “deciding” primary, they are ignorant cunts.

    1. There are the state that does exactly what the establishment wants, every four years like clockwork.

    2. Yeah it sounds like a drunken football game, not a political debate.

    3. “BOO! Calling poor people lazy is in no way belittling them!”

  190. Yeah, Gingrich’s daughter is totally comparable to a kid dodging bullets in the inner city.

    1. Is that his original daughter or did he trade her in for a better-looking model?

  191. Poor Paul. All the white people hate him for wanting to end the drug war, while all the black people will vote for Obama.

  192. So since having a job early in your life may be a good thing, we should mandate it?

    1. It used to be called survival.

    2. There’s something awfully… progressive about that idea….

  193. Be a shame if something were to happen to Newt’s plumbing tonight.

  194. And we can really complete the process of transforming the public schools into prisons.

  195. I think it might be a pro-Gingrich crowd there. Maybe. Just perhaps.

  196. Gingrich, mandatory work for the poor, for their own good.

    1. Yes, and they could be forced to live together in special houses to save on the commute, and also to help inculcate the right values. What would be a good name for these places?

      1. Communes? Wait, wrong party.

      2. Well, part of the purpose would be to help those people focus, removing distractions so they could concentrate on their work duties…so maybe concentration-something…?

      3. And then we could stop paying them directly, and just provide them meals and lodging, so they don’t waste their money.

        Oh wait — forced labor, living in camps, not getting paid… we’ll have to repeal the 13th along with the 4th and the 6th I’m already trying to repeal.

  197. Gingrich should have told minorities to take off their slippers.

  198. Crowd: “SHUT UP NIGGER!!!!!”

  199. They’re not saying Booo, they’re saying Newwwt

    1. Boo-urns sir.

  200. That question from Williams makes no sense.

    1. Still a lot better than the question from Stephanopolous.

  201. They’re booing the question?

  202. Gingrich, still an asshole.

    1. Yep, but watch his poll numbers jump.

  203. I honestly lost track of Newt’s line of reasoning there. It just sounded like he said “I believe JERBZ! DERP!”

  204. It’s Finger Pounding Newt time!

  205. “putting people on food stamps,” isn’t that code for something?

    1. Perhaps he means putting their images on food stamps, complete with commemorative editions, first day covers etc

  206. Sounds like a pretty large and involved government you envision, Newt.

  207. But only if that makes liberals unhappy.

  208. I will help poor people by making them get off their lazy asses, not that they will thank me.

  209. “fuck you jimmy hat”

  210. good answer newt!
    Now go away

  211. So Paul had a throwaway question about his attacks ads on Santorum, and two questions on the issues that Fox News thinks will most alienate him from South Carolina voters. It’s suicidally depressing that this bullshit is working on morons across the state this very moment.

    1. It’s pretty much the worst debate ever by Fox News. These guys are awful yet they have all the free time the roundheaded kid allows them.

  212. So how about a question for Paul on the economy?

  213. Fox News probably thinks asking Ron Paul about the newsletters will help him do better in SC.

    1. Dammit, I’m also drinking every time a comment here makes me laugh.

    2. Sadly, they’re probably right.

      1. Redneck outreach FTW!

  214. The douches in the commercial break on Fox News are douches.

    1. It pains them to mention Ron Paul.

  215. Foreign policy up next.

    “Ron Paul, why do you want to give Iran a nuclear weapon and then help them destroy Israel?”

  216. Holy shit! There are more women out there with two vaginas!

    How many vaginas are up on stage right now?

  217. From Andrew Sullivan’s liveblogging:

    “9.48 pm. Jeers and boos for someone whose grandparents were Mexicans. Wow. The rank xenophobia in the GOP base sometimes surprises. “

    1. So I guess you can’t boo Mexicans? Was it because they were Mexicans or because of what they said? At this point I doubt Sullivan is sane enough to know.

      1. That Mexican was Romney’s grandfather.

  218. They basically said that RP may have excited supporters but there aren’t many of them in SC, so that’s why they shouldn’t ask him as many questions as the others.

    1. Of course, they could assign speaking time based on polls, except then they’d have to give Paul more time than Santorum and Perry.

      They’ve done that pretty much all along in the debates, which is stupid, because 50 percent of the voters didn’t make up their mind until last week anyway.

  219. I’m out.
    I can’t take anymore of this

  220. I’m out.
    I can’t take anymore of this

  221. I’m waiting for someone to ask “Congressman Paul, you once wrote *insert racist remark from newsletter…” but before the question is finished, the crowd erupts with applause.

  222. Classy, Baier.

  223. Still thirsty?
    “fuck you jimmy hat”

  224. And here we go…

  225. Oh, I was wrong.

    “Ron Paul, why do you love Osama?”

    1. It all started one night in Paris

  226. Foreign policy, begin with Paul. You hate America, and that’s indefensible. Why?

  227. Ron Paul, why do you love terrorists and dead Americans?

  228. Dr Paul, you eat babies for breakfast. Explain why.

    1. As long as he doesn’t use salt -afterward

  229. God, the respect I have for Southerners is dropping with every crowd reaction. First SEC Football, now this.

  230. Giving Packistan billions and bombing them at the same time. That sums it up right there.

  231. Ron Paul needs to answer this question better.

    1. Paul wants congressional authority for all military actions.

    2. That was a painful moment. There are obvious, effective, clear answers to that question, but you could see his confidence flagging hard – like he felt cornered.

      But hey! At least he got the religious right to boo the Golden Rule. Totally worth the price of admission.

  232. Paul needs to finish a thought before he moves to the next question.

  233. Paul should say I wanted to get him in 2003 not wait until 2011.

    And stop talking.

  234. That response isn’t going to play in SC.

  235. We’re not in Iraq.

    1. We have “training” forces there, no?

      1. Nope. Not military anyway.

      2. We have a few USDAO folks (something less than 150) doing mil-mil exchanges and managing the arms sales. The training mission ended when the pre-Jan 1 SOFA terms weren’t extended.

        1. That would be news to a friends of mine in I MEF that just deployed there a few weeks ago..

      3. A few thousand paramilitary “contractors” don’t count, I guess.

  236. Why is Paul rambling?

    These SC folks can’t make it past a soundbite.

  237. At the moment, at least, Drudge seems to see Paul’s “zero taxation” answer as The Official Newsy Moment Of The Debate:

    (I’m increasingly convinced that Drudge is a Paul supporter, to some extent anyway.)

    1. I’ve thought that before too.

      1. He’s consistantly given him more credit than any other “mainstream media” outlet.

        (yes, I think at this point Drudge has reached a low-level of mainstream, he certainly gets the pageviews.)

    2. FYI, for those reading tomorrow, wondering what this means: Drudge’s page has been leading tonight with a Paul debate photo and the headline/quote: ‘TAX RATE SHOULD BE ZERO’

      If that winds up being the night’s big takeaway… well, cool.

  238. Terrible.

  239. There goes Ron Paul saying Iran has a right to nukes. You’re batshit insane Ron.

    1. stfu spoofer

      1. You said it fuckwit, own it.

  240. This is basically correct, but it’s sure a political rabbit hole that you don’t want to go down.

  241. Paul should also remind people that Bush said “I don’t worry about him (OBL)”

  242. Newt, please hit this out of the park, please.

  243. Fuck this South Carolina crowd.

  244. Did they boo Ron Paul’s Godwinning the debate?

  245. Mr Gingrich, please explain why Dr Paul is a treasonous terrorist-lover.

  246. Bret Baier hates Ron Paul and loves to assassinate people. Watch out Dr. Paul, Baier has a shiv for you after the debate.

  247. Yeah, that analogy was begging to be attacked. I have to agree with Newt on that small point.

  248. Fox News Producer: “Pan out to audience and win.”

  249. Jesus christ. What a bunch of bloodthirsty mindless idiots.

  250. Paul is in the wrong debate.

  251. How dare he quote the bible to us evangelicals!

  252. boooooooooooo

  253. Santorum is making sense.

    1. Mostly when he’s silent

      1. that wasn’t me, by the way. Seems I’ve got a fan.

        1. Prolly not drunk MNG. He’d add “is a moron” to your handle then fuck up and use his own.

  254. The bell makes a comeback while Ron Paul is speaking.

  255. Took Paul long enough to get there, but at least he finally delivered.

  256. Paul attempted to answer a question? BRING BACK THE BELL!

    Santorum is an asshole? Eh, let it pass.

  257. The “If other countries did to us what we do to them…” meme is a total loser.

    Memo to libertarians and anti-war activists Do not, EVER, Use it.

    1. It is. who do they think they are going to convince with that?

      1. Exactly,

        The forget that the point is to persuade people to our point of view, not moral masturbation.

        When I would argue against the Iraq war in 03 & 04 I’d always be accused by people that didn’t know me of some form of blame America for the world’s problems, that we aren’t good enough or some such blame America first bullshit. My response that I thought the opposite, that Irag or AfPak or wherever else wasn’t good enough for Americans to die for always made them STFU and think about their pro war position.

        1. Really good points and RP is a fool to use the ‘how it makes people feel’ “argument”.

    2. At least with this crowd.

  258. Tough-talking from people who have never served, and caution from someone who has

  259. Did they change the “out of time” sound from a bell to be booed.

    Is the Romney-Paul alliance officially over, by the way?

  260. kill ’em! kill ’em ! even if we don’t know who they are, kill ’em!


    So much for separation of church and state

    1. Doesn’t apply to Blacks or Mulattos.

  262. I thought Bush negotiated the pull out time table Mittens????

  263. There goes Ron Paul saying Iran has a right to nukes. You’re batshit insane Ron.

    1. Would you like to explain which part of natural law doesnt grant Iran the right to nukes? Maybe they dont have the right, but if they dont, no one does.

      1. Of course, regardless of your answer, it isnt our problem. Im perfectly fine letting Israel take care of it.

      2. Paul is running for president, not natural law professor.

        1. Its pretty much a prerequisite in my mind.

          1. He’s already got your vote.

      3. I don’t believe in Santa Claus, natural law, or tipping more than 15%.

  264. American exceptionalism yay! I may not agree with Paul entirely but every time the others open their mouths I hate more.

    1. Sorry but “we are just like the other losers” won’t win you many votes.

      1. Unfortunately “we’ll kill anyone more who takes affront to us killing them” does.

        You know there’s a fucking middle ground between “we’re the best and our killing is great” and “we’re terrible people just like the terrorists”

        1. If only Paul would go there.

  265. Fuck Fox News, fuck South Carolina, Ron Paul’s cool, fuck the GOP. I’m out.

  266. The audience boo’s the golden rule…

    1. Jesus was a faggot!


  268. Nice save on the rebuttal for Paul. But then again logic and philosophical principles won’t win over the crowd.

  269. We are under attack by people who have not successfully killed anyone on our shores in over a decade!

  270. Romney’s defense secretary pick? Jhoon Rhee

  271. Poor Paul. I’d be ready to cry, or say “fuck you, i give up” to the crowd and walk off the stage.

  272. these jerks are getting cheers for saying kill ’em, the hell with diplomacy


  274. Justin Bieber is sitting over Baier’s left shoulder.

    1. Make that his right shoulder

  275. It’s really disgusting how the crowd can’t comprehend that other people might have a right to their own lives.

  276. Romney, “our army will be so strong, no one will attack us, well except stateless terrorists”

    1. …except stateless terrorists incited by the actions of our awe-inspiring, world-occupying military forces. Actions that Governor Perry will tell you should never under any circumstances be termed “despicable”.

  277. let me guess, santorum is gonna say…KIL EM!!

  278. “Affectuate”?

      1. Is that Michelle Bachmann’s husband?

  279. How dare Paul ask us to think how we would logically respond to people coming into our country and killing our people?

    What an asshole. It’s like he doesn’t think that simply by dint of being American, everything we do is moral.

    1. In fairness, the dissident example was begging to be challenged. China executes people for far more mundane reasons than we do.

      1. If Paul compared us to China, he is a fucking loon and can go fuck himself with a ball bat.

    2. That is great but who does Paul plan to convince with that? People want a President not a confessor. The whole, we got what we deserved line is a dead fucking loser. The fact that Paul uses it makes me question his sanity.

      1. John, the point here is that we apply a completely different standard and then get surprised when it blows up in our face.

        Sorry, but maybe we need someone who stops applying differnet rules for me but not for thee. I know that the average American doesn’t want to hear it. But that tells you something- we’ve gone from a city on the hill to Laputa, raining rocks down on the lessers.

        1. Bullshit. We have always rained rocks down on lesser. And last I looked those lessers started the war. Paul is just a nut. What the fuck is wrong with him. He spends so much time whinning about how everything is the US’s fault. Just once I would like to hear him admit that gee maybe someone else in the world might be wrong. He never has a bad word to say about anyone but the United States. That shit gets old. And that is why he will never win the election.

          1. You are fucking full of it.

            Who did Paul want to issue letters of Marque and Reprisal against again? Was it Americans?

            No it wasnt, so shut the fuck up.

            Hell, its the current president who wants to detain Americans. How can you get more blame America than that?

          2. Team America John?

            Funny because when it comes to personal responsibility what you do matters a whole lot and hell yes you should defend yourself when someone takes a swing at you. But the individualistic reduction of the nation state is we’re the baddest motherfuckers so we can do whatever we want.

          3. He spends so much time whinning about how everything is the US’s fault. Just once I would like to hear him admit that gee maybe someone else in the world might be wrong. He never has a bad word to say about anyone but the United States. That shit gets old.


            he comes across as a stereotypical liberal on foreign policy with his cataloging of America’s sins.

            You can be anti war, anti interventionist and pro trade and pro-American by saying that America can’t and shouldn’t waste money in trying to civilize all the crazy fucks in the world. Instead, trade with them, lead by example and kill them if they fuck with us. Or put another way, Speak softly, but carry a big stick. Not that TR lived up to that standard, but it was a pro-American, non interventionist standard and light year better than how we operate today.

            1. This^

              Every time I talk to my dad about politics, I realize that he is the perfect Paul supporter – very anti-tax, against the police state/war on drugs, pro-entreprenuership and understands the horrible effects of regulatory power. But, he is a former Navy officer with an intense love of America and can’t abide Paul saying that we’re to blame.

              Whether or not it’s true doesn’t matter in an election year. Paul needs a more pro-America way to talk about staying out of other countries affairs and Maxxx’s line would be more convincing than “blowback”.

        2. John, the point here is that we apply a completely different standard and then get surprised when it blows up in our face.

          That may be true, and I am not saying that it is. But it is no way to win a presidential race.

  280. High tech lynching of RP.

  281. WTF, perry wants to attack turkey????

  282. 43% of the world’s military spending is not enough!

  283. Turkey is not being run by Islamic Terrorists. And I don’t think they receive any US Foreign Aid.

    1. Aren’t they? I thought they had dark skin, no?

  284. Perry Turkey fail.

  285. Perry is trying to be the Tebow of this debate again.

    1. Apparently he didn’t see the game this weekend.

  286. Paul seemed to fair much better with the Upstate crowd than with the Yankee transplants of Horry County.

    I still can’t get a working feed.

  287. If you don’t have AMURKA’S best interest in mind, we’re going to bomb you until you do.

  288. Perry wants to reunite pangea.

  289. Israel isn’t in fucking NATO Perry.

  290. I don’t think there’s enough war mongering going on here.

  291. No space between Israel and the United States? Does Rick Perry want to return to Pangaea?

    1. I can see Turkey from my backporch

    2. Yes, 🙂

  292. Unfucking believable. “Perry, would you like an opportunity to trash Paul too?”

  293. WTF, Perry just has to look like he wants to answer a question to get time?

  294. We should close all the space between us and Israel. To do that, I suggest we either move the United States to the Middle East or move Israel to us. We can flip a coin for who moves.

    1. Maybe we can annex Lebanon.


    1. If I could answer a question for Paul:

      “Today we celebrate Dr. King’s birthday, and his contributions to our nation. Next month we will honor past Presidents who served during our most challenging times.

      But every day, in the way we run our government, we are pissing on their graves, and we must stop.”

  296. What do you want to bet they don’t give Paul an opportunity to respond.

    1. Dam, should’ve taken that bet.

  297. I have a lot more respect for Perry. He was offered up a chance to bash Paul on a dish and went to bashing Obama.

  298. Hey, you’re named after one of my favorite Gillespie quotes 😀

    1. Woops, didn’t mean to post here lol.

  299. Getting applause on the backs of slain servicemen? Not offensive at all.

  300. Every time the crowd cheers for Gingrich, I lose a little more faith in humanity.

  301. Oh fuck Paul, you should not have asked for this time.

    1. I cringed too, but he did alright.

    2. Re: Tulpa,

      Oh fuck Paul, you should not have asked for this time.

      What did he say that was wrong, T?

      1. He was implying the Taliban are just people defending their country.

        Also, the Taliban are not the mujahadeen.

        1. Re: Tulpa,

          He was implying the Taliban are just people defending their country.

          And they’re not???

          Also, the Taliban are not the mujahadeen.

          How the FUCK do you know this? Did you know all of them by name? Give me a break, T!

          1. And they’re not???

            No, they’re not. Afghans were happy to be rid of them when the US invaded. Hence the guys lining up to get their beards shaved all over the country.

            1. You know, the worst part about American foreign policy is how expensive and ineffective it is. The Paki’s created the Taliban and used them to control a neighboring country for a few million dollars a year in direct costs directed by a few thousand (at the most and probably many fewer) employees. WTF? That is less expense and manpower than the US uses for a run of the mill Embassy in some bullshit country where we have minimal influence.

        2. Neither is the Taliban al queda.

  302. Oh, the Taliban sounds like the Republican party about not wanting foreigners here.

  303. A vote for somebody who wants taxes at zero is a vote for somebody who will help end agricultural city-Statism (civilization.)

    I wonder why they didn’t interview Paul for the movie END:CIV

  304. This crowd just regained a small amount of my respect.

    1. And now they lost it.

  305. AHAHAHAHA Fuck you Mitt.

  306. Those booers are going to get lynched.

  307. Did South Carolina just boo Romney?!?!?

    1. Well, that sounds pretty cool. For what was he booed?

      1. NDAA support.

      2. I thought it was for the backhanded praise to Obama.

  308. Mitt: It’s OK, the right people will be in charge.

  309. ‘Nuff said.

  310. “No one ever abuses this kind of power so relax!”

    1. Yeah, Obama is an enemy to America… except on this issue.

  311. I won’t abuse this power, and the President won’t either. WELL THAT’S ALL RIGHT THEN!

  312. Mitt: Trust me and Obama, we never lie.

  313. Yeah, cause WWII planes and a B2 Spirit are totally comparable, Mitt.

  314. Yes, that’s exactly what the Founders had in mind – a system that’s fine as long as it choses people that won’t abuse power.

  315. Boo, huh? Now I remember why I hated living in South Carolina.

    1. I think this time they booed indefinite detention, though

      1. I paused my DVR while I was out of the room. I’m running about 4 minutes behind right now.

  316. “Oh, well as long as you say you’d never abuse the power.” -Andy Levy

  317. Mitt:”Our Navy is made of tin winding toys! Our air force is made of stick and fabric airplanes!”

    1. Small navy? Not so sure about those numbers.

  318. Don’t ask Paul about the Consitutionality of indefinite detention! That may help him get supporters!

  319. Fuck, is Santorum making sense again?

  320. Santorum… actually taking something getting close to a rational position?

  321. So…. these assholes are already trying to power grab and they’re not even nominated yet. fuuuuuu….

  322. Dial it down a bit for South Carolina Paul

  323. Watch, they’ll take Paul’s next question away for doing this.

    1. LOL, I’m Nostradamus.

      1. He’s trying to pretend he’s a real candidate Tulpa. You forget- this is a REPUBLICAN debate.

    2. Glad I didn’t bet here.

  324. Paul is going off the reservation- “I will take a goddamn minute! And there is nothing you can do about!”

    1. And they took away his next question for asking for a response to the one that mentioned his name. Unbelievable.

      1. Yeah, it is almost criminally biased. We get it- the Socialist social conservatives aka Reagan Democrats who watch Fox don’t like Paul. Guess what?

        In 20 to 30 years, your audience will be Paul viewers. A large chunk of the R base will contain former Paul supporters. By pissing him and his followers off, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face in the long run.

        1. That’s why they have Fox Business Channel as a hedge.

      2. Re: Tulpa,

        And they took away his next question for asking for a response to the one that mentioned his name.

        As if the question the pretty chick was going to ask him really mattered.

  325. Fuck you Paul, for not answering us when we changed the question. We’re giving the next question to Perry.

    1. It’s alright, at least he got to answer a question that isn’t a fucking setup.

  326. Except give up on the American judicial system when dealing with minorities on drug offenses.

    1. Yep. He “misspoke”.

  327. Ron Paul: “Please don’t shit on the Constitution for crying out loud!”

  328. Tulpa called it. We’ll let Paul respond, but God forbid he gets to talk twice in a row like the rest of these idiots.

  329. Does Paul think any country in the world but the United States has ever done anything wrong? Is there a single problem in the world that Paul doesn’t view as the US’s fault? And is there any action any country could take against the US that Paul doesn’t feel would be somehow justified?

    If he would say a single positive word about this country and maybe just maybe a single negative word about our enemies, he might get elected. If he hates the country so damned much, why doesn’t he run for President of a different and better country?

    1. You don’t think it has something to do with the choice of questions?

      1. It is not this debate. It is every time I have heard the guy speak. When has he ever just come out and admitted that maybe the conflict with Iran is perhaps being brought on by them as well. That maybe just maybe people in the world dislike the US for reasons that have nothing to do with anything the US has ever done.

        OR that maybe this is still a great country. I am sorry, if you want to be President, you have to at least love the country. If the President doesn’t love the country, who does. I am not saying Paul doesn’t. But maybe he should show it once in a while rather than constantly attacking it and telling it that every bad thing in the world is its fault.

        1. If you’re trying to keep a mob from lynching a black guy for sleeping with a white woman, you don’t stop to agree with them on the immorality of premarital sex.

          1. That is a stupid answer. And that is why no one takes libertarians seriously. You really think there no argument whatsoever for any of our actions in the world. And that US invading Iraq or going into Afghanistan was like a lynch mob. That is weapons grade stupid. And that is why no one will take you seriously because you don’t seriously think about these issues.

            1. Oh please.

              The entire reason you don’t want to talk about the facts behind, say, the ongoing dispute between the US and Iran, is because you’re afraid that if you do that it might interfere with your war-lust.

              If you think there’s an argument for our actions in the world, make it. If you think Paul is wrong when he says that Americans would react like Afghanis if a foreign power invaded and occupied us, then prove that. (Good luck.) But saying, “Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah since you can’t be positive you won’t win the election!” is not actually offering an argument, John.

              You can say that Paul offers too many arguments for why America is wrong, but you know what? I haven’t heard a single argument – not one – from Romney or Gingrich about why America is right. Not one. They don’t even bother to offer one, because the scum in that audience don’t need to hear one. They just want to hear “ROAR blood KILL KILL KILL” and so that’s what they got.

              1. Yeah well you’re a war-mongerer. And Gingrich and Romney suck! Increase power to deflectors 60%!

          2. But that might be a good delaying tactic. What would Atticus do?

        2. When has he ever just come out and admitted that maybe the conflict with Iran is perhaps being brought on by them as well.

          The problem with Paul’s view is even more fundamental than that.

          For the sake of argument say that his analysis is correct and (not that I agree) America was completely at fault in the past and fucked over Iran completely.

          So What?

          Does that meant that the US should let Iran fuck over the US in 2012 as some kind of penance?

          1. And how the fuck are they going to do that?

    2. I think he did just say some positive things about our judicial system…

    3. Re: John,

      Does Paul think any country in the world but the United States has ever done anything wrong?

      He seems to be quite fond of the Constitution, J. Isn’t that enough for you?

    4. Ron Paul respects America more than anyone on the stage.

      He’s the only one who thinks America is strong enough that it can follow the constitution even in the case of terror suspects. All the rest of them apparently think America is a 90-lb weakling.

      1. Bullshit. He loves the constitution but then hates the country because he doesn’t think they ever follow it like he thinks they should. The country is not the Constitution. What the fuck does Paul like about this country besides the Constitution? Anything? And whatever it is, why doesn’t he emphasize that rather than the negative all the time?

        1. The country is the Constitution, as far as I am concerned.

          What the fuck else is it going to be?

          The rocks?

          The trees?

          The fucking scum sitting in that audience in South Carolina tonight?

          1. Ah the people in it. I think the people in it are a lot more than the Constitution. Are you guys really so fucking crazy that you think this country is a document and not people?

            1. There are people in every country.

              Why should I care about you? And not, say, the people of Nigeria?

              The only thing that makes the United States special in any way is that it is governed by a Constitution which (nominally at least) binds it to the respect of and defense of my rights.

              Without that, you may as well be a bunch of Nigerians. Honestly.

              You always bitch that you think I take a “blood and soil” approach to private property, but here you are falling back on the genuine “blood and soil” article. I care about America to the extent that she is just and right. The dirt and the rocks and the yokels mean nothing to me.

              1. The people here are not nigerians. And those princples didn’t come out of the sky. They exist because the people here created them and try to live by them. Just because they disagree with you about what that means doesn’t mean they are not trying.

                All I am saying is, you can’t win an election by basing your strategy on how much the country and everything it has done sucks and is a crime. And that is what Paul has done. And that is why he can’t win.

              2. And beyond that. Explain one thing to me. Explain one problem in the world the US faces that Paul doesn’t think is the result of our own actions. Is there any foreign policy issue that Paul doesn’t think is the US’s fault? Is there a single conflict in the world where Paul doesn’t think the US is on the wrong side?

                1. Explain one problem in the world the US faces that Paul doesn’t think is the result of our own actions.

                  Strategically, John, we face no significant threats of any kind. None.

                  We have sufficient military power to protect ourselves against literally any threat. We can suffer nuisance attacks, but that’s it. Once we reached a certain number of nukes in our arsenal, the United States was utterly immune to meaningful external attack.

                  That means that we actually don’t face any problems in the world. If we turn our backs on them, they disappear. All we have to do is not care.

                  It really has no bearing on the US one way or the other who governs Egypt (for example). We run around hysterically acting as though it does matter, but it doesn’t. Throughout history hegemony was important, so we continue to treat it as though it were important, by inertia, even though strategically it no longer is.

                  On that basis, it’s literally true that we don’t face any problems that aren’t the result of our own actions – if you include giving a shit in the first place as an “action”.

                  1. Fluffy, it’s not that simple. If the Strait of Hormuz shuts we’d be on our knees.

                    America can subsist at a 1950-level lifestyle indefinitely, I agree. But that ain’t the way we’re used to living.

                2. I agree it’s not good strategy, especially in S. Carolina. But then again, if we wanted a politician who just says what they think the audience wants to hear, we have Romney.

                  I think when you are arguing for change and what you will do different, you will pick the things you disagree with. He is trying to say what and why he would cut money, which no one ever wants to do. Plus, they are for the most part giving him questions that will make him look bad.

                  One can argue that, in retrospect, there was never a bomber gap in the 50’s, never a missile gap in the 60’s, and yet our foreign policy and defense spending was way overboard because we thought there were “gaps”. To say now that we wasted money and should never have done that is not to say the USSR was not a threat or that they are a better country. And if you look at the countries we have gone into over the years, the list is endless. The people in those countries (Iran, Nicarauga, the middle east, etc.) remember and present day problems can often be traced back. Paul knows that, just as in economic regulation, our knowledge is limited and we are just as likely to screw things up as we are to fix them.

              3. Why should I care about you? And not, say, the people of Nigeria?

                Because you were born here and live here and you care about the future of your kids that will live here?

                The most disgusting part of radical libertarians ideology stems from an insistence that everyone is, or should be, a rootless cosmotarian

                1. Because you were born here and live here and you care about the future of your kids that will live here?

                  Those would be prudential reasons to hope that nothing untoward happens to the US. And I do hope that. I am officially not in favor of an asteroid hitting the United States.

                  It’s not a reason to love it, though.

                  The only reason to love it that I can see is the Constitution. And some of the nobler acts that have been done to defend or advance the ideals embodied by the Constitution.

                  The most disgusting part of radical libertarians ideology stems from an insistence that everyone is, or should be, a rootless cosmotarian

                  Nationalism is a perfect combination of collectivism, black magic mysticism, and parochialism. That makes it a perfect fit for you.

                  1. The only reason to love it that I can see is the Constitution.

                    Congratulations you’re a religious idiot.

                    Fetishizing the constitution is a idiotic as fetishizing any other scripture.

                    The constituion did not create the geography of the US, nor the culture of liberty, nor the dynamic economy that derives from the prior two. At best the constitution acknowledges those factors and limits attempts to destroy them.

                    1. The Constitution and the culture of liberty are the same thing. The Constitution is our attempt to give the culture of liberty a permanent legal form.

                      And loving “liberty” is like loving “justice”. It’s inherently transnational. If I love “the culture of liberty”, then I have to love every man who advocates for liberty world-wide. Loving “the culture of liberty” forces you to be a “rootless cosmotarian”, if you’re not lying scum.

                      Sorry, geography is pretty, but not particularly loveable.

            2. No, the people in this country are actually people, not a country. See, they’re PEOPLE, with or without the whole country/Constitution part. You add in this little Constitution-dealie, and they’re making formal agreements with each other to establish LAWS which purport to abide by certain agreed-upon principles. Then they’re “a country”.

        2. Re: John,

          He loves the constitution but then hates the country because he doesn’t think they ever follow it like he thinks they should.

          Don’t equivocate. The government is NOT the country.

          1. The people elected that government didn’t they?

            1. Oh my god. I am bookmarking this argument and reminding you of it every time you argue with MNG and Tony.

          2. Don’t equivocate. The government is NOT the country.

            But that’s exactly what you and others here are claiming. That America = the constitution. The latter is nothing more that a charter establishing the structure of the government. So America = the constitution = the government is logically valid based on your previous statements.

            Natives realize that America = Americans. Meaning among other things that the culture of America is more important than the structure of our government because the only real guarantee of liberty is a culture that values it for its own sake. Lacking that, the form of government is irrelevant.

            1. The latter is nothing more that a charter establishing the structure of the government. So America = the constitution = the government is logically valid based on your previous statements.

              My icemaker produces ice. Therefore, ice = icemaker.

              1. No.

                The culture of America created the constitution, not vice versa. And cultural shifts have changed the constitution and further cultural shifts will destroy it.

                1. Natives realize that America = Americans.

                  There are American Nazis.

                  American Communists.

                  Charles Manson is an American.

                  America is an idea. I can appreciate and be grateful for other people who made that idea possible and contributed to that idea, sure. But that still means that the idea is the valuable thing and those people are demonstrating their worth by contributing to that idea.

        3. The Constitution doesn’t apply to the country, it applies to the government. It’s the government that doesn’t follow it.

        4. The people.

          Which is the country. The government is not the country.

          1. the peopel are the country. And who votes for the government? And since when has Paul ever made that distinction and ever had a kind word for the people of this country? Where is that rhetoric?

            I am sorry guys. But he just comes across as an angry old man. And that doesn’t get you anywhere. You are defensive about it because it is true and it is why he isn’t doing better and won’t win.

            1. All right, Tony, stop sockpuppeting John! It’s not nice!

            2. since when has Paul ever made that distinction and ever had a kind word for the people of this country? Where is that rhetoric?

              I think his actions in his primary profession prove his love for the people of the country. Rhetoric? Look at his fucking works.

              1. He was a doctor bfd. And he is a politician. It is about winning. And he is a loser. He can’t connect with a large number of people because he can’t bring himself to get over his bitterness about the government to do it. It is that simple.

                1. Are we arguing over what is right or strategy? You arent going to vote for him anyway, so why do you give a fuck about his strategy?

                  He is right. That is all that matters.

                  He was a doctor bfd.

                  It is a big fucking deal. Amongst other things it shows he can connect with a large number of people.

                  1. Che Guavera was a doctor too. Last I looked being a doctor didn’t mean you were a good leader.

                    1. It isnt the fact that he was a doctor, but how he acted as a doctor.

                      Ive never heard Che’s patients praising him.

                    2. Then maybe he should stay a doctor. Good for him but who cares?

                    3. You asked when he has had a kind word for the American people. His doctoring is the answer to that question.

                      Who cares? Apparently you do.

                2. >But he just comes across as an angry old man.

                  You’re projecting again.

                3. What’s not to be bitter about?

            3. I’m sorry, I don’t see the government as equivalent to the country. One can be bitterly opposed to the actions of the government without hating the country. As an example, I know you oppose the drug war, and are quite critical of law enforcement in general. Ron Paul’s criticism of our foreign policy is in the same vein. Also, keep in mind, we can only control our own foreign policy. It’s not that he thinks only we are in the wrong, but that we can’t control what goes on in other countries. Although I agree he perhaps doesn’t articulate things very well.

        5. There’s a word for a country that detains people indefinitely without trial, that tortures suspects for information, and that allows the ultimate leader to kill anyone he wants to just because he says they are a threat to state security. That word isn’t “America” — it’s “tyranny”.

          America once had a document called the Bill of Rights, the aim of which was to prevent tyranny. Criminal suspects were to be arrested based on warrants based on evidence. No one was to be compelled to testify against himself, or be subjected to cruel or unusual punishments. Death sentences were to be handed down only after public trials.

          Doesn’t anyone remember why the Soviet Union was called an “evil empire” by Ronald Reagan? Don’t they think that Lenin and Stalin “disappearing” their domestic enemies, spying on their citizens, invading other countries, and ignoring the rule of law had something to do with it?

    5. Um… John, do I have to explain to you the concept that you can disagree with many of the United States’ policy without hating the country itself?

      Or do I have to refer you to, like, any episode of MASH?

      1. Sure he can disagree. But he only seems to talk about the negative. I have never heard him admit even for a moment that there are two sides to the story. Everything is always this country’s fault.

        1. John, are you criticizing the rest of the candidates for not saying anything good about the Constitution?

          “They hate the constitution!”

          1. No I am criticizing Paul for coming across as an angry old man who can’t think of a single thing this country has done right in 50 years. That is why he can’t win the election. That dog only hunts so much.

            1. We’ll just ignore the policies of REagan which he supported, some individual planks on the platform of Dubya in Dubya’s first presidential campaign, which he supported, and the kind words he had for the writers of the U.S. constitution as they tried to clean up the mess caused by the collapse of the Continental.

              John, the vast majority of noteworthy things the United States Government does hurt people and are evil. Full Stop.

              And no matter how much you squirm, sputter and hiss your outrage, that remains the truth.

              1. Reagan had a way of making people feel like he believed in them and in the country. Paul doesn’t. And that is why Reagan won two elections and Paul is a loser. A dead fucking loser who will never win anything. He hung around Rothbard too much. It rubbed off.

                1. Go jerk off to Gingrich already.

                2. I agree that he is probably unelectable, especially if he does not start to say positive things about the US.

                3. “A dead fucking loser who will never win anything. ”

                  Except ten terms as Congressman, despite efforts of his own party to supplant him.

        2. I could write you Reaganesque love letters to America if this was 1980, John.

          It ain’t.

          That was 32 years of fuckuppery ago.

          And this entire whine of yours is a fucking dodge anyway. If Obama was one of the candidates on stage tonight, any one of the other Republicans out there would put on a fucking clinic of negative rhetoric. I’m going to have to remember to dangle my balls in your face and taunt you about how much you hate America every time you complain about Obama (or Holder for that matter) for the next 12 (or 60) months.

      2. Or would you like me to suggest some good television episodes from shows set in the 1960s?

        The Wonder Years had some good ones.

    6. If he would say a single positive word about this country

      He says a “single positive word about this country” every time he advocates for a return to the principles upon which it was founded. It’s not just implicit in his rhetoric — it’s basically tautological.

      1. The only think Paul seems to love about this country is the Constitution, which is a document not the country. And event hat is an excuse to explain what pieces of shit everyone is for not following his view of it.

        1. Well, Paul seems to think that if this country had more liberty, its people would use it well.

          I think Paul legitimately doesn’t like the government of the United States. I think he finds most of its actions bullshit. It is okay to have a problem with that. But, personally, I agree.

          And yes, given that that government was voted on by the people, most Americans are dumbasses. Sadly, everywhere else would be worse re:statism, which says sad things about the human race.

        2. Is this a spoof? I’m getting suspicious.

        3. John, Ron Paul got into politics because under Nixon the U.S. government had opened the sea-cocks the U.S. monetary system.

          He’s got plenty of nice things to say about the American people, the charitable organizations they have formed and the businesses they operate.

          The fact that he has unkind words about a government bent on looting them, pillaging them, murdering them, caging them and terrorizing them in no way makes him a bad man.

          1. A lot of people don’t view those wars as looting and pillaging. And when Paul goes off about that, he alienates a lot of people who would vote for him.

            And yeah, this country was attacked and thousands of people died. And people got very angry. And that old fucking bastard sits up there and explains how it was all our fault and we basically got what we deserved on 9-11 and how the Taliban is right, Iran is right, Saddam was right and we were wrong. He can think that. But it will be a cold day in hell before he wins an national election thinking that. As I said above, if America is so fucking immoral in Paul’s view, why doesn’t he just run for President of a nation more up to his standards?

            1. Probably responding to a spoof, but it’s completely different to say “the attack could have been predicted considering our actions” and “the attack was morally justified”. Obviously.

            2. This has to be a spoof.

              “A lot of people don’t view those wars as looting and pillaging.”

              Ah, yes. But let’s not worry about how those who are looted and pillaged view it. Not like they’d ever get pissed-off enough to, I don’t know…retaliate. Here at Halliburton, we call that the “Personifying the Enemy” fallacy.

              1. It’s not a spoof. John has gone full blown Republican retard in gearing up for the election to take out Obama.

        4. The only think Paul seems to love about this country is the Constitution, which is a document not the country. And event hat is an excuse to explain what pieces of shit everyone is for not following his view of it.

          Yeah, you know, I’ll actually grant you that: He probably cares less about America “the country” — some arbitrary collection of human beings on a particular plot of land on the globe — than about America “the idea”: the morality of individual liberty.

          I’m with him. Don’t get me wrong: I love all you guys — I adore our culture, I root for the U.S. in the World Cup and Olympics, I’d stick up for you in a bar fight because you’re American. But ultimately I’m far more enamored of the idea that America is intended to represent than of the land that happens to exist between the border of Canada and Mexico.

          1. That is great. Sorry but most of the rest of the country is a little hard nosed about it. And they are never going to vote for some transnationalist bastard who doesn’t believe in the country itself.

            1. You’re begging the question.

              1. Nah. Yer miss de point dude.

                1. And that’s for Tom because John is right.

                  Paul just shot himself in the left foot and then shot himself in the right foot whilst trying to draw from his holsters.

                  His campaign run is basically over. Nice try, so sorry.

                  1. His campaign run is basically over. Nice try, so sorry.

                    OK, cool. Great. Now, what does that have to do with Paul’s “love” of America, which is the actual question on the table here?

                    If you want to have a horse-race-politics argument about his election prospects, that’s fine. But it’s not actually relevant right here, and it’s not an actual rebuttal.

                    1. Ron Paul’s foreign policy “love” isn’t the kind that America wants. Which is why America isn’t going to vote for him.

                      We badly need what he’d do economically, there is no one else in sight that would even attempt his vision, let alone verbalize it.

                      But he’s never going to get the chance to do a thing because he’s blown it so badly on foreign policy.

                      He could have take more of a politician’s approach to foreign policy, and stayed a serious contender in this game. And he could have done it without being just another “bomb the world” idiot like we get from both the R’s and D’s these days.

                      I have wondered at times if RP really wants to win, or if he just hopes to maybe influence the game. But he just discredited himself so badly on foreign policy that his economic positions are probably now going to get completely ignored.

                      Or are you off on some other tangent? Not sure what kind of “rebuttal” you want, but “Ron’s was a righteous failure” does no one any good in the big picture.

                    2. He DOES want to win. Look, everyone has heard the saying that the best offense is a good defense. Well we can’t have a good defense when we are stretched out all over the world kicking down doors and bombing people in wakawakastan. I think there are a lot more people in the country who would like to see their dads, husbands, brothers, sons, wives, sisters, moms return home then you or John or Maxx are taking into account.

        5. John, it’s like when my dad asks me “how come you’re always so argumentative?” And I tell him: “it just seems that way, because it doesn’t take much time to hash out an agreement.”

    7. Considering the fact that all the other major candidates in this party are arguing with each other about who wants to bathe in blood MORE, I think it’s pretty obvious that we actually are a pretty fucked country and Paul is absolutely right to unleash a jeremiad of shit upon us.

      It’s hard not to have disdain and contempt for a country that elevates men like Gingrich and Romney to positions of prominence.

      Noam Chomsky should send these fuckers a fruit basket. They are bound and determined to take 30 years of his crazy lies and FORCE them to be true. They won’t rest until they have acted out in excruciating detail every last line of every crazy “America hating” screed ever written.

      1. That is great fluffy. But good luck with an election strategy of “fuck you”. Stop bitchign and whining when no one votes for Paul.

        If Paul doens’t like this country he can go fuck himself and he can be nothing but a has been footnote. That really accomplishes a lot doesn’t it?

        You people really would cut off your nose to spite your face. You can’t tell the people of this country what pieces of shit you think they are and then be shocked when they won’t vote for you. If Paul thinks he can, then he is the nut everyone claims he is.

        1. Do you think Jeremiah hated Israel or loved it?

          Since Fluffy brought him up, I thought it a legit point.

          1. Do you think Jeremiah hated Israel or loved it?

            Either way, the Israelis of the time hated Jeremiah and he was never elected president.

            But maybe your point is that the county will be in ruins in a hundred years and people then will look back and say “we should have listened to that Pual guy”

        2. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, and Rick Santorum are pieces of shit.

          Anyone who votes for them is a piece of shit.

          We can sit around and sing campfire songs about what a great country this is when those pieces of shit get off the stage and the people applauding them shut up.

          We’ve got a giant queef in magic underwear and a chickenhawk douche arguing with each other about who’s a better Klingon, and you’re pissed off that while that’s going on right in front of us no one is composing a love sonnet to America? Blow me.

          1. Good for you. But if you can’t identify with the majority of the country, you won’t win elections. No one wants to vote for their crazy bitter uncle for President.

            1. crazy bitter uncle

              Et tu, John?

              Since you’re pretty smart, and I kinda like you, I’ll ask you about this one: Why the “crazy” thing? I get that you disagree with him. I get that you think his his campaign rhetoric/mechanics won’t get him elected.

              But where does the “crazy” part come from? Even granting that you disagree with his assessments or conclusions, why does “crazy” spring to your mind?

              I’m asking sincerely. It’s a common attack against Paul and his supporters, and it honestly puzzles me. Paul is principled, and rigorously logical, and those premises + logic lead to places you happen to disagree with. And that’s fine. OK — you disagree.

              So why the “crazy”? I don’t get it.

              1. He is not crazy. I take that back. But he does piss me off by blaming all of the world’s problems on the Us

                My hyperbole Tom. I take it back.

                1. Well, you obviously aren’t alone. Start typing R-o-n P-a-u-l c- into Google, and Google Suggest will happily prompt you with “Ron Paul crazy” as your go-to search term, complete with 33.4 million hits.

                  So it is, safe to say, quite the meme. I’m just curious what gives off that vibe, exactly. It can’t just be his actual ideas. Clearly something leads his detractors to to this characterization: his demeanor, his tone, his look? I don’t get it — of course, maybe I’m crazy too — but he’s always struck me as just really earnest and engaged.

                2. I used to think he was a blame-America-firster, too, and totally rejected him for that reason alone. So I understand where you are coming from.

                  I’ve read a lot of his stuff in the past few years, though, and realized what he was saying. We’re losing our way as a country. The other guys just don’t address the issues properly, or even understand them.

                  We’re flying 1,000 mph into a brick wall, and many people just don’t seem to be able to recognize why. I think he is pointing to a way to avoid the catastrophe, and get back to being the undisputed best country ever.

                  Sorry he doesn’t come in your ideal form.

            2. Much better to vote for their violent in-bred cousin.

            3. But if you can’t identify with the majority of the country, you won’t win elections.

              So in 2008 you voted for Obama to identify with the majority of the country and thus “win” that election?

        3. I’m still missing the part where Ron Paul hates this country. But I’m realizing as I write this how utterly insane I am for continuing to read your posts.

          Are American soldiers not “people” enough for you, for Chrissakes?

          1. Fuck, I forgot! I always forget! It’s the monolith that matters…that’s what “people” really means. Stupid me. Carry on.

    8. Maybe this debate is about what America should do, not what other nations should do. While I wish Paul would clarify that, I’m pretty sure based on everything I’ve seen he’s talking about how we should work. If congress declares war for Paul I’m sure he’ll let the generals do their job.

      1. Why would he? When would he ask for war? If a country attacked us, in Paul’s view they would probably be justified for doing so?

        1. Did attacking and occupying Afghanistan fix our al queda issue. Because if they still exist as everyone is claiming, the answer appears to be no. Did attacking Iraq help protect Israel? We spend alot of time lashing out in big expensive ways.

          1. According to Donderoo he didn’t want to vote for Afghanistan. And his paleo supporters didn’t support that war. And what did Paul ever do besides vote for it and then turn against it the next day? BFD

            1. Donderooooo was lying.

              You really are quoting Dondero? Are you fucking insane.

              At the time, Paul was very clear on it. He supported war against Afghanistan and opposed Iraq.

              1. He doesn’t support it now. When did he stop?

                1. We the Taliban was removed from power? When we gave up concentration on Al Qaeda to go after Iraq instead?

            2. I’m not sure what you’re arguing. Paul wrestled with the going to war with Afghanistan, probably because of his fear of how badly it would turn out for us, but in the end decided it was worth it. I imagine a war declaration for war by Paul will be “go in, kill the bastards, get out”. Nation building is a failed policy.

              1. Nation building is a failed policy.

                Exactly. We should have left about 72 hours after Afghanistan had a new government. Its their job to keep the Taliban from returning. If they had returned, we could have gone back.

                We are good at being a military, not so much at policing.

            3. After Tora Bora there was no point to being in Afghanistan with ground troops.

              Osama’s address on the date of his capture proves that.

              There was no strategic reason to be there even if the WoT was sound overall. We accomplished nothing with boots on the ground we couldn’t have done cheaper and more effectively with air power. Once Osama escaped, the entire occupation was a fucking waste and the only reason we stayed was because Bush (and then Obama) were afraid that if we left someone might think they were weak.

            4. Holy Shit. You do an appeal to authority and you picked Donderooo as your source?

        2. John goes industrial strength retard.

        3. And again, he has never said we deserved to be attacked (thanks for repeating that lie). But if you don’t think that blowback is a rational explanation of why someone might attack us, go park your car in your neighbors driveway and when he comes to ask you to move it fuck his wife. Then tell me that blowback doesn’t exist.

    9. He has called for two wars in congress.

      Both times the House failed to pass them.

      Plus the letters or marque and reprisal he proposed.

      Which the House also failed to pass.

      If a country attacked us, in Paul’s view they would probably be justified for doing so?

      And bullshit. He is explaining actions, not justifying them. He was for attacking Afghanistan, but that doesnt mean he cant explain why Al Qaeda attacked us.

      1. Squirrels suck.

    10. I could write you Reaganesque love letters to America if this was 1980, John.

      It ain’t.

      That was 32 years of fuckuppery ago.

      And this entire whine of yours is a fucking dodge anyway. If Obama was one of the candidates on stage tonight, any one of the other Republicans out there would put on a fucking clinic of negative rhetoric. I’m going to have to remember to dangle my balls in your face and taunt you about how much you hate America every time you complain about Obama (or Holder for that matter) for the next 12 (or 60) months.

  330. Perry claiming he created jobs again. No dude, you just got out of the way of job-creators

    1. Future politicians could take a lesson from Perry’s getting the fuck out of the way.

  331. What… the fuck? Perry just argued for a part-time Congress…. his campaign is about to come to a screeching halt.

    1. what is wrong with that?

      1. nothing in the abstract. but from a purely political sense, it’s going to piss off a lot of the political powerhouses.

        1. No it won’t. There was an article, I think on the CATO blog, explaining how it already is part-time.

    2. Maybe Congressmen should make extra money working as janitors in the Capitol.

      1. You inhuman bastard. That would be a holocaust for the African-American working class.

  332. Perry: Listen bitch, I’m a pretty big deal.

  333. I actually make a decent answer to one question.

    Give me your vote!

  334. Because, Perry, of course a part-time Congress wouldn’t increase the power of the executive and moreover the bureaucracy.

    1. Part time president too?

  335. Unfortunately, Texas’ part time legislatures are still largely part time assholes.

  336. Wtf just happened? Did they cheer because Romney attacked Obama for cutting Medicare?


  337. Missing the platitudes broadcast, but:
    “Wikipedia may black out Wednesday in protest”……DTL&tsp=1 (or your fave AP reseller)
    It doesn’t cost them anything, since they get no ad income, but it *is* a statement.

  338. Vote for me, I’ll pay you more money in your government check.

  339. Romney Pac is going to make ad of Obama throwing old people off cliff.

  340. “Historian” DRINK!

  341. As a historian, fuck you.

    1. You work for fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?

  342. I imagine the real Bernanke is as douchey this fake Bernanke.

  343. If I never hear from “Historian Newt Gingrich” again it will be too fucking soon.

  344. Angels’ overrated pitcher Joel Pineiro is the President of Chile?

    1. Dude, he just signed a minor-league deal with like Detroit or something.

      1. Well, my plan to bait you still worked. That it came at the expense of looking like an idiot is a cost I’m willing to endure.

  345. John, are you in partisan douche mode again? I knew letting you near that gamma radiation was a mistake. Your way less fun when you’re being played by Lou Ferigno.

  346. If our economy was based on record high copper prices, we’d be probably be in pretty good shape too.

  347. Does Gingrich not come off as an arrogant used car salesman?

    1. Cause he says Chill-ay.

      1. Time for a background check. Make sure his grandparents aren’t from Mexico.

    2. For you I give good price.

    3. He’s more like an arrogant, ageing, unhinged philanderer. Oh wait…

  348. If you make it voluntary, but the government runs it, it’s the best system. Reagan namedrop.

  349. Dr. Paul, if you had to walk backwards, would you rather walk backwards downhill in clogs, or backwards uphill in flipflops, which would you choose, and why do you hate uhmerica?

    Mr. Gingrich, as a historian, would you care to respond to Dr. Paul and explain why he wants to nuke iIrael?

    1. Israel

      yes, I’m drinking

  350. Picking winners and losers is still a free market solution if the competitors are foreigners.

  351. yes it is rick, manufacturers aren’t the only ones who need tax relief.

  352. I think more brackets would really help Santorum.

    1. They didn’t help [HERCULE].

  353. GOP Debates 2012: A bunch of assholes selling slightly different versions of the same shit sandwich and assuring you how good it tastes…. oh, and Ron Paul is standing on the stage too.

  354. I love this. Sounds much better than “governor.” I AM GOVERNMENT!

  355. FIrst, we need to balance the budget, then we need to outlaw homosexuality.

  356. Santorum: Touching seniors is not inappropriate.

    1. +1

      Newt can get some poor inner city kids to clean up all the resulting Santorum.

  357. the best part of this debate is they are all showing how bad mitt’s plans are

  358. So, Paul has gotten what… 6 questions? 5?

    Perry has gotten close to 8 or 9? Despite polling worse?



    1. Why? We don’t want to make him look GOOD.

  360. Let me guess, no one will call Newt out on not actually balancing the budget but just finding new places to bury the Social Security IOUs.

  361. God newt is an appeal to authority whore.

  362. I agree with you Newt, I want a huge government, I just want it for different things.

  363. Newt is smart and should be in the Cabinet of president ron paul

    1. Yeah, but don’t unlock it, no matter what you hear.

  364. Send it in a block grant back to the states instead of not taking the money from the states in the first place because fiscal federalism isn’t just a clever way around the Tenth Amendment.

  365. I can balance the budget without touching the second biggest budget buster!

  366. Setting up new accounts to take on more debt is basically what you did at Bane, Mr. Romney.

    1. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Maybe we can buy Mexico and sell it to Canada.

  367. Ohhh Fuck. Social Issues in South Carolina.

    I’m out. Good night all



    this is the worst one so far

  369. So… was that the economic portion of the debate? Because if so, why didn’t Paul get a fucking question?

    1. It’s the “Romney Gets To Explain Himself” show, not a debate, silly anon.

  370. They completely blow Paul off on all economy questions. Wow, just wow! Complete hack job.

  371. I got 10 on Paul getting 4 questions in this coming section alone.

  372. So if RP gets social and foreign policy questions during the economy portion does that mean he gets an economy question during the social issues portion?

  373. If you laid these guys end to end…

    1. You’d feel dirty by the end

  374. all fox wants to do is try to expose paul as a foreign policy wacko. he ROCKS on economics, fox is such s romney whore

  375. So, the only topic Paul has gotten significant questions on is foreign policy, where it is pretty well known that he is out of step with current GOP thought.

    Meanwhile, on issues like trade, or government spending, where Paul holds real appeal for the GOP, he is ignored.

    At the same time, his opponents, who poll worse than him in a number of cases, get the questions.

    Yep, Fox, keep those true conservative credentials. Remember: Grandma doesn’t like that icky Ron Paul fellow who doesn’t think that the hoodlums should be locked up for the devil weed.

    1. That last sentence. I love you.

    2. Or, if they would ask, ‘Mr. Romney, on your Iraq policy. If you poke a hornets nest do you not expect to get stung? When the price of gas goes through the roof due to your saber rattling, aren’t you essentially giving money to Al-Qaeda given the Saudi’s so called royal family is a big sponsor? Whose terrorist have killed more Americans, Pakistan’s or Iran’s? Any plans to disarm their nuclear programs?

      You know, anything that doesn’t assume status quo policy is just gravy and free blow jobs.

      1. WHOA! Whoa there! That is not only crazy uncle talk, you just proved that you HATE AMERICA. Do you have anything to say for yourself?

  376. I say just give Obama another 4 years, then have the GOP wash its hands and hope they can come back with something better in 2016. Aside from Paul these guys are horrid.

    1. It won’t happen. The establishment wants the power of big government just as much as the Democrat establishment.

  377. Superspy Flo?

    Did I really just see that?

  378. Ron Paul, why do you want kids to be molested by gays? Why did you deliver babies when you really want to kill them? Why do you want to put crack cocaine in our breakfast cereal?

  379. Great question from Juan Williams to Mitt Romney regarding guns.


    1. This would be a prime time for someone to separate themselves from the other candidates by pointing this out.

  381. I’ve been watching Pawn Stars since 9:00PM (10 EST) and only changing the channel to the debate when the live stream shows that he’s up. It has been painful to see up till now, so obviously partisan.

  382. Ugh. I was not planning to drink, but I AM sorely tempted.

  383. WEDGE ISSUE time

  384. I play a Warlock.

  385. Romney is as bad with remembering game animals as Perry is with departments.

  386. Moose lobby just bailed on Romney.

  387. These are actually pretty good questions so far.

  388. Mitt – I’m not going to talk about my hunting exploits… but they were great. I’m a manly man. Vote for me. I even killed a moose once… or was it an elk? Maybe it was just a tin can with a bb gun.

    1. Alpaca? No, maybe it was a sheep. I don’t know.

    2. We already missed our chance to elect a real hunter.

  389. kill em kill em kill them elk! like we kill the brown people in afganistan

    1. a m??se once bit my sister.

      1. I shot my sister-in-law’s cat, does that count?

  390. Bonn A Fee Days?

  391. Ron Paul is good on guns from SC’s perspective, so if he gets a ? here it’s all right.

    1. Of course, they ask him about not enacting a federal law protecting gun-makers from lawsuits….

  392. NRA, weak on gun rights, just like anal leakage

  393. Juan Williams said bona fEEdes – Huh, huh, huh!

  394. Did I hear correctly – Santorum attacking Paul on the 2nd Amendment???

  395. LOL, bring it on Santorum.

  396. If Romney can’t even see the difference between an elk and a moose, how can we know that he would bomb the right country?

    1. Right one? As long they have darker skin than us and talk funny.

  397. Logrolling is totally cool guys. Ron Paul is a wacko for not logrolling.

  398. Santorum gets Paul a chance to speak.

  399. Really Santorum? That’s all you got son?

  400. Paul seems to piss his opponents off the most when he’s laughing his ass off at them.

  401. Time to hate the 10th amendment!

  402. Santorum doesn’t understand federalism, as if we didn’t know that already.

  403. Santorum has a lot of questionable “facts”, doesn’t he?

    1. He is way out of his league on this issue

  404. The Tenth Amendment would destroy our Second Amendment!

  405. That wasn’t 30 seconds to respond. WHAT THE FUCK.

  406. Seriously? Without the federal law, no guns would be manufactured in the U.S. Santorum has just swan-dived off the deep end.

    1. And he was allowed to just lay it out there and the moderators cut RP off.

  407. By all means, say Romney’s name so he can talk more.

  408. Ron Paul has so much genuine knowledge of how the government SHOULD work, and 30 years of experience about how it DOES work – he really knows economics and monetary policy, – my god how could anyone think of voting for that ignorant harvard part-time lecturer in the WH?

  409. Ok, decent burn from Gingrich.

    1. Not really. The law prevents candidates from coordinating Super PACs.

      1. Yeah, but the slack jawed troglodytes watching this don’t know that.

  410. Now I find a working link:…../index.php

  411. Wasn’t suing gun manufacturers like, the exact plot of Runaway Jury? Can’t remember if it was the book or the film, but it’s shit like that that makes me hate Grisham.

    1. Film. Book had tobacco companies as the target.

      1. They were negligent in selling a weapon that worked as intended?

    2. That’s the problem. I hate the thought of federal tort reform but I could easily see Brady handgun control group using juries in NY or CA to bankrupt US gun manufacturers. How would the folks here deal with that?

      1. It hasn’t happened yet. Even liberal attorneys need some scant thread of logic to cling to. Selling a working product that does what it is advertised to do doesn’t give them much to sue over.

  412. Now I find a working link:…../index.php

  413. Reagan namedrop again. Mexico isn’t China.

  414. Gingrich is sad when he thinks he’s clever. WTF? Ripping Romney for not having control over Super PACs?

  415. Santorum: “I protected the 2nd Amendment by eviscerating it! Ron Paul, instead, almost killed the 2nd Amendment by not being centralist enough!”

  416. Quit complaining about getting attacked in ads, Gingrich.

  417. “If Willard can’t influence his super pac how will he influence his administration?”

    Love it.

    1. “It’s illegal for me to tell Super PACs what to put in their ads. Is that correct, Newt?”


    2. None of the do. Who says I have to like any of them? Paul rubs me the wrong way with his constant whinning. There really doesn’t seem to be a single problem in the world that isn’t the US’s fault. My God if we put Paul in there we will never have another enemy in the world and world peace will reign. He just drives me up the wall with that stupid shit.

      That doesn’t make Romeny or Gingrich or the rest of them any better. But I am not giving Paul a pass on his peacenik Rothbard, get the US out of North America horsehit he is sellling.

      1. Give it a rest all ready. Dear God John.

      2. There is a website. It is called Hot Air, or Hot Gas according to some. You’d like it. Just throwing that out there…

    3. None of them do. Who says I have to like any of them? Paul rubs me the wrong way with his constant whinning. There really doesn’t seem to be a single problem in the world that isn’t the US’s fault. My God if we put Paul in there we will never have another enemy in the world and world peace will reign. He just drives me up the wall with that stupid shit.

      That doesn’t make Romeny or Gingrich or the rest of them any better. But I am not giving Paul a pass on his peacenik Rothbard, get the US out of North America horsehit he is sellling.

      1. Seriously John, it’s like you’re channeling Tony here or something. Among the set of all problems caused by the US, you will find only problems caused by the US. If you discuss that set, it will appear that you think the US is wrong in all cases, because by definition, you do.

        Of course, if you dishonestly misconstrue that set as containing all of the world’s problems, as you do above, you’re going to come to some bogus conclusions, as you also do above. That’s not what Paul is selling; it’s only what you want to hear him selling, and you’re being successful in doing that.

  418. much less any of the other ignorant turkeys up there beside him


  420. Romney just cut off Newt’s balls and force-fed them to him.

  421. John – which Team Red operative is giving you your marching orders?

    You said a month+ ago that you wouldnt be voting for Paul, but as his poll numbers have risen, you have gone fucking nuts attacking him. Is this a try out for your talk radio show?

    Lets make this simple — The deficit is the single biggest issue* in the history of America, it will destroy America if we dont solve it, possibly this election. And there is exactly one candidate# running who can fix it. Nothing else fucking matters.

    *okay, post 1865.
    #Johnson too.

    1. None of the do. Who says I have to like any of them? Paul rubs me the wrong way with his constant whinning. There really doesn’t seem to be a single problem in the world that isn’t the US’s fault. My God if we put Paul in there we will never have another enemy in the world and world peace will reign. He just drives me up the wall with that stupid shit.

      That doesn’t make Romeny or Gingrich or the rest of them any better. But I am not giving Paul a pass on his peacenik Rothbard, get the US out of North America horsehit he is sellling.

      1. You are driving me up the wall with YOUR constant shit “whinning” about Ron Paul.

      2. Except he isn’t doing any of that so sit down and stfu.

  422. Just lost the Sasquatch vote.

  423. Santorum hates states rights. Gingrichs hates non-Gingrich rights.

  424. Newt’s philosophy in a nutshell:
    “Only the *correct* facts should be put in.”

  425. Big foot is a hoax? Next think he’ll say STEVE SMITH isn’ real too

  426. Jesus, you’ve just admitted you have the same fucking control over your superpac as Romney has over his, Newt.

    1. Uh, they do have the same control over the super PACs. ie, none.

      1. That’s the point, yet Gingrich tried to zing Romney on it.

        1. Oh I see. For some reason I thought you were attacking Mitt, which is not the case.

          1. When in doubt, assume I’m attacking Gingrich.

  427. There goes Ron Paul saying Iran has a right to nukes. You’re batshit insane Ron.

    1. Answer my question from above.

      1. That’s a spoofer.

          1. I’ve been spoofed several times on this thread.

              1. So are your White Indian posts.

                1. I am not but I still give you the benifit of the doubt

  428. And now Romney is now against both Citizens United and McCain Feingold.

  429. The First Amendment actually means what it says.

  430. Ouch, awkward ride home with McCain tonight.

  431. I am spending a sunny afternoon watching two old men having a sissyfight over Super-PACs. Help!

    1. Sunny afternoon? FUCK YOU FOREIGNER!

      1. Sunny and 24 degrees Celsius. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.

        1. How about skin cancer?

  432. I wasn’t going to drink, but this fucking debate…

  433. Governor Perry, look at my boobs and pearl necklace.

  434. Romney makes a good point on campaign finance

  435. Kelly Evans is pretty hot

    1. Sure, if you ignore the beaver teeth.

      1. Picky, picky, picky.

  436. I am so sick of this audience! Someone duct tape their hands together.

    1. The audience at the first debate last year, also in South Carolina, was pretty good. They forgot to screen out the Ron Paul supporters for that one.

  437. Unleash the Predator Drones!

  438. Perry: Congress would be part-time, the rest of the time they’d be shooting Romney’s dad at the border.

    1. With RPGs or with the drones he plans to issue each border state family?

  439. Rick Perry has never built a fence around a garden, let alone an entire country.

  440. I will have a Bible duct taped to my hand the entire time I am in office.

  441. Perry: I just git ur dun, I don’t care about things like cost or geography or logistics.

    1. No, but candidates can tell people to cut it out legally.

  442. Yeah, Newt has sympathy for non-English speakers. Holy crap.

  443. Parents need to learn too!

  444. Did Gingrich just steal Paul’s answer on education?

  445. Romney lost the BFRO vote.

  446. AHhahahaha, oh wow. Ron Paul didn’t even get a single question. If it weren’t for Santorum he wouldn’t have gotten to speak.

    1. Paul is not a serious candidate like a Huntsman so valuable question time should not be wasted on him.

  447. Ugh. The debate audience made me vomit in my mouth.

    South Carolinans, please tell me that these asshats aren’t representative of your state?

    1. “South Carolina is too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum”
      -Some dude over 150 years ago.

      1. I was born in SC. The coastal area is et up with Yankee transplants now.

  448. Disgraceful debate moderation. Bomb Fox News.

  449. HAHAHAH getting up to leave so fast.

  450. 10:47: I hate to be a spoilsport, but repealing all campaign-finance laws does NOT allow you to get rid of private citizens spending money how they feel like to make advertisements about politics.

    True, but the Super PACs are largely a product of campaign contribution limits.

  451. If this crowd is in any way representative of the voting public in South Carolina, I’m significantly scaling back my hopes for Paul for Saturday.

    1. The upstate people aren’t so bad.


  453. I just realized it’s Myrtle Beach – no wonder the crowd is so raucous – they’re a bunch of drunk college kids on break.

    1. In January?

      1. In January?

        Yep. In January, Myrtle Beach is just all the Horry County locals plus a bunch of Yankee/Canadian snowbirds.

        1. Horry County is full of people who found it is cheaper than living near the “shore” in New Jersey and Maryland.

          The upside is you can find passable pizza there now.

  454. 3 hours of Shticky ads would be better than this.

  455. I just realized it’s Myrtle Beach – no wonder the crowd is so raucous – they’re a bunch of drunk college kids on break.

  456. Visit Myrtle Beach, where we have a big fucking ferris wheel!

    1. I watched a few minutes of it. Looked a lot like that bad ABC Fast Forward show. Made me kinda miss VR 5 and Sliders.

  457. This post debate thing is pretty awesome. They stopped sucking Romney’s dick for at least two minutes.

  458. Nicely done, Paulbots. Fox has to acknowledge the results because to call Paul supporters out for being tech-savvy would be to reveal their graphics as completely meaningless.

    1. Does anyone have a screen shot of the graphics, showing Paul dominating the Twitter reaction? I bet Fox never airs them again.

  459. Still, they tried to make Romney and Gingrich the two main contenders.

  460. I’m confused, how does most of the GOP feel about bombing muslims?

    1. If it’s between bombing muslims or watching porn, bomb muslims.

      1. I always watch porn as I am waiting on the bombs to land.

    2. It doesn’t have to be muslims.

    3. But then the Palestinians would move here to continue the fight.

      1. This is supposed to be under Epi’s He should just wedge Israel in between Mexico and the United States comment below.

    4. But then the Palestinians would move here to continue the fight.

    5. I’m confused, how does most of the GOP feel about bombing muslims?

      I’ve had a thesis percolating in my brain lately, and I’m just jumping in mid-thesis here, so this might not make perfect sense, but: The America that loved baseball was a far better place than the America that loves football.

      Something happened to us during the past half-century. We went from cool, quiet, self-assured manliness to this goofy, cartoonish, whoop-yo-ass, overcompensating-testosterone shit.

      The decline of baseball and rise of the NFL is a perfect analog to all this and … sorry, I have no idea why I’m randomly injecting these thoughts here at this point in the thread, except that it’s just an idea that’s been on my mind lately.

      1. Are you saying that 50’s America was Ted Williams refusing to tip his hat, and 10’s America is some asshole doing an end zone dance and then taking out a sharpie or a cell phone?

      2. Ty Cobb sliding with spikes up…

        Pitchers beaning batters for getting too close to the plate…

        Pete Rose smashing into catchers in an exhibition game…

      3. It is a combination of a literal testosterone deficiency brought on by poor diet and environmental estrogen analogues, and the male identity crisis foisted upon us by the comprehensive effectiveness of politically activist feminism in changing gender roles and more importantly, public education, which has systematically pathologized, marginalized and even tried to medicate away every behavior consistent with basic boyhood through adolescence and young manhood. Why else would the modern “bro” exist? It’s like a developmental stage that can’t be skipped, but in our society is delayed into the mid to late 20’s. This is why someone had to make “”

        And, there is a good chance that your testicles are smaller than your fathers, through no fault of your own (or his). Plastics, soy, obesity caused by hi-carb grain-based diets, and many commonly prescribed prescription drugs have caused the average modern male’s testosterone levels to be 1/3 to 1/2 what they were just a generation ago. Meanwhile, the forces of political correctness and radical feminism have diminished the cultural spaces in which men can actually BE men, narrowly circumscribing sports and entertainment as our only outlet for such tendencies, which has had the perverse effect you have noted. When you can’t even be an aggressively competitive, type A personality at work, you have to at least live vicariously through the hyper-violent, cartoonish exploits of you favorite NFL/WWE/MMA star, or you and your shriveled testes would just… DIE! Meanwhile, all those clever TV commercials and sitcoms mock us men for being bumbling idiots and emotionally stunted manchildren…

        This is just a theory, though.

        1. You know what they call ‘manly’ now, ‘creepy.’ That’s how they make it socially unacceptable to be manly. I have been fired from no fewer than four jobs for being too manly. Hey, hey, now; you all stop that giggling, I’m serious here! Don’t make me do a staring contest on your asses. You’ll lose!

        2. …public education…systematically pathologized, marginalized and even tried to medicate away every behavior consistent with basic boyhood through adolescence and young manhood.

          I hate Jezebel as much as the next guy, but I have to ask:

          I’ve seen this claim a few times, and I’m not entirely sure what this means.

          What behaviors are you talking about?

          Because other than raping girls and beating up fags, I can’t think of any male adolescent behaviors that public education has pathologized.

          1. The desire to make things, to take things apart and figure out how they work, to argue, to ask questions, to debate and investigate, to run around and exert one’s self physically, to openly compete for status and rank; as opposed to sitting still and accepting the rote list of answers and seeking to please the teacher by regurgitating them with a smile, without ever getting your hands dirty or making anyone feel bad for not earning the gold star.


          2. Burping, farting, swearing, picking at things, playing with reptiles, etc.

            1. Those, too.

            2. Being disruptive, wanting to play with toy weapons, wanting to fight and compete, etc.

          3. The vast majority of ADHD diagnosis are just kids, almost all boys, being themselves and responding to their environmental stimuli (or lack thereof) in a developmentally appropriate way. But rather than adapting the environment and the educational experience to fit these poor kids, they just get drugged out of their minds. That is the biggest and worst example of pathologizing young male behavior there is. There’s a time in a boy’s life where he should be adventuring out in the real world, at least a good part of the day, as opposed to sitting still and staring at a blackboard. Boys in Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer’s day would never have stood (or rather sat) for that.

            1. + a whole bunch.

        3. I don’t know about my dad, but my testes are definitely bigger than that weirdo at the playground when I was a kid.

        4. And, there is a good chance that your testicles are smaller than your fathers,

          Something that I, personally, will never know. And I’m OK with that.

      4. I think that it’s a case of the world becoming too damn civilized. Even in the 50s, most of those dudes had fought in either WW2 or Korea, or had helped the war effort out. Going back a few generations, our ancestors survived crime and gang ridden cities (on a level we just can not comprehend) or the forces of nature/Indians. They didn’t need to prove their worth- their very survival proved their worth as men. It meant that you had weathered drought and fire, twisters and hurricanes, and survived it only with the help of friends and family.

        If you were raised in the 60s or later, the worst danger was lawn darts. Kind of a step down, no?

        Also, for the whole masculinity thing, I’m just going to plug The Art of Manliness, which is just an awesome site.

      5. Interesting idea, TomD.

      6. “Baseball is what we were. Football is what we have become.” ? Mary McGrory

  461. Naturally, let’s not ask the only person on stage who voted for NCLB about the success of the controversial NCLB.

  462. Wow, so the debates over and the Twitter analyst said Ron Paul dominated the debate, so let’s totally ignore this and talk about Gingrich and Romney.

  463. We basically ignored Ron Paul, so we had a real debate tonight.

  464. 10:48: I WANT A DOUBLE-FENCE. “That border will be locked down,” Perry says.

    He should just wedge Israel in between Mexico and the United States.

    1. Will Paul get a chance to talk to Hannity? Or just a few of them like Romney and Newt and Santorum?

      1. Don’t be ridiculous. Rick Perry might get on in addition to the other three.

        1. Did Hannity stop dyeing his hair to get some gravitas? If so, it hasn’t worked.

  465. Just horrible. We are so screwed.

    At least they didn’t cover up Paul’s positive Twitter assessment.

  466. I always watch porn while I am waiting for the bombs to land.

  467. Roddick’s after the Murray match. How can Roddick not be playing in Prime Time?

  468. I always watch porn while I am waiting for the bombs to land.

  469. Frank Luntz says Newt Gingrich won this debate. Make of that what you will.

    1. Well, we know Ron Paul couldn’t have won it because… well, just because. And Newt got the biggest cheers for his Andy Jackson line, and didn’t obviously soil himself. That, presumably, is enough to win. The bigger question is what, exactly, he won

      1. The Confederacy. He won the Confederacy. Like his predecessor, Jefferson Davis, Newt’s pretty much a goddamn communist.

  470. So, reason, what cheap gas station beer should I go with?

    Corona? Guiness? Fosters?

    They all come in the big bottles.

    1. Corona. It is water but it is drinkable water. Fosters is piss. And Guiness only works out of a good tap.

      1. John, I take back everything I said. I love you when you get all Lou Ferigno. But you have Ang Leed it up at points this evening.

      2. The ping pong ball cans are good.

        1. Necessary to keep it from turning into mud.

    2. Guinness is stale bog mud. Fosters only works if you drink it out of the tap.

      1. Have you just insulted the greatest tap beer in the world? Why yes, chris, yes you have.

        A duel at dawn. You choose the weapons. For my second, I choose P Brooks, because being from the West Coast he would just show up late anyway.

        1. Dirigibles, but no weapons more technically advanced than a mag-rail or third generation cruise missile.

          1. My second, hmmm, tough one. Goldwater! Practically a Bond villain name. How he did not get elected president in that era, I don’t know. Oh yeah, the dead vote Democrat.

            1. Get the Redneck Riviera Syndicate united with LBJ’s partners in crime, the Chicago mob, and you got you a recipe for a dead casts land slide.

          2. My man servant is preparing it as we speak. And I pray for your sake you dress for the occasion. It would be tragic if you were to both lose AND be seen using only a whale bone monocle, as opposed to the traditional orphan bone monocle favored by true gentlemen.

            1. My parachute is a stuffed Condor, my shoes are made of the wood of Stradivaris. So, I’m good.

              1. I hate condors. Any bird that eats paint chips deserves to go extinct.

                1. Funny coincidence, the paint chips is why I randomly Capitalize words.

        2. Sorry, but the best tap beer in the world is Zeigenbock. But I think you can only get it in Texas. You know, God’s Country.

      2. You appear to have only drunk Guinness here in the states and probably only out of cans at that. For that you may be forgiven. For until you have drunk a pint drawn from a tap somewhere on the Emerald Isle, you have not tasted Guinness.

        Now, should it be that you have in fact tasted that Irish ambrosia and you still hold that opinion, then it can only mean you are a cute Cork whoor and favor that swill pulled from the Lee and sold as Murphys. And for that you will not be forgiven.

    3. PBR or Lone Star If you’re buying quarts get the Corona Familiar(NOT the clear bottle) or Tecate if it’s the cheapest.

  471. Roddick match isn’t on until after midnight. Who schedules this crap?

  472. Fox News: “We report, you decide, but we should not that his graph showing a lot of support for Ron Paul is like totally not scientific.”

  473. Always keep in mind that Gingrich got a big applause line in when he came out in favor of exterminating the Cherokee and stealing their land in defiance of a signed treaty and the order of the Supreme Court.

    This marks the second time Gingrich has hailed Jackson’s genocidal thievery as a model of appropriate Presidential action.

    And the SC audience applauded.

    (Insert joke wishing something bad on SC here.)

  474. I’d just like to apologize for lying earlier, Ron Paul never claimed Iran had a right to nukes.

    I’m a liar.

  475. Only good thing that happened in that debate was the NDAA question to Romney.

    But if Prez Romney wants to lock up anybody he says so, at least he’ll let us have guns so we have a fighting chance to escape or something. Obama’s such a bitch, he won’t even cut us that break.

    Oh yeah. Paul got very little time and came off terribly on the bin Laden question, I thought. Had some good moments, but this was the weakest debate performance I’d seen from him.

    Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

  476. Less than 900 posts. Poor form reasonites!

    1. No shit, but it’ll get there.

  477. So, now that Ron Paul has committed political suicide for the second time, over the exact same issue, is there any reason to suffer through another one of these debate thingys?

    Before it was at least amusing to watch the establishment freak over Ron Paul’s success in spite of their abuse. Now we won’t even have that redeeming feature.

  478. OT: I went to 4 grocery stores(including a Wal Mart) today and I swear their prices went up 50% (on average) in the last 3 weeks.

    If this is the crack-up boom I need to get out in front.

    1. Think “beer”. Buy shit loads of it. You’ll make a fortune when civilization collapses.

      Or until a bunch of armed thugs invades your castle, shoots your ass and takes it all away from you. Which ever comes first.

      Just think, you’ll either be rich or dead, or if you’re luck both.

  479. Fuck. I missed the party. Damn. I John was in his finest douchebag form.

  480. I love Ron Paul, but John is right that Paul could do a lot better job of articulating his positions in a positive fashion. But, it’s just not his style. He’s not a salesman.

    I do wish that he could make more concise and coherent answers and more effectively represent the non-interventionist viewpoint. He actually pissed me off tonight because some of his answers to the few questions he got were so meandering and disjointed. He’s not doing his cause any favors by acting like the absent-minded professor!

    Here’s a suggestion that Chris Cillizza at the WaPo had for Paul tonight, who he actually felt sorry for:

    “We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: If Paul would deflect all foreign policy questions and turn every answer into something about his economic views, he could be a real contender for the nomination. He won’t do that, so he isn’t.”

    1. His response every time he got asked a leading question should have began, ‘these Obama policies that my opponents want to pursue’, and end with, ‘none of my opponents in any way challenge the foreign policy status quo, and the architect of that status quo is Barack Obama.’ Fuck even mentioning Bush, as it does nothing to advance your own agenda at this time. It’s three years deep, Obama owns it now.

      1. That would be brilliant. He’ll never do it, but it would be awesome to see in a kind of drop the mike and walk off stage while everyone just looks at each other dumbfounded way.

        1. He missed a great opportunity to turn the tables on the asshole Fox correspondent when he was asked the entirely predictable question about how cutting military spending would effect the South Carolina economy. Given socons are a strong presence in that state he could have got biblical and simply stated, ‘when we turn our swords into plowshares, in the long term, we build a more productive economy.’ The beauty of this is only a Keynesian would deny it.

          1. “I’m more concerned with how the collapse of the US economy because of out-of-control borrowing will impact the entire nation, including the South Carolina economy. When that happens, military spending here will be reduced, of course. And not one of the other candidates for President is the least bit serious about preventing this catastrophe.”

  481. Paul’s answer to the bin Ladin question was an ugly sight to behold. Even so, he didn’t hang himself nearly as much as the Republican party did damage to itself. They came across as a bunch of blood thirsty knuckle dragging Satanist. Their convention should be interesting. I predict a surge of new independents who escape from the grips of the madness that has possessed the GOP like a horde of demons. They will be the lucky ones. Those who stay, well, Jim Jones had a similar following.

  482. I love how Newcular Titties channeled Andrew Jackson, the president who said he would personally lead an army into South Carolina and hang its leaders if the state voted to nullify another Federal law or seceede.

  483. And Paul did okay. The moderation at this debate was so blatantly unfair that Paul should get sympathy from any voter with a brain.

    Not only that, but the crowd was so horrible that it should deflect attention from his only weak response, which was about bin Laden. He caught a break when he got the crowd to boo Jesus.

    1. Did he? I like your optimism. I just woke up and it is too early too drink.

    2. Too bad most voters don’t have brains.

  484. Done watching clips of the SC debate. Remind me again why we fought a war to keep them in the nation.

    1. It was for freedom. We always fight for freedom. The terrorists hate our freedom. TSA grabs your crotch for freedom. It’s all about freedom. And the children.

      1. This may go in my FB quotes section – hilarious.

    2. ahhaahaah

      good one

  485. Ignorance is bliss!

  486. Ron Paul has one last task: make certain that Santorum is not the v.p. choice. If the libertarian wing of the GOP is to ever succeed, it can’t afford Santorum being one of the top leaders for possibly the next sixteen years.

    1. ‘libertarian wing of the GOP’


  487. It has become apparent that Ron Paul really does not need the GOP umbrella at this point. They’ve morphed into something no sane person will ever want to vote for. Every single one is a RINO at this point.

    I think if he made a big announcement of going third party, and just laying the smack down that he will not pander to extreme sects within either party it would be enough to get momentum to be taken seriously. He may not win in the end, but it would seriously give him credit for not putting up with all this BS.

    1. Interesting that you say that because just today Bill Kristol told C-Span that he thinks Ron Paul should leave the Republican Party.

  488. Thats like the coolest thign I ever seen. Wow.

  489. This is like the worst chat room of all time.

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