The Right Way For Ron Paul to Respond to the Newsletter Controversy
For Paulistas, who claim that the ugly, racist, and homophopic statements contained in Ron Paul's 20-year-old newsletters are ugly, racist, and homophobic because they have been taken out of context, economics professor Steve Horwitz offers some context over at Bleeding Heart. And it is not less but more damning for two big reasons:
One, Horwitz recounts chapter and verse demonstrating that comments calling blacks criminally inclined, among other even more vicious things, were not tossed off by some low-level, immature Paul apparatchik who didn't know any better. Rather, they were part of a concerted and well thought out political strategy by Ron Paul's intellectual acolytes and handlers, namely Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell, to court working class white males by aligning with some of the nastiest strains in the hard-right, paleo thinking. Writes Horwitz:
The paleo strategy, as laid out here by Rockwell, was clearly designed to create a libertarian-conservative fusion…With everyone broadly agreeing that the market had won, how could you hold together a coalition that opposed the left? Oppose them on the culture. If you read Rockwell's manifesto through those eyes, you can see the "logic" of the strategy. And it doesn't take a PhD in Rhetoric to see how that strategy would lead to the racism and other ugliness of newsletters at the center of this week's debates.
The paleo strategy was a horrific mistake, both strategically and theoretically, though it apparently made some folks (such as Rockwell and Paul) pretty rich selling newsletters predicting the collapse of Western civilization at the hands of the blacks, gays, and multiculturalists.
Two, there is more where these newsletters came from. Even though the effort to forge this paleo-libertarian alliance was eventually abandoned, much ugly baggage had already been accumulated. Ron Paul didn't write these newsletters, but, notes Horwitz, "he was willing to, metaphorically, toast a marshmallow on the cross others were burning." What's more:
Even after the paleo strategy was abandoned, Ron was still there walking the line between "mainstream" libertarianism and the winking appeal to the hard right courted by the paleo strategy. Paul's continued contact with the fringe groups of Truthers, racists, and the paranoid right are well documented. Even in 2008, he refused to return a campaign contribution of $500 from the white supremacist group Stormfront. You can still go to their site and see their love for Ron Paul in this campaign and you can find a picture of Ron with the owner of Stormfront's website. Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate? Doesn't that say something really bad about the way Ron Paul is communicating his message? Doesn't it suggest that years of the paleo strategy of courting folks like that actually resonated with the worst of the right? Paul also maintained his connection with the Mises Institute, which has itself had numerous connections with all kinds of unsavory folks: more racists, anti-Semites, Holocaust deniers, the whole nine yards. Much of this stuff was ably documented in 2007 and 2008 by the Right Watch blog.
Given this backdrop, the options before libertarians—whose numbers have swollen in recent times in no small part due to Paul—is that they can circle the wagons around him and attack his attackers by: blaming his troubles on a giant media conspiracy; condemning libertarians troubled by the newsletters as rigid purists; changing the subject by comparing Paul's current, cleansed agenda with that of his opponents; cheering him on as he walks off TV interviews and so on.
Or it can demand accountability from Paul. This might mean that Paul would have to give a major speech—a la Obama's Jeremiah Wright address—taking head on all the questions swirling around him. Such a speech must begin with a mea culpa that goes beyond "I disavow them (the newsletters)." Paul has to take responsibility for them. He has to admit that he and his organization took a seriously misguided intellectual/political turn two decades ago. However, in his heart or hearts, he remained uncomfortable with the figures and forces that he allowed himself to become allied with. Both in their substance and spirit they were, are and will always remain counter to everything he—and libertarianism— stands for. He needs to argue how his philosophy of the dignity and rights of every individual informs his pro-liberty and anti-war agenda, which, at its core, rejects every form of soft or hard racism and other ugly collectivisms.
No doubt such a speech initially will raise more questions about Paul's character and convictions than it answers—which is why his loyalists want all of this to just go away without him having to face the inconvenience of saying anything more. There is absolutely no guarantee that the speech will save Paul's candidacy. However, there is some reason to hope that it would. Paul loyalists might not buy this, but what's surprising about the timing of the controversy is not that it occurred at all, but that it took so long in this election cycle to flare up. After all, most Paul watchers in MSM knew about the existence of these statements from the last time around. Yet it seems no one wanted to bring them up again until Paul gained so much traction that ignoring them would have been a serious dereliction of duty. Observe, for example, CNN's poor Gloria Borger's apologetic tone when Paul terminated the interview with her. "It's [the questioning] legitimate, it's legitimate" she pleaded plaintively, even deferentially thanking Paul for his time as he removed his wire somewhat huffily.
All of this is actually testimony to Paul's remarkable ability to generate goodwill both for himself and his cause. I have never met Paul. But everyone I know who has likes him. They can't believe that he is capable of harboring the kind of vile sentiments expressed in the newsletters. He seems just too mild and innocuous and decent and well meaning.
The only other politician in recent times who has matched Paul's goodwill-generating capacity is Barack Obama. When the Jeremiah Wright scandal broke, Obama had grown a layer of Teflon. No one was willing to buy that the man who was loftily declaring that "there is no white America, there is no black America, there is only the United States of America" could actually have any sympathy for the kind of divisive racial rhetoric that Wright was peddling. Apart from Obama's right-wing detractors, everyone was eager to believe him. Hence Obama could make a speech distancing himself from Wright and condemning his vitriol without looking hypocritical or losing credibility.
Paul could pull off something similar, although, admittedly, he has a rockier road ahead of him given that he is more directly culpable for the statements in the newsletters than Obama was for his preacher's remarks. But if Paul stumbles and falls in the course of explaining what the philosophy that has inspired him does not stand for—namely the kind of thing contained in his newsletter—he will have turned his downfall into an even bigger teaching moment than his meteoric rise.
At any rate, what is the alternative? To die a death from a thousand cuts as his political and intellectual opponents dig up, bit by bit, the ample ammunition that he has handed them? Worse, given that Paul has become the most prominent spokesman—even standard bearer—of the libertarian movement, if he does not clear the air, it too will become tainted with his sins at a time when, for the first time ever, it is at the cusp of mainstream respectability— thanks to him, ironically enough!
Paul and his loyalists are understandably buoyed by the recent polls that show him leading in Iowa. But particularly if he wins, the scrutiny will intensify. Crying foul at that stage simply won't do.
Paul's choice, then, is to try and proactively shape the events that will surely follow—or get into a defensive crouch as they unfold, attacking the attackers, playing the victim. If he does the former, he might at least be able to save the movement he has created if not himself. If the latter, he risks taking it down with him.
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The truth might be ugly but it can't be racist.
The author seems to think that people like Horowitz and Welch are purist libertarians.
That has to be the funniest thing I have ever read. Racism is not inherently unlibertarian. Never has been and never will be.
Libertarians are very discriminatory for all sorts of things, including sex, age and race. And we should be damn proud of it, because egalitarianism of the Reason variety is a faux progressive statist value.
No wonder Reason endorses it ...
""That has to be the funniest thing I have ever read. Racism is not inherently unlibertarian""
You seem to think things are acceptable insofar as they fit within an arbitrary "libertarian" framework?
Fuck off Nazi
You seem to think that speaking the truth makes one a Nazi. Maybe you are the one who needs to fuck off?
None of this hullabaloo surprises White Indian at all.
Agricultural city-Statism (civilization)is about one thing: taking, and taking aggressively.
"Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home." ~By Stanley Diamond, In search of the primitive: a critique of civilization, page 1 (first sentence)
The libertarian strain of agricultural city-Statism whitewashes the aggression with freedom-speak (much like communism and most other city-Statist political flavors,) but the aggressive shit underneath, that is an integral part of agricultural city-Statism (civilization) always soaks through the "liberty" whitewash.
Here's your TRUE? ag-city-statist Taker-Kulture Libertarian SHIT-STORM-FRONT message, with zero whitewash:
"In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors." ~Murray Rothbard
"Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, ... unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares?" ~Murray Rothbard
? Liberty is the Whitewash.
? Maintaining big-government Land enTITLEment artificial borders [privation property] to prevent the free movement of Non-State people is the REAL [fibertarian] SHIT.
"Maintaining big-government Land enTITLEment artificial borders [privation property] to prevent the free movement of Non-State people is the REAL [fibertarian] SHIT."
please explain. i thought libertarianism was all about personal protection of private property. individual before govt. if anything, libertarianism seems to be "whitewashing" the reality of social structure, but this is purposeful, in that it seeks to dissociate them from legislative govt.
I saw thread early, ignored thread all day: I AM SCORE.
This is exactly right.
Libertarianism has nothing to do with your personal morality beyond how you interact with other other people. If your interactions abide by the "non-agression principle," you're a libertarian no matter how much you hate, or love other people.
There seems to be one set of libertarians -- sometimes residing at Reason -- who believe you have to be libertine to be libertarian. There is another group that somehow thinks you have to be some kind of puritan to be a libertarian. Neither are true. This is the underlying, uniting attribute of libertarianism that allows for racists as well as do-gooders to unite under "one flag." We can hold whatever personal principles we choose, but we agree not to force our beliefs on others. For that matter, we agree not to use force on other people period.
As I can't like this comment, a message like will have to do 🙂
"Noted," thanks. 🙂
Great point. In fact excellent. This is the point that I believe Paul tries to make. And that is, if it is acceptable to protest a soldier's funeral and burn the American Flag then why forbid someone from using the "N" word on a protest poster? I'm not a racist. But even racists have free speech. Right? And if they are denied their right to free speech because of an "anti-hate-speech" rule. Then who exactly is in charge to make the decision as to what falls under "free speech" or what is cast into the "hate speech" box and not allowed for public consumption?
All responses, both sincere and rude are welcome.
"They are denied their right to free speech because of an 'anti-hate speech' rule." Really? What statute or law is cracking down on the Ron Paul letters? It's just the marketplace of ideas putting racism, sexism, and homophobia in the rightful place of the dustbin. If Ron Paul really wants his campaign to continue he should respond to the marketplace in the manner suggested by this article.
On the other hand, maybe Ron Paul doesn't really want to win. Based on 2008 it may be safe to infer he is more concerned with enriching his "non-profit" after his campaign is over with the amassed fortune of donations from his unfortunate "true believers." (I know, I gave him a decent donation in 2008 and didn't see it spent on anything except calls for more money.)
Perhaps you weren't paying attention, but that money was spent on the campaign - mostly ads in early primary states. Plus, far more money was spent by people outside the campaign.
But, really, the suggestion in this article is pretty much EXACTLY WHAT HE HAS DONE. Sure, it was an answer (or fifteen) to questioning about the newsletters instead of a speech, but so what - it was the same answer: "his philosophy of the dignity and rights of every individual informs his pro-liberty and anti-war agenda, which, at its core, rejects every form of soft or hard racism and other ugly collectivisms", specifically focusing on the racist War on Drugs, racism in the justice system, soft racism of affirmative action, etc. and how his libertarian philosophy rejects all these forms of racism and collectivism. Apparently, that wasn't good enough for you self-righteous pricks.
I don't know about your second paragraph but the first one is dead on. These ideas are going away, but not because Washington is making it happen.
Hate Speech is not illegal but there is defintely an unspoken rule against any racist rhetoric aimed towards non-whites. Just ask Don Imus. And I don't have a problem with that except the part where it only applies to non-whites.
Again, as I've stated in other posts, get A.G. Eric Holder to take responsibility for the thousands of assault rifles given away to Drug Cartels which resulted in the death of a Federal Agent, first. Then you can justify harking for Paul to take responsibility for a 20 yr old news letter which has hurt Paul more than anyone else.
Big difference.
Most sensible thing I've read so far; the same goes for Paul's stance on illegal drugs. I think he's not saying "Legalize drugs", he's just saying get the federal government to stop meddling with the states' rights to decide for themselves.
Exactly
How about his stance on immigration? I see this as just more pandering to the right wingers.
But you are required to ignore any social problems that come with widespread racism. That is truth too, and you have to brush it under the rug to remain consistent, not to say pure. People can experience force from things other than individual people.
Also, it's pathetic the excuses being made for the obvious racism Paul harbored. It shouldn't be a surprise, he's a goldbug conspiracy nut, back in the day this ugly racist bullshit was part of the package.
Sounds like some people are using a trick straight out of Speaker Pelosi's playbook. Simular to when she tried to blame Congresswoman Gifford's shooting on "vile rhetoric from Sarah Palin and Tea Party people".Instead of accepting the possibility that there are insane freaks in this world.
If you are going to connect Paul's unwritten by him words in a two decades old newspaper to all of the evil in this world, well, goodbye Rap Music, Goodbye Scary Movies, Goodbye Vampire Novels. We can't afford anyone being influenced by anything that is not approved by people such as "Tony".
Who needs a Judge and a Jury? Why waste time? Tony will decide what is acceptable.He alone will choose who is guilty and who is not. Which will probably be everyone that disagrees with his all knowing point of view.
The only thing that I find "pathetic" are these desperate attempts by a handfull of would be Socialists. Who dream of someday stamping out an entire nation's free speech, open discussions and diversity. With the hopes of replacing it with a heavily regulated Gastapo-Hilter-type society. Devoid of all abstract thought and creative ideas. Everyone will even dress the same in Tony's world. And if anyone should disagree with them, (and you know who they are) "the enlightened ones". If you should dare to walk differently, talk differently. Look out. The misfits are to be rounded up and sent to the camps.
So let's send Paul and his followers to the re-education camps. So that they may learn the art of "going with the flow". And stop being a pebble in the "enlighted ones" shoes.
If Tony wishes to embark on a racist witch hunt.Perhaps he should use the man in the mirror as target practice.
The only thing more pathetic and weak than "victim speak" is "victim speak" by someone who has no chance of actually being a victim:
"With the hopes of replacing it with a heavily regulated Gastapo-Hilter-type society. Devoid of all abstract thought and creative ideas. Everyone will even dress the same in Tony's world. And if anyone should disagree with them, (and you know who they are) "the enlightened ones". If you should dare to walk differently, talk differently. Look out. The misfits are to be rounded up and sent to the camps."
Really?
Nobody is suggesting Paul be arrested for being a racist. Free speech doesn't mean you get to publish stupid bullshit and not be called out on it.
Alright Tony, I accept your argument. But with one stern condition:
I will encourage all of my fellow Paul supporters to demand an apology from Paul on the letters if (IF) you and your side demands the same high standards from A.G. Eric Holder and Dept of Energy Head Steve Chu.
2000 brand new assault rifles wrapped in Red, White and Blue ribbons were handed over to the Mexican Drug Cartels.( the definition of "Terrorist" according to The Patriot Act would place Drug Cartels into that category, why are we not going to war with Mexico?) Supposedly,this gun exchange which all experts agree could not have been approved without a high level of authority has taken place WITHOUT the knowledge of Attorney General Holder.
And we, the common street vermin are to believe this? Really? Ok, either he is incompetent or knew about it and lied before a Congressional Hearing. Either way, Holder owes the public an explaination and should resign if he refuses to accept responsibility.
Steve Chu (Dept of Energy) is taking the same route as holder about not being aware or responsible for billions wasted on Solyndra. Thats Billions with a "B". All checks from the Department of Energy has Chu's signature on them. His name, like Paul's is on the paper work. Well?
No apparent harm has come out of these letters that were not written by Paul. With the lone exception of the possibility of a lunatic Black Panther member snuffing Paul out. And since the Panther's voter intimidation charges were dropped by holder, they are even more bolder now to take more actions against 'Whitey".
The snafu on Holder's watch resulted in the death of an American Federal Agent. BIG difference.
Summary: Either we hold ALL of our public officials to this new high standard that you and your side demands or we do not. You have no right to pick and choose. Nor can you claim that Paul's snafu is more important and/or more damaging. Theres a huge gap between a 20 year old unapproved by Paul news article on a mostly ignored paper. Verses lives being lost and billons of tax payer monies being wasted.
Flip and coin decide who you are, what it is that you stand for and most importantly, be consistant. Other wise, your argument is mute. And your attack on Paul is based less on actual concern for the black community and more for Personal and Political reasons.
Right, but the gun walking operation only became news because a white American agent was killed. More noteworthy in the current context is that the operation was conceived of with the clear knowledge that many, many innocent Mexicans would be killed. Clearly nobody expected an American agent to be killed. Aiding mass murder of innocent Mexicans is considered OK; it's only news because one US agent was killed. Now that's racism. That's the War on Drugs.
Jesus, then you'd have to ask for apologies for every time a government official fucked up. We wouldn't have time to do anything else. Why does one have to precede the other? Can't both actions be outrageous?
But you are required to ignore any social problems that come with widespread racism.
Yes Tony, libertarians are not Social Engineers. If you have a claim of racism against a specific individual or group, you are free to pursue that claim and seek retribution.
Guess who is 5% of the population and commits 50% of murders... wait for it...
it ain't "racists".
Also commenting because I can't 'like' it.
Ok, fine. Bigots can be libertarians too. The fact still remains that bigotry and racism is wrong and it's not acceptable to court assholes to win political points. Reason writers aren't advocating anti-racism because they think it's a plank in the libertarian platform, but because it's an objectively superior attitude to racism, just like libertarianism is superior to authoritarianism. If you disagree, fuck you.
Nope, " bigotry and racism" are in your genes my good man. Behavior like not getting along with those different than you helped mankind evolve. I thought liberal do good-ers all loved science?
This is an incredibly moronic comment. As a male it's "in my genes" to want to just go around and fuck everything that moves. Yet I maintain a monogamous relationship with a single person. I'm clearly going against what nature programmed me to do, yet most would agree that this is the morally virtuous path.
Point being that there is a massive disconnect between that which favors survival or reproduction and that which is generally regarded as ethically tenable. Even if I believed that racism is "in your genes" (I'd love to see the studies proving this), racism as an acceptable belief doesn't follow.
Neither are is true. 🙂
Thersite's body is as good as Ajax'/When neither are alive--Shakespeare, Cymbeline, 1610
Neither are is true. 🙂
You sure that looking at people as part of larger groups and identifying them as such isn't unlibertarian?
If you see an entire group of people as somehow lesser based on "insert physical characteristic here", and you identify individuals with that group, you don't hold the primacy of the individual as paramount. And it's tough to be a libertarian if you don't view the primacy of the individual as paramount to their broader demographic.
In a libertarian society, a group of people could voluntarily create a communist subculture as long as they entered the group voluntarily.
I would, as a group, call those people "idiots." i don't think that's un-libertarian.
There's nothing voluntary about libertarianism anyway.
"Liberty" is just whitewash.
Libertarians are aggressive agricultural city-Statists.
Sounds like somebody needs a good footwashing.
Sure, but you're judging them based on their ideas, their character, their actions. How is that similar to racism?
The original comment was about "the individual is paramount to their broader demographic", not specifically about race, but it still holds for race.
As a libertarian, you're free to hold stupid values as long as you don't initiate force against other people. That's why we allow people to make stupid economic decisions as well as stupid personal decisions. You're free to make those decisions, but you're personally responsible for the outcome of that decision (like if blacks won't let you shop at their stores because they know you're a racist pig).
"Pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach." ~Thomas Jefferson
Save the fibertarian bullshit about how the occupation is less violent than the invasion. It's all aggression.
Or like if whites won't let you shop at their stores because you are black and they know all blacks are thieves?
People always try to use "fear of the boundary conditions" to rob other people of their liberty. Yes, in a free society it is possible that blacks wouldn't let whites shop in their stores, or vice versa. The market will adjust for this, and those without prejudice will benefit from others' stupid behavior.
Totally true; No businessman in his right mind would hire a lazy white guy over a black worker who can bring him more profit.His competitors could easily demolish or greatly diminish his chance of success by simply hiring based on profit motive. Discrimination laws, like minimum wage and environmental laws succeed only in transferring decision-making power from the individual to a centralized government authority and allows them to demand a percentage of that individual's productivity and resources to fund the creation, implementation and enforcement of that new law. That is NOT America.
It seems to me that an individual is free to do those things in a libertarian society, but that does not make said individual a libertarian.
Those are two separate issues. A communist living in a libertarian society is still a communist.
Racism might be tolerated in a libertarian society, but that does not make it a libertarian value, because viewing people in terms of their larger group demographic denies the individual primacy.
"In a libertarian society, a group of people could voluntarily create a communist subculture as long as they entered the group voluntarily.
"I would, as a group, call those people "idiots." i don't think that's un-libertarian."
Or you cold call them "monks" or "nuns."
Look, we know the paultards are racist. Rockwell tried to creat a strategy to appeal to the William f Buckley cosmotarian racist...yes the strategy failed but it proves that paultards are racist. Now if they would address this by admitting they are the most racist crazies then perhaps we could move forward, otherwise us cosmotarians will have to support a reasonable candidate like Romney. He is actually very libertarian.
Maybe the author is Rand Paul and Ron is trying to protect him?
Maybe the author is you, and Paul is trying to protect you? I have about as much evidence either way. Given that Paul claims not to have read them - and I believe that - the MOST you can get is a list of who worked on the newsletters. So you would slander a group of folks with racist claims based on the knowledge that at least one of them is secretly a racist? That sounds like the opposite of individualism to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PNKT20jSf4
Do you know what candidate is a joke? Mittens Romney. I don't know about you, but as a tax-paying American, I don't think we need a war with Iran to pay for, either in wealth or lives. And we definitely don't need a Republican who'll pander to the interests of the statist lefties. I'm sticking with the sure-NON RACIST, pro-liberty bet, Ron Paul.
(The interesting thing about Libertarianism is that racism is protected under freedom of speech. Violence against any individual, for any reason, is still a crime.)
+1000%
"[Romney] is actually very libertarian."
I haven't had a laugh like that for months. Hoo, boy. Tell us another joke. Although, I would like to know why you are calling me racist for ignoring something in Paul's history that was written by someone else, and ignores pretty much everything Paul has actually done or said himself. Oh, and so would my black friends who are doing the same thing. Are they also racist?
I am pretty sure he is being sarcastic.
Weak attacks against his candidacy. My bet? Won't work this time around.
Ron Paul message is resonating with a lot of Americans...(Of all races - not that this really matters at this point).
Find us one video where he has spoken racist words, and I'll buy the idea that Ron Paul is a racist a bit more.
But hey, we've got A LOT more important issues at hand such as a $15 trillion debt, a $1.2 trillion yearly deficit, a damaged currency, high unemployment, interesting civil liberty laws going through the Congress and the Senate that aren't getting a fraction of the attention they should be getting.
Cheers
Agreed.
Blacks for Ron Paul 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/.....pg1?mid=55
Gingrich-Linked Propagandist Recycles Debunked "Racist" Ron Paul Smear
http://www.infowars.com/gingri.....aul-smear/
NAACP Nelson Linder speaks on Ron Paul and racism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhv3paNz6U
Ron Paul is a Racist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
NAACP Austin branch pres talks about Ron Paul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvAuSXq5etA
A black man's view on Ron Paul being racist Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
A black man's view on Ron Paul racism claims part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHWnZv08nhw
Ha ha! That first guy is pastor Manning!
Love that guy. Hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU
Yes it is but unfortunately it has been bludgeoned into our heads that anything with even the slightest hint of racism is the purest of evil and nearly equal to murder or touching children. He has to clear this up. Walking off and wishing it away will not work. And if not for himself for the message because not to would mean that all future libertarian candidates will start with a black cloud hanging over them. We are growing in numbers but we are not there yet. And from what I've gleaned from my voyages on the digital seas, for many on the fence for Paul, this is the one singular issue that is holding them back.
I don't know anyone saying the one percent of the newsletters that were bad were anything but very bad, we are saying they weren't Ron Paul. What sort of libertarian believes in associational guilt of and by itself?
I hear a screaming agenda in this article.
Why does Reason keep beating this dead horse? Ron Paul has repeatedly denied the newsletters in every public forum possible. I'm not sure what more you expect him to do?
And when Reason keeps on insisting that Lew Rockwell wrote the letters, without a shred of proof, they lose even more credibility. It's no wonder Ron Paul is firmly in the Mises.org camp, while at the same time, Reason is floundering about trying to stay relevant in the Libertarian community. You guys are truly hopeless.
Because this is holiday season, which means that the Beltway Cocktail Party circuit is going strong, so invites have to be courted.
The Beltway empties out around December asthenosphere transients in DC visit family or vacation spots. If you stalk reason editors om twittery will find that they are all n Paris or Prague now. Shika lives near Detroit, not DC.
Maybe Shika is afraid someone will think she is a white supremacist if she doesn't make it clear. The BleedingheartLibertarian piece she is synopsizing was one of the better pieces written on the affair.
Steve Horwitz "excommunicated" Ron Paul from "acceptable libertarian circles" at least 4 years ago.
In that article he actually wrote this:
As many of us have argued from the start on this blog, the heritage of libertarianism is properly a progressive one.
Steve Horowitze at best speaks for a smaller number of ansocs and college professors who have no problem chasing tenure while claming to be market anarchists.
There is a quote from Horwitz on this very blog's comments in which he states he only supports "liberty" for utilitarian reasons and if it "doesn't work out" he'd be in favor something anti-liberty.
I'm not sure what more you expect him to do?
I for one expect him to name some names and tell us who did. Paultards like you REFUSE TO LISTEN to what people like me are asking for and then moan and complain about how RP's done everything he could boo hoo. Your man doesn't look good on a cross get him off there.
Seems the MSM is the one that nailed him to the cross in the first place..
The problem is that naming names will basically look like he is placing blame on someone else or throwing someone under the bus. That is not who Dr. Paul is. He took responsibility for failing to catch the racist comments, admitted that he should have done a better job monitoring, and disavowed the information. That is what an honorable leader would do. Only a coward would point fibers and throw others under the bus.
The thing that seriously irks me about this whole issue is that those who DID write the offending material are unwilling to come forward themselves and claim responsibility. By failing to do so, I believe they are showing personal cowardice by letting Dr. Paul "swing in the wind".
They should come forward and release their own names.
^This!
Also, people need to relax about this a bit. I don't think it will hurt Paul's chances in the long run. Look how little the civil rights legislation snafu hurt Rand. I think the right strategy is to keep saying "I disavow these newsletters", "I am anti-racist and no one else but me talks about racism in the judicial system and drug laws", etc. He should just keep doing what he's doing. Seems to be working quite well.
The problem with this is that the author of the offending passages was likely Murray Rothbard, who died in 1995.
You don't know this. You're basing this opinion on unsubstantiated innuendos that wouldn't pass the smell test on a rocket launch. You're looking for anything but the O-ring. But, if you have to believe in something, I guess you have to have some faith.
I have seen this accusation a lot from the Reason crowd, but they never seem to have any actual proof.
It could be that they're no longer alive, or aren't aware of the controversy, or don't remember writing those articles themselves, or aren't reachable for some other reason.
My understanding is that we're talking about a handful of questionable sentences, from a handful of articles, out of thousands of pages of content. I would be hard-pressed to remember individual passages from anything I wrote for a client 20 years ago.
Most likely, the ghostwriter(s) signed non-disclosure agreements that prevent them from claiming authorship.
I've been ghostwriting marketing copy for 20+ years and NDAs are standard practice. (And yes, I've written things like newsletters, sales letters, speeches, etc. for some very high-ranking executives. And yes, many of them never read or personally approved the copy that went out in their names.)
It doesn't surprise me at all that Ron Paul can't identify the ghostwriter(s). Apparently, he didn't hire them.
If the contract went in both directions (meaning, the publishing company was also bound to confidentiality) that would explain why Ron Paul couldn't "out" the ghostwriters, even if he knew who they were.
And this all happened 20 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the newsletter company no longer has records of who wrote what articles, out of the (apparently) thousands of pages of content that were created.
Anyone who ghostwrites content could explain this, but I have yet to see a single news outlet interview a ghostwriter about the situation.
I find Ron Paul's explanations to be completely credible.
Stalin had a ghost-writer to pen orders for the Holodomor.
I find Stalin's excuses to be completely credible.
LOL
...thee, not for me.
I don't remember Stalin making any excuses.
He still has legions making excuses for him.
Still Making Excuses for The Dear Leader.
It's a proven strategy that has worked wonders for Obama.
Except for when the author is dead.
Good lord. There are, what, four 'politically incorrect' comments over, what, fifteen years of newsletters?
Who gives a fuck who wrote them? This is all making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Ron Paul doesn't really know who wrote them. Lew Rockwell and Murray Rothbard were in charge at the time, but we don't know that either of them wrote them as there were 5 or 6 writers and people were coming and going at that time.
Is it just me, or does it seem more and more with each passing day that certain libertarians are FAR more concerned with "outing" Rockwell than helping the Paul campaign?
In fact, I submit that the newsletter story is little more than a proxy battle for settling old scores within the libertarian movement, several of them quite silly and pedantic.
The fortunes of Paul's presidential bid are of ENTIRELY secondary concern to certain people who are, evidently, still fighting a personal battle from some Libertarian Party convention that happened back in the 1980's. That alone speaks far more about the priorities of those people than the newsletters say about Paul.
It's not just you.
I expect media liberals to endlessly harp on this kind of nonsense, but coming from self-avowed libertarians, it's bizarre.
I imagine Paul must be thinking to himself "with friends like these, who needs enemies."
It is only bizarre if you are the type of person who is surprised when fox news and rachell meadow act like Ron Paul doesn't exist.
Reason wants to be the leader in acceptable libertarian opinion. They must be insanely jealous that Lew Rockwell has a viable presidential candidate polling in first place and they don't.
Reason does not want Ron Paul to win. Reason, Cato, Nick "I'm so hip" Gillespie, etc. all want to preserve their roles as Mayors of the libertarian ghetto. In order to do that they have to collaborate with the statists and the corporatist controlled media which keeps us behind the ghetto walls instead of supporting the one candidate who might help us break through.
Ron Paul has done more for liberty than anyone at Reason or Cato ever has ? and they know it.
What the hell do you want Reason to do, Jay? Officially not notice that yet another racist screed, this time signed, has surfaced?
I completely agree that Ron Paul has done a great deal for liberty. But that doesn't create an obligation to refuse to look around and observe that some pretty evil-looking chickens are coming back to roost.
You're a shallow cynic. No point talking to you. I hate myself now for having wasted my time in writing this.
I don't mind that these things have been brought up. I bring them up to people all the time if I tell them about Ron Paul so they aren't someday blindsided by it.
It's that they aren't presented in a way that is looking for the truth, but rather in a way to accuse that is wrong.
Neither do they seem to point out that the contents of those newsletters go against basically everything he has ever said publicly and his voting record.
Bringing out the truth is fine, but the biggest lies are half the truth.
Something. "Dear Cato Institute and David Boaz, THANKS FOR NOTHING!"
http://web.archive.org/web/200.....r-nothing/
"....IVE LAID BARE THE COMING RACE WAR IN OUR BIG CITIES, THE FEDERAL-HOMOSEXUAL COVER-UP ON AIDS (MY TRAINING AS A PHYSICIAN HELPS ME SEE THROUGH THIS ONE)...
SEND YOUR CHECK TODAY. 1-800-RON-PAUL
http://graphics.thomsonreuters.....ation2.pdf
"Liberty" is just whitewashing the aggression necessary to maintain privation property "rights," which are actually big-government Land enTITLEments to restrict the free movement of Non-State sovereign individuals to engage in The Original Affluent Society. (Sahlins, 1974)
Thank GAIA for the city-STATE that allows me to guzzle Mountain Dew like I'm going after the last drops of mother's milk.
but there was a federal homosexual cover-up. isn't that the plot of "...and the band played on"?
A+
The latest shoe to drop is a screed that went out directly over Ron Paul's signature. He can deny the newsletters repeatedly, but the connection is strong, and getting stronger.
Yes, this is politics. Yes, the media should go after substantive policy decisions -- war, crony capitalism, SOPA, indefinite detention -- but this is not going to go away by itself.
Another shallow, self-hating cynic. It's funny because the irony is blatant. Somehow, you expect us to believe that Ron Paul is the conspiracy theorist? lol!
So is it your contention that the signed subscription appeal from the Ron Paul investment newsletter is fraudulent?
The technology to reproduce someone's signature in the publishing industry has been around for decades. I believe that Dr. Paul was negligent in not paying attention to what was being produced in his name, but many a publisher and CEO has activities take place under their authority that they are not personally aware of.
As you said -- negligent.
It's good to see that you've brought down your charges to mere negligence. You were originally insinuating a lot worse (without proof). Of course Ron's never denied, or hid himself from the newsletters. He directly, and cogently responds that he did not write the negative content, and that he disavows it. Normally this would be sufficient, unless those who baselessly accuse have a more personal agenda. How many times must a man be asked if he beats his wife before we can take him at his word? And let's be careful about what we're accusing him of. We now understand (and some of us have long been aware) that we're dealing with negligence. Not, racism, not denials of negligence, and not certainly not wife-beating.
I don't think it is appropriate to use "mere" as an adjective for "negligence" when we are talking about a man making a serious run for the Presidency.
This is true. A good, responsible President would be someone who would never allow 2000 American made assault rifles to be handed over to Drug thugs with the Fed's blessings. Nor allow multi-billion dollar funding of unsupervised money pits such as Solyndra. A responsible President such as Obama always accepts responsibility for all of the things (good or bad)that happen under his watch. Obama did take the blame for these things right? Or did he? Oh wait, both he and Holder have denied any knowledge of this stuff. Hmmm, no knowledge eh? Ok. Well, if we can forgive Obama/Holder for any and all activities that they were directly or indirectly connected to, then why can't we forgive Paul? Or is there a double standard at play? Of course there is a double standard. Obama is black and Paul is white. Now who's being racist?
Exactly... If he didn't know a thing about what was written under his name, it shows complete executive incompetence. How can he run a country if he can't run a newsletter?
And so? Show me someone who has never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who hasn't achieved a goddamn thing.
What about Jesus?
Never explicitly condemned homophobia or slavery, and said nothing about weapons of mass destruction.
One word: Autopen
"Why does Reason keep beating this dead horse? Ron Paul has repeatedly denied the newsletters in every public forum possible. I'm not sure what more you expect him to do?"
Name names. Who wrote the articles? He wants to be commander in chief. He ought to be able to get his little 6-8 man ship from the newsletter in order.
Identify the author, hold him or her up to public judgment, disassociate from him or her. Take responsibility. Acknowledge that it was a failure of management.
He'll acknowledge it was a failure of management as soon as Obama admits that giving thousands of automatic weapons to Mexican drug lords was a failure of management.
Why does Reason keep beating this dead horse?
Because they're all butthurt that the Rothbard side of the Libertarian movement (ie, the anarcho-capitalists) is far more popular than the Koch side (ie, the compromising wimps), thanks to Ron Paul.
-jcr
Ron Paul is an-cap now? When did this happen?
Its no surprise that Ron Paul is firmly in the Mises.org camp when the Von Mises Institute used to follow the same racist newsletter publishing path. Or did you think Ron Paul was alone in this?
To see Ron Paul's support, view this short video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VLmzvoaGWU
Ron Paul is not racist!
...black.
Racists always whitewash their racism.
Yes - especially when they yank some guy out of his truck and beat him with bricks because they're upset about a trial verdict. They like to "whitewash" the act by saying "he was a white guy who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time."
LOL! Good come back.
So . . . to get this clear . . . your defense of the Ron Paul Newsletters is that they're factually correct? Thanks for all your help in the battle of ideas.
You think that beating didn't actually happen?
And some of my best friends are racists.
Air Jordan riots.
"They can't believe that he is capable of harboring the kind of vile sentiments expressed in the newsletters."
Except for the part where he's repeatedly made the case that he, you know, a doesn't harbor those "vile sentiments".
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
Yeah, absolutely. He better change his political views real quick and compromise the political views he's espoused over the last three decades. Anything to keep those icky right-wingers from agreeing with him. Brilliant fucking idea.
Poor Shikha. Sounds like you've got an axe to grind.
Than-Q!
You hit the nail right on the head.
If you want to write an article about credibility, the first step would be having an editor to check for grammar and spelling mistakes.
So, a carefully punctuated, capitalized, properly composed statement that says "The sky is green." is more credible because the author hit Spell Check?" (or, CPT Msgr CbG, does the "?" go outside the quote marks? bad grammar, bad idea??) Maybe this will help:
"Prezident fales, to uphhhold campign promiss."
Yup, you're right. I wrote poorly so, ipso facto, I think poorly.
Schmuck!
I actually fully agree. I am a RP supporter, and will be voting for him no matter what, but for the sake of increasing his following, I believe he needs to tackle this crap head on. I believe he can do it - he's pulled a lot of impossible things off in the past year.
Not unreasonable
I deeply hope he and his campaign take this advice to heart. I trust Paul, and I trust people enough to be able to handle the truth about his past. And Shikha, the courage you've shown in writing this is admirable, as the first few comments here have shown that not all of Paul's supporters appreciate this viewpoint. Here's hoping we can all get together at the end of the day and advance the cause of liberty.
Fuck off statist.
It's not all about you and your stupid little asshole club, but have fun not getting your guy into the WH, yet again.
Libertarians are all agricultural city-Statists.
So fuck yourself, city-Statist.
Or at least give me my Twinkies back!
Well said Johnathan.
I believe he needs to tackle this crap head on.
He already has, repeatedly, including twice in that last CNN interview. The media keep flogging it because it's the only thing they've got to try to smear him with.
-jcr
blah blah blah
RON PAUL 2012!
As a supporter of Ron Paul, I couldn't agree more with the sentiment expressed in this article. As for political strategy i see a lot of pro's in such a policy speech. He could for example also incorporate the paranoia over muslims wanting to build a Caliphate in the US among certain candidates. Of course that could also hurt him, considering the Tea Party's fear of the black muslim president.
C
Not the best trolling but not the worst either.
He has, as you suggest, taking responsibility and apologized for the negligence that was involved with this issue. However, the MSM is largely ignoring these statements and continuing to question through them, which is why he and his supporters are in a huff about it. I agree with you, still, that he should take a head on approach to these things, and when he comes into a greater spotlight in the upcoming weeks, he should definitely give a speech taking head on all the criticisms that have been leveled at him, taking the opportunity to clearly explain where he stands.
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
Goldman sachs, judging from their campaign contributions, thinks that both Romney and Obama are good candidates. what exactly does that say?
Darn tootin'! Only a total twit would vote for a bought-and-paid for business-as-usual politician like Romney.
Ron Paul is the only trustworthy candidate in the running.
Good analogy, but the difference being Romney and Obama both took those contributions and scratched Goldman Sachs' back in return. I'm not sure how some white supremacist group expect to be repaid by a Paul campaign.
As others pointed out, giving back the money to racist organizations further enables them to promote their agendas. Paul having that money prevents that money being spent on their programs.
...what exactly does that say?
It says they don't see much difference between the two and that they are hedging their bets.
As unpopular a stance as it might be, racist people probably have reasons other than racial motivations for voting for a candidate. Maybe they're racists, but hate the wars overseas. Maybe they're racist and think the Fed is a joke, and not even a funny one. Maybe they have tons of different reasons for voting for/supporting Dr. Paul, but no one seems to think about that.
Agree with the writer. The newsletters really don't matter...
Why? Because Ron Paul endorses a policy of individual freedom and liberty. He may or may not like you or agree with what you do, but he would not impose his views on you through government mandates and intervention. That is what has made America great. Tolerance even in disagreement. It is the essence of the U.S. Constitution.
Meanwhile, the neo-con crowd that currently infests our political system is busy destroying the Constitution by championing bills that would allow the government to imprison any U.S. citizen without charge or trial, indefinitely, just by labeling them 'terrorist'.
And all 'establishment' certified candidates are pro-war on steroids. Obama is little different than Bush in his war-happy foreign policy. The establishment is totally out of touch with the majority of the American people. Their policies are bankrupting us while making us less safe.
The system is broken and the 'establishment' candidates will not fix it.
It's time to reject the 'establishment' candidates that have brought this country to the brink of destruction. It's time for real change. Ron Paul 2012.
This.
Even if Ron Paul were secretly racist, his policies are the least racist of all the candidates. If he could just end the drug war, that would do more for the rights of minorities than anything else - but he goes well beyond that.
Many legal issues, from adverse possession of property to having to report that one used to go by another name, have a statute of limitations, usually between 7 and 10 years. Events that cause radically lower credit ratings, like being foreclosed on, also only show up for 7 years.
I agree with Shikha on what Paul has to do. He'll be nagged throughout the campaign if he does not.
In addition to Obama's situation with Wright, Clinton had a problem brewing during his campaign with the women he messed around with. He went on TV with Hillary by his side and explained it and took questions.
It will be impossible to support Paul if he does not satisfactorily put this issue to rest.
All this is to distract voters from peering into the establishment's choice and his disconnect with Main Street. Romney's top contributors are Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse, and Morgan Stanley (same as Obama). He'll never apologize for TARP and banker bailouts, argues openly that corporations are people too, and won't reveal his tax statements. If you're going to sling political mud around, at least focus on the target.
Whatever!
Ron Paul 2012
Ron Paul is far more trustworthy than the scandal-mongers giving this non-story legs.
Hey Shikha, you have articles in a publication that once had this editorial headline, 'Why the South Must Prevail,' and whom also supported Apartheid up to 1991, correct?
Shkha probably has a white hood and a well-thumbed copy of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion too.
guilt by associations is fun.
Shikha is racist she prefers the pro-drug war candidates and wrote articles in the national review which was founded by racists.
And she hates people from India, I hear.
I hope that voters are intelligent enough to detect the fallacies in those hit pieces against Ron Paul.
Let's take this little pearl of wisdom:
"Paul's continued contact with the fringe groups of Truthers, racists, and the paranoid right are well documented." And how does the author "prove" this? By stating that Ron Paul did not return a $500 donation to a racist and that he let his picture be taken with a racist!
Since when are politicians responsible for the character of donors, especially with a donation as small as 500$? Should he return it so that the racist can use it for nefarious purposes?
And since when is a politician required to make a background check on all the people that want their picture to be taken with him when he mingles with the voters during a campaign?
RP gave the keynote address at the 2007 50th anniversary for the John Birch Society and RP routinely appears on the Alex Jones radio show.
For most people John Birch Society = racist and paranoid right.
Alex Jones is a truther and again for most people he is paranoid right.
For most people John Birch Society = racist and paranoid right.
Paranoid right yes - but racist? Only if thinking the civil rights movement was infiltrated by marxists and other assorted leftists is considered a racist position.
God Bless the JBS!
Get US Out of the United Nations!
For most people John Birch Society = racist and paranoid right.
You, sir, are an idiot.
This attack is a very well-funded, sophisticated smear against Mr. Paul.
We need to go back approximately 55 years in time, to 1957. In August of 1957, a very racist editorial company asked this question to the public of whether "the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally."
That editorial, National Review, answered its own question by then saying: "The sobering answer is Yes ? the White community is entitled because . . . it is the advanced race." At the time of that release, a man (who the media will not mention) named William Buckley was the editor-in-chief of National Review. From that date on, the National Review has been engaged in outrageous forms of racism.
In March of 1960, the National Review editorial wrote: "in the Deep South the Negroes are retarded and any attempt to argue this point is mere 'demagoguery'." It also said on October 28th of 1983: "The GNP, after all, is not produced by people marching in the streets," (against MLK movement). It also said: ""Perhaps MLK Day should be celebrated only by the gainfully employed, and all those on welfare should be required to collect their checks as usual."
On July 23rd of 1976, William Buckley himself criticized the UN. Why? Because the UN was criticizing how the Apartheid laws were contributing to the murders & slaughter of Blacks.
One of its more offensive secrets - In November of 1979, the National Review praised the "Apartheid" laws in South Africa, saying the law "has earned the benefit of a doubt from responsible critics."
February the 8th, 1985 - it praised the "liberalization of the Apartheid laws under Prime Minister Botha," (Promoting Apartheid).
May 23rd, 1986 - it criticized anyone calling an end to "Apartheid" laws.
February 13th, 1987 - the editorial called Martin Luther King, Jr. A "communist sex maniac" & also referred to MLK as "a compulsive philanderer, and compulsive may be too weak a word." That same day, it also disliked Martin Luther King Day, saying: "let's hang in there," and contribute to the disposal of the historical Dr. King down the memory hole." (!!!)
Newt Gingrich also voted AGAINST the reservation of a Martin Luther King Day. Who voted FOR it? Ron Paul - the one being accused of racism.
National Review also used unknown & unverifiable statistics that "prove" the "cultural superiority of White over Negro". It went further to say that blacks should not vote, as it would hurt "the claims of civilization." It praised the British Embassy in Kenya in the 50s because of its discrimination against blacks, as it showed the "qualitative differences between its culture and the Negroes."
On December 2nd, 1991 - he praised David Duke when he said that "White people also have rights." - claiming that they have been taken away (by whom, we will never know).
HOW ALL OF THIS RELATED DIRECTLY TO THE RON PAUL NEWSLETTERS
All of the racism from National Review was done while a man named William Buckley was editor-in-chief. Some of this material was written by him personally. William Buckley passed away in 2008.
A certain man said a eulogy for Buckley, quoted saying "liberals could not find a more gracious intellectual opponent than William F. Buckley. Relishing Buckley's intellect, style and the voluminous service he performed on behalf of the English language. No American writer of the last half century had a more significant impact on our politics than he has."
This man, James Kirchick, PRAISED THE RACISM by William Buckley. THIS IS THE GUY WHO accused Ron Paul of being racist & submitted the newsletters to Reuters just days ago to start smearing him, and is assisted by an anti-Paul group that is associated directly by "Kochtopus" - which is funded directly by Charles Koch.
Mr. Kirchick is directly connected to Newt Gingrich through FDD (Foundation for the Defense of Democracies).
Wow this is quite jarring. Where did you get this information? I would be interested in checking sources.
http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo223.html
Has reason explained their preference for racism? They wrote glowingly of Buckley after he finally died a couple years ago...why would they hate blacks so much?
Here is Gov. Tract on House Vote # 624 in Dec. 1979 which shows that Ron Paul Voted FOR MLK Day, and that Newt Gingrich voted AGAINST it.http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h1979-624
Your link shows RP voting to change MLK JR day from Jan15 to the third Monday of January. RP voted against MLK JR day.
Otherwise your point being that the entire right-wing has a racist core as its past, not just RP?
I know what you're referring to - it is a different bill. There is a difference.
He voted for the MLK day in 1979.
http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....=h1979-624
He voted against MLK being a public sector holiday that government, for example, takes that day off.
http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....=h1983-289
Oh, and my point is that the very first neoconservative, William Buckley, was racist. Yet, he is not only praised by the Koch brothers, but also praised by the same person pretending that he is a righteous person fighting racism by submitting the newsletters to Reuters.
The question we have to ask is - why would James Kirchick, fighting against racism supposedly, honor a racist like William Buckley at his eulogy?
So when someone like that tries to smear Mr. Paul, while being backed by the Koch Brothers who hate Ron Paul - and cannot prove that Ron Paul wrote all of the racist passages, it significantly lacks credibility.
You know, I self identified as a libertarian in 1992, joined the LP the following year, and stayed active for several years. This was before the internet, when nearly all communication was through newsletters, and I thought I'd seen everything newsletter that existed, and even met Ron Paul, I never even heard of the newsletters until 1996, and back then there weren't enough libertarians to shake a stick at. When Kirchick put out his story in 08, my first thought was how did this ass bag get ahold of something like this? I just wondered if HE had a pipeline or connection of sorts to the people responsible. Just curious, and I think your post touches on that. I think Kirchick's discovery would yield some interesting treasures.
Good writeup Bruce.
Good writeup Bruce.
Good writeup Bruce.
I don't get it... Ron Paul has disavowed the ugly content of the newsletters and he has taken responsibility for what was published under his name. CNN's Borger was right that her questions were legitimate but what she failed to acknowledge, and what this author has failed to acknowledge, is that Ron Paul's answers to this concern are equally legitimate. Ron Paul has done everything this author has proposed he do, minus the theatrics of a major speech. But the same questions persist regardless of the myriad times when Paul has answered. That's the nature of a smear campaign, the answers simply don't matter at all compared to the ugly question, despite clear, consistent answers being provided time and time again. This is journalistic dishonesty at its worst.
It's more than a "smear campaign." For many people in the United States today, being a "racist" is the greatest possible sin. That's been drilled into people through the media, the schools, and social pressure for decades. It's a major tool for the left to dismiss the right, and for the media to attack Republicans.
Paul has a number of problems that will prevent him from being a successful candidate, but the newsletters are kryptonite. Sorry, but barring something like a nuclear war, there is simply no apology or explanation that Paul could give that would allow him to defeat Obama, or even win the nomination. The media will hang him with the newsletters... the way they should have hung Obama with Wright and Ayers if they were fair, but they aren't. They're Democrat partisans, and that colors their whole worldview. A Democrat can choose to belong to a church run by a radical racist loon and friend of dictators, and be good pals with a communist terrorist, and that can all be explained away. But Republicans and Libertarians don't get any breaks.
I urge you to wait to see where the chips fall before deciding the cast. The populace hates racism, yes, and good for that, but they hate cynical plays at using the race card and they hate the MSM, as well.
And everybody hates Mittens!
Everyone discriminates, and many people are racist. They just like to pretend they aren't.
Deep down, Paul's newsletters don't bother people who understand libertarian theory, or understand he is being smeared, or are right wing and have traditional racist values which have always been a part of American culture.
But they will bother the other 70%.
They're Democrat partisans, and that colors their whole worldview. A Democrat can choose to belong to a church run by a radical racist loon and friend of dictators, and be good pals with a communist terrorist, and that can all be explained away. But Republicans and Libertarians don't get any breaks.
Why would Republicans or Libertarians want any breaks from such people?
Paul has a number of problems that will prevent him from being a successful candidate, but the newsletters are kryptonite. Sorry, but barring something like a nuclear war, there is simply no apology or explanation that Paul could give that would allow him to defeat Obama, or even win the nomination.
I have three words for anyone that says __________(fill in the blank) cannont possibly be elected.
Those three words are:
Barack Hussein Obama
It wasn't that long ago that serious people were saying:
That America was not ready to elect a black president.
That America was a christian(ist) nation that would not elect a non christian.
That American was a center right country that would never elect an open leftist
That America was dominated by WASPs and anyone non WASP with a funny name could not be elected.
BHO's election invalidated all of those premises and demonstrates that anyone can be elected.
"For many people in the United States today, being a "racist" is the greatest possible sin."
10 years ago, yes.
At this point, the race card has been overplayed, and most people know that this issue isn't, um, black and white.
Short version: people don't really give a shit so much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHKIMOgoJoU
Someone with the technical know-how oughta make a video montage of all the times Ron Paul has explicitly apologized denounced and disavowed the newsletters from the 2008 campaign and the present.
Then plaster copies of it here, National Review, the Weekly Standard, CNN and everywhere else that's still repeating the lie that he's sidestepped them.
It will also expose everyone's true motives - are they more concerned as they claim about a disavowal from Paul? Or is this really just about outing Rockwell and settling an old score?
It's not enough. Ron Paul must shave naked, don sackcloth and ashes, and performance a penance walk from Birmingham, Alabama to Memphis, Tennessee.
Only then will his sins be cleansed.
Ron said it, I believe it, and that's that right? Paulites have a lot more in common with religious zealots than rational thought...
Your alternative to Ron Paul is? I'm sure they don't have any baggage.
The alternative is to let brown and black people around the world continue to be imprisoned and mass murdered.
That's how important the "racism" in these newsletters is to these supposed libertarian folks and particularly people like Steve Horowitz and Matt Welch.
They'll happily let innocent people die before they risk getting their hands dirty.
Good work Gillespie and Shikha, my prisons will continue to be filled with the inferior races if you keep up your work to promote the drug war.
If it comes down to Paul or Reason for credibility, a lot of people are going to trust Paul.
The reason is, Paul has something on the line. Libertarians understand incentives, Reason has little Koch funding to lose by promoting this angle, god knows they don't have a high circulation rate, these posts cost them subscribers.
Paul on the other hand has a career and a legacy on the line, and little to gain from being discredited and shunned by the liberal and libertarian press who are doing exactly what the GOP establishment want them to do.
Once I heard what these newsletters contained, I immedicately suspected Rothbard and Rockwell. I subscribed to the RRR in the 1990s based on a radio appearance by Rockwell I heard. Once I started receiving it, I was taken aback at how racially charged it was.
More specifically, this attack all started by James Kirchick - who is affiliated with a group that is funded by Charles Koch.
The really weird thing is that James Kirchick is accusing Ron Paul of racism, but he spoke at a Eulogy for William Buckley, praising Buckley as a "gracious intellectual".
Keep in mind that Buckley has done multiple racist editorials for nearly 5 decades for the National Review where he called Negroes retarded, promoted Apartheid in South Africa, & called MLK a communist sex maniac (also hated the fact that MLK would get an MLK day after him).
Ron Paul voted for MLK day - something that an accused "racist" doesn't really do.
Funny thing is, Newt Gingrich voted against it.
The Koch brothers don't want Dr. Paul or Lubertarian values to progress. That's why the cooped the Tea Party and turned it into a complete joke.
Truth.
Lube-rtarian?
Lube-rtarian?
noun
a person who believes in personal liberty AND in not going in dry
soooooo, not STEVE SMITH?
The Reason Foundation is funded by the Kochs.
http://reason.org/about/faq/
William Dunn is Koch affiliates and David Koch is on the board of trustees. Like Mercatus and Cato, these are components of the Koch's operation since the 70s to control libertarianism in the US.
'control libertarianism'- that's funny. Good luck with that.
Also John McCain voted against MLT day.
He says "Gooks" alot too.
Also John McCain voted against MLT day.
Sonny, true love is the greatest thing in the world. Except for a nice MLT: a mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe. They're so perky, I love that.
...called MLK a communist sex maniac...
Alright, now that is just outrageously beyond the pale. I mean - just because a guy has marxist friends and associates, or cheats on his wife - that doesn't mean he's some kind of Lefty or has sexual issues.
don't you have a crooked schlong?
Or he can tell the truth which is that although he had his name on the newsletters, he was not involved in the day to day operations and was not aware of the controversial statements until years later. Once aware, he disavowed the statements.
Why try to read more into the answer that he's been giving for the last 20 years?
Just googling I see your name pops up at National Review a lot. One dead link looks like it could be a teaser to an article by you, so I'm wondering if you have ever took work from those people with their sordid history.
The fact that Reason keeps peddling Rockwell as the main suspect, even though the evidence for him writing the controversial newsletters is circumstantial at best, suggests this is more about discrediting the Mises/Rothbard-wing of Libertarianism than actual concerns over Paul
I agree that he could have handled this better, for the record. But Reason is making a mountain out of an anthill
this is more about discrediting the Mises/Rothbard-wing of Libertarianism
I hope you're right about Reason vs Rothbard. Gives me hope for Reason.
Are you mentally retarded, Ryan? It's not reason making a mountain out of a molehill (or anthil). It's reason reporting on the MSM making a mountain out of a ...well, a mountain. What is included in these newsletters is disgusting on it's face. And if a candidate had written the words himself, he would be more likely to be elected Grand Kleagle than County Dogcatcher. People (and I mean most Paul supporters) need to get that through their thick skulls. The fact that he didn't write these is irrelevant up to and until he names names. Only then will he have fully disassociated himself from the comments and the perception that he is protecting the person who wrote them.
And sorry, while I'm a huge Paul supporter, I find it unconscionable that he has not publicly denounced the person who wrote this garbage by name.
A couple observations:
1. As has been amply proven in the past few weeks, Ron Paul's newsletters were no worse than anything that appeared in "mainstream" political right publications like National Review during the same time period.
2. That doesn't excuse them, but it DOES prove they are being selectively singled out by people who conveniently "looked the other way" when Buckley was spewing overtly racist garbage.
3. Among the people who willingly look the other way on Buckley's racist material are James Kirchick, author of the original newsletters smear piece, and - yes - Reason Magazine itself, which not only sees fit to look past Buckley's racism but actually credits him for "kicking out" the racist elements of the right, when in fact we now know he embraced them.
I quote:
"By creating National Review in 1955 as a serious, intellectually respectable conservative voice (challenging the New Deal consensus among thinking people), Buckley created space for the development of our movement. He kicked out the racists and conspiracy-mongers from conservatism and embraced Chicago and Austrian economists, introducing a new generation to Hayek, Mises, and Friedman. And thanks to the efforts of NR's Frank Meyer to promote a "fusion" between economic (free-market) conservatives and social conservatives, Buckley and National Review fostered the growth of a large enough conservative movement to nominate Goldwater for president and ultimately to elect Ronald Reagan."
Source:http://reason.com/archives/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-jr-rip
Jerry,
1. Very true.
2. It doesn't matter what Buckley said or did. We're living in the present. Saying what was written in Paul's name isn't as bad as what others have wrote is a red herring. It doesn't change what was actually written in Paul's name.
3.Again we are in the present. The fact that others looked the other way in the past but aren't doing so now is irrelevant to the bigger task at hand: namely trying to get Ron Paul elected President.
I will repeat: until he denounces the person who wrote this trash, and denounces them by name, he's screwed because the media will not back away. They want Titties or Romney because they know Obama will crush them. And since this is really all they have on Paul, they are gonna hammer away at him as long as they can.
If we're so firmly in the present that we can't talk about what others wrote in the past...
THEN
...why are you harping on endlessly about newsletters that were written 20 years ago, the need to know who ghost-wrote those newsletters 20 years ago, and what those 20 year old newsletters mean for a presidential election going on right now?
I fully agree we should leave the past in the past, but I'm not the one who took us down that route. You and others like you did. And in response, I'm only pointing out that what's good for the Ron Paul goose is also good for the William F. Buckley gander.
I didn't take us down this path. The media did. And you are right in pointing out the Buckley racism. Now, did he write that in Romney's name?
Again, there is nothing wrong with crediting someone for their own work. In fact, there is everything right in doing so.
If you have read reason for a while you would know they never waste a chance to praise Buckley and the purge of the non-interventionists. They never bring up Buckley racism, but they always act as if the non-interventionist anti-fed libertarians are racist.
Some people are just interested to know why. It sorta shows where reason is coming from. They are funded by people who support the money printing power of the fed and a big humanity destroying military industrial complex.
Oh, horseshit, Gabe. They praise non-interventionism in general, and rarely if ever bring up the personalities that espouse it.
Non-interventionism is a concept, and Buckley doesn't have a trademark on it. So every time they bring up non-interventionism, they are not necessarily talking about Buckley.
And Jim (Gojira) is right.* If he were running for President, his comments or comments made in his name would be relevant.
*Although I still vehemently disagree with him on Rambo (4?) and/or Christmas Vacation 2.
they always act as if the non-interventionist anti-fed libertarians are racist.
"Anti-Fed." I wonder if you haven't nailed the problem right there. It's hard to miss the fact that those who question the policies of the Federal Reserve and the rest of the financial elite, as Ron Paul does, often get accused of anti-semitism.
Romney is LDS. The LDS held racist policy (no blacks in priesthood)while Romney was an adult. The LDS reneged on its racist policy. Romney is absolved.
That's easy: RP is running for president. That makes his specific past relevant. It does not make relevant the past of others, who are 1) not running for president, and more importantly, 2) are dead.
If William F. Buckley were running for president, then the things he wrote would matter, and the RP newsletters would not.
If William F. Buckley were running for president, then the things he wrote would matter, and the RP newsletters would not.
Not anywhere near goddamn good enough of an excuse. Buckley's hand picked successor got this crap going last Monday. American Spectator, another publication with a vile Apartheid loving past, quickly joined in. I can point to racism expressed and advocated amongst the still living at The New Republic, The National Review, Commentary and American Spectator. If they want to destroy Ron Paul, they are going to fucking go down too.
I can point to racism expressed and advocated amongst the still living at The New Republic, The National Review, Commentary and American Spectator. If they want to destroy Ron Paul, they are going to fucking go down too.
Then you should point it out, chris. But do so for the right reasons. Those reasons being because racism is despicable, not because "they said it first."
No, Lowry is correct. The right needs a purge. However, he underestimates how far it should go. I say all of it.
That is the right reason.
And another one. Here is Jennifer Rubin. Blogger for the Washington Post not twenty years ago.
GILAD He's free and he's home in the bosom of his family and his country. Celebrate, Israel, with all the joyous gratitude that fills your hearts, as we all do along with you.
Then round up his captors, the slaughtering, death-worshiping, innocent-butchering, child-sacrificing savages who dip their hands in blood and use women ? those who aren't strapping bombs to their own devils' spawn and sending them out to meet their seventy-two virgins by taking the lives of the school-bus-riding, heart-drawing, Transformer-doodling, homework-losing children of Others ? and their offspring ? those who haven't already been pimped out by their mothers to the murder god ? as shields, hiding behind their burkas and cradles like the unmanned animals they are, and throw them not into your prisons, where they can bide until they're traded by the thousands for another child of Israel, but into the sea, to float there, food for sharks, stargazers, and whatever other oceanic carnivores God has put there for the purpose.
What part of that is acceptable discourse? Yet, Paul's critics behave as if we are the one's with a racism problem when they fraternize with Rubin. I've never seen a Bircher make a remark that eliminationist in scope.
And to think William Faulkner used to be accused of writing "run on" sentences. Sheesh!
You're right - "they said it first" is not a good reason.
But "people in glass houses should not throw stones" sure is.
You are correct, Jerry.
To know about the newsletters, you have to look into the past. William Buckley is a racist that plays an important role in the sense that the very person accusing Ron Paul of racism was caught praising William Buckley with a eulogy.
Then to see he is connected to a group funded by Charles Koch himself, who also praises William Buckley, and a trustee of Reason.com (David Koch) also praised William Buckley as well - concerns me.
Because now I'm starting to ask why would all three of these people praise a racist, but then pretend to fight racism at the same time.
Because what they are really fighting is any close look into the Federal Reserve or financial dealings of the big banking houses?
Conversation concluded. Next.
You're falling into the trap sloopy.
You're probably right. But I can't help it. I want Paul to win badly, and I cannot help but wonder aloud why he won't do the sensible, ethical and politically expedient thing.
Because "naming names" it is not sensible, ethical or politically expedient would be the likeliest explanation.
Please see my response above explaining what I meant.
Sorry, I gave the help Christmas off. You don't expect me to scroll through that myself do ya sloopy?
You don't expect me to scroll through that myself do ya sloopy?
No, so I'll sum up for you:
I retorted to several people. I was proven right. They changed their opinions.
Think of it this way, yes the statements were published while under his 'watch'. That is why he is ultimately taking responsibility for this, and not passing the blame onto someone else. This shows TRUE character and responsibility. When have the other politicians accepted fault for something they have done, (which btw many have done way worse things then some supposed 'racist' remarks by Paul)? They haven't. Paul is an honest, genuine man and if you would look at his voting record and any of his speeches you would see that it could not have possibly been his words. Btw at the time the statements were written new staff was being rolled in and out of Paul's campaign, it's very likely that someone who disliked Paul (or got paid off to do it) inserted those statements. Look up ghost writers too, it might help clue you in. Lastly, during this period he was on call as a physician 24/7, often working 60 hour weeks while routinely lowering fees and working for free, often for MINORITIES with NO INSURANCE. Doesn't make sense, huh?
Do you think for a second any of that is important to the media? They're in the tank for Obama, and will use every opportunity they can to undermine the candidacy of the one upstanding man in the race. That is why I said naming names is the right thing to do. It will take away the ammunition of the media, will marginalize Obama's ability to focus on it at the risk of Jeremiah Wright's absurd racism being brought to light, and will allow Paul to focus in the differences between he and Obama politically as opposed to always being on the defensive.
Jesus, we live in a reality where libertarian ideals are loathed and feared by the mainstream media as well as both major political parties. We have to circumvent their efforts to undermine our strongest candidates, and the only way I can see Paul doing this is by naming names here. Failure to do so will be at his peril.
The point of the matter is that placing the blame on someone else is not ethical, and that's what Paul is all about. Ethics. The media can smear this all they want, but with people like me and other supporters shouting out the facts, then people will learn the truth. Dr. Paul saying, "Oh hey! John Smith wrote these articles, go focus on him and leave me alone!" Would really work out well, don't you think?
And of course the media doesn't give a shit about the facts, they're all controlled by private bankers and special interest corporations, the same people Ron Paul is fighting AGAINST. No shit they wouldn't be interested in 'the truth'.
Again, this is about getting the man elected. If he's got to throw one racist past associate under the bus to do that, it's OK with me.*
*Besides, what's wrong with actually giving someone credit for their own work?
What on earth is unethical about revealing who wrote the pieces? I can see "uncomfortable" or "doesn't want to hang his friends out to dry," but I have a very hard time imagining circumstances outside of things like hiding Jews in the attic from the SS where telling the full truth is unethical.
It makes it unethical because his name was endorsed on the newsletters. Therefore, he was ultimately responsible for the material in there, which he happened to have overlooked. That'd be like Fox News saying it wasn't responsible for something that Chris Wallace said in an interview that was shown on their network.
He's ultimately manning up and taking responsibility (being ethical) about this situation.
Also, like I stated above, they could perhaps not even KNOW who did write those statements, being that people were rolling in and out of his office so much during this time period.
That'd be like Fox News saying it wasn't responsible for something that Chris Wallace said in an interview that was shown on their network.
I'd be willing to bet if Chris Wallace said something that went against Fox News's core principles, they'd take responsibility, but they'd also distance themselves from him and send him packing.
Well, for the side rooting for Paul, the question is how best to handle this issue.
It sounds like people are divided between
1. Keep denouncing and disavowing it, and hopefully voters will get tired of MSM's attempts at character assassination, or
2. Name the individual responsible for the words, and hope the MSM or voters won't look at it as flip-flopping on the issue.
I'd say the best way to choose is to look at poll numbers, and that's probably what his campaign needs to do. If his numbers are slipping, I think you could easily attribute that to the newsletters, and at which point he needs to cough up a name.
I root for Paul, I say fuck it, if the people want more statism vote for Obama, vote for Romney, enjoy poverty and war stupid bitches!
"That'd be like Fox News saying it wasn't responsible for something that Chris Wallace said in an interview that was shown on their network."
That's not remotely the same thing, in that Paul's newsletters were not written by him and only had his name on the cover, while if Chris Wallace made offensive statements, they would be his statements. A far more apt analogy would be holding the management of ABC/ESPN responsible for Rush Limbaugh's comments on Monday Night Football about Donovan McNabb years ago. If you're going to make a comparison, at least make an honest one.
I don't pay any attention to sports, so I have no clue what you're talking about. But I think you're splitting hairs between that analogy and mine, so there's nothing really else I can say on the matter. I'm not saying Chris Wallace would ever do something that went against Fox's agenda, it was hypothetical to create the analogy. That IF Chris Wallace had said something racist that slipped under Fox's editors and was shown on Fox's network (like statements from someone in Paul's newsletter slipping by Paul and/or his editors), then Fox (Paul) in no way whatsoever would be responsible for something that was broadcasted (published) on their network (newsletters)? I think we're rooting for the same man here contrarian, I think you just may have taken some of my comments out of context from my other ones.
By the way, just to clarify I'm not saying that Ron Paul has to take 100% responsibility for it, but he does feel an obligation to own up to it somewhat, is how I feel. And that my friends, is being ethical.
McNabb is overrated-see how fast his star has fallen?
McNabb is overrated-see how fast his star has fallen?
If the media is for Obama, I would think they'd be excited about Ron Paul. Rather, I would say the media is about hedging bets and although they might pretend to hate Republican Liberals, they'll take them any day over a dangerous-to-the-status-quo outsider.
I extremely dislike conspiracy theory. Conspiracy dissolves once more than one person is involved. Someone tells on the other. The media is not a conspiracy. It is rather a cult. Cult is a better term. Cults are people who adhere to a world view based on education by inculcation (which is nearly all of us minus 5%).
I am excited that more than 5% is excited to break away from the static bell curve.
Think of it this way, yes the statements were published while under his 'watch'. That is why he is ultimately taking responsibility for this, and not passing the blame onto someone else. This shows TRUE character and responsibility. When have the other politicians accepted fault for something they have done, (which btw many have done way worse things then some supposed 'racist' remarks by Paul)? They haven't. Paul is an honest, genuine man and if you would look at his voting record and any of his speeches you would see that it could not have possibly been his words. Btw at the time the statements were written new staff was being rolled in and out of Paul's campaign, it's very likely that someone who disliked Paul (or got paid off to do it) inserted those statements. Look up ghost writers too, it might help clue you in. Lastly, during this period he was on call as a physician 24/7, often working 60 hour weeks while routinely lowering fees and working for free, often for MINORITIES with NO INSURANCE. Doesn't make sense, huh?
OT: I was watching The Black Cande, it's a documentary about Kwanzaa, narrated by Maya Angelou.
My question: Maya Angelou really sucks and the only reason nobody criticizes her is because she's black, right?
"During the early years of Kwanzaa, Karenga said that it was meant to be an alternative to Christmas, that Jesus was psychotic, and that Christianity was a white religion that black people should shun."
Merry Christmas yah honkies!
I think that many people criticize Kwanzaa simply because it is understood to apply exclusively to African-Americans. I am of that ilk. I have made jokes about Kwanzaa with nary an idea of what it is.
I think I based it on the ridiculous elevation of Hannukah to Christmas-level for multi-cultural reasons that border on coincidence. Funny enough, I kinda understand Hannukah (Maccabean Restoration after Hellenic de-Mastery) but I also understand that it ain't the biggest deal Judaicly-speaking.
Personally, I love mythology only because I think it is silly and captivates the human mind and helps explain my own retarded propensities. Most people have trouble with modern mythology and give amazing grace to old mythology. Mythology is mythology. Buddhism was made up of whole cloth at some point.
I can't read this article without thinking about Birthers. It's the same "if you ignore everything but this handful of facts, my hypothetical explanation could be correct...so he needs to publicly announce that it IS correct." There's no reason to accept Horwitz's conspiracy theory, and certainly no reason Paul should dignify it with a response. The questions have been answered. Your wish for more headline-worthy answers doesn't make the existing ones false. Sorry.
Denver Conspiracy Examiner Story to spread everywhere on your social networks! DO IT! http://www.examiner.com/conspi.....g-ron-paul
Paul can decry the statements all he wants. He can show where he is not a racist all day long. He can plead ignorance till he is blue in the face.
Until he names the assholes who wrote this garbage in his name, however, he will be ridiculed in the MSM and will be marginalized out of this race. The sooner he figures this out and publicly denounces the person who wrote these newsletters by name, the sooner we can move on from this and get down to defeating Mitt & Titties.
I'm sure Ron Paul has zero interest in doing the journalists' jobs for them in finding out who wrote the offending newsletters.
Is it the job of the journalists to find out which person working for Paul wrote a bunch of racist shit in Paul's name? I can assure you of one thing, if the person worked for me and did this in my name, I'd be bound and determined to find out who it was and publicly shame him every opportunity I got for the rest of my life. That way the media would know damn good and well where I stood on the issue.
And yet as you harp on that, his numbers only have gone up.
Throw me in that briar patch!
Yeah, because this is the matter that concerns the nation the most: who has written some racially insensitive sentences in an obscure newsletter 20 years ago.
Is there any other information you demand from Ron Paul before you deem him eligible to run in the primaries? Maybe the identity of a thief who has stolen some bicycle 20 years ago?
He does not know who wrote those few newsletters with a racist comment in them because he was not closely involved in the newsletter management and he was made aware of those comments only 10 years later. Is that so difficult to understand or believe?
He does not know who wrote those few newsletters with a racist comment in them because he was not closely involved in the newsletter management and he was made aware of those comments only 10 years later. Is that so difficult to understand or believe?
Actually, yes, it is hard to believe. For to believe it, you have to assume that there was not a soul around him that didn't pull him aside and let him know what was written in his name. And, according to Paul, there was a small group of people working on the newsletter at that time. He's thrown the number around as 8-10. It wouldn't be hard for him to spend enough time digging until he found out who wrote it and call him out on it.
Is it really asking too much for the man to point the finger at whoever did this to his reputation? Shit, if I found out somebody wrote this in my name, I'd spend whatever it took to make sure my reputation wasn't sullied. Paul, for some reason, seems to think it's not necessary. I believe it will ultimately cost him dearly. Just wait till after Iowa. The media, and his GOP opponents, will be merciless in tying him to these letters unless he names and condemns the person who wrote them. If you can't see this, you're blind.
Re: sloopyinca,
It would mean Paul is no better than Obama and other phonies when it comes to pushing his old friends under the bus whenever expediency dictates. Do you want a president like that again, S?
pushing his old friends under the bus whenever expediency dictates.
If they really believe the racist things they wrote, they're friends Paul could do without.
When you find yourself using mom-logic like that, you have lost the argument.
Really? Have you never stopped being friends with someone because you found out they had a core belief you were totally at odds with? I know I have.
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool atheist and I have Christian friends. I manage to not hassle them to repudiate certain Biblical passages, and I don't worry about whether they would or not if I tried.
If they wrote for a newsletter in your name and spewed a bunch of hate speech, would you still feel the same about them?
"hate speech"
You mean "thoughtcrime"? Good grief, sloop. Don't buy into that bullshit. You're better than that.
I should have said "perceived hate speech." You are correct in pointing out my error.
Hate speech bad, fema camps good
Romney/Obama 2012,
Um, needs a bit more context. If I liked and valued their opinions on, I don't know... birdwatching and I was a famous birdwatcher and hired them to write for my largely ignored newsletter about birdwatching and, in their writing, they would occasionally couch their admiration for birds in terms of God's Creations or even something to the effect "proves Darwin wrong" (shudder). Years later when I'm trying to get a job at an aviary run by hippie atheists (maybe I had a stroke or something...), some of the hippies bring up the newsletters and four or five instances of Creationist content that had been gleaned from them over the years.
They tell me this seems to indicate a belief in God, and that simply won't work for this job since, if I believe in God, I might try to be lazy and just pray God will do my job for me.
I'd be pissed at the hippies, not the Christians. I wouldn't even care which one wrote it.
I'd be pissed at the hippies, not the Christians. I wouldn't even care which one wrote it.
That's hardly a fair analogy. Hippies are the scum of the earth. Of course you'd be more pissed at them. Hell, I'm pissed at you for even thinking of applying for a fictitious job at a fictitious aviary run by fictitious hippies.
Hippies are the scum of the earth.
Huh? I thought it was black and brown people who are the scum of the Earth. Oh wait - that would be biggoted garbage, wouldn't it?
Yes, but if you had even the sense of humor of a turnip, you would realize I was speaking in jest.
Jesus, period, you'd think you were on...your period.*
*Your name makes more sense than it did a few minutes ago.
It would mean Paul is no better than Obama and other phonies when it comes to pushing his old friends under the bus whenever expediency dictates.
You mean like Holder, and Chu and Emmanuel?
OM, loyalty is important but it is a slippery slope to cronyism.
The truth is that any true "friends" of Paul that wrote the offensive parts of these newsletters are damaging Ron Paul and the ideals that they claim to hold. If they were real friends they would out themselves. WTF, it's not like we're talking about criminal offenses or even actionable torts. The only harm that they would suffer is bruised egos and really how bad could that be for Lew or Gary?
You mean like Holder, and Chu and Emmanuel?
Oh crap. Those guys just haven't made Obozo look bad enough yet. If he thinks Holder is becoming any real danger to his re-election chances, that dude will be gone in a heartbeat.
Unless he has something on Obama, of course.
I second this. It is very hard to believe that he didn't know what the content of those newsletters were. I doubt he is a racist, but probably wanted the support of those types of conservatives and allowed a few bones to be thrown their way. He probably figured it was better that he got their money rather than someone who actually held racist views.
I think even if he names names, he still must take the blame himself.
I think his defense needs to be to point out how there is no racism in the political ideas that he supports. He should state that there is no way to truly know what is in a politician's mind, so merely asking him if he is a racist is pointless. Candidates need to be judged by the positions they hold. For example he can ask reporters, "if I am a racist then why am I the only candidate to support ending the WOD," and explain how that would benefit minority communities.
To be frank, the entire right wing deserves to go down given its racist recent history (the progressives are by no means exempt - modern racism born in genetic theory is their baby hell spawn), and what is currently happening in the form of crude racism towards Arabs. To allow the establishment right to make Paul the scapegoat for their sins because he participated through negligence on the margins would be a grave injustice.
It all needs to be aired out.
Tony, if you are listening, and other liberal journalist, do you understand the opportunity that Lowry and the American Spectator have provided you with here? They have accepted your critique of the right to the extent it can be used against Paul. It is a wedge they have provided you that can be used against all of your right wing enemies. Go for it. Believe me, I subscribed to all of the right wing publications of the late eighties and early nineties, the material is easy to find. Much of what they wrote like support for Apartheid was only questionably acceptable then is entirely unacceptable now to the extent it would shock most anyone under thirty. Go for it. Dig in. Vanquish us all.
Here is one strategy you can use that can accomplish a small to decent sized chunk of your goals to discredit the right. You understand the large role William F. Buckley plays in defining its mainstream current. If you can turn his name into mud, you'll go a long way into discrediting them in general. Here is how you do it.
Kathleen Parker has a syndicated column that is picked up by a majority of the dailies in the country. Periodically, she uses her space to praise the mythic great slayer of the anti-Semitic and racist beast on the right, by the name of William F. Buckley.
You have a national network, that hits papers simultaneously. I've seen it in action on several occasions where form like letters go out from simpatico locals to get a message out, no reason to deny it. I actually admire the strategy!
Next time Parker praises the Great One, make sure her readers become aware of his history that has been laid bare in post above. If you did that, pretty soon his name becomes persona non grata amongst the good and true who hold respectable positions on all things.
Er... just for the sake of argument, why do you think it so vital that Ron Paul name the writer or writers? What does it matter?
^THIS^
It matters for two reasons:
1. It's the only way the media will let it go.
2. It's the right thing to do. Until he denounces the person by name, many people (me included) will look at it as silent assent.
If Ron Paul names the writer then everything that writer has written becomes someone Paul must answer for. That is how this works.
People pushing this won't be content unless Ron Paul drops out.
And the media won't stop covering it until they figure it isn't an issue of interest anymore (should be soon since even with all of Reason's help this hasn't had much traction with voters).
Re: Sloopyinca,
It won't. These newsletters thing is the new "birth certificate" thing. It won't go away until president Paul leaves office.
No. It would be cowardly and dishonorable.
These newsletters thing is the new "birth certificate" thing.
Except there's no argument worthy of being taken seriously that Obama isn't a US citizen. On the other hand, Ron Paul definitely let this shit go out in his name.
I'll be voting for him no matter what, but it's absolutely mind-blowing to me that he won't do as much as possible to minimize this.
These newsletters thing is the new "birth certificate" thing.
Except there's no argument worthy of being taken seriously that Obama isn't a US citizen. On the other hand, Ron Paul definitely let this shit go out in his name.
I'll be voting for him no matter what, but it's absolutely mind-blowing to me that he won't do as much as possible to minimize this.
The right thing would be if Lew Rockwell would fess up and confess to writing them, but he is a chickenshit coward
1. It's the only way the media will let it go.
lol
Ron Paul is RACIST was/is going to be the dominant narrative if the newsletters had never existed.
1. It's the only way the media will let it go.
lol
Ron Paul is RACIST was/is going to be the dominant narrative even if the newsletters had never existed.
Re: SIV,
Exactly. The MSM would simply create some convoluted argument that anybody that wants to get rid of the department of the interior must be a racist.
Hey, I put a lot of stock in your and SIV's opinions. You guys make well-thought-out arguments and truly stand for liberty.
That said, I just have to disagree here. Paul can change the narrative here and put the newsletter issue behind him. Then, there's nothing in Paul's past the media can dredge up that points to racism. The man has stood up for minorities at every turn.
Again, I think the only way Paul can marginalize the claims of the media as well as the GOP and DNC establishments is to name and disavow the racist who wrote these newsletters.
Re:sloopyinca,
That is exactly what makes the newsletters a non issue. People did not want to believe that Obama was a leftist radical that associated himself with terrorists and race-baiting ministers. You know the rest.
That is exactly what makes the newsletters a non issue. People did not want to believe that Obama was a leftist radical that associated himself with terrorists and race-baiting ministers. You know the rest.
That is exactly why the newsletters should be a non issue. People were told not to believe that Obama was a leftist radical that associated himself with terrorists and race-baiting ministers. You know the rest.
FIFY!
Cutting entitlements is racist against the poor. Cutting the Federal workforce is genocide on the African-American middle class. Ending the Federal Reserve's mandate to maximize employment? Women and minorities hardest hit. See how it works?
Constitutionally limited government is de facto racist to progressives both left center and center-right. Even the "libertarian"-twits like Horwitz denounce "constitutional fetishism" as Will Wilkinson likes to call it.
1. opinion
2. opinions
I applaud you for setting such a high bar for a Presidential candidate. Surely, Ron Paul falls short.
My father told me (more than once): 'Always keep sufficient skeletons in your closet so that you don't even think of running for office.'
Good advice. Ron Paul's skeletons are not buried (I can only wish that he slept with Marilyn Chambers) which might be worrisome to the weak. But his skeletons are such even weaker compared to the competion such that the he is the leader in the 'greater of more freedoms' vs. that other category.
I applaud the Kochs. Reason is a great website. I disagree with Shikha here. Paul owes nobody any explanation. Strategically, he should dismiss the issue, not call attention to it. No one would understand his response anyway. Most think that he is too old (talk about stupid talking pts.) anyway. Why not open up with: Let's go with the old soon-to-die bigot Libertarian and then focus on the non-issue of his VP ticket just like the press diverted attention from John McCain, who is still alive, to an upstart understudy who refuses to study, assuming that she'd be the most powerful MAN in the world.
This world is gayer than shit, I tell you.
I supported Ron Paul in 2008 (when I first heard of this newsletters controversy) and am supporting him again, much to the consternation of my more liberal friends. I believe Mr. Paul when he says he didn't write this horrible stuff. However, people need to read this article and take it seriously. RP's campaign is going to go down in flames if there's not a more comprehensive response than has been offered so far. Yes, there's a coordinated campaign to discredit the man. Yes, O-romney takes contributions from Goldman Sachs, but SO WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!! It's time to take real responsibility people!
When does Romney abandon his racist church that wouldn't allow blacks to become deacons or priests until 1978?
When does Mitt Romney answer for skipping out of the Morgan State "African American" debate in 2007?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwEStlM8dA4
When does Romney abandon his racist church that wouldn't allow blacks to become deacons or priests until 1978?
As soon as he's pressed by the media to.
The Mormon Church is not racist. It had some racists in high position in the past. It is decidedly not so now.
Maybe not now since their pope guy or whoever had a "revealation from God" in 1978 that said it's all ok now and you can let blacks be priests. When Romney heard the news on the radio he was driving around the Fresh Pond rotary in MA and felt compelled to pull over to the side of the road and weep tears of joy at the news. He sure lays it on thick don't he?
And not to pile on here, but why did Romney sit by silently prior to the change in LDS doctrine?
Sorry, but I would have expected him to be vocally outraged at a policy he felt compelled to weep for joy once it was changed.
(Godwin alert)
It's like the Germans that had been silent during the war, but cried tears of joy as the Allies marched into Berlin.
It's like the Germans that had been silent during the war, but cried tears of joy as the Allies marched into Berlin.
You know, if I had lived in Nazi Germany during the War, I might have thought it wise to keep my mouth shut, too, considering the policies of the Gestapo at the time. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have been sincerely glad to see the Allies march into Berlin.
prole,
The Mormon Church is 'racist' as long as it adheres to the 'Book of Mormon'; Christianity is 'racist' as long as it adheres to the 'Bible'; Judaism is racist as long as it adheres to the Torah; Islam is racist as long as it adheres to the Koran.
No worries, a fatwah was already issued on me.
What the fuck ever, dumbass. The Christian bible renounces the entire Old Testament for the New, so explain to me which of Jesus' teachings were racist.
"The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims.
Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees- while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality.
This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."
-Ron Paul, "What Really Divides Us", December 23, 2002
Reason will never do an article on this because it's not consistent with the Koch brothers defending the FED and American fascism.
No one who talks about the newsletters in the MSM or the KSM is interested in presenting a balanced perspective on Paul vis a vis race.
When the Constitution first became the law of the land it was widely understood and accepted that without private religion and morality there could be no liberty and no freedom from undue government coercion. As social control mechanisms (i.e. the family and the church) fell away, the state would inevitably begin to encroach on the private sphere and exceed its proper powers. What I just described is what Rockwell is talking about in the article you reference. He was correct then and he is correct now. Anyone that argues that the non-aggression principle alone is sufficient to hold a society together is either willfully ignorant or has led a very sheltered life. When you are a full blown drug addict or alcoholic the rights of your fellow man often take a backseat to your own short term gratification. I grew up in one of the worst ghettos in New York City when the crime rate was at its very highest. Anyone who's lived through such an experience understands and recognizes the truth of Rockwell's words. There must be private morality to buttress state authority and it must apply to everyone regardless of race. Entire areas were simply allowed to collapse into chaos because all forms of authority (public and private) were afraid of being called racist. No one was willing to tell the inhabitants of my neighborhood that they must stop using cocaine and heroin, that they must marry the mothers of their children and provide for those children, that simple disputes aren't to be solved by stabbing and shooting and the list goes on and on. This was Rockwell's point, that there must be a universal morality that applies to all people not one that is selectively applied based on politically correct concepts of pity and historical obligation. It is not racism to demand, my means of social and moral pressure, that men and women of all colors and ethnic backgrounds live a sober, honest and industrious life. It is also not racist to use force against violent criminals and thieves, regardless of their race, when circumstances require it. I for one do not care about the newsletters and truthfully neither will most Americans who can remember what the inner cities were like in the eighties and early nineties. Why? Because they have experienced what the newsletters describe. Ron Paul is the only Presidential candidate who will make a good faith effort to pull our economy and our Constitution back from the brink of oblivion. The need to elect him far outweighs any hurt feelings that might have resulted from his newsletters.
Here! Here!
total smear...
Nobody says they're taken out of context, they say he didn't write them.
Help me if I'm wrong here, as I haven't read too much about these newsletters....
But from what I understand:
These newsletters took place in the early 90s and Paul states he didn't write the stuff contained within the newsletters.
Would it be wrong to compare these newsletters with a website? For example, if Paul had a website with a forum, and people posted racial stuff on there, we wouldn't say that Paul believed these things b/c a forum poster posted these things on his site, just like we wouldn't say that Reason should be held responsible for everything that is written on its forum.
As I'm not familiar with how these newsletters were run, but from the little I've heard, it's basically a random/anonymous group of contributors to a letter under Paul's name, correct? So wouldn't these newsletters be equivalent to a website at the time, as in the early 90s the web was still in its infancy?
Re: Alex,
There is a difference which you and I have to concede: These newsletters bore his name and did not contain a disclaimer; they were thus not the same as an Internet blog.
However, the problem is not whether the content was written by a ghostwriter or not, but whether the content is really racist or homophobic. Now, I read every single paragraph of those newsletters and I cannot find a single sentence that can be construed as "racist" expect by the very disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.
For instance, the sentence ""order was restored only when blacks went to collect their welfare checks" could be construed as either inaccurate or biased if it were not true, but considering the facts behind the events, not particularly racist. Why? Because it so happens that black Americans rioted for 3 days after the so-called "Rodney King beating" trial. So saying that they stopped rioting because they went to get their checks cannot be construed as "racist" unless the people that actually rioted were totally different.
The other issues described on the newsletters was the way the AIDS epidemic was being totally politicized by the media and government. I remember those times as clear as water, as docudramas and protests and a series of writing and essays were directed at the Reagan administration's supposed lack of action in stemming the epidemic. The contention posited by the newsletter writer was that the gay community was being roused by special interest groups in order to get the government to spend the money (taxpayers money) on AIDS research. The libertarian position back then - as it would be now - is that you cannot simply plunder from people to pay for a cure for a disease that had clear indications of being transmitted because of the lifestyle chosen by gays (and I don't mean choosing to be gay, but choosing to be promiscuous.)
Again, TODAY it sounds biased and bigoted, but remember that back then the government was actively increasing spending on sexual education schemes to purportedly "raise awareness of sexually-transmitted diseases such as AIDS," which included giving away condoms to 10-year-old girls and crazy shit like that. So the geist of the essay was inspired by those events and not some particular hatred for gays.
And so on and so on... Clearly, much of this nefarious content that the Reason staff and many others would like you to believe permeated these newsletters was mostly nothing more than run of the mill conservative stuff, and many times pretty tame by the standards of THOSE DAYS.
I mean, read THIS:
"[J]ust as we like to think Gorbachev has truly renounced the evil doctrines he was so recently associated with, so has David Duke."
Did Nick or Matt point out this from the newsletters? Did Shalmia? Did Jesse or Weigel? No? Well, that's because it was written by William F. Buckley Jr. back in December 2, 1991. Oh, the above were quickly to show their phony outrage and the mere mention of Duke in one of the newsletters (which was actually explaining his strange appeal in Louisiana, not to praise him.) But they mention nothing about the ubiquitous hatred for gays and blacks by the "Conservative Establishment" of those days. And yet it is Paul who must hang for his apparent sins? Reason is to be the new Sanhedrin of libertarian thought?
Give me a break.
You forget something.
Just like James Kirchick, the folks at Reason like Buckley. They consider him the dear old kindly grandfather "who created intellectual space for the libertarian movement."
Source: http://reason.com/archives/200.....ley-jr-rip
Sorry, "... at the mere mention..." not "and."
Right on, Old Mexican.
I agree that the newsletters themselves are defensible (based on the few I've read, at least).
Unfortunately, the defense requires not only that each quote be read within context, but that each subject be considered within the events of the day (in this case, late '80's & early '90's). No small task.
And am I the only one old enough to remember Lee Atwater? He made a career out of racebaiting and was revered for it.
Re: The Angry RPh,
I remember he was some Republican strategist or something, that used to be a Democrat. I think.
From all I've read in Mises and Lewrockwell.com, the main culprit and ONLY culprit that is pointed out again and again is the government, through which various special interest groups try to shape the political and social landscape. This idea that Lew and Rothbard were pitting the "demise of civilization" on blacks and gays is nothing more than a misconstruing of their positions, almost to the point of defamation. In fact, both (and especially Rothbard) were very critical of the politics of race and victimhood played by the elitist left, which was (and is) dividing the country by arbitrary racial and other lines, in a "divide and conquer" way.
I believe Shalmia is here simply stocking the fire of anti-Rothbard sentiment among the Randian group. This imbecilic approach will only serve to (again!) put people into neatly confined groups and leave them vulnerable to be pitted one against the other.
Again, the evidence does not support this. Just what is this "mainstream libertarianism"? Why would it suddenly be the standard against which every libertarian would have to be measured? Who established it?
Does not change the fact that Rothbard was a race-baiter par excellence and that makes him a prime suspect for the newsletters.
In fact, both (and especially Rothbard) were very critical of the politics of race and victimhood played by the elitist left
Rothbard was so critical of this he wrote a piece defending David Duke. So this doesn't exactly help out the situation.
Randians 1 Rothbardians 0
Lol! Rothbard no more defended David Duke than anyone else in the media (everybody!) commenting at the time noted he tapped into a populist vane of class and race resentment. You're an incredible liar without any semblance of conscience, cyto.
Re: Cytotoxic,
Oh linkey-link! Come here, girl!
Linkey-link!
Oh, linkey-link! Where is that link?
You mean this?
You're so phony, C. Read the piece - it is not a pro-Duke essay, it is an anti-Establishment piece.
It's even more blindingly batshit crazy than I remember. It goes to show that Rothbard valued 'anti-establishment' more than 'anti-racist'.
Re: Cytotoxic,
You have to remember, C, that there were bonafide racist assholes and ex-KKK members in Congress and the Senate, and nobody back then was calling them out as these played the game and were obedient to the Establishment's bugle call. Instead, Duke was conducting his campaign with a message of small government and voila! suddenly he's this unrepentant ex-KKK and monster, despite of his assurances he had found God and Christ and the whole shebang.
What Rothbard was pointing out is the sheer hypocrisy of the system. He's not condoning Duke's past - unless you can point out to a single passage I may have missed.
All in all, it's a bad idea to use somebody with a bad racist-connected past as your standard bearer, as Rothbard is doing with Duke...although I could be talking about somebody else I guess.
All in all, it's a bad idea to use somebody with a bad racist-connected past as your standard bearer
Seemed to work okay for the Dems in the last presidential election.
Shouldn't this have been an obvious spoof post about left-wing media or something?
Wait, I got my meta all up in my meta. I'm not sure whose side I'm on.
Best article yet written here (that I've read) on the newsletter issue.
RP is basically toast. This is bad, but having this come out during the nomination is literally hundreds of times less damaging to libertarianism than the alternative, which is to have it come out after the (unlikely) event that RP wins the nom. That would've played into the hands of David Frum and every other establishmentarian pundit in a way they could not even hope for. It would have sent political libertarianism back decades.
OMG, Cyto, your sides' fucking wardrums got Obama elected in the first place! Paul and the Teaparty are the only reason the right wing has had any semblance of a comeback for you Frummers to ride coattail on.
I deride Frum, and I am a Frummer. I make a point, and you make some other points that I actually agree with and you don't even use to Fisk my points.
Love the Paul, hate the Paultard.
I derided you as a Frummer because you used him as an example of someone we have to answer to above. To which, no we do not.
I never said you have to answer to him. I think he's an asshole and the empowerment of his kind of thinking was one of the dangers I was pointing out.
That would've played into the hands of David Frum and every other establishmentarian pundit in a way they could not even hope for. It would have sent political libertarianism back decades.
That's how that came across to me, but you strongly persist in stating that is not what you intended, I believe you. Frummer crossed the line then.
Reason also said Ron Paul stormed out of a CNN interview, so why should I pay attention to them?
More like "Paul moseyed out of the CNN interview".
"Ambled" works, too.
Stormy, how does it work?
The elite who control media would like this sort of smear campaign nonsense to cause us "divide-so-they-can-conquer. Dont buy it. Ron Paul is not a Racist, and he is fighting for all of us against the most powerful tyranny the world has ever known.....and many people still don't realize it. If you want to find a racist, look elsewhere.
THIS IS FROM THE SO CALLED RACIST NEWSLETTERS, the same ones the media is snipping ends of comments to make them look inflammatory:
" Last year hundreds of Americans died
'liberating ' Kuwait, and now we are getting more information about what they died for Foreign embassies in Kuwait are crowded with slaves--yes, slaves--who used wartime confusion to escape from their rich Kuwaiti masters.
The British government documented more than 1,000 cases of Filipino, Bangladeshis, and West Africans held in bondage by the ruling Kuwaiti tribe.
"Note the irony of Black Americans risking their live to return Kuwaiti slave owners to power."
I think Ron Paul should apologize to the those who burned, beat and robbed during the L.A. riots in the name of racism.
So unless Paul joins YOUR side in this internecine war, you'll continue to keep picking at this.
Tom Woods got it right though:
- nobody believes he wrote this.
- the REAL context for these remarks is the LA race riots (Rodney King)
- these comments pale in comparison to contemporary conversion like what Robin Williams joked about on the the Johnny Carson show.
It's telling that all these articles attack him for racism but don't quote the racist statements. One article that actually did quote had a statement called Barbara Jordan a moron. That's racist? C'mon we know a smear when we see it - including Reason.
BTW, as you may have noticed, Ron Paul doesn't just appeal to conservatives. Should we disown him because Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich and Stormfront agree with him and want an honest man? Or should we stand back in amazement that people we have profound disagreements with us and with each other can unite around an honest man who speaks truth to power about corruption in DC, endless wars and violations of our liberties.
"Ron Paul didn't write these newsletters"
Yes, you said so yourself.
So what happened is not all the conspiracy-theory non-sense that you posit, but, rather, the explanation is simple: Ron Paul did not write the letters; however, he did fail to closely monitor the thousands of pages that were written in his name. That happened two decades ago.
So that's what all this fuss really boils down to? As far as the picture goes, Ron Paul has thousands of pictures taken of himself with people he doesn't even know. You or I could go and have our picture taken with RP and then turn around and make nasty statement in writing; does that then make RP the bad guy? No of course not.
Message to the presstitutes:
Is that the best 20yr old dirt that you can dig up on RP? Because if that's the best you got, then..................Ron Paul 2012 Baby!!!!!
I`ve painstakingly read through all these responses until i got to yours Lugwig. BANG ON!! If this is all they can come up with.... were in excellent shape. You notice how the author of this shit panders to the Paulites and the voters sitting on the fence. Then you read the comments left by the so called Ron Paul supporters (YEAH RIGHT) How they insist he must confront this issue head on or were finished.......BEAT IT CRONIES....
The article is strategic and the responses well timed and placed but... don't be disillusioned.......this is a hit piece to the very highest degree. Funded, and backed by people who are continually receiving strong oder's of fesses from between there legs.
RON PAUL 2012
Odors. Feces. Spelling - how does that work?
Since Ron Paul isn't supposed to be a hard right winger, whatever National Review did in the 1950's doesn't help his cause. Many Democrats were vile racists at that time.
I'm afraid the major points raised by this article stands. Paul does have to elaborate on his apologies and / or explanation. You can't lend your name to a publication that released racist drivel and expect your foes and fans alike to not raise concerns. Why didn't he return contributions made by racists? Why did you pose with them for a picture?
The media let Obama off the hook when he ran, and look what happened. Paul is a better candidate, but we play by a different standards.
It's the warhawks at the National Review that got this ball rolling, so to point out they are using the race card with brazen cynicism is hardly an aside to the point.
I read NRO all the time. They disagree with his foreign policy and isolationist stance. It's the left that made the most noise out of the newsletters.
No, they did not. That is not the time line of the narative. Last Monday, hits by Hannity, Limbaugh, Lowry at National Review, and some douche at the American Spectator started pouring in. CNN with a reporter with close connections to the neocon circle only took up the issue after the shit storm created by the usual suspects. It makes sense for the media to play it that way. If they dug in too soon, Paul's support strengthens because of popular loathing of the MSM. It's a calculated risk partnering with sometime enemies on the right, but still the one that most likely produces the results they mutually want. Tanking of the anti-warfare state candidate.
Re: xm,
What else do you want him to do? Understand ONE thing: Apologizing for some construed "racism" he didn't even express would be the end of him as it has been the end for many a conservative candidate or celebrity - remember Don Imus? Only liberals can be outright racists and get away with it, XM. Shalmia wants Ron Paul out of the picture, that's all.
He should never apologize. He should denounce, by name, the racist piece of shit that wrote these letters.
And he would not have a shred of proof if he did. If the person in question (assuming it wasn't Rothbard) denied Paul's claim, then what? What would naming them accomplish then? And if it was Rothbard, he's dead so people would quickly just say that Paul was naming him in order to deflect blame. Again, nothing accomplished. It's pretty clear from the fact that the persons responsible have not come forward (assuming they even remember that they wrote the piece) that they aren't exactly rushing to claim ownership.
Well, lets start with Harry Reid first, shall we? When Harry apologizes then perhaps Paul should apologize. But only after Harry does it first.
" Obama's lighter skin color and lack of street, ghetto dialect should prove helpful for him to win the Presidency"- Senator Harry Reid.
Steven Horwitz?
Everybody is claiming the "libertarian" mantle these days!
I'm going back to anarchist.
You guys have made a pretty penny off this story. I cant wait till the day the neocons and establishment have used you all up against Paul, and you go back to being a third rate website.
Blah Blah Blah. Ron Paul is not racist. The leader of the texas NAACP has known Paul for over 20 years and is of color and even says he is in no way shape or form racist. And he even says Paul does more for the black community by wanting to end the war on drugs, and a failed foreign policy than any other candidate/politician. Another thing, most people from the Mises institute are Jewish. So how can they be holacaust deniers oranti-semites? Because they believe in self reliance and self determenation and think the US should butt out of Isreali affaires, that makes them anti-semite? Get real. And in 1980 when Isreal bombed Iraq Paul was the only congressmen to stand up for them while everone else was busy condmning them.
BREAKING: Even More Racially Charged Writings by Ron Paul Uncovered
http://www.dailypaul.com/19571.....-uncovered
Read this and watch the videos. http://truthvsempire.blogspot......-over.html
The newletters guarantee that he will sweep the south, beginning with South Carolina. Thanks! Paul will be president. Get used to it.
Please put your money where your mouth is. Contact the webmaster for my email address and let's put together a wager. I will bet you ANY amount of money up to my entire life savings that Ron Paul will not be President of the United States in 2012. Playtime's over, Neil.
Internet tug gai is here! Internet tuf gai! Shit gonna get real up in here, y'all. Internet tuf gai is here!
Who wants some!
Pussies.
Already a place you can make these bets.
Ron Paul Nominee
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Ron Paul President
http://www.intrade.com/v4/mark.....tId=743483
I agree with the analysis, but not the advice. If Paul implicates his ideological fellow-travelers, it would spell disaster for libertarians. Paul is the only libertarian most people know of -- they're not going to make fine distinctions between Rothbardian paleolibertarians and Reasonoid cosmo-libertarians. Lots of people will just say "I see, that liberty stuff is all just a cover for racism." The best Paul can do for the movement is to fall on his sword and drop out when the heat gets too intense. He can maintain that he disagrees with everything attributed to him, but that he can't escape moral culpability and he can't let his message of liberty become associated with some of the most anti-libertarian statements imaginable. If Paul does this, the scrutiny ends and we live to fight another day.
Shikha, Not sure why someone whom has won the Bastiat Prize in 2009 would be attacking Ron Paul as his views strongly parallel those of Bastiat! Not a racist view point in any way. In fact Bastiat pointed out in 1850 the weak point of the American Constitution and government was the fact of slavery and tariffs. Other than that he liked the constitution!
Now moving forward let's get Ron Paul elected and have a chance at liberty.
Peace to all on Christmas.
The media should stop trashing Ron Paul and start reporting some facts. I'd also like to point out that if a racist, bigot, terrorist etc. supports a candidate that in no way implys the candidate is anyone of those things.
For anyone not paying attention to late-breaking developments:
The failure of newt Gingrich and Rick Perry to reach the low bar of qualifying for the Virginia GOP primary ballot has doomed their national campaigns. Even there supporters mutter as much when not ranting about a "Mormon conspiracy".
This is now down to a two-man race between Mitt "Establishment RINO" Romney and Ron "not Mitt Romney" Paul for the GOP nomination. The GOP electorate have made their choice clear in every single poll. They chose "Not Mitt Romney" at 70-80% over Mittens. Paul has a plausible path to the nomination...and the Presidency.
This newsletter shit is irrelevant excepting the minor part it will play in the overall narrative of REPUBLICAN RON PAUL IS RACIST!
Democrats are useless, can't govern and hate the middle class, so holding my nose, because the Republicans are horrible, who should I vote for? Which Republican does the Republican establishment hate the most? Well, the choice is obvious then.
Naming names would only add fuel to the fire. He's answered it. Move on.
What's more racist, publishing a newsletter that made racist comments or dropped bombs on brown people at every opportunity and being proud of it and wanting more? Seems everyone BUT Ron Paul is a racist.
Re: Kent,
But remember, Kent: Those are "humanitarian" wars, so those that espouse them cannot be racist! You see how that works???
lets talk racism...take a good HARD LOOK AT THIS....and what the "Foreign Policy" of the "Untied States" is ALL ABOUT.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....z1hKmzHxsv
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
No. Of course they support someone who would protect their first amendment rights to voice their racist views. I'm quite sure heroin addicts also support Ron Paul's stance on legalizing drugs, does that mean Ron Paul supports heroin use? Of course not... But no doubt that will be the memo sent out by the MSM to your average retarded voter.
The recently posted 1995 CSPAN interview shows someone who looks like Ron Paul saying "I also put out a political type of business investment newsletter?"
If one reviews the clip and looks very closely it is clear by the movement of the lips of the Ron Paul "body double" that this has been computer generated. Similar to the TV commercials that want us to believe that babies are speaking adult English. Or that cats and dogs can sing Christmas Carols.
Just because Ron Paul's name and phone number are on these mythical dredged up documents does not mean that Ron Love Paul had anything to do with them at all.
GET OFF HIS CASE!!!
Ron Paul's words. Out of context. Then (1995) and NOW (2011)
????
"I also put out a political type of business investment newsletter that sort of covered all these areas. I DIDN'T WRITE THEM?it covered ? what was going on in Washington,..financial events,..some of the monetary events. ?I had been?interested in monetary policy,..on the banking committee, and?interested in,..that subject, that this newsletter dealt with it. I DIDN'T READ THEM AT THE TIME?This had to do with the value of the dollar, the pros and cons of the gold standard, and of course the disadvantages of all the high taxes and spending that our government seems to continue to do?AND I DISAVOW THEM."
Re: Ernie PaulloveBot,
It was originally a video of your mom taking requests for blowjobs.
My mom died almost three years ago. I will be visiting her grave later today.
I'll be sure to pass on your Christmas Greetings.
My kindest regards. Tell her you're posting incredibly idiotic things on blogs, hoping someone will be stupid enough to say "Really! I knew it!"
"Steve Horwitz offers some context over at Bleeding Heart."
Anyone with an IQ one step above plant life stopped reading right there. Shikha Dalmia is obviously brain dead. Let the revolution continue. RON PAUL 2012
Re: Koby,
Debunk the allegations, but please do not resort to insulting the author.
fuck this author.
Why not? She's a public person. If she wanted privacy she should have kept her thoughts to herself. Same goes for any of the people doing their utmost to rip Ron Paul down.
Ole Spic sez: "Debunk the allegations, but please do not resort to insulting the author."
Go after the author's mother. It shows a lot of class!
If George Foreman lent his name to endorse an electric grill (hypothetically, of course), and each grill came with a 15 page manual which was rewritten every month for 20 years, and out of those 3600 pages, 4 or 5 passages of racist text were found and repeated ad nauseum in the media to try to make it look ubiquitous, does that wipe out his illustrious 30 year boxing career? He DID collect a paycheck on the sales, after all...and his signature was on it. Or does his boxing career speak for itself?
And Merry Christmas to the members of my favorite internet forum.
Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?
This is really terrible reasoning, and a classic example of guilt by association fallacy.
There are myriad cases of objectionable groups and individuals ardently supporting something good.
We live in a world full of political ideaologies, and those politics have to be pushed by men with bold and somtimes fringe ideas. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Shikha Dalmia? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep over these newsletters, and you curse the paleolibertarians. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That the newsletters, while tragically racist, probably informed people of a better political ideology. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, is responsible for creating many new libertarians. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at cosmotarian cocktail parties, you want me doing what I do, you need me doing what I do. We use words like freedom and liberty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to those who rise and sleep under the blanket of the very libertarian movement that I provided, and then question the manner in which I provided it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you run for office and get on a ballot. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
This article makes no sense; I am trying to understand the point you are making but it is so nebula of messages I am not able to understand other than your title. It is not necessary for you to explain what Ron Paul should do (though you didn't do that) He has already done what He has. Everything Ron Paul has said is true. That is the point to be made here.
BTW, she mentions the CNN Gloria Borger interview. Did she see the unedited version? Paul did NOT storm off, and he did answer her questions fully. I too had trouble with Paul's response till I saw the full interview.
Re: Kent,
It even went international
Reason made a big mistake of repeating the lie that Ron had stormed out from that interview.
Yeah. That WAS way over the top. Awaiting a retraction.
Was it for Obama?
Please - you're not talking to children here.
"After all, most Paul watchers in MSM knew about the existence of these statements from the last time around. Yet it seems no one wanted to bring them up again until Paul gained so much traction that ignoring them would have been a serious dereliction of duty." -S.D.
Well, that's one way to spin it. Actually it seems perfectly timed as a carefully calculated attack on a candidate who is not the "chosen one" the elites have determined will next occupy the White House. Dereliction of duty, my ass!
Know who else Ron Paul courted? Minorities.
Why is everyone forgetting the 2007 debate hosted by Tavis Smiley that was basically the "minority debate." Ron Paul was one of the few that attended it. Romney, McCain, and Giuliani all had scheduling conflicts.
Link here.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/p.....avis_N.htm
Good memory. They couldn't show up for a Q&A with gentlemanly Tavis Smiley? Makes you wonder the level of grooming the MSM does for those establishmentarian candidates that Smiley would have been considered too much heavy lifting. Facials, manicures and pedicures come in the package deal, too?
Here is what Ron Paul should say:
"The American people will no longer tolerate the lies of the Main Stream Media. They have been lied to long enough, and have had enough of it. Based on my 30 year record as an US Representative, i have published thousands of articles and given many hundred speeches. I challenge the Media to find one single instance where my words and actions were in agreement with the racist remarks I am supposedly responsible for in the newsletters which were released under my name, but not written by me. If you can find it, i will drop out of the race for President of the United States."
But what does the SPLC think?
While the newsletters may in the end hurt Paul, thou dost protest too much when you say it will sink the libertarian upswell. It's makes you just as guilty as Paul in thinking you have to appeal to people in other ways than just promoting freedom and justice.
Strategically it might benefit Paul to come out with a more thorough explanation of the newsletters but all this article is is another libertarian bandwringing exercise worrying that the movements portrayal has to be squeaky clean in order to achieve relevance. I say the reason it has a hieved relevance is the very obvious dirt that the democrat and republican parties are demonstrating on a daily basis. There are no clean politicians but what the libertarians are promoting is a restraint against the political overreach. There is no way to con people into this belief. They have to decide whether it's the right approach or not. Paul is a messenger, not the message.
The real problem is that a majority of libertarians believe libertarianism is not a social justice philosophy. Further, they are absolutely against State enforced social justice is seen as immoral.
This is why liberaltarianism was doomed. Social justice issues like egalitarianism, racism, and feminism, where state action can improve conditions, are not justifiable uses of violence. When libertarians point this out, we expose to liberals that Politics is not a one-sided fight, that even good issues have draw backs.
To quote Rothbard himself from the linked to paper:
"Too many libertarians also join liberals in using the charge of racism to bash non-conformists. It may be scientifically false to believe, for example, that Asians are more intelligent than whties, but can it really be immoral? From a libertarian perspective, the only immorality would be to seek State recognition of this belief, whether correct or incorrect."
Those words could have been written today, or in 1964. The fact is, libertarians in this party (if I may call it that) *do not view the more progressive wing of this party as genuine in their disgust here*. We know what your philosophy demands! The fact is, it is a valid criticism to call out the Cato Institute for say, criticizing Rand Paul on his stance against the Civil Rights act, all while hosting events and putting out papers calling for a repeal of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. The only difference there is that the second one is far less revered as a cornerstone of the modern liberal movement, and is far more constitutional. Their disgust is because they care too much about what other people think of them, and that they're sick of having to explain for the 99th time that yes, "There's no such thing as a Society" means "There is no such thing as justifiable use of violence to enforce social issues." Better to hide it all under the rug and hope you don't have to deal with it.
all this article is is another libertarian bandwringing exercise worrying that the movements portrayal has to be squeaky clean in order to achieve relevance.
Dude, without the concerned soccer mom vote, libertarianism is nothing.
NOTHING, I tells ya!
Those bitches can vote Mittens!
"Yet it seems no one wanted to bring them up again until Paul gained so much traction that ignoring them would have been a serious dereliction of duty. "
I google Ron Paul every single day and have for the last 6 months. The media ignoring this issue had nothing to do with "a serious dereliction of duty" as you put it. Over the weekend of the 18th, Paul raised over $4m, he jumped from #2 to #1 in Iowa and #3 to #2 in New Hampshire.
The following Monday when I did my usual Ron Paul google search, I saw NOTHING about the above three events and over a dozen new articles about these newsletters. Dozens of media outlets didn't suddenly realize they had a duty to perform... all on the same day (while simultaneously ignoring their duty to report the actual news of his poll numbers and fund raising).
During Ron Paul's other money bombs the google showed numerous articles about the size of his fundraising the day after but this time, the biggest time of them all and I didn't see a single headline on google about the $4m+.
Further, watch the full CNN interview rather than the edited hackjob. Then read up on her husband and connection to Gingrich. Then make up your own mind.
Simple,Just tell the truth! The haters will hate, the lovers will love and the voters will know the facts. Let the chips fall where they may.
You must be high on Christmas Cookies and Egg Nog.
This is a political campaign for President of the USA. It is a Culture War.
As we all know, the first casualty in war is the truth!
"When the Jeremiah Wright scandal broke, Obama had grown a layer of Teflon. No one was willing to buy that the man who was loftily declaring that "there is no white America, there is no black America, there is only the United States of America""
Maybe the difference is that Paul has decades of voting record, speeches and associations that flat out contradict any accusations of character flaws. Obama had an incredibly short record of not voting on bills and he was just taken at his word - because he said them so nicely...
Maybe Megan McCardle will come along later and tell us how Paul's anti- Federal Reserve sentiments "prove" him to be a racist, because if interest rates rise government programs will be cut.
She'll save that for her The Atlantic column.
Yup, I saw The Daily Beast took Reason's headline and ran with it. Hey Reason, CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION!
Drink?
Wow... almost 150 comments, and not one "RON PUAL IS TEH RASIST! I'M NEVER POSTING HERE AGAIN!" screed from Max.
It's a Festivus miracle.
Bonus: 160 posts, and Tony has yet to blather about how feral children are going to be forced to eat gay black grandmothers if we don't raise taxes on the rich by five cents on the dollar.
Indeed, a miracle.
But I tempt fate by even mentioning this...
Actually it's three cents on the dollar.
4.6, isn't it?
No, 5 cents in taxes on billionaires means the end to individual liberty forever.
A Very Kochtopus Christmas, brought to you by Shikha Dalmia (now that our fundraiser is over with)
When people say either that Ron Paul should "name names" or the author should "step forward," they are just looking to milk this incredibly hackneyed "scandal" ever more.
I mean, it's reasonably obvious Ron Paul did not write the offending newsletters and, let's face it, it's not as though the passages were "crimes" (well, OK they are Thoughtcrimes) that we need to catch a perpetrator for.
In the same vein, I was never a Barack Obama fan, but even so I knew those babbling about the preacher scandal were complete partisan hack morons perpetrating a blatantly obvious political smear tactic: get the candidate publicly repudiate a friend/associate for being "unclean."
You hit the nail on the head by mentioning Koch. Remember how Reason slavishly came to the aid of the Koch bros when they were being attacked in some newspaper a few months back? Same thing here. Kochs say jump, Reason says, HOW HIGH?
The Koch brothers invented cancer!
Millions of years ago, the first Koch sprang forth from the primordial ooze and invented Death Itself.
But you do remember that right? When the Reason staff jumped to attention to defend their sugar daddy when some newspaper someplace questioned just how nice the Kochs were?
The Kochs created and continue to run the Reason Foundation. It's no secret.
http://reason.org/about/faq/
I don't know, man. Are you willing to give Obama a pass for his strong association with Bill Ayers? I'm not.
Everybody associates themselves with like-minded folks. And the fact that Obama sat in front of Wright week after week as he preached hate tells me a lot about Obama's character. He could have attended hundreds of churches in Chicago. He chose to sit in the pew while his preacher spewed racist filth. An honorable man would have walked out and never been forced to face the questions.
Paul tried to do that, but the media won't let him. He's now going to have to take the next step and disavow the man who wrote this. It will cut the media's legs out from under them, and that's what we need right now.
I have some news for you. Obama was given a pass over Bill Ayers. Nobody cared about your thoughts and just moved on. Obama actually became president you know.
If you recall, he disassociated himself from Ayers (by saying they weren't really closely linked). The media gave him a pass and failed to follow up on the claims.
Interesting. Very much like Ron Paul DISAVOWING the newsletters. But let's be frank, you wont't be happy unless he drops out. Can't allow any speedbumps on Mitt Romney's road to the nomination, can we?
Oh, good lord no. I'm a huge Paul fan and give regularly to his campaign. I want to see him do whatever it (ethically) takes for him to win the Presidency. I just think this is what it will take to marginalize a hostile media.*
*and all he needs to do to accomplish this is give someone credit for their work.
If you're a fan, Paul caving to the media will destroy his campaign.
His hardcore supporters don't want him caving. They don't want him naming names, and they want him to force the media to accept his position.
If Paul caves, all of your donations will be for naught.
By "caving," you mean simply crediting someone for their work, right? I fail to see how that is "caving."
And at some point, you have to play the game. Paul has been a morally upstanding man his entire life. Why should he suffer the slings and arrows for someone else's words this late in the game when full disclosure would take away the "racist" ammunition.
He does not know who wrote those comments.
You basically call him a liar, without being able to back up that assumption, and say he should admit that he has lied. Even if he had lied (and I am 100% convinced that he did not), admitting it would not help his campaign, as you claim, but probably destroy it.
Has he definitively come out and said he doesn't know? In every interview I've seen, he always says it was 20 years ago and he didn't read them. If I am wrong on this, please point me to an interview where he says, "I do not know who wrote the newsletters."
Also, did he put any effort into finding out so he could be prepared for the inevitable onslaught he fucking had to expect was coming? And if he didn't see it coming, he's either politically naive or he wasn't expecting to do this well.
I'd like to see some video evidence of Obama in attendance even though he was a member. I would bet he only showed up for the paid for endorsements. Money changes hands, local politician stands up for a few minutes of adulation as the preacher tells the audience what they should be thinking in the most glowing terms. It is likely the oldest form of graft in the Republic.
I'll have to take Obama's word for it when he said he attended Reverend Wright's services on a weekly basis.
Mom, is that you again?
Seriously, one of the best things about Ron Paul is his willingness to form open and productive alliances with people he might vehemently disagree with on unrelated issues. Indeed, this is what all politicians do, though usually less openly and toward ends that compromise their stated values (if they really have any). If he starts publicly "outing" and disavowing people for tertiary opinions - demanding they be "pure" - he can kiss that ability to successfully form alliances goodbye.
And as far as the newsletters go, I'd be more concerned if there was something expressed that contradicted his philosophy of government. But even then, Ron Paul is hardly inscrutable in his political beliefs so it's not as if we need to rely on subtle associations to learn his philosophy.
Solution! If racism bothers you so much then VOTE FOR OBAMA to cleanse your troubled soul.
Beats voting for any of those racist honkies on the rigbt-of-center!
We're ashamed to be white. We suck.
Preach it, brother!
I think the constant harping by FOX News and others that Ron Paul has no chance of "Winning the GOP" may back fire on them. I personally have become very irritated by this blatant manipulation of thought and very mistrustful of the mouth pieces that serve the Corporate Media. My natural response to this obvert manipulation of the masses is to do the opposite of what they say. I can't speak for others, but seeing all this happen time and again just makes me not want to vote for any Republicrats. If Ron Paul doesn't win the Republican primary, I don't think I'm going to vote for another Republican in his place. That doesn't I'm voting for Obama either. I'll still vote Ron Paul in the General Election. I don't mean if he runs as a third party candidate, I going to vote for him even if he doesn't run. I just vote for him as a write-in. I stop voting the status quo in 2012. Ron Paul apologized for the racist remarks in the Newsletter over a decade ago! How many times is required of him to do so? I have not seen any credible documented accounts of Paul speaking and acting in a racist manner in his entire public career. I'm inclined to believe by his actions and his record that he is not promoting racism in the 21st century.
You're a fucking moron
Re: Maximoron,
Kettle, kettle
You share my mettle.
if we don't raise taxes on the rich by five cents on the dollar.
You are so behind the times; haven't you heard, the country needs a hard salary cap at 36 (neither 35, nor 37, but verily that cap shall be 36) times median income. That will show those pestilential moneygrubbing one-thousandth-of-one-percenters what's what.
Big Rock Candy Mountain, here we come!
Dalmia assumes that Ron Paul is not really a closet racist, but all his associations strongly suggest he is. It would be pretty hard for the old codger to pull off the mea culpa speech if in fact he is not feeling any culpa.
Oh, there you are, you stupid one-note bastard.
Still masturbating outside Ron Paul's bedroom window?
Re: Maximoron,
Which, and suggest to whom? You? You're the pet yorkie! Nobody listens to you anyway.
Max the yip-yap! Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap!
Oh yes this article I'm sure is 100% accurate, and I will change my support for Ron Paul immediately.....just show me ONE WORD out of his mouth that even HINTS of racism....show me ONE PERSON who is willing to say they have hard something REMOTELY racist come out of his mouth....then I for sure will change my support!
I will be patiently waiting....
Listen, moron, all those racist statements that appeared in the newsletters that were published under his name and from which he richly profitted are clear evidence that he is a fucking racist. The fact that he is not currently openly spewing racist rhetoric means he isn't an idiot, idiot. You might want to have someone explain this to you in simpler language.
You're really unhealthily obsessed with this, Max. Do you even bother to bathe?
Let me get this straight. You are upset that "his" language in the newsltters doesn't now match his current rhetoric. That makes him an idiot.
Re: Maximoron,
"Richly profited"?
Ah, pet yorkie. Not even in finance can you shine.
You should not believe everything the MSM say, like the "million dollar" he allegedly got from his newsletters. He did not. He earned his living as an obgyn at that time, which also explains why he could not pay close attention to the newsletter operation.
This article is the reason why I will never visit this discreaditednsite again.
Don't forget to cancel your subscription. Hit them where it hurts. Force the Kochs to put up more money to keep this sinking ship afloat.
good riddance
Max, you at least once avowed to never post here again.
Why do you continue to lie?
I have been saying it would be ethical for Paul to name the writer here, and I've been given shit for doing so.
Question(s) for those calling me out: why is it unethical to tell the whole truth? Why is it unethical to give someone credit for their work?
In the context of the times and of the conservative movement of the time the newsletters were only slightly more outrageous than National Review. Outing a ghost writer to judge them by today's mores would be unethical and wrong.
How so? All he's doing is giving credit where it is due. And speaking to "in the context of the times...": Moral is moral, and Paul should be able to be judged on his actions as opposed to what someone else wrote 20+ years ago.*
*Oh, and Paul has maintained moral consistency. Why should he not name who wrote something that was morally expedient at the time?
How many times does Paul have to say it before people like you understand:
He does not know the writer of those comments!
Sloop, It's unethical for two reasons: 1. Because the letters went out under his name, he was ultimately responsible. No matter who wrote them. 2. Throwing someone under the bus for political gain is one of the most unethical things you can do. Especially if he does so and doesn't gain him a damn thing and Romney sails to the nomination anyways.
At the end of the day naming names would be a shameless political ploy that one would expect from mitten or titties or obama.
Isn't there a saying about not getting into a mud fight with pigs because you both get dirty and the pig likes it? What sets Paul apart from so many is his principled refusal to acquiesce to the maintream, even on his most controversial stances. Naming names (assuming he knows the names), only gets him dirty and would make me lose respect for him.
This is the ultimate problem with Cosmotarians. They so quickly throw away their principles in the name of being taken seriously. Why the fuck do they want to be taken seriously by a system that they claim to hate? Stop trying to appeal to the system, instead throw your message out there and let it speak for itself. Stop worrying, it is one fucking powerful message and it is gaining traction each day.
Two words: cocktail parties.
I just have to disagree, Banjos. (Merry Christmas, by the way. I missed out on the music last night 🙁 ) I think by telling the whole truth, Paul can focus on the way he has lived his life as opposed to defending himself because of the words someone else wrote. I'll ask again: why is telling the whole truth unethical?
Re: sloopyinca,
He may actually not know, sloopy.
You seem to assume that Paul lies when he says that he doesn't know the author of the racist comments. What makes you think so? I find it perfectly plausible.
He was not involved closely with the management of the newsletter operation. And he was made aware of those comments only 10 years later.
If in fact he doesn't know, then OK. I just can't for the life of me believe that he can't or didn't find out.
Personally, I think he's just protecting an old associate from the media. (And I have no evidence to substantiate this.)
re: "They [assuming he means Reason] so quickly throw away their principles in the name of being taken seriously.""
OK, reconcile this =
RP votes YES for national recognition of MLK day, December 1979... (HR5461)
it fails to pass the senate.
In 1983, he votes NO for the same thing. (HR3706)
It passes.
He says this in Feb 1990 in his newsletter=
http://www.tnr.com/sites/defau.....ry1990.pdf
"Boy, it sure burns me to have a national holiday for Martin Luther King. I voted against this outrage time and time again as a Congressman*. What an infamy that Ronald Reagan approved it! We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day
[*noting outright lie]
Since then, he has gone out of his way (some might say he protest too much) to express his 'longstanding admiration' of ML King.
Yes, I'm aware that he's 'disavowed' the above lines....
But his flipflopping on the vote itself doesn't exactly reflect a particularly hard adherence to *principle*. Nor does his allowance of some ghostwriter to present opinions under his name that he claims now are outright opposed to his own - but also make bald misstatements of *fact*. It is notable how he currently cites his 1979 *yes* vote now as proof of his 'longstanding' view....despite reversing himself 4 years later.
I could care less, ultimately, and dont think it really says anything about 'racism' as much as his flexibility with facts. But I wouldnt go around pretending the man is some kind of 'anti-politician' who has never changed his tune to adapt to changes in the political landscape.
If I remember the instances correctly, it's cause the second bill changed the date and made it a federal work holiday...but I could be totally mistaken.
An incredible assertion considering the fact that the name of the institution - the Ludwig Von Mises Institute - is named after a Jewish immigrant who escaped Nazi Germany.
Steve Horwitz clearly does not grasp the issue he's talking about or even simple LOGIC. I am still scratching my head trying to understand why Shalmia would bother to quote this guy.
I've visited the Mises website many times since I discovered it in 2002 while taking my Masters courses. I have visited the forum, read everything I could by Callahan, Frum, Murphy, Rothbard and, obviously, Mises. I have yet to find A SINGLE INSTANCE that would lead me to believe that the Mises Institute harbors Holocaust deniers or anti-semites.
Strangely enough, this was a charge lobbed by David Horowitz back in 2007 on the Glenn Beck show (when it was on CNN.) There's no relation between Steve and David; it is just curious that the same exact charge was made by a very well-known neo-con.
Worth mentioning is the wonderful Mises.org virtual library where people can download all sorts of ebooks FOR FREE. But I'm sure that's just a carrot to entice people into racism or something.
http://holocaustcontroversies......caust.html
*yawn*
Re: Maximoron,
You see, if you want to be taken seriously, you should link to the actual source instead of some other source that engages in innuendo. You don't want to look like a liar and a cheat, would you, pet yorkie?
"Arf! Arf!"
I thought so.
^^This.^^
OM points out something salient to the discussion. Why would Ms. Dalmia even quote Horwitz, who is obviously nothing but a bomb-thrower, without discrediting him immediately afterward?
Of course, she's the one who wrote all those weekend gossip pieces on Michael Moore earlier this fall that created so much weekend entertainment for us. I guess it's style over substance for her.
Re:Sloopyinca,
Maybe she was building some "plausible deniability" before she started her hatchet job Ron:
"Hey, I am an equal opportunity muckraker! You see? I took on Moore! See? See?"
I remember those Moore pieces well. They were hatchet jobs basically decrying the man spending his own money the way he saw fit. and lest we forget this piece of shit she wrote about Madonna.
Maybe I should spend less time commenting on a story written by somebody I have very little respect for. But hey, it's a chance to say Merry Christmas to everybody at H&R. and it's also a chance to prepare you all for Goldwater's inevitable gloating that will come tomorrow since he won the J sub D Memorial Fantasy Football League.
It's painfully obvious what is going on here. Anyone who has followed the libertarian movement, with a sharp eye, for any period of time, will understand immediately.
This is yet another attempt by the Koch-backed beltway (big L) Libertarian crowd to try and dilute the philosophical groundings of libertarianism. You'll note how many of the bloggers/writers on this site have strong ties to the Kochtopus/Neocon/Establishment order.
The author of this post, for example, has written several times for the National Review, a publication which has distributed numerous racist articles over the years (especially from Bill Buckley) and has never recanted.
Gillespie, Horwitz, and the rest of the Cato Institute nursery, are all aiming to co-opt libertarianism to the Establishment ideal and do away with with its philosophical underpinnings. Horwitz, for example, had the gall to suggest that it was time to put the "liberal" back into libertarianism. Only minions of the big-L Libertarian crew would ever suggest such a thing is remotely compatible with libertarianism. The name itself was a play on 'liberty'. Modern-day liberalism is a noxious gas that attacks morality and tries to replace it with the 'Government-as-family' paradigm.
It's not all that dissimilar to what happened with the Tea Party movement being co-opted by the Neocon establishment. Although, the subterfuge is far better cloaked from the undiscerning eye.
It's funny to think how all these libertarian rugged atomistic individualists here are nothing more than kept men who without their kindly big moneyed benefactor would probably be begging in the street.
Yes.... yes.... and I'm sure THE TRILATERAL COMMISSION IS BEHIND ALL OF IT!!!
http://web.archive.org/web/200.....2_86_1.pdf
Were the Joos involved too? Why not include the Illuminati? Fuck I hate Paultards.
It's been a while since you have given me a good pluck. We're going out in public sometime soon, right? We're not? Awe, fuck it, then! You deal with the dandruff build up.
Isn't 'unibrow' the word you're thinking of?
I'm just sitting up here on your ridge line gathering dandruff.
I thought 'lowbrow' was the word.
I think the intellectually-honest Paulista retort should be, "ok, he published some racist shit. Bad move. It doesn't change the fact he's the best candidate available"
All of the indignation, conspiracy-theorizing, deflection, watering down, apologias, etc, are gay. Yes, yes, it's "the kochtopus".... Reason is a tool of the MSM, and is aiming to delegitimize Paul... Blah blah blah. Lame.
I agree that Ron Paul should provide a more coherent answer on this issue. It would be helpful going forward.
However, to not see that this issue is being exploited in an attempt to marginalize the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism by Establishment types (yes, those mainly attached to the Koch Bros in some shape or form), is simply willful ignorance. It's right there in front of you. Just read Horwitz' piece and how he tries to shape the debate going forward. Note how all of the authors on this site are essentially National Review/Cato Institute spokespersons.
However, to not see that this issue is being exploited in an attempt to marginalize the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism by Establishment types (yes, those mainly attached to the Koch Bros in some shape or form), is simply willful ignorance.
And 9/11 was an inside job, right?
This one? Nope. Not even close. Gotta move on.
The racism issue confuses me; At his word, if Paul never read the newsletters, he estimated 'X' to write them. If so, Paul lacked foresight that 'X' was a piece of shit.
Either Paul's not cognoscible, or his sanguinity is a fault
He only had the foresight to see the financial crash and the disaster the Iraq War would be. The more important thing he failed to see is certainly whatever association he made over these newsletters. Serious guys, vote for Obama if it troubles you so much.
A. I don't ever vote
B. The man was a practicing OB; if he was racist, it would have been known in the community.
A newsletter is not a product like a TV, or computer; you have a responsibility to read the first damn issue at least!
I'm curious about the content of the first few; the sample that was sent to him for his name solicitation...the things that exculpate
What happened to rather, and what did you do to her???
Even Hitler, Satan, and Oprah wished people a Merry Christmas
-the gift of a truce is over at Midnight
the gift of a truce is over at Midnight
Can we cuddle 'til then?
I think, regarding contributions from racist orgs, Ron Paul should just say, "Yeah, I'll take your money. And then I'll use it to make a better world for everyone, including the people whom you hate."
But he has already said it - and more than once.
I only have one thing to say:
-Ron Paul 2012!
As for pathetic article itself:" Hey, when you work for Koch, you gotta justify your salary by spoiling Ron Paul's name!
We don't care what you have to say Dalmia and Horowitz. We understand you people couldn't care less about minorities but only use them as a political lightning rod to manipulate the public. If you care so much about minorities why don't you point out that Ron Paul wants to end the racist war on drugs that imprisons mostly blacks or that he wants to end our policy of pre-emptive war that kills millions of brown people. You are totally irrelevant and we're voting for Ron Paul, deal with it. Hypocritical race pimps.
By associatating yourselves so closly with Ron Paul, you stupid libertoid halfwits have forever linked your simple-minded right-wing libertarianism to racism. Nice going.
*yawn*
Seriously, Max, you don't have to type the obvious. All that needs be said is this simple reminder:
To Team Blue, anyone NOT Team Blue is right-wing and, therefore, racist.
Now you can retire from posting here, as you have done at least once, and commit yourself to a life of pawing through Ron Paul's trash bin looking for half-eaten Nazi Burgers.
Piles of shit that publish racist news letters are racist piles of shit. Their supporters racist cock suckers, cock sucker.
Prove the racism.
Come on, you stupid bastard... prove without a shadow of a doubt, that everyone you accuse of being racists, ARE indeed racists.
You should be able to do this easily, being the High-Powered Genius you see yourself to be.
Get crackin', bitch.
Read the newsletters until your lips get sore, you moronic cock sucker.
I read them. Every line. Having met REAL racists, I am unimpressed with the content of the newsletters.
I concur. I've seen some crazy shit on the internet, especially against Mexicans. The "racism" in these newsletters look more like kumbaya moments when compared to the frowsy stuff you can find even today from either side.
Don't tell that to Jamie Kirchick. The newsletters are the "most vile racist" things he's ever seen!!! Delicate little flowers hyperventilating over the bad thoughts of others commenting on events that happened before they were even born.
Then again, I don't buy the "everyone right-of-center is racist" theory, Max, so my bar is set different from yours.
Having met real racists you are now disqualified from ever running for office.
It took a lot out me to not give in to the urge to punch them in the nuts for their disgusting, actual-racist beliefs.
And yet you didn't punch them in the nuts, which means you acquiesced to their vile world view, and can never run for public office.
Well, Bill Clinton had his Fulbright connection...
Please stop playing with the pet yorkie! He tends to soil himself when riled up.
...himself from Fear of Wilderness.
He doesn't have the personal responsibility to live a Non-State lifeway.
He doesn't have the personal responsibility to live a Non-State lifeway.
:Stuffs face with cheeseburgers:
This is a morally superior being
Way too many delicate flowers in this movement.
Yeah, it takes a real man to stand by a racist pile of shit.
*ahem*
Right, real men hyperventilate at hearing that a black kid who steals a wallet is fast. Don't watch the Boston marathon!
Frankenstein doesn't scare me.
Marsupials do, though. Because they're fast.
Right, real men hyperventilate at hearing that a black kid who steals a wallet is fast. Don't watch the Boston marathon!
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, so I'll choose my words carefully. That is one of the most idiotic things I've read.
Mildly hafta disagree, sloop... some black people are, indeed, fast on their feet.
So are some white people. And so are some Asians. And Mexicans.
OK, maybe not the Mexicans, but there are some fast whites and Asians.
OK, maybe not the Asians either, but there are some fast white folks.
Not to repeat myself, but you are far too delicate to watch the Boston marathon.
I've watched the Boston Marathon. I watched every step ahead of me from start to finish in 2009 (3:05).
How did you miss the Kenyans?
How did you miss the Kenyans?
They were way ahead of me. And for what it's worth, the Boston Marathon isn't nearly as fun as Atlanta or the SilverMan Half-Iron in Vegas.
maybe not the Mexicans
Watch it, now!
My Master's thesis (rhetoric) was on Obama's Rev. Wright speech. Prior to Obama's speech, Obama said he didn't think Wright was all that controversial. Then Obama gave the speech and blamed Wright's rantings on race. People forget Obama was forced to give a second race speech because Wright told the National Press Club Obama was lying that he didn't agree with Wright. The differences are far greater than the similarities between the two. Obama put his signature on a possible 1040 Rev. Wright speeches by sitting in the pews. The media knows very little about which it speaks.
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
NO IT ISN'T YOU GODDAMN MOOOOOOOOOOOORONS, BECAUSE STORMFRONT IS A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN GROUP!!!
YOU IGNORAMUSES DON'T GET IT DO YOU? WHAT DO YOU THINK, STORMFRONT IS A LIBERAL SOCIALIST, LONG-HAIRED HIPPY ORGANIZATION?
YOU MAKE ME ANNNNNGRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEYYYYY!
Yes, Stormfront is a bunch of racist assholes. No need to shout.
Take a pill, dude.
Oh, and, hey... some white supremacists ARE socialists.
Do your homework.
Oh, and, hey... some white supremacists ARE socialists.
"Raises hand"
Ron Paul has already addressed the worst part about these newsletters. He has said that this is a case of negligence on his part. I agree. To address whether he is serially negligent let's look at his other affairs. He has had a medical practice, has a huge family and been a Congressman. His medical practice has been very successful (I doubt he has ever been sued), his kids are accomplished in life and no one has ever alleged any malfeasance in his Congressional career. At no other point in his life he has ever been accused of racism. And then there are these newsletters.
Given the totality of circumstances and the law of binding constraints (everyone has 24 hours in a day), I find it inconceivable that he had enough time and energy to peer through everything that was published in the newsletters.
BTW, how did you reach the conclusion that these racist ads were "profitable." This was an investment newsletter for hard-money people and the racist stuff was a sideshow at best. If I were subscribing to the letter and read about this crap, I would have cancelled my subscription. So, it is hard to believe that this is a successful strategy.
Re: DH,
This allegation was first raised by Kirchick and has been repeated by the MSM and Reason with no substantiation. The only way to know if the newsletters were returning a handsome profit for Paul would require going through years of balance sheets and tax returns. Being Paul a savvy investor, he would've incorporated his businesses and operations, which would mean the tax returns would've include several sources of income and not just one. The highly-touted "$1M" income may actually come from several sources and not the newsletters. Repeating this canard only adds to the fire of skepticism against Reason and others.
I can't see him making much - if anything - off printing and mailing hard-copy newsletters. Even with bulk mailing, the cost per letter would have to have been magazine-level pricing, and the subscriber base would have had to have been huge.
How come no one is pointing out that the he made millions off the newsletters theme is marxist bullshit?
The implication is that yeah lots of people said racist shit then, but he made money off of it.
"The government gives them [blacks] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
Wow. I wish Paul had said this because it is spot-on.
Re: sloopyinca,
At LewRockwell, they agree with you.
Must because they're all racist paleos. Nothing to do with being anti-Establishment - nah!
In the entire newsletter controversy, there are two lines of argument being advanced by anti-Paul forces.
The first line addresses the content of the newsletters themselves. The criticisms advanced by people quoting the newsletters are fair criticisms that Paul needs to address.
The type of criticism advanced by this maggot Horwitz, though, and favorably quoted by Dalmia here, are fundamentally dishonest and Shikha should be fucking ashamed to offer them.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who demands that Paul account for speaking before a particular group is slime.
When you have spent 30 years being shut out of every mainstream forum available by apologists for statism, you speak to the audiences that invite you.
I'd speak to the fucking CPUSA about libertarianism if they'd invite me. I'd speak to Amalgamated Rapists Inc. if there was such an organization. Because the point of the exercise is the speech and not the audience.
"Ron Paul goes on the Alex Jones show!" Maybe because Alex Jones let him come on the air and speak when no one else would.
Excellent point.
Great point.
I'd speak to Amalgamated Rapists Inc. if there was such an organization.
There's alway SEIU.
Watch the 8-9 minute interview, seeing how CNN intentionally cuts the video to make it sound like he's impatient and storming out. In truth, it's Gloria's relentless repetition of the same questions. Watch and learn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....LonnC_ZWQ0
Gloria Borger is married to LANCE MORGAN. Lance is the chief communications and crisis strategist of POWELL TATE. Powell Tate is a D.C. firm that represents every part of the very same MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX that Ron Paul wants to reduce!
This is a total conflict of interest! Her husband's firm includes overseeing a coalition to support congressional funding to parts of the U.S. Military! All of these "journalists" seem to be profiting from these wars! They thrive off of the misery of others.
We didn't see anything.
Paul's Newsletters were and are great. He has nothing to apologize. If pointing out the truth about Black racism, Black crime and Black sociopathology is "racist" then racism is a good thing and reflects
Objective Reality as Rand would say.
They were written by Lew Rockwell and he in those days always told the truth.
Homosexuality is a gross perversion of nature, it should be legal but not socially sanctioned.
Ron should tell Reason, CATO and the whole Beltarian Koctopus to stick it up their collective arses.
So you wrote them?
Re: rather,
Don't get your loins all riled up - he's most likely not a librarian.
No, just have four Ph.Ds and two Post-Doctorates.
In other words he's smarter than you or I. And he most likely makes more money too. Not to mention his original post was 4 sentences, which means they are much mores substantial than ours.
Nah. They write themselves.
Exactly. Paul was way ahead of his time.
The imbecilic comments here by cytoxics and other morons read like LaRouche rantings. There ARE strong racial and sexual differences and if you PC Kochsuckers don't like it, tough ! Most of the Paul critics are low double digit IQs.
Max, you are one total retard.
Where do some of these people get off giving advice? What controversy has this milquetoast libertarian Shikha Dalmia ever successfully navigated through?
Great point.
Max|6.24.10 @ 3:29PM
Go suck ron puals dick, morons. You peeple are fucking retarded. I`m done coming to this wingnut sight. this is my last post.
?
Promises, Promises!
?
Christ-fags!
Externalities!
Max, no one will miss you. Good riddance !
For a magazine called reason you'd think they would wish people a merry Christmas!
Thank God! I was getting thirsty.
Merry Christmas Bingo...when is the truce over?
Watch this uncut CNN Gloria Borger interview of Ron Paul:
http://thehill.com/video/campa.....-interview
See how CNN intentionally cuts the video to make it sound like he's impatient and storming out. In truth, it's Gloria's relentless repetition of the same questions. Watch and learn.
Something tells me "economics professor Steve Horwitz" is mostly concerned with not being shunned by his local chapter of the International Brotherhood of Tenured Establishmentarian Pontificators.
You know, serious thinkers; like Bruce Bartlett.
Here's the comment I left on Steve's post:
A homosexual observer has another take: http://takimag.com/article/why...
from the last campaign, though the points are still valid.
+ a few answers to some questionable insinuations made throughout this hit-piece:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7628...
I usually love your stuff Steve, but the fact that you're willing to sink libertarianism's (classical liberalism's, however you want to call it) greatest chance at achieving wider success via insinuations, inuendo, and unsubstantiated claims; merely because your side of libertarianism had a scuffle with the other side (I could care less about the drama you old folks had back in the day) is depressing. I guess it's better to protect ones pride and ego, regardless of the costs they would have for ridding ourselves of our true enemies: The GOP, DP, and MSM. Or do you like to live in a world dominated by these entities? Thanks for letting me know how your take is nothing more than a more high-brow, yet just as supposition filled, conspiritorial, take on the MSM's theme. So you know a few more facts about Ron's past connections, whom you admit to having differences with. This doesn't let me know that you have any more substantive points to bring to light, merely that you still hold a grudge and can pinpoint more accurately (than the MSM) those whom you would like ot take down. Talk about not having the courage to back down.
"Let's put this in perspective: Ron Paul mismanaged the editing of his newsletter when he was a full time OBGYN. The rest - politicians, media, bankers - have mismanaged _everything_. I'll take Dr. Paul."
Sums up my thoughts about it.
I was wondering when reason would bring up the newsletters.
I make a motion that "newsletter story" be added to the drinking game.
Can I get a second?
Nay
None of us can afford to get that drunk.
If I was more clever I would come up with some combination word with newsletters and masterbation, ala all of the "mosquerbation" threads.
The one thing the majority of you people fail to realize is that Paul has NO CHANCE OF BEING ELECTED POTUS - with or without the damn newsletters. So all this analysis and blather is pointless. The fact is that the man had, and has, no chance.
So says Nostradamus! Spare me your crystal ball drivel.
No chance. None.
By saying RP has no chance of winning, you disuade people from voting for him.
If nobody votes for RP, he can't win.
YOUR SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY IS SELF FULFILLING
He could win Iowa. He could win NH. Romney and Paul are the only candidates on the VA ballot (and VA is an open primary state, and Obama will not have a primary). You're right, I'm sure the stars will align again at some other point in the future. Maybe 2084 or so. What could waiting hurt?
You all keep backtracking on his expected failure date. First it was supposed to have been Iowa, and we now know you're wrong. You excuse yourselves with whatever lame rationalizations and move on to the next attempt at discrediting his chances. Truth is, the world outside is a lot more complex than the world inside your small heads.
It takes a "realistic" head to realize that Ron Paul, or any other Libertarian candidate, has zero chance of winning a presidential election right now. You obviously don't have one of those realistic heads, Younger Cato.
Thank you for the unintentional lolz when you put "realistic" in quotes, thus indicating that that claim of realism is questionable.
protefeed - please let me know when RP, or any Libertarian candidate, becomes POTUS. Then I'll remove the quotes. I believe I have plenty of time, however.
I think this is the first Reason piece to make clear what this is all about - and it has much more to do with a decades old feud, than it does with Ron Paul.
http://robertfellner.blogspot......words.html
Re: Robert Fellner,
Excellent point!!!
Thank you for the link and nice post, F.
Excellent read! I've been waiting for a good take-down of the Kochtopus by a competent writer. EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS!!!
Gracias.
p.s. I usually like Reason, Cato Inst., et al, except when they decide to go out of bounds with ancient grudges. It seriously helps to hurt their image.
Well just because this is th efirst one to make it clear to you doesn't mean it was clear to others earlier. Kinda like when the government finally admitted the Tonkin was a 100% phony stunt to help get the go ahead to make a billion dollar war...for 30 years the conspiracy nut knew it and then you bastards finally had it "cleared" up for you.
...and it was no problem at all to Robert Fellner.
LOL
He'd be having a cow now if Ron had taken money from the Communist Party or some shit.
Can we get a threadjack please?
It looks like Seattle PD deliberately turns dashcams off when they feel like it. Police chief says they need "training" to better use them. ere's an idea. They should always be on and what they record should be subject to FOIA requests at any time.
Hey, dunphy. Merry Christmas.
I don't understand this hatred toward the Mises Institute. I've been reading it for years and haven't yet seen one article that could be taken as racist or "controversial" in the PC sense.
I think this divide between libertarians, of all ideologies, is not only stupid but it's childish and detrimental to the cause.
Amen! It's one of the most hard-to-understand, self-loathing, self-destructing grudges I've ever witnessed.
It's not hard to understand at all.
It's a fight between Psycho-Libertarians that defend the confederacy and Pseudo-Libertarians that defend the liberty to take government bailouts.
Smoke a cigarette get beaten and choked out.
For extra lulz, read the police's account and how is it wildly different than the numerous eyewitnesses.
Those police officers are sure acting like thugs.
Oh, my God! I've just written something that could be construed as racist/anti-semitic/anti-gay by the Reason people!
You know what I figured out today? I was watching First Blood, the first movie in the Rambo trilogy.* I came to the realization that Sheriff Will Teasle (Brian Dennehy) is the most accurate portrayal of a LEO I can recall in the last 30 years.
*That's right. I said trilogy.
The last one was the best, imo.
I'll know in about 100 minutes.
You are talking the Afghanistan one, right?
No, the one with the blond chick. And I don't mean Hot Shots part Deux.
Blasphemer!!!
There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy out there when it comes to these types of issues. We're talking about racist language and behavior here. Obama spent how many years as a disciple of the Reverend Wright and his racist anti American agenda? It was fine when the future president disavowed Wright and his preaching. Obama simply moved on. Two years later Eric Holder and the Obama administra-tion's justice department refused to indict and prosecute the New Black Panthers for hate speech, hate crimes and violent voter intimidation among other crimes. The language used by members of the New Black Panther party when intimidating white voters at a federal polling place, their brandishing of clubs, and their talk of killing cracker babies was surely more incendiary than anything the so called "Paul Newsletters" contained. The upshot; all charges dropped! And what about the wave of violent black flash mob incidents directed against white citizens that swept the country last spring and early summer? Reports of these incidents were complete with accounts of violent racist language directed at innocent victims caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yet not one person involved in these incidents was charged with a hate crime. What an astounding double standard. These bigots on the left get a pass yet we're forced to watch their minions in the media rake through this ancient nonsense with a fine tooth comb. I'm sickened! Custodians of the status quo both demopublican and republicrat alike are shaking in their boots as the Paul juggernaut gains steam. Their yard dogs are off the chain in both the MSM and the Blogosphere hoping to savage the prospects of the only decent man in politics. It doesn't seem to be working which terrifies me in that I wonder what they'll turn to in true desperation.
There is nothing anti-American about opposing slavery, Jim Crow, and continued unequal treatment under the law. Besides, Wright can't be anti-American because he served his country, Just like Ron Paul, and unlike the chickenhawks.
When black people speak out against America because of how they are treated, they are racist. When white people support using state force/violence to prohibit freedom of association and scare blacks into "staying in their place"- they are true libertarians.. right.
hate speech is not against. I don't know about wielding clubs at a polling place the law. Imagine Ron Paul with a motorcycle suit on and face tattoos intimidating voters in front of a polling place. I thought Obama was wrong to throw Jeremiah Wright under the bus. Blacks have a right to be mad. Ironically most of the people who are screaming racist at Ron Paul are all white or Jewish. I'm Jewish and I don't think we should support Israel any longer. For one they have one of the most advanced military in the world and secondly, they shouldn't be treating the Palestinians like that. After what they went through during WWII, they should know better. The real issue here is that the Mainstream media are the ones who are being marginalized now. After ignoring Dr. Paul's candidacy they are all now being proven wrong about not only Dr. Paul, but what the voters want in America today. I'm personally enjoying watching shale in their boots. Ron Paul 2012
Right, right. They're just jealous. That explains everything.
You hit the nail on the head without even knowing it. The libertarian movement can be divided into two dominant groups: The Rothbardians, which Paul is part of, and the Koch's, which reason is part of. Reason cannot stand that the Rothbard faction has overtaken them in popularity since Ron Paul's 2008 presidential run. They have made a concerted effort to derail the Rothbardian factions growth to no avail. They are coming to see the writing on the wall though, and are making a reluctant peace with Paul, but the resentment will always exist. What's funny is they usually attack when Ron Paul is at his weakest, after putting up an air of alliance during the times his position is stronger. Reason will be the first "libertarian" source to viciously pounce on Paul if it seems like people are going to abandon him. Since his popularity is so high right now, they are very cautious about how to react to their envy and resentment.
Yup, Thomas Woods alone has probably sold more books than all the people with books from Reason and CATO combined.
People from reason and CATO are too busy saving lives and stuff.
Maybe a year or so ago Woods was in the Boston area for a talk. Not at a campus or anything. Just some largish bar. I expected it to be a quiet affair...
PACKED! Guy was treated like rock star.
You know who else packed beer halls and was treated like a rock star?
Spuds McKenzie?
Just as the examiner recently proved in running a story on 'Jules Manson' the racist failed writer and politician, it is entirely possible and even plausible that contributors to news sources sneak heinous content onto websites. You see Manson, who they deemed a 'Paul' supporter went on a racist tirade against the president in the comments section of one of the examiners articles. They were quick to paint Manson as a 'Paulite', failing to mention, that he was one of their own contributing writers. The fact remains, that the letters are inconsistent with Paul's character, he's never been captured on video or recordings anywhere espousing racist principles, and it's not consistent with his policies toward the injustices the penal system currently holds against minorities. Ron Paul is no racist, and the MSM is grasping at straws.
You guys know what I want for Christmas? It's simple. I want P Brooks to make a threaded comment. Right here. Right now. That's all I want.
Please, Brooksie?
Professional writers work as ghost writers in order to write or create books, articles, reports, stories and more for other people. A ghost writer may be hired to turn an outline into a book or a story idea into a short story. They are paid for their time and efforts, but are uncredited for the writing.
While celebrity ghost writers may get some credit for their work with an appellation of 'with' or 'as told to,' most ghost writers are unacknowledged contributors to the work. In those cases, the client or publisher will require a non-disclosure agreement. In the non-disclosure, the writer must agree to never take credit for their work or reveal the fact he or she participated in the project. These non-disclosure agreements are binding and may result in potential lawsuits, loss of credibility and income.
A ghost writer is one of the least appreciated areas of work for writers. Consider for a moment some of the greatest speeches in history. The authors of those speeches are forgotten; it is the speech and the person who delivers it who is remembered. ( or the person whose newsletter the article appeared in ).
Oversight neglect ? Yes.
Racist ? No.
Congress never passes legislation they do not read.., do they ?
I doubt Ron Paul and all his long-time friends and former/current employees of his Congressional office/campaign had typical "ghostwriter" arrangements, and they sure didn't have NDAs. According to Paul he wasn't even aware the company with his name on it was doing a million bucks a year in revenue. He wasn't even aware of anything going on there. he just employed his relatives and campaign workers. A guy that oblivious did not have NDAs with his buddies.
Hate speech bad
FEMA camps good
Obama/Romney 2012
Here is a video that captures the early 90s zeitgeist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UYWmTQRqAo
Right , libertarians are incapable of racism because they are not collectivist, EXCEPT when they choose to be racist collectivists depending on fears and current events?
Can't have it both ways, Ron. Can't call yourself a libertarian anti-racist individualist and then say " Well, didn't you see all the blacks looting?" They are animals! Get untraceable guns and wipe them.
Well, didn't you see them looting? That really happened.
Fucking right it did! And 'animals' is too kind a word for them.
CNN Edited the Interview with Gloria Borger to Look Like he Stormed Out right when she mentioned the newsletters. Ron Paul actually discussed them for more than a few minutes, the full, uncut interview is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....e=youtu.be
"condemning libertarians troubled by the newsletters as rigid purists"
No No No. Have you missed the past 4 years? The Rockwellians are NOT condemning libertarian-libertarians as being too pure. They are claiming for themselves the title of "pure libertarian" grand Masters, and anyone that does not support Ron Paul might not even be called a libertarian ( I think Block threw that charge out there, also), and anyone who has a problem with bigotry is not possibly a libertarian, but a "cosmopolitan" libertarian who celebrates the denigration of our great culture and all that BS. Real libertarians are conservative white Christian non-interventionist goldbugs with untraceable guns. People who have a problem with that are gay cosmotarian war-mongers who spend their nights snorting coke off gay strippers at DC cocktail parties.
Real libertarians are conservative white Christian non-interventionist goldbugs with untraceable guns.
LOLOLOL
Jesus wants you for a sunbeam, to shine for him each day.
This whole comments section is an epic fail butthurt. I shudder to think some of these people are even close to RP's advisors. You people have no idea how politics works and you seriously need to stop crying so much. What a bunch of victims.
Right, cosmotarians know how politics works as evidenced by their enormous political and electoral successes...
Re: Cytotoxic,
We are thus fortunate to have the expert in our midst.
(That was sarcasm, Sheldon.)
I'm not an expert per se but I'm far more attuned to reality than the Paultards on this board.
re: Cytotoxic,
Don't tell me - you can smell colors and hear shapes.
Well, if he dropped a tab of acid...
It's funny to see how you turn on one another when one of your realizes I'm right.
Re: Maxipad,
How quickly you return to do your nasty on the carpet.
I'd better take that rolled-up newspaper again...
"Arf, Arf!"
Yeah, yeah... come here, come on... WHAM!
We wear the chains we forged in life, Sloopy.
+1. Extremely well-played.
Yes, someone wrote some inflammatory articles in a newsletter bearing Ron Pauls name. My guess is that due to his principles, he will not sell out the person who he may suspect it to be. ( terrible things they are..; principles ).
Perhaps Borger has an agenda ??
Gloria Borger is married to Lance Morgan. Morgan is according to the web site of his employer, Powell Tate,"chief communications strategist at Powell Tate in Washington, D.C.
" Christina Martin spokeswoman for House Speaker Newt Gingrich has joined Powell Tate | Weber Shandwick as executive vice president. Martin was press secretary to Speaker Gingrich from 1997-1999. In addition to her work for Gingrich, Martin was press secretary for Iowa governor Terry Branstad from 1994-95.
Suzanne Wilson-Houck - Intelligence and National Security Alliance (INSA), Vice President of Marketing at Ripple Communications. having worked at major DC firms such as Cassidy and Associates and Powell Tate. Suzanne began her career on Capitol Hill as Whip Assistant to Congressman Newt Gingrich.
So who might be the clients of Powell Tate, where Borger's husband is "chief communications strategist and crisis communications" adviser for?
Just about every part of the military industrial-complex that Ron Paul wants to shrink or shutdown. According to the Powell Tate web site, they are strategic communications for among others:
The U.S. Army, The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, The U.S Agency for International Development, The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and, I'm not joking, The National Pork Board.
Bottom line Gloria Borger's husband is as inside Washington DC as you can get.
Careful. Somebody will call you a concern troll.
Vote Ron Paul 2012 He is the only hope for America.
The only ones keeping this bs alive are the people who are scared to death that business will not be the same as usual once Paul wins the nomination. Notice that the only ones screaming about Ron Paul's racism are white people who probably secretly believe everything they read in those newsletters. Returning to the issues won't get them where they want to go, which right now appears to be nowhere. The only thing this shows is the desperation of the MSM and the GOP status quo. Get off it and get back to the issues. Actually, you don't stand a chance either way. America is not buying this crap anymore. Ron Paul 2012
More strawman crap.
no one is suggesting that those comments are taken out of context.
The claim is that they were written by a ghost writer that hid behind Paul's newsletter.
I, for one, think the comments are incendiary particularly because they're out of context.
Read Ron Paul Forums sometime. Bunch of guys saying that the right approach is to "Defend the Conservative Position" contained in the newsletters, and NUMEROUS posters there, twitter, facebook, here, elsewhere have been saying that they "aren't racist," "they aren't bad," they are only bad taken out of context, and/or that the controversial quotes are just stating the facts, anyway. Many many folks are defending the actual content of the newsletters.
People have a right to feel as they wish. Should candidates reject money from Israelis because the oppose AIPAC?
Maybe you could interview the current direcor of the NAACP. He's knowm Paul for 20 years and refutes the ridiculous claims.
Merry Christmas, all you Paulistas!
There were all sorts of moral flaws with Rockwell's "Let's Court teh Weirdos" strategy, but the strategic flaw is what Paulistas should be struggling to get their heads around...
A strategy that's meant to court the militia movement--is a liability with the mainstream swing vote, and the swing vote is what you need to win a general election for president. So, even if Ron Paul did somehow make it past the primaries, there's no way he could win the swing vote in the general election with all that fringe militia movement baggage.
Rockwell and Co. should have seen that coming from decades away--yes, there's a moral failure at the center of it. But that's a major strategic error, too. It's like doing Mayhem era death metal--to get yourself noticed. Sure, you'll get a hardcore group of followers that way--but Mayhem isn't ever gonna make it on Top 40 radio, you know?!
The good news is that the good things you Paulistas like about Ron Paul--aren't about him personally. There's no reason we can't support someone else or something else that's championing individual rights, capitalism, sanity in foreign policy, personal autonomy and everything else... And if we're gonna be honest about things, and Ron Paul is hurting those great ideas by association--because of strategically stupid judgement calls he made 20 years ago?
Then let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot. If the man's a liability to the libertarian movement--so long as mainstream American sees Paulistas apologize for those newsletters? Then we need to cut our losses and move on to the next step.
I was a libertarian before I knew who Paul was, and I'll be a libertarian long after he's retired from public life. For now, the more we get people in the mainstream to disassociate Paul with libertarianism, the better off it'll be for the movement.
Right now who else is there with a sane foreign policy? Also keep in mind that with Gingrich flaming out and not in the ballot in VA that he is now done. This is a race between Romney and Paul. Whose foreign policy do you want? Whose domestic policy?
"Right now who else is there with a sane foreign policy?"
Politicians aren't the solution to our problems. Even if Ron Paul were elected president, he'd only be a little bit of the solution for a little while. The problem with our government isn't the people in charge. It's the voters. Our foreign policy is the way it is because people do whatever they're told when they're scared--'cause fear mongering still works as intended.
If the bus is out of control 'cause the brakes don't work and the steering doesn't work anymore, then the solution isn't trading the bus driver for Ron Paul anyway.
That having been said, if you still want to vote for Ron Paul, go ahead! But--because the problem with this country is how people think? What you say to other people is waaaaaaay more important than how you vote anyway. Vote for Ron Paul if you have to, but please don't defend these newsletters in the name of libertarianism--that's what I'm trying to say.
Defending Ron Paul from the consequences of these newsletters--in front of the mainstream swing voters? Is probably more damaging to the libertarian cause than just about anything else could be.
If because of Paulistas apologizing for these newsletters, average libertarians like me can't talk to their mainstream friends and associates about libertarianism without them associating us with antisemitism, homophobia and racism?
Then there's probably nothing more damaging anyone could do for the cause of libertarianism than defending Ron Paul and these newsletters.
When the Revolution comes, it'll be when mainstream swing voters get on board, and if that ain't never gonna happen so long as people associate the libertarian Revolution with Ron Pauls' newsletters?
Then there are conclusions to draw from that.
A president that vetos everything that comes across his desk wouldn't help much... nor that our troops wouldn't do much nation building during that time either... right...
You are aptly named, Flacid. Such a Vetoing Prez would be great ! And we shouldn't be nation-building anyway. Our own is collapsing as Rand predicted in Atlas Shrugged.
When the Revolution comes, it'll be when mainstream swing voters get on board, and if that ain't never gonna happen so long as people associate the libertarian Revolution with Ron Pauls' newsletters?
Then there are conclusions to draw from that.
Yes the conclusion is that eventually the public will become immune to media strawmen.
We aren't there yet, but we are very close.
Re: Ken Schultz,
What the FUCK are you talking about?
Right - you must be jesting. It would only serve to put libertarians as a bunch of jealous hags, catfighting at the slightest provocation.
Rockwell and Rothbard probably never thought that far ahead because they didn't expect anyone to actually be in a position to compete for the nomination. But it helped with the fundraising and helped getting jobs working for Pat Buchanan and all that stuff.
I mean, Ron Paul didn't really come close to winning anything in 2008, but he still raised $30 million or whatever it was. That's a lot of money to keep his family and longtime insiders working in the libertarian movement. just as pulling in close to a million a year 20 years ago was a pretty good haul, Instead of selling survival kits and racial paranoia it's just selling something else these days.
How many people think 20 years ahead? Well, besides Romney who has been plotting and scheming on how to become president for that long (of which Romneycare was a part).
There's no reason we can't support someone else or something else that's championing individual rights, capitalism, sanity in foreign policy, personal autonomy and everything else...
Unless the 'Campaign for Liberty' is more personal cult than political movement, that is.
Some people really dig the idea that somebody's gonna come save them, don't they?
lol a Randian going off on "personal cults"
I chortled
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I have visited this website from time to time but to be fair I find it rather mainstream and far less appealing with this publication. This country needs leadership not politics. I vote for Ron Paul because he is a leader with good ideas and a solid record of integrity. The rest of the stooges are politicians. The world is running out of room for politicians and frankly I have lost my patience for them. Our liberties are far too eroded now to allow them to continue making big decisions.
Ron Paul is a great politician and plays politics with the best of them. What are you talking about? The fact that he plays politics and somehow convinces his supporters that he doesn't is perhaps the greatest evidence of his political skill.
Christ reason I was with with you on this for the first five articles on this. Ron messed up we get it. He hasnt done a good job with this scandal, we get it. Why are you guys pushing this. With friends like these...
Hey, hey. Try the upper case there, pal!
You make the assumption that Ron Paul did support the message that was being delivered at the time. I highly doubt that Ron Paul ever included this as part of his strategy, that would take stupidity the likes of which i don't think him capable of.
These news letters are likely the only thing the media will be able to dig up that Ron Paul doesn't want dug up, that he wouldn't love to talk about. The fact is he's responded to these newsletters countless times over the years, they're brought up constantly; as a matter of fact a rather embarrassing majority of his coverage in the mainstream media has consisted of him responding to them. That instance you mentioned of him refusing to field continuous questions regarding the letters came after having answered for them exhaustively.
Ron Paul is not a racist, he's not an idiot and he's most definitely not a liar. Suggesting he take responsibility for these newsletters would be forcing him to go against his principles, something he's shown himself unwilling to do. Let's face it, that would be dishonest.
Don't you people have anything better to worry about than 20 year old letters? *ERR* how about the economy, how about the endless wars we get into!
The whole race card is getting old. At some point you have to start taking responsibility for your own successes and failures and stop blaming your race, your group, gender, and the people around you for your dealings of the world. And yes I am a minority.
If the anti Paul people would actually learn to read, do their own research instead of being spoon fed CNN, FOX News, MBNC garbage they might realize that presidency under Paul would actual give more entitlement to groups who are crying racism. Gay marriage for instance Paul says "government has no place in marriage." Your state would decide if gay marriage would be legal or not and you would have a lot more say so in voicing your opinion.
I see a lot comments saying "Paul's a raciest" and then next sentence "Paultards". Isn't that practicing the very thing your crying about, RACISM and discrimination.
You can vote for whomever you want. But PLEASE do your OWN research. I have done mine and I won't be sending my paycheck to Israel, nor my child to fight someone else's religious Holy wars and I won't spend my time worrying about whose a raciest and who isn't. Ron Paul 2012
I haven't heard a peep about the newsletters from any MSM in Hawaii. I had to visit Reason to find these hit pieces on Paul.
It's mostly the same on the mainland. That the MSM covers it at all it is more or less being fed by Reason among a few others. Certainly other news outlets took Reason's headline of Paul "storming out" of a CNN interview and ran with it. Serious question Reason, do you have to fill out any paperwork for all the inkind support you are providing the Romney campaign?
That the MSM covers it at all it is more or less being fed by Reason among a few others.
You're fucking kidding right? You don't actually think Reason controls the media do you? You wouldn't be so flaccid if you'd stop it with the martyr complex.
Reason doesn't have to do their research for them do they? Or craft salacious headlines that are then used such as "the libertarian Reason site is saying that Paul stormed out of an interview!"
Will you only be satisfied when reason touts Ron Paul news releases as fact? Jesus Christ, man. That's what we rail against the MSM outlets for on a daily basis.
You don't actually think Reason controls the media do you?
Of course not.
But they have become a part of the collective hive mind. Their buzzings amplifies and extends the buzzing around them.
'cheering him on as he walks off TV interviews' - except that he didn't.
And your attempt to equate Ron Paul's goodwill generating qualities with Obama are ridiculous. Obama is a highly polarising character.
P.S. I'm a Brit from across the pond and know the difference between good and evil.
Stick with Obama and the evil bastards running him and the next thing you know we'll be in the middle of a THERMO-Nuclear war on behalf of The Tribe.
Your nation can't even master basic dentistry so I'm gonna have to question your ability to discern good from evil.
And your anti-Semitic last sentence just reiterates my point.
Once again, Sloopy demonstrates his most visible character flaw: blatant Anglo-phobia.
Whatever, Jim. Whatever.
Oh, and "phobia" denotes fear. And I sure as hell ain't afraid of a buncha monarchist pussies that can't even take the Argentinians.
Oh, and "phobia" denotes fear.
Not necessarily. In a psychological context it does, but in a broader scientific or biological context, which is the basis for the psychological one, the word isn't used that way. It simply denotes a negative reaction or aversion to something.
A pop psychological context, that is.
p.s. Brazilian chicks are hotter than English chicks. PWN'D!
Um, ^^This^^
There are beautiful women anywhere in the world, though a stroll through a shopping mall in Hawaii ought to convince you that the hottest women are right here: what you can see strolling through, say, Kalihi
Especially during "co-ed season."
Tell me that wasn't your 'best shot'.
Political debate comes down to comparative 'dentistry'?
And what, precisely, is wrong with opposing the evil political will of that tribe of people who have usurped power and with it the largest military industrial complex in history, capable of destroying our planet several times over?
If that makes me an 'anti-semite', then so be it. I oppose them.
Lighten up, Francis. I was merely making a joke that being British doesn't necessarily give one an ability to divine good from evil, which you implied in your post.
And as far as calling Israel "the tribe" over and again, the bigotry is implied in the remark. Why not just call them kikes?
As it is in implying they have "usurped power." Explain to us here how Israel has usurped power.
Frankly I don't much care about motivations, I care about actions. If somebody wants less government, or no government at all because of less than pure motives then that works for me. The only thing a libertarian should truly care about is whether somebody's views are enforced by the state or not. More should be done to emphasize the fact that a libertarian's personal views do not always reflect which policies he advocates.
next thing you know we'll be in the middle of a THERMO-Nuclear war on behalf of The Tribe.
The Cleveland Indians secretly run the world?
Nuclear World War will be deliverance from the hell of civilization
46,225 views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENKwa0-oPI
Got fallout shelter?
Does anybody else think "Michael Madsen in WarGames when they see that screencap?
Anyone?
Gee you're old mister!
Ally Sheedy was cute in that movie. BTW, she turns 50 next year. [Sigh]
With ron paul's thumb on the button?
Interesting the head of the Austin NAACP is standing up for Ron Paul,
http://www.therightperspective.....president/
This is a classic "divide-and-conquer" smear campaign tactic. Get the masses to fight amongst themselves, and they will take their eye of the true enemy ...(fascist, corporatist elite and their bought and paid for mass media and establishment government partners (AKA traitors).
Libertarians by definition cannot be racist, and Ron Paul is the complete opposite of a racist. I am sad to see how many of our fellow citizens are buying these tactics, and failing to see who the real racists and oppressors are. I urge every US citizen to educate themselves on the tyranny of the last Hundred years, and how Ron Paul wants to eliminate it for ALL people. Don't buy thier lies!!
Here are Ron Paul's true feelings on race:
"The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims.
Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees- while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality.
This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."
-Ron Paul, "What Really Divides Us", December 23, 2002
The GOP electorate have made their choice clear in every single poll. They chose "Not Mitt Romney" at 70-80% over Mittens. Paul has a plausible path to the nomination...and the Presidency.
Nope. The kind of Republicans who actually vote in primaries choose "not Ron Paul" at a rate somewhat higher than they choose "not Mitt Romney." If they're stuck with only those two nots to choose from?
(Let's take a moment here on Jesus Day to feel bad for our TEAM RED! friends, because they really, really hate both those guys, and yet through a pretty amazing series of stupid events, they've wound up stuck with only them to choose from. That's fucking horrible!)
?Romney wins.
Paul's support will increase for a while, because the not-Romney is very strong in TEAM RED!, and they'll try almost anything once. But the not-Paul is stronger, and the early-state influx of a bunch of suspiciously OWS-lookin' JOO-hating White People who sicken even the not-Romneyest not-Romneyite will strengthen it further.
This shit's over, man.
Let's just watch the already-written story arc from "RACIST GOP FLOCKS TO RACIST RON RACIST PAUL IN GOP RACE RACE" to "Sensible Northeastern establishment beats down RACIST LIBERTARIAN RATBAGGERS, fields sensible candidate we all could totally vote for" to "RACIST GOP FLOCKS TO RACIST MORMON MADMAN IN RACE RACE RACEY RACE RACE," and not let it bring us down.
k?
Re: C
Sure, sure, and Hillary was slated to be our president back in 2008. Sure.
As a small-L libertarian who reads both Reason.com and LewRockwell.com, I'm always amused by the evident hate between you two. Can you kiss and make up?
"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe." ~Thomas Jefferson
The meme that this is a Koch conspiracy to get Paul out and that Reason hates Paul is laughable. Some of the Reason writers like Doherty and Walker seem to be strong Paul supporters. The other writers seem fairly warm to Paul, at worst, tepidly in support, though they might prefer a Johnson. They're obviously not out to get Paul; in fact, this kind of editorial seems to be concerned that if Paul doesn't take a new approach to the newsletter controversy he'll be done and Dalmia doesn't appear to want that to happen. Secondly, they're journalists, for chrissakes, not campaign managers. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they were merely cheerleading candidates they favored.
The Kochs back Romney. How many hit pieces on Romney have their been versus Ron Paul? Which candidate is the presumptive nominee anyways? Paul right? Which is why he gets all the attention here, right?
They didn't need to get explicit orders. Reason knows who butters their bread. But if you do want to see an example of the Kochs explicitly getting the gears moving at Reason just look at the outpouring of support that occurred after an article appeared in Bloomberg criticizing the Kochs. Such a pathetically slavish display.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=K7v3Tv6oHuHt0gHEh52GAg&ved=0CBsQvwUoAQ&q=site:reason.com+koch+bloomberg&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1385&bih=886
How many hit pieces on Romney have their been versus Ron Paul?
By "hit piece," do you mean how many times does reason point out Romney's duplicity, flip-flopping, general idiocy and malevolent actions when he held office? Because the answer would be, "a lot."
You must be new here. You might want to lurk a while before you make outlandish comments like this.
A lot... Add'em up then. The total would be less than the past few weeks of output on Ron Paul.
Of course it would be less than the number of stories on Paul. This is a libertarian website. It stands to reason there will be more on the current libertarian standard-bearer (and the guy rising in the polls) than a neo-con (who is falling slightly in the polls).
But the stories on policy are overwhelmingly negative IRT Mittens, therefore your statement above is just downright stupid.
By "hit piece," do you mean how many times does reason point out Romney's duplicity, flip-flopping, general idiocy and malevolent actions when he held office? Because the answer would be, "a lot."
BullfuckingSHIT
For every peice slightly critical of Willard there are 5+ each trying to nuke Newt, Ron and the flavor of the week.
Titties nukes himself every time he opens his mouth.But I challenge you to go to the topics page and click on Mittens'link. (I already provided it once in the thread, so go do it yourself) Now tell me, are there really 5X as many trying to nuke Titties? Or Ron Paul for that matter? The answer is a resounding "Hell no!"
And the reason there are pages of Paul material vs Mittens is because Paul is associated with libertarianism while Mittens is not. Same goes for Newcular Titties for that matter. Of course Paul will be on our radar more often.
But you'd rather weave these intricate conspiracy theories about the Kochtopus, Goldman Sachs, The Bilderbergs and Mitt Romney involved in
And so I don't have to argue this with you any more, here is the reason archive on Mitt Romney. Note that there aren't a lot of articles praising his policies or positions.
Try reading your own links. Romney has 1 page that contains everything from 2011 to some of 2007. The first 3 pages for Ron Paul are 2011.
http://reason.com/topics/ron-paul/
Well, seeing as Romney was a non-factor to libertarians from when he dropped out in 2008 until the race started in earnest in 2010, why would he have as many articles about him as Paul. For that matter if the Kochtopus wanted him in the WH, shouldn't we have expected more Romney news in the 2 years reason didn't write a word about him?
Oh, and virtually every story about Romney and/or his policies that isn't generic reporting on a poll is negative. Funny way of trying to steer libertarians into voting for him.
Face it, you're spinning conspiracy theories that don't stand up to even the mildest scrutiny.
Face it, your own link proves you wrong. You suck at this "winning arguments" thing.
Find me 3 articles that support your "the Koch's are in the pocket of Romney and reason is their mouthpiece" meme. I'll find you 20 negative articles to counter it in less than 3 minutes.
That's the point. There aren't a great number of articles on Romney. Minus the ones that repeat basic news sans editorial content there are only a handful of critical ones (nowhere approaching the volume of critical Paul content).
Explain this inexplicable absence of critical pieces on the presumptive front runner.
So, what you're saying is:
Reason doesn't write much about Romney. The ones they do are usually devoid of negative editorial commentary. And because of this you conclude they are in the tank for Romney because the Koch brothers are the puppetmasters.
Do I have that right? If so, I think you've had enough to drink. Put the bottle down if you want to make it to halftime of the Packers-Bears game.
Did you miss the 2008 election? They did the same with McCain.
A few articles on McCain here or there. Rake Paul over the coals on a daily basis.
OK, now I know you're a troll, because even a cursory glance at Reason's archive on McCain, especially Page 2 aren't what I'd call an endorsement.
Just for the record, Matt Welch, the editor-in-chief here at Reason? Wrote a book--completely lambasting McCain just in time for the 2008 election. The name of the book?
McCain: The Myth of a Maverick
This is from the top customer review at Amazon:
"Author Matt Welch provides a warning that if John McCain becomes the next President of the United States we as a nation may well have jumped from the frying pan into the fire."
http://www.amazon.com/McCain-M.....0230603963
And how well did that sell? Of course the pieces that were critical of him were when he was critically low in the polls. When it became clear that he was the presumptive nominee the folks at Reason clammed up.
Of course the pieces that were critical of him were when he was critically low in the polls. When it became clear that he was the presumptive nominee the folks at Reason clammed up.
You're just factually incorrect.
Welch was consistently and persistently critical of McCain all the way to election day.
Go look it up if you want, but those of us who come around all the time already know. You're barkin' up the wrong tree.
Regardless, the idea that supporting Ron Paul is somehow obligatory for being libertarian is hogwash anyway.
Welch's attacks on McCain in 2007-2009 actually became subject of a running joke here among commenters.
We actually used to tell him, "We get it! You don't like McCain. Now give it a rest."
One of the great things about being a libertarian is that we're the most non-monolithic entity in the whole free freakin' world.
We all generally agree that liberty is better than whatever alternative--but other than that, do we all agree about anything?
I hope not.
I certainly don't equate libertarianism with supporting Ron Paul, but it seems like a lot of other people do.
If you ask me, there's something inherently contradictory in libertarians supporting a politician like that as the solution to our problems--but then why should everyone have to agree with me?
Gee, a libertarian who doesn't support Ron Paul? How can that be? Easy! Even the staff don't agree with each other on half the issues--that's just part of what makes this place awesome.
They're all supposed to be pulling in the same direction for Ron Paul, why?
Re: Ken Schultz,
If that were so, then this: "For now, the more we get people in the mainstream to disassociate Paul with libertarianism, the better off it'll be for the movement" would make no sense. It implies a heretic.
Oh, you wrote that. Just a reminder.
Really?
Me thinking that Ron Paul is a liability--for associating libertarianism with bigotry in the minds of mainstream voters--contradicts my suggesting that libertarianism is NOT monolithic how, exactly?
Re: Ken Shultz,
In order to believe that it is NOT monolithic you must believe it is NOT monolithic. Your call to disassociate libertarianism from Paul in front of the mainstream implies he's a heretic of some kind, which implies a heresy which implies a monolithic institution from which he is rebeling.
Unless you want to tell me that Paul is no libertarian. Is that what you want to say? It would be like saying Martin Luther was no Christian.
Right now, there are a lot of people hearing about these newsletters for the first time--people who know very little else about libertarianism except that Ron Paul's associated with it.
Now they're associating libertarianism with bigotry.
It's really not that hard to follow.
I'm a libertarian. Have been since the '80s before I was old enough to register to vote. I don't support Ron Paul. I found out about the newsletters in 2008 here at Reason, and there wasn't anything about those newsletters that reflects me and what I think.
Me pointing out that Ron Paul doesn't reflect me or my thinking--doesn't mean he isn't libertarian. If libertarianism is gonna take root in the mainstream, I think we're gonna have to rid it of those...um...newsletter era associations.
That's my thought. It's not monolithic in any way. Yeah, I think my strategy is better than Rockwell's or whoever that was. That doesn't make my thinking monolithic.
Re: Ken Shultz,
I don't think you're seeing the implication of what you're saying. You're talking about a libertarianism that looks pretty to others. Am I supposed to think that is not monolithic?
Do you really think what was written 20 years ago really does invalidate everything else the person is and has done? Ken, that sounds like PURITANISM. Isn't that along with the above the signs of a monolithic thinking?
Besides, I believe your misgivings are misplaced.
I don't think you're seeing the implication of what you're saying. You're talking about a libertarianism that looks pretty to others. Am I supposed to think that is not monolithic?
No.
If libertarianism is hostile to bigotry in the future, that will not make it monolithic.
"Do you really think what was written 20 years ago really does invalidate everything else the person is and has done? Ken, that sounds like PURITANISM. Isn't that along with the above the signs of a monolithic thinking?
I didn't say that's the way it should be. I was saying that's the way it is.
There's a reason Domino's' Pizza doesn't use homophobia, holocaust denial or racism against people of African ancestry in their commercials. ...it's because they're gunning for a mainstream audience--and they want people to like them.
Whether you like the world where the last swing-voter that puts us over the top--needs to know we're hostile to bigotry before he casts his lot in with us? Is completely beside the point. The point is, we're never gonna get any bigger or more influential than we are if people think we're the sort who defend the kind of crap that's in those newsletters.
Whether you or I like that fact doesn't matter. It's a fact.
The sooner Ron Paul libertarians accept that fact? The sooner we can start making some real progress.
Hate to break it to you Ken, but we don't need Paul to have everyone associate us with bigotry and racism. The simple fact that we oppose entitlement programs and stuff like the CRA being applied to private business is enough for douche nozzles like Tony.
You're wasting keystrokes Sloopy. This guy is a Paultard par excellence. He LOVES being a victim of Koch. He wants Reason to be in on an anti-Paul hitjob.
But flacid tuna will continue with his idiotic meme that the Kochtopus is in the tank for the establishment GOP candidate.
Even if it is only true in his/her mind.
I went to the Reason archives on Romney and immediately found either stories about how he is doing in the polls or attacks on him from a range of issues - mostly on RomneyCare but also on immigration and his general flip flopping. Strange way to support Romney.
KOCH wants one thing.
Increase wealth and power into ever higher, righter, and tighter hands.
The whitewash of liberty over the shitstormfront of capitalist aggression works well.
Re: White Imbecile
Yeah, and the Sinai had cedars...
Wrong, city-STATIST shitbird.
The Sinai had OAK.
Even the Sinai which is located to the Southeast and the Negev, East of the present state of Israel, bear evidence of past, perhaps abundant forests. The 1960 investigations of Sir William Flinders Petrie into mining operations in the Wadi Nash area of the western Sinai desert, believed to date from the third millennium, BC, yielded unmistakable clues:
"(Petrie) found a bed of wood ashes 100 feet long, 50 feet wide and 18 inches deep, and also a slag dump from copper smelting, 6-8 feet deep, 500 feet long and 300 feet wide. It seems that the adjacent area, now desert, must have borne combustibles during the period when the mines were operating. Similarly, in the Negev, copper smelting kilns of a highly developed kind dating from 1000 BC have been found in the now quite desert-like Wadhi Araba."
Man and the Mediterranean Forest: A history of resource depletion. J. V. Thirgood. Academic Press. 1961. p. 52.
Re: White Imbecile,
Oak.... Oh, my mistake: You're even more deluded than what I feared.
This is "delusion?"
Man and the Mediterranean Forest: A history of resource depletion. J. V. Thirgood. Academic Press. 1961. p. 52.
You're more desperate than I feared.
Yes, of course there was only one type of tree in the region. That's so typical of most areas of the world..only one type of vegetation. I notice the source you cite doesn't seem to mention oak, merely wood ashes. Unless you intend that "combustibles" can only mean oak. Not only that, it's a source from fifty years ago. You mean to tell me there hasn't been any meaningful research into this in the last fifty years? It's almost as though nobody cares....
Re: Contrarian P,
Not almost... Absolutely.
I have to thank Shikha and Horowitz for the informative link to Lew Rockwell's article in the January 1990 issue of the Liberty newsletter (pgs 34-38). However, Rockwell's article does *not* propose an unholy alliance between paleo-libertarians and paleo-conservatives based on a racist "manifesto" and "logic" as the authors would have us believe. As a member of the minority myself, I found nothing racist in the article. Quite the contrary, I thought it was a well-reasoned rationale for why it makes sense for true conservatives and true libertarians to work together towards limited government and greater freedoms for all. If anything, it has opened my eyes to the fact that the real reason why the Neo-cons split definitively from the Paleo-cons around the time that the article was written (right after the fall of the Berlin wall and when the end of the Soviet Union was evident to all) was because they had to find another justification for their hyper-militaristic ideology, now that the "Evil Empire" had ended. The Paleo-conservatives wanted to go back to the traditional Republican (and truly conservative) platform of limited foreign engagements and fiscal responsibility at home. The Neo-cons apparently had other objectives in mind.
Perhaps Shikha and Horowitz are hoping that people are too lazy and/or uninformed to do their homework. That may be true for some, but there are many more people who have come to the conclusion that the issues that are at stake in this election are far too important for voters to be influenced by mis-information - deliberate or otherwise.
I appeal to the author and to Reason to truly examine their motives for writing such misleading articles. Whatever your bosses and paymasters have offered you - or threatened you with - is it worth contributing to the destruction of the noble ideals upon which our Republic rests?
"Pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach." ~Thomas Jefferson
It's not genocide when we do it!
If you meant to highlight that some Founding Fathers behaved in a manner that was inconsistent with their beliefs, you would be correct. But I don't see how this as a relevant argument against the ideals laid out in the Constitution.
David,
Don't reply to White Imbecile (aka White Indian, aka the idiot with the thousands links to irrelevant and boring stuff)
He's just an uninteresting troll.
Old domesticated poodle, like a shadow, is always yipping behind White Indian's heels.
Out of context much?
No, I'm not quoting anything out of context, Fundie. You don't even know what "context" means academically.
Context!!!!!!
240,550 views | Feb 22, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o
You didn't even bother quoting the entire sentence that Jefferson wrote. The paragraph in which it was written clearly describes a reaction to what Jefferson saw as aggression against women and children. You can debate the wrongheadedness of Jefferson's perception, but quoting a sentence fragment (even helpfully capitalizing the first word of it to make it seem like a complete thought) is similar to back when you quoted a character from an Ayn Rand novel as speaking for her own opinions. Remember that?
Pray tell, what special meaning does context have in academia that it doesn't have in the dictionary? And since it's already been established that you are no academician, why are you concerned with academics anyhow? Maybe I missed the part where youtube is a scholarly source?
Yeah, as if the Indians were the aggressors.
LOL
Last I heard, the Indians didn't invade Europe. Heard anything different?
Nice way to change the subject when you're beaten. You basically completely failed to address any of the salient points, choosing instead to obfuscate the issue by switching to some other topic.
Just because Ron Love Paul said: "I also put out a political type of business investment newsletter?" And his name and phone number are in the newsletters does not mean that Ron Love Paul had anything to do with the newsletters.
Black is white. War is peace. Lies are truth.
Did you visit your dead mother to tell her that you write nonsense on the internet?
Prince of Peace
or
war profiteers ?
Don't you even care about who that Jesus guy associated with!?!?! That discredits his whole message for me.
im goin on a limb here but is horwitz a jew? if so this article makes sense.
Probably a "former leftist" as well. I get tired of all the former leftists acting like the pope of the movement.
Why don't you go demand accountability from the Obama administration on a long long list of things. Including the illegal Mexican gun running or the dreaded NDAA bill. Oh and what about the fed and the 7.7 trillion or the 2.3 trillion the pentagon "lost" back in 2001. Then there's Nancy Pelosi's insider information scandal we all know she did it. What's the matter? Why is no one in the media pressing forward on all these topics? Strange. However there seems to be no shortage of minions fiendishly willing to go after Dr. Paul with blatant lies and all manner of completely false accusations.
Ron Paul for POTUS 2012!
Educate yourself Shikha , you sound ignorant.you have a responsibility as a journalist..you did a poor job in this article.
Ron Paul's has never wavered from his views, here they are.
"Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism,
the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals . . .
By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "
diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is
inherently racists . . .
we should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups
and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty."
Ron Paul
Agricultural city-Statists collectively pay taxes to:
1. Slaughter Non-State peoples on the Land
2. Establish vast road systems
3. Build huge irrigation systems
4. Dig gigantic drainage systems
5. Hire a professional violence caste to enforce their taking.
Then divvy up the stolen Land amongst themselves, and call it "private" property.
LOL
You still alive, WI? I thought Puff Daddy snuffed you back in that compound when you splashed blood on his fur.
Re: White Imbecile,
They don't pay anything, you worthless piece of shit. Taxes are not voluntary.
Go out and cry like the little girl you are after getting a paper cut with a dandelion.
...isn't voluntary.
"Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home."
~Stanley Diamond
In search of the primitive:
a critique of civilization
page 1, first sentence
Premise Two: Traditional communities do not often voluntarily give up or sell the resources on which their communities are based until their communities have been destroyed. They also do not willingly allow their landbases to be damaged so that other resources?gold, oil, and so on?can be extracted. It follows that those who want the resources will do what they can to destroy traditional communities.
~Derrick Jensen
Endgame
http://www.endgamethebook.org/.....emises.htm
Re: White Imbecile with a problem with logic,
Is contradicted by:
That implies voluntary action.
The backpedaling White Imbecile, who would cry like a little girl after the few nuts he found for his only meal of the day are stolen by squirrels slightly more butch than him.
OM,
Logic /~= vermin shit.
On dearie, the wilderness is so frightening, and our glorious city-Statism is so peaceful -- if you just behave submissively like an old Poodle.
Re: White Imbecile,
You're one to talk, who would cry like a little girl after a quick wind and rain washes away the meager pickings you obtained if in your beloved "original affluent society."
Waa waa waa!
Call Off Your Tired Old Ethics.
WI believes in Original Sin applying to Others, but not to WI.
WI prays for PLAGUE, FAMINE and WAR to reduce the "evil" human stain.
WI would cry like a wussy little girl if a sliver entered his lily-white skin when having to suddenly live in his beloved "original affluent society."
WI would wet himself (and cry like a girl) if having to eat the maggot-infested kill of coyotes.
WI would cry cries of woe if being infected by giardia if having to drink the water in his beloved "original affluent society."
WI is full of unresolved infantile cravings and regressive yearnings. na na na na na nah!
Nothing brings out teh stoopid like a Ron Paul article...
Significant discounts -- plus a fenced in area in the back for a very tall horse!
How about that Mitt Romney? What a fine upstanding citizen he is.
Reason mag = pied pipers for the establishment.
Fuck all'ya'll.
~Suck my KOCH
Immense Anti-War Penis?
Hey, look: a three-headed monkey!
Check out Sasha Baron Cohen's "Bruno" movie to see Ron Paul's private views and attitudes about homosexuals. Not saying it means' he's a racist, and not wanting to give foreign aid to ANY country doesn't make you an anti-semite just because "any country" includes Israel (shame on anyone who calls him an anti-semite for that reason). But that scene in the movie is enlightening... Ron Paul can get angry.
You've never seen nor experienced anger in your life then. Ron got flustered at a guy being an asshole. If Ron Paul had clocked him I still wouldn't care. Sasha guy deserved it. And again I repeat myself, I'm astonished by all the delicate flowers that inhabit this blog.
Re: BruceM,
You're insulting all homosexuals by comparing them to Bruno.
"You're insulting all *humans* by comparing them to Bruno.'
Guy's the master of the cheap shot.
Re: Sevo,
Well, yes, but I didn't want to stray too much out of topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3EADdr-5AY
Ron Paul caught being racist on TV.
Ah yes, the Tavis Smiley "African American" debate which was on PBS. It also included Hispanics asking questions, but who's counting, eh? Of course Romney, McCain, and Giuliani all had scheduling conflicts and couldn't attend the debate which was held at the historically black Morehouse College.
When will Romney answer this kid's question? It's been unanswered since 2007.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwEStlM8dA4
Doh. Morgan State rather.
It's a fair question, although I could have done without all of the "air quotes."
Face it Sloopster, you've been "fact PWN'D"!
I feel so sad. But at least I didn't just collapse like Kobe's Lakers.
Go Bulls! Go Rose!
So you admit to disliking my "African American" air quotes do you?
I just can't stand when people make the air quote sign when talking, especially when the word doesn't warrant quotation marks.
It's a scientific fact that it's a sign of mental retardation.
Now that's how you troll RP haters. Awesome.
Ron Paul says, "Libertarians are incapable of being a racist."
You all have no idea how idiotic that statement is, do you?
Please, don't bother trying to explain to me what the pipsqueak meant. I see a lot of that here at Reason, people who are more articulate than Paul trying to present his views as if they were smarter, more coherent, more complex and less kooky than they really are. It's just not persuasive. If you can't see you're debasing yourself by supporting such nonsense, there's no rational argument that's going to reach you. Well, you all may not be able to see yourselves critically, but I guarantee you it's not like that for the rest of us. I'm telling you this as a favor to you. You're welcome.
Hurr der her. I'm obviously retarded cause I don't see what you are saying. I would love to hear your explanation though.
The real shame of this article is that now Ms. Dalmia can go to Nick and Matt and say, "Hey, look. I get over 500 comments in 2 hours on my stories."
Ron Paul's supporters are sure of one thing: Their candidate has always been consistent?a point Dr. Paul himself has been making with increasing frequency. It's a thought that comes up with a certain inevitability now in those roundtables on the Republican field. One cable commentator genially instructed us last Friday, "You have to give Paul credit for sticking to his beliefs."
He was speaking, it's hardly necessary to say, of a man who holds some noteworthy views in a candidate for the presidency of the United States. One who is the best-known of our homegrown propagandists for our chief enemies in the world. One who has made himself a leading spokesman for, and recycler of, the long and familiar litany of charges that point to the United States as a leading agent of evil and injustice, the militarist victimizer of millions who want only to live in peace.
Enlarge Image
Getty Images
GOP presidential contender Ron Paul
Hear Dr. Paul on the subject of the 9/11 terror attacks?an event, he assures his audiences, that took place only because of U.S. aggression and military actions. True, we've heard the assertions before. But rarely have we heard in any American political figure such exclusive concern for, and appreciation of, the motives of those who attacked us?and so resounding a silence about the suffering of those thousands that the perpetrators of 9/11 set out so deliberately to kill.
There is among some supporters now drawn to Dr. Paul a tendency to look away from the candidate's reflexive way of assigning the blame for evil?the evil, in particular, of terrorism?to the United States.
One devout libertarian told me recently that candidate Paul "believes in all the things I do about the menace of government control, and he's a defender of the Constitution?I just intend to take what I like about him." The speaker, educated and highly accomplished in his field (music), is a committed internationalist whose views on American power are polar opposites of those his candidate espouses. No matter. Having tuned out all else that candidate has said?with, yes, perfect consistency?it was enough for him that Dr. Paul upheld libertarian values.
This admirer is representative of a fair number of people now flocking to the Paul campaign or thinking of doing so. It may come as a surprise to a few of them that in the event of a successful campaign, a President Paul won't be making decisions based just on the parts of his values that his supporters find endearing. He'd be making decisions about the nation's defense, national security, domestic policy and much else. He'd be the official voice of America?and, in one conspicuous regard, a familiar one.
The world may not be ready for another American president traversing half the globe to apologize for the misdeeds of the nation he had just been elected to lead. Still, it would be hard to find any public figure in America whose views more closely echo those of President Obama on that tour.
Most of Dr. Paul's supporters, of course, don't actually imagine he can become president. Nor do they dwell on the implications of the enlarged influence conferred on him by a few early primary victories (a third-party run is not something he rules out, the ever-consistent Dr. Paul has repeatedly said under questioning).
Related Video
Dorothy Rabinowitz on the blind faith of Ron Paul's devout followers.
A grandfatherly sort who dispenses family cookbooks on the campaign trail, candidate Paul is entirely aware of the value of being liked. He has of late even tried softening the tone of some of his comments on the crime of foreign aid and such, but it doesn't last long. There he was at the debate last Thursday waving his arms, charging that the U.S. was declaring "war on 1.2 billion Muslims," that it "viewed all Muslims as the same." Yes, he allowed, "there are a few radicals"?and then he proceeded to hold forth again on the good reasons terrorists had for mounting attacks on us.
His efforts on behalf of Iran's right to the status of misunderstood victim continued apace. On the Hannity show following the debate, Dr. Paul urged the host to understand that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had never mentioned any intention of wiping Israel off the map. It was all a mistranslation, he explained. What about Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust? A short silence ensued as the candidate stared into space. He moved quickly on to a more secure subject. "They're just defending themselves," he declared.
Presumably he was referring to Iran's wishes for a bomb. It would have been intriguing to hear his answer had he been asked about another Ahmadinejad comment, made more than once?the one in which the Iranian leader declares the U.S. "a Satanic power that will, with God's will, be annihilated."
There can be no confusions about Dr. Paul's own comments about the U.S. After 9/11, he said to students in Iowa, there was "glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq." It takes a profoundly envenomed mindset?one also deeply at odds with reality?to believe and to say publicly that the administration of this nation brought so low with grief and loss after the attack had reacted with glee. There are, to be sure, a number of like-minded citizens around (see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share). But we don't expect to find their views in people running for the nation's highest office.
The Paul comment here is worth more than a passing look. It sums up much we have already heard from him. It's the voice of that ideological school whose central doctrine is the proposition that the U.S. is the main cause of misery and terror in the world. The school, for instance, of Barack Obama's former minister famed for his "God d? America" sermons: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, for whom, as for Dr. Paul, the 9/11 terror assault was only a case of victims seeking justice, of "America's chickens coming home to roost."
Some in Iowa are reportedly now taking a look at Dr. Paul, now risen high in the polls there. He has plenty of money for advertising and is using it, and some may throw their support to him, if only as protest votes. He appears to be gaining some supporters in New Hampshire as well. It seemed improbable that the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies could be near the top of the pack in the Iowa contest, but there it is. An interesting status for a candidate of Dr. Paul's persuasion to have achieved, and he'll achieve even more if Iowans choose to give him a victory.
"(see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share)."
I see what you did there.
I don't feel like reading your entire lengthy comment. Everything Paul has said about 9/11 is from the first few pages of the 9/11 Report. Seriously. All you need to read is the first few pages. Don't pretend that it's outlandish.
And consistency... the other guy in this race goes by the name Mitt Romney and right now he appears to be running against his singular achievement as governor which was aptly nicknamed "Romneycare." You may have heard of it as it was the template for Obamacare.
Look at how they twisted his arm to get him to sign health care reform in MA!
http://www.boston.com/news/pol.....ng_608.jpg
Torture! Sheer torture!
That looks like a scene straight out of The Hudsucker Proxy.
And for the record, reason's archive on Romney and health care is extensive.
Re: flacid tuna,
The coward that posted that is simply copying something published on the WSJ.
Most of it is just trash. The rest is rubbish.
I think this was by Dershowitz. Mostly shit, but the stuff RP said about Iran being 'mis-translated' is outlandish. It actually demonstrates a cognitive dissonance.
Ron Paul apparently thinks Americans are smart enough to stop marching to the drumbeat of warmongers like Rabinowitz. And the message seems to be getting across, which leaves neocons absolutely apoplectic. Deliciously so.
Ms. Dalmia is on rocky ground. The only "vicious thing" she could find was a statement that "blacks [are] criminally inclined." Not knowing the context, this is hard to gauge, but the government's crime statistics would tend to support this contention. Mr. Horwitz is also guilty of sloppiness. He links to a fly-by-night blog titled "Rightwatch," a blog that apparently self-terminated in April 2008. The blog's credibility is quite questionable, as it attempted to smear a Federal legislator, Paul, as being pro-drug prohibition, because Paul was against the Federal war on drugs, but was aware the question was Constitutionally a State one. If the newsletters are truly problematic, it should not be difficult to find a truly "vicious thing" in them, instead of utilizing lazy inferences and intellectual dishonesty.
HOLIDAY QUIZ!
Who said: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"
A. Professor Marvel
B. The Wizard of Oz
C. Ron Love Paul
"Ernieeee"
"Mom?!? Is that you?? But you're dead!"
"What are you doing, Ernieee?"
"Mom, I... I... I'm just fooling around on the Internet!"
"You're a sinner, Ernie. A sinner! You are bearing false witness against someone!"
"Mom! Wha... What? No! How can you say that?"
"Do you really think the Lord can't see what you're doing, Ernie? Do you think He does not know??? You will be damned for life, Ernie!"
You'd think that the staff at Reason had never come into contact with third party politics. I swear, this article would make you think they're a bunch of virgins who just saw a naked man for the first time. I was President of College Libertarians at my alma mater back in the day. One of the bigwigs at YAF phoned me, we started a dialogue, and he eventually joined the LP. I asked him why he joined YAF in the first place. He said their politics weren't exactly what he believed in, but they were closer to what he believed than any of the known optins at the time. That's politics. Today's radicals are tomorrow's mainstream. Conservatives were radicals in 64. SDS was the radical group in 72. Now their views represent the mainstream of both major parties.
OT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rknw0eF4hNI
Just watch this first few-minute part and let the moocher's nature sink in
Vodka and Orange Fanta? What the fuck is wrong with that fat little fuckhead?
She's a welfare queen Limetree with a fucking peanut for a brain, a single-digit IQ, and a fat ass I wouldn't hit with a barbed electric baton.
That shit is fucked up. I'll find the most disgusting ones later and link you to them -- some of the ones, if I recall, will literally make your jaw drop.
some of the ones, if I recall, will literally make your jaw drop.
Jaw dropping like this?
Or the other kind?
Pretty badass, but no, unfortunately. The other kind. An Australian kid calling the black dude from what I think was Tennessee (long time ago -- little recollection) who'd just thrown a welcome party for him and his co-dipshit a stupid nigger and running down the street in an upper-middle-class neighborhood swearing like a sailor with a bottle of vodka he refused to give up when they introduced the kids to their family rules.
But it's pretty fun to watch.
And that wasn't a bad picture, so you've earned yourself payback --
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8646/444if.jpg
Nice, eh?
That's nice that she's helping her friend ride that bike.
This girl is also nice, for helping her friend answer the phone.
Yeah, but not nearly as nice as THIS girl helping HER friend undress in preparation for some unexpected, unplanned intimacy below deck:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/65/65086619.jpg
Wow, that's an old XLT 800 Waverunner in the background.
And what happens when they get below decks and see their salon is already occupied?
They'll return to the mainland utterly unsatisfied, incomplete, enraged, and they'll get matching tattoos as an exhibit of their fury to the outside world */wrists*
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3589/131rh.jpg
And they will hopefully use a handbra when appropriate.
After reading Mr. Horwitz's post, Ms. Dalmia appears to be dishonestly reporting it. To frame something in context, you must first present that some thing. Horwitz does not present that thing, the problematic portion or portions of the newsletters; instead, he essentially says they are bad, and with nothing supporting his premise that they are bad, then tries to frame them into a particular context. Without any supporting evidence, this looks like an attempt to slander Ron Paul by association.
Wow, if you type in Ron Paul on the Google News page you'll see the quote:
"If you have ever been robbed by a black teenage male, you know how unbelievably fleet of foot they can be" attributed directly to Ron Paul.
He's right, someone them are faster than hell.
Ron Paul 2012, don't believe these media smears. Everything Ron Paul has said or done is completely anti-racism!
Goodness how one can see only what one wants to see.
This is just more of why folks have been leaving Reason over the years and been looking for DC-free and Koch-free libertarians.
Where did they go wrong?
Folks,
Reason is NO longer the main voice of libertarian thought. It has been co-opted by power and DC.
There are plenty of other outlets to get one's libertarian fix.
I do wonder what Romney has promised the Koch brothers after he is elected.
Ron Paul has more libertarian goodness in his little finger than both Koch's do in their entire empire.
What a pity.
I voted for them in 1980.
What the heck happened to their souls and brains?
Man, the Kochtopus is powerful! First, they created the Tea Party with their funding and other miscellaneous support, and now, they've started the conspiracy to knock Paul out of the race. This is all so they can get their boy (non-teapartier) Romney in power, who is really just a highly sophisticated robot...or not so sophisticated, but he'll do. Once in power, RomneyKoch will travel back in time to assassinate Murray Rothbard while he was still a struggling grad student, nipping the Rothbardian branch of libertarianism in the bud.
But isn't "Rothbardian branch of libertarianism," just another phrase for "common sense?"
Re: Sloopyinca,
I also find the divide between the Randians and the Rothbardians silly, as both share the same philosophy. I am still stumped by Reason's continuous attack aon Paul, even going as far as defaming him with this "he made millions!!" and "he stormed out!!" shit. I can understand the newsletter issue up to a point, but downright LYING? For what purpose? I'm guessing it is because they (Reason) do not see in him the perfect candidate, but who the fuck is the perfect candidate? Gary? Please, he is still too wet around the ears when it comes to recognition and following.
I also don't buy this Gott Mit Uns Und Mitt crap. I am inclined towards a "not biting the hand that feeds you" thing with the Kochs, but I am only speculating.
I don't know, OM. I think they were just in a rush to play the CNN story, and I kinda read it as flattering Paul with having the stones to basically say to Bolger, "fuck off, I'm out."
As far as the Kochtopus thing, I can't believe for a minute they are dancing to the tune their puppetmasters are playing. It may sound like ass-kissing, but I have a lot of faith in the reason staff and don't think they would sell their souls to tow the company lion. I honestly believe it just plays into the "typical libertarians are willing to sacrifice the good for the perfect" meme people have been saying about us for as long as I can remember.
Case in point: I bet the bulk of libertarians that say they won't vote for Paul agree with him on 80-90% of the issues, but will not vote for him because it's all or nothing.
Disclaimer: I will vote for Paul. I agree with him on most issues and am willing to let him off without vilifying him where I don't agree with him.
Upthread, I was just pointing out how I think he needs to react to defuse this newsletter stuff, but I still support the man.
Only if they can get the DeLorean up to eighty-eight miles per hour...and get ahold of either some lightning or plutonium.
Simple:
Mr. Ron Paul wants to end the drug war.
You vote for Ron Paul, brothers get out and stay out.
You vote for one of these other knuckleheads you stay in and continue to get locked up. Even if you vote for brotherman Obama.
Those are the facts.
Don't be a chump/punk white people are using you against yourself. Don't fall for the white noise. You fall for this your nothing but a bitch. "The biggest mistake a bitch can make is to think that a pimp really loves her" Iceberg. The MSM is using you.
Ron Paul's supporters are sure of one thing: Their candidate has always been consistent?a point Dr. Paul himself has been making with increasing frequency. It's a thought that comes up with a certain inevitability now in those roundtables on the Republican field. One cable commentator genially instructed us last Friday, "You have to give Paul credit for sticking to his beliefs."
He was speaking, it's hardly necessary to say, of a man who holds some noteworthy views in a candidate for the presidency of the United States. One who is the best-known of our homegrown propagandists for our chief enemies in the world. One who has made himself a leading spokesman for, and recycler of, the long and familiar litany of charges that point to the United States as a leading agent of evil and injustice, the militarist victimizer of millions who want only to live in peace.
Enlarge Image
Getty Images
GOP presidential contender Ron Paul
Hear Dr. Paul on the subject of the 9/11 terror attacks?an event, he assures his audiences, that took place only because of U.S. aggression and military actions. True, we've heard the assertions before. But rarely have we heard in any American political figure such exclusive concern for, and appreciation of, the motives of those who attacked us?and so resounding a silence about the suffering of those thousands that the perpetrators of 9/11 set out so deliberately to kill.
There is among some supporters now drawn to Dr. Paul a tendency to look away from the candidate's reflexive way of assigning the blame for evil?the evil, in particular, of terrorism?to the United States.
One devout libertarian told me recently that candidate Paul "believes in all the things I do about the menace of government control, and he's a defender of the Constitution?I just intend to take what I like about him." The speaker, educated and highly accomplished in his field (music), is a committed internationalist whose views on American power are polar opposites of those his candidate espouses. No matter. Having tuned out all else that candidate has said?with, yes, perfect consistency?it was enough for him that Dr. Paul upheld libertarian values.
This admirer is representative of a fair number of people now flocking to the Paul campaign or thinking of doing so. It may come as a surprise to a few of them that in the event of a successful campaign, a President Paul won't be making decisions based just on the parts of his values that his supporters find endearing. He'd be making decisions about the nation's defense, national security, domestic policy and much else. He'd be the official voice of America?and, in one conspicuous regard, a familiar one.
The world may not be ready for another American president traversing half the globe to apologize for the misdeeds of the nation he had just been elected to lead. Still, it would be hard to find any public figure in America whose views more closely echo those of President Obama on that tour.
Most of Dr. Paul's supporters, of course, don't actually imagine he can become president. Nor do they dwell on the implications of the enlarged influence conferred on him by a few early primary victories (a third-party run is not something he rules out, the ever-consistent Dr. Paul has repeatedly said under questioning).
Related Video
Dorothy Rabinowitz on the blind faith of Ron Paul's devout followers.
A grandfatherly sort who dispenses family cookbooks on the campaign trail, candidate Paul is entirely aware of the value of being liked. He has of late even tried softening the tone of some of his comments on the crime of foreign aid and such, but it doesn't last long. There he was at the debate last Thursday waving his arms, charging that the U.S. was declaring "war on 1.2 billion Muslims," that it "viewed all Muslims as the same." Yes, he allowed, "there are a few radicals"?and then he proceeded to hold forth again on the good reasons terrorists had for mounting attacks on us.
His efforts on behalf of Iran's right to the status of misunderstood victim continued apace. On the Hannity show following the debate, Dr. Paul urged the host to understand that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had never mentioned any intention of wiping Israel off the map. It was all a mistranslation, he explained. What about Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust? A short silence ensued as the candidate stared into space. He moved quickly on to a more secure subject. "They're just defending themselves," he declared.
Presumably he was referring to Iran's wishes for a bomb. It would have been intriguing to hear his answer had he been asked about another Ahmadinejad comment, made more than once?the one in which the Iranian leader declares the U.S. "a Satanic power that will, with God's will, be annihilated."
There can be no confusions about Dr. Paul's own comments about the U.S. After 9/11, he said to students in Iowa, there was "glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq." It takes a profoundly envenomed mindset?one also deeply at odds with reality?to believe and to say publicly that the administration of this nation brought so low with grief and loss after the attack had reacted with glee. There are, to be sure, a number of like-minded citizens around (see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share). But we don't expect to find their views in people running for the nation's highest office.
The Paul comment here is worth more than a passing look. It sums up much we have already heard from him. It's the voice of that ideological school whose central doctrine is the proposition that the U.S. is the main cause of misery and terror in the world. The school, for instance, of Barack Obama's former minister famed for his "God d? America" sermons: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, for whom, as for Dr. Paul, the 9/11 terror assault was only a case of victims seeking justice, of "America's chickens coming home to roost."
Some in Iowa are reportedly now taking a look at Dr. Paul, now risen high in the polls there. He has plenty of money for advertising and is using it, and some may throw their support to him, if only as protest votes. He appears to be gaining some supporters in New Hampshire as well. It seemed improbable that the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies could be near the top of the pack in the Iowa contest, but there it is. An interesting status for a candidate of Dr. Paul's persuasion to have achieved, and he'll achieve even more if Iowans choose to give him a victory.
"(see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share)."
I see what you did there.
What? Again?
Besides, it was thoroughly debunked.
http://www.foreignpolicyjourna.....r-prophet/
And we also have this bit of 'hyperbole' (read: Lie):
"the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies"
I don't get all the Mitt-Hate.
Because if libertarians means a certain thing, then Mitt is the antithesis of that thing.
Romney: "Why do people hate me on sight"
Sevo: "Saves 'em time"
anyone who attaches the slightest importance to any of the "ISMS" - which the media use to pollute current political and social discourse - is much too STUPID to support Ron Paul in the first place - so this whole "issue" is irrelevant - and Ron Paul is correct in dismissing it - graciously or otherwise - as circumstances dictate.
charles ranalli
albuquerque
This is a classic "divide-and-conquer" smear campaign tactic. Get the masses to fight amongst themselves, and they will take their eye of the true enemy ...(fascist, corporatist elite and their bought and paid for mass media and establishment government partners (AKA traitors).
Libertarians by definition cannot be racist, and Ron Paul is the complete opposite of a racist. I am sad to see how many of our fellow citizens are buying these tactics, and failing to see who the real racists and oppressors are. I urge every US citizen to educate themselves on the tyranny of the last Hundred years, and how Ron Paul wants to eliminate it for ALL people. Don't buy thier lies!!
Here are Ron Paul's true feelings on race:
"The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims.
Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees- while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality.
This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."
-Ron Paul, "What Really Divides Us", December 23, 2002
I really don't give a damn about what was contained in a newsletter 20 years ago. I have been following Ron Paul for the last 15 yrs. This man is not a racist!!! I am voting for Ron Paul NO MATTER what, because he is the best candidate running. He is the only candidate who is a non interventionist who isn't beholden to empire. He is the only candidate that wants real change. Obama damned sure doesn't want change. Obama was elected, then decided to continue the failed policies of warmongering by the Bush administration. Ron Paul is the only anti-racist running in this election. Obama's policies are killing black people, not just in the USA, but in Africa too. Don't vote for Obama just because he's black. Obama is a warmonger who has done nothing at all but totally neglect the black community. The only group that Obama wants to help resides in the offices of Goldman Sachs, a company that has been taking advantage of black people for decades. A vote for Obama is a vote for Empire. Don't be fooled. Actions speak louder than words. Look that What Obama has done...He's escalated the empires wars in Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia. He has attacked the constitution making in possible to indefinitely detain American Citizens without charges a judge, jury or trial. We do not need this kind of change.
"it apparently made some folks (such as Rockwell and Paul) pretty rich selling newsletters predicting the collapse of Western civilization at the hands of the blacks, gays, and multiculturalists."
Well maybe not the collapse of Western civilization at the hands of blacks and gays, but definately the collapse of the republic, Western banking, the housing market, the stock market and individual liberty at the hands of bankers. We are in desperate times created by a leviathan government and a compliant media. This is where trusting the mainstream media and politicians got us and now they want us to trust them? People are living in tents because of this collapse and total ruin is only being avoided by banks printing tens of trillions of dollars to lend to government who then turns around and gives it to the bankers and taxpayer expense.
Ron Paul 2012!
And if Paul wins the GOP nomination as well as the Presidency then that would pretty much render your whole point,......(what's the word I'm searching for here,.... oh yeah)
...mute.
This propaganda smear against Paul is only going to help him get elected. Dr Paul is not a racist and is the only pres candidate that would not vote against gay marriage. The media is trying so hard at the orders of their masters to knock down Paul. But once someone hears and gets to understand the good Dr, they never go back. The only thing the media is doing is helping Paul get the votes of the racists that were supporting Gingrich and Bachman. So let them believe Paul is a racist.. IT WILL ONLY HELP! LOL
Dr Paul is not a racist and is the only pres candidate that would not vote against gay marriage.
And the only candidate who bar them from eating at restaurants.
"And the only candidate who bar them from eating at restaurants."
Cite?
I think he meant to say, "Ron Paul is the only one that wants to allow gay or straight restaurant owners to serve who they wish on their private property."
I think he accidentally set his autocorrect to "statist" mode.
I think you credit more logic than is due.
Yeah, I thought my clever little autocorrect joke was gonna work a little better than it did.
Meh, how about this: Fuck Colin. He's an idiot.
Better?
Much.
Colin is Max except with a less noisy bark. They still shit everywhere the same.
I am a Ron Paul supporter, you might call me somewhat of a single issues voter as I support and agree with his stand on civil liberties (Economics really isn't my thing.) And in all honesty This issue is prime cannon fodder and must be dealt with definitively. I have said in an e-mail to the campaign, and I will say it here.........The campaign needs to be decisive and definitive and repudiate and denounce what needs to be repudiated and denounced, and reveal what needs to be revealed and admit to what needs to be admitted. I understand the grandfatherly image of Ron Paul, I get it, and I respect it and understand that it buttresses his unwillingness to do anything that seems to be politically underhanded. On those grounds there might be a situation in which this grandfatherly rigidity would be understandable, I might even applaud it. But to me the Freedom Movement/libertarianism is bigger than a single person, and if this is not done it affects the movement at large. Also, there are the news additions to the ranks of supporters who have in the last few months come on board, this could potentially affect them as well. If the more ardent supporters truly believe Ron Paul to be the man they think he is, then no doubt they will be there after such an event takes place. To the ardent detractors, if the issue is laid bare, then there continued harping on the issue seems infantile at best. I stand by the public Ron Paul that I have supported for the last four years, but I feel that this must be done and prefer it to be done as soon as possible.
Knight
Nominating RON PAUL will only ensure Obama a 2nd term.
Re: Lewis H,
You don't know that, and if the choice is between Hillary-in-pants (i.e. Mitt) and Obama, I'm voting Obama - nothing trumps experience.
Hillary is ALREADY in pants.
Pant-suit.
There's a difference.
Hilary has a better jawline
One get tired of hearing the words racist and racism bandied about.
An affinity for one's own race, a preference for one's own race is normal and instinctive for all races and is certainly not racism. Criticism of another race is not racism.
Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in the races and because of these differences, you judge some of the races to be better or less than the other.
Ron Paul's statements in the newsletter may be inflammatory but not racist; and they are only inflammatory because the truth hurts.
At least, you are more honest than Paul.
Though you are just as racist.
Ok number one, I work 9-5. Number 2 I'm a good man with a family. Number 3 Im an Iraq vet. Number 4 I'm tired of you people calling me a paulista and crazy, fringe for suggesting that we elect some one sane, logical and who is going to really look out for me and not corporate welfare and the status quo. Ron Paul doesn't need to give a major speech, you people and your mainstream ideas suck!!!! It's your ideas that caused all this, what part of reality is escaping you f@&?ing fringe stooges? We are fringe for wanting peace and stability? Get real, obvisiouly your phd doesn't mean sh1t. Go find another place to study and bury your lame ideas.
are you anti-war?
You can say fucking here, chris. We're all grownups.
You are a Paulista, and crazy.
And fringe.
Re: Ken Shultz,
In order to believe that it is NOT monolithic you must believe it is NOT monolithic. Your call to disassociate libertarianism from Paul in front of the mainstream implies he's a heretic of some kind, which implies a heresy which implies a monolithic institution from which he is rebeling.
Unless you want to tell me that Paul is no libertarian. Is that what you want to say? It would be like saying Martin Luther was no Christian.
I just received an email from the Paul campaign, with the subject "Hitler mit uns."
Seriously, Paul has set back the cause of liberty for 10 years. For the next decade when someone says "libertarian" people will hear "lying racist scum."
Yeah, and this decade those sorts of folks hear "libertarian" and think "grandmas and children starving in the streets!".
Sorry, that's not spinning my propeller.
Forward me that e-mail, Colin, or post it on this site so we can get some context. I think you're full of fucking shit.
Ron Paul's supporters are sure of one thing: Their candidate has always been consistent?a point Dr. Paul himself has been making with increasing frequency. It's a thought that comes up with a certain inevitability now in those roundtables on the Republican field. One cable commentator genially instructed us last Friday, "You have to give Paul credit for sticking to his beliefs."
He was speaking, it's hardly necessary to say, of a man who holds some noteworthy views in a candidate for the presidency of the United States. One who is the best-known of our homegrown propagandists for our chief enemies in the world. One who has made himself a leading spokesman for, and recycler of, the long and familiar litany of charges that point to the United States as a leading agent of evil and injustice, the militarist victimizer of millions who want only to live in peace.
Enlarge Image
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GOP presidential contender Ron Paul
Hear Dr. Paul on the subject of the 9/11 terror attacks?an event, he assures his audiences, that took place only because of U.S. aggression and military actions. True, we've heard the assertions before. But rarely have we heard in any American political figure such exclusive concern for, and appreciation of, the motives of those who attacked us?and so resounding a silence about the suffering of those thousands that the perpetrators of 9/11 set out so deliberately to kill.
There is among some supporters now drawn to Dr. Paul a tendency to look away from the candidate's reflexive way of assigning the blame for evil?the evil, in particular, of terrorism?to the United States.
One devout libertarian told me recently that candidate Paul "believes in all the things I do about the menace of government control, and he's a defender of the Constitution?I just intend to take what I like about him." The speaker, educated and highly accomplished in his field (music), is a committed internationalist whose views on American power are polar opposites of those his candidate espouses. No matter. Having tuned out all else that candidate has said?with, yes, perfect consistency?it was enough for him that Dr. Paul upheld libertarian values.
This admirer is representative of a fair number of people now flocking to the Paul campaign or thinking of doing so. It may come as a surprise to a few of them that in the event of a successful campaign, a President Paul won't be making decisions based just on the parts of his values that his supporters find endearing. He'd be making decisions about the nation's defense, national security, domestic policy and much else. He'd be the official voice of America?and, in one conspicuous regard, a familiar one.
The world may not be ready for another American president traversing half the globe to apologize for the misdeeds of the nation he had just been elected to lead. Still, it would be hard to find any public figure in America whose views more closely echo those of President Obama on that tour.
Most of Dr. Paul's supporters, of course, don't actually imagine he can become president. Nor do they dwell on the implications of the enlarged influence conferred on him by a few early primary victories (a third-party run is not something he rules out, the ever-consistent Dr. Paul has repeatedly said under questioning).
Related Video
Dorothy Rabinowitz on the blind faith of Ron Paul's devout followers.
A grandfatherly sort who dispenses family cookbooks on the campaign trail, candidate Paul is entirely aware of the value of being liked. He has of late even tried softening the tone of some of his comments on the crime of foreign aid and such, but it doesn't last long. There he was at the debate last Thursday waving his arms, charging that the U.S. was declaring "war on 1.2 billion Muslims," that it "viewed all Muslims as the same." Yes, he allowed, "there are a few radicals"?and then he proceeded to hold forth again on the good reasons terrorists had for mounting attacks on us.
His efforts on behalf of Iran's right to the status of misunderstood victim continued apace. On the Hannity show following the debate, Dr. Paul urged the host to understand that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had never mentioned any intention of wiping Israel off the map. It was all a mistranslation, he explained. What about Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust? A short silence ensued as the candidate stared into space. He moved quickly on to a more secure subject. "They're just defending themselves," he declared.
Presumably he was referring to Iran's wishes for a bomb. It would have been intriguing to hear his answer had he been asked about another Ahmadinejad comment, made more than once?the one in which the Iranian leader declares the U.S. "a Satanic power that will, with God's will, be annihilated."
There can be no confusions about Dr. Paul's own comments about the U.S. After 9/11, he said to students in Iowa, there was "glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq." It takes a profoundly envenomed mindset?one also deeply at odds with reality?to believe and to say publicly that the administration of this nation brought so low with grief and loss after the attack had reacted with glee. There are, to be sure, a number of like-minded citizens around (see the 9/11 Truthers, whose opinions Dr. Paul has said he doesn't share). But we don't expect to find their views in people running for the nation's highest office.
The Paul comment here is worth more than a passing look. It sums up much we have already heard from him. It's the voice of that ideological school whose central doctrine is the proposition that the U.S. is the main cause of misery and terror in the world. The school, for instance, of Barack Obama's former minister famed for his "God d? America" sermons: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, for whom, as for Dr. Paul, the 9/11 terror assault was only a case of victims seeking justice, of "America's chickens coming home to roost."
Some in Iowa are reportedly now taking a look at Dr. Paul, now risen high in the polls there. He has plenty of money for advertising and is using it, and some may throw their support to him, if only as protest votes. He appears to be gaining some supporters in New Hampshire as well. It seemed improbable that the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies could be near the top of the pack in the Iowa contest, but there it is. An interesting status for a candidate of Dr. Paul's persuasion to have achieved, and he'll achieve even more if Iowans choose to give him a victory.
Ya know, lying repeatedly only proves your a liar willing to repeat yourself.
Ron Paul Loves America,
http://www.foreignpolicyjourna.....r-prophet/
Rabinowitz warns that "The world may not be ready for another American president traversing half the globe to apologize for the misdeeds of the nation he had just been elected to lead." It's not clear who she has in mind with the "another", but it's by now a familiar refrain. "I'll never apologize for the United States of America. Ever. I don't care what the facts are," President George H. W. Bush declared to the world after a U.S. warship had shot down an Iranian civilian airliner in Iranian airspace, killing all 290 passengers aboard, including 65 children. Surely, any president willing to apologize for the murder of innocent children must not lead the nation. The horror of the thought!
And then there is Dr. Paul's position with respect to Iran. He recently urged his host in an interview "to understand that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had never mentioned any intention of wiping Israel off the map." Here, again, it's notable that Rabinowitz doesn't actually dispute this. Dr. Paul is, of course, correct. The claim that Iran has threatened to acquire nuclear weapons to "wipe Israel off the map" is a complete fabrication of Western media propaganda, and mainstream corporate news agencies know it is a fabrication, but repeat it obligatorily anyway.
Rabinowitz presumably does, as well, so instead of challenging Dr. Paul on the facts, she quotes him saying "They're just defending themselves" and writing, "Presumably he was referring to Iran's wishes for a bomb." In the interview referred to, Dr. Paul had said, "I don't want them to get the nuclear weapon", but pointed out that Israel's defense minister, "Ehud Barak said that they're acting logically, and they're acting in their self-interest, and if he was an Iranian, he would probably think the same way" (Dr. Paul is correct on this, also; it's true that Barak has "quipped that if he were an Iranian, he would take part in the development of nuclear weapons").
Dorothy Rabinowitz's piece is a poorly reasoned, poorly written propaganda piece.
Were we to hold the WSJ to the standards you are proposing to hold Ron Paul, we should all cancel our subscriptions for the WSJ allowing such a prejudiced biased idiot to take up space in the opinion pages.
Exactly what is it that Dorothy hates about liberty? What is it that she hates about freedom?
What is it that she hates about blacks? Since she supports the drug war which unfairly targets blacks. She support the death penalty which give the state power over life and death, even when it makes mistakes.
She support suspending the Posse Comitas act.
I am struggling to understand how someone with relatives who were put into ovens can be against freedom. She should be the first to lay down her arms. When the anti-Semites come looking for her, she will have only herself to blame. Seriously, how can people who were put into ovens support gun control? The State and nationalism has killed more people than terrorists ever will.
What do you think would happen if Iran were to use or allow terrorists to use a nuclear weapon? What do you think Israel or the USA would do to Iran? The world is full of nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction. When the government starts telling its citizens the truth then it will have earned our support. Until then we are understandably skeptical.
When confidence in the money erodes, it will be a new world. Mass communications is making that day come sooner.
It will be impossible for the government's lies to be believed by the people much longer.
Man, the Kochtopus is powerful! First, they created the Tea Party with their funding and other miscellaneous support, and now, they've started the conspiracy to knock Paul out of the race. This is all so they can get their boy (non-teapartier) Romney in power, who is really just a highly sophisticated robot...or not so sophisticated, but he'll do. Once in power, RomneyKoch will travel back in time to assassinate Murray Rothbard while he was still a struggling grad student, nipping the Rothbardian branch of libertarianism in the bud.
"Once in power, RomneyKoch will travel back in time to assassinate Murray Rothbard while he was still a struggling grad student, nipping the Rothbardian branch of libertarianism in the bud."
THERE it is! I *knew* there was a key to understanding the conspiracy!
It all make sense now!
It's almost the new year, so the Kochtopus has finally decided to.....Release the Kraken!!!.....strangely this Kraken bears an uncanny likeness to a certain frontrunning Republican.
And I'm sure you know the Kochs met with Hitler and Nixon in Paraguay in '56! But I'll bet you didn't know Elvis' alien love-child was at the meeting!
See how it all fits together?
Ron Paul is the only candidate fighting the racism of the drug war.
Your argument is silly.
The Wall Street Journal, New York Times and every publication in the world has folks who write things that are offensive, wrong, racist, sexist or prejudiced. We do not hold the entire publication responsible for the contributory writings of some of the idiots.
It is called the First Amendment. If you don't like it, live somewhere else.
Eric
We've become a people undeserving of our own Constitution. While our rights are being trampled, we allow ourselves to get distracted by every shiny thing the media throws in front of us. It'll only be Romney backed by Goldman Sachs or Obama backed by Goldman Sachs to choose from this November. Choose your plutocrat.
AmeriCo: Land of the Free! (trademarked)
We the Corporations of the United States, in Order to form a more profitable Union...
Ron Paul is one of our generations biggest activist for civil rights, and to call him a racist because of things that were printed in his name 20+ years ago, its like me texting on someone else is phone. You think he did it but he didn't. this is the ONLY thing the media has on him and its nothing new. the media is in a panic because this man will end corruption in washington and they are trying their hardest to stop that from happening.
Ron Paul campaigns against the defining civil liberties of our time. He is pro-life, supported doma, is against gay people adopting kids, and has his zombie followers convinced allowing people to do drugs, and becoming an unsafe isolationist country is somehow a freedom fighter's move. Ron Paul is a coward, that's why he can't come clean about his hate-mongering racist newsletters. His followers are paranoid fringe racists, or peacenik weed smokers who think he could actually legalize drugs. He's a mirage, 100% unelectable.
Re: leosoupedup,
But you're no paranoid and hater, right leo?
the disingenuous media inject "ISMS" (labels) into political discourse for the purpose of confusing and dividing us. anyone who attaches the slightest importance to any of these "ISMS" - is too STUPID to support Ron Paul in the first place. so this whole "issue" is irrelevant - and Ron Paul is correct in dismissing it - graciously or otherwise - as circumstances dictate.
charles ranalli
albuquerque
I'll posit a scenario and you tell me what would likely happen:
Let's say that, when the time comes to choose one, Paul chooses Gary as a running mate and Gary accepts. Let's posit that.
In WHAT position would that leave Reason? Would Reason disavow Gary? Would it continue with the newsletter thing? Or will they do an about-face and suddenly discover just how lovable and cuddly is Paul?
What do you think?
We should also then spend an equal time positing on what would be the reaction if a herd of unicorns were loosed on Central Park.
Do you really think it is that unlikely, Lewis???
http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/
What does it say on the lower right corner?
Gary who?
I smell a sitcom!
OM,
I'm not seeing any anti-RP in Reason's reporting.
The issue is out there and Reason is doing nothing other than reporting on the issue, and suggesting ways to defuse it. And I agree.
I think GJ is the better choice of the two, but RP is definitely better than any alternative the GOP is offering, and it's a lock that Obama is going to be the Dem candidate.
You don't get it, Sevo. Even mentioning the fact that the MSM considers it a controversy is tantamount to supporting fascism!
"I think this looks bad to most people and Ron Paul should handle it differently." = "I hate Ron Paul and am part of a conspiracy to try and smear and completely discredit him."
Yep, those two sentiments are completely, 100% analogous.
Re:Sevo,
You've got to be kidding me:
"Observe, for example, CNN's poor Gloria Borger's apologetic tone when Paul terminated the interview with her."
Ahem... What?
Or:
" Paul also maintained his connection with the Mises Institute, which has itself had numerous connections with all kinds of unsavory folks: more racists, anti-Semites, Holocaust deniers."
Excuse me? The Mises institute?
I'm sorry, but this piece reminds me of the pastor that accuses some woman in public of being a whore and then telling everybody how he can save her.
I'm sorry, but this piece reminds me of the pastor that accuses some woman in public of being a whore and then telling everybody how he can save her.
And where would this woman be that you are referring to?
Re: Sloopyinca,
In a birth control store, of course.
"You've got to be kidding me:
"Observe, for example, CNN's poor Gloria Borger's apologetic tone when Paul terminated the interview with her."
Ahem... What?"
Uh, she *was* apologetic. Or defensive.
-------------
"" Paul also maintained his connection with the Mises Institute, which has itself had numerous connections with all kinds of unsavory folks: more racists, anti-Semites, Holocaust deniers."
Excuse me? The Mises institute?"
That was quoting Horowitz, not a statement by or from Reason.
Re: Sevo,
Read Dalmia's implication: That she was in an apologetic mood because, after all, she's "just doing her job," while nasty old Paul almost throws the mike on this poor working woman's face and storms out stepping on people!
The noive of that goi!
"Read Dalmia's *implication*"
Uh, I'm afraid you read too much 'implication'.
Re: Sevo,
I don't think so:
Uh... Why would that be? They totally IGNORED Obama's relationship with Ayers and Wright and the fact that the Greatest Literary Genius Of All Time probably didn't write his two books. Why would they SUDDENLY have an epiphany about their duty?? Oh, why Dalmia?
Huffily. Oh, that man of little patience!!! He was just one inch from biting that poor woman's head off!!!
Paul Begala is more pro-Ron Paul than Reason
I've read a few of the pieces pertaining to this issue from Nick Gillespie and Matt Welch and I agree, they hardly seem to be anti-Ron Paul.
Knight
No, but this one by Shika sure is.
Re: Knight,
Say whaaaaat?
http://reason.com/blog/2011/12.....g-away-but
Hint: They don't call blacks animals. This is an obvious lie. It says that the rioters [LA riots of 1992] acted like animals - which they did. Civilized people don't rampage. But the innuendo from Nick is clear.
This was another lie. In fact, one can suspect something fishy just by the clear discontinuity in the original showing of the interview which had two clear (and badly done) edits.
Nick is quoting from The Atlantic's Conor Friedersdorf, but clearly keeps the meme that the newsletters were ubiquitous in the racism, which they were not. Exaggeration is STILL a form of lying.
"They don't call blacks animals. This is an obvious lie. It says that the rioters [LA riots of 1992] acted like animals"
Splitting hairs. Look, I like Paul, too, and hopefully will get a chance to vote for him. But I see no need to bend over backwards to canonize him or the person who wrote the newsletters. Paul made a mistake in judgement at least in not monitoring something written under his name. Why is it so hard to see he is fallible like the rest of us?
Basing "an advice to Ron Paul" post off a Steve Horwitz piece at a self-described progressive left-libertarian site is pure trolling by the editor(s).
Yawn. I could care less about 20 year old newsletters. Time to move on.....
Ron Paul is not a viable GOP candidate because like it or not, most GOP voters are not libertarians. This is not going to change.
Why do you keep pinning libertarian hopes on a non-libertarian Party? Might as well try to run a libertarian candidate as a marxist-leninist.
Re: Lewis H,
Not NOW, of course. But anybody can register as a Republican, Lewis.
Most Republicans aren't Northeastern establishment progressive centrist RINOs either, but hey, that didn't stop Mitt Romney !
Anoter media caring about lies and not caring about the new SOPA or NDAA legislation. Thanks for not caring about your readers and choosing to see us locked up in FEMA CAMPS. This whole article is discredited, read how CNN set this all up in the idependant paper people. Do not believe these liars.
Are you talking about the NDAA vote that Ron Paul decided to not even show up to? The NDAA bill that had twice as many Republicans vote for it as Democrats? The NDAA bill that Ron Paul made sure to write a blog about, but was too busy to take a definitive "No" against? That's Paul's true colors. Just like his stance on Earmarks, which are unconstitutional, unless they are for HIS constituents.
Re: leosoupedup,
Running a fucking campaign is not busy enough for you, you sack of cat doodoo?
Off topic: It may seem a bit long, but I want everybody to watch this video. Some of the best animation you will ever see, and all done with a pencil and pad of paper.
omg, I remember seeing these before, but not on the internet. I wish I remembered where.
I used to have this on videotape back in the day. A few friends and I would watch it every night when we got home from the bar. Then we would either watch The Dude, Ash or car RamRod.
Pfft, I make better flip-book animations than that with my poop and some construction paper.
You make flip-book animations with your own poop? A true libertarian fringe-media artist would have a legion of immigrant children pooping solely for their artwork.
And to top it off, you're married to a Chinese woman, meaning you must have a knowledge of people-smuggling, since that's how all Chinese women get to the states, right?
For the love of GOD and all that is holy: MY ANUS IS BLEEDING!!11!!1 MY ANUS IS BLEEDING!1!!!!!
That was pretty disturbing...
The pro-Israel crowd are really trying to take him down. Ron Paul did not walk out of the interview with Burger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
There is no "Right Way" to respond to being called a witch (racist) when the pitchfork-wielding mob (media) will twist any answer to meet their narrative. Witness the full video of Paul "storming out" of an ambush interview that was edited to make him appear more defensive and guilty. His straight-forward answers simply were not inflammatory enough to satisfy their need to vilify him.
Ron Paul taking advice from reason would make about as much sense as Obama taking advice from Bill O'Reilly.
Bill O'Reilly probably has offered Obama serious, useful advice.
Ron Paul is the only one seeking office who want's to stop bombing and killing brown people... He want's to end all wars including the drug war...Think about that!
He also wants to end economic regulations that lock minorities into poverty.
Will Ron Paul end big-government land enTITLEments that enforce artificial borders and restrict the free movement of brown people to live a Non-State lifeway?
Officer, am I free to gambol about plain and forest?
Re: White Imbecile,
You mean you want to break into people's houses, right?
You mean, you city-STATISTS are damn well are going to keep what you invaded and occupied.
ReL White Imbecile who would cry like a little girl while being chased by my guard Rottweiler,
Yep, you just want to break into people's homes. You are certainly invited to try... He he he
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jURuXjjJ8
Ron Paul a lying racist bag of shit. Think about that.
Ron Paul is racist?
The same Ron Paul that delivered black children in segregated Texas?
The Same Ron Paul that voted for the MLK holiday?
The Same Ron Paul who Idolizes Rosa Parks as a hero?
Totally Racist, seems 100% Legit.
Re: D & D,
No, no, you don't understand! He's pro-life, therefore: He must be destroyed!!
The same lying piece of shit Ron Paul who published and made lots of cash from a disgusting racist rag.
It wasn't racist, Yip Yap. But you probably are.
This article makes the same mistake Paul followers make: Paul is 100% responsible for printing and making money for his newsletters. Ron Paul & Associates printed them, with his family listed as the owners and operators. He is 100% racist to flirt with racism even to get votes. He can't deflect it, and even thinking he can is pathetic. HIS POLICIES are the most bigoted thing about him, and he can't even come CLOSE to true libertarianism. Pro-Life? Supported DOMA? Against Gay couples adopting? (How much more nanny state can you get??) He only believes that you should be "above rules" if you are a rich, white business owner. If you are a woman, or gay you don't count. Plus his idea to "end the drug war" is terribly flawed and doesn't count towards his defense against racist claims at all. How can it not be considered that 1. he can't by presidential power alone legalize any drugs, 2. If he did legalize all drugs, and end public education, now poor people pay for their own school, and heroin is legal? GOOD LUCK! Don't forget his military policy is horrible for the USA, and we'd all be dead before the end of his first term. IRAN PAUL should be considered the worst, most dangerous, candidate running.
Re: leosouped up,
But wanting to bomb brown people - that's not racist, right?
"IRAN PAUL should be considered the worst, most dangerous, candidate running."
Gee, most of your post was only somewhat whacko, and then you tossed in this.
I don't know... there was a sort of impressive single-mindedness to the blistering illogic.
Another option would be simply to be OK with racists. Can't racists and non-racists agree on anything and work together? You're writing like they're the scourge of humanity.
You're writing like they're the scourge of humanity.
Well, they're certainly not the cream of the crop.
Can't racists and non-racists...work together?
No. I won't force anyone to get along with anyone else (ala the Civil Rights Act, forcing people to serve customers they may not want to), but I personally damn sure will not socialize with or do business with racists. Nor will I tolerate it in my home.
Do you have that attitude about everything you disagree with?
Re: Robert,
That would be too much the ideological libertarian stance, Rob, and that is simply too much for the utilitarian/expedient crowd at Reason mag.
Um, no offense, but wouldn't the ideologically libertarian stance be to let people work with whom they wish, without coercion? I personally will not do so with racists, which negates what the OP is saying.
Re:Gojira,
You would agree that racists are equally benefited by liberty than non-racists, wouldn't you? And if having to do so, joining forces to achieve this liberty would be the better choice, wouldn't it be?
Because it would be quite ill advised to exclude people from manning the ramparts sorely on their racial preferences, G.
"Another option would be simply to be OK with racists."
Um, no.
She left out the option of dismissing the whole issue as being on par with the jeremiah wright/ birth certificate controversies because thats about how important it is...at best.
If they were willing to live and let live, why not? Sadly, most racists are rather unwilling to do that because they believe that the mere existence of those they don't like is an infringement against their rights - and that punishment for violating the persons and property of the disliked ones is oppression. I don't think it's possible.
That's not true of the racists I know.
Don't you know people who, say, are revolted by people of certain races but have no intention of oppressing them, just of avoiding them?
Yes, Robert. I know plenty of people like that. And I don't associate with them if I can help it.
Re: sloopyinca,
Nobody is asking anybody to associate with people you don't like, S. However, the charge of "racism" is easily thrown by people as a way to silence dissent. People may harbor feelings based on misguided collectivist thoughts, but that does not mean they deserve to totally be expunged from a fight that concerns them as well. You can have racist libertarians, as long as they do not force their racism on others. But to totally place them on the fringes is actually counterproductive, as liberty has the virtue of cleansing people's minds from bad ideas. Why would any of us not want to have a free society where individuals can show other individuals the virtues of hard work and talent, instead of focusing on race? I am willing to fight for such a society - I wonder if Ms. Dalmia does, though.
I am willing to fight for such a society - I wonder if Ms. Dalmia does, though.
As am I, OM. I've just had bad experiences with racism in my life. It almost tore my family apart, and I can't tolerate anybody that treats people differently (collectivist is probably a better word choice) because of the color of their skin.
But in the same vein, there are many disgusting things people say, and I will fight for their right to say them.
Of course. But the ones I know are only that way because that's all they can do. Maybe if they had the capability to do so would their intentions change?
To be fair, a good solution would be radical devolvement of government as libertarians suggest. I think that it would create an unhealthy amount of tribalism rather than recognition of individuality.
"I think that it would create an unhealthy amount of tribalism rather than recognition of individuality."
And you think government promotes individuality? Ever hear of 'identity politics'?
Sarcasm or stupidity? Given the screen-name, stupidity.
Why do we have "identity politics"? What purpose would it serve if people were, by custom and law, treated decently, left alone and judged as individuals?
Government can promote individuality, and can do it negatively simply by not singling out groups for second-class treatment.
ugly, racist, and homophobic
Standard outrage noted.
Are you working with the CDC, FBI and DOJ to get them to take the homophobic and racist statistics off their websites?
Why is he supposed to make a speech about events 20 years ago which has been dealt with at the time, and moved on?
Well, off to the club to try and win free Rammstein tix that they're giving away every half hour. Wish me luck, assholes! And a MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!
Merry Christmas, G!
Does the club require monocles?
It's Jim, so I'd guess buttplugs.
[scurries back into hole]
How come every time this newsletter shit comes up, reason staff only ever cite the opinions of Paul bashers like Horwitz?
This article appears to be a dumbed-down version of Conor Friedersdorf's recent piece in The Atlantic:
http://www.theatlantic.com/pol.....rs/250206/
Is it wrong to post this on Christmas?
Not if it's you, Banjos.
And here's a little Christmas cheer your way.
And eckchay uoryay emailjay.
And since you love ska, enjoy this song for a few more hours.
Or, The Selecter.
And The Maytals with Christmas Feeling Ska.
lol, someone is making up for missing a few music posting nights
I am always in the mood for some ska.
Where does this fall on the spectrum?
Why it is the heavy heavy monster sound, the nuttiest sound around.
Top THIS sloopy
Beach Blanket Bongout!
Embarassing.
Well, this is embarrassing.
I suddenly want you to die, SIV.
You could have at least played Pineapple Princess, you heartless bastard.
It's Skinhead time!!!
And it's always the right time for Laura Lee.
Awesome surf band that I used to hang out with, I need to find out what the hell they have been up to.
Talk is cheap.
Nice, Cleetus.
There really isn't a right time for this, so why not?
I've had my coachboy Raoul examining this thread and he's disappointed in all of you.
Shikha,
This is how Ron Paul's supporters are going to respond this week;
"Newsletter Scandal Points to Gingrich", The covert operators are; Iowa Gov. Branstad, Gloria Borger & Husband Lance Morgan
http://www.dailypaul.com/19616.....o-gingrich
"James Kirchick Orchestrated the Everything Behind the Scenes"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7643.....er-Scandal
Shikha, If you had put a few minutes into connecting the dots of all those who went on talk shows within minutes of the CNN video release, you would have quickley seen the long history Gingrich has of dirty tricks using these same operatives over decades.
Ron Paul is a threat to special interests who have been robbing Americans blind for 30 years. All with the help of people like Gingrich.
Indeed, I agree with the author. I am a Ron Paul fanatic, tried and true, however, as the game steps up, Paul is subject to greater scrutiny, as a presidential candidate should be.
Political speech has never been Paul's strong suit, nor should it be, but he must address these issues directly and head on in his direct and frank style.
Whatever the roots and perspective he has on this issue, he must be forthright about it and let the voters decide, lest it become a full-fledged media frenzy. Paul has an issue with media coverage, but the last thing any of us want is a witch-hunt.
People will listen to whomever is speaking; I'd rather it be Paul than his detractors.
This is a brilliant op-ed! The writer,Shikha Dalmia, is vastly more superior than most writers. With her arsenal of vocabulary and rhetoric, we are led down a path that espouses truth and honor. She, a native of India, whom is now an American-Indian, has shown all Americans what the search for truth looks like. Just like a prosecutor in our judicial system that triumphs over all forces of evil, Shikh is telling us the truth! She knows the way, just as Jesus did! Never mind that the title to her article does not address 99% of the content of said article. Never mind that she does not present both sides of the case. She does not have to: she is a prosecutor and her main witness, Steve Horowitz, does a beautiful job of explaining the merits of her case. Real writing, true writing, the kind of writing that earns one a Bastiat Prize is this article!! This is the kind of writing that bridges all walks of religion together. In fact, I am going to walk over to a mosque right now and burn the Koran and put this article in the hands of every Muslim, then I am going to go to the Vatican, kill the Pope and put her article in the hands of every Catholic, (Wait I'm not done yet.) Next, I am going to the synagogues and tell the Jews that this article will help them accept the Palestinians. Finally, I'll triumphantly waltz into the UN Headquarters, with this article enshrined in Level V bullet proof glass, and proclaim to the world that Shikha Dalmia has found the way to unite the East with the West! She has found a way, with her scandalous tone lacking equality but rich in prosecutorial errant free truth, to show us ignoramuses the way to Neo-Enlightenment.
Over-the-Top comes to mind.
No, really!
Over-the-Top comes to mind.
When Lincoln Hawk puts his hat on backwards and saves his son from that dickhead, Robert Loggia?
Sweet!
Another chance for Reason to bash Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell... shocker...
Anarcho-Capitalists are the True Libertarians, and Reason are nothing more but Conservative leaning Statists.
"Anarcho-Capitalists are the True Libertarians, and Reason are nothing more but Conservative leaning Statists."
Tell us about true Scotsmen; I'm dying to hear.
Da, comrade.
Anarcho-primitivists, promoting a real 2,000,000 year proven Non-State sociopolitical typology, are the only non-contradictory anarchists.
Anarcho-primitivists, promoting but not practicing a real an unsubstantiated 2,000,000 year unproven Non-State sociopolitical typology, are the only non-contradictory anarchists asshats.
FIFY, loser.
JINX!
Also, Merry Christmas, even though you are a fucking Buckeye *shudder*
Slainte!
And cheers to you, my brother from that state up north.*
My good cheer toward things from that shithole you call home the great state of Michigan will last for another 3 hours and 38 minutes. Enjoy!
Backatcha brother! Pax!
Yes, Gamboling Injun, there are SO many "proven" AP societies over...2M years. You've listed so many over the months. Let's recount them all....
*crickets*
You're good for nothing if not the lulz. Thanks for ruining another thread.
You're as fucking stupid as the people who think the Rapture is just around the corner.
Oh wait, the majority of you nut-job Libertards do.
Whodathunkit?
Re: White Imbecile who really thinks the Sinai was a lush oak forest,
Who know what starvation feels like...
Nanny City-Statists like Old Poodle hate their destructive ways being exposed. That's the way city-Statists roll.
Even the Sinai which is located to the Southeast and the Negev, East of the present state of Israel, bear evidence of past, perhaps abundant forests. The 1960 investigations of Sir William Flinders Petrie into mining operations in the Wadi Nash area of the western Sinai desert, believed to date from the third millennium, BC, yielded unmistakable clues:
"(Petrie) found a bed of wood ashes 100 feet long, 50 feet wide and 18 inches deep, and also a slag dump from copper smelting, 6-8 feet deep, 500 feet long and 300 feet wide. It seems that the adjacent area, now desert, must have borne combustibles during the period when the mines were operating. Similarly, in the Negev, copper smelting kilns of a highly developed kind dating from 1000 BC have been found in the now quite desert-like Wadhi Araba."
Man and the Mediterranean Forest: A history of resource depletion. J. V. Thirgood. Academic Press. 1961. p. 52.
Re: White Imbecile who is, besides like a little girl when crying, extremely gullible,
It's the Wadi Nasb area, you stupid fool. You can't even copy correctly.
And there's no mention of oaks or anything, only of ashes, which could have any origin, especially considering the Sinai is surrounded by navigable waters.
You must think you're so clever, but you would cry like a little girl at the sight of coyotes stealing your food.
Waa waa waa
One letter off = "...you stupid fool. You can't even copy correctly."
LOL
oh sweet fucking jesus, domesticated poodles and their antics!
LOLOL
Ashes...think those came from trees? Weren't you saying that was impossible?
LOLOL
What's that piss on your tail, anyway?
Now you're just being rude
Rude? You wanna talk rude?
Reason will not be content until Ron Paul explodes in front of a live television audience.
May the good Lord take a likin' to ya and blow ya up real soon.
Merry Christmas, Reasonoids!
Can't wait for the playoffs to start, now that the Leos have secured their spot with the beatdown of the Chargers yesterday.
Speaking of the playoffs...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk
FUCK! It works, but let's see if I can do a little better than copy 'n' paste...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk
Bankshot!
Oh noes!!! Skinheads dem a come!
BOB SAGET!
SHIT!
BOB SAGET!!
Oh, just post the fucking link.
SHIT! SHIT!
Libertarians, promoting but not practicing an unsubstantiated, unproven voluntary city-Statism, are asshats.
I learned that here on Reason.
Re: White Imbecile cries so much like a little girl he can't make valid arguments,
Wow, nice comeback there, Bub!
Let's all skank, or if you are not in the mood, pogo.
I asked this last night but fear it was too late to get an answer.
Do they show mantracker in the US?
Looks like it's on The Science Channel.
Same show?
You can't outrun a horse.
Sorry, Pants, I have no idea. I dumped my cable over three years ago. I don't have a converter box, so I don't even have local television. All my tv comes from Netlifx and Hulu.
Contrarian P,
"Nice way to change the subject when you're beaten. You basically completely failed to address any of the salient points, choosing instead to obfuscate the issue by switching to some other topic."
Vermin shit is not open to logic. Vermin shit has been peddling this nonsense for several months and pointing out the failures in vermin shit's claims only gets more stink from vermin shit.
Vermin shit is *not* a rational human being. It has been hypothesized that vermin shit is yet one more sock of a brainless twit known as Rather; I'm not sure.
What is obvious is that pointing out the flaws in vermin shit's supposed 'logic' gets only more smelly posts from vermin shit.
What is further obvious is that as fewer posters respond to vermin shit, vermin shit's posts have reduced in number in a pretty direct relationship; if vermin shit gets no response, vermin shit has nothing to counter-respond.
Over all, except for OM who can't seem to control himself, the general non-response approach seems to be proving successful.
"Over all, except for OM..."
Ooops, and some others who should know better.
But Happy Holidays to you folks anyhow.
After reading the racist apologist bullshit in the thread above. I would have to say the Paultards are forever going to smear libertarianism with racism.
I think it's that there are libertarians out there who still believe in elections and politicians as a force for positive change.
It's very hard to try to get people to see that politicians aren't the solution to their problems--even some libertarians.
I think that's why you see this big emotional reaction. I guess it's an attractive thought to some people that the world would sort itself out if we all just voted for the right politicians.
Either that or there's something hard-wired into some people that makes them really want to believe that someone's gonna save them.
Re: Ken Shultz,
The solutions to MY problems is ME. The solution to bloated government has to come from courageous politicians backed by people willing to make the changes required, unless you want to tell me you have powder, shot, wadding, knapped flints and musket on the ready.
That's right. It'd be nice if the government stayed the hell out of the way, but Ken is the solution to Ken's problems.
The political solution is convincing our fellow Americans that politicians aren't the solution to their problems.
Being a politician, Ron Paul isn't the solution to our political problems either. ...and being a libertarian politician doesn't change that equation in the least.
So, everybody that thinks Ron Paul is the solution to our political problems?
Is dead wrong on the most important point. The solution is persuading our fellow Americans--not voting for some politician.
I think you are being played, OM. That can't be Ken. There are only lines of type.
only nine lines of type. stupid nog. holding steady though.
Re: Cabeza de Vaca,
After reading the broken sentence above. I would have to say the anti-Paul idiots are forever going to smear blogs with bad grammar.
Come on man, get with it. And build yourself a garbage pit.
Sorry OM, that was not meant for you.
Actually, come to think of it, it works.
Now comes the big split amongst the philosophical elitists of our time. Get ready for the " my libertarianism is better than yours" tit-for-tat amongst the Internet trolls. I love how several people are already fully engaged in defining different forms of libertarianism.......well hate to burst your bubble but "libertarian" as defined by Americans has nothing to do with libertarianism as defined by the rest of the world, and in a state with the ideology as deep as the U.S. you all get away with calling things socialist and libertarian when you have clearly redefined what that word means in your culture and really don't have an understanding of them. With that said, American libertarianism is what it is...... An economic theory not based in math, accounting or accountability that even remotely takes into account the fact that an infinite growth paradigm in a world of finite resources is not sustainable. Most abhorrent of all, it is based on moralizing greed and selfishness. You can pretend there is some invisible rift between American libertarians in an attempt to distance yourself from your leaders disgusting ideology, but you should all call yourselves what you are. Paleo-conservatives. The rest of us call you all just that.
Let the trolling resume.
Re: Economics ignoramus,
Economics is not accounting, you ignorant snot.
You must be one of those idiots who thinks people don't have to make choices based on scarcity. Your lack of knowledge or even common sense is entirely YOUR problem.
Just because of the fact that you showed a total lack of understanding of the subject you pretend to talk about, your post is not worth the electrons is printed on.
Brilliant rebuttal.
Got me a bite.
With that said, American libertarianism is what it is...... An economic theory not based in math, accounting or accountability that even remotely takes into account the fact that an infinite growth paradigm in a world of finite resources is not sustainable.
I have no idea how you got the idea that a philosophical preference for freedom means any of the bilge you spewed there.
Did his post sting? The "invisible hand" is philosophy not freedom......seriously all I see is a pack of pseudo-intellectuals who don't understand their own philosophy or economics. This joker above saying accounting is not part of economics? No not in your economy because it runs of PHILOSOPHY. Great post "calling it out", you fight like a butterfly and sting like the truth.
Did his post sting? The "invisible hand" is philosophy not freedom......seriously all I see is a pack of pseudo-intellectuals who don't understand their own philosophy or economics. This joker above saying accounting is not part of economics? No not in your economy because it runs of PHILOSOPHY. Great post "calling it out", you fight like a butterfly and sting like the truth.
Trolled by the best.
Paul's "meteoric rise?" If you ask me, Paul have seen a slow and steady rise.
I do remember Rothbard taking a hard right turn for a while there. I would like to have been a fly on the wall during those discussions to see what role Paul might have played in adopting this strange strategy. One thing that continues to bother me is Paul's lack of interest in determining who wrote the comments in question. If I had a stand-in editor for some newsletter I was the nominal publisher of and the content became genuinely disturbing and antithetical to my own values, I would be ripped about it and demand to know who had penned the offending remarks so I could fire them.
Re: Jim McClarin,
Just like George Foreman's lack of interest in the translations of the manuals of the electric grill that bears his name tells a lot about that man's lack of judgment.... Right?
Old Mexican = pro troll
poo poo poodle.
Watch out, he really yaps about keeping the dearies safe in city-Statism.
Worst analogy of the year!
His lack of interest probably stems from his character. Obama had no trouble throwing Wright under the bus, sure, but Paul is no Obama. He isn't going "out" a friend to make his own life easier, especially since these newsletters were part of a strategic political fusion effort and the actual author was likely no more racist than Paul. Also remember Paul is 76 years old. A good many of Rothbard's political circle, including Rothbard himself, are dead.
So, I've been away. Any new lines of defense for that lying racist bag of shit Ron Paul?
Dun dun duuuuuun! PREPARE TO BE TROLLED!!! I will be flying in my new roflcopter I got for Xmas watching with the anticipation of a pre-pubescent libertarian awaiting socialist gifts from Santa Claus!
Dun dun duuuuuun! PREPARE TO BE TROLLED!!! I will be flying in my new roflcopter I got for Xmas watching with the anticipation of a pre-pubescent libertarian awaiting socialist gifts from Santa Claus!
It's what got us 3 dog-catcher officals in 50 years.
that's you, foo
Mortimer Duke: Do you really believe I would have a nigger run our family business, Randolph?
Duck Soup is on TCM.
Groucho Marx: Now that's a president.
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted [a white supremacist group], isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
That is ridiculous. Let's see ...
Even if Barack had never intentionally courted the NAACP (say), or the Teamsters, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?
In short, people should worry a lot less about what "they" think and a lot more about what they themselves think.
You think the NAACP and the teamsters are an equivalent to white supremacist groups?
Wow.
You think Binky thinks the NAACP and the teamsters are an equivalent to white supremacist groups? Way to miss the point.
It is fun to take things out of context.
Dear Reason Commentariat:
It's all your fault.
You didn't donate enough in the webathon.
Reason is paying the bills the only way it knows how.
Ron Paul holiday weekend threads.
[starts zipping pants back up and pulling belt back in place]
Oh. I thought you meant the other way.
And to top off overly offensive things to post on Christmas. Goodnight, Reason.
You're not even trying!
Ron Paul was right again!
Israel Caught Selling 69 US Patriot Missiles to Red China!
http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=90696
Here, libertpoid assholes, read what that racist cock sucker Ron Paul made cash on:
http://www.tnr.com/print/artic.....newsletter
What's wrong with it, Yip Yap? Whasamatta - truth hurt?
My response to the LA Riots makes the newsletter writer look like fucking Ghandi
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
bull-shit three ring cirrrrcus siiiideshow of
Freaks here in this, hopeless fucking, hole we call LA.
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time.
Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.
It's a bull-shit three ring cirrrrrcuus siiideshow of
freaks here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA.
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time.
Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.
Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will
I sure could use a vacation from this
stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit...
One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.
(Learn to swim. 3x)
Mom's gonna fix it all soon.
Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to beeeeeeeee.
(Learn to swim. 8x)
Fuck L Ron Hubbard and Fuck all his clones.
Fuck all these gun-toting Hip gangster wannabes.
(Learn to swim. 8x)
Fuck retro anything. Fuck your tattoos.
Fuck all you junkies and Fuck your short memory.
(Learn to swim. 8x)
Fuck smiley glad-hands with hidden agendas.
Fuck these dysfunctional, insecure actresses.
(Learn to swim. 8x)
Cuz I'm praying for rain
and I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all awaaaaaaaaay.
Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.
I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.
I wanna see it come down.
(Suck it down. 2x)
Flush it down.
can some one tell me what essay Murray Rothbard said "Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, ... unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares?" B/c I have yet to find it
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html
4. Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals ? robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability when they are in error.
Note the part that was missing. Not an accident. I've been reading Rothbard since '99 on the recommendation of Joe Sobran in the National Review of all places where Joe said Rothbard makes Ayn Rand look like a Tory in comparison.
Rothbard can still shock the hell out of me, even with my experience with his text. I don't agree with some of his ideas in that very text concerning making compromises with social conservatives in order to advance the agenda. If any teacher tried to make my kid bow before their God I'd shoot 'em between the eyes. I don't believe myself to be exaggerating there, but that is how i feel. So, no compromise as Rothbard suggest.
Still, some people take the position if they don't agree with a point of view there must be moral turpitude involved on the other's part. It is what we have been taught. You have to be broader minded than that when you come at Rothbard. His world view is not yours. He is a warm peat bog single malt in a world of ultra-lite over ice.
Correction -- '89. the lengths my mind goes to to block out that decade.
Note he also talks about ending racial quotas and benefits, like affirmative action, as well as slashing welfare. I bet Reason followers think that is just more proof he is a racist, right? Because, from reading that article, the 8 point "right wing populism" mentions race on only one point - and that point is to end affirmative action/racial quotas, which is hardly a racist idea, unless Reason has all of a sudden moved to support Obama.
"If any teacher tried to make my kid bow before their God I'd shoot 'em between the eyes." I'm not of the impression that even social conservatives want that. From my understanding, as an ex-social-conservative, they want VOLUNTARY school prayer - which I can see the problem with, as I once got in trouble with my teachers for silently praying before a test (or - gasp! - reading the Bible after I finished!). And, curses be to Rothbard, he dared suggest compromising on legalization issues by returning power to the states and sorting it out there!
And, curses be to Rothbard, he dared suggest compromising on legalization issues by returning power to the states and sorting it out there!
Rothbard is getting away from a purely ancap view there and into the area of strict constitutionalism. Certainly, that is the lesser evil, or the evil of two lessers, both being forms of statism -- megacentralism and petty local control through majoritarianism still rely on bullying. As did prayer in school back in the day. Kids didn't have a choice and parents had to sue for what should have been their right of refusal to submit without questions being raised in the first place.
I've no desire to see that day return; hence, I would be justified to use force to keep it that way if another party initiated force by making my kid pray. You may argue that was then, but now the shoe is on the foot and the religious are being repressed, but I've been given reason to think that is not entirely the case. From this post in the thread just below this one I get the impression forced religious assembly continues to this day:
Agammamon|12.24.11 @ 4:30PM|#
I can kind of understand why, the religion stuff gets pushed pretty hard sometimes. I spent a good portion of the last 20 years having to listen to "evening prayer" while serving in the Navy and even at my retirement ceremony I got stuck with the chaplain doing and invocation and benediction because it might insult some of the people attending.
People I didn't want attending a ceremony I didn't want but was ordered to have mind you.
And, curses be to Rothbard, he dared suggest compromising on legalization issues by returning power to the states and sorting it out there!
Also, it needs to be noted, that Rothbard was THE advocate of Anarcho-Capitalism. For him to go off the reservation like that is no small matter. It is a very big deal for us who are more ancap than minarchist.
Here is the second part that part of the quote you gave was in.
5. Take Back the Streets: Get Rid of the Bums. Again: unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear, that is, move from the ranks of the petted and cosseted bum class to the ranks of the productive members of society.
After reading more of the newsletters, I think Ron Paul is a fucking white supremecist neo-nazi piece of shit.
Max is here. Hey, everybody, it's Max! How ya' doin', Max?
I'm retarded, thank you for asking.
What newsletter are they talking about?
On the 1st day of Christmas Shikha Dalmia gave to me, a one thousand comment clusterfuck.
One man's clusterfuck another man's time capsule
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD9q7zFaDYY
So, I suppose, Paul should say something like this:
"Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. [...] The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees ? while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."
Oh, wait. That is a quote from.... Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)! http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul68.html (I link this, knowing of course, that most of you bigoted morons won't read it because of a false view of Rockwell.)
It seems to me far more likely that the folks at Reason are upset that Paul is the one to lead people to libertarian views, especially with the minorities most susceptible to falling for a false charge of racism (i.e. those still sadly stuck on the ballot plantation of the Left).
"Or it can demand accountability from Paul"
Good luck with that demand.
I read an old Reason article about this not long ago that established pretty convincingly that Ron Paul is the only person of prominence in the libertarian movement who isn't aware that Lew Rockwell was the editor for these newsletters.
It's been 15 years and he won't admit he does know who wrote this over at least a decade for his million dollars revenue a year company.
Accountability doesn't work with fundamentally dishonest people.
Meanwhile, the part where Ron Paul deserves to be drummed out of the realm of sensible debate not because he's racist, but because his judgement is so poor he let Lew Rockwell pen articles in his name still goes unmentioned.
Meanwhile, the part where Ron Paul deserves to be drummed out of the realm of sensible debate not because he's racist, but because his judgement is so poor he let Lew Rockwell pen articles in his name still goes unmentioned.
Given it is already established that every candidate and pundit is a limpid, runny turd and Paul is the only turd in the public eye with any firmness and contoured shape in his demeanor, your rhetoric about running him out of "the movement" is laughable. Only a complete asshole or a misguided fool would make it.
"Paul is the only turd in the public eye with any firmness and contoured shape in his demeanor"
He's got the physique of a coathanger, except without the ability to make clothes look presentable.
You know what's not appealing in a CinC? A list of grandparents who *couldnt* beat him up, with no names on it.
Lol! With Romney in the race, do you really think I meant Paul's ability to hold a suit together? Mittens got pecks like a finely chiseled Adonis sculpt -- anyway, that wasn't the point!
Which is necessary for the next time our President is in a steel cage match.
Ron Paul's Racist Photos: http://www.5k.com
Spread this around. Voters need to see the proof.
Separated at birth?
[Over 1,000 comments. I'm not reading through all of them, so if this has already been said, tough shit.]
Lew, I don't know if you wrote them, but if you did, or knows who did, now would be the time to say so.
"HA HA HA HA! You can't fool me! There aint't no Sanity Clause!"
-Chico Marx
Paul is complaining that Newt Gingrich is too pro-immigrant, so I have to start wondering if he really has a certain sympathy for the remarks in his newsletters.
Gary Johnson is still on the ballot in NH. I'm giving serious thought to voting for him.
Go ahead throw your vote away on Gary Johnson.
Didn't he drop out and say he will run as a libertarian?
Go ahead throw your vote away on Gary Johnson.
Didn't he drop out and say he will run as a libertarian?
Good for you!
Paul believes everything written in his newsletters.
Every single word.
He's racist filth.
What's the big deal? Ron Paul's 76 years old. Everyone in his age-group talks non-PC. It doesn't automatically make them racist! When I was a child I heard family members of my grandparents generation say a similar things in the home but never once advocated lynching anybody.
P.S. Compare Ron Paul's writings are nothing compared to what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have said and written about Jews and whites in recent history.
That's true. I know an old guy in his eighties --who's in all other ways intelligent and sophisticated-- who mentioned to me that a young (black) female friend of his recently gave birth to "a little pickaninny".
Pickaninny
Yes, it's a very old slang term that was once used to refer to small children - particularly black and/or very poor children. It isn't necessarily a perjorative term. Pick. A. Ninny. Do you know what a ninny is? Do you know what a boob is? They're both pretty much the same thing - whether refering to female anatomy or to those who have a fetish for that part of female anatomy. The term pickaninny arose to sometimes describe children, because in very poor cultures children are often nursed by women other than their own mothers. Thus they might pick a ninny from whichever ones were available at the moment.
What's the big deal?
It's a big deal because the last soccer mom/single mom we need to achieve that critical mass that puts libertarianism over the top? Needs to know we're hostile to bigotry before she casts her lot with us.
If we're never gonna get any bigger or more influential than we are so long as that crucial segment of society thinks libertarians are the sort who defend the kind of crap that's in those newsletters...
Then showing people that libertarians will reflexively defend that racist garbage--probably does more damage to the cause of libertarianism than anything else could.
No, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus, but libertarians who refuse to apologize for Ron Paul or his vile newsletters? They're totally real.
How do you know you don't need a bigot to put you over the top?
Because once you alienate Jewish people with holocaust denial, people of African ancestry, gay people...and then exclude everyone who sympathizes with those groups of people too?
You're left with not a big enough slice of the demographic to win.
Like I keep saying around here--the reason Ford doesn't use a lot of homophobia and holocaust denial in their advertising? Is because they want people to like them. ...not because that weirdness is so appealing to people that they couldn't handle all the sales volume.
The hardcore shows I used to go to back in the '80s appealed to a very small--very enthusiastic--slice of the demographic. Sort of like the attention Ron Paul was getting back in the '90s. The suggestion that could go mainstream? The suggestion that being associated with homophobia, holocaust denial, and racism makes Ron Paul even more popular? Is like the suggestion that hardcore would have been more popular in the mainstream if it hadn't been watered down...
It doesn't work that way! When punk rock is popular, it sounds like Green Day and Blink 182.
By alienating certain demographics, he made his mainstream appeal smaller. That shouldn't be hard to grasp. If we as libertarian want more support and influence than we have right now? We need people NOT to associate us with culture war bullshit that doesn't really have anything to do with libertarianism anyway.
Hell, the NAACP is practically on board against the drug war now! If we want more support and influence, that's the kind of thing we need to encourage. I don't know how people get it all so ass backwards.
"Like I keep saying around here--the reason Ford doesn't use a lot of homophobia and holocaust denial in their advertising?"
You've said this more than once ?!??!!?!?
More on Paul's "meteoric rise:"
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/i.....480-v2.png
Paul's trajectory has been slow and steady, especially compared to his opponents'.
Now the NY Times is doing the guilt by association thing. Happy now you Reason? WHO DO YOU ASSOCIATE WITH?
I guarantee they don't associate with racists.
For a website called "reason"....
You know who else used guilt by association...
Still digesting Christmas dinner, but in looking at this site I get the impression that Paul wrote some newsletters - is this true? If so, why didn't anyone mention it before?
Yes, he wrote every single one of them. And was proud of it at one time.
"Even if Ron had never intentionally courted them, isn't it a huge problem that they think he is a good candidate?"
No, I don't think it is any kind of problem that some people with whom Paul disagrees want to support him. You can say that about every candidate.
"Paul has to take responsibility for them."
http://www.dailypaul.com/19418.....s-kirchick
"He needs to argue how his philosophy of the dignity and rights of every individual informs his pro-liberty and anti-war agenda, which, at its core, rejects every form of soft or hard racism and other ugly collectivisms."
He has already been doing that for decades. Collectivism and libertarianism are directly opposed to each other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3EADdr-5AY
Lake Jackson uber alles!
Even in 2008, he refused to return a campaign contribution of $500 from the white supremacist group Stormfront.
Forgive me for my use of logic in an emotional discussion here, but wouldn't that be tantamount to donating $500 to them?
If I was running for office and some vile group decided to give me money, I'd hold a press conference where I told them to go fuck themselves, but still keep the money because that way they can't use it for anything else.
Or you could tell them the next time you attend one of their conferences.
From the comments at The Libertarian Central Committee For Progressive Social Justice
Eric Dondero 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
The problem with all this is the assumption that Paleos and the Beltway/Reason libertarians are opposites. They are not. They are all non-interventionists, and thus all left-libertarians.
Those of us on the rightside of the libertarian movement, Anti-Jihadist libertarians, see only a matter of degrees of difference between Rockwell/Raimondo/Paul and Boaz/Crane/Gillespie. They're all Islamist appeasors (Gillespie at least recognizes the threat of Islamism). They are all left-libertarians, as opposed to the Pamela Gellers, Mark Steyns, Ayaan Hirsi Alli, Dennis Millers, Neal Boortz of the world.
social relations and various aspects will only improve over time.. with or without the government. since government is entangled constantly in power struggles and is always backward looking, it is much faster without the government, is all. imagine a population that is entirely consisted of racist, a government rule banning it isn't going to do anything. all governmental functions should be external pointing, not internal.
and i didn't need to mention that racism was initially instituted by the government entirely, and it took the population a while to correct that.
and i'm not really interested in your wing of libertarianism variety and i haven't bother reading into all these separated categories the author makes of rothbard, ron paul, or whatever others. but i'm just curious then where has "this" particular wing of libertarianism be? why the lack of success? why suddenly the strive for relevance a few weeks prior to the first primary? why didn't you forecast the housing bubble? is there a lack of economists in this "wing" of libertarianism?
again, why the lack of success? not a rhetoric question. consensus, political success, social success in converting people, by being socially appealing. not success of arm chairing and in your own mind, by some obscure standard you call morally righteous, no.
nvm the typos i wasn't aroused about talking to you guys enough to even spellcheck. saying this because i know the tendency of attention deficit around here. must not feel good to feel like the "wing" that has all the right answers and suddenly feel challenged. there is a difference between philosophy and executable policy, not everything is appropriate to be written as law, and you don't even realize that. the lack of such fruitless venture into unworkable policies would be characterized as incompassionate about righting wrongs and discrimination against immigrants.. talk about glass half full understanding.
As a member of the Libertarian Party, I'm glad I stopped subscribing to Reason magazine 9 years ago. My support is for Dr. Paul, I've heard all this crap in 2008, glad someone this year pointed out the connection between Kirlchick? Newt and this other think tank that is tied into the military industrial complex. Ron Paul 2012 - Hemp hemp hooray. Freedom today! F the neo-cons.
Some of the allegations about "racism" are related to simple crime statistics. Statistics can't be "racist" unless someone manipulate them to make minorities look worse than what the numbers say.
So, what are the real numbers for black crime in DC to debunk what the newsletters say? Waiting...
"They are all left-libertarians, as opposed to the Pamela Gellers, Mark Steyns, Ayaan Hirsi Alli, Dennis Millers, Neal Boortz of the world."
Those are neoCons of the worst class, far from being libertarians. Israel-firsters, war-mongering sycophants of the international banking elite.
It's clear for all to see where their real interests are, and it's not America.
For all the idiots who still think Paul wrote them, and for all the idiots who repeat that lie, and for all the Reason folks who are busy trying to join Welch's Team Suck:
Here's the rebuttal. Read it and weep, fools!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7628.....rsFaq-Tunk
Hahahahahaha! Is that supposed to be a definitive rebuttal? Ridiculous.
"Observe, for example, CNN's poor Gloria Borger's apologetic tone when Paul terminated the interview with her. "It's [the questioning] legitimate, it's legitimate" she pleaded plaintively, even deferentially thanking Paul for his time as he removed his wire somewhat huffily."
Ahhhh...poor Gloria Bolger. Who, by coincidence, is married to a key player in the military industrial complex! Poor baby. "But...It's legitimate....boo hoo hoo."
Incidentally is Reason attempting to float the now-proven LIE that Paul "stormed off the set" after this interview? Because Drudge has already slam-dunked that piece of yellow journalism.
@woody , who asks:
in 1992, joined the LP the following year, and stayed active for several years. This was before the internet, when nearly all communication was through newsletters, and I thought I'd seen everything newsletter that existed, and even met Ron Paul, I never even heard of the newsletters until 1996, and back then there weren't enough libertarians to shake a stick at. When Kirchick put out his story in 08, my first thought was how did this ass bag get ahold of something like this? I just wondered if HE had a pipeline or connection of sorts to the people responsible
A: Kirchik found the newsletters in two obscure midwestern libraries after he was directed there by DAVID BOAZ and TOM PALMER of the Cato Institute.
"Such a speech must begin with a mea culpa that goes beyond "I disavow them (the newsletters).""
What's wrong with that answer? Do you have PROOF that he wrote the newsletters?
You're trying to assassinate his character even though he has a 30+ year public record in Congress, books, and interviews with no evidence of being a racist.
He's been in more than one interview where he's declared that MLK and Rosa Parks were his heroes. Why would a racist make such comments?
Even if Paul *is* a racist, so what? I don't hold the fact he's a Christian against him.
His actions speak louder than 20 year old newsletter rants. The world is falling apart, the US is in crisis, and you attack the one man who might save us from the inevitable police state? You need to get your priorities straight.
I suppose if you were dying from a brain tumor and you discovered that the one surgeon who could save your life was a racist you'd say, "Nope. I'd rather die than be saved by a racist."
Is this what Reason has come to? Fighting against freedom? I used to like this mag; now it sickens me.
"Paul could pull off something similar, although, admittedly, he has a rockier road ahead of him given that he is more directly culpable for the statements in the newsletters than Obama was for his preacher's remarks."
This is the sort of ridiculous, muddled thinking that makes you all the laughingstock of the political world. See, Obama isn't actually culpable AT ALL for his preacher's remarks. You'd understand this if you morons were actual libertarians.
However, Ron Paul is culpable for Ron Paul's signed Ron Paul newsletters.
See how that works?
Even if Ron Paul could muster the same level of grace and class Obama showed about a manufactured event, Paul still owns his own behavior.
http://drpaul2012.wordpress.com
Sorry I find it ludicrous to censure Paul on associating with paleo-libertarians. Why not assault mainstream GOP candidates for advocating massive war against middle-east muslims, inner city blacks, and latin american states? Of course not! Because you just don't get it. You must be real comfy in your ivory tower.
Reason, the libertarian magazine who's editors vote for left wingers over libertarians.
Do an article about all the white people rioting over shoes.
It is a foregone conclusion that Paulians will attack the messenger, because they are caught up in a cult of personality, not libertarianism per se, which has hopefully evolved to the point that it would categorically reject such a despicable campaign to drive white working class males into libertarianism, if not Lew Rockwell himself.
Ron Paul has always surrounded himself with kooks. I'm not speaking of the abolish the Fed advocate, which is perfectly sane, but the 9/11 truther/Israeli Lobby runs the country kind and this issue raises its ugly head every time he gains some traction.
Small 'L' libertarianism would be much better served if Dr. Paul retired from the "let's pretend we're running for president when in fact we're running an education campaign every 4 years" pastime. Get somebody that's a little more serious about winning, and doesn't have the baggage that has literally followed him for decades. Seriously, this is a very old story for anybody that actually follows these things. But somehow, it never fails to be stumbled upon each time, like a landmine whose exact location is replaced and forgotten every 4 years.
Rand Paul might be a good choice. Respectable, well spoken, none of the baggage, and actually represents a state, as opposed to some district in Texas.
So, where is the "Reason" in this hit piece? Nice try, but another failure to target Ron Paul with racist smears. I smell fear: fear of neocons going down to huge defeat Fear of neocon irrelevance. Fear of...peace.
Ron Paul 2012.
I think one way to handle this would be to simply state that my public stands on these issues has changed regardless of what my personal opinions are. My own opinion on these things is that the desire to coerce behavior in others is one that should be recognized and suppressed in public figures and in public policy as acting on this "religious impulse", whether it be to reform homosexuals or to promote 'warmism', leads to totalitarianism if carried to fulfillment.
Liberals, remove your racial pink glasses and admit the truth. Blacks are criminally inclined. What planet do you live on?
As many of the comments on this thread show, the appeal to racists worked. Ron Paul has solid support among racist assholes. Don't know if that's a winning coalition in the general, but might be enough to get him the nomination. Funny to see the cult of personality built up around Paul, and the worship of ideology among many Reason readers.
Libertarian concern trolling seems to be Reason's primary editorial mandate.
Ron Paul's newsletters won't tarnish libertarianism any more than Reason enhances its appeal. Which is to say, they couldn't be less irrelevant.
Calling for Ron Paul to name names is nothing more than fishing for a Rev. Wright to hang his campaign with. Reason seems to hope the noose is Lew Rockwell-shaped.
No need to refute anything, Gus. Those newsletters are great and totally reasonable.
Mark, AIPAC, the official Israel Lobby, brags that it has 400 House Members, 95 Senators and the Executive Branch unders its control.
What Planet have you been living to miss this ?
9-11 is an entirely different matter and the only important thing about it was the US Mideast's policy chickens coming to roost.
Ken, holocaust revisionism is true. Jews and I've long married to one do NOT vote GOP in more than 10% tops. Blacks vote Demo 99.99% of the time. The GOP will never win these groups. Even despite the disgusting GOP pandering to Israel in the debates which has been condemned by Debra Lipstadt, Richard Cohen, Thomas Friedman and a score of other prominent Jews.
You need to take an arithmetic course and spare us your windbaggery.
Gus, here in Oakland Blacks are 100% of the racist assholes.
By any chance are you Gus diZerega ?
A loser from the 70s.
The statistics show many of the points to be true. But this is behavior caused by incentives. So we can blame the government for providing incentives to break apart the nuclear family. I saw it happen before my eyes and have minority friends.
FACTS?
Sorry was this an opinion on an opinon?
What is your point to this article?
Where are your facts?
FACTS?
Sorry was this an opinion on an opinon?
What is your point to this article?
Where are your facts?
ANYONE WHO STILL TAKES THESE ACCUSATIONS SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO READ THIS JUSTIN RAIMONDO ARTICLE, "Why the Beltway Libertarians Are Trying to Smear Ron Paul", WHICH WILL ABSOLUTELY CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE SUBJECT:
http://takimag.com/article/why.....z1fAU0iHwr
Ron Paul needs to make this statement:
"In 198x-199x, I published a newsletter under my name. This newsletter included inflammatory content expressiing racial and religious bigotry. I did not write this content, and and I did not and do not share the attitudes it reflected.
However, I was fully aware of this content. I did not review every issue of the newsletter, but I reviewed many issues. I discussed the content with the persons who wrote it for me, and I explicitly approved the inclusion of the aforementioned racial and religious bigotry, which appeared many times.
I allowed this material to be published under my name because it appealed to people who held these unsavory prejudices, and drew millions of dollars in subscription revenue from them. It also developed political support for my Congressional re-election campaigns (from outside my District; very few of my constituents hold these views), and for my later campaigns for the Presidential nomination.
I circulated sentiments which I knew to be false and malignant, for personal and political gain. This was dishonest, dishonorable, and disgraceful. I will never name the persons who wrote the newsletters for me. The responsibility is mine alone.
I now declare that having committed such acts, I am not fit to hold any public office. I hereby resign from the Congress of the United States, and I terminate my present campaign for President. All funds in my campaign treasury will be refunded to donors.
I will make no endorsement in the present nomination campaign, or in the general election.
Goodbye."
That would be an appropriate response.
Ron Paul's newsletters were absolutely true in all aspects and he needs to stand behind them completely.
Rich Rostrom, the sooner garbage and excrement like you is purged from the libertarian ranks the better.
Go back to neocon central and tell them that you have utterly failed.
You are pathetic.
Wait, didnt he already answer these questions in his latest books? He has whole chapters dedicated to this subject.
(anon) 12.28.11 @ 2:24AM|#
Ron Paul does not stand behind his newsletters. In fact he said that he did not write them and that he does not agree with the offensive content.
Since you believe the newsletter content was "absolutely true", that means you disagree with Ron Paul.
You'll have to find a new leader.
I read all the comments and I have to ask. Is Ron Paul a racist or not?