Madonna: Not Her Brother's Keeper

For the Material Girl, charity, apparently, does not begin at home. Born and raised in Bay City, Michigan, Madonna gave $135,600 in campaign donations to Democrats last year. And two years ago she contributed $11 million of her own money toward Raising Malawi, an elite academy she founded for impoverished girls in Malawi. The academy was abandoned this year after $3.8 million was spent without a brick ever being laid.

But Michigan Messenger, the local Traverse City newspaper, reported yesterday that when it comes to her own brother, the 50-year-old superstar is AWOL. The city’s exceptional network of services for people on the street has made it a magnet for homeless people all over Michigan. And among them is Anthony Ciccone.

Ciccone told the paper that he’s been among the city’s homeless for a year and a half since losing a job at his father’s vineyard and winery in Suttons Bay. The paper reports:

He said that it annoys him that some people are amused that a person from such a high-profile family would end up sleeping, as he does, under the Union St. bridge.

“My family turned their back on me, basically, when I was having a hard time,” he said. “You think I haven’t answered this kind of question a bazillion times — why my sister is a multibazillionarie, and I’m homeless on the street?”

“Never say never,” he said. “This could happen to anybody.”

“I don’t have any income, I’ve got to go collect bottles and cans, do odd jobs.”

Despite the uncommon community effort to help the homeless here, there are gaps, and Ciccone was among several locals who got cold-related injuries last winter.

“They can’t do everything all the time for everybody, they just don’t have the resources,” he said. “These people that run these things are all volunteers, they don’t get paid to do these things.”

In the cold seasons the church shelters usher people out at 8 am and city rules against camping and camp fires make staying warm difficult.

“Where do you go at 8 o’clock on a Sunday morning and you have no money in your pocket?”

If you spend enough time on frozen concrete without proper insulation you will get frostbite, he said. “You have no idea how gruesome it is.”

“You get nerve damage. That’s the milder stage, in the severe stage you have tissue damage, that is when you lose parts of your body.”

“I got frostbite on my feet last winter, Ciccone said. “A friend of mine lost all ten toes. Several have died of hypothermia.”

“You go and find a place to stay warm like the lobby at the jail, or you take a walk to get your feet warm and go to Meijer’s and sit in the lobby there.”

Madonna is a big fan of Obama (obviously), even campaigning against John McCain (who has devoted his life to raising his adopted children from Bangladesh). But instead of supporting someone who would spread other people’s wealth to her brother while she spreads her own wealth to other people, wouldn’t it be nicer (and more efficient) if she just spread her own wealth to her own brother?

Of course, there would be no photo-ops in that!

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • anarch||

    Of course, there would be no photo-ops in that!

    Now there will be.

    But, not knowing her side of the case, I'm no one to judge her attitude or actions.

  • Ice Nine||

    “My family turned their back on me,

    Exactly. That statement provides a clue, though. Families tend to not just do that arbitrarily.

  • Paul||

    I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have dozens of hardcore progressives I count amongst my good friends. They all have a broad compassion towards the poor. Much deeper than my own. What I've always found interesting is their compassion is highly limited when it comes to poor members of their own families.

    I don't consider this an hypocrisy against my progressive friends, I merely consider it a reflection of a micro reality with which they're confronted.

    When it comes to their jobless, meth addicted cousin, or scamming, small-time grifter of an uncle, they're always keenly aware of the background and circumstances which led up to their hard times or poverty. "if my brother Tim would get off his ass, quit snorting meth and get a fucking job, I'd have more patience with him."

    When looking at poverty on a case-by case basis, the answers seem more obvious, but when looking at it across society at large, surely some jobs training programs or easy access to educational funds would make it all better, right?

  • Coeus||

    Mirrors my own experience exactly.

  • ||

    Well, then quit snorting meth and your family will welcome you back into the fold.

    Seriously. As soon as you stop sucking off sweaty-assed truckers for the rent money, and selling your tv's and body so you can get that next hit, you'll not only be on the road to recovery, you'll be on the road to rebuilding those bridges you tore down with your destructive lifestyle choice.

  • ||

    Inclined to agree, having seen mooches at close range; one uncle pissed through a large fraction of his inheritance within weeks. Per my grandmother's wishes, he was put on an allowance that my father oversees, and so it has remained, but I can absolutely believe that this guy is an abusive prick.

  • Chris||

    Isn't that the gay brother who claimed they sucked off the same dudes together? True or not, I think I would be pretty pissed at him if I were Madonna.

  • [BRACKETS]DADT[BRACKETS]||

  • ||

    Yeah, I think he even wrote a tell-all book about her. Which clearly did not sell.

    (I'd normally provide Google links, but my web history is embarrassing enough as it is.)

  • Cheezit||

    What are you talking about? That's the Reason way!

  • Private Idaho||

    I clicked on my reason.com bookmark and got Mother Jones.

  • Corrupt Malawi Govt Official||

    I have me a fat nest egg in a Swiss account thanks to Missy Madonna. I feel sad for the brother.

  • Ice Nine||

    Corrupt Malawi Govt Official

    Redundancy Alert!

  • "We Need Government...||

    ...to protect property rights."

    How's that working out?

  • ||

    Sometimes it's easier to give money to people you don't know, I guess.

  • BoscoH||

    He might be a complete d-bag. Just sayin.

  • ||

    Yeah, but so might be many of the other people on whom Madonna is lavishing her charity (and wants the government to lavish other people's tax dollars on). Why is the d-bag at home any worse than any of those other millions of anonymous d-bags?

  • Tank||

    Do you have family?

  • MWG||

    He did lose a job at his own father's vineyard so someone in this story is a douche bag.

  • ||

    Yes, of course, he could well be a douche bag -- but so could many of the people on whom Madonna (and gov) throw money in the name of charity. But if it doesn't bother her that her money is going to these other douche bags, why make an exception for her own brother? I have nothing against tough love or no love toward family. But then spare me your sermons about charity and stop trying to indiscriminately spread my wealth around.

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    Stop trying to concentrate the wealth of the world to yourself via the aggressive big-government program of privation property.

    The abstract notion of ownership serves as the single, greatest perpetuator of hierarchy. When one steps back and examines the notion of “owning” something, the abstraction becomes readily apparent. Ownership represents nothing more than a power-relationship—the ability to control. The tribal institution of “Ownership by use” on the other hand, suggests simply that one can only “own” those things that they put to immediate, direct and personal use to meet basic needs—and not more. A society crosses the memetic Rubicon when it accepts the abstraction that ownership can extend beyond the exclusive needs of one individual for survival. (Read Jason Godesky on Ownership*) Abstract ownership begins when society accepts a claim of symbolic control of something without the requirement of immediate, direct and personal use. Hierarchy, at any level, requires this excess, abstract ownership—it represents the symbolic capital that forms the foundation of all stratification.

    ~Attorney-at-Law Jeff Vail
    Chapter 9 - Forward, to Rhizome
    Wednesday, March 09, 2005
    "A Theory of Power" Online
    http://www.jeffvail.net/2005/0.....nline.html

    * "To date, however, no philosopher has ever successfully divorced Lockesian property rights from monotheism."
    The Right to Property
    by Jason Godesky | 18 July 2005
    http://rewild.info/anthropik/2.....-property/

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Fuck off, White Idiot.

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    Next time, don't bitch about paying 40% of taxes, especially when government is just middle management for the 1%. kthanks

  • Mr. FIFY||

    What, forty cents on the dollar isn't good enough?

    Why do you have to be a jealous, whiny bitch about other peoples' incomes?

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    please make a note of it

  • Dei Commentatori||

    Ci sarà un test?

  • Pudgeboy||

    Yea, because they created it.

  • Federal Dog||

    Whoever wrote that has never taken basic property in law school.

    Don't run your mouth when you have no idea what you are talking about.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Has to be White Idiot.

  • Law school = obfuscation||

    Fuck you shysters. All of you.

    White Indian counts intellectual coup on your sorry asses.

  • Pham Nuwen||

    WIN!

  • F Hart||

    Abstract ownership begins when society accepts a claim of symbolic control of something without the requirement of immediate, direct and personal use..

    My Daddy says, if you don't share your toys with me, I can beat you up and take them.

  • anarch||

    Surely when she learns the moral stature of the recipients of her group-charity are wanting, she excludes them.

    And/or, she excludes those whose moral defecit she has personally experienced.

    Now that could be a service-sector niche: assessing merit among the destitute.

  • assessing merit of destitute||

    But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

    ~verses 33-37, chapter 8, of The Jefferson Bible

  • anarch||

    But what if he doesn't deserve it?

    "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you." ~ Proverbs 25:21-22

    Whoo! Talk about tough love!

  • To hell with James Dobson...||

    ...and his toughBDSM-"love."

    I wonder why Dobson & Co. don't advocate providing food and water to the Palestinians.

    Because everything they do is for the purpose of Domination, even their love.

  • To hell with James Dobson...||

    ...and his toughBDSM-"love."

    I wonder why Dobson & Co. don't advocate providing food and water to the Palestinians.

    Because everything they do is for the purpose of Domination, even their love.

    [redo]

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Who's James Dobson?

  • James Dobson||

    Who's Heroic Mulatto?

  • Jason Bourne||

    I am Matt Damon.

  • What are Palestinians?||

  • ||

    A group of people too busy hating their neighbors to be able to feed themselves, and less worthy of charity than Madonna's brother.

  • Rhywun||

    What's a Nubian?

  • Intrisically Paternalistic||

    MATT DAMON!!!!

  • Live Free or Diet||

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Separation of church and state, AMD.

  • Jeff||

    So are Democrats. Doesn't stop Madonna from lavishing money on them by the hundreds of thousands.

  • ||

    "They can’t do everything all the time for everybody, they just don’t have the resources,” he said. “These people that run these things are all volunteers, they don’t get paid to do these things."

    The lesson to take away from this isn't that Madonna is a cold-hearted witch.

    It's that a lot of people with good intentions see government as the solution to these problems--even when the real solutions are staring them right in the face.

    Making campaign contributions to politicians never helped any homeless people. Voting for a bleeding heart liberal never helped any homeless people.

    If you want to help homeless people? Don't vote. Google your local homeless shelter/soup kitchen and volunteer. They're looking for volunteers in your hometown--guaranteed.

  • Marxist Jesus||

    For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required. ~verse 64, chapter 4, the Jefferson Bible

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Jesus would not have approved of Marxism, as it led to massive death and despotic rule.

  • squishua||

    Jesus would not have approved of Marxism, as it led to massive death and despotic rule.


    I guess he wouldn't approve of any other organized religions either (not just Marxism).

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Degrees of separation, squish. We're nowhere near the devastation and death levels of Soviet Russia.

  • Metazoan||

    It's still just a quantitative difference; the principles are similar.

    Anyway, I don't think it's that far-fetched to say that Jesus wasn't the biggest fan of organized religion.

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    Jesus would not have approved of Capitalism, as it too has led to massive death and despotic rule.

  • ||

    Aw come on. We deserve better trolls than this.

  • Blight Engine||

    The argument began, "I want to be free to live a primitive life."
    It continued, "I want to see man forced back into a primitive life."
    Last week, "I want to see man made return to being a primitive form of life."
    He roots for failure. He is outraged by success. Rand wrote characters just like this angry little banality. Critics complained they were two-dimensional. Does the real-life version inspire anyone here to put on his 3-D glasses?
    Not me.

  • ||

    He said, "If you've done so unto the least of these, you've done so unto me."

    He didn't say, "If you've voted for Team Blue, you've voted for me."

    If you care, get your ass to your local homeless shelter and volunteer. All this Occupy Wall Street bullshit isn't feeding or housing anybody.

  • ||

    They care enough to try and force everyone else to care.

    You see? Cuz, like they would, but.. Teh Man takesez all they money and.. see, like, people should care and DO SOMETHING!

  • Libertarian STATISTs use force||

    Drawing lines on the earth to restrict free movement of free families to forage and hunt as they did for thousands of years -- until the big government Land enTitlement program of privation property that stopped it, and keeps it stopped, by aggression.

    Officer, am I free to gambol about plain and forest?

  • ||

    Libertarian STATISTs use force

    Most libertarians support having a police force, courts and a military? Who knew?! Actually, that shouldn't be surprising to anybody who knows anything about libertarians.

    Libertarian non-Anarchists would use the force of government--but only reluctantly and only in defense of people's rights.

    That's in sharp contrast to those who would use the force of government arbitrarily to do whatever they want regardless of whether it violated anyone's rights.

    As far as hunter-gathering, if you think people want to go back to that, yer outta yer mind. In the past, when I heard people argue that various factions on the left wanted to take us back to the stone age, I used to accuse them of exaggerating...

    You're further evidence for my hypothesis that partisans on both sides strive to become the caricatures their opponents make them out to be.

    Accuse the right of being a bunch of anti-intellectual rednecks, and they will strive to become anti-intellectual rednecks. Accuse the left of wanting to roll our technological and economic progress back to the stone age?

    And you show up!

    Congratulations on actually becoming the stereotype--not just anyone can achieve that. You seem to have that special something. Have you considered a career in Scientology?

  • Trail of Tears||

    Libertarian non-Anarchists would use the force of government--but only reluctantly and only in defense of people's rights.

    And then you define it as somebody's right to restrict the free movement of people on the Land with abstract lines of control. And that takes aggression to establish and maintain.

    Officer, am I free to gambol about forest and plain?

    That's in sharp contrast to those who would use the force of government arbitrarily to do whatever they want regardless of whether it violated anyone's rights.

    You wish there was a sharp contrast, but that exactly describes your capitalist dogma that caused the genocide of millions of Indians.

    Why? Because they just wanted to be free to move about the land without big-government privation property restrictions on their movement.

  • ||

    "And then you define it as somebody's right to restrict the free movement of people on the Land with abstract lines of control."

    There's nothing abstract about land titles. I've had 'em surveyed. I've gone through them line by line. There's nothing abstract about them at all. They're measured in concrete terms, not abstract. And the people with their names on them aren't abstract either--they're flesh and blood. And they have rights.

    Native Americans had rights too. There's no question that they got a raw deal from the colonists and just about everybody who came after them. There's no question that their rights were violated.

    But there's no reason to conflate that discussion about what was done more than a century ago with the discussion about what we should do right now.

    The chances of our society agreeing to erase all "abstract" land titles because of stuff that happened, sometimes, before our nation even existed are pretty darn near absolute zero.

    Regardless of what our ancestors did hundreds of years before we were born, everybody--including Native Americans--has rights. And if our government has any legitimate claim at all to exist, it exists to protect those rights.

    Just because our government failed to protect the rights of Native Americans in the past is no reason to support doing away with everyone's property rights now.

  • scott||

    Actually, I think people in generally capitalist countries are far better off than people in generally socialist or communist ones. How do you see capitalism's "victims" stacking up next to the millions upon millions murdered or starved in socialist or communist countries? Capitalism vs. any other economic system is so verifiably more humane than them I can't believe it's still a debate.

  • Trail of Tears||

    The genocide of millions of Native Americans doesn't count?

    Nice going there, Mr. "scott" Goebbels.

  • Skr||

    The vast majority of the indigenous American population was accidentally dead from disease long before any eradication campaign began. During the 19th century the population decline was around 450k which while tragic is a far cry from millions.

  • Metazoan||

    Can this get a Godwin?

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Jesus would not approve of North Koreans having to resort to eating grass and tree bark to survive.

  • Jesus hates -isms||

    Both concentrate wealth of the empire to ridiculous levels. Zil limos. G-650 jets. The interconnected corporate boardroom Politburo.

  • BelowTheRim||

    Pretty sure Jesus was a Jew. Last I checked he was teamed as the King of the Jews.

    Jews are heralded throughout history at their ability to conduct commerce. In fact, in Christianity you are supposed to tithe. I.E. give 10% of your earnings to the church.

    I believe Jesus wants us to freely give to those in need. I've been a lazy Christian lately but am pretty sure that I have a rough outline of the situation.

    Not sure where this involves government though.

  • Libertarian STATISTs use force||

    You already used government force to deprive people of the ability to forage and hunt for your privation property scheme.

    You love that use of force.

    Libertarianism is government for me, but not for thee.

  • Jesus Marxist||

    Que?

  • Che||

    Que?

  • Manuel||

    Que?

  • Basil||

    Don't mind him, he's from Barcelona

  • rather||

    I love that show

  • BelowTheRim||

    Schultz that is a perfect point. Many well intentioned bleeding hearts think gov't is the answer when in reality governments don't help those in need. People do.

    A great lesson for libertarians is that being compassionate to less fortunate is a great idea, especially if done as an un-coerced individual/gov't shill.

  • Libertarian STATISTs use force||

    You already used government force to deprive people of the ability to forage and hunt for your privation property scheme.

    You love that use of force.

    Libertarianism is essentially government for me, but not for thee.

  • Tanaru||

    Bit of a conundrum, isn't it? There are actual hunter-gatherer groups left, happily hunting and gathering without interference by libertarians. You could join them. There's nothing stopping you short of your own sloth and moral weakness. But the first noble savage you met would probably kill you, since you'd be hanging out in the hunting area/private property his tribe "owns".
    Sort of a win-win for everyone, actually.

  • Trail of Tears||

    Oh, if you don't like the government in this country, why don't you quit whining and just leave and go to, say, Antarctica? There's nothing stopping you short of your own sloth and moral weakness.

    See how easy your STATIST bullshit is?

  • Tanaru||

    Interesting conflation. You're arguing my desire to change certain government policies is equivalent to your desire to eliminate civilization as we know it.
    I might eventually join a "primitive" tribe myself, just to get away from you. Would that be irony?

  • ||

    The academy was abandoned this year after $3.8 million was spent without a brick ever being laid.

    They meant well.

    And the tax attorneys said it was totally worth it.

  • A fan||

    The academy was abandoned this year after $3.8 million was spent without a brick ever being laid.

    I read that as prick not brick.

  • prolefeed||

    I'm guessing that some of the $4 million or so went to getting corrupt pricks laid.

  • rather||

    Sexism. I'm sure Malawi has its share of crooked vaginas

  • ||

    I'm sure Malawi has its share of crooked vaginas

    Why, is it part of Asia or something?

  • Meh||

    “I don’t have any income, I’ve got to go collect bottles and cans, do odd jobs.”

    Now they're both whores.

  • ||

    Well, at least it's a Green Eco-theological line of work. He could think of himself as a monk for Gaia.

    I seem to remember on an episode of Top Chef he appeared on the show as some sort of "design collaborator" and I recall him coming off as a bit of smug dick (must be a family trait.) So, it's possible that Ciccione has arrived at Hotel Impoverished on his own dime attitude and not through a series of unfortunate events...

  • Big Camel Toe||

    Well, at least it's an industrial line of work. He could think of himself as a John Galt, and be on the prowl for a Dagny to benevolently rape. Or a poor Roark stalking a Dominique.

  • ||

    Joe! Joe Biden, is that you!?

  • Hillary's "groove"||

    Hillary's "groove" is maximum.

    Slick willy told me so.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    No wonder Madonna gave money to Obama... they are both wealthy liberals with siblings about whom they care nothing nor support financially, let alone spiritually.

  • .||

    And yet...and yet they both care soooo much about people, don't they? Sure they do. (Turns and spits.)

  • Well,||

    Madonna gave money with the idea that a school would be built. Obama: LAUNCH killer drones!

  • Which still,||

    makes one ask why anyone would support Obama.

  • ||

    Who gives a rat's ass who the Material Girl gives her money to? It's her fucking money. If she and her brother don't get along...oh well, it's nobody's business but theirs.

    Why the fuck is this even an article?

  • ||

    Epi, you malignant, fleet-fingered bastard! Beat me by two minutes.

  • ||

    I WIN THE INTERNETZ

  • ||

    Just make sure you pull a Tommie Smith when you get your medal. I'll play John Carlos.

  • ||

    What.

  • ||

    Just make sure you pull a Tommie Smith when you get your medal. I'll play John Carlos.

  • ||

    The.

  • ||

    Just make sure you pull a Tommie Smith when you get your medal. I'll play John Carlos.

  • ||

    Fuck.

  • indubitable juris imprudent||

    You have been "beloved" by the squirrels. Take it like a man.

  • ||

    I'm suing you for violating patient-doctor privilege, doc. Consider yourself served.

  • Cheap Shot||

  • ||

    Maybe so, but it doesn't take away from the cogency of his argument. Like it or not, Epi is correct: it's her money. Full stop.

    Well-to-do people may resent the entitlement mindset that appears in ne'er-do-well relatives when the successful, hardworking relative amasses fortune (either through hard work or a lottery) and respond in kind when said relatives expect support when none is deemed warranted.

    It does seem incongruent, however, that a wealthy, other-peoples's-wealth-redistributing Obama supporter is notably chincy when it comes to her own family. The smut rags have suggested a very icy relationship b'twixt the sibs, and Ciccone may be reaping those just desserts.

    Government, like Madonna, can't save the world, and the pilfering, paternalistic attitude inherent in those that think they can is equally as sickening.

    As Mother Theresa said, "Find your own Calcutta."

  • ||

    Why would you respond to rectal's completely idiotic and retarded-as-expected post, doc?

  • ||

    The actual point is, and not addressed in this article, is when are your going to have those superfluous nipples on your back removed, Mr. I'm-proof-life-ain't a circus-it's a fucking-freak-show? Damn those things are creepy, especially when you get around Warty's freshly razed pregnant dinners and you have sympathy leaks.

    You have to wean Warty sometime, Epi.

  • ||

    And reason just fucked up, again. Once again this shitty fucking website managed to put my post completely under the wrong subthread.

    I'm suing you for violating patient-doctor privilege, doc. Consider yourself served.

  • ||

    Consider yourself served.

    I'm so skeered.

  • Ted S.||

    How come I never seem to have problems with the server squirrels when it comes to posting?

    (I have problems in that H&R is a bloated memory hog, but no posting problems.)

  • BakedPenguin||

    Chrome and FF have plugins to stop Flash video, which helps greatly with the memory problem.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Safari does too, but it sure as hell didn't help with the slowness problems.

    Chrome is like lightning.

    But none of that changes the fact that reason.co is bloated as all fuck.

  • ||

    Because Groovus is right Epi, even if responding to rectal. There's no question that it's Madonna's money and she can do, or not do, with it as she pleases. Even if a saint such as myself was her brother she'd be under no obligation to give me a cent.

    The point of the post is that she does three things that are incongruous. She gives to charities, so she's not just a miserly scrooge. For whatever reason she prefers her brother to live under a bridge with rectal rather than direct her charity towards him, so I conclude she deems at least one person in the world is undeserving of any help. Again, it's her money, so it's her choice. But then she donates large sums to a bunch of statists who will be quite glad to take her money, and everyone else's, and blow it on people others feel are also undeserving. There's a disconnect there.

  • ||

    She's a regular Citizen Kane, completely inscrutable.

  • rather||

    Fuck you epi
    Again you are delusional

  • shorter rectal||

    "I've got a pickle stuck in my cunt!"

  • Progressive Liberal Socialist||

    Government, like Madonna, can't save the world

    True. But it's development in human society has greatly increased life expectancy, as so many libertarians have noted here these last few days.

  • Federal Dog||

    "Like it or not, Epi is correct: it's her money. Full stop."

    Sure.

    The other posters are correct too: She is a festering, hypocritical bitch. Full stop.

  • ||

    Seriously, what the fuck is the point of this post?

  • ||

    The point is that they wanted to put up a Saturday thread and this is all they could come up with.

    They should have just posted a clip from the beginning of Reservoir Dogs where they're discussing Madonna.

  • ||

    Reservoir Dogs where they're discussing Madonna.

    One is not the same as the other. Madonna is the deep dish priazzo of the pizza world.

  • Mike M.||

    The point is that they wanted to put up a Saturday thread and this is all they could come up with.

    Yep. Apparently there's nothing important going on in the world these days.

  • squishua||

    Well, I can see pointing her out as a hypocrite, since she's lobbying for political causes that extract taxes from all of us to care for people like her brother who, if he were worth a fuck, she would take care of herself.

    Hey Madonna, if you don't want to pay for the bum, why do you want me to pay for the bum?

    But bottom line, statist leftist is statist leftist. Nothing to see here really that isn't seen in every "entertainment" celebrity personality marveling at how much money they have accumulated with such a disproportionate amount of risk on their part and thinking "gee, all people with lots of money get it as easily as I do."

  • MWG||

    I agreed with Epi, but you make an excellent point.

  • Hate Potion Number Nine||

    Having tried my hand at show biz myself I can tell you it's not as easy as you may think. You really do bet your life trying to make it big. If you fail you can count yourself lucky if you wind up talking to a guy in a rubber dinosaur suit for a paycheck.

    Celebrity money may well be out of hand (or may not be given how much money show biz can generate) but it's earned.

  • Apogee||

    ...but it's earned.

    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There's plenty of nepotism rewarding incredibly pathetic efforts.

    You are correct, however, that celebrity is pretty randomly applied by the public.

  • Handsome Lake||

    Its news because a world famous multi-millionaireI agree though, let him starve and freeze to death! This is a great website.

    Also, doesn't this story refute the glibertarian idea of private charity instead of a social safety net -- that we can count on the mega-wealthy to flick a few crumbs down to the proles; we can't force 'em? Its almost like libertarianism doesn't work in the real world or something.

  • Handsome Lake||

    The first sentence should've been: Its news because a world famous multi-millionaire's brother is homeless.

  • ||

    *AXIS OF GLIB*

    DUHN DUHN DUHHHH!

  • George Obama||

    Not only is he rich, he's stingy as fuck. I'm STILL living in a fucking hut.

  • MWG||

    Capitalism: Where what someone chooses to do with their own money is none of your damn business.

  • the lies of MWG||

    Capitalism: Where families who forage and hunt are murdered and put in concentration camps by force so capitalists can monopolize the land with their big-government privation property schme.

  • the most retarded fuck ever||

    White Indian.

  • Libertarians love Statism||

    the most retarded fucks ever

  • JB||

    It's an article because she advocates for taking my money by force and giving it to other people for her own pet causes and feelings.

    She should stop trying to use my money to fill up that giant hole that A-Rod's cock was too small for.

  • the lies of JB||

    because she advocates for taking my money by force

    Capitalists murder and drive families into concentration camps by force so capitalists can monopolize the land with their big-government privation property Land enTitlement program.

    How can you complain about government force with s straight face, you damn hypocrite? You love the stuff, if it helps you.

    Libertarianism is government for me, but not for thee.

  • cw||

    Jumping from rights-violating individuals to libertarianism is quite a stretch.

  • cw||

    Not to mention your irrelevant straw man. I don't remember any self-described libertarians here apologizing for the force and fraud certain individuals used (and still use) to acquire others' land/property.

  • cw is a big-gov't Statist||

    I don't remember any self-described libertarians here apologizing for the force

    Oh really? "We need government to protect property right" is what they say.

    Which is to say, without the typical Libertarian's attempt at whitewashing government aggression:

    "We need government to restrict the free movement of free people to forage and hunt with a big-government Land enTitlement program."

  • cw||

    Wow, as usual you take quotes out of context. You don't convince anyone of anything but your dishonesty when you do that.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Why does anyone even fucking bother with dumbfuck indian?

  • ||

    A story about the merits of closed- vs open-cockpit design in IndyCar would be a more appropriate story for HnR.

    I thought we were all about applauding individuals doing what they want with their own money, whether we agree with their choices or not...unless they infringe upon our rights. And now, our writers resort to a one-sided story about Madonna's hobo brother in an attempt to...what, shame her into giving her money to her brother instead of to whom she chooses to give it to freely?

    What the fuck?

  • PantsFan||

    F1 will be coming to New Jersey in 2013
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....EYWORDS=f1

  • ||

    Two US races + Canada in 2013?

    If the Mayan calendar doesn't end up being right, that next year is gonna be fucking awesome.

    Too bad they have to do it in NJ, when Laguna Seca is still the best venue in the country.

  • Gray Ghost||

    Too bad they have to do it in NJ, when Laguna Seca is still the best venue in the country.

    Agreed, but I think the problem is that Laguna Seca just doesn't have the # of hotel rooms that Jersey or even Austin do.

  • ||

    You're right, of course. And the weather around Monterey is always iffy. A real shame, too.

  • violent_k||

    Now I'm conflicted about how soon the asteroid should get here. Damn.

  • Too late||

    A story about the merits of closed- vs open-cockpit design

    By the time poverty sets in, it's too late to suggest prophylactics.

  • robc||

    Umlimited hydro figured this out in the 80s.

  • ||

    I fail to see how the Canadian electrical grid has anything to do with automobile racing, robc. Maybe I didn't go to University. Hell, i barely got my Grade 10, but I just doont see the connection.

  • ||

    Isn't the problem open wheel more than open cockpit?

  • indubitable juris imprudent||

    the merits of closed- vs open-cockpit design

    Not another thread on circumcision... oh, never mind.

  • erikjay||

    It's a "tit for tat" thing. Well, tits are in there somewhere.

  • squishua||

    Dunno, I thought it was to shame her into canning all the political activism that supports people like her brother at the expense of the rest of us.

    Don't get me wrong, she's not obligated to give the miserable bastard one cent, and neither are we... but we are according to what she advocates.

  • The Warning||

    Look out Madonna! There's a zombie right behind you!

  • ||

    +1. Nice catch.

  • BakedPenguin||

    [Insert missing brains joke here]

  • ||

    Zombie Chick: "Whhhhite meat...or darrrrk meat....BRAAAAAINS! UGGGGGGH!"

  • ||

    1. It's Madonna's money. She earned it legitimately. She's entitled to do whatever she wants with it, including giving it away to whomever she chooses.

    2. This article is a stupid, irrational hit-piece.

  • MJ||

    You did see the byline, right?

  • A Public Service Message||

    “The Public is not opposed to the Private. The Public makes the Private possible.”

    Please make a note of it.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Make a note of what?

  • ||

    Kthxbai!

  • The Ingenious Hidalgo||

    Please back up your epigrams with arguments.

  • good idea; you first||

  • J||

    After seeing the headline, I was kinda hoping it was another more famous brother who was in trouble.

  • J||

    Wait, never mind, I got confused. Sean Penn was her ex-husband, not brother. And he's Michael Penn's brother.

    It would still be nice if he was living under a bridge.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Epi and sloopy, the point of this article is that Madge is stumping for a guy to raise her taxes to make a marginally better impact in the lives of people like her brother rather than taking a few simple steps that would help him immeasurably. She wouldn't even have to talk to him.

    Yes, we are libertarians and yes Madonna can do whatever she wants with her money. But rolling around naked in a pile of Sacajaweas and giving your money to a political party that never met a foreign country that they didn't want to bomb is kind of a dick move. Especially when there is so much actual good you could do with it.

    And to all the people pointing out that it's probably the brother's fault: maybe it is. But J sub D was estranged from his family too. It's not always a clear case of moral failing.

  • point of information||

    rolling around naked in a pile of Sacajaweas?

  • Definition||

    "to swim in a kiddie pool filled with Mountain Dew and Dr. Pepper that one's sexual partner is currently defecating in."

  • point of TMI||

    uh, thanks

  • MJ||

    An ill regarded unit of US currency.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacagawea_dollar

  • point of no return||

    That's what I needed to know, thanks.

  • J||

    Exactly. Madonna supports a party that wants to take a large portion of money from people who make a lot less to her to go towards whoever has enough clout to get it from the government. Many of whom are much worse than her brother. It's worth pointing this out.

  • erikjay||

    You are right.

  • ||

    In her defense on the Obama donations, he certainly campaigned opposite of the way he is carrying himself IRT foreign intervention. IOW, she was a sucker along with so many other people.

    Now, if she dumps a bunch of money into his reelection bid, then she will worthy of lampooning.

    That said, I get your point. And I hope you get mine, which is: I do not give a fuck who she gives her money to until it directly affects my liberty negatively. And the writers of reason are doing the libertarianism a disservice when they try to tell people how or to whom they should donate their own money.

  • J||

    Dems always make this excuse, and they'll make it everytime a new democrat comes along. Fact is, they still prefer all democrats to all republicans. But instead of just admitting that they'll take the good with the bad (good being higher taxes, more spending, crappy health care bills; bad being vigorous prosecution of the drug war, oveseas adventures); they say they were duped. And they'll be "duped" the next time a Democrat wins the high office.

    Seriously, Bush said he didn't believe in nation building. I doubt the dems give anyone who believed that a free pass b/c they were duped.

  • ||

    And to all the people pointing out that it's probably the brother's fault: maybe it is. But J sub D was estranged from his family too. It's not always a clear case of moral failing.

    I'm not pointing to whose fault it is. I'm saying it's none of my business and none of my concern, and to tell an individual where they should donate their money is certainly not the business of the reason staff.

    Tell you what, next fund drive, I'll tell them to fuck off because I'm following Ms. Dalmia's advice and giving it to an estranged needy family member.

  • PantsFan||

    Now this is tragic
    22 Players quite lingerie football team

    http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/cfl.....cfl-wp1621

  • Apatheist||

    Not enough pictures.

  • CalebT||

    Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd say this, but this article actually makes me sympathize with poor Madonna.

  • Jesus Christ||

    Noted, my son.

  • Jesus Christ||

    And Mom thanks you.

  • Ice Nine||

  • Double D||

    Reason cannot be serious. We have no idea what Madonna's motivations are. Shared parentage does not make her brother automatically worthy of any of her money. I may not like Madonna, but I can acknowledge that the money she rightfully earned is hers to whatever pleases with. My opinion would be different if it was her child, but it isn't. Her brother can suffer the consequences of whatever actions (and we don't know that story, either) put him in his situation.
    Furthermore, who cares if she wasted money on Democrats or lost causes? IT'S HER MONEY. It would be another issue if she had coerceively taken the money from others and then proceeded to waste it on garbage.

  • juris imprudent||

    Reason cannot be serious.

    I need a ruling from the judges - does that warrant a drink?

  • Hugh Akston||

    I know right? For a magazine called compassion...

  • ||

    Perhaps you'd like to see the name of the magazine changed to Altruism?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Come on doc, you know there are degrees of distinction between solipsistic monocle-polishing and self-abasing altruism.

  • ||

    Those degrees of distinction are directly proportional to the either the absence or both the presence of and size and diameter of the gun held to one's temple.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Nobody's talking about coercion. We're talking about empathy for one's fellow human beings, and the internal motivation to help them.

  • Dei Commentatori||

    Coerced by one's own guilt

  • ||

    Nobody's talking about coercion.

    Ahem, the current occupant of the WH? Not to mention the literally unwashed swaths of over half of the OWS'ers, wealthy limo libs, and scores of Union Goons? All of whom advocate quite vociferously for active wealth redistribution as a measure of empathy. It's the same variation of the slippery slope, "Oh come on, you can help just one more person! What's one more person?" to the point where one gets spreads so thin, one's efficacy is essentially negated. I see this bile every day, and I for one and getting really, really tired of it.

    I akin it to Warren Boofay's answer to the question, "If you want the government to have more money, why don't you just contribute more?": he responded, "I know better how to spend my money than government does."

    We're talking about empathy for one's fellow human beings, and the internal motivation to help them.

    Ahh good old-fashioned emotional pornography: "I know empathy and internal motivation when I see it!" One person's acceptable level of charity is another's cause celeb to savage and demagogue. Like Shikha's article, being a prime example of this tripe in this instance.

  • Aaron R||

    Right-wing sites like to go for irony in their names or taglines. See 'Reason,' 'American Thinker,' 'Fair and Balanced.'

  • Double D||

    I liked some of what Shikha Dalmia produced, but I'm really starting to think she isn't actually a libertarian of any kind.

  • ||

    What is libertarian about this post?

    People Magazine is that way Shikha ---->

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    The purpose is to get us talking, to generate posts...

    ...and we fell for it, hook, line and sinker!

  • Apatheist||

    Jokes on them because I'm betting many of use some kind of ad blocking extension.

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    But do the advertisers know this?

  • ||

    What is unlibertarian about this post? I wasn't aware being a libertarian meant you couldn't judge other people's actions based on other values besides liberty?

    Assuming that as individuals we must only hold one value to matter and everything else is morally relative plays to a 1-D stereotype of libertarianism.

    However, the article fails at providing context as to why Madonna doesn't think her brother is important enough to give money to. I can't agree that she's a hypocrite until I know more about their relationship and his own bad decisions that put him here.

  • anti-empathy reinforcement||

    This article's purpose is to reinforce anti-empathy.

    If a legitimate reason to reject charity can be presented now and then, it reinforces the notion that all empathy towards our fellow human beings is weak and anti-capitalist.

  • Anti-Empathy Reinforcement||

    This article's purpose is to reinforce anti-empathy.

    If a legitimate reason to reject charity can be presented now and then, it reinforces the notion that all empathy towards our fellow human beings is weak and anti-capitalist.

  • ||

    Well since it seems to be saying that Madonna should be empathetic to her brother, I don't see how it's anti-empathy.

  • Hugh Akston||

    See, if we are to take libertarianism seriously, then we have to address the problem of what is going to replace the grossly inadequate welfare state.

    I tend to side with Shika that private charity and voluntary mutual aide motivated by actual human compassion is not only better than nothing, but also better than what we have now.

    Others on this blog seem to prefer the frozen corpses of homeless people. Both are acceptable libertarian answers.

  • Disestablisment is Coercion||

    Re: replace welfare state with private charity and voluntary mutual aide

    Since the capitalist system causes privation to men forcefully disestablished from the land via the big-government enTitlement program of private property, it is morally responsible to make up for it if the system is to continue.

    Our system of private property in land forces landless men to work for others; to work in factories, stores, and offices, whether they like it or not. wherever access to land is free, men work only to provide what they actually need or desire. Wherever the white man has come in contact with savage cultures this fact becomes apparent. There is for savages in their native state no such sharp distinction between "work" and "not working" as clocks and factory whistles have accustomed the white man to accept. They cannot be made to work regularly at repetitive tasks in which they have no direct interest except by some sort of duress. Disestablishment from land, like slavery, is a form of duress. The white man, where slavery cannot be practiced, has found that he must first disestablish the savages from their land before he can force them to work steadily for him. Once they are disestablished, they are in effect starved into working for him and into working as he directs.

    ~Dr. Ralph Borsodi
    This Ugly Civilization
    Simon and Schuster | New York
    1 9 2 9

  • Hugh Akston||

    Uhhh, please don't respond to my comments. It sickens me.

  • 1% control 40% of wealth||

    The cognitive dissonance caused by holding beliefs contradictory to reality can be alleviated by checking your premises.

    "A man who is run by emotions is like a man who is run by a computer whose print-outs he cannot read."

    ~Ayn Rand, Philosophy: Who Needs It, p. 6

  • Bill Brent||

    Hugh, I've got your Ayn Rand computer print-out here for ya, jess came on on the wire.

    It reads: PWNED.

    Hope ya get well now.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    More White Indian nonsense.

  • Off-White FIFY Nonsense||

  • ||

    No, his entire post is on the money.

    It's just that it didn't remotely apply to the situation, he doesn't really believe what he typed, and he has absolutely no standing to discuss anyone's cognitive dissonance.

  • Bill Brent||

    It's just that [you wish] it didn't remotely apply to the situation.

    [fixed]

  • ||

    Who's the gimp on CBS's football pre game show? Jesus, he sounds worse than Shannon Sharpa.

    Have we gone so far PC that we are subjected to quadriplegic studio presenters that are impossible to understand?

  • ||

    Yes, we have. Ever heard Diane Rehm on NPR?

  • ||

    What the fuck is an "NPR?"

  • national pentagon radio||

  • ||

    "National Progressive Radio."

  • the city-STATE is progress...||

    ...thus, libertarians are progressives, in love with the city-STATE.

    Buncha damn STATISTS, hiding their love of aggression behind an inadequate masquerade of relio-economic bullshit dogma.

  • buddyglass||

    Maybe, just maybe, Madonna is not the liberal caricature you make her out to be and realizes that her brother does not deserve her charity in the same way an innocent child in Malawi (or anywhere else) does.

  • ||

    It's great that she understands the old distinction between the deserving and undeserving poor, a distinction squelched by progressives generations ago. But her public politics are a liberal caricature.

  • buddyglass||

    Sure. I'm just skeptical of the idea that for Madonna to allow her genetic sibling to be homeless while simultaneously pushing for government anti-poverty programs isn't necessarily hypocritical.

  • buddyglass||

    Err. I'm skeptical of the idea that it is definitely hypocritical, rather. So basically the opposite of what I just said. Ooops.

  • ||

    I dunno dude. When your sibling writes a tell all book about you, and can't hold down a job picking grapes at the family winery, that's a sign they are a bridge burning asshole. It's one thing to think that there should be programs in place to ensure that total fuckhead losers don't die in the streets, and another to think that you have to support the brother that sold you out and has probably been making a complete asshole out of himself for 55 years.

  • prolefeed||

    So, you're saying that it's moral and good for government to forcibly extract money from me under threat of throwing me in a cage, to support random fuckheads I don't know, but also moral and good for me to refuse to spend my own money for fuckheads I know personally and don't much care for?

    Fucking cognitive dissonance, how does it work?

  • Trail of Tears||

    So, you're saying that it's moral and good for government to forcibly extract money from me under threat of throwing me in a cage, to support random fuckheads I don't know, but also moral and good for me to refuse to spend my own money for fuckheads I know personally and don't much care for?

    ONLY if you're saying that it's moral and good for government to forcibly restrict the free movement of free people to forage and hunt on the land with your big-government privation property Land enTitlement program.

    Libertarians whine and whine about government force, then advocate force -- and whitewash it with libertarian magic dust -- when it suits their interests.

    Libertarianism is essentially government for me but not for thee.

  • ||

    ... there should be programs in place to ensure that total fuckhead losers don't die in the streets...

    Is human centipede a go again?

  • ||

    Toby? Toby Wong. Toby Wong? Toby Wong. Toby Chung? Fucking Charlie Chan. I got Madonna's big dick coming out of my left ear, and Toby the Jap... I don't know what - comin' out of my right.

  • ||

    Seriously, if we had to have a weekend thread, I would imagine something about the heir to the Saudi throne dying, a number of WH scandals or even just a college football open thread would have been better.

    That said, I propose the "Saturday Stemwinder" become a regular feature. If we have to have the Friday Drawing, a good Saturday Stemwinder could offset it, especially if it is an alcohol-fueled, 3 am Big Tim Cavanaugh rant against either the LAT or something stupid happening in the California government.

    Do I have a second?

  • ||

    Let's talk about this

    The incomes of America's poorest are equivalent to Brazil's middle class, China's upper class, and richer than India's upper upper class.

    Sort of puts some perspective to how stupid people are to complain about America's income inequality doesn't it?

  • ||

    The incomes of America's poorest are equivalent to Brazil's middle class, China's upper class, and richer than India's upper upper class.

    Heller, heller, heller. You missed the FDR narrative, ya know. An iPod in every household, net access is a right, "Why the fuck aren't we Western Europe yet (though we are Greece)?", and the general free-shit-for-all nonsense.

    How dare you attempt to ruin such an elaborate class envy strawman.

    Sloopington:

    I would imagine something about the heir to the Saudi throne dying

    He's playing jai alia with Muammar.

    a number of WH scandals

    Par for the course a la Mourning Links.

    college football open thread

    More proof OH is a shitty place for college football

  • ||

    In defense of the guy who killed himself: it is a viable alternative to watching The Zips play the Bobcats.

  • ||

    it is a viable alternative to watching The Zips play the Bobcats.

    Needs more promotion. Pay-per-view might be profitable.

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    Ohio is the cradle of college football...I guess it's the grave, too.

  • ||

    Oh Art! You so punny! Keep me in stitches much longer and I shalt be a grave man tomorrow.

  • ||

    Zips football seems to be doing just fine, thanks.

    Oh, you meant THAT kind...meh.

  • PantsFan||

    Nobody likes your euro turf diving here, punk.
    You might as well cheer for open-wheel racing

  • ||

    False.

  • ||

    I doubt you're surprised. I know I'm not.

    And those morons at OWS are so self-absorbed that they fail to realize it is corporations that are predominantly responsible for raising the standard of living in those shitholes to that height. It is wealth that creates the ability to assume risk to develop new and innovative products like DDT, more durable farming machinery and building materials that can be cheaply produced and extend life expectancy and improve standards of living.

    Oh, and corporations design, develop and construct their iPhones, chai lattes and cans of PBR.

  • Let's talk about empathy...||

    ...and the Libertarians' shrill shrieking to eliminate the last shred of it by any means.

  • ||

    Let's talk about timecube!

  • ||

    Officer am I free to gambol across four corner time?

  • ||

    GAMBOL ON!

    And now's the time, the time is now, to sing my song.

    I'm goin' 'round the world, I got to find my girl, on my way.

    I've been this way ten years to the day, GAMBOL ON!

    Gotta find the queen of all my dreams.

    GAMBOL ON!

  • ||

    I wonder if Peter Jackson is gonna squeeze that song into the upcoming remake of "The Hobbit?"

  • PantsFan||

    So as I'm watching Parking Wars, while I have no love for the authority behind towing vehicles, I am also find it difficult to feel sorry for these scofflaws who can't figure out why they aren't getting their cars back.
    I'm torn.

  • ||

    Since everyone else ignored you, I humbly offer my second, sloop.

  • Cristina||

    I think McCain only has one adopted daughter so the use of the plural, "children" is incorrect.

  • ||

    The incomes of America's poorest are equivalent to Brazil's middle class, China's upper class, and richer than India's upper upper class.

    I know a guy (a retired teacher!) who considers himself an impoverished member of the "99%". What a dumb fuck.

    And- as far as Madonna's money goes, she can spend it on anything she wants, but if she cannot put it to any more effective use than a four million dollar feelgood chimera, I reserve the right to ridicule her.

  • ||

    I know a guy (a retired teacher!) who considers himself an impoverished member of the "99%".

    He is aware that 100% of the population in his state is supporting his pension and health care, no? What did he want out of the deal, a Maserati?

  • juris imprudent||

    What did he want out of the deal, a Maserati?

    Then he should have become a principal or superintendent. Sheesh.

  • ||

    What did he want out of the deal, a Maserati?

    I think he must have heard about how much retired lifeguards make in California, and now he's feeling shortchanged.

  • ||

    He's also firmly in the "Corporations are evulllll! ZOMG Citizens United has wreked my beautiful nation! KOCHTOPUSSEZ!"

  • insufferable juris imprudent||

    I really love the union zombies that scream about Citizens United - apparently totally oblivious to the fact the AFL-CIO and the ACLU were on the side of CU.

  • ||

    Citizens United

    That strawman alone deserves him some serious gruel and water time in a Dickensian workhouse.

    You'd think that modern history and even evolution started with Citizen's United and everything before was just some long, antiquated footnote.

    Please tell me this fellow didn't teach Civics or some other advanced class in altruistic indoctrination.

  • ||

    What the hell? This is tabloid bullshit. If Madonna hates her brother (and I don't know how she feels, but I'll posit that) it's her business and it's her money. And she can still think she'd be willing to pay more taxes to help the other poor people (even if she regards accidentally helping her brother as well as a drawback) without that being incoherent. I'd question a proposition that paying more taxes will in fact help more poor people, but the implication that she has some moral obligation to help her brother is bizarre. I'm lucky to have good relations with my own family, but I know people who have zero contact with parents/siblings for excellent unimpeachable reasons (drug use, abuse, it really doesn't need explained to anybody with half a brain). I really enjoy the blog, but this post is a total tabloid bullshit fumble.

  • ||

    Interesting article which I weill not go back to for linky (WSJ, I believe) about how bona fide homeless people are gravitating to "OCCUPY!" encampments. One cannot help but wonder how long the true revolutionaries will be able to maintain their facade of noble generosity and universal comradeship.

  • Ice Nine||

    They can probably stretch that out for awhile longer but it's the surreptitious foot sniffing that's going to wear on them quickly.

  • ||

    Why is Rule 34 necessary when life provides so many rich and fragrant examples?

  • yonemoto||

    where's the redistributed sexual justice? To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability.

  • ||

    One cannot help but wonder how long the true revolutionaries will be able to maintain their facade of noble generosity and universal comradeship.

    Probably as long as someone else finances it, provides the land (involuntarily, I might add) for it and stokes the flames of it for their own political gain.

  • anonymous hero||

    Dear Reason (esp SD and KMW). Leave being smarmy jerks to the commenters.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah. No shit. No fan of Madonna but I'm guessing she may have more insight into her relationship with her brother than Reason. Not journalism.

  • SIV||

    If I was going to be homeless I'd move somewhere warm with great welfare benefits. Why would anyone stay in Traverse City and get frostbite? Do they have extra-cheap drugs there?

  • That Music Guy ||

    In other words, who's excited for the new Coldplay release on Monday?

  • Ice Nine||

    They're not exactly all tingly and aquiver, I'd have to say.

  • ||

    One more question (soooo thiiiiiirsteeeeeeee):

    How many of these OWS geniuses are even aware of the role played by do-gooder driven rent controls and busybody community activists' eradication of fleabag single room occupancy hotels in the phenomenon of urban homelessness?

  • ||

    "It's her herping money and she should herpington ding dong doo..."

    What-the-fuck-ever, she advocates taking your fucking paycheck at the point of a gun, but we can't even make fun of how she spends hers. Get your goddamn heads out of your fucking asses, christ.

    What goddamn Moses of libertarians said we can't call people out on their spending habits?

    Yeah, it's her goddamn money, and it's her right to spend it as she pleases(according to us, not her) and it's my goddamn right to call her a selfish stoopid bitch like your mom.

  • ||

    And another thing, everyone who peruses these here comments should be shitfaced fucking loaded from all of the "SIKHA NOT SERIOUS POP CULTURE SMASH!" concerned comment bullshit.

    So DRINK! fuckers, and get off my goddamn lawn.

  • PantsFan||

    Are you upset in advance that the Caps are going to lose to the Wings tonight?

  • ||

    I'm upset that the chances of the Flyers plane crashing into the arena Hobey Baker style and killing everybody involved are infinitesimal.

  • Dei Commentatori||

    Too soon after the Demitra crash, too soon

  • ||

    You're right, what about Hobey Baker though?

  • PantsFan||

    No, enough time has passed.
    Would also accept Brazilian soccer team.

  • ||

    Would also accept Brazilian soccer team.

    I have heard that Scott Hartnell indulges in human flesh now and again.

  • PantsFan||

    GEORGE: You know Keith, what I've always wondered, with all these ball clubs flying around all season don't you think there would be a plane crash? ...

    KEITH: (to Jerry) Do you perform anywhere in new York right now?

    JERRY: I'm performing in this club on the east Side. You should come in.

    GEORGE: But if you think about it...26 teams, 162 games a season, you'd think eventually an entire team would get wiped out.

    KEITH: You know, I live on the East Side.

    JERRY: I'll tell you what, I'll give you my number and uh, just give me a call, tell me whenever you want to go.

    KEITH: or maybe just to get together for a cup of coffee

    JERRY: Oh. that would be great.

    GEORGE: Uh, it's only a matter of time.

    KEITH: Who's this chucker?
  • ||

    Oh, and the Hobey Baker thing was in reference to a Pittsburgh play by play man making an unfortunate crack on the air.

    Can't remember the particulars, but someone got hit and went right to the ice and the announcer said, "He went down harder than Hobey Baker." People in the concerned corner of the sports world shat an egg and he had to apologize. I thought it was clever but a lot of people went all "90 years = way too fucking soon, asshole".

    I think the announcer is Lucy's uncle.

    Connections.

    True story.

  • ||

    Pens beat Devils 4-1, Uncle Daddy out; Moose in.

    Woo!

  • PantsFan||

    and the Wings choked again

  • ||

    ZIIIIIIING!!!!!!!

  • ||

    That hat-tip really went to your head, didn't it?

  • ||

    Maybe.

    **runs away, tears forming in eyes**

  • ||

    See below.

  • ||

    And it's everybodyelse's right to point out you're a moron, because just because you share some DNA with someone gives absolutely no cause or obligation to share money with them - and you don't know the Ciccone family side of the story.

    The problem is not the making fun.

    The problem is making fun in a way that is so transparently frikking moronic, Reason comes off as the idiots for posting this shit not Madonna.

  • ||

    Hey look way over there, towards the horizon, yep that's it.

    You see the guy with the .357 in his mouth?

    That's me, in the future, on the day when I came to the depressing conclusion that not only am I a moron, but that I give two shits about the "Ciccone family side of the story."

    Good thing that day is far far away.

  • ||

    I hope so, because I don't want you to feel you have to commit suicide for being a moron. Free country, you can be fucking stupid like you are and we can laugh at you.

    Everybody wins.

  • ||

    So you don't deny the thing I wrote about your mom then?

  • capitol is a big-gov't Statist||

    capitol l advocates restricting your free movement to forage and hunt at the point of a gun.

    Officer, am I free to gambol about plain and forest?

  • ||

    Please don't speak to, or of me.

    Thank you.

  • ||

    Boo. This article is terrible on so many counts, the first of which is "how is this any of your/our business?"

    Who on earth knows all the inner workings/dynamics/grudges/conflicts/unresolved conflicts in another person's family - much less the family of someone burdened with world fame?

    Who are you to judge where Madonna spends her money, and, consequently, where she withholds it? Do you even *attempt* to suss out why the singer has turned her back on her brother? There are *reasons* (something your magazine supposedly considers an important grounds for opinion) for these things - though it still remains none of your business.

    Finally, the closing 'dis' that there would be no photo-op in helping your brother is disgusting. Is Madonna running for Senate? Does she need baby-kissing pictures to boost her image for the local school board elections? No. She is, as you remind us, a multi-millionaire who could spend the rest of her days sitting on the couch watching Jeopardy in $400,000 pajamas.

    But she doesn't. And who are any of us to butt in and tell her what she should do with her time and fortune.

    Reason's articles are usually 99% persuasive and always give you cause to think. This one deserves to be chucked in the circular file. It offers nothing but scorn and resentment of a person you will never know personally.

    What a waste.
    D

  • Jeff||

    I'd normally agree, but since Madonna is such a cheerleader for the state taking your money at gunpoint and giving it to assholes you don't even know, it's kind of amusing to see that she has, for whatever reason, abandoned her own brother to homelessness.

  • the city-STATE is progress...||

    [Jeff] is such a cheerleader for the state [murdering and removing free foraging families to concentration camps and enforcing privation property laws] at gunpoint and giving it to assholes you don't even know.

    [fixed]

    Jeff = Madonna. Both Statists to the core.

  • It's not murder...||

    ...when Ayn Rand wishes it so.

    "[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land ... Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." ~Ayn Rand, United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974

    Ayn Rand was a Statist bitch.

    So are you. Your masquerade of "libert"arianism is inadequate to whitewash your love of State aggression.

  • Jeff||

    [White Indian] is such an abject retardate, I don't even know where to begin.

  • Libertarians love Statism||

    [Jeff] is such an abject retardate, I don't even know where to begin.

    Oh, wait, I do. He sucks city-Statist dick.

  • Jeff||

    Go fuck yourself, White Idiot.

  • Illogical||

    Shoddy reporting Mr. Dalmia..why wa the brother fired..why was he left out-no one just turns their back on family w/out a REASON. Don't make presumptions without doing Actual REPORTING.

    Best of luck learning how to write!,
    Someone with a brain.

  • anonymous hero||

    Ms. Dalmia usually writes insightful material, illogical. This one is just... Bad. KMW, on the other hand...

  • Jeff||

    No, she doesn't.

  • Gibreel||

    In addition to not knowing if her brother's been an asshat to her, the Malawi project could have just been a case of her being naive; unlikely she knew ahead of time that money would just be going to asshats in power rather than the little girls she wanted to help. She wanted to give to impoverished little girls, before they had a chance to grow up and be asshats...and with some education, she might have assumed that there would be at least a marginally better chance they wouldn't turn into asshats or beggars or prostitutes of some kind than if they didn't have that education. This is different than giving to her brother. If she already knew that he was an asshat than actually spending that money on little girls with the chance to improve their condition, and with less chance the hand that she feeds would come back to bite her, seems like the more rational move.

  • robc||

    unlikely she knew ahead of time that money would just be going to asshats in power rather than the little girls she wanted to help

    It was Malawi. How could she not know?

  • Gibreel||

    I wouldn't credit most celebrities with a great deal of insight into how kleptocracies or crony capitalism works.

  • Capitalism is kleptocracy||

    And it leaves a trail of tears.

  • Gibreel||

    Unlike socialism or social democracy, right? The Greeks just love their government.

  • Libertarians love Statism||

    Just like socialism or social democracy.

    Capitalism, socialism, communism, whateverism, all have restricted the free movement of free people on the Land with agricultural city-Statist aggression.

    The Libertarians just love their government when it fucks up the Indians, and then moan like a raped whore when it fucks them up.

    Think they'll ever learn the connection? I doubt it. Stupid is as stupid does.

  • Gibreel||

    "The Libertarians just love their government when it fucks up the Indians"
    Must be difficult to type with all that straw on your keyboard.

  • Gibreel||

    straw and horseshit.

  • robc||

    I wouldn't credit most celebrities

    I dont grade on a curve.

  • Gibreel||

    "I don't grade on a curve."
    Okay, but you don't honestly think Madonna put her money into this project, cynically thinking, "Hey, I've got this great plan. I'll pretend to be giving money to this project for young girls in Malawi, knowing full well it will really be going to the kleptocrats in power - the people I *really* want to have the money"?

  • ||

    I'm not going to knock her for not supporting he brother, because he's a grown man with the responsibility to make a living for himself. I AM going to knock her for giving a hundred grand to democrats.

    -jcr

  • ||

    I think most of us were simply making the point that it is not Ms Dalmia's place to conflate those two issues, since they are totally unrelated from a libertarian perspective.

  • robc||

    How are they unrelated?

    When giving money to X, it is perfectly reasonable (in fact wise) to know the character of X and whether giving the money would be a blessing or a curse.

  • Amakudari||

    “Where do you go at 8 o’clock on a Sunday morning and you have no money in your pocket?”

    How about "further away from Detroit"?

    Although, seriously, this has fuck-all to do with libertarianism.

  • ||

    How about "further away from Detroit"

    Has there ever been question where this was an incorrect answer?

  • Bingo||

    Yeah, when "further away from Detroit" means in the direction of Toledo.

  • ||

    Ok, time for a legit thread jack.

    Why the fuck does our government consider either of these nations partners in the WoT?

    Seriously, you don't need a Nobel Prize to see that we need to leave. Oh, maybe you need to not have a NPP to realize that some countries don't want us there.

  • ||

    Why the fuck does our government consider either of these nations partners in the WoT?

    I wistfully recall some trite saying about keeping friends close and enemies closer?

    Or the more nefarious and tin foil response: The US wants yet another war, and a doozy too.

    Oh, maybe you need to not have a NPP to realize that some countries don't want us there.

    If the vaunted NPP hasn't been thoroughly discredited by now, I have no idea what will finally do so.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Better threadjack:
    Roman-era couple held hands for 1,500 years

    D'awwwww.....

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    Love remains...

  • Ice Nine||

    Judging by their free hands, their mutual affection took them well beyond mere hand holding for 1500 years.

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    Good spot, Ice-Nine.

  • Colin||

    No fan of Madonna, but you don't know what the family issues are. She may have a good reason for not helping him.

    Mind your own fucking business.

  • PantsFan||

    As Libya takes stock, Moammar Kadafi's hidden riches astound
    New estimates of the former leader's assets — more than $200 billion — are called 'staggering.' If they prove true, he would rank among the world's most rapacious leaders.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....0812.story

  • Mr. FIFY||

    No wonder Calypso Louie and Rev Wright loved Qadafi so much!

  • ||

    Madonna is 53 not 50, so please post a correction - she was born August 1958.

  • Restoras||

    I'm no fan of Madonna - her politics, life, or garbage music - but I'm not sure what this hatchet job has to do with anything important.

  • Bingo||

    I swear to god if Stanford ends up going to the BCS National Championship I am going to throw a fit.

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    Why? I think the Pac-12 champ deserves another shot at the SEC champ.

  • ||

    ...seems like anyone can write an article (and make agreeing comments to) bashing famous people with out giving all the details. If the brother was let go from the father's vineyard it should trip red flags indicating the brother is nothing but trouble that Madonna's family has finally said enough is enough...the "tough love" approach is usally the last straw.

  • ||

    Maybe I'm just a coniracy theorist, but does anybody else here get the feeling Ms Dalmia is sitting at home, sipping on a cocktail and laughing her ass off at how well she trolled us today? I mean seriously, well over 200 comments with many lambasting her for taking what is obviously not a libertarian position on how someone should donate their own money.

    I'm pretty sure we all just got trolled.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Ms Dalmia is sitting at home, sipping on a cocktail...


    LIKE A BOSS!

  • Not SD?||

    Dance, puppets.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure we all just got trolled.

    Looking back over the post and comments, I tend to think you are right, Jonathan Sloopington Seagull.

    Either way, the read meat (ha!) did generate some discussion, which is the point of this forum.

  • You've got Troll||

    White Indian is sitting at home, sipping on a cocktail...

    ...trying to decide if these sophomoric morons deserve a Solar Deity holiday, SUNday, off from thinking critically.

    LoLoLoL

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Bullshit.

    White Indian would never sip a cocktail, as that would require private property rights.

    Besides, how you gonna hunt'n'gather the cocktail ingredients?

  • ||

    You have to believe your own bullshit before that becomes a problem.

  • WI not against property||

    FIFY, is your brain the size of a shriveled pea? Or do you just like to lie and misrepresent a position?

    Legitimate property: The tribal institution of “Ownership by use,” one can only “own” those things that they put to immediate, direct and personal use to meet basic needs.

    Got it? Oh, right, you're Fibertarian, and will continue to lie, because lying and obfuscating the truth is so profitable to you. Damn psychopath.

    Drawing lines on the Land and having the government enforce your monopoly Land enTitlement program isn't legitimate. It takes FORCE, and constant use of FORCE.

    ______________
    The abstract notion of ownership serves as the single, greatest perpetuator of hierarchy. When one steps back and examines the notion of “owning” something, the abstraction becomes readily apparent. Ownership represents nothing more than a power-relationship—the ability to control. The tribal institution of “Ownership by use” on the other hand, suggests simply that one can only “own” those things that they put to immediate, direct and personal use to meet basic needs—and not more. A society crosses the memetic Rubicon when it accepts the abstraction that ownership can extend beyond the exclusive needs of one individual for survival. (Read Jason Godesky on Ownership*) Abstract ownership begins when society accepts a claim of symbolic control of something without the requirement of immediate, direct and personal use. Hierarchy, at any level, requires this excess, abstract ownership—it represents the symbolic capital that forms the foundation of all stratification.

    ~Attorney-at-Law Jeff Vail
    Chapter 9 - Forward, to Rhizome
    Wednesday, March 09, 2005
    "A Theory of Power" Online
    http://www.jeffvail.net/2005/0.....nline.html

  • ||

    The tribal institution of “Ownership by use,” one can only “own” those things that they put to immediate, direct and personal use to meet basic needs.

    So, I walk around the hospital where I work. I see lots of stuff that is not being put to immediate, direct, etc. In fact, practically everything in that hospital, when its being used at all, is not being put to immediate, direct, etc.

    Consider, when we do a CAT scan, there are a number of people using the machine, but not for their direct, personal needs - they are using it to generate images that are needed by a radiologist, to create a report needed by another physician, to determine the treatment needed by the patient.

    So, I guess the CAT scanner is no one's property, and can never be anyone's property, so the hospital would have no grounds for objecting if someone were to stroll in, unbolt it, and haul it away.

  • Libertarians love Statism||

    I see lots of stuff that is not being put to immediate, direct, etc.

    Inside every Libertarian's heart is a thief.

    Their bullshit religio-economic faith tries to whitewash that with minutia.

    And then the whitewash fails. Over and over again.

    Go ahead and TAKE it, shitbird. You always want to TAKE and TAKE and get more stuff, no matter the cost to others.

    Thanks for revealing yourself for what you really are.

  • PantsFan||

    ROSAT to strike any moment now
    If you get hit by it, you can keep it.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine......nal-hours/

  • ||

    This is a cheap shot. Perhaps Madonna has offered to help him privately. Perhaps he is a major pain in the rear, as many homeless people are, driving his relatives away. Why isn't he engaged in self-sustaining employment? It is certain that the author of this hack piece doesn't know the facts. As for McCain, he's devoted himself to getting a lot more kids killed by the American military than he could possibly raise.

    Reason does publish some awful rubbish.

  • Mr. FIFY||

  • Paul||

    Horrible article. We have no idea what their relationship is like. And I don't give a shit how much money Madonna has given to the Democratic campaign. Madonna has donated a considerable amount to charity (no specific evidence, google). However she has shown a considerable amount of diligence when it comes to her foreign charities. She donates a lot to Africa, and has shut down operations where corruption has been observed (common in Africa). Cut her some slack.

  • rather||

    I agree. I can't believe this is libertarianism...Actually, principles are as flexible here as they are in any other party

  • Private Idaho||

    It isn't libertarianism. The obligation of being "your brother's keeper" is standard Christian dogma: altruism. It has no legitimate place in "libertarian" ethics (their inconsistency and "flexibility" notwithstanding). Dalmia seems to have phoned in this cheap bit of gossip as filler material; throwing in the obligatory "Material Girl" reference in the lede places this third-rate hackery in the dregs of the barrel.

  • Randroid Alert||

    altruism. It has no legitimate place

    Objectivism: the religio-economic dogma of fucking people with government aggression, and not having that aggression bother your conscience one iota.

    "[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights ... Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." Ayn Rand, speech to the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974

    Ayn Rand was an aggressive Statist bitch advocating genocide.

  • Dan||

    When your father fires you and leaves you homeless, and your billionaire sister won't do anything to help you... odds are you're a douchebag.

    Families pretty much don't act like that, otherwise.

  • The Art-P.O.G.||

    Pretty much my take, too.

  • ||

    The stimulus cost more than the Iraq war. Even I wouldn't have guessed that. It also puts lie to the liberal bullshit that Iraq cost "trillions". It didn't. And the stimulus cost more in two years that the war did in eight.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.co.....-iraq-war/

  • ||

    The stimulus cost more than the Iraq war. Even I wouldn't have guessed that. It also puts lie to the liberal bullshit that Iraq cost "trillions". It didn't. And the stimulus cost more in two years that the war did in eight.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.co.....-iraq-war/

  • MNG||

    Is the right saying CBO numbers are reliable this week?

  • ||

    I know, right?
    How about this: the stimulus plan(s) cost a metric shitton of money and ended up being pretty fucking useless. AND, the Iraq war cost a metric shitton of money and ended up being pretty fucking useless.

    There. I gave the libertarian position. You two can go back to your lemon party now.

  • MNG||

    Sloop
    If you go back to when the stimulus came out you'll see I opposed it, and I haven't changed that. The only part I liked was the tax cuts and there won't enough of 'em imo.

  • ||

    The real scandal is that in a country where the per capita income is less than $1,000, this school would have been built for $37,500 per student.

  • MNG||

    I agree with Epi this is a pretty silly post. Who cares what Madonna does with her money? I see a lot of people posting some rambling bit of logic rape like "Madonna gives money to a party which takes money from the wealthy and gives it to the moochers and then won't give money to her moocher bro, so GOTCHA liberals" or something. This is silly because you don't know WHY she gives money to Democrats. Political parties take lots of stances on numerous issues, maybe she could give a rat's ass about taxation and she is motivated by, say, the Democrats position on gay rights relative to the GOP. But hey, let your assumptions fly, it's what the right leaners around here do...

  • ||

    You can't judge her for not giving money to her brother because you don't know the full story. Maybe giving money to him just enables bad habits and does more harm than good. Maybe he beat the hell out of her when she was a kid. Unless you are part of the family and know the full story, you can't judge her.

  • MNG||

    I agree, people disown family for a variety of reasons. Who knows what happened here? I guess the complaint is that she is willing to give money to people she doesn't even know, some of whom may have done what she hates in her brother or worse. But still, the mere fact she won't support her brother without more of the story says little.

  • MNG||

    What do Americans hate more: Washington or Wall Street?

    Big Government — in the form of the far-away monarchy in London — was the initial focus of Americans’ loathing of bigness...The rise of genuine Big Business in the late 19th century provided an alternate target for America’s hostility to bigness... Progressives took up the practice of employing Hamiltonian means to achieve Jeffersonian ends, utilizing government as an ally of the people against the excesses of Big Business.

    Big Government grew in popularity with Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society programs in the 1960s...77 percent of Americans said they trusted their government.

    But the innumerable deceits of Johnson and Nixon eventually combined to destroy that trust. By 1974, public confidence in government had fallen to 36 percent.

    In the 30 years since Reagan’s election, the success of Big Money in the battle of the beasts has been extraordinary. For all the hue and cry from the right about taxation, federal tax receipts actually fell by 4.1 percentage points as a proportion of GDP. Over the same years, the share of national income going to the richest 1 percent has more than doubled, from 10 percent to 21 percent.

    The collapse of the economy in 2008 provided an opportunity to restore public faith in Big Government, similar to what occurred in the 1930s after that economic catastrophe. All the ingredients were there for President Obama and his party to make it happen.

    But they aren’t — in part because of the relentless propaganda from the right, but also because the American public has yet to see the government as being on its side against the Interests on Wall Street

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ml?hpid=z3

  • ||

    The collapse of the economy in 2008 provided an opportunity to restore public faith in Big Government, similar to what occurred in the 1930s after that economic catastrophe.

    No it didn't for two reasons. First, we already had a big government in 2009. In 1932 we didn't. So people were more willing to try it and believe in it. Second, Obama and the left didn't have any new ideas. What was needed was not a repeat of the New Deal. But some genuinely new ideas of how to use government. And no one has them. All they had was the same stuff from forty years ago. In their defense, I don't think there are any new ideas to be had. It has all been tried. But liberals always claim to be so smart. I guess it is their job to come up with them. And they failed.

  • MNG||

    I do think this is a glaring error the article makes, unlike in 1932 when the economy tumbled there was a big government in place with its fingers in the pies that went sour, so one can just as easily contruct a narrative where the government is at fault here. His tax reciepts data may be correct, I don't know, but it's hard to argue we didn't have a big government when this went down to people who have the government telling them they can't buy the light bulbs they want and such...

  • ||

    And the Left got an 800 billion dollar stimulus and a huge health care plan. What did they not get that they wanted? If those programs had worked as advertised, people would have lots of faith in government. Liberals lost the argument and people don't have faith in government because the government is failing them.

  • [fixed]||

    If [Capitalism] had worked as advertised, people would have lots of faith in the ["free" market.] [Capitalists] lost the argument and people don't have faith in [markets] because the [market] is failing them.

    [fixed]

  • ||

    Capitalism has worked fabulously. Even in this horrible recession 85% of the people still have jobs and we still have a great standard of living.

  • MNG||

    Big government has worked fabulously. Even in this horrible recession 85% of the people still have jobs and we still have a great standard of living.

    You see the problem with your line there I hope...

  • ||

    Except that everyone doesn't' depend on government for a living. I would say the 86% of economic activity that is not big government deserves the lion's share of the credit for that.

  • MNG||

    But John, we've just had cons telling us in the recent debates about the ever-growing share of the economy that is government...If you are pointing to the success of that government-laden economy, then...

  • ||

    I think 26% is way too large. And that doesn't count state and local. And of course we can't afford what we have.

  • MNG||

    John, I realize how factually challenged you are, but, what do YOU get when you add 86% and 25%?

    It's bad enough you molest logic, but must you rape math?

  • MNG||

    So the government share is "way too large" but you also hold that this system has "worked fabulously. Even in this horrible recession 85% of the people still have jobs and we still have a great standard of living."

    Nice logic there.

  • prolefeed||

    No, what he is saying is that things are going relatively well despite the government raking off and wasting a significant chunk of economic output, and that if this theft of resources was cut back, things would be even better.

    But understanding that would involve you understanding what John said, rather than what you wish he said so you could pretend he makes no sense.

  • John is a big-gov't Statist||

    everyone doesn't' depend on government

    Bullshit.

    You depend on government aggression every day to maintain your big-government Land enTitlement to privation property.

    Officer, am I free to gambol about plain and forest?

  • MNG||

    At the time of the bailout many big liberal commentators and many pols complained about it John, that it was not big enough, that it had too many tax cuts relative to spending, etc. You know that.

  • ||

    As I said above, the stimulus cost more than the entire Iraq war. That is pretty large. And further, there is not a shred of evidence it did any good. No matter how big it was, its supporters could have always made the counter factual claim that it would have worked if it had only been large enough. So what?

    People lost faith in government because there are no new ideas and the ones that exist failed just like they have in the past.

  • MNG||

    Those counter-factual negatives are popular, I've seen you make them quite a bit when I point out areas where the economy boomed during times of big government or did not during free market policies, you say "that happened despite all the good my favored policy was doing" or you say "well, it didn't go far enough!" supporters of the stimulus say the same thing dude.

  • ||

    So it is a draw. How about we not go into crushing debt that threatens are credit rating? The stimulus people are the ones demanding we spend money. They are the ones who should have to make the case that it does any good, not the people who say save the money.

  • MNG||

    Its a draw between the two religiously oriented sides, each side does the same tricks, they can just point to any failure and say "didn't go far enough" and with any success they can say "happened despite polic x I abhor."

    Luckily I'm not religious either way. I imagine markets are usually the better way to go but not in the absolutist, perfect correlation fashion many here propose.

    There are historical examples a plenty for everyone. For me I knew market fundamentalism was no good after so many of those guys screamed and pulled their hair about how Clinton's BIGGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY was going to ruin us. When it didn't I learned a lesson: reality is more complex than any religious, absolutist ideas. Don't worry, I feel the same way about silly Marxists and Keynesian absolutism.

  • ||

    OK, if its a draw, doesn't the tie go to the side that doesn't want to spend other people's money and/or go deeper into debt?

  • MNG||

    There are two sides to a ledger RC, when one is in debt spending less is an intuitive position but so is taking in more. I'm afraid your side which rejects one side of the ledger wholesale is not to be taken seriously in the debt argument. You want a smaller government for other ideological reasons, you don't care about the debt so much or else you wouldn't take every attempt to address it on the other side of the ledger and toss it so casually.

  • ||

    They claimed it wasn't big enough, but what evidence do they have that is true other than faith? And further, unless there is some magic point at which all of the good that can come from the stimulus happens and none before that, what they got should have shown some success.

    You would think after the experience of Japan in the 1990s who faced an asset bubble and spent like there was no tomorrow only to see stagnation and the experience of the US in the 1970s and now, people would finally give up on this nonsense.

  • MNG||

    This article is simplistic at times but a point it makes that I've tried to make here often is the one about the relationship liberals have with the government. Liberals don't love government per se, think of the classic liberal group the ACLU, they have successfully sued the government in the name of individuals more than any other organization I can think of. But liberals are willing to make a "deal with the Devil" in using government to combat Big Business and other "traditional forms of oppression" like sexist and racist attitudes (which have been fostered by government btw).

    My beef with many liberals is when they forget that this is, at best, a deal with the f*cking Devil, that the government is always a potential Satan and must be used reluctantly and with great oversight.

  • ||

    There have been more recent economic studies that show that wealth disparity has decreased, despite a period in the 1970's when the was some increase in disparity. Sorry, I can' t provide a link but it's a little too hard to pull off when posting from my phone -- it was covered in a recent episode of the EconTalk podcast.

    My big takeaway from that podcast wasn't that there's a study disputing this common liberal talking point. Instead, Tue most interesting part was the discussion of the subjectivity of any methodology that tries to track wealth changes over a time period of length.

  • ||

    Madonna ,no one has backed you through the years more than me, but remember one thing Blood is thicker than Water.

  • JOhnny MAckson||

    Like a Virgin? More like I Am a Virgin! Srsly, over 300 comments on a Madonna article? You Camille Paglias have no shame. LOL

    Jess
    www.anymouse.com

  • ||

    mr pink already cleared up the whole "like a virgin" thing for me, thx

  • Ice Nine||

    How to clear out Occupy Wall Street protestors

  • Dean||

    Not that it matters to this story, but Madonna did not spend all her time as a kid in Bay City. She graduated high school in Rochester.

  • ||

    There's alway two sides to the story, there must be a reason Madonna has ditched her bro....

  • ||

    if its a draw, doesn't the tie go to the side that doesn't want to spend other people's money and/or go deeper into debt?

    Now you're just being silly.

  • ||

    Yeah, if you take that view how are we going to punish the rich?

    Also, because I don't believe it's been mentioned: Why does Shikha care what Madonna does with her money? This article doesn't have anything to do with libertarianism. We don't know the "Ciccone family side of the story" either!
    /tard

  • ||

    You're free, little brother!

    “In Iraq, we’ve succeeded in our strategy to end the war,” President Barack Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address.

    The U.S. has “invested too little in the greatest source of our national strength -- our own people,” Obama said. There must be renewed focus on the economy, he said, urging Congress to pass his $447 billion jobs proposal.

    Now we can get down to business in the war on widows and orphinks.

  • ||

    The HORROR

    Recently, the New York Times ran a story suggesting that Cain's use of humor and choice of words might not be so funny. At issue was Cain's announcement that his Secret Service codename should be "Cornbread" and his use, often before white audiences, of phrases like "shucky-ducky." He also claims that he likes to wear gold because it looks good against his "beautiful dark skin," and he likens himself to Haagen-Dazs black walnut ice cream because he is, he claims, not just a flavor of the month.

    For some people, these are nothing more than charming phrases; but for others, they raise the specter of race in ways that are unsettling. For example, "shucky-ducky" is a nonsensical phrase often associated with uneducated Southern blacks. Cain's wish to be called "cornbread" is also troubling, since it can be viewed, like watermelon and fried chicken, as a stereotype applied to blacks.

    These are not the stereotypes we're looking for.

  • ||

    Damn, I'm hungry after reading that. I do loves me some fried chicken, collards and watermelon. Keep the cornbread, though, unless you got a big ass pot of chili going.

  • 0x90||

    You're insane. Cornbread by itself is good, but -- warm, buttered, and with honey...

  • Ice Nine||

    "cornbread" is also troubling, since it can be viewed, like watermelon and fried chicken, as a stereotype applied to blacks.

    "Can be viewed" - like if you try really, really hard in your perpetual quest for a racial insult to hop on.

    And where do Blacks get off claiming those anyway? I'm lily white and I grew up on cornbread, fried chicken and watermelon. I don't know too many white folk - especially from the midwest - who didn't.

  • ||

    But I see the very real and troubling possibility that Cain's use of vernacular, and his casual assertion of a desire to be called "Cornbread," may be ploys to put potential donors — many of them wealthy conservative whites with few, if any, ties to any black community — at ease. The fact is that Cain has been relying on the support of his conservative, wealthy allies, many of whom have political goals that are diametrically opposed to those of most black Americans, who tend to be troubled by economic inequality and favor more income distribution.

    Holy race traitors, Batman!

  • ||

    "ties to the black community"

    What does that even mean?

  • ||

    It means one bows and scrapes whenever Jesse Jackson tells him to.

  • ||

    Joking aside, many phrases like that are uttered every day without anybody calling the speaker out.

    Maybe I ain't no big New York City linguist like Noam Chomsky, but that phrase seems nonsensical.

  • ||

    but that phrase seems nonsensical.

    Ain't it the truth, cap l? Another feel good, nonsensical phrase that gets my goat is "keeping it in the community." And the granddaddy of them all, bastardized by many a "concerned displaced group", is: "We've achieved so much but we've still got a long way to go!" I ask, to where are you going and why?

    As you know cap l, the point of nonsensical, tribal, feel-goodisms is the same as formal and informal logical fallacies: to sway the reader or listener to a certain point of view, since winning a heart to an argument is often easier than winning a mind.

    I have yet to hear what and where the destination is, exactly, since when TEAMS RED and BLUE give specifics to their ideas, votes tend to dry up and populism remains the ever present fragrance of the day.

  • ||

    Would this be like Joe Lieberman saying his secret service name should be "Matzah Ball?"

  • ||

    No, "Latkes" would be more appropriate. He probably uses applesauce on his latkes, too. Sour cream is obviously the only way to go.

  • ||

    Maybe there is a very good reason why she had to disengage and not be an enabler. Before you start judging what she isn't doing, maybe you should delve a little deeper into why he lost his job and chooses to be homeless and a "victim".

  • ||

    Also, because I don't believe it's been mentioned: Why does Shikha care what Madonna does with her money? This article doesn't have anything to do with libertarianism. We don't know the "Ciccone family side of the story" either!

  • ||

    This is what the world inside Albert R Hunt's head looks like:

    Income and wealth inequality in the United States have been growing for decades with little public outcry. The catalyst for the movement now is that during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, there is a perception that Wall Street and the wealthy were taken care of while average folks suffered.

    That isn’t a fringe view.

    Wall Street generally has flourished since the government rescue of 2008, and the big banks have posted record profit and booming bonuses. Although Goldman Sachs Group reported a rare quarterly loss last week, Lloyd C. Blankfein, its able chairman and chief executive officer, was paid $19 million for his work last year, up 50 percent from the year before. Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase was awarded $23 million in compensation. A prime target of the protesters in New York is John A. Paulson, the hedge fund billionaire who made a fortune betting on the mortgage debacle, assisted by a sweetheart deal from his banker.

    In good times it’s considered class warfare to rail against successful leaders who have added value. There have been few complaints about the wealth that accrued to Bill Gates of Microsoft, Steven P. Jobs of Apple or Jack Welch of General Electric. When taxpayers directly facilitate that success and companies then lavish massive payouts on executives, it would be naïve not to expect public resentment.

    Jack Welch? Seriously?

  • ||

    "When taxpayers directly facilitate that success and companies then lavish massive payouts on executives, it would be naïve not to expect public resentment."

    Sounds like an excellent reason to rail against the people who directly lavished that success with taxpayers' money.

    But the people who were responsible for that all had a Pennsylvania Avenue business address--they weren't from Wall Street.

    Occupy Pennsylvania Avenue!

  • ||

    "ties to the black community"

    What does that even mean?

    There is a missing word: approved.

    wealthy conservative whites with few, if any, approved ties to any black community

    See? It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

  • Guest||

    Professor do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    Professor: Sure, I'll play along.

    Did you support Obamacare?

    Professor: Yes.

    Then you do not accept freewill and you are a potential tyrant.

    Professor: You just flunked this course pal.


    Hey climate scientist, do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    Climate scientist: I don't believe a Creator exist let alone that one allows freewill.

    AGW Skeptic: Einstein was right: Science without the [Creator] is blind and religion without the [Creator] is lame.

    Climate scientist: Silence skeptic! We must sacrifice your rights and do what's best for society as we see fit. Don’t you know science is a democracy fool!

    AGW Skeptic: Ben Franklin was right.

    CRU emails: Burn the Skeptic’s book!!


    Hey Hillary, Nancy, Harry, Obama, progressive intellectuals and Dems, do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    Choir: We must sacrifice the rights of the individual and do what’s best for society.

    Who decides what’s best? Certainly not society -see Obamacare.

    Choir: From one, many -see Obamacare.

    Al Gore: e pluribus unum - from one, many. The science is settled! Everybody knows science is a democracy - the skeptics are trying to turn science upside down - leading to backwards conclusions.

    Saul Alinsky: Pick a target, freeze it, smear it, ridicule it.

    Professor: The founders were racist capitalist pig slave holders.

    Common Sense: I see a pattern: Professor with all due respect the Founding Fathers knew they couldn’t fight the Civil War before the American Revolution or shortly thereafter and remain United States. They were wise enough to put mechanisms in place though.

    Hey JournoList, do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    JournoList: We must sacrifice the profession and do what is best for society.

    Hey Bill O'Really, Dr. K., FOX News, do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    FOX Choir: Why do they even have all these debates? Don't the people know Romney is inevitable....it's inevitable that Romney is inevitable...Romney is the only inevitable candidate....Romney...Romney.....Romney....

    Hey King George III, do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    King George III: I will squash you for even suggesting it is not my divine right to rule over you.

    Hey Islamic radicals. Do you believe Our Creator allows freewill?

    Radical Islam _____________

  • ||

    Also, because I don't believe it's been mentioned: Why does Shikha care what Madonna does with her money? This article doesn't have anything to do with libertarianism. We don't know the "Ciccone family side of the story" either!

  • There is no "we"||

    The Libertarian answer is obvious: let's give Madonna a big fat tax cut so that she can creat jobs for people like her brother by way of "trickle down economics."

    We can pay for it by borrowing money from China. Or firing teachers. Or raising taxes on Americans who are too poor right now to trigger federal income tax liabilities.

  • Double D||

    Quick bubble burster for you pal...I have certain income that is not taxable, yet I am far from poor and make well above the median income in "allowances" and other bennies. I always get a refund of more than I put in, because the goverment only looks at my total "taxable" income. Though I happily take full advantage of this situation, I can hardly call it fair (except when I do combat tours).

  • Double D||

    To clarify, that was meant for "There is no we." And the point is, not everyone who is getting more than they put in back is "poor."

  • Bill3||

    Although I hate people that spend more money in foreign charities than in American charities, I'll give Madonna a break since I don't know much about her relationships with her brother. Was her brother nice to her? Did she support her when she was poor? Did he made fun of her? Karma's a bitch.

  • ||

    #Occupy Madonna

  • Hate Potion Number Nine||

    I'm sure many have already

  • ||

    You might want to get both sides of the story. I live in the town where he does. He is on the street by CHOICE.Yes, there are many many services for homeless here, unlike any anywhere else. Where else can you be put up for the night with a free home cooked meal, with games, movies haircuts and massages? Where else can you go and get better healthcare than working people and NOT have to pay a dime. We also have an extremely nice homeless shelter. BUT to stay in the churches at night and the homeless shelters, you have to be clean and sober. Many many people have tried to help him and have spent many dollars doing so. He chooses not to help himself. He scams money from his friends who don’t have anything. He knows when their social security checks come in and calls them repeatedly to “borrow” money and never pay it back. His friends that died, chose to die. Many people and agencies did everything possible to help them, but they drank themselves to death. The friend who lost his toes, had fallen asleep in the snow because he was so intoxicated. Get real. Madonna is NOT to blame. There comes a point when you have to wash your hands of family who are using in order to save your self. Madonna’s priorities are in the right place, her children. Unfortunately and as sad as it is, people die from addiction. It's Madonna's money. She can choose how to spend it. That's the beauty of being an American.

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Video Game Nation: How gaming is making America freer – and more fun.
  • Matt Welch: How the left turned against free speech.
  • Nothing Left to Cut? Congress can’t live within their means.
  • And much more.

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement