Ron Paul Rocks the Debates, Draws Fire, and if He Wins Iowa? Never Mind!
Ron Paul staked out the grounds of his immovable Ron Paul-ness last night at the last (Allah be praised!) GOP candidate debate before the Iowa caucus on January 3.
The all-Paul version of the debate:
Some highlights: They tried to make Paul pledge to support the eventual nominee, and he refused (while getting crowdlove by saying any one of them can beat Obama). He staked out how he's too different from the others to get behind them: "I emphasize civil liberties and a pro-American foreign policy, which is different from being policeman of the world….The philosophy I'm talking about is the Constitution and freedom…it brings people together, brings independents into the fold, even Democrats on some of these issues…[I'm] very electable, it's the American philosophy, it's the rule of law, we ought to balance the budget, and opens door for supporting my willingness to cut $1 trillion the first year."
He was challenged on his anti-Gingrich ads (and stressed that working for Fannie and Freddie isn't working in the private sector) and his belief in earmarks. On that, Paul says he's never been anti-earmarks in principle and believes it's a positive good that Congress should be able to shape spending rather than the executive, and repeated that, however, he never actually votes for the spending even if he inserts earmarks in the spending bill.
He was reluctant to run roughshod over the courts via Congress, and stood firm (in a move that, as if he's never said such things before, led many pundits to declare, ooo, he killed his chances right there) on not spoiling for a war with Iran, which does not actually have and is not close to having nukes.
Paul uses a question about the Supreme Court (pick your dreamiest Justice!) to lecture us on the bad effects of splitting liberty into personal and economic components, which he charges most justices do. Thus Paul declares them all good and all bad in some respects.
*Ron Paul in the Hannity spin room after the debate last night, getting annoyed and dealing with the questions of "Iran swears it will wipe Israel off the map" and old newsletters. One might almost imagine Paul doesn't like Hannity very much from the body language and tone, which was fun to see:
In other Paul talk:
*The Wall Street Journal saith: Paul can't win, he doesn't support war sufficiently.
*Paul Krugman saith: Ron Paul is a nut to fear unrestricted paper money, and inflation is not threatening the commonwealth, but credits Paul by saying "his economic doctrine has, in effect, become the official G.O.P. line."
*Michael Tomasky spews the rage of the establishment liberal against Paul, calling him a "batty reactionary" and a "pestilential little locust." Are we in a Party Re-Education Session, Comrade Tomasky? Jeez. Tomasky is obsessed with the notion that all "hipsters" of Los Feliz, Willamsburg and the San Fran Mission District are abandoning liberalism for Paul, and it's pissing him the hell off. (He has a very small point on that, but via Facebook, where I learn everything I know about reality these days, for every hipster who dares speak in defense of Paul, a dozen scream and cry and rend their garments.) It seems to upset Tomasky that anyone might politically privilege liberty and not killing lots of people over making rich people give other people things.
Anyway, while it is assuredly true that people who think like Tomasky should not support Ron Paul, some of his reasons given are absurd--like conflating a lack of belief in hate crime laws with a lack of belief in laws against assault, snidely mumbling about "the question of what exactly it is about civil disobedience that's libertarian" (the part that valorizes liberty and justice over the state, Mr. Tomasky, that's where civil disobediance and libertarianism meet).
Anyway, says the very high school-sounding Tomasky, Paul's "being antiwar" is "really less brave than it looks. There has always been an isolationist strain in the GOP, so it was always clear that he'd have a base of support there to watch his back against the neocons. And besides, the war turned out to be highly unpopular, which worked out very nicely for him."
I wonder if Tomasky saw the parts of last night's debate about Iran? Does he still think it isn't brave of Paul to stake out that position? And that last sentence…well, sure, we can't give anyone credit for sticking to a position when they turn out to actually be right about what a bad idea war was; that just makes it too easy. Think of how brave those who doggedly insist that war is right and will always be right are! After all, the shitty results might make them have to back down on their position. Paul, that coward, faces no such risks on his lucky-guess about war. Except more of this desperate crap from people fighting to keep the all-important "hipster" vote in the Democratic warfare/welfare fold.
*Paul rising, Gingrich and Romney falling, in latest New Hampshire polling from Rasmussen; Paul now at 18.
*National Review trying to squash Paul third party rumors, though Paul himself never swears he absolutely won't do it. But his campaign says: "Asking this question over and over again of a candidate who's actually doing quite well in competing for the Republican nomination is both silly and insulting," the source says. "Is anyone asking Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich about running third-party if they don't get the nomination?"
*CNN: the GOP has to face the very real possibility of a Paul win in Iowa.
*Salon on the analogies between Paul '12 and Jesse Jackson in '88, with the discouraging-for-Paul-fans historical fact that Paul could, like Jackson, actually win a bunch of states and still eventually fade in favor of the establishment candidate.
*The New Yorker notes how much his own party hates Paul, and muses on the meaning of Paul's love for Bastiat's The Law, managing to give some feeble hat tips toward Paul's good qualities:
[His fans] love that he's not owned by and not for sale to any corporate interests—and for this reason, as well as his isolationist repudiation of America's post-9/11 wars, he draws followers from the ranks of Occupy Wall Street protesters as well as from the Tea Party. And the conspicuous (and, frankly, inexcusable) extent to which he's been ignored by the national press has only confirmed the conviction of his supporters that he is speaking truth to power.
Lately, for instance, he has been on a tear against the legalization by Congress (with Obama Administration support) of indefinite detention without charge of suspects in terrorism cases under the National Defense Authorization Act. "This should be the biggest news going right now—literally legalizing martial law," Paul says. A good point: we should leave it to our enemies to announce and define themselves by such laws, and the fact that Paul is the only Presidential candidate to call attention to the outrage makes it an even greater cause for despair.
*Rachel Maddow, like Chris Matthews, wants to assure us all: a Ron Paul win in Iowa won't mean anything at all, heh heh, nervous laugh, and ain't it funny how both me and my arch-enemies at Fox want to ensure you are already all on the same page on this whole silly issue of, heh heh, Ron Paul winning Iowa? Pshaw, who cares, you know? (Rush Limbaugh feels the same way too):
*Paul's campaign is throwing a Tea Party day moneybomb today, which is at $1.5 million right now. Not on target to challenge his biggest-in-history single day take on Tea Party Day 2007 of over $6 million, but nice, and who knows what the rest of the day may bring.
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Ron Paul maybe winning in Iowa?
I'm stuck in a daydream, right?
People are waking up.
I'm definately getting a more open-minded response from people when I mention Paul than I was getting four years ago.
He can't be explained in simple sound bites, so it has taken time to get the message across.
oh yea? "pestilential little locust"
Stop saying bad things about yourself. It's not polite.
Stop saying bad things about yourself. It's not polite.
Awesome nom du comment. You should start using it, o3.
Take his stance on drugs. It gets twisted into "Ron Paul wants to legalize drugs because he wants people to do drugs".
He has finally been able to defend his stance on the principle of self ownership, and some people are coming around.
Or 9-11 "Ron Paul says we deserved what happened" which is of course bullshit. Keep poking a dog with a stick and while you don't deserve to have your face ripped off, it just might happen.
One hardcore conservative at my work is even coming around. I explained it this way -
Self ownership and non-aggression. And he said "And everything follows from there."
FREEEE-DDDDOOOOOOMMM!
I prefer liberty to freedom.
Freedom is often twisted to mean positive rights. Like the freedom to get free medical care, or freedom from responsibility.
It's hard to twist the concept of liberty.
LLIIIIIBBBERRRR-TTTTTTYYYYYY!
Well, of course you're in favor. It's everybody else we need to convince.
Uh, yes you do.
I've found the reasons to discard him have moved from the quasi-substantive to, generally, he's too old.
So now we need to convince people that he's really only 56.
Breaking news: some bigwigs associated with the whole mortgage crisis fiasco have finally been charged with crimes!
So which big Wall Street entites did they work for you may ask? Why, none other than Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac!!
I can't wait to hear what Krugnuts and all the other lefties are going to have to say about this, as they've been claiming that these guys had nothing whatsoever to do with the crisis.
Krugman and Pinkos Incorporated (get it?): "Well, it actually turns out that Fannie Mac and Freddie Mae are ACTUALLY ACTUAL private corporation company enterprises capitalistically making capitalistic decisions and stuff and getting, like, money. The government is totally blameless, since Fannie Mac and Freddie Mae were insufficiently under its control, and the rogue elements drove it to commit capitalistically awful capitalistic atrocities against humanity."
Oh, and stupid me for forgetting the conclusion: "... so, therefore, tax the rich, buy an Obama sticker, and report your local tea-baggers on the Obama website."
You forgot "It's the Libertarians fault".
One correction: turns out these guys aren't being charged with crimes, but the government has filed civil suits against them. Which will actually be easier to prove in court than criminal charges.
Which means nothing to those corrupt corporatist. With civil suits they'll get fined millions ....for stealing billions from the american people.
It's the same as me going to a bank and robbing a million dollars and the police writes me a thousand dollar ticket as my only punishment.
What? People should take personal responsibility for their finances and not buy things they can't afford, like a 10$ an hour employee in 400K house, and the goeverment should not encourage this by backing the loan. Careful, you might be a nutjob too!
We should just go jujitsu on them then: "OK, I guess we agree on one area where we should have a lot of new regulations for unbridled dog-eat-dog robber-baron capitalism. Lets regulate the living shit of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
Last night was sickening. They were literally clamoring over eachother to be the first to declare war on Iran, and maybe Venezuela, too, for murky reasons.
Shit, Santorum (but I repeat myself) has practically promised to commence bombing on Day 1, and it gets him applause. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!
How can the GOP be so militant they want more wars and even bigger military? How can anyone think those are good ideas?
I don't understand. Will one of the resident neo-cons please enlighten me?
They think it sounds good b/c they're not actually doing the fighting.
How can the GOP be so militant they want more wars and even bigger military? How can anyone think those are good ideas?
While not a neo-con (or conservative), from my experience on conservative forums, the average conservative truly believes that the Islamic nations are conspiring for world domination. It's easy to understand this, seeing how many media outlets present this perception on a daily basis. To them, not going to war is allowing for the next Nazi Germany to begin attacking.
Couple this with the religious element inherent in many conservatives and the Middle East/Israel relationship further motivates them to support intervention on the side of "God's chosen".
Religionists (not to be confused with those who may subscribe to a particular religion) don't like competition, and American religionists have been convinced that Islamic religionists are out for world domination.
I don't know.
I will admit to being pro-Iraq war when it first started, but since then, seeing the resulting quagmire, the astronomical cost, the steady drip of dead U.S. soldiers (and all that we "accomplished" can be destroyed in a few weeks time if the conditions suddenly take a turn for the bad...which I believe they eventually will). I've now learned how naive I was. All wars now lead to expensive, murky nation building for the U.S. They are inseparable concepts.
I don't know how others could watch Iraq and Afghanistan play out after all these years and not see that.
Not a Neo-con, but I'll try to put on my Neo-con hat.
Ahem. The military doesn't just kill people. They spread democracy. You may be wondering how. The answer is simple: by killing "bad" people. Once the "bad" people are all dead, the remaining people will naturally gravitate towards democracy, which will be overseen by American military commanders and State department functionaries.
I am pretty sure that if you write freedom on the side of the bomb that you are fixin' to drop on a Muslim it is going to help world relations.Operation save the children fuzzy puppy part 5.
It was truly sickening, Gojira. But, in a way, it brings me peace. If people can hear him speak and not see the truth in what he says, I wash my hands of America. There is no hope for it.
God, if you're up there hanging with Zeus and shit, please, let Paul utterly ravage all the others in Iowa!
Amen.
But haven't you heard the morning news? If he does win Iowa that just makes Iowa irrelevant to the rest of the race.
And if he pulls it off and gets the nomination, we'll just declare Obama emperor and fuck the elections, so they'll also be totally irrelevant and will mean nothing.
/NYT
Then praise be to God, Zeus and the gang, and please let Ron Paul win the whole damn thing.
Yep.
It can't be the talking heads and journalists who for months have been saying that Paul can't win that would be irrelevant in the event of a Paul victory in Iowa; it's definitely the voters.
the highlight vid is 18 minutes long. about 17 minutes longer than usual. that's a good sign.
Totally OT. I've always kinda liked Audis (although their current front end puts me off), but now I kinda like them more:
In a frank conversation with MSN writer Lawrence Ulrich, Audi of America President Johan de Nysschen has said that the Chevy Volt will fail and that anybody who buys the car is an idiot. Not only that, de Nysschen has lumped proponents of any type of electric car into a category of "intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are."
http://www.simplygreen.co.za/i.....diots.html
Savor the final sentence from the greenie author, whining that Audi is being "mean".
It's decided. My next car will be an Audi as long as this guy still works for them.
Yeah, I was already planning on the A6 for my next ride. Course the R8 would be sweeter but that's not happing.
I want to buy a second-hand 2002 Lincoln Town Car and outfit it for modern electronics just for the fuck of it -- that's one sexy car, but yeah, that guy's a fucking badass
Do you like prunes?
The RS8 makes me go crazy. O- 60 in sub 4 second range. AHHHH.... Yes....
I feel really bad now. Barack ran me into the fucking ditch and I can't get out -- meanwhile he takes a Hawaiian vacation. SHIT!
I was behind one in the turn lane the other day. Sweet can't begin to describe the sound.
Let me get this straight: a guy who runs a car company tells the greenies their bullshit is bullshit, and CNN and MSNBC and the NYT and all the rest don't blow up in fury and moral anguish? Wow.
Jesus. I just had a great idea. Market and sell a car that looks and sounds like a hybrid but actually isn't.
Mazda is kind of doing that. We just bought my wife a new Mazda 3 with this new "skyactive" engine design, and it gets 40 mpg on the highway, even though there's nothing hybrid about it at all.
It's got to be marketed as green and hippie. Recycled stuff all over, green exterior as the only option, Apple-based radio and computing. GPS that automatically tracks Stupefy protests.
That's kind of why we bought it; because it gets great mileage without looking like that. It looks like a regular, reasonably sporty Mazda 3.
It's like a lot of green initiatives. Like recycling. Often, the process is more destructive to the environment than the manufacture of new materials. But it makes some people feel good to do it. In other words, the illusion and image of a thing is greater than the thing itself.
So much green stuff is just gimmicky crap.
I went into a food court last week that had a drinking fountain with an extra lever and spout for filling water bottles. There was a meter on that spout marked plastic bottles saved from landfill.
I filled my bottle from the unmetered regular drinking spout like I always do.
They tried that with the Yugo.
Was it Audi that did the Green-police commercial?
And this little turd from the WSJ article:
"Americans are fundamentally superior to other peoples, and defending the 'homeland' means aggressive, preemptive war!"
Wait: you have to be a raving interventionist to believe in American exceptionalism and decisive action to protect the US homeland?
So what, I don't exist?
Maybe it would help if you explain what else America is currently "exceptional" at?
Exceptional as in "better than others"?
I certainly hope it wouldn't be that "liberty" thing, because that can easily be disproved.
Well DUH!
Why do you hate America?
Try reading the rest of it. At the very beginning, I said Rush has a very shitty attitude towards RP and I hate it. That does not give Thomas DiLorenzo, Ph.D. license to distort the facts.
What I was doing was pointing out to reason that linking to the man lessens their own credibility.
So before you get out that Jump to Conclusions Mat, try to learn fucking English.
Ignore this - wrong place somehow.
Haha, I was really wondering where you were going with that.
Paul should simply state, 'it's actually because i feel America is exceptional that I don't want to get entangled in the messes created by other countries. It is the other candidates who believe we have something to prove to the rest of the world, and therefore whom also make our exceptionalism conditional.
America isn't exceptional because it intervenes. We're trusted to intervene because we have been exceptional. We don't tend to annex countries or steal their shit when we use our force. We also try not to blow up everything or, when we do, we usually rebuild it.
I don't think Americans appreciate how friggin' different that is.
When interventionist began to full fill their calling, they did so out of an inferiority complex that they felt towards Europe and her empires. The writings of Wilson and TR are obsessed with this line of thinking. Hell, even Clay from three generations previous.
'fulfill', squirrels, I corrected before submission. WTF happened!?!
We're where we are for a variety of reasons, but now is the time to decide how active we have to be to maintain the Pax Americana. I think a lot less than we are. So does Paul.
Much more important to world stability is a humming U.S. economy, and a government that is limited in power, scope, and spending authority. Just imagine the example we'd set if we really cut down Leviathan and started back down Boom Street. I think it would have major and wonderful effects on the rest of the world.
Shit, the end result of all that would be massively increased spending power for individuals here, and with our insatiable appetite for stuff, every other economy on the planet would see a rise in their exports.
Unless of course we slap tariffs on them all like Romney wants to.
Freedom and wealth or statism and poverty. You make the call!
G. K. Chesterton said that Rudyard Kipling, one of the neoconservatives of his era and a supporter of the British Empire, was actually a cosmopolitan, not a British patriot, because he thought Britishness was contingent on having power over other countries - he didn't just love his country for itself.
Yes, dictating terms to other countries and if necessary installing an American friendly puppet-regime is completely different from annexing it.
Although i'm not quite sure if annexing is really necessary when all you have to say is: "Obey or be bombed."
So fucking clueless. America leads by example. And when we're running around willy-nilly blowing everyone else, what does the world learn?
Heh, I meant blowing everyone else UP. Yikes.
Noworries. Half my keyboard is broken, and it takes a hard index finger press to get the capital 'I' to work. Looked at buying a new one a few weeks ago but all the models I tested feel fussy.
Try Goodwill.They have stacks of them here for cheap.
Interesting omission though both seem appropriate...
That's an interesting foreign policy you have.
Now, that's what I call a reset of your foreign policy, American running dogs.
not with respect to the EU you didnt. Your principle still applies...gotta love whichever law that is. (joez i think)
This is a repeat from yesterday, but you guys really should not link to LRC, especially not DiLorenzo. The man is academically dishonest. For the record, I do not want anything that follows to be construed as a defense of Rush, but Tom DiLorenzo has got to stop this dishonest hackery.
Even though Rush does not cover himself in glory here, DiLorenzo is doing his usual context-less misquoting. Here is the actual first quote:
That is from this, which is easily accessible and in plain English.
Like I said, Rush is dancing on a line here, but DiLorenzo claims to be an historian, and this is academically sloppy work. When you quote that "Rush repeated the Neocon Lie of the Day that Ron Paul has said that 9/11 was 'an inside job.'", you better goddamned well not drop the context.
DiLorenzo also out-and-out lied about the other two Rush quotes.
here is what DiLorenzo wrote:
And here is the quote from that same transcript I linked above:
Nothing about "Waco", first of all. Second of all, it is a question, not a statement, and third, he did not call Ron Paul's supporters "support(ers) of 'Waco (sic) nut job things'", but in fact suggested that these TEA Party supporters of RP are uninformed, and they must be because they clearly are not hearing what RP has to say about foreign policy.
This is still a pretty shitty establishment attitude on Rush's part, but Jesus Christ it's like DiLorenzo doesn't even try. He has been in trouble for this shit before and he needs to knock it off. It is why I will not read his historical work, even though some of it is good and important - he is not credible.
Oh no waco vs. wacko! Someone please hold Rev Blue Moon, he's getting the vapors from this most egregious of mistakes.
PS: Fuck Rush and fuck his lipservice to small government.
Try reading the rest of it. At the very beginning, I said Rush has a very shitty attitude towards RP and I hate it. That does not give Thomas DiLorenzo, Ph.D. license to distort the facts.
What I was doing was pointing out to reason that linking to the man lessens their own credibility.
So before you get out that Jump to Conclusions Mat, try to learn fucking English.
You are one pedantic motherfucker. First off, you clearly don't hold Rush to his weaselly insinuation, then you make a mountain out of the molehill differences between "Wacko" and "Waco"
Is calling his ideas "wacko nut job" really that much less insulting than "Waco nut job"? I mean, wow, that certainly changes the entire tone of his statement. You are correct Mr. Pedant. I bow before your superior logic.
Because the invocation of Waco means something. It is a deliberate whistle to the Yokeltarians at LRC to start barking like rabid dogs.
IF the Waco error is a typo, that still does not make the rest of the stuff magically honest.
Thanks!
Supply the audio to the broadcast and I can decide for myself if Rush said wacko or Waco.
Frankly, "wacko nut job" is redundant. Rush would have been speaking extemporaneously, so a few redundancies might be normal, but I'd find "Waco nut job" to be a more natural sentence formation.
Dilorenzo vs. the Rev.
Rev says that because Dilorenzo used Waco instead of whacko, one should never cite LRC. Or else one will lose credibility.
Absolutely fucking brilliant.
And the intellectual dishonesty of the LRC crowd continues apace.
Did I fucking say that, you fucking liar? Quote where I said "because Dilorenzo used Waco instead of whacko, one should never cite LRC. Or else one will lose credibility."
That was a minor error in a sea of dropping the context in quotes, which (I don't know if you know this or not) is pretty much one of the most abhorrent things academics can do.
I'd love to to see a thread in which LMike and Tulpa duke it out over what Lincoln would have thought about red light cameras.
If you are going to be the promoter and put it together, I'll be there!
Rev, do I have to go and link to any number of posts where you have GROSSLY DISTORTED what another poster has said?
From what you wrote above, "but you guys should really not link to LRC, especially DiLorenzo", is what I wrote really that far off the mark? Particularly when you make the general assertion that Dilorenzo is academically dishonest and has been so dozens of times and where your allegations are so far off the mark?
How many times have you called me neo-confederate after I assert the fact that Lincolon was a mass murderer?
Do you think that I am a big fan of "southern pride" and "southern culture"? If so, proof?
How about the confederate flag? Do you think, given my posts, that I am a fan of flags and symbols and uniforms and ribbons?
Do you think that I fly or even possess a johnny reb flag? If so, proof?
The point is that you had no basis for calling me a neo-confederate and if one is academically honest, one knows tat just because a person asserts the fact that Lincoln was a mass murderer who was admired by the vagabond from Vienna, does not mean that person is a neo-confederate as the academically honest would know that contempt for Lincoln is not the sin qua non of being a neo-confederate.
Go knock yourself out, Junior. I am more done with you than a used Kleenex.
You just got hoisted upon your own petard, so I will give you some fresh Kleenex.
As I posted earlier, you have a habit not addressing points that may upset your narrative.
LM, I am not getting roped into this game.
You lied about me upthread. Go fuck yourself. I am done with you.
"Go knock yourself out, Junior. I am more done with you than a used Kleenex."
You seem to be under the impression that anyone should care that you are "done with them."
Who are you, again?
Honestly, your objections suck.
Even after reading your explanations, I find DiLorenzo's characterizations of Limbaugh's statements entirely apt.
The only place you've got him is on a transcription error between "Waco" and "wacko" - and the Rockwell blog post dates from yesterday, and was likely put up after hearing the audio, and not after reading the transcript.
Hold it. There is no way, assuming Reverend is quoting accurately that you can call DiLorenzo's quoting of Limbaugh fair or accurate. Specifically
here is what DiLorenzo wrote:
[Rush] said today that Ron's supporters are "uninformed TEA Party conservatives" who support Ron's "Waco nut job things" he says about foreign policy
And here is the quote from that same transcript I linked above:
Where is his support coming from? That's what I would like to know. I have my ideas. But, for example, are we to believe that Ron Paul is attracting the precious independents and precious Democrat crossover voters? Is that where he's getting his support? Or is he getting his support from uninformed down the line Tea Party conservatives who really are not hearing the wacko nut job things he's saying about foreign policy.
If that is true, then DiLorenzo is being a lying sack of shit there. I am not a Limbaugh fan. But I can read and I know a lie or a distortion when I see one. IF DiLorenzo is lying there, and he clearly seems to be, why should I pay any attention to anything else he says?
Nope, see my 3:10 post.
Rush isn't idly musing among different alternatives here.
The structure of his paragraph makes it clear that he discards the first possibility in favor of the second.
And fuck you if you're going to come on here and defend Rush in any way. Haven't we been over this before? Rush is scum and will forever be scum and nothing he does and nothing he says and nothing you do and nothing you say and nothing Rev Moon parses will make a god damn bit of difference.
I don't care who Rush is. I am not going to pretend a lie isn't a lie. Di Lorenzo is not being honest. Look at what he says, uninformed TEA Party conservatives" who support Ron's "Waco nut job things" he says about foreign policy
That is not what Limbaugh said. He said his supporters are not hearing the things Paul says about foreign policy. That is different than saying they do support those things.
Di Lorenzo is lying. The fact that he is lying about someone you or I don't like, doesn't excuse his lying.
Wow, that's really hair-splitting. Especially when applied to a blog post someone put up while the show was still being broadcast.
So you concede that Rush said that Paul's supporters in IA are uninformed Tea Party conservatives, and you concede that Rush said that Paul has "(wacko or Waco) nut job ideas", but you want to quibble about exactly how DiLorenzo transcribed the quote in real time?
Frankly, by supporting Paul those uninformed Tea Party conservatives are, in fact, supporting Paul's (wacko or Waco) nut job ideas. They just may or may not be doing so knowingly.
(See? I can parse these things out to ridiculous lengths too, if you want. In fact, I bet I can parse them infinitely further than either of you guys would want.)
That's a really, really thin basis for accusing DiLorenzo of "lying" about poor, poor Rush.
You call it thin; I call it "getting the context of the quote" right. I would like to point out that calling RP's supporters uninformed TEA Partiers who believe stupid things about foreign policy is a far cry from saying that these TEA Partiers who support RP must be uninformed because of if they were informed, they would catch on that RP says "crazy" things about foreign policy.
It changes the entire context, guy. Like I said, TEAM LIBERTARIAN is no excuse for dishonesty.
Can you do me a favor and put up a non-Sugarfreed link to the full transcript?
Your link doesn't work, so I don't know if you've put up the "full context", either.
Sure:
Not SF'd Link.
So, if somewhere to say "Mark once again repeated the lie that Jim 'gets with men in bathhouses" and the transcript actually says "Jim's mannerisms and the things he says could lead one to believe that Jim gets with men in bathhouses. Of course, he never has, but there are some questionable mannerisms there", you would call that an honest typification?
Because I wouldn't.
To be fair, I only got with those men in the bathhouses when I was coked out of my mind and thought they were just a bunch of ugly, hairy, skank chicks.
NTTAWWT
And if you cut-and-pasted that from Rush's own transcript, the sentence about "wacko nut job things" actually is NOT a question.
Rush asks if independents and Democrats are supporting him, and then discards that as a possibility in favor of the inelegantly-expressed STATEMENT that he's getting support from "uninformed down the line Tea Party conservatives..." etc.
Say I was to say: "Is Tony a troll? Or just a moron." My second sentence is a statement. It's my proposed alternative to the first question, which I have rejected as a possibility.
Limbaugh is saying Paul's support is coming from uniformed Tea Party conservatives who are not hearing the crazy, in Limbaugh's view, things that Paul says about foreign policy.
That is entirely different than [Rush] said today that Ron's supporters are "uninformed TEA Party conservatives" who support Ron's "Waco nut job things" he says about foreign policy
Those are totally different statement. I have no dog in this fight. I am not a Rush fan. But DiLorenzo is not being honest here. You do yourself no favors by pretending otherwise.
And all of this is irrelevant to the fact that Rush has proven himself once again to be a scumbag water carrier for the Republican establishment.
Rush admitted on the air that he bullshitted his listeners for years in order to carry water for the Bush administration. Now we see that was not an isolated error on his part.
And no, no matter how much time passes, no one is ever going to forget it.
So that makes it okay or a good idea to lie about him and misquote him?
Yes, Fluffy, you are doing a TEAM LIBERTARIAN thing here. I doubt that if this were a Blue Historian pulling this kind of academic dishonesty about Ron Paul that would somehow not be incensed at the historian.
Thomas DiLorenzo does this. A lot. And as much as it shames me that my axe to grind leads me to "defend" (even though I am not) Rush for his Establishment Attitude, that is where academic dishonesty gets you.
When you are not honest, you are opening up a massive weak spot for your opponents to exploit. And DiLorenzo has done this dozens of times, and it is not acceptable, especially for a Ph.D. professor.
"dozens of times"?
Prove it.
Wikipedia is your friend. Having read DiLorenzo's book, the context-dropping factual errors pointed out at this link are a good start. The Independent Review's review of the book is also a good place.
Wikipedia is your friend.
Actually, your objections to DiLorenzo's blog post here is about 100 times as well founded as the objections in that article (with the possible exception of the "consummation" quote).
For example:
The two halves of this paragraph have absolutely nothing to do with each other. If DiLorenzo writes that Lincoln suppressed newspapers, restricted civil liberties and employed military tribunals, the only way to rebut those statements is to show that Lincoln did not, in fact, do any of those things. It is most emphatically NOT a rebuttal to say, "Wah! The South was mean, too!"
Fluffy,
I said the "factual" errors. And yeah, how bad IS that consummation quote dust-up anyway?
It is like...really fucking bad dude. That has been my point the entire time.
I only think the "consummation" quote looks bad if you're trying hard to assume that Lincoln was a great guy so therefore he couldn't possibly be a douche.
Basically Lincoln was saying that deporting all blacks would be good for both whites and blacks.
How is that really any different from DiLorenzo's characterization of the quote?
Lincoln did, in fact, say that sending all blacks to Liberia would be a "glorious consummation".
"Yeah, but Lincoln was just trying to be nice when he said that!" really isn't a strict rebuttal. You're just choosing to read the statement charitably and DiLorenzo is not. Since white supremacists (and racist black nationalists) alive today also appear to sincerely think that both races would be happier if they were separated, Lincoln's sincerity in thinking the Liberia scheme was a great idea doesn't actually rebut anything.
Whaaa...?
How do you get this:
From this? (original Lincoln quote):
And consider that DiLorenzo used that Lincoln quote to say this:
That is not "factually accurate". That is nasty context-dropping and as close to out-and-out academic dishonesty as I have seen. That's the kind of shit that gets your tenure revoked.
And frankly, since your criticism in your initial post was that Rush's statement about Paul's 9/11 statements was factually accurate and therefore shouldn't be criticized even if it's deliberately slanted, shouldn't you refrain from criticizing statements by DiLorenzo quoting Lincoln that are also strictly factually accurate, even if you think they're unfair?
REV, you have an axe to grind with DiLorenzo, period.
Just for those who do not know, The Claremont Institute, to which you cited, is an IDOLATOR of Lincoln.
Context, the Claremont INstitue has an axe to grind with DiLorenzo. It is of a longstading nature.
It is understandable, after all, here comes a guy and he trashes their patron saint.
But the author of that piece doesn't supply any examples of factual errors.
The consummation quote is the primary one. I am going to stand by the fact that that is a factual error on DiLorenzo's part, because it is either that or a deliberate misrepresentation of the quote. Which do you prefer?
I don't think it's either.
The full quote makes it apparent that Lincoln was trying to say that if all blacks were deported to Africa everybody in both races would be happier.
That's a racist sentiment. A classic one.
So if the quote is offered as evidence that Lincoln wasn't free of racism, it's neither a factual error nor a deliberate mischaracterization.
It might be uncharitable to hold someone from the 1860's to that high a standard, but that doesn't make it inaccurate.
Actually, your explanation of how Rush hedged his statement about whether Paul thinks 9/11 is an insane job just makes it worse for Rush, in my view.
DiLorenzo was actually doing him a favor.
Had Rush merely said that Paul had once said that 9/11 was an inside job, we could excuse that by saying that Rush was merely making a mistake. When you give me the full quote, it makes it apparent that Rush knows exactly what the truth is but is choosing to try to smear Paul anyway in a manner that can't be deliberately rebutted.
This is why I want the GOP establishment to die in a fire and suffer. Every time I think that a reconciliation might one day be possible, I am reminded anew that it never can be. Not until every last one of these fuckers is gone and personnel turns over 100%.
And I don't care how many consecutive Democrat administrations such an attitude (if widespread) might cause. Fuck it and fuck them.
Well if you're not a Paultard, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw after he invited Ventura to give a full-blown Truther speech at his convention in '08. I know that Paul welcomes dissenting views and has sometimes atrocious political instincts, but I can't begrudge others who assume Truther speech = Truther.
That was horribly phrased. I was referring to this from Rush
But Ron Paul has said things, for example, make you think that he believes 9/11 was an inside job, Ron Paul. He hasn't said it word-for-word, but the only conclusion you can draw when you listen to him talk about his theories on it
And yeah, I was not going to go down the road that Sidd was...but yes. I really am sorry that RP attracts these kinds of people, but he seems to do so deliberately.
That's cute spin. If DiLorenzo had said that, I would have given him (as I give you) oodles of credit. But you know what? He didn't say that. He quoted someone else...falsely.
OK, I found the full transcript.
Here's my updated verdict:
The 9/11 bit is a misquote. I wanted to see if maybe Rush repeated somebody else's criticism of Paul re: 9/11 at a different part of the show, and he didn't. So while Rush stated that he was sure he knew that Paul secretly thinks that 9/11 was an inside job, he did not say that Paul has actually said that.
But with regard to the "uninformed Tea Party voters" bit, I think if you read the rest of the transcript it becomes clear that Rush was asking and answering a series of questions about Paul's support, and discarding various possibilities along the way.
He seems to settle on the idea that Paul is getting Tea Party support because of his promises to cut spending.
He raises the possibility that maybe these Tea Party voters are unaware of Paul's foreign policy views.
But he then appears to discard that possibility later, because Paul keeps openly and repeatedly saying various things (Rush goes off on Paul's Iran views at length).
I'd have to hear his tone of voice to be sure (since when speakers employ the rhetorical device of asking-and-answering their own questions, you really need to hear their tone to know what conclusion they're trying to draw you to) but from the raw transcript I don't think that Rush's own conclusion, in the end, is that these Tea Party voters don't know Paul's views. It's more like he's saying it's inexplicable to him why they aren't abandoning Paul because Paul keeps reiterating these "nut job" views.
Because he's eee-vil, like the fru-its of the dev-il.
Seriously though do some people not see the difference between Rush insinuating that Paul's supporters are "uninformed" about his foreign policy vs DiLorenzo saying that Rush said they "support" his foreign policy views? Sounds like some one may want to get out a dictionary and look up the meaing of the words "uninformed" and "supports".
Saying someone is uninformed implies that were they to become informed they may change their mind, saying someone supports a given position implies that they are informed about that postion and agree with it.
For the record I do not now, nor do I ever listen to Rush. I'm not a big fan of throwing up in my mouth, which is what happens on the rare occassion that I happen to overhear Rush.
No, not really.
If I announce that I'm voting for Adolf Hitler, by my action I am providing support for Adolf Hitler's views.
If I then say I don't know or have never heard Adolf Hitler's views, that just means I am providing support to those views foolishly or without educating myself.
The set "supports" includes both the subsets "knowingly supports" and "unknowingly supports".
I can see why you might jump up and say, "See? See? This summary of what Rush said isn't accurate!" but I really don't think this is really a material part of the criticism of Rush here.
The criticism of Rush is that he said that Paul's supporters are uninformed and that he said that Paul is a nut job.
You seem to think it's extraordinarily important that Rush's precise formulation makes it possible that some of Paul's supporters might later change their minds, but that was never part of what I was pissed at Rush about in the first place.
To me this is like saying that it's not fair to criticize Rush if his transcript has him using the Oxford comma in some random sentence and yours doesn't.
Point taken, now I see your argument against Rush. Let's just say that Rush and DiLorenzo are both self important blow-hards.
http://lewrockwell.com/paul/paul788.html
...for every hipster who dares speak in defense of Paul, a dozen scream and cry and rend their garments.
Screw gold; I'm investing in ironic t-shirts!
The money bomb the day after Paul wins Iowa is going to crush his previous record. Can't Wait!!
Ron Paul 2012, DO IT!!
We link, you decide (the intellectual honesty).
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I emphasize civil liberties and a pro-American foreign policy, which is different from being policeman of the world
I think this is going to be a watershed statement for him. I've long felt like RP should make an attempt to come across as more jingoistic even while maintaining his policy preferences. I think that people have been afraid to embrace him because he doesn't strike them as sufficiently comfortable with a "pro-America" message.
I've been thinking that he could do wonders for his campaign by saying "I'm a fan of the U.S. being the world's superpower and US hegemony. That's exactly why I oppose reckless wars, because the cost in blood and treasure as well as international credibility undermines our security and our global influence. In order to remain the global hegemon, we need to get our military spending under control, reform our domestic spending to balance our budget, and reform our banking and monetary system to ensure that the dollar remains the world's reserve currency."
I'm as patriotic/"pro-America" as they get, and I'm a believer in strict non-interventionism, as are many, many others. The idea that that sort of conviction makes you anti-American, or uncaring, is fucking retarded.
"I emphasize civil liberties and a pro-American foreign policy, which is different from being policeman of the world....the philosophy I'm talking about is the Constitution and freedom...it brings people together, brings independents into the fold even Democrats on some of these issues...[I'm] very electable, it's the American philosophy, it's the rule of law, we ought to balance the budget, and opens door for supporting my willingness to cut $1 trillion the first year."
This man is clearly insane. He is a batty reactionary and a pestilential little locust...
Seriously, WTF. How is this man not already president? Why do we keep electing idiots who promise to build walls around the country or bomb iran or promise everyone a pony even though we've got $150trillion in unfunded liabilities?
I keep forgetting how deep the stupid runs.
It's about emotion.
When CNN shows bombs exploding people say "Fuck yeah! America kicks ass!"
Or building a wall at the border people say "Fuck yeah! Keep them dirty spicks from taking our jobs!"
It's not so much stupid as a lack of thought.
I think there's a fundamental disconnect between people like "us" (if you'll excuse my using that word) and the average voter.
People only value freedom or liberty in the abstract. When it conflicts with bigotry, nationalism (just up-jumped tribalism, that we all sneer at Africans for engaging in), and free shit, they balk.
The long and short of it is, when everyone votes, everyone loses. Most people will gladly accept fascism as long as it promises to bully the "other" and keep the medicaid and welfare checks coming.
I agree. But in politics, perception is reality. So the greatest advantage he can do for his campaign is to come out as unabashedly pro-America, but emphasize how his policy preferences are better at achieving that.
Moreover, I don't think the non-interventionism is incompatible with the idea of being the pre-eminent power on the planet. What I'm arguing is that he needs to make the case that military adventurism will undermine our global hegemony, and that the best way to preserve and enhance our superpower status is through a more judicious foreign policy based on mutual cooperation and trade instead of war. I think most voters want the US to remain the planet's superpower. We need to show them that excessive spending on both military adventurism and domestic welfare is leading to us losing that status.
I think most voters want the US to remain the planet's superpower...
"FUCK YEAH!! BOMB CHINA FER TAKIN ARE JAHBS"
I'm not so sure about that assumption actually. But whatever.
if the worlds most powerful "superpower" needs 11 years and a couple *trillion* dollars to kill just *one guy*... im hoping we decide to go back to being a scrappy underdog with an inferiority complex and extreme unwillingness to get involved in other peoples business.
Seriously, its this "superpower" shit that I think made us so freaking arrogant. We thought we "beat" the communists in the Cold War, when i think it was more of a case of them repeatedly fumbling the ball in their own endzone. We are terribly incompetent at most things - the only thing we got basically right was the constitution, but things generally went downhill from there. Id much prefer a president who didnt go around constantly blowing sunshine up our ass about how awesome we are. But maybe thats just me.
Yes. Often the source of US power is ignored by the left and right...ie we are super fucking rich in every sense of the word and we are rich because historically we are free traders (both internally and externally) and we tended to have a frugal government that did not spend away our future.
Thank you. And I see nothing wrong with a candidate saying, "I want the US to remain the global superpower, and the way to do that is to control spending, be judicious in foreign policy, and make friends globally through international trade and cooperation, not making enemies through war. "
+1
I'm as patriotic/"pro-America" as they get, and I'm a believer in strict non-interventionism, as are many, many others. The idea that that sort of conviction makes you anti-American, or uncaring, is fucking retarded.
How the fuck did THIS happen?
I think it went something like this:
1. The US evolved into the most powerful, most stable nation on the planet
2. After many wars abroad, the US started making friends with other countries
3. The US, swimming in riches, started forming treaties involving military aid
4. Military bases popped up in friendly countries around the globe to make troop deployment more efficient
5. US citizen soldiers stationed on military bases in said countries
6. US now responsible for maintaining military forces around the world
Therefore, if you're not in favor of having and supporting troops all over the world then you hate America and want soldiers to die.
People care about the glory of Rome,err,...I mean America...
So Reason did you notice how Reason was cited for the ridiculous newsletters by Gingrich? You ever going to clean your hands of that travesty?
Does anyone else find it ironic when the Paulbots demand Reason issue some sort of retraction for what they consider to be offensive articles/blog posts?
Yes
PAULTARDS ACCEPT ONLY SLAVISH UNTHINKING DEVOTION
+100000000000000
+2
I don't care when they criticize Paul for something that's truthful. The newletters have been dealt with time and time again... but even then they just don't make any sense. They're not consistent with the philosophy. Its not hard to do some research ya know, http://www.jacobgrier.com/blog/archives/876.html
And I'm not a Paulbot, been reading Reason longer than I have been following Paul. But even if its a long shot I'd hate to have my favorite magazine give credibility to the torpedoing of the only liberty candidate we've ever seen.
+1
everyone who still lends credence to the racist newsletter story should read justin raimondo's article "why the beltway libertarians are trying to smear ron paul." it actually puts the "racist" sections in their original context from the newsletters they came from (i.e. it includes the full sentences, the way they appeared, along with the preceding and following sentences). before i read that i totally thought it was just 90s-style racism, but in context, the "racist" parts were actually from sentences/paragraphs that said the exact-opposite of what's implied. when you see how some of the most oft-quoted lines are actually
Nope.
Because the newsletter issue is a canard.
And since Reason pretends to be libertarian the least we could expect is that they don't employ canards against one of the two only libertarian candidates running for office.
Complain about Ron Paul's stance on immigration or abortion all you want; these are issues about things Ron Paul has open and clear opinions on that he has expressed.
But the newsletters have *always* been smears, and any repeat of it continues to be nothing but a smear.
Everyone knows by now he didn't write them, and he didn't approve of them. It even begs the question if they're racist rather than merely politically incorrect, since they're often quoted out of context.
If Reason wants to be perceived as both libertarian and honest, instead of some pseudo-libertarian gossip mag that just desperately wants to be accepted by the establishment through politically correct sermonizing, it should stop peddling that newsletter-bullshit.
Ron Paul hit the earmark question out of the park.
Was he being sarcastic with that "anybody up here could be Obama" stuff?
Yeah, that's probably the only thing about Ron Paul that irritates me- he doesn't sell himself enough!
He should have said he's the ONLY one up there who could beat Obama, and then rattled off the dozen or so reasons why.
..... "anybody up here could **beat** Obama"
Anyway, says the very high school-sounding Tomasky, Paul's "being antiwar" is "really less brave than it looks. There has always been an isolationist strain in the GOP, so it was always clear that he'd have a base of support there to watch his back against the neocons. And besides, the war turned out to be highly unpopular, which worked out very nicely for him."
It is easy to be anti war. That is why Obama found it so easy to leave Iraq and Afghanistan once he took office.
Obama was never of the opinion that shitholes in central Asia shouldn't be America's concern. If you don't have that assumption, being antiwar is hard.
He sure as hell did when he was a Senator.
Obama was born and bred as an internationalist lefty. He might not have thought we should have troops there, but I guaran fucking tee you he's never entertained the idea of just leaving them alone.
I will give you he was probably lying. But the facts are he said the opposite.
The ARG poll has Paul at 21% in NH. It looks like he could win Iowa and place second in NH. If this turns into a Romney v. Paul campaign, partisan politics will never be the same in this country.
I've been waiting for this post all day. Nice job!
Before, this I've heard/read today is how Paul completely screwed up due to his position on Iran. But I have a gut feeling that most voters (and maybe even most Republican voters) are a hell of a lot more gun shy about starting another ware in the Mid East. And that while the neocons have the pulpit right now, I wonder if it is they who are out of touch with their base?
Seriously. It's like 2006 never happened.
"If only we run a campaign based on MORE war, we'll win! That's what the public secretly wants!"
It's really fascinating how Reps and Dems have become the parties of more war and more taxes. Objectively those two things are at best necessary evils yet the two parties require enthusiastic support to be in the mainstream. It's like they're trying to piss people off.
Maddow's dismissal of the importance of Ron Paul winning Iowa is absurd. Rather than make the comparison to Huckabee, the more apt comparison would be to Obama. Obama himself was a massive longshot to win the nomination until he won Iowa. Iowa provided him with significant publicity and cache that allowed him to surge in appeal over the following months.
Ron Paul winning Iowa wouldn't just be big, it would be huge, and it very well may be the first step towards securing the nomination in a weak field with a highly unfavorable frontrunner for the past four years in Romney.
Since I don't have that part of the brain that gets offended, could someone please explain how those infamous newsletters were offensive?
Why don't you check over at Daily Kos or Democratic Underground? I'm sure they've got just scads of info on that.
We're sick of it, here.
Because they weren't politically correct.
Hence, for some people that means they were "racist", especially when the most politically incorrect parts are taken out of their larger context by those with an agenda.
Well, Maddow (and Chris Wallace) probably rightly believe that the only way Paul can win primaries is in a 4 or 5+ candidate field.
So if Paul wins IA and NH, and that knocks Santorum, Bachmann, Huntsman, and Perry out of the race, and it comes down to Romney, Gingrich and Paul, either Romney or Gingrich probably wins.
I don't see any scenario where Paul wins it all.
The only really fun scenario is one where 3 or 4 candidates stay on their feet for the new delegate rules to set up a brokered convention. Just because of the hate and rage fest that would result.
it comes down to Romney, Gingrich and Paul, either Romney or Gingrich probably wins
Not so sure.
Romney seems to have a hard cap on his support. Two thirds of Republicans seem to want anybody but Romney. I'm not sure what he could do that would turn a supermajority that doesn't want him to a majority that does.
Gingrich is badly damaged goods, and that is becoming clear to more and more people. He peaked fast and early. If it comes down to
(1) Romney can't win.
(2) The "anybody but Romney" race is between Gingrich and Paul, I think Paul has a real shot.
And the machinations of the Establishment to backstab Paul could do mortal damage to the party.
I completely agree that Romney can't defeat Obama. He's just not going to rally anyone other than the hard-core partisan types. Romney *is* Obama, so why bother changing horses? Gingrich also can't win. Everyone left of center at completely hates him which will rally them to vote, and he's unpopular among the family values crowd on the right as well, and also among Tea Party types who are sick of business as usual. You can't get any more 'business as usual' than Newt. He's a career politician with his hand in the influence peddling cookie jar. I don't think he can defeat Obama either.
Paul is the only Republican contender who has ideas that apeal to almost everyone. He's this generation's Reaga.
I think whoever comes in last (other than Huntsman) will drop out the day after Iowa. Huntsman will probably drop out after NH unless he pulls off a miracle (i.e. third place). Another one or two will drop out after South Carolina. One of the other right-wingers could hang in there if the others' voters coalesce around them. But yeah, I think Paul has a shot if he can get 1st in Iowa and 2nd (or 1st!) in New Hampshire.
I hope none of them drop out. I think Paul stands a better chance with more people running against him. It splits up the vote for those who don't understand him. Either way, he has a much better chance than the polls or MSM tells us. Thats a given.
This newsletter thing looks like it's going to be a huge issue if Paul's campaign really starts moving forward. If a guy like Sean Hannity can trip him up with it then the DNC's going to have a field day. I hope someone in the Paul camp gets the point that they need to get ahead of this thing with a coherent message.
Agreed!
Ya don't say!
I think a lot of the attacks on Paul over that newsletter issue are the result of a double standard, though. Paul didn't write what was in those newsletters, after all, and they came out over 15 years ago. He has since repudiated all forms of bigotry multiple times.
Newt Gingrich, on the other hand, said in 2006 with his own mouth that Spanish is "the language of living in a ghetto". Gingrich has also made bigoted comments about Palestinians, Arabs, and Kenyans, and largely been allowed to get away with it. While that doesn't make the bigoted comments in the old Paul newsletters any less repulsive, it does make me wonder why Gingrich hasn't received the same level of scrutiny.
http://musicbomb2012.weebly.com
So the media might be applying some kind of double standard -- and might continue to do so? Naw. Never happen.
While that doesn't make the bigoted comments in the old Paul newsletters any less repulsive
I'll ask again ... Since I don't have that part of the brain that gets offended, could someone please explain how those infamous newsletters were offensive?
Because they promoted judging people by the color of their skin, rather than as individuals. I suppose people have a 1st amendment right to be bigots if they want, but I also have a 1st amendment right to think that racism is digusting, especially considering all the horrors and human rights abuses that it has led to throughout history.
Also, I don't think you really lack "the part of the brain that gets offended". I'm sure there's _something_ I could say that would offend you; something about your mother perhaps? Everyone gets offended by something; it's just that sometimes, different things offend different people.
Because they promoted judging people by the color of their skin
example?
We're sick to death of the RP newsletters. Why don't you go over to DK or DU; I'm sure they'll explain that to you in great, anguished, detail.
Some examples are provided in this article:
http://reason.com/archives/200.....newsletter
I read the original Kirchik piece (which rather pathetically has more context than the linked Reason one) and I don't get the outrage. Most of it struck me as conventional conservative analysis, albeit more crass. Then there's stuff like this
"State-enforced segregation," Rockwell wrote, "was wrong, but so is State-enforced integration. State-enforced segregation was not wrong because separateness is wrong, however. Wishing to associate with members of one's own race, nationality, religion, class, sex, or even political party is a natural and normal human impulse."
The first part is standard libertarianism and the second is an irrefutable fact. I don't see how that's offensive at all. (I assume it must be to Sanchez and Weigel since it was included in the article.)
Weigel actually came to Paul's defense in an article today.
These Republicans thought Paul was just making stuff up about the IAEA report. He wasn't. Bachmann claimed that the report put Iran "within just months" of nuclear power status. It doesn't -- you can read it here.
They implied that, as a generalization, a black teenager from DC would probably be able to run faster than an old white guy who subscribes to a libertarian gold-bug newsletter. Among other shockers. That seems to be the worst one though.
I guess you know for certain who wrote them?
How?
It's a lame excuse. How could you allow a newsletter to go out under your name without reading it once? And without your friends and family ever reading it?
His excuse doesn't pass the smell test.
He's a racist, and a liar.
Considering how many years the newsletters in their various iterations were published, it would be really, really easy for something offensive to slip through.
Especially given evolving notions of how offensive material has to be before it crosses the line.
The "fleet of foot" quote is offensive but not really that racist.
The statements about MLK are just plain old true.
That leaves us with the "most black youth in DC are criminal or near-criminal", and I can see that slipping by, especially if Paul trusted his editors.
Let's go back to 1960 and read every issue of National Review - and if we find anything that sounds racist now, let's declare William F. Buckley a racist. No matter who wrote the article.
That would be fair, right?
Let's do the same thing with the New York Times and the Boston Globe.
You don't think there's one questionable sentence in the last 60 years of the Boston Globe?
The "fleet of foot" quote is offensive but not really that racist.
This is essentially what I'm asking about wrt "offensive." Why are people offended by objective truth?
Have you like been asleep in a cave for forty years and somehow missed the whole thought police and political correctness thing?
People get offended over any manner of things, true or not, and these days playing the victim card trumps all.
Also, not everyone shares your view of objective truth.
Have you like been asleep in a cave for forty years and somehow missed the whole thought police and political correctness thing?
No, that's why I wouldn't ask such a question at DU or DK as you suggest. I get that shrieking lefties are going to shriek, but the near total consensus among libertarians is weird to me.
Also, not everyone shares your view of objective truth.
Sure, there's no stortage morons.
We toast niggers and eat them for lunch.
"We toast niggers and eat them for lunch."
Spoken like a true lefty.
Sidd isn't asking why people at Democratic Underground or Daily Kos are offended by the newsletters. Everybody gets that liberals are perpetually offended.
He is asking why there seem to be so many people HERE and in other libertarian circles that are offended.
Another question might be why WE libertarians seem to care so much about how the P.C. crowd feels about the newsletters, if we are to promote liberty and facts, rather than sensitivity, impulsive emotion and thought police.
You seem to be having a problem with Sidd asking this legitimate question. Why is that? Are you afraid that libertarians won't have an adequate answer?
OK, Colon, do you think that every candidate for national office has time to personally vet every single thing issued on their behalf?
Srsly, really?
Obama claimed he didn't vet the questionnaire from one his Illinois campaigns which said he supported strict gun control. "Oh, someone in my office just filled that out and gave wrong information about my real views."
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, ?No, my writing wasn?t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.?
Actually, Obama?s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama?s campaign said, ?Sen. Obama didn?t fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn?t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn?t reflect his views.?
Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008
http://www.ontheissues.org/dom.....ontrol.htm
Which is objectively more harmful to black people: Saying that young black guys are fleet of foot, or saying you want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens of all races, including vulnerable black people in high-crime areas?
This Newsletter was written by the poster calling himself 'Colin'.
"Hi, I'm Colin, and I have nothing against blacks. I think everyone should own one".
You sir are a racist and a liar for failing to prevent me from publishing this. I don't care how many times you try to distance youself from that comment, the fact that you allowed it to be made in your name at all doesn't pass the smell test, and so you are a racist and a liar.
....can you see how absurd your argument is now?
I fucked a 6-year old in the ass.
"If a guy like Sean Hannity . . . "
Fuck Sean Hannity.
"This newsletter thing looks like it's going to be a huge issue if Paul's campaign really starts moving forward."
It'll be an issue, sure, but I think if Obama's past associations with the likes of Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright weren't enough to sink Obama's campaign, then neither will these 20-year-old newsletters be the deal-breaker for Ron Paul's.
Rachel youre missing the importance of GW and Bob Dole winning in Iowa. You refer to Huckabee's loss of the nomination but victory in Iowa. Yet both GW and Bob Dole won in Iowa and they became Republican nominee. Perhaps you were just counting out Ron Paul's second or worse placing.
'Twas just a matter of time before the smears began in earnest once Paul started breaking into the top three in the polls. The drumbeat of racist newsletters, weak foreign policy and nutty gold bug are just going to get louder if he manages an Iowa win. I can't see how some of the Becks and the Limbaughs of the world don't wake up a bit but the RP camp can easily and honestly defend these attacks.
Sure is amazing and funny how the talking heads all start taking another look at Romney and even Gingrich!? now that it is coming down to Paul, Gingrich, Romney. There will be new calls for new blood from somewhere, anywhere! Bundlers burning up the phone with the usual suspect Governors right now! But not Johnson. hmmmm. Wow marijuana sure scares them establishment GOPs a lot for them to write off Johnson so thoughtlessly. WTF? He would be an Obama killer more than any of them!
On the off chance that Paul wins the nomination I'd love to see him pick Johnson as his VP, both as a middle finger to the GOP establishment as well as to see Johnson run circles around the corpse of Joe Biden in a debate.
I used, up until this week, dream of a Paul/Johnson ticket (GOP, independent, LP, whoever). Now I'm not so sure.
If RP loses, it will be because of the newsletters. But he will get libertarian ideas out there.
Johnson will have a real shot in 2016 or 2020, but it will be a squeaker. Johnson will have a better chance if he has no RP baggage.
Gary Johnson is weak tea, and most people realize it. That's why even most libertarians prefer Ron Paul over Johnson.
He is too afraid to be clear and principled on a lot of politically emotional and far-reaching issues including drugs, use of the military, fair trials for terrorist suspects and the FED.
In short, he still has way too much confidence and trust in the goodness of government in areas where they shouldn't be. He is marginally libertarian at best, who doesn't seem to see government as a necessary evil, and is a utilitarian.
Judging by how he presents himself and the clarity of his views and principles, i don't think he stands a chance in hell ever, not in 2016/2020 or at any other point. His true views are simply too vague and allow for too many promise-breaking and compromise. In short, he's ultimately unreliable.
Let's see
Michael Tomasky writes for the Guardian - check.
Michael Tomasky was part of Journolist - check.
Michael Tomasky is an unabashed socialist - check.
Michael Tomasky is a Jewish socialist - check.
Michael Tomasky hates white people of the wrong kind - non-leftists - check.
Okay, replace Tomasky with David Frum. Any difference? These trotskyists need to be kicked in the nuts and dragged thru a McCarthy-ite hearing. All the commies and the scum of the establishment media.
Oh my God -- He's a Joooooooo!
Burn him!
In case you haven't noticed, Jewish leftists seem to have a special kind of hatred reserved for white non-leftists. Note: Dave Frum on 'unpatriotic conservatives', and now Tomasky on Paul. Also any column of Krugman.
Not noticing patterns does not make you smart. Infact it makes you stupid.
Sean Hannity is a punk.
I shouldn't have been surprised at his biased and aggressive attitude towards Ron Paul as I've frequently noticed his disdain for the good doctor. But last night was ridiculous - it wasn't that he was challenging Paul as that is his job but rather it was his comparatively nasty tone and abruptness used. None of the other interviewees were treated anywhere near the same.
Despite being a modest defender of Fox as an alternative voice to the liberal bias, I've always thought Hannity to be a bombastic punk who still thinks he is the coolest frat boy in school. I've yet to hear an original thought on conservatism come out of his mouth. He just regurgitates what others have said but with an added dose of abrasion. Would love to see him suck up to Dr. Paul if he wins the nomination.
Gotta give a little credit to RP for getting his point across even so, rather than letting himself be interrupted.
Dr. Paul is the only Statesman on stage at these Republican debates. Not only is he rocking the world, he is winning it over!
PS remember today's money bomb!!! Everything helps.
Go Dr. Paul 2012!
Remember the 1/12/12 music bomb too!
http://musicbomb2012.weebly.com/
I'm still waiting for one of those tuff gais to explain how they're going to stop Iran from getting a nuke if the Iranians have the know-how and the will.
Sanctions aren't doing shit, except punishing innocent people. If they think a "surgical airstrike" will work they're smoking dope. The U.S. doesn't have enough troops for a wholesale invasion.
So what will Mittens do?
First, nobody is going to stop Iran or anyone else who wants and can afford them from getting nukes. It is possible to delay the development.
Why wouldn't an airstrike, or more likely a series of airstrikes, work to delay for 5-10 years.
And I'm not cheerleading for this, I just don't see us putting boots on the ground. If it does happen, it will probably be the Israelis doing it.
Why wouldn't an airstrike, or more likely a series of airstrikes, work to delay for 5-10 years
That assumes that the airstrikes will be effective. How can we assume that?
I realise that many people think Iranians are just dumb camel jockeys, but they obviously learned the lesson from what Israel did to Iraq. I think they're specifically prepared for this approach and I wouldn't be surprised if they're getting help on it from China and/or Russia.
OK, Warren, why wouldn't they be effective? Are you saying we wouldn't hit the target, wouldn't destroy the target, or wouldn't get the right target?
Israel is said to have an effective and competent intelligence service. You can be sure as hell they've got assets within Iran's nuke program.
This is why they are saying Ron Paul won't win. Our government is bought! Go to You Tube and watch... "Total Control of United States, The Israel Lobby (FULL MOVIE)"
Why don't you provide a link to The Protocols of Zion as well?
Sieg Heil!
The Israel Lobby trope is boring. Every international concern has a lobby in the US from China to Saudi to Israel to India, etc etc. One of the dumb arguments that the authors of The Israel Lobby made was that if support for Israel was a legitimate democratic concern from US public, why would they need a lobby? Can you believe they made such an argument? Consider that the largest lobbies are those for higher education.
You just Godwinned out there, Colon.
Are you here to spoof the intellectual baggage of leftists?
The problem is that it is more of "Date Movie" quality than "Naked Gun" quality.
Try a little harder, please.
Yeah! What the RP campaign needs is more ties to anti-semiticism! That's sure to work...
No, I don't think Ron Paul likes Sean Hannity. (Who can blame him?) Did you see that forced smile at the end?
well, you'd hope he doesn't like that partisan shankhole
Shouldn't Ron Paul be better at repeating over and over in these debates some of the facts that are in his favor on foreign policy? Such as the fact that the U.S. spends more on "defense" than the next 14 countries combined, we have 900 military bases in 130 countries, and that he has received more in donations from military personnel than the rest of the repubs combined?
He needs to repeat these things over and over.
Fox is the worst, they only ask him questions where they know his answer will be controversial. Case in point, don't you think that last night it might have made sense to ask the man who has delivered 4000 babies what he thinks about abortion. Of course not, it is in line with the Mainstream GOP, and we couldn't have that. He also is the only one with a plan to get around Roe vs. Wade.
After he gave the "They are all good, they are all bad" speech, he should have just gone ahead and said Clarence Thomas. I mean if you had to pick one of the justices, what libertarian would pick someone else?
Sean Hannity is a low life slime to even suggest Dr. Paul is a racist.
Well, yes, but RP is going to get slimed by both Team Donkey and Team Elephant over the newsletters.
The real struggle is between business-as-usual statism and liberty.
He always gets antsy whenever the newsletters are brought up, and with good reason. They are indefensible and inexcusable.
Paul is not only a pathetic racist, he's a cowardly one, too.
...and Paul didn't write them or have anything to do with their writing, and has repeatedly denounced them. What else is the man supposed to do? No-one even knows who wrote these things, so he can't even go after someone for libel.
why do think paul is racist?
Because according to leftist jokes, anyone who is not bowing down to the leftist narrative is a racist.
The newsletters are merely an excuse for Colin to go hogwild.
I'm pretty sure he thinks people are racist just on the basis of them not voting for Obama alone.
They are Desperate
Thank-you Brian. Thank-you.
I'm getting a little annoyed with Paul's debating skills. He needs to stop rambling and deliver points coherently. For example when debunking Bachmann's hysteria on Iran by referencing the nutjob PM Dinnerjacket's genocidal statements, Paul referred to "being at war with 1.2 billion Muslims" which was a complete red herring and unconvincing. Paul should've mentioned that bad regimes/people will always exist, and the US can't cleanse and purify the world, it should stick to defending the homeland as the Founders imagined. Also the J Quincy Adams quote on searching "not for monsters to destroy" is perfect. It should be repeated over and over.
Hannity,show respect to Ron Paul! Ron Paul is a hero,and you a mercenery. Dont be so obvious kissing up to Gingrich and Romney. Fox is obviously a propaganda station brainwashing you to love Obama, Gingrich, Romney. These cronies will turn this country into a facist state. Obamab just passed National Defense authorization Act, so they can indefinitly detain our own Americans here at home,and denying you lawyers. All this in the name of war. Do you seriously want our own president to abuse his power and take your liberty away! And send our kids to die for your love of war? besides we have no money. Government can shut down any time. Wake up people! Ron Paul is the only fit candidate to run this country. Ron Paul is a brave patriot not affraid to stand up for USA. Ron Paul reminds us of Kennedy,and Dr.King. We and our children need Ron Paul.
I though he was going to give Gingrich a Lewinsky right there on national TV.
Hannity: "I LOVE YOU NEWTIE, AND I DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS"
I love Ron Paul. Thanks for the article.
I LOVE IT!!! RON PAUL DOESN'T MATTER. Now that he is winning the entire State of Iowa doesn't matter, so after we win New Hampshire, the granite state is up next for being deemed irrelevant. After he wins the presidency they will tell us they DON'T THINK AMERICA MATTERS, which will be the first beleivable thing the Zionist Media has said in two decades.
If he wins and is sworn in as president, they'll be working hard to explain how the presidency doesn't really matter, and all of that expansion of presidential authority will suddenly be in question. What's great is that the guy questioning it the most will be the president himself.
Please stop with the Zionist Media trope. It's just not helpful. And allows them to play the libertarians as conspiricist nutjobs card.
I don't care at all. It is true, and I won't stop saying it because it is not popular. The "Jews" in Israel are not the biblical Israelites in the bible, and I won't pretend like they are.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
The Almighty Lord God agrees with me, I'll stick with him on this one thanks. Him and I are conspiracy theorists!
"The Almighty Lord God agrees with me,.."
Uh, you need to speak with your doctor and 'adjust' your meds.
Voices in your head aren't healthy.
I'm glad the children could be here today to here this authentic christianist blather.
Oops, didn't notice the Zionist media comment. I don't endorse that position.
Paul is correct on Iran, but I don't know how you convince voters of that in a nation so used to endless war and international interventionism. He's going to have to come up with simple and convincing arguments on that point.
True. Heck, some of the posters here foam with rage at any suggestion that any of America's wars were stupid or wrong.
We have bought in to this idea that we are "exceptional", all great nations fail when they quest for empire. It is truth ANY historian agrees with, "empires" are not sustainable. We are no different, peope don't want to hear that. They just can't come to grips with it. I am with you as far as being concerned on people being convinced.
Dude its simple. He leaves out the essential points and tries to defend the Iranian regime's point of view. That is a mature thing to do but it doesn't go over well in a TV debate.
Here's what he should do:
1- The world has always had mad/evil regimes.
2- This does not mean the US can cleanse/purify the world thru eternal warfare.
3- This is a profoundly unconservative and highly progressive notion.
4- Quote John Quincy Adams on not searching for monsters to destroy.
5- Explain how Gaddafi cooperated, dismantled his nuke program, and then was killed. And ask, did conservatives forget about incentives when it comes to foreign policy? What would be the incentives of a foreign regime after seeing what happened to Gaddafi? Cooperate or not?
Ron Paul is a fucking right-wing comspiracy nut and homophobic racist. Jesse walker hit the nail on the head about those Ron Paul newsletters:
"If Paul didn't write those articles, who did? If he didn't know what had appeared in his newsletter, when did he find out and how did he deal with it? If the candidate is vague on these points, it will only fuel suspicions that he held those beliefs after all (or that he was willing to stay silent despite his disagreements because the newsletters brought in some cash)."
Hey Commissar Trotsky, did you know Alger Hiss the convicted commie was advising Roosevelt @ Yalta? I guess only right wing nuts would wonder how Stalin the benevolent got to keep Eastern Europe and also got Manchuria, oh and military equipment supplied to Red Army troops to defeat Japan which were diverted to defeat the Chinese Nationalists and aid the Maoists.
Haha Yeah all coincidences I'm sure. Noooo one should question these things, only "bircher cranks."
Sorry, pal, your thought policing days are over with the web. I laugh at your attempts.
I fuck 6-year olds in the ass.
He's on to us!
"Ron Paul is a fucking right-wing comspiracy nut and homophobic racist"
Even if that's true his proposed policies and platform are the best of all the candidates, for all people including gays, blacks, and non-conspiracy theorists.
That's really the most ironic thing about it: of all the candidates, Pauls policies are such that whatever his personal weaknesses might be, they are less important for him than any of the other candidates.
We KNOW that Gingrich would let his id run wild across his policies; Paul is essentially the exact opposite. He could be grand dragon of the KKK and his policies are such that he wouldn't be able to do much to further their aims.
Just not for women who live away from the coastal states (excluding Southern ones, obviously) who are loath to become state-mandated broodmares. And some of their more reasonable male partners who don't wish to see their wages garnished by the court to support children they can ill afford. Even with perfect use, birth control fails. And rape and incest happen. There's also the fact that very, very few gynecologists allow women who don't want or can't have children to get tubal ligations until they reach 40 years of age. Personal responsibility is wonderful, but it fails women who have a limited amount of agency over our reproductive rights.
Read between the slick campaign soundbytes, and you'll find that Ron Paul believes that it's well within the rights of the Mississippi government to force a 10-year old who was raped by her father, and a woman with anatomical abnormalities or an etopic embryo, who would die in a pregnancy, to give birth. Now that's some liberty we can believe in!
(Paul will tell us he's "never seen a case where abortion was necessary." Duh. We women don't typically visit our obstetricians in emergency situations requiring invasive surgery, and we don't dick around with anti-choice doctors for abortions or emergency contraception when Planned Parenthood will help us instead of moralizing on behalf of the Nanny Church and sending us off to the fate they decide for us.)
Max|12.16.11 @ 4:57PM|#
Arf
Arf
Arf
Arf
Arf.
Yes, dipshit, we've read your irrelevant barking; the same barking every fucking time.
Please, Ron Paul. Win Iowa! That way their state doesn't matter and perhaps my territory will take their place as the 29th state. On second thought, keep Iowa. You guys suck...
As a Native American I feel ya' but I do not think you further any cause.Maybe you could benefit from Dr. Ron Paul.
Maddow's data contradicts her own point. Other than last cycle (Huckabee), the prior three races had the Iowa winner winning the nomination. It's a stretch to suggest that the most recent race is predictive, not the three races prior.
For those who are pro-peace, there is an important fund raising event for Dr. Ron Paul, today, Friday, Dec.16 in honor of the original Boston Tea Party. Please consider a donation towards peace, prosperity, and a strong national economy. Donate to the moneybomb at RonPaul2012.com
In Liberty,
Entrepreneur and Job Creator
American Spectator is going hard on the newsletters now. House Paul-hater Jeffrey Lord: Smoking Ron Paul Gun: Part II
There's going to be an awful lot of disappointed media puppets, go ahead and continue to ignore "crazy uncle ron" cause the expression on all your faces is going to be priceless, the only veteran on that stage looking to bring the troops home and prevent another unjust war gets heat from clowns like you who have no understanding of what its like being in a warzone, articles like this show us just how scared the status quo really is of Dr.Paul
Ron Paul 2012 shock the world!
Ron Paul 2012
The conservative view of RP:
Only Ron Paul Can Restore America To Its Former Greatness*
* For Some Definitions of "Greatness"
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/324757.php
Paul ahead in South Dakota.
www surprisefirms com
I will not support Ron Paul, because his position on MY right to be FREE from incubating a government-mandated fetus are blatantly clear, as is his laser-like focus on overturning Roe.
The only real libertarian candidate running is Gary Johnson. Paul will never get my vote, and if that should inspire wrath from the Reason set, so be it. I will not stand for a candidate who believes that any state in the union should be free to determine that a fetus's rights trump a live adult woman's, even if that woman would die.
Ron Paul is a friend of liberty, unless you're female.
I'm sure many Paul supporters here are going to tell me a) I don't deserve the right to ownership of my own body, because ? states' rights! b) I misunderstand his position, c) I'm a pinko who hates liberty, or d) all of the above.
As I've gotten older, I've learned that most Americans, and all politicians, would grind my face into the dirt or shoot me behind the barn if it suited their own personal agenda. So to hell with them. I will campaign for MY rights, and as someone who will not survive a pregnancy and cannot take hormonal birth control, I will take my liberty into my own hands. Dr. Paul has no interest in preserving my right to live.
Just because Dr. Paul has not personally seen a woman who could not safely carry a pregnancy does not mean we don't exist. But we're politically inconvenient for his "states' rights above all else" meme, so he makes us disappear.
I'm sure some of you will argue that women should just move to states that support choice. Fine for those of us with money. I'll gladly move to New York. But the women stuck in red states for monetary or family reasons don't have that choice. Ron Paul's failure to uphold my personhood at a federal level repulses me. I'm not interested in toeing a perfectly academic, states' rights-libertarian line. I'm interested in preserving ordinary people's right to live.
You could always abstain instead of killing babies - have you thought of that option? Why are your urges and sexual appetite more important than the life that you would extinguish? Better yet, get sterilized and you can have all the sex you want without having to kill anything! Fetuses are "ordinary people" and they have a right to live too - listen to your own words.
That's is a strong argument; RP's claims of 'personhood' from conception based on a belief in some sky-daddy is nauseating.
But given that his ability to accomplish that particular goal, if elected, is slim to none, IMO, he represents the least vile alternative.
And I have to ask: Who would you prefer as an alternative?
oops; yeah. GJ. Me too.
Ron Paul is someone who stands for peace and personal liberty. Must see!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHbuL486HgM
John Paul as a Candidate: Voting for JP is the same as supporting Obama in the general election. JP CANNOT win. He's naive - I lived in the middle east - JP is living in a pipe dream - he thinks Islam can be dealt with like the USSR during the cold war - JP is as much of an ideolog as Obama. If he had ever been a resident of a country fighting a bloody war on its home soil - he would understand why America has to be the World Police (because if not - China will ursurp that position) - being strong and nasty, powerful and ruthless - is the only way to survive in the BIG BAD WORLD. RP is a political version of Goldie Locks in a fairytale story. That is why we need a BIG BAD WOLF - like Newt Gingrich. He's crafty, foxy, knowledgeable. He knows where all the "dirt" is, and he knows who are allies and who is in who's pocket. Newt knows how to form alliances and coalitions. Do we want a "nice guy" in DC fighting our conservative battles - or do we want someone who has proven that he can make big changes happen in Government? I would rather have the strong smart cookie on my team, than a utopian dreamer. We have to fight fire with fire - Newt is the only guy in the race who knows how to play their game successfully without giving up the whole pie for crumbs. He has the grit and the ego to pull this off. Do we belive that a Dolphin has a prayer of surviving a collective Shark attack? Gingrich is our only hope - and probably our last hope. He could expose Obama in about 10 seconds in a debate, with his hands tied behind his back. Democrats could vote for Newt - because they don't have any scruples about his past - they understand politics is "down and dirty".A soiled blanket is better than no blanket at all when a blizard is approaching.
"That is why we need a BIG BAD WOLF - like Newt Gingrich. He's crafty, foxy, knowledgeable. He knows where all the "dirt" is, and he knows who are allies and who is in who's pocket. Newt knows how to form alliances and coalitions."
IOWs, he's one more statist who will swap his pork with someone else.
"Do we want a "nice guy" in DC fighting our conservative battles"
"*Our* conservative battles"? Is that a turd in your pocket?
Great read.. Thanks
I believe she makes her point and at this stage she may be right. Now if Dr. Paul wins New Hampshire and S. Carolina, than heads would really spin. The weak link in her argument is that Mike Huckabee was a lot more Republican than Ron Paul is. Meaning that he sticks pretty much to party lines, where Ron Paul does not. He appeals to everyone, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives and Republicans. Things we different 4 years ago as well. I know it's Rachel's job to tout Obama because that's what he boss pays her to do, and if he paid her to tout Paul, she would be saying the exact opposite in order to save her job. There is no sense trying to argue with her at this stage because everything is premature. What she fails to realize is that Iowa can be a springboard for the right candidate. Obviously Huckabee was not the right candidate. Ron Paul however, might be
Did anyone else catch her reference to Iowa's "parochial, picayune conservatism"? I'm guessing one wouldn't find any Dale Carnegie on her bookshelf...
Yes, I loved the "parochial, picayune" comment. "Parochial" means something that concerns only a small area, so all local politics fits this definition, not just Iowa conservatism. But then the response to a presidential election, and to Ron Paul's campaign in particular, has everything to do with issues much larger than Iowa: the economy, war, civil liberties, which obviously Huckabee's campaign had nothing to do with. But never mind substance, just look at the numbers. People don't follow meaning, do they? They can be collated into statistical abstractions and predicted more or less accurately. And of course for a centralist, statist-minded liberal, "picayune" automatically follow "parochial," doesn't it? It's this same kind of heaping of contempt upon the masses that is going to, if it hasn't already, cause a legitimation crisis with mainstream liberalism. Finally, I love Maddow's posturing against the pundits whose heads will be exploding if Paul wins. As this segment shows, Maddow's head will certainly be among them!