Local Government

Detroit Needs a Regime Change

The Motor City must be liberated from its moribund government if it is going to survive.

|

This is a time of high political drama in the Motor City as Detroiters debate whether a state takeover of its books is necessary to avert bankruptcy. But in the larger scheme of things, this is a minor issue. A takeover won't cure the root cause of Detroit's fiscal mess: a dysfunctional government that has killed growth and made the city a living hell. Fixing that will require radical solutions, such as the one that brilliant New York University economist Paul Romer is recommending for Third World countries in a similar trap: charter cities.

An Ernst & Young audit earlier this month found that, absent drastic action, Detroit will run out of cash by April. This is no surprise to anyone familiar with the city's perennial budgetary shenanigans.

Detroit's current mayor, Dave Bing, a well-meaning but politically clueless former basketball star, came to office in 2009 (after his predecessor was carted off to jail) promising to eliminate Detroit's $300 million-plus accumulated deficit. But the deficit has grown, and Detroit is drowning in debt because Bing maxed out the city's credit card, pushing Detroit's credit rating into junk territory. The city has used up all its borrowed cash and, come spring, it will be flat broke, since it can't borrow more.

To avoid this, Bing and the city council have proposed competing plans to lay off workers, impose salary cuts, raise taxes, sell city assets, cut back on city services such as trash pickup, and privatize some departments. This will buy Detroit a few more months but arguably deepen the city's malaise. For example, raising taxes while cutting services will accelerate the exodus of businesses and residents from the city, further eroding Detroit's tax base. But all of this is irrelevant: The city's unions are implacably opposed to both plans, making a takeover by a state-appointed emergency financial manager inevitable.

A Michigan law passed last year gives the manager sweeping powers to void union contracts, fire workers, sell assets, and consolidate departments. But the manager's mandate is to make Detroit's government less costly, not truly functional. He or she cannot root out entrenched political corruption; cut taxes (the highest in the state); eliminate red tape; loosen the chokehold of the public unions that could once again saddle the city with unsustainable legacy costs; fight crime or improve schools. These are classic Third World problems that have produced classic Third World results: an unlivable and economically depressed city.

Detroit has lost 1.3 million people since the 1950s. About 50 percent of the remaining 700,000 are functionally illiterate and don't have the skills to hold jobs; Detroit's current unemployment rate is 22.5 percent. Large tracts of Detroit's 140 square miles—an area bigger than Manhattan—are littered with empty homes as Detroiters unable to sell them or pay their mortgages abandon them to avoid hefty property taxes.

Detroit's hidebound political class is too dysfunctional and its special interest groups too fierce to enact workable reforms—which is why Detroit needs to consider Romer's ideas.

Romer's charter cities concept involves creating what he calls "reform zones." The idea is to let a government with a track record of success run parts of a country in conjunction with the local government—but with a high-degree of independence from it—on the theory that the key drivers of progress are rational rules and functional institutions. For example, Hong Kong delivered First World living standards while mainland Chinese remained mired in poverty because Hong Kong was a British protectorate, benefiting from a Western rule of law that implemented low taxes, minimal regulations, and legal protections for property rights and contracts. Likewise, other Third World countries could give long-term leases to foreign governments to establish special reform zones in sparsely populated areas.

Romer calls his concept "charter cities" because a city charter would spell out exactly what rules and regulations the outside government would implement. All businesses and individuals would be able to live in or leave the city at will, but they couldn't easily change the charter and rig the rules toward some special-interest group. However, because the success of the city would depend on attracting people, it would have every incentive to put in place good rules and enforce them efficiently.

Although Romer has not considered applying his idea within America, Detroit might be an excellent candidate. Bing has been talking about downsizing Detroit by withdrawing services from thinly inhabited areas. If his plan moves forward, vast tracts of the city could become completely uninhabited. Rather than turning them into farmland, as some propose, it might be better to turn them over to, say, Houston, whose government has successfully revived its city, especially since Detroit has the assets to thrive—a great freeway system, a sparkling riverfront, a world-class port, and lovely housing stock.

There are a zillion obstacles that would have to be overcome for something this radical (the subject of a future column). The chief one is how exactly Detroit would persuade a city like Houston to become its executive. A percentage of future tax revenue? Simple good will?

But given that the city is about to lose much of its sovereignty to its own state anyway, now is the time to put this innovative idea on the table. Maybe it will go somewhere and maybe it won't. Either way, it will drive home the point that Detroit is an extraordinary mess that requires extraordinary solutions.

Reason Foundation Senior Analyst Shikha Dalmia is a columnist at The Daily, where this column originally appeared.

NEXT: Ain't That a Kick in the Balls

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. It should be surrounded w/ razor wire and turned into a “Liberal Country Safari” theme park as a warning to future generations.

    1. ? What he said!

      1. “When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.” ~Thomas Jefferson

        The domesticated poodles of the city-State think it’s because of a politically-incorrect city-Statist []-ism flavor.

        They’d be wrong.

        City-Statism’s social structure, even the hyper-Capitalist Motor City, fails because of Dunbar’s Number.

        Dunbar, technological advances, and the failure of social structure
        October 14th, 2011
        http://earlyretirementextreme……uctur.html

        1. WI, you are partly right here, for once. There is a tendency for governments to become corrupt and dysfunctional due to human nature, particularly sloth and avarice. Without checks and balances and occasional re-balancing (ie revolution or reform) most institutions degrade as mistakes get made and enshrined in law or precedent. Only a system that has distributed power, is difficult to corrupt and is self-regenerating can survive many generations of human degradation. The US Constitution is about the best one ever devised, but even that has been badly degraded the past 100 years or so.

          1. The US Constitution served the agricultural city-State (civilization) so well because it inoculated the budding nation with a bit of wildness not found in ultra-domesticated Europe.

            That is, the United States Constitution was directly influenced by the Iroquois Great Law of Peace, as Jack Weatherford, a former professor of anthropology at Macalester College in Minnesota, establishes in his book Indian Givers: How the Indians of the Americas Transformed the World.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I….._the_World

            But American agricultural city-Statism (civilization) is as domesticated and fragile as any other now.

            Hence, the ensuing collapse.

            1. I’m fast and Jack Weatherford has been proven wrong and a liar.

              What is there to eat?

              1. …has been proven wrong.

                Isn’t heller the idiot that thinks nuclear weapons are a result of biological evolution, but the State isn’t?

                A fine edumakation ya got there, heller, from the Cracker Jack box.

                1. Maybe, but heller isn’t disgusting and day like I am.

              2. Oooh….Yodels!

                1. “Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of creating a feeling of insecurity in others or of disguising one’s own insecurities.”
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive?aggressive_behavior

                  So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up.

                  1. “So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian?”

                    I’m insecure about how fat I am.

                    Can’t you read?

      2. Since it’s a safari, will we be allowed to hunt them for sport?

        1. That’s a must….to keep the population down.

          1. They’re already hunting each other.

            1. Every time.

      3. It should be surrounded w/ razor wire and turned into a “benefits of free trade” theme park as a warning to future generations.

        1. Bullshit! I protected your sorry asses and made cars more expensive for everybody. You could only fuck that up.

    2. I’m in Texas and I live about a mile away from the former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. His son goes to school with my child. I’m hoping that when he appears in federal court he is sentenced to live in Detroit for the rest of his life.

  2. What is being proposed here borders on colonialism, turning over a city to another one, even if it supposedly is more successful, is not the path to prosperity.

    Failure is the only solution, instead of endless bailouts and innovative looking solutions like charter cities. Let the unions and politicians so completely destroy everything they touch, that people who vote in these corrupt goons realise what the real problem is. Having outsiders run the show is just an easy excuse for the local politicians to blame for all the failure.

    1. The voters who destroyed Detroit will just move to other cities and vote to destroy those, like people fleeing CA do.

      1. The voters who destroyed Detroit will just move to other cities and vote to destroy those, like people fleeing CA do.

        “Because it will work this time, as long as we have the right people in charge!”

        1. THAT is the conceit of liberalism: “it doesn’t matter if the system fails everywhere; we know better than all the others and we can make it work”.

          1. THAT is the conceit of captitalism: “it doesn’t matter if the system fails everywhere; we know better than all the others and we can make it work”.

            Hence, the fibertarian seasteading and “future cities” fantasies.

            1. Do you know the difference between capitalism and corporatism? Do you mean to say socialism creates model societies and economies?

      2. We need to fence Californians and Detroits into their home state/city!

        1. Yeah – that’ll work right up until some asshole decides open borders and immigration are human rights.

          Oh wait….

        2. Don’t forget Chicago.

      3. I thought people from California left for places like Colorado. Colorado still seems okay.

        1. People fleeing California infest Oregon, Washington and Nevada.

          People fleeing Massachusetts infest southern New Hampshire.

          People fleeing New York infest Vermont.

          In all these cases the parasites do nearly fatal damage to their hosts by trying to recreate the hell they have left behind.

        2. People from California are the problem, they fuck up California and then leave.

      4. Theodore Dalrymple wrote a book called Life on the Bottom about the effects of liberal policies on white working class and even middle class people in Britain. a great feeling of entitlement and resentment, along with a disinclination to put real effort into anything legal (criminal activity is okay). As long as people don’t claim to be racist or anti gay, the lack of any morality does not bother the powers that be, despite the fact that such a society sooner or later must descend in chaos, followed by the demand for order and a strong man. The chaotic class itself will start demanding it. Liberals destroy the proudest invention of western modern civ, of humans to govern themselves by willing submission to some kind of generally mild authority, to not take advantage of freedom, to be individual and yet respect convention. The kind of person that lacks those qualities will be one who must be ruled by force entirely. It is obvious that in many non western cultures and perhaps also Russia, either there is anarchy or there is the boot on the neck. People tire of anarchy and demand the boot, then they demand the anarchy again.

        And those that Dalrymple described will also be racist and bigoted. That’s coming, now that the underlying reasons that counseled self restraint are going. Also, they will need to band together to survive and the bands will be formed on the most basic genetic levels.

      5. That’s the central failure of geographically-based democracy. It generally lets anyone join the electorate, without the existing electorate having any say over whether those people should be granted power over them through their votes. Even at the nation-state level, the naturalization process is handled by the machinery of state, and its interests may be at odds with the citizens it nominally represents.

        I imagine we will eventually move to something like the phyles in The Diamond Age. You would have to be accepted by a group to gain any sort of voting rights, though you would not generally be subject to their laws unless you joined.

  3. Even a financial manager with expanded powers seems unlikely to be able sort things out because a third of Detroit’s budget is now taken up by debt service and retiree costs:

    http://detnews.com/article/201…..-s-options

    And an emergency manager can’t cut either of those — that would require actual bankruptcy.

    As for creating a charter-city in Detroit’s emptier spaces — those are the LEAST viable parts of the city, with the poorest residents (that’s why they’re decaying). The most viable parts of the city are the downtown and some of the neighborhoods on the periphery, bordering the ‘burbs.

    If I were given full power to sort out Detroit, what I’d do is:

    1) Bankruptcy to shed unaffordable legacy costs and union contracts, and sell off assets to raise cash (e.g. sell Belle Isle to the state for a state park)
    2) Shrink the actual city to the downtown-midtown area plus the neighborhoods along the riverfront
    3) Unincorporate the rest of the city. Individual neighborhoods might merge with suburbs or incorporate as new suburbs, and what was left would be the county and state’s problem.

    But this is not what will happen, of course. An emergency manager will eventually be appointed (if not now, then when the crisis comes to a head next time), and some costs will be reduced, but the can will be kicked and decline will continue (as it has for 60 years now).

  4. all this is the result of liberal policies.
    The ultimate aim of our ruling class is to make everyplace like this, so there will be no place to escape to. Then, the Revolution! the people will rule and all will be as it should be, that is, perfect.

    1. No. Detroit is the illustration of the results of capitalism too.

      But leaving political correctness aside, the failure after failure of city-Statism (civilization) is a result of Dunbar’s Number.

      A man’s got to know his limitations. The city-slicker certainly doesn’t.

      Dunbar, technological advances, and the failure of social structure
      October 14th, 2011
      http://earlyretirementextreme……uctur.html

      1. I am fat because Dunbar’s Number is pseudo scientific, factually disproven hokum.

        And I eat hokum like it’s going out of style.

        1. …and third-rate (and third-grade) taunter, has apparently never heard of Scholar Google, where one may search scholarly literature across many disciplines and sources, including theses, books, abstracts and articles.

          Dunbar’s Number, it’s in there.

          1. Not dumbear …Dunbar! John Dunbar!

            See I knew you were still on your Dances with Wolves kick! No Jason you don’t get laid at the end.

          2. I am also stupid that I assume heller is the only person the world who thinks I am a fucking moron.

            Sadly for me, that list consists of everyone I’ve ever met.

          3. “Duncan’s number ”
            is tasty tasty hokum.

            And I’m sensitive about how grossly obese I am.

            1. Yer lumps, yer lumps….yer lovely Jason bumps

              1. [Check] [it] [Out]

            2. “Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of creating a feeling of insecurity in others or of disguising one’s own insecurities.”
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive?aggressive_behavior

              So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up.

              1. “So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up”

                I’m insecure about how fat I am.

                Can’t you read?

      2. capitalism does not end up with these results. Detroit is socialism. REal capitalism would end up like Hong Kong or Singapore. That is another direction the US could go in. No more welfare state, but also no more democracy.

        1. Socialism is an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production.

          What means of production were “socially owned” in Detroit?

          1. What means of production were “socially owned” in Detroit?
            ————————
            Socialism is also a political philosophy whose extreme forms outlaw private property and create one large collective. But, nice job of selectively culling the Wiki reference about economics.

            To your question, union contracts with automakers amount to social owning of production since a union can stop production, and since the city’s power structure is demonstrably pro-union.

            Detroit has been reliably blue forever and like all reliably blue places, it is going to hell. That is not accidental.

            1. Funny, every day.

              1. They sure as hell aren’t capitalists.

                1. please make a note of it

                  1. We prefer ‘mixed economy’, thank you. Until we get our socialist utopia.

            2. Doesn’t explain why Mississippi and South Carolina are such shitholes. Actually, no conservatives seem to be able to explain that. They’re just secretly blue, socialist bastions and no one’s noticed? Their childhood obesity, poor health, and rancid education systems are the Democrats’ fault?

              1. Maybe they don’t value good health and a decent education.

              2. Because the South has been like that since the Civil War. The difference is, in the South, they economy has been improving.

          2. Socialism forced the means of production out of Detroit. Automakers wised up to union thuggery and began to depart The Motor City in the 50s. In the 60s Detroit was used as a guinea pig and LBJ poured millions and millions of taxpayers hard earned money into Detroit. Now the once great city is stocked with dopes that voted for Obama because they wanted “Obama Money”.

  5. Being from Dayton, OH (and not living anywhere near there) I’ve gone over dozens of scenarios in my head for how to bring the city back. In the end, it always means that Dayton has to remove itself from both Ohio and and United States. The most oppressive taxes and regulations are state and federal, leaving damaged cities with little but the prospect of bribing companies to come there.

    Let’s pretend that a city the size of Dayton or even Detroit had the political will (politicians AND people) to “secede”….what would happen?

    These cities will only survive if they take big measures to distinguish themselves enough from the big boys that companies and people will flock there for freedom of all varieties.

    1. If that were the case Columbus and Cincinnati would be failing as well. Both are in pretty good shape. Don’t blame the state or feds. Although they are drags on any city, ultimately it’s bad policies within Dayton that have caused its ruin.

      1. Columbus has Ohio State and is the capital city, and Cincinnati has P&G and other big companies that pay the bills. They could both be doing much better in a real way.

        1. True. Franklin county consistently votes Team Blue.

    2. As a fellow Daytoner, can we agree that getting rid of Rhine and electing Gary Leitzell was at least a good first step?

  6. It truly is a catastrophe, and a heartbreaking one. Detroit was a civilizational jewel, and look what it’s become.

    I’m afraid I’ll have to side with the “let’s let it fail” crowd — making changes without allowing the disaster to become obvious won’t likely change the people that cause this shit to happen.

    In the reform stage, go for universal minarchy in all aspects of traditional city governance, and hope that the states and the pendejos federales get their shit together, too.

  7. Can we use Detroit to LARP Arkham City?

    1. AHHH! That would be so awesome!

      Or we go with the fence around prison city idea, a little escape from NY. Throw cameras in for some Hunger Games flavor.

  8. It’s all about demographics. You can pretend it’s about big government and statism all you want, but if Detroit was full of Swedes it would run like Stockholm. No reform will change the place other than changing the population.

    1. Chocolate City FTW!

    2. Open borders is the answer. What we need is more fucking idiots.

      1. We seem to be minting plenty domestically. We need imports too?

        1. What Peter A said. This week’s Sports Illustrated has an article documenting the challenges that athletes face from the gangs in their communities. Sickening. And all a result of single parenting, which is a result of the War on Poverty.

    3. It’s all about demographics.
      —————–
      a malicious truth but true nonetheless. Swedes and other European social democracies have, as a rule, populations that buy into the part of the social contract that requires them to contribute. Greece is becoming an embarrassing exception to that rule.

      The US version of statism carries no requirement on the part of the looter class; it’s why they are the looter class. European social democracy is a way of life; the American version is a vote-buying scheme.

    4. And of course, everybody understands that perfectly well. Which is why you have to wonder why a magazine like this one would pay for an article full of unadulterated bullshit, which pretends that some other solution is available.

      Why we yet another political ideology premised on absolute bullshit, that everyone knows perfectly well is absolute bullshit, is not clear to me. Like economic truths, social truths eventually come home to roost no matter how diligently they are shouted down and swept under the rug.

      Never trust a man with liberty on his lips, and an equal sign in his pocket.

  9. My most basic question is why would Detroit’s leadership be willing to cede the territory to another manager? It strikes me that, from their perspective, a success under alternative management would be the worst possible outcome. It would only highlight their own failure. Let’s remember, Hong Kong only came under British management because the Brits pointed a lot of guns at the Chinese and told them that was going to happen.

    1. Hong Kong was a desolate rock before the brits got there. It only became important because the brits made it that way (as a way to more easily ply their opium china).

      I think it is more instructive to see how well Hong Kong did post British invasion. Being a part of China while continuing the free market principles.

  10. I’m very fat.

    1. …on display at Reason.

      Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?

      1. I’m fatter than a fifth grader.

        And very sensitive about it.

    2. “Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of creating a feeling of insecurity in others or of disguising one’s own insecurities.”
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive?aggressive_behavior

      So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up.

      1. I don’t think people know what passive-aggressive means, because I’m an arrogant shithead. I also can’t make links. Because I’m stupid.

        1. And fat.

  11. My goal is to get so fat that my increased mass begins attracting interstellar bodies.

    Once a planetkiller hits its back to primitive ways baby.

    1. It is only after…that I will speak my new name…I am [FOOD][for][WOLVES]!

  12. “The Motor City must be liberated from its moribund government if it is going to survive.”
    Not going to happen….it’s a minority city.

    1. Thank you realist. That is the truth of it. I remember a while back seeing video of a Detroit city council meeting where the council was majority, or all, minority; I dont remember for sure. In any case citizens were taking turns standing up and asking questions. When a white guy stood up to ask questions, the 99% minority audience shouted him down. No one in the room had any idea what he had to say because they began heckling him the instant he stood up. Then a minority councilwoman pointed her finger at him and said ” This is our city now. You have no right to be here!”

      I say let em have it, it’s their city now.

      All of you who are coming up with ideas on how to ‘fix’ and ‘save’ detroit, consider this;
      Develop a perfect economic, political, or logistical plan then present it to a passel of hogs in a pen. Come back a year later and see if the hog pen has turned into a paradise or if they are still stomping around in mud and shit. What do you think you will see?

      1. Yep, not racist to equate black people with animals in a slop pen.

        1. My grandmother is a typical white person. Regarding Detroit, it be what it be.

      2. Jeepers, FREEPERS, where’d you get those peepers?

        Jeepers, FREEPERS, where’d you get those eyes?

      3. Sounds like Detroit is to America what reservations – or First Nations, as they like to style themselves – are to Canada.
        Enclaves run by people with no fkn clue.

    2. Thank you realist. That is the truth of it. I remember a while back seeing video of a Detroit city council meeting where the council was majority, or all, minority; I dont remember for sure. In any case citizens were taking turns standing up and asking questions. When a white guy stood up to ask questions, the 99% minority audience shouted him down. No one in the room had any idea what he had to say because they began heckling him the instant he stood up. Then a minority councilwoman pointed her finger at him and said ” This is our city now. You have no right to be here!”

      I say let em have it, it’s their city now.

      All of you who are coming up with ideas on how to ‘fix’ and ‘save’ detroit, consider this;
      Develop a perfect economic, political, or logistical plan then present it to a passel of hogs in a pen. Come back a year later and see if the hog pen has turned into a paradise or if they are still stomping around in mud and shit. What do you think you will see?

  13. Some days I want to ride into Detroit as one would the old west and save it- change it and attract the best and brightest with the same promise that the old frontier had for the most adventurous and industrious of Americans.

    Other days I am ready to watch it burn.

    1. Detroit’s inhabitants are far too institutionalized at this point for any real solutions to emerge. It’s essentially one big incorporated welfare state.

      If historians are even the smallest bit honest, they’ll look back at Coleman Young’s tenure and realize that Detroit’s decline, both infrastructural terms and in terms of the character of the city’s inhabitants, is his real legacy.

      1. Liberarians are far too city-Statist at this point for any real solutions to emerge.

        1. Primitards are far too homo habilis at this point for real life spans to emerge.

    2. Seems there are hundreds of thousands of American communities with low taxes, low regulations, and no unions that should be booming. What’s stopping them?

      Seems weird that only liberal bastions can ever be converted into libertarian paradises. Why not start a new one? Won’t the raw freedom attract “the most adventurous and industrious”? Why is only Detroit a candidate?

      1. Which communities are those? The ones that are free from Federal regulations and taxes? And have lawful currency?

      2. Yes, where do these exist?

  14. Any city that has minorities as the majority of the population will eventually sink to the level of a third world country.

    1. At least you don’t hide your racism. That’s about all I can say about that.

      1. Bullshit. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture. If a group of people have a culture of shit, they are going to create a shit-hole to live in. Skin color has nothing to do with it.

        1. AgriCULTural city-Statists, that’s the way they roll.

          1. Speaking of roll, I just had 12 jelly rolls.

            And my fat rolls are so big I can’t see the ground.

      2. How about this Spencer; give us an example of a city with a majority minority population for the last 20 years that hasnt turned into a shit-hole?
        Forget the name calling and give us evidence.

        1. How about this- don’t confuse correlation with causation to support your racist claims.

          Also, what about El Paso? “Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 80.0% (Mexican: 75.0%)”? Houston- 51% MINORITIES. San Antonio? The ENTIRE STATE OF TEXAS. Atlanta- 54% Black, if you’re racism is only targeted at the darkest of skin tones.

          So how about this? Just admit you’re a racist fuck who doesn’t know what he’s arguing about and we can be ok. I can tolerate intolerance as long as people are up front and honest about it.

          1. pwned, Houston, the very city being suggested as a better alternative is a minority majority city.

          2. Hmmm. El Paso has almost exactly the same crime rate as New Orleans….and the high crime areas follow the same pattern. Outlying areas are safest, inner city not so much; a pattern that matches almost exactly the minority/non-minority areas. It isnt racist, it just is what it is.

            I didnt qualify my statement enough apparently. Skin color has nothing to do with it. It is all about culture. What I am intolerat of is cultures with poor work ethic, no respect for persons or self or property, and the ‘what have you done for me today’ mentality. I couldnt care less what you can tolerate. I will be just fine if you and I are not ok. You are one of the simpletons who fall back on the ‘you are a racist’ position when trying to get someone to join in your denial of reality.

            1. That is racism without admitting it. As far as crime in el paso- citation or it doesn’t exist. What i’ve got shows that crime in el paso- per square mile- is lower than the national average, where NO is twice as high as the national average. Where are your stats coming from?

              Also, safe or free- neither are a factor of race or “culture”.

              It’s not the fact that black people are dark skinned you don’t like- it’s everything else about this group of individuals that you’ve stereotyped into a monolith that you think is bad? IDIOT.
              “It’s not that I hate mexicans, I just hate their stupid sombreros and the fact that they’re all criminals who refuse to learn english. but i’m not racist.”

              1. spencer,
                you cannot have it both ways. NO’s crime rate occurs in a heavily black city. El Paso’s occurs in a place where Hispanic immigrants have become citizens with no expectation of entitlements, and part of its crime problem is connected to Juarez.

                The facts are evident: cities with large black populations – not blacks newly arrived from Kenya or Botswana or Jamaica, but the ones native born – have outsized rates of virtually every negative statistic. THAT is the legacy of the Dem Party and until blacks’ slavish devotion to liberal governance changes, that fact will remain in place.

                1. So the racism is just directed toward blacks then, yes? I see.

                  1. I live in a rural area. My neighbor across the bayou is a rancher who is black. He and I are pretty good friends. I respect him alot, not because he is black or white or green, but because he gets his ass out of bed at 4am and feeds his cattle before daylight every day. Right now he and his son, who is also a fine fellow, are riding a pair of tractors around their fields planting rye grass. Later they will ride their fences and mend them, or clean out a barn, or move cattle here to there. By seven or eight tonight they will be sleeping, not riding a jive-ass hoochie mobile up and down the street. Yesterday they spent the entire day cutting firewood, some for themselves and some to sell ( we had some winds that blew down some pecans ). I helped them cut, and next week they are to come help me cut the pecans and oaks that I lost. I know they will show up when the time comes because he has been good to his word many times in the past. I would give the guy the shirt off of my back if he needed it because I know he would eventually lift himself up and I would get it back 2x over.

                    I go to town often to check on my Mother. She lives in a neighborhood that isnt so nice. It is usually quiet until noon or so when the riff-raff starts getting out of bed. They come creeping out of their HUD houses and apts and sit in upholstered furniture on porches or in the yard. They sit there all day…grown men with bed-head and in pajamas, or they slouch up and down the middle of the street with pants around their knees. At night the streets are working alive with them and the boom-boom music. In this part of the country they are mostly black, but there is a white one here and there. I have just as much contempt for the white ones as the black. Fuck them. My neighbor and myself bust our asses and make alot of personal sacrifices for the little bit of success we have, and those lazy worthless fucks are living off of our labor. Fuck them, and fuck you for enabling them and making excuses. You can take your ‘racist’ argument and stick it up your ass, let me know if you need some help.

                    1. I’m not racist, I’ve got black friends.

              2. Having spent a good deal of time in El Paso I am confident in saying that most of El Pasos problems have to do with it sharing a border with Juarez instead of anything to do with El Paso’s residents itself. It’s actually impressive that El Paso’s crime is as low as it is seeing as how it borders a city that is almost wholly in the control of a drug cartel.

            2. Suthenboy, you are correct. We left a largely black neighborhood. Not because of the black homeowners, but because of their children who emulate the gang lifestyle and break into homes and steal whatever they can. And turn the schools to shit. I caught two of them in the process of robbing my next door neighbor’s house. Their car was parked in my driveway, and the police said they probably had my home targeted but saw our large dog through the window and chose my neighbor instead. But don’t believe me, read the article on gangs and athletes in this week’s Sports Illustrated.

          1. Look it has nothing to do with skin color, only the culture that has been fosted. Some of the most succesful immigrants are nowadays black africans. My own city has seen a tremendous influx of small businesses owned by ethiopian and nigerian immigrants.

            1. Exactly, so if it was an all white city going down the crapper these people would have the same arguments, right? NO. They wouldn’t be here saying- “when you got a majority majority city this is what yer gonna git.”

              1. except for the fact that there is no all white city “going down the crapper”. The ones that are share two traits: heavy minority populations and Dem govt. Trace it back to the War on Poverty, which was far more successful in destroying blacks than even the most motivated Klansman could have hoped. If truth is racist, so be it but it does not make it less true.

                1. I beg to differ. Jefferson County AL is majority white and had to file for bankruptcy.

                  However, that’s not the point. The point is that race or “culture” as a mask for race has nothing to do with it. Bad government is bad government- no matter who’s in charge. To bring up race as an issue- other than saying that politicians use it as a dividing factor to buy votes- has no place in the conversation. It is NOT a truth that a minority majority city is destined for failure. AT ALL. Anyone who would suggest that it is so, and that it is because of the culture of the minorities- is a racist, or enthic supremecist, or whatever you want to call them. Racism by any other name is still as retarded.

                  1. Any culture that celebrates a 75% out of wedlock birthrate is doomed.

                    1. What great moralizing. How statist of you. Oh, I’m sorry, not the state that should fix this, but they should be shunned for not living the same way you think they should.

                      What goddamned hypocrisy.

                    2. WTF? Watch the latest edition of Scared Straight. Read this week’s Sports Illustrated article about gangs and athletes. Per the article, half of Detroit’s 700,000 people are functionally illiterate. If you need more proof, take a walk near downtown Detroit. At night.

                    3. And the problem is soclialist policies. Not race. Nor is the nuclear family a goal of a libertarian or capitalist society.

                      How they live there lives, as long as they aren’t hurting/killing you or stealing/breaking your stuff is NONE of your business. Beyond that, it isn’t a function of race. That is my only real point.

                      Now, if you want to say it’s a funciton of class- I’m all with you.

                    4. I agree with your points. Why the black out of wedlock birthrate went from 25% to 75% baffles me. And due to that, they are trying to rob/mug/kill me. I’ve been mugged, and caught two of them robbing my neighbor’s home. My wife handled their disability claims with the state of Ohio. The culture is beyond fucked up. Socialist policies have created hell on earth, true. The liberals singled the blacks out for special treatment, and the results are a horror show. I’d like to see everyone succeed, I don’t give a shit about their skin color. That’s just a physical characteristic. I prefer to get to know a person before I decide to hate them. When a black woman with 15 kids from three babydaddies and says “someone’s going to be held accountable”, it isn’t racist to ask “What the fuck?”

                    5. It’s not the out of wedlock birthrate that’s the problem- it’s the symptom of the same disease. It’s poverty that’s institutionalized to create an owned class. owned by the government. Regardless of race.

                    6. Why we can’t own the asians is a mystery. Fucking achievers.

                    7. Now, if you want to say it’s a funciton of class- I’m all with you.

                      Isn’t it funny how race and class seem to be correlated all over the world?

                    8. They aren’t. I mean, in north korea the white people aren’t rich either.

                    9. You just lost – equating North Koreans with people who have the opportunity to make their own choices. Thanks for playing.

                    10. You just lost – equating North Koreans with people who have the opportunity to make their own choices. Thanks for playing.

                  2. Jefferson County is home to Birmingham, heavily minority, perpetually Dem..two things that are joined at the hip and wallet, with predictable results. The Dem connection applies to whites, too; just look at CA. Left-leaning politics fail. Every time. Wherever. They. Are. Tried.

                    Race is an issue in places like Detroit where Dem minorities have ruled the roost for a long time. ANY city run by Dems is destined for failure. That minorities are overwhelmingly Dem is part of the equation; it is a corollary, not a cause.

                    1. I agree any city run by dems is destined for failure. That is true. however, this is not what was stated above tha I began arguing against.

                    2. Spencer, it is obvious you’re not a fan of Dems or socialism… so, why do you use their “call people racist” tactic?

                    3. because they were/are being racist.

          2. We got another idiot here, folks…

            Hey, Spencer. How about you read the following link?

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

            After you slog through that, why don’t you walk back your claims of racism on this thread?

            I suspect you won’t.

            1. Of course I won’t. Arguing that it’s not race, but other factor of the culture that a certain race has, is retarded.

              That’s the same as saying it’s not women that you have a problem with, but the fact that the don’t like football that you consider when you don’t hire them.

              Obviously, the part of them not liking football is a stereotype, but you have applied it to all women. That is sexist.

              So, to say it’s not that they’re black that’s the problem, but the fact that they emulate thugs and can’t speak properly and want a government handout that causes cities in which they live to decline- is racist. These things are attributed to their entire race, to the point where those that don’t are viewed as the exception. Then, the race is lumped together and the invented “racial culture” is blamed, not the race itself.

              That is racism trying to end around being called racist. So, I ask you to think beyond a semantic dictionary definition (that doesn’t even back up any argument being made- but I don’t think you will.

              Racism is irrational. People with irrational beliefs cannot be swayed from these beliefs with rational argument.

              1. “So, to say it’s not that they’re black that’s the problem, but the fact that they emulate thugs and can’t speak properly and want a government handout that causes cities in which they live to decline- is racist”- but that is true of most whites in south Boston too. So does that make me a racist against my own race?

                Any group that exhibits these characteristics has a BAD CULTURE. They often get that way because of a combination of entitlement victimhood menatilty and growing up in that culture causes one to adopt its principles to survive. I would be thumpin heads for drug territory too if I grew up in Southie.

                The answer is 1. End Welfare except food stamps and minimal shelter relief 2. Legalize Drugs. 3. No Biz Tax and no Min. Wage in Empowerment Zones.

              2. I knew you’d dance around it, Spencer.

                PROVE the racism, or shut the fuck up, mind-reader.

                1. PS… “semantic” doesn’t belong in this discussion, you arrogant fuck.

            2. In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors. ~Murray Rothbard

              Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell and Scientific Racism
              http://holocaustcontroversies……l-and.html

              “[The Native Americans] didn’t have any rights to the land … Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent.” ~Ayn Rand, US Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974

              Mr. FIFY? Hello?

              1. Is still ringing for Mr. FIFY.

                1. I’m fat.

                  Also, since I’m not Ayn Rand, I don’t understand anyone gives a fuck about her opinion.

                  I mean, I know I am personally stupid enough to kowtow to authority figures and swallow their bullshit, but I also know the rest of the population isn’t spineless like I am.

                  And I’m fat.

                  1. Hey Jason, try out 4 Hour Body.

                    1. How long has it been since we had “white courtesy phones” or any other such bullshit, Jason?

                      Your mom has your between-meal meal ready.

                    2. Jim Crow was just over with yesterday! And it’ll be back the moment we elect just ONE more non-Democrat!

  15. Why even leave the state ?

    For dumb ironic value, let Mackinac Island run Detroit. Fudge for all!

    1. But then we’d argue about *whose* fudge rules.

  16. I’m so fat if you split me into 2 people, they’d both be fat.

    But don’t mention it cause I’m thenthitive.

  17. Houston is one of the best cities in America, but I think even Houston has debt. It makes more sense for a government with net savings to take over Detroit, because such a government has proven its ability to balance budgets. I can’t think of any American state or local governments with substantial net savings. The CIA lists 133 national governments with debt ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html ).

    Many of Detroit’s problems result from bad local governance, but mandates from DC also had a negative impact. Federal regulations on cars hurt Detroit’s main industry. Federal immigration policy prevent Detroit from accepting immigrants without USA visas. If we’re going to experiment with governmental jurisdiction, maybe Detroit should become a sovereign nation. It’s current population of 700,000 would still make Detroit the 163rd most populous nation out of 240 nations ( http://www.nationmaster.com/gr…..a-factbook ). A small nation can survive with free trade and a foreign policy of nonintervention. Independence for Detroit would mean another UN member state that votes reliably with the USA, which would help the rest of America.

    Detroit has more land than New York City. With skyscrapers, desalination plants, and waste treatment facilities, it could easily fit 15 million people. An independent Detroit with a generous immigration policy could become the Singapore of Lake Eire.

    Of course, I only support this option if the residents of Detroit want it. Let’s put it up for a referendum.

    1. Correction: Detroit has more land than Manhattan. With skyscrapers, it could easily house 5 million people.

    2. Yeah, regulations are bad. What it really comes down to is that just as bad money chases out good, so do bad people chase out good. Good people in Detroit aren’t allowed to do anything about the bad people. There is a lack of social capital that might be alleviated somewhat by tinkering with the odd regulation. But what is most important is that good people be allowed to rein in the bad. Cutting regs may be a signal to good folks, but in and of themselves its just tinkering at the margins.

    3. Houston is a shithole to live in.

  18. Eliminate all transfer payments to Detroit residents, and free them from federal and state labor & union regulations.

  19. Big-government Land enTITLEments that restrict the free movement of Non-State sovereign individuals is the problem.

    “Historically, people in non-state societies are relatively autonomous and sovereign. They generate their own subsistence with little or no assistance from outside sources. They bow to no external political leaders.”

    NON-STATE AND STATE SOCIETIES
    http://faculty.smu.edu/rkemper…..ieties.pdf

    But libertarians aren’t up to the personal responsibility of living in a Non-State sociopolitical typography. They are domesticated, co-dependent city-Statists to the core.

    Libertarians defend their dependency on city-Statism with debunked Hobbesian mythology that enforces fear of wilderness.

    1. Dear Sir:

      I do not appreciate being beaten as I am already dead. Please cease and desist these activities at once lest I be forced to write you another letter.

      Regards,
      Private E-2 M. Horse

      1. ? personal responsibility
        ? big government deregulation
        ? individual sovereignty
        ? eliminating entitlements
        ? ridding our home planet of Statism

        ???

        Or are all the above issues dead horses as you purport?

        1. Dear Sir:

          This is my second request. I do not appreciate being beaten as I am already dead. Please cease and desist these activities at once lest I be forced to write you another letter. We’ve all read your rants and all those that wish to convert to your primitive religion or subscribe to your newsletter already have. Please move on to a new website as you have outlived your usefulness to anarchoprimitivist / libertarian relations at reason.com.

          Regards,
          Private E-2 M. Horse

          1. Have libertarians given up on:

            ? personal responsibility
            ? big government deregulation
            ? individual sovereignty
            ? eliminating entitlements
            ? ridding our home planet of Statism

            ???

            Or are all the above issues dead horses as you purport?

            1. Please identify your home planet.

              1. Why do you hate her?

                1. “Why do you hate her?”

                  Because I can’t eat her.

            2. “Have libertarians given up on:

              ? personal responsibility”

              I have, that’s why I’m so fat.

    2. Yawn.

    3. “But libertarians aren’t up to the personal responsibility”

      Speaking of personal responsibility, I have none, which is the reason I’m so fat.

  20. Who invited in all the racists? How about throw them in too before we close the door on Detroit?

    1. How about we just send them to detroit? Let’s see how that works.

      1. the racists already live in Detroit, many of them on the City Council. What, you don’t think minorities can be racist? Detroit is a clusterfuck of its own making and who made the clusterfuck?

        1. Minorities absolutely can be racist. You are correct there. However, I was referring to the racists on these threads.

          Also, the fact that there are already racists there doesn’t mean we can’t think about sending more of them there.

          1. How many non blacks belong to the Crips or the Bloods?

            1. How many blacks belong to the Aryan Brotherhood or Latin Kings?

              I don’t get your point.

              1. When 12% of the population is committing 80% of the crime, something is amiss.

                1. …by dollar value but they are convicted hardly ever.

                  MFGlobal – is it $3B now?

              2. Who kills more blacks, the Crips, Bloods, Aryan Brotherhood, KKK, Latin Kings, etc.?

                1. Who steals more total dollar figures?

                  What percentage of that crime is drug crime?

                2. who’s got the most monicles?

                  1. Please get the darkies back in the petri dish. We’re not finished experimenting on them.

          2. “However, I was referring to the racists on these threads”

            There ARE none on these threads, you stupid fuck.

            1. Please see below. By the definition of your choosing, they are racist.

              1. Only if you twist the word to fit your agenda, as you have clearly done.

                Which does nothing to alleviate racism, I might add. But you knew that going in.

      2. How about we send you two fuckwads since it’s apparent you’ve spent your lives in all-white communities.

        1. Not me. We moved to an almost all white community. I’ll leave it to you to figure out why.

    2. In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors. ~Murray Rothbard

      “[The Native Americans] didn’t have any rights to the land … Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent.” ~Ayn Rand

      1. That’s me!

        1. It’s Libertarian

      2. “They (Native Americans) didn’t have any rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using. What was it that they were fighting for, when they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their ‘right’ to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, but just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or a few caves above it. Any white person who brings the element of civilization has the right to take over this continent.” ~ Ayn Rand without the ellipsis, if anybody’s curious.

        1. The full quote merely reveals more of her Hitler-like lies about the Original Affluent Society. (Sahlins, 1972)

          “The life of an Indian is a continual holiday…” ~Thomas Paine

          Too bad Ayn Rand didn’t take her own advice and check her premises.

          1. Sorry, I’m so fat I mis truncated the quote with my sausage fingers

            “The life of an Indian is…abject” ~Thomas Paine

            I guess I’m stupid and fat.

            1. The Hitler card has been played so shut the fuck up and take it.

              1. Is that like the queen in old maid or the ace of spades in spades?

                Do you have to keep the hilter card to shoot the moon?

                1. Beats playing the racist card.

          2. “The life of an Indian is a continual holiday…” ~Thomas Paine

            Not that I ever lowered myself to leaving my horrid urban existence to live like them. Like my intellectual descendant Jason Godesky, I too had my standards.

    3. On the other hand, this thread seems to be re-enacting one of Detroit’s central problems — namely, racial antagonism between the city and the suburbs. In that respect, Detroit never recovered from the ’67 riots.

      1. You mean ‘burn baby burn’ won’t spur economic growth?

      2. On the other hand, the Tigers did win the ’68 World Series. Maybe we don’t need an everyday 2nd baseman. Maybe we need torches and pitchforks……

    4. Who invited in all the racists? How about throw them in too before we close the door on Detroit?

      Perhaps you can explain why the people who did nothing to create this problem, did everything possible to prevent it, and were smart enough to stay the hell away from it should suffer for it?

      I submit that justice would be better served by tossing in the fucking idiots Enlightened? liberals who not only created the problem, but still insist on compounding it and propagating it all over the Western world.

  21. Attention White Indian. We here are Internet Bankz are glad you have selected us to store your excess internets. We would like to inform you that it has been thirteen days since you have made an internetz deposit and you account now stands at less than 50 internetz.

    1. “Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of creating a feeling of insecurity in others or of disguising one’s own insecurities.”
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive?aggressive_behavior

      So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up.

      1. “So what insecurities are you hiding, libertarian? Speak up.”

        I’m insecure about being fat, can’t you read?

  22. Move military bases back from Europe and Asia, put them in distressed cities. Detroit would be a great city to host an armored division, with all that land.

    Spend the money here.

    1. Plus tanks help with riots.

    2. Move military bases back from Europe and Asia, put them in distressed cities.

      That’s been the justification for keeping a lot of CONUS bases operating–that financial armageddon would ensue if they were shut down.

      In some cases, they’re probably right–Clovis, NM, for instance, would become a ghost town if Cannon AFB ever shut down.

  23. Moving down the thread a bit in case Spence missed this one;

    I live in a rural area. My neighbor across the bayou is a rancher who is black. He and I are pretty good friends. I respect him alot, not because he is black or white or green, but because he gets his ass out of bed at 4am and feeds his cattle before daylight every day. Right now he and his son, who is also a fine fellow, are riding a pair of tractors around their fields planting rye grass. Later they will ride their fences and mend them, or clean out a barn, or move cattle here to there. By seven or eight tonight they will be sleeping, not riding a jive-ass hoochie mobile up and down the street. Yesterday they spent the entire day cutting firewood, some for themselves and some to sell ( we had some winds that blew down some pecans ). I helped them cut, and next week they are to come help me cut the pecans and oaks that I lost. I know they will show up when the time comes because he has been good to his word many times in the past. I would give the guy the shirt off of my back if he needed it because I know he would eventually lift himself up and I would get it back 2x over.

    I go to town often to check on my Mother. She lives in a neighborhood that isnt so nice. It is usually quiet until noon or so when the riff-raff starts getting out of bed. They come creeping out of their HUD houses and apts and sit in upholstered furniture on porches or in the yard. They sit there all day…grown men with bed-head and in pajamas, or they slouch up and down the middle of the street with pants around their knees. At night the streets are working alive with them and the boom-boom music. In this part of the country they are mostly black, but there is a white one here and there. I have just as much contempt for the white ones as the black. Fuck them. My neighbor and myself bust our asses and make alot of personal sacrifices for the little bit of success we have, and those lazy worthless fucks are living off of our labor. Fuck them, and fuck you for enabling them and making excuses. You can take your ‘racist’ argument and stick it up your ass, let me know if you need some help.

    1. …of Ayn Rand and Murray Rothbard’s racism.

      1. And my belly is full of jelly rolls.

    2. If you want to argue class, go for it. I’ll agree. There is a class issue.

      However, the original statement was NOT that cities where the lower classes are pandered to you have problems. The statement was MINORITY majority cities have problems.

      Also, claiming you’re not racist because you have a black friend is NOT a good argument. In fact, it’s such a cliche stereotype it’s a joke.

      1. Hmmm.
        A. White guy doesnt hate hard working, responsible black citizens.
        B. White guy hates white lazy-asses.
        C. White guy must be a racist.

        See how well non sequiturs work.

        1. Our white guilt won’t allow any other viewpoint.

        2. White guy cites 1 annecdotal exception to how he’s generally categorized the other members of an entire race- sorry,culture- of 40 million people.

          Yep, that’s proof. It’s in the pudding.

          Also, I wouldn’t have known you were white if you didn’t start by ranting against non white people.

          1. I am afraid of young black males. Because of white racism.

          2. I keep saying it is about the work ethic, personal integrity and strength of character that any given culture is likely to instill in its members and you keep bringing up race. People like you are the problem. You cant call it like it is.
            Large minority populations tend to be insular and preserve the culture from whatever third world shit-hole they came from. Eventually most of them assimilate, but some cultures take longer than others. In those places where they are not completely assimilated there is generally poverty and high crime. That is not true for all cultures, but for most it is.
            I take people one at a time and judge them on their character, whatever skin color they are.
            When I see whole cities, towns, or neighborhoods turned into hell-holes and they have a majority of individuals of the same culture, I have no problem concluding that that culture is shit. I have no problem saying so. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the mindset of whatever culture created it.

            Now you are going to call me a racist again.

            1. I think you just did a good enough job yourself so that I don’t have to.

              1. Spencer it’s a somewhat losing cause. Folks like Suthenboy and JohnD would be much less repulsive if they would admit what they were about, but I suppose in their minds that equates to losing.

                Suthenboy : Cities full of coloreds are shitholes.

                Spencer: That’s racist

                Suthenboy : Whoa Whoa! I never said anything about race! When I said coloreds I meant “culture.” In fact, I’ve even got a black friend.

                1. I know, but the more he says it, the more he has to drink at night to convince himself he’s right. That means he’ll need a new liver sooner- and the only one available will be from a black dude and he’ll refuse and die.

                2. You’re not helping, jacob.

                  It’s people like you, Tony, and now “spencer”, that keep fanning the embers of actual racism.

                  Knock it the fuck off.

                  1. Wow, did I just subtly get accused of being tony? WOW.

                    1. No, shithead… you use the word “racist” the way Tony does.

                      Fucking learn to read.

                    2. you put my name in quotes after naming tony, as if I’m not real. That’s how quotes work in that case.

                    3. Don’t fucking condescend to me, asshat. Tony does shit like that, too.

                      I’m beginning to smell a rat here.

            2. There is also a wide range of work ethic in the inner city. Some of my inner city students had an amazing work ethic. Some students from more respected suburban school districts have a much worse work ethic.

            3. Suthenboy, if an industrial inner city New Yorker went to Central Park, cut down trees, and built a log cabin out of them to live in, the city would arrest him within a day for damaging city tress and for living in a park without a socialist sign attacked to his structure. If he bought land in the New Jersey Highlands, cut down trees on it, and built a log cabin from them to live in, the police would arrest him for violating the Highlands Protection Act. I’ve been fighting to change the laws so inner city residents can move out to New Jersey for more opportunity. I suggest you also work to make it possible for inner city residents to move to your neighborhood. Rumor has it, rural areas are desperate for more workers.

              1. Is anyone else sick and fucking tired of Spencer – like so many other morons – using the word “racist” incorrectly?

                That shit was old and tired decades ago.

                1. anyone sick of racists who deny they are racists and get upset when people point out their hypocrisy ?

                  1. Listen, fuckhead, if you knew how deeply I hate racists – the actual kind, not the made-up-by-Spencer kind – you’d fucking apologize.

                    I suspect you are not man enough, however.

                    1. Then why are you defending them and their practices?

                    2. Because the “them” to whom you are referring, are not “racists”.

                      Just saying people are racists, doesn’t *make* them so.

                      God, are you that fucking retarded?

                    3. But by your definition they ARE racists. And you are defending them. Therefore, you are defending racists.

                    4. No, not by “my” definition, nor by the one you posited in your link – which I still refuse to click, because you are a pretentious, lowlife cocksucker who uses the same “I’ll just call people racists because it fits my agenda to lie like a motherfucker” tactic used by the American left-wing, especially around election seasons.

      2. Who was the moron that wrote the following comment:

        give us an example of a city with a majority minority population for the last 20 years that hasnt turned into a shit-hole?

        Tell me – is the author of that comment railing against minorities or “lazy-asses?”

        1. Not minorities- the culture of minorities. See the difference? Apparently it’s a big one that separates racists from dudes who are just keepin it real.

          1. Still can’t use the word “racist” properly, can you, asshole?

            1. did you read the other definitions of the word?

              1. Yes, and none of them fit the way you’re using it here.

                Just like the way liberals use it.

          2. If it makes you happy, Spencer.
            Indians are fkn useless.
            And the negro should be sent back to Africa.
            I make no apologies for it. Call me racist. Fuck you.
            We don’t need bros or Indians.

    3. I bet he’s fucking your wife.

  24. Did I mention I was fat?

  25. I just wish that there were some sort of Sports Illustrated article about gangs and young athletes that I could read.

    1. Yo cuz, where you from? bang bang bang

      1. Are you fucking retarded?

  26. Are you my father? I never met the fool.

  27. Hey! This thread needs some “Robocop” references. You guys are letting WI throw you off your game…

    1. How about a Gran Torino reference?

      “Get off my lawn!”

      1. Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn’t have fucked with? That’s me.

        1. One of the reviews:

          “Sure enough, the writing is mediocre, the characters either romanticized (as is the case with the Indians) or inane, the dialogue downright absurd at times, and the plot somewhat erratic.”

          Pretty much sums it up.

          1. What city-Statists consider “romanticized,” while at odds with the debunked Hobbesian mythology of “nasty, brutish, and short,” is actually an authentic portrayal of the Original Affluent Society.

            1. I wouldn’t call Kenneth Scheffler a city-statist based on that. It was a three-star review.

              1. Holy crap! White Indian is Fabio!

        2. LOL that the Seneca had to turn to a white man to find their greatest warrior.

          Donald Clayton Porter exemplified SWPL pretentiousness by 20 years.

      2. You – get the hell outta here. These guys don’t want to be your brother and I don’t blame them.

        1. I’ll blow a hole in your face then go inside and sleep like a baby.

    2. …when discussing:

      ? personal responsibility
      ? big government deregulation
      ? individual sovereignty
      ? eliminating entitlements
      ? ridding our home planet of Statism.

      White Indian counts coup on Fibertardism and runs off with their rallying flags. All of them.

      1. …counts ho-hos on 7-11s and runs off with their Mountain Dew bottles. All of them.

  28. That housing stock aint as lovely as it used to be.

    Anyone know of a good book detailing Hong Kong’s economic history?

  29. I love black people. I can’t stand niggas.

  30. “The idea is to let a government with a track record of success run parts of a country” … “on the theory that the key drivers of progress are rational rules and functional institutions.”

    The idea that a government can “run” anything with the goal of “progress” is the very idea that libertarianism opposes. The best institutions governments have ever “run” have been protective institutions like military, police, and courts. They cannot and can never create progress with people acting in their priviate interests as experts.

    Even when governments “invest” in research and development, the people who create new tools and processes in these programs are ACTING privately, ie, under an entrepreneurial paradigm in which the creator works for continued financial and capital support (poublic or private) and the expert/industrial/compensatory recognition that goes with successful developments. But the uncompetitive nature of the public research organization and their incompetent crony leadership causes free riders to infect the research meritocracy and soon total idiots are getting paid the same as the top innovators, who eventually leave to seek more public or private patronage.

    Detroit goverment has fallen into irreparable corruption and incompetence, as happens to any organization which successfuly insulates itself from competition. Detroit was able to consolidate Democratic rule, and after enough years, the Democratic philosophies of reparational welfare parasitism and race victimology caused Detroit to eat itself and its people’s initiative and self-esteem alive. The creators left. Not a pretty sight when Atlas Shrugs. People die mentally under statism, becoming subhuman, low-trusting, predatory, without a higher calling,… before they die physically.

    Maybe we should fence off Detroit and make it a prison city, like in “Escape from New York”. It could then be a reminder of how not to fuck up civilzation.

  31. Any random white supremacist = bona-fide racist.

    Any random Black Panther = bona-fide racist.

    Any random [pick any individual of any skin hue] who genuinely hates people with other skin tones = bona-fide racist.

    Do you see a pattern here, Spencer? Or are you going to continue to bastardize a word which has a specific meaning for a specific behavior, just to make your Team look better?

    1. I have no team. Prejudice based on race (or a culture that is really just a stand in for race) is racism.

      1. You already shitcanned the definition of racism, so why not continue to do so?

        1. Despite your cavalier attitude, here is the pertinent part of the Merriam-Webster definition:

          a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

          The second part, is just a description of the usage of the word:

          racial prejudice or discrimination

          So… what percentage of the time, is the word “racism” used, accurately?

          1. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

            check this one out. Also, the dictionaries don’t work by using multiple definitions to clarify the first. They list multiple accepted uses, not just the same one over again. However, even under the first definition you like so much, someone saying that a minority city will fail is (inherent in the statement) is implying the reason for the failure is the lack of a majority. This would also imply that this person believes there is something inherent in the majority race that makes them superior (at least at running cities). Therefore, by definition 1 (and 2 as I pointed out), this person is racist.

            1. I’m not clicking shit until you apologize, you fucking coward.

              1. BUT YOU ARE WRONG! NOT ME! YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE DEFENDING RACISTS!

                1. I’LL SHOUT SO MY POINT IS CLEAR EVEN IF I’M WRONG BUT CAN’T ADMIT IT!!!ONE!1!

                  1. Sorry, I can’t let this go. You used the “i don’t know what was in his mind” retort?

                    OK, here’s a simpler version.

                    See the definition of racism that you choose.
                    See JohnD’s comment.
                    See how this is the definition of racism that you choose.
                    See he, as one who practices racism, is a racist.
                    See how you defend him (or at least deny he is a racist).
                    Now- see how you have argued on behalf of a racist.

                    1. Listen, fucktard, don’t pull that “God, you’re so fucking stupid, I’ll use ‘Dick and Jane’-style simplistic cadence” bullshit on me.

                      You’re a lot like Tony. You think you’re superior (which is one requirement of being an actual racist) and you think you’re always right (which is just like Tony).

                      You make no valid points here. Troll elsewhere, or do something positive to quell racism.

          2. so again, why are you defending people who make claims where the only logical conclusion one can draw is that race is the reason why they are inferior?

            Why? Why are you fighting me when I’m right? I’ve been right all along. Did you jump over the statements I was calling racist just to fight at the mere use of the word?

            And then, to call me tony, or equate me with Tony. Well, that cuts deep.

            1. No one said that in this thread, shitheel.

              PROPER use of the word is the issue here. You are using the same tactic Tony does when he calls people racists or bigots… it fits his agenda to do so.

              What *your* agenda is, who knows… and who gives a fuck. It certainly doesn’t do anything positive to solve the problems of racism.

              1. “JohnD|12.6.11 @ 9:56AM|#

                Any city that has minorities as the majority of the population will eventually sink to the level of a third world country”

                “3rd world country” is inferior to America.
                JohnD thinks cities without enough white people sink to 3rd world country status.
                The only reason given is that there are not enough white people.
                The minorities are the reason the city sinks to 3rd world status.
                Minorities are inferior to white people at running cities.
                White people are superior.

                RACISM. and PWNAGE.

                1. Can you read JohnD’s mind? Can you look into his soul?

                  I suspect not, so shut the fuck up and fight against REAL racism.

                  1. Really? You’re going to go there? Is there a part of the logical ladder you don’t get or disagree with? Where is the premise that you contend?

                    I know your pride won’t allow you to admit defeat, but we both know it. I am right and have been all along. You stuck your foot in it jumping the gun- assuming I was doing something I wasn’t.

                    I was right. It’s that simple. Racism- with your chosen definition- has been proven on this thread.

                    1. The fuck it has.

                    2. Contend my syllogism. Show me where it does not follow. I contend you cannot.

                    3. Stick you ryllogism up your ass. You’re a disingenuous prick, and deserve nothing but scorn and derision.

                    4. Ah, yes. The argument of failure. You lose. Also, since we’re battling definitions and use, how am I lacking frankness, candor, or sincerity?

                    5. No, you’re being everything I said above… a liar, a schmuck, and an opportunist.

                    6. I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean. Well, they probably do, I just think you’re misapplying them.

                    7. I’ve lost count of how many times Tony has attempted to make the “bigot” label stick – and he does it inappropriately, which bastardizes ACTUAL bigotry.

                      Do you get it, now?

                    8. I understand you can make that argument against Tony.

                      However, that argument holds no weight against me- especially in this instance.

                      I can see how that is frustrating. I understand. However, I cannot let others’ misuse of the word/s stop me from using them correctly.

                    9. Also, I’m not calling YOU racist. I am, however, saying that you have, at best, denied that a racist IS a racist.

    2. These people are white supremacists. They might not have SS tattoos on their necks, but they believe that cities fail that don’t have white people to run them. THEY SAID SO.

      I am right. You are defending racists. If you hate them, you should not defend them.

      1. I’ve MET white supremacists. I’ve had my tires slashed for vehemently disagreeing with them. I’ve thankfully never been physically harmed by them, but they threatened such harm.

        I disagreed with them because they are racists. I disagree with ALL racists, not just the white ones.

        Fuckhead.

        1. Not all white supremacists are nazi’s and kkk members. They will not all slash your tires. They will, however, make statements that belie their racism like “name one city that is majority minority that isn’t a shithole.” The only logic behind that statement is that the reason they are shitholes is because they lack white people. Assuming JohnD and Suthernboy are different people, that’s 2 racists on this thread. Therefore, racists on this thread is accurate, as is my use and definition.

          I, sir, think it is you that owes the demanded apology to me.

          1. I’m talking about people who *truly* deserve the label.

            What you’re doing, is pointless. It makes you FEEL good, though, so maybe it’s not totally pointless, if you can justify it in some sick way.

            1. I notice you only referenced white-on-nonwhite racism.

              Is there no other form? Or do you excuse racism against whites, out of some sense of justice for the misdeeds of a portion of the public?

              1. Then you didn’t read enough. Minorities can be racists too. I see it every day. They deserve to be outed as well. It is equally wrong no matter who is the racist and to whom that racism is addressed.

                It is more annoying, however, when it is repeatedly denied because it’s not the violent expression of racism that it is not racism at all.

                And for you to be the arbiter of who deserves to be called a racist and who doesn’t… well… fuck. Let the thought sink in.

                From math, here’s an example: 1 and 1000 are both positive integers. They are not equal, but to say that 1 is not worth calling a positive integer because there are positive integers so far from being negative like 1000- real positive integers, not something so close (only 2 places away from negative after all) is beyond silly. It is illogical and irrational. It is not true.

                1. If someone actually EARNS the title, so be it. I won’t argue.

                  But to just toss the word “racist” around in a cavalier fashion… that’s Tony-league tactics, if not David Axelrod-league.

                  Or Louis Farrakhan-league.

                  1. But to say racist things EARNS someone the title, yes? NO? What’s the earning rate? 2 racist things?

                    1. True belief in ones’ racial superiority over other races… and hatred for other races, which for some reason is not part of the dictionary definition.

                    2. So, you are doing exactly what you began accusing me of doing. Or, are you saying the dictionary is wrong and your definition is right.

                      If that’s the argument, I would like you to prove that yours is more correct that what you thought mine was.

                    3. Bullshit. I don’t go around accusing people of racism, unless they actually espouse it.

                      Al Sharpton – among others – have made a decent living using the same arguments you use… and they continue to do it, instead of finding ways to END racism, because they want to keep the money flowing in.

                      I doubt you make a dime for your efforts, but they are just as misguided.

                    4. Wait. I was saying that you made up a definition that fit what you think racism is (that is requires hate and “true” belief). I didn’t say you accused someone of being racist.

                      In this instance, and pretty much every time I call someone a racist, I am right and justified. I believe, again, I have proven that- and you have NO argument, other than a moving target of a definition, to refute this FACT.

                    5. Were you born a telepath?

                    6. The argument that “I don’t know what he meant because I wasn’t in his head when he said it” is crap and indefensible. The comment stands for itself.

                      All racists, then, could be lying. They could not TRULY believe. Therefore, since we can’t say for certain. because we’re not in their heads to understand their motivations, that anyone is a racist. So, with that argument, it is possible that racism, by your definition, doesn’t exist at all.

                    7. OR… identifying racists may not be a 100% success rate endeavor.

                    8. Or it is rendered impossible.

                    9. I was born an empath… and damned annoying, to boot.

                      But then, I’m a fictional character.

                    10. and you were “late 80’s hot”.

      2. To compare me to commenters on this website… well, that cuts deep.

      3. To compare me to commenters on this website… well, that cuts deep.

  32. Fashion model. Nude model. Model de choix of Bohemian Paris. Home town beauty queen.

    LUBA SHUMEYKO reigns supreme as the First Lady of Hegre-Art.com. There are a lot of models. There are a lot of photographs. But only Luba makes the unique link to master photographer Petter Hegre through the golden band of a wedding ring. They are the golden couple, the happening people of Generation N – the New Nude Age. To be here is to be a part of it.

    Shy, proud, ultra-feminine from her bow-shaped lips to her little pink toes, “she was born wearing high heels,” as Petter Hegre puts it. And if it’s not a miracle having one Luba, there happens to be two: a mirror image. Luba and Nadya are the supertwins from the Ukraine, the bread basket of old Mother Russia and producers now of the most vital crop on Planet Earth: beautiful girls.

    Oh, yeah, Luba Means Love. What else?

  33. …unless you buy into bullshit posited by self-described prejudice hounds:

    http://www.google.com/search?s…..blacks+can‘t+be+racist&btnG=Search

  34. “Not all white supremacists are nazi’s and kkk members. They will not all slash your tires.”

    No, but *actual* racism requires hatred of the target humans. Just saying “Joe X is racist” is a fallacious, disingenuous allegation without solid proof.

    The shit you’re peddling gets lapped up as gospel on places like DU. You’re not making a sale here.

    1. Wait, where was hate in the pertinent part of the definition you used? Are you moving the goal posts?

      1. Ever meet a bright and cheery racist?

        No… you haven’t.

        Being racist requires hatred as a major component. Mere disagreement with a minority POV, is not proof.

        1. Wait- that’s not in the definition provided. You are making up your own definition.

          Now who’s being disingenuous?

          No fair changing the rules after you’ve lost to get back in the game.

          1. Bullshit. You are the only one who has moved goalposts, in order to get the word to fit the way you want it to fit.

            1. But I didn’t. I used your definition of the word. I used it to show that racism exists in this thread- by a minimum of 2 people. I let you set the rules of the game and I beat you.

            2. Oh, and you DID add to the definition of the word. And additions equal changes. Therefore, you changed the definition of the word.

              I did not. I acquiesced to your terms and usage.

    2. Also, I think I proved that JohnD’s statement was racist- and that has yet to be refuted (other than by some magical theory). I think it also follows that someone who says and racist things is a racist. That is proof in itself.

      Are you off your game today, or are you usually this bad at arguing? I don’t usually disagree with you, so I wouldn’t know.

      1. You just got here, far as I could tell, and you’re only on my radar because it rankles the fuck out of me to see people toss the word “racist” around like a college boy would toss around ecological bullshit just to try to get laid.

        1. I’ve been around for a while. Couple of years at least.

          Also, I wasn’t throwing anything around. I was pointing out racist and racism where they exist. They have every right to be racists. Bully for them. But, I can call them on it when they are. It doesn’t do any good- but I think it should be done.

          1. Funny, I’ve never noticed you here. Maybe you made actual sense up until today.

            1. Maybe I’m the consistent one.

  35. Man, I’m like a trolling troll on fire!

    1. You do act like one.

      1. I’m trolling you, the troll.

        1. I suspect I’ve been here longer than you have – about five years or so, in one guise or another – so “troll” doesn’t fit.

          This is just like arguments I’ve had on other websites… some twat says “Joe X is racist because I say so”, and I point out how it bastardizes REAL racist acts, and a fight ensues.

          Won’t be the last one, either.

          1. But I used your definition provided (before the change). I showed the statement was- by your given standards (again before the change) was racist. You were wrong. JohnD is a racist. He typed a racist sentence on this thread.

            Is that so hard to admit?

            (also, on a side note, I don’t think that tenure does or does not qualify or disqualify one as a troll.)

            1. sorry, so JohnD is NOT a racist because I say so. He’s a racist because YOU say so.

              1. I don’t toss that word around just to score points… I only use it when it’s appropriate.

                Malcolm X was a racist.

                Nathan Bedford Forrest was a racist.

                Is this sinking in?

                1. Yes. But just because they were 1000 doesn’t mean 1 isn’t a positive integer.

                  Is THIS sinking in?

                  just because you don’t like to use the word to cover different shades of the same thing, doesn’t mean it is not applicable.

                  Are all racists equal? NO, of course not. Are all racists racists? yes.

                  1. Oh, sweet fucking tapdancing Jesus…

                    *I* like (actually, insist) that the word be used sparingly, and only when it FITS.

                    Don’t give me that “shades” bullshit, either. If I had a dime every time I heard that haggard argument from a liberal, I’d have a shitload of dimes.

                    1. But it does fit. It fits the dictionary definition. It was a racist thing to say. people who say racist things are racist. How does it NOT fit in this instance?

                    2. so then all racism is equal? I mean, if we don’t want to get different shades argument. So, therefore, A racist is a racist is a racist?

                      That is a really dumb argument.

                2. How do you know? You weren’t in Malcom X’s head. You couldn’t read his thoughts. What if he only used what you thought was racism to try to gain equality? What if it was all a front? So, you can’t say for sure that he was, right? I mean, using your own argument.

                  See how dumb that sounds?

                  1. I read the sentence you highlighted, and saw nothing in it that set off my “that’s actually racist, not just someone pointing out an opinion” alert.

                    Have you never read any of Malcolm X’s works? If not, I suggest you do so. The man had a raging hate for white people, and it was just as disgusting as any Klanner holding forth around a bonfire.

  36. Here’s a good example of when not to call someone or a phrase, “racist”:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc

    1. How about I use this rule of thumb:

      When a person or a phrase acts or communicates thoughts in a way that is consistent with the definition of racism, it is good to call them a racist.

      In all other instances, it is not.

    2. an i agree- but that is not the point. that is not what happened here.

  37. Look, spencer… I’m sorry, but if you knew how many times I’ve been called a racist in my lifetime (e.g., just for merely voicing opposition to affirmative action, for any person), you’d be more adamant of that the word be used sparingly, and accurately.

    It’s like when Tony tries – incorrectly – to identify everyone who voices even mild indifference, if not some variation of opposition to, gay marriage, as a “bigot”. He just assumes “not on my side for any reason = bigot”. And it pisses me the fuck off.

    Do you see why?

    1. I understand completely. I have argued with Tony before.

      1. Well, I’ll say I’m sorry, then. For the life of me, I thought you were some new troll, and it bugs me that I can’t remember your name.

  38. I was born in Flint and sought my fortune in Detroit, so I qualify as an expert in watching a shit hole gestate, and puds like Spence can step up and take responsibility for a good share.
    Squawking racism at every turn, doling out social excuses and patting their boy on the head, they’re as much the cause of decay as the broken window.
    I watched two cities extort tax dollars from the auto (and every other) industry until the turnip had no more blood and the Spencer’s were there at every turn, making social and/or political excuses for suicidal behavior, and demanding ever more “understanding” and money.
    I finally moved a small manufacturing company north to the “yoop”, to a culture nearly devoid of the Spencers of the world, among people who have less even than those in Detroit, but still scratch out a living without the crime, divorce, substance abuse and lawlessness of the city.
    I’m convinced it’s all cultural dynamics at work, and Spencer can pat himself on the back for his complicity in it.

  39. I’m still pissed. Spencer is incrementally more the racist than anyone here, and he’ll never know it, much less admit it.
    Fuckstick!

    1. Hey harvard,

      Fuck you cunt face.

      Now, sine we’ve baselessly insulted each other, can you explain how I’m racist for pointing out actual and proven cases of racism here?

  40. Your an elitist dipshit, probably reside in Ann Arbor. You’re content in the belief that you rise above the racism you see in everyone else, all the while excusing rude behavior and worse among the darkies you rely on to puff up your ego. You’re far more dangerous to a community than any mugger or crack dealer because you bloviate from afar rather than allow YOUR children to attend laughable public schools equipped with razor wire and off duty cops.
    Do us all a favor and volunteer at the the Occupy events and stay the fuck out of discussions about what your liberal “cry racism” ethos has caused. I’m a guy that happens to personally know a lot of people, both black and white, that have suffered deeply because of fucks like you and we tire of your bullshit. You seek racism? Seek it (largely) in the black community today.

    1. Wow. Did you not read anything? I’m not crying racism. I’m not liberal (well, classical liberal I am). There was racism. I didn’t seek it. I saw it. It existed. Logically proven.

      Also, I live in Texas. Suck it bitch.

  41. Hey Spence, Chris Rock fits your definition too!

    I HATE niggers.
    I am tired of niggers. I wish they would let me join the Ku Klux Klan. I’d do a drive-by from LA to Brooklyn.
    You can’t have anything valuable in your house. Niggers will break in and take it all. You can’t do anything without some ignorant-ass niggers fucking it up.

    Everything white people don’t like about black people, black people don’t like about black people. It’s like our own personal civil war. On one side, there’s black people. On the other, you’ve got niggers. The niggers have got to go. I love black people but I hate niggers. I am tired of niggers. Tired, tired, tired.
    Niggers always want credit for some shit they’re supposed to do. They’ll brag about stuff a normal man just does. They’ll say something like, “Yeah, well I take care of my kids.” You’re supposed to, you dumb motherfucker. “I ain’t never been to jail.” Whaddya want? A cookie? You’re not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!

    Now the politicians are trying to get rid of welfare. Every time you see a welfare story on the news, you always see black people. Hey! Black people don’t give a fuck about welfare. But niggers are shaking in their boots: “They gonna take our shit.”

    I see some black people looking at me: “Man, why you got to say that? It ain’t us, it’s the media. The media has distorted our image to make us look bad.” Please, cut the shit, okay? When I go to the money machine at night, I ain’t looking over my back for the media. I’m looking for niggers!

    1. It fits the definition as racial predjudice, yes. it would not fit the defnition as given by FIFY.

      But, as I said before, it’s definitely possible for any race to be racist.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.