Occupy Wall Street

3 Reasons We Shouldn’t Bail Out Student Loan Borrowers

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"3 Reasons We Shouldn't Bail Out Student Loan Borrowers" is written and narrated by Nick Gillespie and produced by Meredith Bragg.

About 3.33 minutes long. Go to Reason.tv for downloadable versions and subscribe to Reason's YouTube channel to receive automatic notifications when new material goes live.

As the cumulative total of student loan borrowing approaches $1 trillion dollars, calls to forgive some or all of that debt are mounting. Federally guaranteed student loans make up more than half that total and Barack Obama is pushing to cap the amount any borrower must pay back in a given year and forgive outstanding balances after 20 years.

Among Occupy Wall Street protesters, calls to bail out student loan holders are arguably the single-most voiced demand and sites such as Forgive Student Loan debt beat the drum for immediate and widespread relief.

But forgiving student loan debt is a very bad idea for at least three reasons.

1. These loans are voluntary. All borrowers are excrutiatingly well-informed of how much they're borrowing and how much they're going to have to pay back.

About half of all college students take out loans and when they do, every lender clearly spells out exactly how much you're on the hook for and what your monthly payments are going to be after you leave school.

Critics say that 18-year-olds don't understand what they're getting into and shouldn't be held accountable for their decisions. But that's an argument against letting kids attend college, not against letting them borrow against future earnings to get a degree that will increase lifetime earnings by somewhere between about $280,000 and $1 million.

2. The amounts being borrowed are hardly overwhelming. While the cumulative total of all college-related debt is huge – approaching a trillion dollars, it's bigger than credit-card debt – it's not so big for individuals. The typical college graduate who borrowed money to attend graduates owing about $25,000. They've got a minimum of 10 years to pay back that amount and the repayment schedule can be extended and modified for a wide variety of reasons.

The monthly payment for $25,000 in student loans at going rates comes to around $290 a month. That's not chump change. But given that the that college grads have unemployment rates that are less than half the national average and that the average salary offer for graduating seniors is almost $50,000, the loan amount isn't so bad either.

3. Bailouts are never a good idea. Like Tea Party activists, Occupy Wall Street protesters are right to rail against bailouts for big banks and financial institutions that are politically connected. But student loan forgiveness advocates are wrong to perpetuate yet another cycle of bailouts. It's never right to socialize losses while privatizing gains. That's what the banks did – they risked their money on stupid investments and then got made whole at the expense of taxpayers. Student loan forgiveness is simply another version of the same swindle. And it offloads the costs of other people's decisions onto taxpayers, who guarantee federally backed student loans.

College is an important decision – and it's made even more expensive by heavily subsidized loans. But letting people off the hook for loans they made with full knowledge of the costs will not only dissuade anyone from lending to students with no collateral other than their future work output. It will make it that much harder to argue against the next call for bailouts from the next group of special interests.

Nick Gillespie is the editor in chief of Reason.com and Reason.tv and the co-author with Matt Welch of The Declaration of Independents: How Libertarian Politics Can Fix What's Wrong with America. Follow him on Twitter by going here.

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493 responses to “3 Reasons We Shouldn’t Bail Out Student Loan Borrowers

  1. hate the idea of bailing out student loan borrowers, but of course they use the power of the agricultural power of the city-STATE to bail out their bogus claims on land. Without their precious city-STATISM, they would never be able to defend their pathetic system of land enTITLEments which are nothing more than arbitrary restrictions on the free movements of peoples.
    Officer, am I free to gambol?

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        1. Needs more fap.

          1. and cowbell

            1. Life, Liberty, and Property Pursuit of Happiness.

              Pursuit of Happiness is a term from Jeremy Bentham’s philosophy of Utilitarianism.

              Problem?

              1. Pick one rational argument against Jefferson:

                a. Commie commie commie commie
                b. Socialist socialist socialist socialist

    1. HI MISS RECTAL

      1. YOU KEEP YOUR PAWS OFF MISS RECTAL KUZ SHES WITH ME NOW

        1. HOW DARE YOU SAYS THAT! I DONE AND GOT MISS RECTAL A FLOWER FRUM THE SWAMP!

      2. hello again Reasonoids! Are you ready for some snarky passive aggressive commentary on the conservative movement? If not, I have some magical tax cuts and demsindisarray to sell you!

        1. I’m the real Weigel! You twerps need to stop insulting my good name. Ronald Paul for prez!

    2. Are you hard of hearing?

      NO

    3. I personally think the issue is that the government helped the worst of the loans be created by guaranteeing them over other loans. In a more sane world, the government should rescind on these assurances and let the deadbeat kids with 6 figure loans default to punish the idiot banks who lent them the damn money in the first place.

      1. Oh Paul, I thought the same thing, until I left Reasonland to join the Jesuits. Convert or die, scum

      2. I generally agree. In particular, I think prohibiting the forgiveness of college loans in bankruptcy court is a very bad thing. Perhaps that forgiveness does not have to be wholesale, but the fact that colleges are selling worthless degrees at high prices to young people who have been lied to all their lives about the worth of those degrees … that has to mean something.

        1. But see point #1, there IS worth to a degree. Just not a degree in puppetry. Just not spending 4 (or 7) years drinking. I don’t buy this lied to bullshit. An 18 year old has lots of shit to figure out but if they are smart enough to go to college they are smart enough to do some research about what that degree will actually be worth.

          -grumpy old 25 year old

          1. Yeah, what Apatheist said.

          2. Agreed. The degree in basket weaving isn’t going to pay-off for you. Major in math or hard science based degrees and they benefit in the end. College is seen as a rite of passage to adulthood for many, so assume the responsibility that comes with it.

    4. had a gluten overdose today.

    5. 1) No bailouts
      2) Get government out of the student loan business entirely.
      3) Let student loans be discharged in bankruptcy. Not because welching on your debts is good, but because a lot fewer student loans would be made – especially to people with no likelihood of paying the loans back. The higher education bubble would be popped, and teachers would have to teach instead of spending half the year on sabbatical at Stratford-upon-Avon.

      The problem isn’t how to pay the outrageous costs of higher education, it’s the outrageous costs of higher education.

      Apologies to the Welsh.

      1. Couldn’t agree more. As a former bankruptcy professional that’s dealt with many middle and low-income debtors, I kind of saw this coming years ago; particularly with the 2005 revamp of the law. It continues to amaze me how a large secured asset like a house and even certain Federal taxes can be discharged in bankruptcy, but student loans and trust fund taxes (sales) of failed businesses generally aren’t. It’s as lawmakers really believe that you can get blood from fiscal turnips and stones.

        1. So, should all new student loans being made tomorrow be dischargeable in bankruptcy, or should it be applied retroactively? Because the latter seems kind of unfair to the banks, who made the loans assuming a certain set of conditions.

          1. All of the loans.

            Every single one.

            Because it was the banks that lobbied to make them non-dischargeable in the first place, because they didn’t want to assume the risk of millions of Phaggot Striver Poors taking out $40K or more apiece in debt.

            The whole point of making a loan is that BOTH sides should assume risk–the lender that it can’t be paid back, and the borrower that their ability to borrow more will be fucked for making taking out a loan they can’t pay back.

          2. The banks that were bailed out? Hard to feel much sympathy for the unfairness.

            They also made the loans assuming (for instance) the debtor wouldn’t die in a car crash at age 28, but things like that happen and they take a loss.

          3. It won’t be the banks that made the loans that take the loss, it will be the owners of CDO’s backed by student loans; pension funds, insurance companies, small banks, etc.

            And if you make federally guaranteed student loans dischargeable, it will be taxpayers that take the loss.

      2. This is the correct solution. If the student loan business was run by private banks, you would not be able to get a $100,000 to spend four years studying sociology.

        You would only be able to get loans up to your expected ability to pay them back for your future profession.

        And you would have to sit down and have a serious conversation with someone who isn’t a parent or teacher about your career plans.

        I suspect having to talk to a bank loan officer about one’s future career plans would be just the thing to dose today’s youth with a bit of reality.

        1. Thats’ a good point. Even with all the parents adn guidance counselors telling them to follow their bliss or whatever, a serious conversation with a banker could inject a bit of financial reality.

          1. Right, the guidance counsellors and parents have both been taught to build up the kids ego.

            I know a guy who got a Bachelor’s degree in “Japanese”, during which he basically studied not only the language but everything about the culture and history.

            Upon graduating he realized that he didn’t actually want to go live in Japan, so he was pretty much fucked.

            Starved for a couple of years, then went back and got a two year degree in computer programming, and now has a sucessful career.

            He now says that he wished someone had told him not to study something that he “loved”, but rather, “study something you enjoy, that you can earn a living at”.

    6. is a cunt.

      1. …still thinks Communism is wonderful.

  2. Reason #4:
    Get you hand out of my pocket!

    1. hola, Reasonistas! I know we’ve had our differences in the past, but I thought I’d try for a clean Slate (ahaha). How was your Halloween? Mine was great! I went as a libertarian.

    2. I was once arrested after putting a hand in a stranger’s pocket. Now I work at Slate

      1. “Oh, I get it. They’re for your personal use only, right?”

        1. NO SUCH THING AS “PERSONAL USE,” YOU BASTARDS!!!
          /sudden aneurysm

    3. Everyone is a tax paying citizen and without it yo dumb*** wouldn’t have a school to go to, a job, or the jeans for your pocket. Greed is whats causing America to fail. Funny how other foreign country students receive free college education, yet our gov’t wants to overcharge students for trying to better themselves. If multi-millionaire scam artists can receive bailouts, so should the college students.

      1. Well that argument might carry some weight if you could find anyone here who favored the bailouts.

      2. “Truth Hurts”–well then, you’re about to feel as if you’re in a medieval torture chamber.

        Everyone is a tax paying citizen and without it yo dumb*** wouldn’t have a school to go to, a job, or the jeans for your pocket.

        Which is completely irrelevant.

        Greed is whats causing America to fail.

        Including your greed for other people’s money.

        Funny how other foreign country students receive free college education, yet our gov’t wants to overcharge students for trying to better themselves.

        1) That education isn’t “free,” and the lower costs are largely the result of a lack of collaboration between the banks, the government, and the universities to keep raising tuition without consequences. Every time tuition gets jacked up, what do the Phaggot Striver Poors do? They whine about it for a couple days, then bend over at let the Educational/Banking/University complex bend them over and fuck them in the ass again.
        2) Most European countries also don’t operate under the illusion that everyone can “better themselves” with white collar managerial jobs, and maintain schools for blue-collar professions for people who aren’t academically inclined.

        If multi-millionaire scam artists can receive bailouts, so should the college students.

        Sorry, but college students who don’t take out a truckload of debt they can’t afford to get a worthless credential for the managerial class shouldn’t be paying for your stupidity.

      3. “Greed is whats causing America to fail.”

        Define “greed”.

        1. When you want to keep your money instead of giving it to me.

          Duh!

      4. and let’s keep pumping your retirement funds to the MM$ scam artists also…..since they “can receive bailouts” like it’s ok.

        1. since it would be greedy of you to try to withhold anything….

  3. Letter from active duty soldier to OWS with commnents at Salon.

    Laugh, cry, whatever.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/11/1….._soldiers/

    1. I would submit to you that one of the reasons OWS is camping in parks and demonstrating is that the electoral system in this country is broken.

      We’re doing this for you!

      1. I would submit to you that one of the reasons OWS is camping in parks and demonstrating is that the electoral system in this country is broken.

        What?

        No, seriously, WHAT?

        I would submit to you that one of the reasons OWS is camping in parks and demonstrating is that the process to generate bills in congress is broken. There – that makes as much sense, yeah?

        1. Oh it gets better, way fucking better:

          I joined the military because I was taught, and have inwardly always believed, that freedom is earned, not given. There is no fundamental “right” to freedom. It has always had to be earned, over and over again, and that a few earn it for many is rarely remarked upon.

          WHAT!!!!???one

          Do you even know what country you’re fighting for? Or the beliefs of its founding fathers? Or the basis of the Bill of Rights?

          And that you think you “EARN” my freedom for me makes me want to shove an AR-15 up your ass…sideways.

          1. That is fucked up. That kid doesn’t get it. The whole point of the military being a noble profession is that they make sacrifices so the rest of the country can be fun, dumb and happy merely because they were lucky enough to be born here.

            If everyone has to do it, then it is just a requirement and you doing it is nothing special.

            1. It’s a short step from where this kid is to being one of those that believe only those who have served in the military should be allowed to vote.

              1. It is a subtle but important change from the attitude about the military and service I was raised with. I thought you were supposed to serve and by happy you did it and everyone else doesn’t have to.

              2. Fine by me. As bad as that would be, it would be better than what we got now.

                One proviso – that no one was prevented from serving.

            2. I believe that capitol l is simply making the point that “freedom isn’t free.”

              To that, the founding fathers most assuredly would agree.

          2. RICO! What is the difference between a citizen and a civilian?

            1. Fuck yeah Starship Troopers — those mother-fuckers are ace

          3. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

          4. Yes and idea that the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting for our freedoms is laughable.

            I have all kinds of respect for our troops (though not necessarily for individuals) but that is not what they are fighting for and it is an entirely volunteer military. Noone forces them to go over there.

            1. Yes and idea that the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting for our freedoms is laughable.

              I’d have to agree with that. The disingenuous rhetoric from pols about ‘fighting for freedom’ there is an insult.

            2. “Yes and idea that the troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting for our freedoms is laughable.”

              Iraq and Afghanistan are fucked up scenarios and there are legitimate arguments that they should have never been entered into and certainly should be discontinued as soon as humanly possible. Don’t blame the soldier for the decisions of elected officials.

              You sign up with the intention of fighting just wars. If you are still in when the war starts…you go. Prison is the only alternative. The military is controlled by civilian authorities and are the instruments of their policy. It MUST be that way, for if it wasn’t the military would soon become the despot.

              Don’t blame the soldier for the government’s actions. He can’t choose his fights.

              1. Don’t blame the soldier for the government’s actions. He can’t choose his fights.

                Then they deserve to lose all aspects of honor. If they are merely the mindless automatons of their higher ups, then it is the higher ups that deserve all respect when the military performs admirably. The troops, by your argument, are reduced to mere equipment.

                Moral decisions don’t disappear because one is told to do something.

                1. Never said they did. As a soldier, you have a moral obligation to determine which orders are legal and which are not.

                  Just said the military has no say in who they fight. AND IT MUST BE THAT WAY. As soon as you give people with the guns the ability to choose which battles to fight you will lose control of your republic. Unless, of course, you approve of a military dictatorship.

                  Put the blame squarely where it belongs. On the policy makers.

                  1. Never said they did. As a soldier, you have a moral obligation to determine which orders are legal and which are not.

                    Just said the military has no say in who they fight. AND IT MUST BE THAT WAY. As soon as you give people with the guns the ability to choose which battles to fight you will lose control of your republic. Unless, of course, you approve of a military dictatorship.

                    You do realize that you just made a complete contradiction here, right? If you believe that they CAN’T decide whom they fight, then they CAN’T make the decision to ignore immoral orders.

                    Also, your claim about military dictatorships evolving due to individual decisions regarding battles is baffling. Are you claiming that the commanding officers are the only thing that prevent the masses of troops from becoming a violent mob?

                    1. Let me take them one at a time.

                      First, there is a difference between illegal and imoral.

                      There are illegal orders. “Go kill every man, woman and child in that village.” As a soldier, you are expected not to comply. It is clearly illegal.

                      On the other hand, “go bomb Iraq” is a legal order. You do not have the option to not comply. You can’t say, “Well I don’t agree with the reason you are sending me into battle, so I’m just not going.” (Well, you can, but you will go on an extended vacation to Leavenworth.) You see, when the Chief Executive (hopefully with a declaration from the Congress, but that’s another story) sends you to battle, as long as no laws of warfare are being broken, it’s a legal order. Can you imagine if every soldier could dispute every legal order upon “moral” grounds? First you’d have to decide who’s morals… and the bottom line would be you could never have an effective fighting force. So that’s what I mean about the civilian authority (and the electorate) being responsible for the moral decision of whether or not a war is just.

                      You misunderstand my point about military dictatorships.

                      Control of a military is a tricky business. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. As the military has the guns it is extremely unwise to allow them to make decisions about when and against who they should be employed. The Generals are allowed to make recommendations to the civilian decision makers about military strategy, but the policy remains with the civilian authority.

                      If you allowed the Generals to make policy, they would eventually begin to make decisions in their own self interests (either the military’s interest or the personal interest of a given General). And since they have the guns, guess who’s policy will trump who’s? The inevitable outcome is that the civilians, and therefore the electorate, would lose control.

                      SO, to avoid a military dictatorship, it is essential the civilians make the policy, and THEY be held accountable for that policy.

                      Hope that clarifies my meaning. Tried to sum it up, but there have been books written on this subject.

            3. Fuck you.

          5. There is no fundamental “right” to freedom.

            Fucking natural rights! How do they work? And yet, I find this vastly more disturbing:

            The Army is the center of my soul, it gives me everything I could ever have wanted or needed, and I will remain with her until the end of my life ? however long or short that may be in coming.

            1. He likes being a soldier. What is disturbing about that?

              1. There’s a difference between “likes the ‘job’ (perhaps dependent on MOS)” and “here’s my love letter to the largest jobs program/single expenditure in America.”

            2. Fucking natural rights! How do they work?

              They are endowed by the Creator. How are they secured, one wonders? Magic?

              1. Can’t really say it better than this:

                We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness property. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

              2. They are endowed by the Creator. How are they secured, one wonders? Magic?

                They are most certainly “secured” by constant struggle, but under conceptions of “objective morality”, they are inherent and therefore precede the struggle. The struggle is against others who wish to deprive one of his rights. Governments are a means by which men have tried to “secure” them. Yet governments are also instituted by men to deprive the rights of their subjugates.

                The soldier, from his words, doesn’t believe in objective rights, but government privileges; earned by reward for service. It is men such as this, that tend to form the latter style of government.

              3. How are they secured, one wonders?

                If you’re going to copypasta, copypasta the entire sentence:

                That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ? That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

                Pay attention to that term “just powers.” A government has no rights, merely powers, powers that contingent upon the sufferance of the citizenry. The government is not the citizens’ master, it is their servant.

          6. I think he’s confusing the right to freedom (which is a moral truth) with actual freedom.

            Lots of people lack things they have a right to, and lots of people have things they have no right to. Your right to freedom is an assertion about the moral nature of society; it doesn’t have to be earned, just believed in. The actual freedom, on the other hand, must be pried from the hands of those who would rule through blood and toil; earned, in other words.

            1. Or she, whatever. But still, it wasn’t that objectionable in spirit.

            2. “What ‘right’ to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What ‘right’ to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of ‘right’? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man’s right is ‘unalienable’? And is it ‘right’? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third ‘right’??the ‘pursuit of happiness’? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can ‘pursue happiness’ as long as my brain lives?but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can ensure that I will catch it.”

    2. I’m ashamed about the 25% voting thing as well. It is completely embarrassing that 1 out of every 4 Americans had nothing better to do on election day than stand in a line and support some douchebag who has no qualms with using force to get what he wants.

      1. Local elections for the city I live in ended up with 23% voter turnout, even with a mayoral race on the line. I think people might be starting to realize it doesn’t matter who they vote for anymore, nothing is changing.

        1. You & Matt keep working on convincing people not to vote. If you can get the turnout down to 0% in Minneapolis, I can singlehandedly rid this city of its communist government.

          1. Minnesota is indeed a particularly rotten state.

    3. Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, that was about the dumbest thing that I have ever wasted my time reading. The fact that that motherfucker is armed and in the employ of the federal government scares the shit out of me.

      This is how those goddamn militias get started. Some guy in Idaho reads some shit like this in his morning paper’s oped page and the next thing you know he’s stocking up on ammo in the woods because he now knows that we are fucking DOOMED!

      And who made the fucking rule that once you join the ARMY you can get your 9th grade remedial English essay on patriotism published by a major media outlet. “Why Amerca is Teh Awsum” By PFC dipshit…HELLFIRE!!!

      AAARGH

      Fuckin Sergeant Sandbanana Motherfuckers…

      FUCK FUCK FUCK

      1. It always kills me when people act like there are no liberals in the military or that everyone there is some kind of a backwoods redneck evangelical.

        Sure there is a lot of that. But there is all kinds. There are some seriously stupid liberals in the military.

        1. What exactly was liberal in that letter (except for the fact that it was sent to Salon)?

      2. I thank you for reading it so I don’t have to.

        1. Don’t laugh, according to the logic of the author I just earned your right to be free from that stoopid shit.

          Now go put a magnet on your car for me, or something.

      3. ?

        I’m confused. Are you disagreeing with him? You think people shouldn’t vote or know the Constitution?

        1. I could give a fuck if people vote; they’ll usually just vote themselves goodies (I vote you give me all your cash Franky. Happy?). And I don’t need fucking lectures from some kid that doesn’t even grok natural rights about learning the goddamn Constitution.

          1. I didn’t take it that way.

            He was saying liberty needs to be fought for. Preferably through the vote and sometimes with force (note: the latter I only condone as a defensive measure).

            1. He was saying ………

              I think that Alexandra is a “she”.

              1. My bad. Didn’t pick up on that. (It’s a gender neutral force anyway ;-))

        2. Or do you just have a hard-on for ANYTHING military?

            1. Concur.

            2. Those tits qualify as biochemical weapons with all that saline solution in them.

              They ought to fall under some Geneva Convention ban.

              1. I just so happen to moonlight for the IATA (Intl. Atomic Titty Agengy), and am prepared to conduct a full inspection.

            3. C’mon, fake tits sitting in a booth at Starbucks. That ain’t military.

              1. You know what’s funny? I believe somebody married her.

        3. I’m confused. Are you disagreeing with him? You think people shouldn’t vote or know the Constitution?

          The author has no coherent philosophical belief. First, protesting is a fundamental right. Then “rights” are fictions. Freedom must be “earned”, but then it shouldn’t be used. And last but not least, the “country” grants one their “rights”.

  4. I’m for bailing out the student loan borrowers as long as the amount is treated as ordinary income and they get taxed at the Federal and State level on it.

    1. That’s still a significant discount.

  5. Caption:

    WHY WONT ANYONE HIGHRE ME??

    1. “I Came To OWS And All I Got Was This Stupid Sign”

      1. “I bathe. No, really, I promise!”

    2. Make fun of the guy all you want, but at least he’s eating real pizza instead of that deep dish dreck I hear ProL rave about.

  6. I just found out Anne Hathaway was at the OWS rally last night holding up a sign saying “Blackboards not bullets”. Damn, I really liked her, too.

    1. “blackboards not bullets”

      What, we can’t have both? THIS IS AMERICA, DAMN IT!

      1. If we can send someone to the moon….

        1. …then surely we can get Anne Hathaway a brain?

      2. “Blackboards not bullets”

        RACIST!

        1. +1 to meaty balls. I feel dirty after typing that.

    2. Because we clearly don’t spend enough money on government schools.

      1. I wonder how much she could get if she auctioned some of her designer dresses she gets for free to wear at red carpet events would fetch at an auction. Could use that money to endow a fund to help poor kids go to a good private school where they will learn something.

        1. Sorry for that travesty of a first sentence.

          1. you’re first in line for the Anne Hathaway Private Scholarship Endowment.

          2. I wonder how much she could get if she auctioned some of her designer dresses she gets for free to wear at red carpet events would fetch at an auction.

            I don’t even care what it is, I want some of whatever you are on. E-mail me.

        2. Forget that, go big. How much could she get if she auctioned herself off for say one night a month? I bet that could create a hell of a scholarship fund.

          1. I’ll conduct the auction. It is my profession after all.

            1. Auctioneer or pimp?

              1. That depends. Is it a weekday or the weekend?

    3. what an idiot. How about the Government doesn’t spend money on either? That would be best

    4. She’s got a fish-face. I’ve never understood her appeal.

      1. You should come out of the closet. There’s not a thing wrong with being gay.

        1. If you ever see the video of A. H. raping on Conan, you’ll lose that boner for her real fast.

          1. er, raped my ears by rapping, iow.

            1. Dude, I really, really liked the first version better.

              1. If she had done that, I would still be her biggest fan.

              2. You can’t fire me Reason! I QUIT!
                Gambol all the way

            2. Get out of Andy’s ass with that strap on, Anne. No one wants to hear him squeel like a pig. No one!

        2. You should come out of the closet. There’s not a thing wrong with being gay.

          Your personal fantasies are none of our business.

      2. She is very cute. And before the gay men of Hollywood made her starve herself nearly to death, she had a fantastic body. Now she is just a skelator.

        1. Starvation sculpts a prettier cheekbone. What do you want, sagging soccer mom jowls?

          1. No. I want boobs and hips. And plenty of women have bodies and don’t have sagging soccer mom jowls. Actresses in the 1950s were plenty thin and beautiful. We know from their costumes they were all size fours or sixes (the idea of women like Monroe being a size 10 is just a myth started by fat women) But now they are all a size zero. Hollywood and its obsession with thin has ruined more women.

            1. She was actually smaller than that in her last months. Never looked more beautiful with a more sculpted look. She saw the light and realized there was no future in being a 1950’s bloated cow. The best looking women in acting from the late 40’s and 50’s were Italian women because they really were emaciated from post war poverty.

              1. I wouldn’t call Sofia Loren emaciated. And the only reason she was so small was because she was popping massive amounts of pils. Super skinny women don’t age well. The wrinkles get way noticable. Look at the ultimate twig actress Audrey Hepburn. Under 40 she was lovely. After 40 she looked like she had been smoking five packs a day.

                1. I’m not overly concerned about their shelf life. Acting is not so difficult a profession you can’t find someone younger and prettier.

                  Loren wasn’t who I had in mind anyway. The skinny neo-noire actresses did not fit the paradigm of 1950’s Hollywood with its anal compulsive obsession with wholesomeness.

                  1. There is a good argument to be made that Loren was the best looking women ever put into movies. I have this argument with Sarcasmic all of the time. He loves these women with no figures. I don’t get it.

                    I like what Ava Gardner said after being asked about her ex husband Frank Sinatra marrying Mia Farrow. She said “I always knew Frank liked little boys”. One of the best PWNs ever.

                    1. Not sure why you would be concerned about an actresses’ figure. That is what porn is for.

                      The face is from whence the lines come, and where cameras are directed if they are not wasting valuable screen time. Watch the editing in Breathless. Incredible, btw.

                      Keeping thin takes discipline. It is as necessary for a good actress (who is not typecast for fat roles) as it is for a good ballerina.

                    2. That is just not true. The best actresses, while not fat by any means, are not super skinny either. Katherine Hepburn was always thin, but was more athletic than anorexic. Merly Streep would not fit your description, neither would Liz Taylor after about 1956. How many Oscars did those women win between them? Hell Taylor’s best performance in her career is probably Whose Afraid of Virginia Wolf and that was well after her figure had diserted her. By your definition, the only great acting Taylor ever did was in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. And that is just not true.

                    3. Streep? Did you really buy into her Australian accent? Sure, if she was playing the main character in the biopic of Paul Hogan’s life given he hams up the accent for effect.

                      As for Kathrine Hepburn, well, rts said it best, de gustibus non est disputandum. She may be as good as you say, but I can’t get past the Ma’n’Pa Kettle accent. Too distracting. Incredible that Hollywood let her get away with that.

                    4. Also, a lot of Academy Award winning movies from that period don’t age well, and the award winning performances come across as wooden. I did endure the African Queen a few years ago. A cling clang nightmare.

                    5. To each his own. But I can think of about a 20 hebrun movies I would watch before I ever watched Breathless again. I think French Noire is self indulgent crap. I hate movies that try too hard to seem artistic and important. And that describes the entire genra. And Heburn’s accent is high end Connecticut. There is nothing ma and pa kettle about it. It is about as far away from Apalachia as Carmon Miranda.

                      I am not a big fan of Streep. But the rest of the world seems to be. Hard to say she is a bad actress given the amount of praise heeped upon her.

                      Great actresses are great actresses. They can be fat, they can be skinny. Kiera Knighly is exactly the type of face you are talking about and she can’t act her way out of a paper bag. I dont’ think she has ever made a scene that wasn’t painful to watch.

                    6. You seem concentrated entirely on film acting. Not many actresses have the luxury of working entirely in film. The demands of the stage are what makes the truth of what I say evident. Even so, it is true in film, as well. You can use counter examples until the cows come home, but the demand for skinny actresses has much less to do with some viewers desire to fuck the screen and more to do with the production needs of people who can emote (an aesthetic and physical quality) while saying lines. That is far better accomplished when your actresses are thin enough to see the tendons at work.

                    7. Stage acting makes your point even less so. There are tons of very accomplished stage actors like Kathy Bates who never made it big in film because they were too fat. It seems to be that stage actors are much more likely to be more normal sized or even heavy than screen actors. It is even true for men. Charles Durning was a leading man on Broadway.

                    8. You’re denying that production companies have a skewered preference for skinny actresses? It’s a fact. I’m just telling you why they necessarily do so, and it has nothing to do with gay guys running Hollywood or Broadway.

                    9. No it is not necessary to do. Kathy Bates and Durning to give two examples have made plenty of great movies. If you needed skinny people to “emote” why were they able to ever make even one decent movie let alone become great character actors?

                      Martin Sheen was way over weight when the filmed Apocolypse Now. So over weight they had to shoot the film just right because he simply wasn’t a believable soldier. Same with Brando.

                      I keep you all sorts of example of people who are not too skinny and are great actors. Sorry, but you can’t just write that off as “exceptions to the rule”. Clearly the rule isn’t valid or there wouldn’t be so many exceptions.

                      Why do they insist on actors being abnormally thin? Because that is the astetic ideal for the people who make movies not because it is necessary to be a great or even good actor.

                    10. You are really a stubborn one, John. To write off the demands of production towards mere aesthetic ideals of ‘the gay men of Hollywood’ is silly. Thin has the function I described above. Directors, cinematographers will tell you the same. That is where I got my answer, and I believe them because it makes a rational sense. They are not just there to provide you with a plump body to lust after. They need you as an audience to concentrate on the face whence the lines come to make the stories actually work.

                    11. I thought the gays ran Broadway and the Jews ran Hollywood.

                    12. To give you an example of stage versus screen. The orginal off broadway cast of Frankie and Johnny had Kathy Bates and Kenneth Welsh. When it was made into a Hollywood movie, the leads were Michelle Pfiffer and Al Pacino.

                      Now what is this about being skinny being more important on the stage?

                    13. See above. You know that the only thing you are doing is providing exceptions to a well know rule.

                    14. And Heburn’s accent is high end Connecticut. There is nothing ma and pa kettle about it.

                      All old Yankees sound alike. They may sound American homogenous while young, but eventually they sound as whistle-e as the Kettle couple. Heard Stephen King recently? He did not sound like that just a decade ago. K. H. always sounded like an old Yankee haggard, even when she was pretty.

                    15. She sounded that way because she was an old Yankee haggard. And I say this with all love and as a big fan. But we are who we are.

                    16. Ma and Pa? That was straight up Connecticut country club lockjaw.

                    17. By a fucking OS with spellcheck, man!!

                    18. By a fucking OS with spellcheck, man!!

                      I forget; does this fall under Joe’z or RC’s law? Or did you mean some meta-comment on John’s spelling?

                      Regardless, it is hilarious to read him cracking on O2 (or -3, -whatever.) for being unreadable.

                    19. It’s a long running joke on John’s spelling.

                      We all make typos, but John is a serial word butcher.

                      He’ll openly admit it too.

                    20. Not sure why you would be concerned about an actresses’ figure. That is what porn is for.

                      The face is from whence the lines come

                      So the on-screen feminine ideal, by you, is (essentially) Ray Bolger…?

                    21. He loves these women with no figures. I don’t get it.

                      De gustibus non est disputandum.

                    22. i’m not sure if i’d take loren over welch.

                      of course i’d take either in their heyday, but i’d probably have to say welch >>> loren

                2. Look at the ultimate twig actress Audrey Hepburn. Under 40 she was lovely. After 40 she looked like she had been smoking five packs a day.

                  I think that’s because she WAS smoking five packs a day.

              2. The best looking women in acting from the late 40’s and 50’s were Italian women because they really were emaciated from post war poverty.

                I’d take Jane Russell, Rita Hayworth, or Veronica Lake over just about anyone in Hollywood these days as far as looks go.

                1. I’d rather have this:

                  http://www.wwtdd.com/2011/11/m…..-to-dress/

                  1. I wouldn’t kick Fox out of bed. That is for sure. But what I can’t figure out is why I know who she is. I can’t think of a single thing she has ever done beyond be hot and get her picture taken by poperatzi.

                    1. if you are talking about megan fox, imo the movie “jennifer’s body” is actually pretty good. it’s kind of like mean girls, but in a horror movie. very tongue in cheek

                      but despite the fact that it’s a horror movie with megan fox, there is no nudity or boobage of note

                    2. In the first Transformers, I considered her a generic club girl brunette and dismissed her, but since that first encounter she has grown very easy on my eyes.

                    3. I have heard the name and thought she was an American swimmer or something, but I looked her up and … why does anyone think she’s hot with that misshapen face of hers? Are we even sure she’s human?

                2. I agree Red Rocks. And throw in Grace Kelly and Eva Marie Saint for good measure.

                  1. http://mazeofthoughts.files.wo…..graphy.jpg

                    That’s a good fucking photograph.

                    I’m with John, and I’m in my 20s — fuck the modern crop of quasi-anorexic B-movie extra-material actresses. Looking back, Red is totally right.

                  2. Don’t forget Lauren Bacall or Gene Tierney, if we’re talkin’ beeyootiful physical specimens.

                    1. I gotta go w/ Rita Hayworth.

                    2. Ever since I learned of Rita Hayworth’s unfortunate natural hairline (ever seen a chimpanzee?) I can’t look at her without seeing how artificial-looking her “widow’s peak” is.

          2. I think its a French saying that a woman has to choose between her face and her figure.

            1. Ahaw haw haw! Zat iz ze correct phwaze, Monsieur Deen.

    5. Because apparently Anne thinks those are the two choices, and that Wall Street is in charge of that.

      http://www.wwtdd.com/2011/11/a…..ll-street/

  7. The idea of bailing out these stupid fucks is just as stupid as the idea of bailing out the fucking banks. YOU FAILED, MORONS. You need to pay for that. It’s called being punished for sucking at life. Maybe you should have been smart enough to realize that racking up $100,000 dollars in debt that you can’t even claim bankruptcy on for a useless degree is fucking stupid.

    I’m not paying for your stupidity, scumbag. I’ve already had to pay for the shitbag bankers, and that was awful enough. Fuck you.

    1. What Episiarch said.

      *applauds*

    2. They didn’t even fail. They are not even trying. These stupid fucks are quitting and demanding a hand out because they found out it is hard and takes a lot of effort to succeed.

      1. Are you talking about the banks or OWS? 😉

    3. I think Exhibit #1 is them sitting in the streets rather than working or getting a marketable degree.

    4. “”The idea of bailing out these stupid fucks is just as stupid as the idea of bailing out the fucking banks.””

      The problem with bailing people out is that a line forms.

      1. Banks just deny they wanted the funds and claim they were “forced”.

    5. But . . . but . . . you promised us that if we played by the rules, you’d subsidize us.

    6. Maybe you should have been smart enough to realize that racking up $100,000 dollars in debt that you can’t even claim bankruptcy on for a useless degree is fucking stupid.

      +1 you.

  8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ

    Reminds of me of dumbass student dipshits like this

  9. Dealing with Student Loans is a freaking part of life. It’s all a result of nobody ever saying no to this (my) generation and giving trophies to every kid; lettering everyone on the roster, even if they didn’t play. For 18-25+ year olds, there is no work, there is no earnings, there is only “What I deserve.” It’s frustrating, when I am that age and I am working my ass off trying to make something of myself and I see these whiners.

    1. When I graduated from college, it was in a bad job market, and I ended up taking a couple of crappy jobs. That was with a Finance degree, which is moderately useful. But what I didn’t do was give up and start whining about how somebody owed me something.

      I had mind-numbing debt out of law school. I worked through it. Again, it was my decision–and perhaps not the wisest–to go to a private law school and accumulate that much debt, so I’m not looking for any bailouts.

    2. Dealing with Student Loans is a freaking part of life.

      I suspect most of then borrowed the money and partied in school, treating it like an extended vacation. The problem for many was they never learned how to stop.

      1. I’ve heard a few stories about cars, weddings, and other things being paid for with student loans.

        Since when did kids start thinking they get to keep their parents’ lifestyle when they leave for college?

        1. It’s been a gradual evolution, only now more and more parents can’t even afford it.

          1. My children aren’t getting much beyond help with tuition and basic living expenses. My oldest son, in college now, has a laptop and a cellphone, but he pays for those out of money he’s earned working. And no danged loans.

            There are times I think even that much might be spoiling him, but you never know.

            1. That’s the route I’m planning on also. My daughter is a junior in high school and we’ve already talked about college. I told her it’s best to wait until she’s sure what she wants to do before just charging right off with only a vague idea.

              1. I disagree.

                The first two years should be used to figure shit like that out. Most majors aren’t but the last 2 years anyhow. You can’t know whether a business degree is for you until you get in to a business classroom (same applies for every other discipline).

                That’s not to say that one should simply fuckk the fuck off the forst two years, but I don’t buy shoes without first trying them on; why should one pick a career/study path without the same benefit?

                1. That’s not to say that one should simply fuckk the fuck off the forst two years, but I don’t buy shoes without first trying them on; why should one pick a career/study path without the same benefit?

                  Because college is too expensive to spend two years “finding yourself.” And if the parents are helping out with tuition, then that goes double, because it’s not your own money that’s being spent in the pursuit.

                  There’s always the community college route for getting the basics out of the way. At least it would be cheaper.

                  1. It’s not about “finding yourself”. It’s about gaining exposure so that one can make an informed decision. Parents can’t help with that. Only first hand experience can.

                    It’s more of a waste of money to walk in blind than it is to survey the field in the first 2 years. That’s EXACTLY what the first 2 years of study are designed for.

        2. It happened when parents stopped teaching their children that they have to work for what they need instead of having it handed to them.

    3. Dealing with Student Loans is a freaking part of life.

      I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. I’m 38, have a decent job, and am still taking night classes to get my AS. The only thing I’ve graduated from to this point is high school. I’ve never taken out a student loan, I pay for my current classes in cash. If a person is smart enough they can get around all that bullshit.

      1. I guess I should say smart enough and willing to work hard.

      2. Yea, well you’re also getting a second rate education from a community college. Congratulations on being smart though.

        The arguement for students being forgiven of their debt rests around the fact that higher education cost is enoruously inflated by government subsidity. At UT where I attend it rises about 20% annually. The demand is artificial, created by gov spending. This requires most people go into enormous debt, though it may start as 25,000 as Nick states, after interest, if not paid in 20 years that would amount to 82,755.11 if compunded monthly at 6% inerest. This means that anyone who made what could also be considered a “smart” descision by going to even a reasonable state university, but unknowingly invests in a major that subsuquently becomse much less profitable, for instance Journalism, becomes a lower class citizen and despite a considerable investment in education cannot pay off the loan. This may give insight into the desperation of journalists who rely on pandering to their markets ideology.

        Although the average salary may be high, it is percisely the students who have not paid off the debt in 20 years for whom salaries would be low.

        Thanks to the government, a minor initial investment which would require real work and thought to build up to can be traded for simply signing a loan note. If required to pay for it up front, you’ll now be forced to make considerably more money first or accept a lesser education that may not enable you to see the complex problems created by government subsidised loans for education which influenced your descision. Basically, when the government subsidizes loans it increases the risk involved with education. Government repayment of student loan debt after 20 years is a stop guard on that risk to encourage students to continue taking it.

        This differs from the bailouts of the banks because it is a risk that adds value to society rather than removing it and takes place after 20 years of attempted payment rather than immediately.

      3. Yea, well you’re also getting a second rate education from a community college. Congratulations on being smart though.

        The arguement for students being forgiven of their debt rests around the fact that higher education cost is enoruously inflated by government subsidity. At UT where I attend it rises about 20% annually. The demand is artificial, created by gov spending. This requires most people go into enormous debt, though it may start as 25,000 as Nick states, after interest, if not paid in 20 years that would amount to 82,755.11 if compunded monthly at 6% inerest. This means that anyone who made what could also be considered a “smart” descision by going to even a reasonable state university, but unknowingly invests in a major that subsuquently becomse much less profitable, for instance Journalism, becomes a lower class citizen and despite a considerable investment in education cannot pay off the loan. This may give insight into the desperation of journalists who rely on pandering to their markets ideology.

        Although the average salary may be high, it is percisely the students who have not paid off the debt in 20 years for whom salaries would be low.

        Thanks to the government, a minor initial investment which would require real work and thought to build up to can be traded for simply signing a loan note. If required to pay for it up front, you’ll now be forced to make considerably more money first or accept a lesser education that may not enable you to see the complex problems created by government subsidised loans for education which influenced your descision. Basically, when the government subsidizes loans it increases the risk involved with education. Government repayment of student loan debt after 20 years is a stop guard on that risk to encourage students to continue taking it.

        This differs from the bailouts of the banks because it is a risk that adds value to society rather than removing it and takes place after 20 years of attempted payment rather than immediately.

  10. 4. Maybe if these people spent as much time getting degrees that were worth a damn, they wouldn’t have problems paying off their loans.

    1. Exactly. OWS doesn’t seem to have any Asian kids who studied engineering in their population. Why would that be?

      1. They’re too busy working, earning money, and succeeding at life — something these fuckbags aren’t familiar with

      2. That’s pretty racist. Those little yellow bastards have it just as rough as the rest of the protesters. The difference is, their parents are making them work at their restaurant and keeping them from becoming the programmers they were bred to be.

        1. Don’t forget about the liquor stores and dry cleaners!

          1. So solly! I folgot those praces.

            1. Which reminds me. Is this commercial racist?

              1. And if anyone cares, I found the most racist commercial of all time.

                Enjoy.

                1. That’s just beautiful, in a trainwreck sort of way.

                2. That isn’t a real commercial.

                  1. Obviously. But it’s still funny as fuck.

                    1. fell out of chair laughing. Right out of South Park. Thanks for sharing.

                3. Declare war on the cold front!

                  Actually not a bad slogan, but the imagery they used leaves a bit to be desired.

  11. Caption:

    “I got all my shots at Teh OWS!”

  12. Correct, but clearly these people have not been educated, so a fraud has been committed. This little game must stop. The colleges and the government are both culpable. If there was justice in this country, that is where we’d go to for the assets.
    Uneducated clowns won’t be able to pay off these loans.

  13. She’s got a fish-face. I’ve never understood her appeal.

    If a round and supple, fish-like orbicularis oris doesn’t conjure up a rich tapestry of naughty thoughts, I pity you RRR.

  14. Uneducated clowns won’t be able to pay off these loans.

    And how exactly is this my responsibility to resolve?

    1. Because they can hopefully get the politicians to rob you. Duh. Come on, man; this shit is very simple.

    2. Because you’re a filthy Rethugitarian. And you didn’t vote for Obama because he was black. Therefore, the speed of light is 323 miles per hour, and it’s your responsibility to resolve students’ debt problems.

      1. Therefore, the speed of light is 323 miles per hour,

        I bet you’ve never even heard of Nash Equilibrium, have you? Nash Equilibrium!

        1. The only thing worse than a Rethuglicuntarian is a Rethuglicuntarian who knows shit about game theory. How many Korean kids have you skull-fucked this week, racist homophobic racist guy?

          1. How many Korean kids have you skull-fucked this week, racist homophobic racist guy?

            Two Penn State administrators walk into a butt…

        2. I have!!! It’s that thing about hitting on ugly chicks, right?

          1. Isn’t there a Dodge Challenger and a guy named “Cheech” involved somehow?

  15. Kinnath: One of my friends is USMC, and pretty much his entire platoon thinks the Occupy movement is a bunch of either 1) lazy dipshits with zero percent knowledge and 100 percent free time, 2) socialist morons, or (the most telling) 3) “the engineers of their own downfall”.

    Is there hope that if the federales ever turn against us the military will be on our side? It looks like there might be.

    1. Sure. The one thing I dont lay awake worrying about is the military joining the Feds against armed insurrection. One of the things they so right in all branches of the service is indoctrinate that American civilians may be wrong but they will never be targets.

      1. I wouldn’t go that far.

        I have a friend who just got out recently, and is CONVINCED that the biggest threat to America is home grown terrorism.

        He’s very excited about thenewly announced Rainbow 6, not because it’ll likely be a great 1st person shooter, but because he’ll get to “shoot some redneck militia in the face” (a direct quote from his email to me about the game).

        1. not because it’ll likely be a great 1st person shooter, but because he’ll get to “shoot some redneck militia in the face” (a direct quote from his email to me about the game).

          Tell him the only good thing about the Homefront game was getting to slash Commies in the throat. That might make him think twice about sharing such sentiments with you.

          1. It’s not even worth it anymore. Our friendship has been extremely strained of late because we are at polar opposites politically.

            His greatest lament after leaving the army was that he never had the chance to kill him some redneck “terrorists” (you know, because of the vast history of militia violence. Or something.).

            1. MLG, there comes a point when a man has to drop “friends” who wouldn’t mind throwing him in a gulag for “sympathizing” with “terrorists”. If your parents have any friends, do they agree with them politically? I think there is a reason older people usually only have a couple of close associates.

    2. “the military will be on our side”

      The oath is to support and defend the Constitution, not a government.

      I’d bet on it.

      1. Having been in the military, I can tell you that most of the kids who sign up don’t have any real understanding of what their oath entails. They see it as just another hurdle they have to take before they get sent to boot camp.

        1. The kids aren’t leading. The officers are. For the most part, they do understand it. Not that it would be a unanimous decision, but I’d still say the majority.

        2. If only most soldiers have no idea what their oath entails, they are far ahead of Congress.

  16. But letting people off the hook for loans they made with full knowledge of the costs will […] dissuade anyone from lending to students…
    Isn’t that a good thing? Fewer student loans will put pressure on schools to reduce the price of their products/services.

    1. Fewer Hellspawn statists in office would help, too. Except the electorate’s largely composed of either sheep, misguided but well-meaning statists, or downright malicious asshats. Can we get a redo on the elections of 2008?

    2. Fewer student loans will put pressure on schools to reduce the price of their products/services.

      There’s nothing to prevent more bad loans being made.

    3. The whole process is two-fold. School’s need to reduce their prices, but parents/teachers/and the media need to stop promoting a college “education” as the end-all/be-all of life. This world could always use more people willing to work in skilled trades and the like.

      The fact is, kids majoring in things like womyn’s studies, should probably be spending these wastrel years bottling beer in a factory and not accruing $100,000 in debt “learning” about the prevalence of phallic symbols in the world.

  17. With regard to the 3rd paragraph under reason #1: if an 18-year-old is incapable of “understand[ing] what they’re getting into and shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions”, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

    1. + 100,000,000.01.

      Cognitive dissonance, how the fuck does it work? Oh, you can just ask a 99-percenter? Awesome!

    2. right. they are mature enough to decide on an abortion at 16

      but can’t make financial decisions at 18?

      1. Traditionally, the age of majority was 21 … but citizens frequently started working by age 10. There was this silly idea back then, that one should get some experience before being expected to be fully adult.

        I support the abolition of child labor laws, and the introduction of a clearly delineated period of diminished responsibility. For example, an 18 year old might be allowed to sign a contract, but only so long as that contract held no obligations beyond five years time. Perhaps there could even be some exceptions – like allowing students to be held liable for college loans up to 20 years after graduating.

        The idea at this age is to teach responsibility before practicing it. It is absurd that our nation expect everyone to be an infant up through the age of 17, and then to be a fully formed adult on their 18th birthday.

  18. The 9 Demands of the 99%.
    http://ninedemands.com/petitions/dailykos

    Despite totally ripping off Herman Cain’s 999 stunt – they do let the proles choose the 9th demand.

    I demanded pizza.

    What’s financial speculation tax?
    Commies confuse me.

    1. I asked for a pony. I wonder when I’ll get my tracking number?

    2. 9. Ignore the first eight demands. Get a job, commie!

  19. The Vietnam Wart is over, dumb asses!

    1. lol!

    2. Strikes again!

  20. Last I looked the Army will pay off up to 65K of your loans in return for just a few years service as an enlisted. It is a tough gig. But fuck it, it beats poverty.

    And if you can’t do that move to Canada and tell the loan people to go fuck themselves. Or, just move to a cheap city and set up a income based repayment plan. Sure, you will never pay off the loan. But you won’t go into default so your credit will never be affected. And there is a limit to how much of your income they can take. Yeah, it sucks to have the feds take 10% or whatever it is of your post tax income for life. But it sucks to get cancer or never have a chance to go to college. Sometimes life is like that.

    I would hate to have six figures of non-dischargable debt hanging over me. But there are worst fates. I would rather have that than be disabled. Or what about people who fucked up when they were young and have some drug conviction in their past? Talk about being fucked. Take your pick 150K of debt and a degree (albeit a useless one) or a felony drug conviction? I am taking the debt and the degree.

    Yeah, these kids are spoiled whinners. They have never faced any hardship or been told no in their lives. And now they are throwing a temper tantrum about it.

    1. Totally agree. Did these kids honestly never hear the favorite phrase of my dad (and, I used to think, of parents the world over): “Life isn’t fair.” Simple as that. Do the best with what you have, accept that your actions have consequences, try to have some fucking perspective. Pretty basic life lessons. Welcome to the planet, OWS-ers.

      1. It is like that old line from Annie Hall, life is divided into two parts, the miserable and the horrible. The horrible are people are profoundly disabled or kids who are kinapped and murdered. The rest is the miserable. So be glad you are miserable because your life could be horrible.

        These kids have no perspective and no sense of duty to themselves. It used to be people had this sense of duty to themselves. You did what was necessary to take care of yourself and your family no matter what. If that meant working some horrible, dangerous job your whole life that is what you did. What would these little shits do if they had been born a hundred years ago and the only choice other than starvation was go work in a coal mine or something?

        Fifty years of leftist twits running our education system is finally coming home to roost.

        1. What about that brief period, post industrialization, pre institutionalized slavery that brought about the whole idea of freedom that birthed this country? Is that concept dead to you cynics?

          1. pre institutionalized slavery

            You mean before income taxes?

      2. My parents certainly used that phrase on me, and it stuck, even though I fought it for a while in my earlier years.

        In re my comment below, the kids whose parents say “life isn’t fair” seem to fare better than those who just whine about unfairness and expect the White Knight of welfare to come to their rescue.

      3. I understand your point, but my memories of my dad telling me “life isn’t fair” are all related to me complaining about him being a dick. Sure, kids need to understand that life requires effort and that no one owes it to them to make it easier, but they also should be able to expect fairness from their own parents.

        1. And your Dad is free to be a dick, which is fair for him, just not you.

      4. Mother Drax still says “Life sucks, and then you die”. Although I think her attitude helped contribute to my bouts with depression, objectively, she isn’t wrong. I guess it’s important to look at things relatively: Would these kids rather have $100,000 of debt and live in 21st century U.S.A. or would they rather have a feudal lord and be working on some god-forsaken blood soaked land in Medieval Eastern Europe? Or Ancient China, India, etc? Would they rather be a Native American dieing of smallpox (Oh fuck, that’ll bring White Arsehole out)? If they say yes, they are free to find some piece of undeveloped Wyoming or North Dakota and die of exposure.

    2. They have never faced any hardship or been told no in their lives. And now they are throwing a temper tantrum about it.

      True for the most part. After working in a charter school in one of the worst cities in NJ, and in one of the best high schools in a very wealthy suburban NJ uber-district (a ‘regional’ school), I’ve seen what saying no does to (some) kids. Some are OK at handling it; others crumple at the mere making of the “nnnn” sound.

      The kids from Hispanic and Turkish or otherwise Muslim households in Paterson were the hardest workers. Blacks, not so much with a few notable exceptions. White suburban kids were either with it and able to go with the flow, able to fake it, or totally incapable of handling academic or other responsibilities. School was a joke to this majority.

      In my experience, I did notice this: Hispanic and other immigrant kids (aside from Asians) in the wealthy suburban district performed more poorly and had a more negative view than the Hispanic/Muslim/Black kids from Paterson. I am still trying to articulate exactly what this might mean.

      In general, though, the hard workers and system-gamers are always going to win. Everyone who sees themselves as a victim or a slave will continue to be one until the very end, regardless of any education level achieved.

      1. Recently on HBO there was a really good documentary about high school basketball in North Jersey (called Prayer for a Perfect Season). One of the players they featured was this really talented, bright kid who went to the private Catholic school that had the awesome basketball team. His twin brother stayed at their local public school, hanging around with thugs, and ended up in prison. Sure, they are two different individuals, but I think the environment you’re in makes a huge difference too. That little example definitely made me more certain that I’d never send my kids to public school if I could help it.

        1. And I think it’s genetics.

          Tell you what, I’ll bet that if you take some ghetto-ass criminal and swap him out with a successful commodities trader, the trader would eventually become successful and the negro would slip into his criminal ways. Because of breeding.

          We can bet the usual amount, I presume?

    3. Yeah, it sucks to have the feds take 10% or whatever it is of your post tax income for life.

      Almost as much as it sucks to have them take 15% of your pre-tax income right out of your paycheck, and up to another 30-odd% on an annual basis.

    4. I agree with everything you said, except that 6 figures of debt + useless degree = automatic poverty. First of all, if you listen to Dave Ramsey’s radio show, there are many people who call in each week who have paid off 6 figure debt, usually in just a few years. Secondly, you can get wealthy just by cutting grass in this country if you start your own business. It doesn’t matter what your degree was in.

  21. Is Dave Weigal the new Slim Shady?

    1. Either that or the old rectal. Your pick.

      1. OK, this is getting old, squirrels. This is supposed to be in reply to the little snot-nosed fuck below.

  22. Why is it that the people who leave comments on Reason articles are out of their minds? Seriously, you people need to get off the computers.

    1. You don’t know where i have been, Cody!

    2. This is like the worst chat room ever.

    3. Why is it that the people who leave comments on Reason articles are out of their minds?

      “Thank you for your contribution, Mr. Moulitsas.”

  23. So I guess people who leave comments on the Reason commenters are even crazier?

    1. Its crazies all the way down.

    2. Incepti—

    3. Not crazy. Neurotic, i.e. narcissistic.

      1. ^ Take Warty. Please.

  24. very lender clearly spells out exactly how much you’re on the hook for and what your monthly payments are going to be after you leave school.

    Critics say that 18-year-olds don’t understand what they’re getting into and shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions.

    Master Promissory Notes, and entrance counseling are mandated by the Feds, and have been part of the student loan process for a long time.

    For an 18 year old to take out a federally backed student loan, mommy and daddy have to provide information as part of the application process. Sure, and 18 year old may not understand what they are getting into, but there parents should be expected to understand.

    1. Yep. Parents need to view this as an investment, but a negative one: “Which degree can I reasonably support my child getting, so that I don’t become liable for supporting their sorry asses in the future?” Maybe making them liable for payoff if their child can’t pay (say subject to exemptions for tragic circumstances, e.g., death of the child, physical incapacity to do the work related to the degree, etc.).

    2. You can’t even get a student loan if you’re under 25 and unmarried, if your parents are unwilling to provide their financial information. My niece got married because her father refused to provide his information and my sister was unemployed. Her dad mostly didn’t want our side of the family to have access to any information about his finances. My niece probably would have married the guy anyway, but I was holding out hope for a break up until that point.

  25. More proof that Obama has been groomed for a very long time:

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11…..chool-era/

  26. The primary purpose of a liberal education in college is to teach the students critical thinking.

    That skill which should tell them that borrowing a huge amount of money to get a french fry degree is probably a bad idea.

    Yes, I know, here he goes bashing the liberal arts majors again. Facts are facts. If you borrow $50K to get an MIS or EE degree, you can pay that off comfortably and have confidence that you have invested wisely in your future. If you get a degree in deconstructionistic Hiaku, then probably not.

    The point of these student loans was to give kids who would otherwise be blocked from college financially, a chance to BETTER themselves. Not to waste 4-6 years of their lives studying topics that don’t improve your ability to solve some real world problem (like the EE degree) or don’t teach the critical reasoning skills that make a liberal arts degree worth getting in the first place.

    @John: Agree with your assessment about the loan repayment. Also, these kids could go work for a non-profit (like most hospitals, churches, Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc) and get a reduced rate of repayment and loan balance forgiveness.

    Definition of whining: Knowingly doing something self-destructive expecting to be bailed out, then protesting when the 99% of us who know better prefer to use our money for our own puposes.

    1. Also, these kids could go work for a non-profit (like most hospitals, churches, Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc) and get a reduced rate of repayment and loan balance forgiveness.

      Why?

      1. The current regs give nurses who work at charity hospitals a break due to lower incomes than at private facilities. NGO’s and other NPO’s are a seldom discussed way to work in your chosen profession and save on your student loans.

    2. A heavy course load of math and science does wonders for critical thinking skills.

    3. There was an anti war commercial that came out a few years ago. In it it had this smug looking soccer mom talking about the war and people serving in it and giving the punch line “not my child”.

      Taking the war out of the equation for a minute, I always thought that commercial was a good example of a really disturbing trend among the upper middle class and upper class in this country. By making the punch line “not my child” it was implying that the war was okay as long as it didn’t require her brat to go fight it. What really seemed to bug the woman in the commercial was not the war so much but the idea that her brat might have to go do something she considered distasteful.

      There seems to be this idea that parents have engrained into this generation that certain jobs are just beneath them. And so those repayment options, the Red Cross, Churches, Military, is just not good enough for this generation. That is what common people do not them.

      1. The United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force are a wholly professional force — service is entirely voluntary. It’s like many people don’t realize that when they rail against the EVIL MILITARY!!!!!

        I guess I fit into another spectrum. I’m rabidly patriotic, and I sternly believe in and advocate martial capability and its upkeep in general. I’d be proud to serve myself. But sending Americans to fight and die for the sake of 1) tribes of degenerate quasi-barbarians whose minds and impulses are stuck in the 13th century, or 2) the satisfaction of sociopolitical moods-of-the-day/generation is God-awfully fucking disgusting.

        Also, how the fuck could anybody say that honest service in the military is beneath them? How the fuck does that even work?

        1. +1

        2. Also, how the fuck could anybody say that honest service in the military is beneath them? How the fuck does that even work?

          They might say that they refuse to work for the government in any capacity, including the military, because that means getting paid with money stolen from others, which is hardly honest.

          Or they might object to working for one of the most socialistic workplaces in the nation.

          Other than that, I got nothing.

          1. I put it to you that the only legitimate job of government is to protect the rights of the individual. Therefor defending those rights from foreign aggression is a legitimate function of government.

            Do you believe there are legitimate government functions? If so, how would you propose funding them?

            I hate what our government has become, but they do have a legitimate role to play, albeit an EXTREMELY limited role.

            1. The people who decide to hire the organization calling itself a “government” to protect them pay for the service they hired the organization to perform….

            2. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a legitimate governmental monopoly on force financed by compulsory taxation. Taxation is theft, and there is no such thing as legitimate theft. Paying protection money to a mob calling itself the “legitimate government” does not change the fact that that is coercion.

              If you want to not get killed or kidnapped or otherwise harmed by foreigners, a government-like entity, competing with other such entities, can legitimately offer to protect you from such thugs if you choose to enroll with them rather than taking matters into your own hands.

              1. I would counter that taxation is only theft when one individual pays more than another individual, yet both receive the same service.

                I wonder how your preferred system of defense would work in the real world? Your “government-like entity” wouldn’t be competing with other government like entities, it would be competing with nation-states. I’m sure you’ll agree with me that history is full of scenarios where unprovoked aggressors have invaded to take what others have. If the Russians, for example, decide for whatever reason, to attack you, how could your little band be expected to repel fighters, tanks, missiles, nukes…?

                This is where anarchism (I’m making an assumption you are an anarchist) breaks down. Just because you are peaceful doesn’t mean the rest of the world will reciprocate.

                Now, do I believe our military is being asked to go WAY beyond what it should. You bet. But to get rid of it in its entirety? Can’t be done.

                The ONLY purpose of government is to protect the rights of its citizenry.

      2. There seems to be this idea that parents have engrained into this generation that certain jobs are just beneath them.

        Not SEEMS, John–it’s an actual philosophy:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgFhnWXOcJM

        1. Ay, Dios mio!

  27. This will make you feel somewhat better about the OWSers.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/20…..ll-street/

    1. Utterly vile. People on here were joking earlier about needing a reason to legitimately punch these pieces of trash. Following you and your child down the street yelling at you? Abso-fucking-lutely. Punch away.

      1. Five of the seven dudes I go to the range with would have pulled their guns on those fuckers and scared the living fucking daylights out of their worthless fucking carcasses. It’s easy to harass people when you’re a mob of thousands. Really noble, eh?

        1. Seriously. It’s a sign of how alien NYC is to me that my first reaction was “No one was armed?”

          Like, a rampaging mob following me down the street, while I’m walking with my kids? Well that pushes all the Papa Wolf buttons.

        2. Generally, it’s a bad idea to brandish when you probably don’t have enough rounds to take on all your potential assailants. Just keep walking.

          Also, probably a bad idea to brandish in front of police officers.

          1. Generally, it’s a bad idea to brandish when you probably don’t have enough rounds to take on all your potential assailants. Just keep walking.

            Generally, you’d be correct–but the Phaggot Striver Poors would back down pretty quick, especially once you pointed out which specific ones you were going to take down if they came any closer.

            1. “There may be 20 of you, but I’ve got 12 rounds and am a helluva shot. How many of you want to take the chance that you’ll be one of the lucky 8?”

    2. From the comments. I have no idea what this has to do with OWS. But, the stupidity is just astounding. Ladies and gentleman, this is what we are up against. Excuse me while I go cry for our future while.

      owning a gun has gone from “stupid” to “dangerous & criminal”
      the fact my neighbor has a gun, puts both my family and my own life in danger
      if the gun was to accidentally discharge, if the was an intruder in my neighbors house and he decides to shoot that intruder, what if my neighbors son decides to commit suicide, all those situations put my families life in danger and i believe that is criminal

      sure, back when people needed to fight for their rights, guns were helpful
      but obviously we don’t need them anymore, we have a bill of rights and its not like the cops are infringing on the FIRST amendment on anything?
      oh wait? freedom to assemble? freedom of the press? and arresting peaceful protesters sure infringes on their right of free speech

      ? so which do you choose?
      the bill of rights or something else?

      1. So wait, he’s saying that we don’t need guns because our rights are not being infringed, and then he goes on to enumerate ways in which our rights are being infringed?

        THIS IS WHAT LEFTISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

      2. Just how many neighbors get shot while minding their own business? I know of exactly one accidental discharge in an apartment that endangered neighbors. [elided 2000 word rant about clearing the fucking chamber before cleaning or any time you handle a gun]

        1. Two words describe most liberals knowledge of fire arms; ignorant and superstitious.

          1. Dude, what’s wrong with you today??! You’re about THE most charitable, kindhearted, even-headed person in the world, because “ignorant and superstitious” doesn’t even BEGIN to describe it. See: Famous Congressmen trying to ban barrel shrouds.

            1. My favorite was that time Sen. Feinstein swept the crowd at a press conference with an AK type rifle with the bolt closed, magazine in, and her finger in the trigger guard.

              No one batted an eye. They just assumed the gun was empty. Ignorance really doesn’t quite say it.

        2. That commenter clarifies further downthread: he was apparently attempting sarcasm? Or something?

          im actually a gun owner myself? im making a point dude, the first amendment is the most important? the second amendment protects it
          if law enforcement can ignore the first amendment, whats stopping them from ignoring the second amendment..
          im a patriot and believe in the bill of right that our forefarthers believed every american deserves
          They fought and died for what the believed in, are you really willing to throw that away to get right of some protestors that annoy you?

          1. Thanks. I kind of gave up on the comments after I saw the first one.

          2. “if law enforcement can ignore the first amendment, whats stopping them from ignoring the second amendment..”

            Uh, the second amendment?

          3. are you really willing to throw that away to get right of some protestors that annoy you?

            Qua?

    3. “… but… but… we’re doing this for YOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU — !!!”

  28. Ask those dopes how many of them are willing to voluntarily sign away their right access to credit forever in exchange for student loan “forgiveness”. Of course, you’d have to explain what that actually means.

    “Wait- I’d always have to pay CASH for anything I want? That’s, like, stupid, and stuff!”

    1. Oh, they’d take that deal. Then they’d turn right around and whine that they can’t afford to pay cash for a car or a house, so someone should give them a subsidy.

      1. or prices would stop being artificially inflated by credit and would return to normal market levels which people could afford to pay for without creating enormous debt bubbles and market instabilities that are only really profitable for “investors”

    2. I would rather pay for everything in cold, hard cash. In fact, I think everyone should have to do without credit and learn to live within their means.
      Watch prices drop and quality improve.

    3. I would rather pay for everything in cold, hard cash. In fact, I think everyone should have to do without credit and learn to live within their means.
      Watch prices drop and quality improve.

  29. If you get a degree in deconstructionistic Hiaku, then probably not.

    The few hundred people who get small-pond degrees like that have really good odds of sliding into a crazily high-paying corporation-endowed university job, and “upper middle class” media drudgery that compensates them beyond the average person’s wildest imaginings is available for almost all of them as a fallback. Supply/demand, such as it is in comedy-premise degree land, isn’t far out of whack.

    It’s the millions who get those $80k degrees in oversupplied “career” fields like law, psychology, political science, etc. who are fucked?and who want to venge-fuck the rest of us via politics.

    And they’ll do it.

    1. A banker of my acquaintance said the bank would be happy to loan a student money for a degree in puppetry…as long as the old man securitized with his house, or, of course, if Uncle Sugar stood behind it 100%. Otherwise,
      he’d hand him an employment application for Starbucks or enlistment papers.

  30. Nick Gillespie is the editor in chief of Reason.com and Reason.tv and the co-author with Matt Welch of The Declaration of Independents: How Libertarian Politics Can Fix What’s Wrong with America.

    WTF? When did this happen, and why am I just now reading about it?

    1. Inorite! You would think that, on a site they run, they would be pushing that thing constantly.

  31. thank you a lotssssssssssssssssss

    1. ?????????

      Pictures of intercourse, pictures of some forms of sexual intercourse for married couples only

      1 – deep

      This situation prepares intercourse dramatically woman put her knees against her chest while

      Her legs are over the shoulder of the man Abamkan man focal point of this very deep intercourse

      2 – rear front

      In this situation the man lying on his back, raising his knees, while women are on it supported by

      Her chest on his knees and face reverse

      Conditions to deepen the feelings of pleasure in the exercise of love

      advertisement

      Just as happy in a man making love with his wife, he loves to be happier
      If he feels that his wife respond to him she loves him and makes him feel that he is the desirable and the other on
      Wife to take into account that the cohabitation means to express their love and emotions
      Hot and not only sexual act.

      The wife also know that the exercise of love with the husband’s experience is delicious
      The exchange of pleasure through the give and take.

      One of the wives sent a letter which says that her husband was angry during exercise
      Sex with her is lying beneath it, without doing nothing – just sleeping in the fixed Ahrkh
      And the wife says it wants to entertain her husband and saturation, but it’s what you want to change the situation
      If riding her husband (ie, be is it) or allow him to sleeping with a based
      To her legs and her arms and her back to the highest in intercourse with her husband from the back (which is
      The way the animals).

      And the wife said in her message, saying she hates her body began, and feel Balkhouk
      View of her husband during her practice of love and asked to find a solution to her problem.

      Experts say that marital relations that correspond to the wife with her husband and accused of doing
      Only the role of puppet sex act blowing air.

      This role is concerned about the negative pair absence of activity with the group to function
      Response and interaction during the meeting with the husband makes him feel as if his wife does not wish
      And longs to him.

      That a husband loves his wife and the complainant wants to express that love sexually convergence
      And communicate with them and the husband was in constant intercourse, it means that
      Meng ** to his wife and she raised her Otg ** e, but he is keen Alyasaadha
      And Amtalla and not what he felt angry for not responding.

      He wants to feel that he wanted his wife and the wife was the complainant if you want to
      Really entertain her husband, it will have to let his own and respond to Mdaabath
      And share the practice of love in a positive way and to achieve this they must change their way
      Rigid and try new things and touched other areas for fun and adventure sensory
      .

      And if her husband was riding movement is acceptable for its part it will have to try
      The other situations that they can lie down on its side in a manner parallel to the side of her husband
      To the side or lie down on the edge of the bed with her husband to have intercourse with penetration from the front
      He was standing on his feet with bending over his wife as a wife can diversify conditions
      While sitting on a chair significantly.

      That the commitment to the wife that the only situation that does not change is to lie on
      Her back and her top and remain static in this way – reduces the chances of fun
      To reach the peak of this should be exploited admired her and desire her body where
      In the development of movements and gain more confidence in her body and can be the same as for the wife
      To review the way in which her body like a pair Ttheir reveal Fajdaha and moved
      And Rkiha and exploit her lips and used her hands and released to the world of fun and love
      And happiness and to respond fully with the pair

      Methods of intercourse

      Method of Knight
      Beloved wives all the way .. By making the wife is dominant and controlling and-Self is that lying husband on his back and come the wife and ride it like fiction riding a horse and put her hands or on the chest of her husband or Tdahmha on her breasts for more excitement as the husband can be gentle stirring her breasts as she can bend to swap him for kisses ..

      (2)
      Way the global normal
      This method is most prevalent in the world to lay the wife on her back with open legs and then comes the pair above, and damage to her legs behind him or Fhama so that the chest on the chest and Alugean facing each other for the exchange of kisses and be more fun and foreplay until the hand touching the breasts and other ..

      (3)
      Method of intercourse deep
      This method makes sex exciting for both parties is that the wife lay on her back has been pinned her hands on her head was pasted Besderha her thighs while the legs over the shoulder of her husband .. Here, the husband can be up to a point in a very deep intercourse note that this method does not work, but the wife’s graceful flex either pregnant or fat can not have it properly ..

      (4)
      Method of face-to-face
      This way, the wife sitting briefly on the edge of the bed or on a chair and most importantly, to not be as high from the center of the pair .. And the interviewer face to face with open legs and can Ttnehma wife about the husband ..

      (5)
      Incubation method of upper
      And is the way that lie Alzojhaly her back and extends her legs and hands and slept pair it has dispersed her legs so he could enter the penis and then closed her legs and Tafrdahma and the husband is the one who controls the advantage of this method is that it makes the vagina too narrow when closed wife’s thighs more than it gives the husband the joy of this narrow

      (6)
      The way the wheel
      This method is cumbersome for both parties so that adherence to the wife by the chair or a table and brought the pair of feet, so come and middle standing is penetration with is governed by their full, where it will be her thighs with his hands to pull and push with the possibility that commends made of her knee on the back to lean ..
      Many tough

      (7)
      Way to sit back
      This method is fun .. And brings intercourse exciting, especially for the wife as it relieves the husband from tiredness and fatigue, be that lying husband on his back and come the wife and sit him Kavarsh but back-to-face pair and thus controls the wife in the speed of movement and enjoy whatever you want as she can down her back on the chest of her husband, which gives the husband the opportunity to fondling breasts with his hands ..
      Do not miss

      (8)
      Method of superposition
      This method is beautiful and the sense of romance and large the overlap couple to each other completely and is that lying husband on his back and lie down wife over it so that her breasts against his chest with the individual legs far apart and stick the feet and controls the couple having intercourse research that the wife’s flying tail and the pair have been withdrawn by his hands from her waist ..

      (9)
      The background of how to respond
      This way you need to seat sofa with the husband sitting by the open legs and a wife to come sit Bhoudnh so give her back or her side and this gives them the opportunity to kissing and caressing with the speed control Alsamat intercourse ..

      (10)
      The way in the background, standing
      This way, and standing so that the wife put her hands on the wall or cupboard and the husband comes back from standing so commends the wife herself a little ..
      Beautiful way in which the renewal of those who love the movements

      (11)
      Situation the way back
      Method may tire pair, especially the legs and knees and take that to be the wife put prostrate, but with the lifting of the middle of her hands and her husband came from behind and stick to it and these exciting way to Wife as her vagina will be in the best of the mess, to have intercourse ..

      (12)
      How romantic
      This way all the romantic and the summit of love between the couple and where intercourse romance and quiet and be Balmujha face to face from the side, which is similar to the way sleep between their arms, but here the wife raises her leg upper when Musbandta husband and it comes Bosta fully between her legs with granting it to some strongly so that the hands of the wife on the back the husband and vice versa for the husband ..
      Way summit in romance

      (13)
      The way the Persians offense
      This method is like a beautiful way to sit back, but the difference here that the husband raises his knees while his wife is based on the knees and stick my hand Bardaffha husband from the back of the movement

      (14)
      Way to sit face to face
      Briefly in this way, the man with the individual legs and wife come and sit in his lap and offset face-to-face so that her legs behind the back of the husband and the Rigah give space for the longest penis penetration ..

      (15)
      Way leg outstretched
      And that is the way the wife lie on her back and legs provide a good tide and raise the lift well and then the other comes between her thighs and her husband are having intercourse ..

      (16)
      Method of intercourse the back romantic
      And that is the way the wife sleeps on her stomach and extend the legs and inability to raise the lift well and the husband sleeps with it and have intercourse with her grabbed her head and kiss her neck and back with her cheeks and lips, too, can such

      The original topic: images of intercourse, pictures of some forms of sexual intercourse for married couples only | | Author: Rsaom | | Source: Mall of the Gulf of marketing Dannatt

      1. The internet is for porn!
        The internet is for porn!
        Me up all night honking me horn
        For porn, porn, porn!

        1. Vermin shit in new clothes remains vermin shit.
          Please, no feeding.

          1. sevo, meet Don Quixote.

  32. thank you a lotssssssssssssssssss

  33. Yes/No/Maybe: the dude in the video still-shot refers to himself as an “intellectual” in conversation.

  34. Well I went to community college for two years, paid for that by myself, and am now finishing up my poli sci degree at a reputable university. I’ll graduate with maybe 22K in student debt, which I think is very managable if one works hard and budgets accordingly. I’m also paying for an apartment by myself, without any help from my parents to pay for rent and utilities.

    How do you think it would go over if I explained to the many, many classmates that college is not a right, that it’s something you plan for and invest in, and that if I can do what I’ve done, then there is really no reason why anyone else can’t? This is just a combination of lazy students, Marxoid professors, and opportunisitic politicians looking for young votes.

    1. How would it go over? The would probably crucify you.

  35. So because “on average” people make more money and because “on average” the problem is not that bad we should just let these kids rot in hell. Maybe we should just kill them for being so stupid. What kind of thinking is this. Obviously those of you who got away with cheap educations did not learn a damn thing.

    1. Aw, the poor widdle college strudents have to pay back the money they borrowed? Hell, I’ve been out of college for 15 years and am still paying back my loans. Fuck off, slaver.

    2. “So because “on average” people make more money and because “on average” the problem is not that bad we should just let these kids rot in hell.”

      Hey! Where do they offer a degree in “Misdirection”? I’ll bet you aced the program!
      BTW, get lost.

    3. we should just let these kids rot in hell. Maybe we should just kill them for being so stupid.

      “College students/graduates should be responsible for their own economic decisions” =/= “they should rot in hell” or “we should kill them.”

      Try again.

    4. Paying off a debt you voluntarily entered into, and a subsidized debt at that where someone else was forced to pay part of the interests, is not “rotting in hell”.

  36. Obviously those of you who got away with cheap educations did not learn a damn thing.

    Which still makes us better off than those who got expensive educations and didn’t learn a damn thing.

    So, there’s that.

    So because “on average” people make more money and because “on average” the problem is not that bad we should just let these kids rot in hell.

    No, we should let them rot in hell because they’re adults, and were adults when they ran up the debt.

    1. So because “on average” people make more money and because “on average” the problem is not that bad we should just let these kids rot in hell.

      Results may vary

      1. #Occupy Portland Leader Forced to Lecture Minions About Pi$$ing on Banks (Video)

        Hard to imagine any Fortune 500 companies not clawing savagely at one another in their mad rush to hire these mental colossi to five- or six-figure salaries, isn’t it?

  37. ‘ll graduate with maybe 22K in student debt,

    Only 22k??? How did you afford the bare necessities in life, like an iPad, new wardrobes every year, going clubbing every night…

    When I was in college (early aughts), I remember kids going on spending sprees right after receiving their loan disbursements, it was disgusting.

    1. Good God, it’s horrible! I have to use a $300 notebook instead of a Mac, and, this is so embarassing, I usually take notes with a pen and notebook during lecture!

  38. Ok, how about this: Put together a set of rigorous standardized accreditation tests for various degrees, and let OWS-types with student loan problems take them. If they fail the test, they lose their degree, but can reclaim their tuition from the university in order to pay off the loans for the education it failed to provide.

    People with total bullshit degrees (basically, anything that can’t be objectively assessed through a knowledge test) could skip straight to the part where they return their degree for a refund.

  39. It’s not that hard. Either get a job, or fuck someone that has a job. How hard is that?

  40. “Fuck off, slaver.”

    People often use that partly for comic value when addressing trolls or liberals, but honestly, I can’t think of a better, shorter, more direct way to reply to these sorts of people — because what they’re advocating is enslavement of others in benefit to them

    Fuck off, slavers

    1. I’m pretty sure that’s not used sarcastically in these threads.

  41. Honestly, I have more in student loan debt than most of these protesters, and I’m not really that worried. Why? Because I got my MA in Applied Economics. So long as the payments don’t get me in the first two or three years, I’m basically home free.

  42. There’s absolutely no reason to talk about blanket student loan forgiveness.

    All we need to do is:

    1. Stop issuing new guarantees.

    2. Make the existing loans dischargeable in bankruptcy again.

    The system would wind itself down after a few years.

    Insolvent people would declare bankruptcy and get out from under their student loans. Their punishment would be the credit impact of a bankruptcy filing, which isn’t negligible.

    The Congress’ punishment for creating the entire student loan system would be that they’d have to pay the guarantees off to lenders on the discharged loans. That was always the obvious risk they incurred when they passed this damn program in the first place decades ago, and like all economic risks there was no real way to escape it long term. Let that chicken come home to roost and be done with it.

    The higher education bubble will also burst, as soon as the new loan spigot is turned off, but that’s a POSITIVE as far as I’m concerned.

  43. If this is your logic then no one should receive bailouts, ever. Your first claim that “These loans are voluntary” would apply to every failed business in America, including wall-street, banks, and not to mention the daily debt the US accrues on a daily basis that’s -not from student loans-. Your ability to reason is severely flawed as you have clearly proven to lack basic business and economic reasoning.

    1. If this is your logic then no one should receive bailouts, ever.

      Yes. Congratulations, you can understand simple concepts.

      1. I SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY ACTIONS A BLOO BLOO BLOO!!!

        1. “GimmeGimmeGimme MINEMINEMINEMINEMIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNE — !!!

    2. “Your first claim that “These loans are voluntary” would apply to every failed business in America, including wall-street, banks, and not to mention the daily debt the US accrues on a daily basis”

      Yes, and?

    3. Your first claim that “These loans are voluntary” would apply to every failed business in America, including wall-street, banks, and not to mention the daily debt the US accrues on a daily basis that’s -not from student loans-.

      When did failed small businesses start getting bailed out from their loans?

      Your ability to reason is severely flawed as you have clearly proven to lack basic business and economic reasoning.

      This has got to be a joke. You’re demonstrating all the reasoning skills of a kindergartner on their first day of school.


    4. If this is your logic then no one should receive bailouts, ever.

      Well, yes. Not been around here long, have you?

    1. Oops, sugarfreed. Try this.

      1. Meh. I’m still trying to get dicktits approved.

        NSFW.

  44. This is like the worst chat room ever.

  45. This is like the worst chat room ever.

    1. Shut your whore mouth rectal

      1. Camping here all weekend, heller?
        See you at the General Assembly?

  46. Your ability to reason is severely flawed as you have clearly proven to lack basic business and economic reasoning.

    You’ve got me; I flunked Regulatory Capture 101.

  47. It’s some pretty extraordinary rent-seeking when you get a highly subsidized student loan from the government, at interest rates much lower than any commercial bank would lend to such poor risks without some government subsidies — and the recipients of this largesse complain about having to repay these loans, and want them to be discharged.

    P.S. I paid off all my student loans, and my wife’s student loans, a long time ago.

  48. While I don’t condone violence, I recently read the way to clear out the ‘occupants’ is to threaten them with job applications.
    The ones not threatened could fill them out and pay off the loans.

    1. “WORK — ?!?”

  49. Shouldn’t students be able to contract whether they want loans dischargable in bankruptcy? If you impose dischargability, you basically eliminate the ability of the poor to borrow w/o government help.

    1. “Shouldn’t students be able to contract whether they want loans dischargable in bankruptcy?”

      Too easy to game the system; graduate, have no job, declared bankruptcy, presto!

      1. So lenders demand a cosigner who’s less likely to default or demand collateral that may or may not cover the cost of the loan. And they charge 15% interest. Or they don’t lend at all.

        What I should have said is: students and lenders should be able to contract whether or not loans will be dischargeable.

      2. Whatever happened to the idea that defaulting on a loan or declaring bankruptcy was a great personal failing and dishonor?

        1. It took the last flight out with morals and self-control.

  50. Your weekend nutpunch.

    http://www.whotv.com/news/who-…..9621.story

    Matthew Spaulding says he and his family were terrorized at their own home by police who slammed his grandmother to the ground and shot his dogs– missing his head by less than an inch. “Told us to get on the ground. I got on the ground they put me in handcuffs,” Spaulding recalls, “Then they threw my dad to the ground and my dog Sadie was right here sniffing my head. She was next to me. They shot her. The blood got on my face and then she took off running behind me and they shot her like three more times.”

    Perry Police are not commenting. And they’re refusing to turn over any paperwork or reports about the incident saying it’s part of an ongoing investigation. But we were able to get copies of the search warrants. One warrant shows police were looking for any kind of legal or illegal drugs. The other shows police were looking for a stolen X-Box video game system. No drugs and no stolen games were found–and no one was arrested.

    1. I would be really seriously tempted to murder someone who shot my dogs like that. Jesus, that’s fucking bullshit.

    2. One warrant shows police were looking for any kind of legal or illegal drugs

      Legal drugs are illegal?

  51. Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

    Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

    Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.

    Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

    Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends’ houses but never has friends over to yours.

    Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.

    Being poor is living next to the freeway.

    Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.

    Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn’t mind when you ask for help.

    Being poor is off-brand toys.

    Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.

    Being poor is knowing you can’t leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.

    Being poor is hoping your kids don’t have a growth spurt.

    Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn’t have make dinner tonight because you’re not hungry anyway.

    Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

    Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.

    Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.

    Being poor is your kid’s school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.

    Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.

    Being poor is relying on people who don’t give a damn about you.

    Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.

    Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.

    Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.

    Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger’s trash.

    Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.

    Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.

    Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.

    Being poor is not taking the job because you can’t find someone you trust to watch your kids.

    Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.

    Being poor is not talking to that girl because she’ll probably just laugh at your clothes.

    Being poor is hoping you’ll be invited for dinner.

    Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.

    Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.

    Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.

    Being poor is your kid’s teacher assuming you don’t have any books in your home.

    Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.

    Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.

    Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.

    Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually stupid.

    Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually lazy.

    Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.

    Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn’t bought first.

    Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that’s two extra packages for every dollar.

    Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old.

    Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.

    Being poor is knowing you’re being judged.

    Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.

    Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.

    Being poor is deciding that it’s all right to base a relationship on shelter.

    Being poor is knowing you really shouldn’t spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.

    Being poor is hoping the register lady
    will spot you the dime.

    Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won’t listen to you beg them against doing so.

    Being poor is a cough that doesn’t go away.

    Being poor is making sure you don’t spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.

    Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.

    Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.

    Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.

    Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.

    Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.

    Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.

    Being poor is seeing how few options you have.

    Being poor is running in place.

    Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave.

    OCCUPY THE WORLD!

    1. Nobody dies of starvation in America.

      1. “Nobody dies of starvation in America.”

        Well, almost no one.

        1. TOOOOO SOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2. Why don’t you just pick up the glass on the sidewalk?

    3. Being stupid is making up silly stories.

    4. Being poor Being poor in a America.

      Also that is none of those OWS people. Being poor is not getting a college education.

    5. Strike out all the entries that talk about kids.

      Why did you have kids?

      1. Because it is her right to have kids even if she can’t afford them. What are you fluffy some kind of woman hater?

    6. “Being poor is making excuses.”

      “Being poor is feeling entitled to whatever it is you don’t have, sans any personal effort whatsoever.”

      “Being poor means reflexively and reliably voting for the Team Blue fiscal policies which made and keep me poor, from Day One.”

      There. Everything you so laboriously cut’n’pasted, summed up in the comparative brevity of three simple sentences.

      You’re welcome.

    7. Being poor makes you an asshole. Poor people are assholes who point at everything but what’s in the mirror when it’s time to find something to blame for their shitty lives.

      Being poor means as soon as you bleed someone dry, be it an agency or a family member or a friend, you curse them to anyone who’ll listen for wising up to your parasitic shit and cutting off your gravy train. Being poor means you never pay anyone back, and you instantly hate anyone who asks that you start.

      Being poor means you’ve always still got money somewhere for a broadband Internet connection and a cell phone, so you can troll and spew your maudlin bullshit on forums you’d otherwise have no interest in.

      Being poor means somebody else is always responsible…for the kids you selfishly chose to bring forth into poverty because you were too stupid and lazy to use birth control, for the fact that you can’t or won’t hold a job, for the fact that you dropped out of high school because you were just too cool for all that, for the destruction you wreak on any property you borrow or rent from others, for making the rules that you seem to think you’re the permanent exception to.

      Being poor fortunately means you’ll likely die off sooner than the rest of us, which is how nature works, because there are more than enough humans, you’re not special, and there’s therefore no reason to rescue you from your own stupidity and laziness.

      1. Being poor means you’ve always still got money somewhere for a broadband Internet connection and a cell phone, so you can troll and spew your maudlin bullshit on forums you’d otherwise have no interest in.

        Infinite ^ THIS ^.

        1. Being poor means you have access to a public library to fill out job applications for people that won’t hire you because you’re too poor to show up on the damn CREDIT CHECK people require now to see if you’re worth hiring.

      2. “Being poor makes you an asshole.”

        Nope.
        Being poor and whining about it might mean you’re an asshole, but being poor doesn’t mean so.
        Plenty of poor people don’t whine and figure out ways to be non-poor. I did and many of folks I know did.
        But when I was poor, it meant I couldn’t afford a TV if I wanted to eat which is sort of the time-adjusted gauge of priorities.

    8. This list was obviously written by someone who got comfortable not knowing the price of anything and now feel’s aggreived that they actually have to think about what they are spending.

      Spoiled, upper-middle-class brat crying because he suddenly finds out that he has to work instead of having everything handed to him on a silver platter.

    9. Dear halfwit,

      Next time, just link to the original and save precious kilobytes.

      Thank you, fuck you, bye.

  52. Being poor is also escapable. My parents did it. Their parents did it. As someone said earlier, life isn’t fair.

  53. Cry me a fecking river. Read my book, Angela’s Ashes. I can tell you what poor is.

    1. Anyone want to buy a once proud baseball franchise that I single-handedly drove into the ground?

      1. Yep, you can get far out of poverty and still show you ain’t real bright.

  54. Today I don’t have to think about those who hear “terrorist” when I speak my faith.

    Today I don’t have to think about men who don’t believe no means no.

    Today I don’t have to think about how the world is made for people who move differently than I do.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether I’m married, depending on what state I’m in.

    Today I don’t have to think about how I’m going to hail a cab past midnight.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether store security is tailing me.

    Today I don’t have to think about the look on the face of the person about to sit next to me on a plane.

    Today I don’t have to think about eyes going to my chest first.

    Today I don’t have to think about what people might think if they knew the medicines I took.

    Today I don’t have to think about getting kicked out of a mall when I kiss my beloved hello.

    Today I don’t have to think about if it’s safe to hold my beloved’s hand.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether I’m being pulled over for anything other than speeding.

    Today I don’t have to think about being classified as one of “those people.”

    Today I don’t have to think about making less than someone else for the same job at the same place.

    Today I don’t have to think about the people who stare, or the people who pretend I don’t exist.

    Today I don’t have to think about managing pain that never goes away.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether a stranger’s opinion of me would change if I showed them a picture of who I love.

    Today I don’t have to think about the chance a store salesmen will ignore me to help someone else.

    Today I don’t have to think about the people who’d consider torching my house of prayer a patriotic act.

    Today I don’t have to think about a pharmacist telling me his conscience keeps him from filling my prescription.

    Today I don’t have to think about being asked if I’m bleeding when I’m just having a bad day.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether the one drug that lets me live my life will be taken off the market.

    Today I don’t have to think about the odds of getting jumped at the bar I like to go to.

    Today I don’t have to think about “vote fraud” theater showing up at my poll station.

    Today I don’t have to think about turning on the news to see people planning to burn my holy book.

    Today I don’t have to think about others demanding I apologize for hateful people who have nothing to do with me.

    Today I don’t have to think about my child being seen as a detriment to my career.

    Today I don’t have to think about the irony of people thinking I’m lucky because I can park close to the door.

    Today I don’t have to think about memories of being bullied in high school.

    Today I don’t have to think about being told to relax, it was just a joke.

    Today I don’t have to think about whether someone thinks I’m in this country illegally.

    Today I don’t have to think about those who believe that freedom of religion ends with mine.

    Today I don’t have to think about how a half-starved 23-year-old being a cultural ideal affects my life.

    Today I don’t have to think about how much my life is circumscribed by my body.

    Today I don’t have to think about people wanting me cured of loving who I love.

    Today I don’t have to think about those who view me an unfit parent because of who I love.

    Today I don’t have to think about being told my kind don’t assimilate.

    Today I don’t have to think about people blind to the intolerance of their belief lecturing me about my own.

    Today I don’t have to think about my body as a political football.

    Today I don’t have to think about how much my own needs wear on those I love.

    Today I don’t have to think about explaining to others “what happened to me.”

    Today I don’t have to think about politicians saying bigoted things about me to win votes.

    Today I don’t have to think about those worried that one day people like me will be the majority.

    Today I don’t have to think about someone using the name of my religion as a slur.

    Today I don’t have to think about so many of the words for me controlling my own life being negatives.

    Today I don’t have to think about still not being equal.

    Today I don’t have to think about what it takes to keep going.

    Today I don’t have to think about how much I still have to hide.

    Today I don’t have to think about how much prejudice keeps hold.

    Today I don’t have to think about how I’m meant to be grateful that people tolerate my kind.

    Today I don’t have to think about all the things I don’t have to think about.

    But today I will.

    1. Everythin’,
      everythin’,
      everythin’s gonna be
      alright this mornin’
      Ooh yeah, whoaw
      Now when I was a
      young boy, at the age
      of five
      My mother said I was,
      gonna be the greatest
      man alive
      But now I’m a man, way past 21
      Want you to believe me baby,
      I had lot’s of fun
      I’m a man
      I spell mmm, aaa child, nnn
      That represents man
      No B, O child, Y
      That mean mannish boy
      I’m a man
      I’m a full grown man
      I’m a man
      I’m a natural born lovers man
      I’m a man
      I’m a rollin’ stone
      I’m a man
      I’m a hoochie coochie man

      Sittin’ on the outside,
      just me and my mate
      You know I’m made to
      move you honey,
      come up two hours late
      Wasn’t that a man
      I spell mmm, aaa child, nnn
      That represents man
      No B, O child, Y
      That mean mannish boy
      I’m a man
      I’m a full grown man
      Man
      I’m a natural born lovers man
      Man
      I’m a rollin’ stone
      Man-child
      I’m a hoochie coochie man
      The line I shoot will never miss
      When I make love to a woman,
      [ Lyrics provided by http://www.mp3lyrics.org ]
      she can’t resist
      I think I go down,
      to old Kansas Stew
      I’m gonna bring back
      my second cousin,
      that little Johnny Cocheroo
      All you little girls,
      sittin’out at that line
      I can make love to you woman,
      in five minutes time
      Ain’t that a man
      I spell mmm, aaa child, nnn
      That represents man
      No B, O child, Y
      That mean mannish boy
      Man
      I’m a full grown man
      Man
      I’m a natural born lovers man
      Man
      I’m a rollin’ stone
      I’m a man-child
      I’m a hoochie coochie man
      well, well, well, well
      hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry
      Don’t hurt me, don’t
      hurt me child
      don’t hurt me, don’t
      hurt, don’t hurt me
      child
      well, well, well, well

      Yeah

        1. Well…
          It was a drummer he beat.

          1. So it wasn’t violence, it was a critique?

    2. “Today I will spam an internet message board, and then spend the rest of the day basking in my own smug, self-congratulatory musk of righteousness.”

    3. “Today I don’t have to think about how much my life is circumscribed by my body.”

      Self-pity is all the rage among adolescents.
      Hint: Grow up.

    4. This shit up here ^

      I didn’t read it LOL

    5. Cool story, bro.

  55. Today I can read this drivel but I won’t because I have reasonable.

    1. + arctan(x)

      1. This is a good one, too… I’m going to have to get caught up watching this Whittle fellow…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..er&list=UL

        1. Oh yeah, Whittle’s great. Been reading/watching him for years. He has published a compendium of his essays; it is entitled “Silent America.” Dig it. Be warned, he’s a conservative and will probably give the rabid libertarians here the vapors. But a lot of us not so rabid ones (will) share a lot of his eloquently presented views, as he does ours.

          1. I figured he was a con, but I’ll just dig on the stuff I agree with.

            Never heard of him until lately. I need to stop getting out and spend more time online.

  56. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=679SIBMO_VA

    Scorsese and Robertson cut this out and Muddy Waters doing Calidonia and included Neil fucking Diamond. WTF?

  57. RETURN OF THE CONFEDERACY OR THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN

    Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again

    [Avlon Vs Triathlon]

    Now, we have written in opposition against John Avlon before and we will in all likely hood do so again, Again, and AGAIN. And, who is John Avlon, he is a young writer for (www.TheDailyBeast.Com), and the author of several books to his own credit [Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America, and Independent Nation; How Centrists Can Change American Politics], having worked his way up in the New York Sun, from columnist to associate editor, which is no small achievement on his part. And, from his picture taken in New York City of course, one knows that John is a hard-core YANKEE, and from his writing we find him to be a bomb throwing Yankee, using derogatory names/ terms/ and labels to describe those with own he does not agree [Wingnuts, Lunatic Fringe, Hijacking], John is a Bill Ayers type writer quote, [I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.], unquote, John sells books and makes a living stirring up controversy, others have done it before John and others will in the future, but in all fairness such is the way of life, everyone does it, and then denies having done it, and this is what John does, and when his writing leads as they will to a violent counter re-action, they disclaim any fault but hide behind the idea that we were just shedding like on those[Wingnut, Lunatic Fringe, Anti-Americans Hijacking our Union]. We could without doubt go back into the history just prior to the War of Secession and find another two facing off in print, in very much the same manner, with opposite views, on this very subject.

    [Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again]

    Now, John takes the position as most Yankee’s do that some how the Confederacy when away, just as many taught that after the defeat of Nazis Germany that it would never return, or that after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that Communism was dead, and all these things have proven not to be the case. Now, all country and western fans, know of Charlie Daniels, or Hank Williams Jr. and their songs and each has sung The South Shall Rise Again, but the boys aren’t the only one’s if one looks up the phrase on the old computer, one will find it is used so often its more of a rising battle cry than just a phrase. John Avlon is a Yankee, has always been a Yankee, and always will be a Yankee, and can never understand, and can’t see beyond his thinly veiled HATE of the South, that Yankee’s and Confederates will never see eye to eye, and can never be one people. John fails to see the end of Empire, clinging to the idea that the Persians were wrong that [This Too Shall End], and with the end of Empire comes its total collapse, and its division, and once again we will point to facture points on the North American Continent;

    [The Consequences of Empire in Decline]

    Now, the whole great social experimentation started in [1776] was never going to work anyway, as was said on [1] One episode of Inspector Lewis All Men Are Created Equal and how did that work out for you, to an American Tourist, one can only guess how this is going to work out as the [18th] Century United States of America Social experiment comes too a close, as a [21st] Century American-Israeli Empire, as an intellectually, financially, morally bankrupt, militarily weak, ungovernable, unfixable, unsustainable, Empire, governed by of an oligarchy of jaded pros, permanent residents locked in the Beltway whose only movement is from Pennsylvania Avenue, when they’re in office, to [K] Street, when they’re out — & back. We would suggest, much as the Union of South Africa, in blood-shed, and the breaking up forming New Republic and a new map of the North American Continent;

    * The Republic of Alaska

    * America [The Confederate States/The United States]

    * The Republic of California

    * Republic of Cascadia” [Northwestern separatists envision a “Republic of Cascadia” carved out of Oregon, Washington and the Canadian province of British Columbia.]

    * The Republic of Hawaii

    * The Republic of Texas

    * The Republic of Vermont carved out of [The New York Adirondacks, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, New Hampshire.]

    [History and experience are hard teachers]

    Now, we can’t hold much against John Avlon, it was all pretty much his up bringing, and his schooling that made him the individual he is at this moment in time, a person of static think, [That Will Never Happen], until the day comes along that it does in fact happen and smacks him in the face , viewing the world thru a straw, looking at the lone tree, instead of the forest, showing a lack of history, and life experience beyond New York City, and NO! New York City is not a microcosm, of the world, that place does not exits, any more that the Empire is a melting pot, or All Men Are Created Equal With Certain Unalienable Rights. There are [350M] Three-Hundred and Fifty Million human being on the North American Continent, divided into [8] eight parts, John would argue [50] Fifty States not including the Territories, and the argument would just go round and round, only proving the width and breath of the divide that exists between the [8] regions of the North American Continent but their peoples. Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again, John would say it will NEVER! Happen, we content that one should beware of using the term Never. Another writer we can’t remember who once wrote that history, and experience are hard teacher’s, and my God what hard teachers.

    HERCULE TRIAHLON SAVINIEN

  58. RETURN OF THE CONFEDERACY OR THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN

    Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again

    [Avlon Vs Triathlon]

    Now, we have written in opposition against John Avlon before and we will in all likely hood do so again, Again, and AGAIN. And, who is John Avlon, he is a young writer for (www.TheDailyBeast.Com), and the author of several books to his own credit [Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America, and Independent Nation; How Centrists Can Change American Politics], having worked his way up in the New York Sun, from columnist to associate editor, which is no small achievement on his part. And, from his picture taken in New York City of course, one knows that John is a hard-core YANKEE, and from his writing we find him to be a bomb throwing Yankee, using derogatory names/ terms/ and labels to describe those with own he does not agree [Wingnuts, Lunatic Fringe, Hijacking], John is a Bill Ayers type writer quote, [I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.], unquote, John sells books and makes a living stirring up controversy, others have done it before John and others will in the future, but in all fairness such is the way of life, everyone does it, and then denies having done it, and this is what John does, and when his writing leads as they will to a violent counter re-action, they disclaim any fault but hide behind the idea that we were just shedding like on those[Wingnut, Lunatic Fringe, Anti-Americans Hijacking our Union]. We could without doubt go back into the history just prior to the War of Secession and find another two facing off in print, in very much the same manner, with opposite views, on this very subject.

    [Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again]

    Now, John takes the position as most Yankee’s do that some how the Confederacy when away, just as many taught that after the defeat of Nazis Germany that it would never return, or that after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that Communism was dead, and all these things have proven not to be the case. Now, all country and western fans, know of Charlie Daniels, or Hank Williams Jr. and their songs and each has sung The South Shall Rise Again, but the boys aren’t the only one’s if one looks up the phrase on the old computer, one will find it is used so often its more of a rising battle cry than just a phrase. John Avlon is a Yankee, has always been a Yankee, and always will be a Yankee, and can never understand, and can’t see beyond his thinly veiled HATE of the South, that Yankee’s and Confederates will never see eye to eye, and can never be one people. John fails to see the end of Empire, clinging to the idea that the Persians were wrong that [This Too Shall End], and with the end of Empire comes its total collapse, and its division, and once again we will point to facture points on the North American Continent;

    [The Consequences of Empire in Decline]

    Now, the whole great social experimentation started in [1776] was never going to work anyway, as was said on [1] One episode of Inspector Lewis All Men Are Created Equal and how did that work out for you, to an American Tourist, one can only guess how this is going to work out as the [18th] Century United States of America Social experiment comes too a close, as a [21st] Century American-Israeli Empire, as an intellectually, financially, morally bankrupt, militarily weak, ungovernable, unfixable, unsustainable, Empire, governed by of an oligarchy of jaded pros, permanent residents locked in the Beltway whose only movement is from Pennsylvania Avenue, when they’re in office, to [K] Street, when they’re out — & back. We would suggest, much as the Union of South Africa, in blood-shed, and the breaking up forming New Republic and a new map of the North American Continent;

    * The Republic of Alaska

    * America [The Confederate States/The United States]

    * The Republic of California

    * Republic of Cascadia” [Northwestern separatists envision a “Republic of Cascadia” carved out of Oregon, Washington and the Canadian province of British Columbia.]

    * The Republic of Hawaii

    * The Republic of Texas

    * The Republic of Vermont carved out of [The New York Adirondacks, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, New Hampshire.]

    [History and experience are hard teachers]

    Now, we can’t hold much against John Avlon, it was all pretty much his up bringing, and his schooling that made him the individual he is at this moment in time, a person of static think, [That Will Never Happen], until the day comes along that it does in fact happen and smacks him in the face , viewing the world thru a straw, looking at the lone tree, instead of the forest, showing a lack of history, and life experience beyond New York City, and NO! New York City is not a microcosm, of the world, that place does not exits, any more that the Empire is a melting pot, or All Men Are Created Equal With Certain Unalienable Rights. There are [350M] Three-Hundred and Fifty Million human being on the North American Continent, divided into [8] eight parts, John would argue [50] Fifty States not including the Territories, and the argument would just go round and round, only proving the width and breath of the divide that exists between the [8] regions of the North American Continent but their peoples. Return of the Confederacy Or The South Shall Rise Again, John would say it will NEVER! Happen, we content that one should beware of using the term Never. Another writer we can’t remember who once wrote that history, and experience are hard teacher’s, and my God what hard teachers.

  59. OK, I just bought an original “Sticky Fingers”.

    7/8 quality. Sleeve and jacket in mint condition.

    I got home, and the fucking power is out. Goddamn SoCal Edison. Cocksuckers.

      1. No thanks.

        I would like for Lord Humungus to come on here because I just bought a new (old) console stereo with record player and I need to ask him some questions.

        You, on the other hand, can fuck off.

        1. Oh, Lord Humungus is an audiophile? I gotta talk to him about recording myself. I have a large collection of jazz (mostly big band and dixieland) I inherited from my grandfather. I’ve had an absolutely wonderful time recording this stuff and porting it to my iPod so I can listen to it in the car. Fantastic stuff, BUT it’s hilarious to me that this 20s/30s/40s jazz was “new-fangled noise” to my grandfather’s parents’ generation. The delicious part is I have now have a recording of Skitch Henderson and Woody Herman talking about seeing “The Mothers of Invention” play in New York and how that was just a lot of new-fangled noise.

          1. I’m pretty sure he used to have a blog about his stereo setup.

            Any other audiophiles out there want to give me some advice?

            1. Get into the 21st century, Grandpa.

            2. I can tell you that if you’re planning on re-mastering stuff from vinyl, you should get a good turntable and a good preamp. You can only clean up so much digitally, and the better the analog signal the better your recordings will be. Also, I have a record vacuum. I thought that was snake oil for the longest time, but after getting the thing I can’t believe how well it cleans the crud out of a vinyl album. I put a few 25 second recordings on my blog with and without the vacuumingg and it makes a big difference.

    1. OK, I just bought an original “Sticky Fingers”.

      I assume by “original” you mean vinyl. When the album originally came out there was a huge number of returns due to the zipper on the album cover causing dimples in the records.

      … “Tubes and vinyl rule” Hobbit

      1. When the album originally came out there was a huge number of returns due to the zipper on the album cover causing dimples in the records.

        I returned mine cause, well, the stones always bored me…evenwhen I was in elementary school.

  60. In a private lending market, you would expect lenders to make decisions about whom to lend to and what interest rates to charge. And in return, you would expect those lenders to bear the risks of borrowers defaulting. None of that happens in the market for guaranteed student loans. Instead, the federal government establishes who can qualify for these loans, what interest rates they will pay, and what interest rates the lenders will receive. And the government guarantees the lenders against almost all default risks.

    In short, the government already controls all of the most important aspects of this part of the student loan business. The legislation just takes this a step further and cuts back on the role of private firms in the origination of these loans

    Why is this even a story?

    1. Are you serious?

    2. Are you serious?

    3. Are you serious?

    4. Nancy Pelosi wants to know, “Are you serious?”

  61. You what is pathetic?

    Leftists who can’t think of any way to argue with libertarians on a rational basis, so they instead choose to spam their message boards with nonsensical bullshit.

    It’s like a gang of three year olds voting to collectively poop on the class nerd.
    Majority rules!

    1. Hazel, you do realize Leftists are busy collectively pooping at their OWS protest sites; IOW, most of the H&R ‘Leftists’ are___________ (fill in the blank)

    2. It is impossible to debate someone whose entire position is based on envy. It is essentially the same as arguing with an infant.

      1. That’s completely what this thread is. A group of infants banging on drums and going “la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la” with their fingers in their ears because they want to prevent anyone from saying anything they don’t want to heard. OWS in a nutshell.

        1. I am a 27 year old with a political science degree and more student debt than I would like to admit. But it was my choice to accept that debt and that degree. So I work six to seven days a week to pay for it. I don’t expect anyone to bail me out.

    3. I agree…I rarely argue with liberals who don’t resort to screaming and/or shouting after 5 mintues.

      1. That’s not to say that Conservatives are not-guilty. But liberals def scream and shout a lot more.

        1. I don’t mind yelling if there is a rational point here and there – it can be entertaining. But with lefties their whole argument boils down to “It’s not fair.”

          If the poorest person in a America was a millionaire and the richest person was a trillionaire (and not the result of inflation), the envious leftie would still complain. It has nothing to do with “the poor” and everything to do with envy.

          1. Or just infantile frustration with not having mommy government give them everything they need.

            They’ll be drawing protest signs on the sidewalks with their own poop next.

          2. If everyone had access to basic needs, which is a non-arbitrary cost, liberals wouldn’t have much to complain about. The economy is not fair by any stretch, but you want to pretend that it is when convenient, and horribly disfigured when that’s convenient. By convenient, I mean for the interests of the wealthy. You probably need to accuse liberals of having an emotional hangup so you feel less bad about yours: utter slavishness.

            1. “If everyone had access to basic needs,..”

              Shithead, outside of food and water, you can’t define “needs” as separate from “wants”.

              1. I would add heat, during lethally cold weather. And access to basic emergency healthcare.

                1. “I would add heat, during lethally cold weather.”
                  Only one season; by next year, you’d better be where it’s warmer before you whine.

                  “And access to basic emergency healthcare.”
                  Dunno. If it were a real need, humanity was in deep trouble for most of its existence.

              2. You seem to think you can define them.

                Wouldn’t you rather err on the side of giving the poor too much than not enough? You guys are consistent in your thinking that it’s better to err on the side of giving handouts to the rich. Since they deserve it, you know.

                1. Tony|11.20.11 @ 7:08PM|#
                  “You seem to think you can define them.”

                  Since shithead can’t read, we’ll laugh at your stupidity, shithead.

            2. Problem is there are large numbers of people who will lose all motivation to do anything above the minimum necessary to stay alive if you provide for all of their basic needs.

              I’ve seen it. I know these people. Lots of them around me.

              The sad reality is that a lot of people NEED to experience real poverty in order to discover how to get off their asses and work. I’ve seen people go through it. Expect everything to be easy, glide on the college degree for a couple of years, and then lose their job and slide into unemployment, then get to a breakign point where they decide that they aren’t going to accept poverty and turn around and come back out of it with an actual work ethic.

              1. So as a small-government type you want government to take on the role of moral busybody enforcing a specifically christian-derived ethic. I just fail to see why you can’t turn that strict daddy mentality to anyone but the destitute.

                And speaking of parenting, how do children factor in? Should society offer them the same tough love you think it should offer their parents?

                1. Tony|11.20.11 @ 7:13PM|#
                  “So as a small-government type you want government to take on the role of moral busybody enforcing a specifically christian-derived ethic.”

                  Since shithead can’t read, we’ll laugh at your stupidity, shithead.

                2. BTW, shithead:
                  “christian-derived”
                  Bull
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  shit.

                3. No, Tony, I simply want the government to do *nothing*.

                  It is reality that teaches people lessons. The government has no part in it.

      2. I try to make an honest effort to talk to the ones who don’t scream and shout. You have to reinforce positive behavior somehow.

        1. I usually have a good radar for a person’s politics when I meet them. If I figure they are a leftie or a neo-con I usually let them do most of the talking and gently point out the contradictions in their positions without sticking their faces in it. Yelling just closes minds and is pointless, unless I want to entertain myself.

  62. OT:

    http://io9.com/5860981/in-esca…..s-on-ceres

    New libertarian comic coming out, in a similar vein as Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

    In Escape from Terra’s future, Earth is completely ruled by the United World government, a vast nanny state that requires citizens to wear helmets in the shower while corrupt government officials line their pockets with citizen taxes.

    And of course, the first comment on i09 is: “So Somalia in space?”

    They know libertarianism all too well…

    (also why the fuck am I STILL reading Gawker network, all it does is enrage-ify me.

    1. Ridiculous. I’m sure that in a society that advanced, people will just live in padded cocoons and eat their meals intravenously, and remotely control robotic shells to do any physical work.

  63. First, your data based upon the earnings of graduates over time is based upon OLD 1980’s data, whereby the people, who took out the loans: (a) had not experienced a structural (NOT CYCLICAL) change in the economy as a result of a preceding 2 decades rise of the Asian and 3rd world economies, (b)those people had not paid tuition that had increased well past the rate of inflation for the prior 2 decades, (c) and those people had not been lied to with bogus employment figures put out and reported by the school and the US News & World Report in an attempt to fraudulently capture yet more students and tuition dollars.

    Second, even if there is no bailout, I JUST LOVE the fact that it will be IMPOSSIBLE for someone to pay back those many thousands of dollars in loans that so many people owe in the current job market. As a result, they will end up deferring their loans, defaulting on them, or going into a subsidized Income Based Repayment Program, which IN SUM will insure that none of the money gets paid back.

    What you fail to see is that most people aren’t refusing to pay back their loans; THE REALITY IS THAT THEY CAN’T. And you are shortsighted and, yes, STUPID, to have been completely ignorant of the unemployment rate, LOW WAGES, and HIGH DEBT BURDENS that now plague all student loan borrowers. You would have to be braindead to not realize how those factors are affecting one’s ability to pay back their loans.

    But the IBR programs with loan FORGIVENESS are already a bailout, but I guess you didn’t know that.

    1. “You would have to be braindead to not realize how those factors are affecting one’s ability to pay back their loans.”

      Tough.
      You borrowed the money, you pay it back.

    2. Would you support limiting the amount people can borrow for student loans according to expected income after graduation?

      Why not let a bank do the financial analysis and only lend money to people who are expected to pay it back?

      Why give the same amount of money to a humanities major that you give to a computer scientist?

      If we just stop lending to humanities majors, or anyone else taking a low-employment-rate major, would you accept that?

  64. Student’s are encouraged to continue their education and the only way to do so is to borrow money from a bank or the government. It is difficult to find a job with a degree let alone without a degree so we are forced to take these loans to further our education just to be able to survive and provide for our families!

    Our government bails out big companies like GM when they (GM) are the one’s that have no reason to be in the situation that they were in! Students are much different than a large corporation and deserve this reduction more than any company out there.

    Education is expensive and I am not suggesting relieving all the student loan debt but a portion would be helpful. New graduates are not going to be putting any money into our economy making purchases if they are having to pay $500 student loan payments on top of their necessary living requirements.

    On top of all that, who finds a job within 6 months of graduation in this economy? I spent two years after completing my Bachelor’s degree looking for a job and found nothing but suggestions of continuing for my Master’s degree! More student loan debt!!!

    1. “Students are much different than a large corporation and deserve this reduction more than any company out there.”

      And neither one should get bailed-out. You borrowed money, pay it back.

      1. And since “bailout out” students and corporations are morally equivalent, you’ll take barring the former as a half win.

      2. And since “bailout out” students and corporations are morally equivalent, you’ll take barring the former as a half win.

        1. Tony|11.20.11 @ 7:14PM|#
          “And since “bailout out” students and corporations are morally equivalent, you’ll take barring the former as a half win.”

          And since shithead can’t read we’ll laugh at your stupidity, shithead.

          1. There goes Tony again, equating spending money with morality.

        2. The Tony solution: since you’ve already dug yourself into a hole, best keep digging ’til you reach the other side of the planet.

    2. There wasn’t a single job to be had for two years? You must be singularly unemployable.

    3. What is your field?
      Employment rates vary by major. Your probability of finding a job can be very high if you took computer science or engineering. Maybe not so high if you took clinical psychology.

      1. “What is your field?”

        [Crickets chirping]

    4. Oh Jesus, where to begin…

      Student’s are encouraged to continue their education and the only way to do so is to borrow money from a bank or the government.

      No, students are brainwashed into believing that a college degree is their golden ticket to happiness, and hence see no issue taking out tens of thousands in non-dischargeable debt to get it. When you actually believe there’s no risk, you do stupid shit like this.

      It is difficult to find a job with a degree let alone without a degree so we are forced to take these loans to further our education just to be able to survive and provide for our families!

      Bullshit–you are NOT forced to take out a damn penny in debt, and furthermore, maybe you should have thought about things like birth control if you weren’t prepared to both go to school and raise a family.

      Our government bails out big companies like GM when they (GM) are the one’s that have no reason to be in the situation that they were in! Students are much different than a large corporation and deserve this reduction more than any company out there.

      Classic question-begging. Personally, I believe neither of you deserve anything. What the fuck did you do to earn it?

      Education is expensive and I am not suggesting relieving all the student loan debt but a portion would be helpful. New graduates are not going to be putting any money into our economy making purchases if they are having to pay $500 student loan payments on top of their necessary living requirements.

      Then write your Congressmen and tell them to make student loan debt non-dischargeable. When the colleges jack up your tuition by 10% every year, raise hell with the administrators and board, instead of bending over and taking it up the tailpipe like you always do.

      On top of all that, who finds a job within 6 months of graduation in this economy? I spent two years after completing my Bachelor’s degree looking for a job and found nothing but suggestions of continuing for my Master’s degree! More student loan debt!!!

      Anyone back in the mid-2000s that bothered to look could see that the economy was in a credit bubble that could pop at any time. You should have planned ahead for what might happen in case the economy did take a shit, instead of “following your dreams.”

    5. Student’s are encouraged to continue their education and the only way to do so is to borrow money from a bank or the government.

      New graduates are not going to be putting any money into our economy making purchases if they are having to pay $500 student loan payments

      The only way? In 2003 I found an affordable college, started there, and only paid $15,000 tuition over all four years, an average of $333 a month (I took one quarter off). And I was pretty happy with my college. It’s not the best in the state, but it’s middle-of-the-road. Not like it matters anyway, because even the worst in the state sounds better to me than $500 loan payments. Maybe all of these students you’re talking about should also give a whirl to the crazy concept of only paying for what they can afford.

  65. Dude seems to know waht the deal is, thats for sure.

    http://www.true-anon.au.tc

  66. Education is expensive and I am not suggesting relieving all the student loan debt but a portion would be helpful. New graduates are not going to be putting any money into our economy making purchases if they are having to pay $500 student loan payments on top of their necessary living requirements.

    1. Drat, foiled again! I’ve been arguing with a bot…

    2. “necessary living requirements.”

      1) No booze or beer, dope or smokes.
      2) No dates, movies, or eating out.
      3) 400 sq. ft. of living space in the cheapest part of town.
      4) $6/meal (and I’m being generous).
      5) Basic internet access, $500 computer.
      6) Mass transit; no car, motorcycle or bike.
      7) Heat limited to 50*F max.
      8) No TV, no cable or satellite.
      9) Health insurance required (since I have to pay for it if you don’t)
      10) No cell phone; poverty land-line rates.
      11) No *charges* on the credit card; pay it off every month.
      12) Not one Starbucks ‘coffee’ charge.
      Are we getting close to “necessary living requirements”? If we are, we might have something to discuss.

  67. Student loans forgiveness could be considered an investment for the country, with clear benefits to the nation, similarly to the GI Bill. Bailing out wall street is FRAUD.

  68. The heck. We’re bailing out banks, car companies, why not kids? And no I am not an occupationist I think they should have cleared out those ‘camps’ with fire hoses. But if there is something we are going to need going forward it is kids, maybe even more than we will need car executives that only know how to lose money.

  69. I agree that no student loan bailout is necessary. However, student loans should be dischargable in bankrupcy–just like every other form of consumer debt. That way, students who get in over their heads can declare bankruptcy, face the consequences, and eventually get back on their feet.

  70. Student loan bailout? Not a chance. Allow for discharge in bankruptcy, so these things are priced correctly? Yes yes YES!

    If actions have consequences for students, they should also have consequences for loans officers. As in, “You lent $30k to a 19th century French Lit major???? WTF were you thinking?”

  71. Figured that the comment section was too little so here’s a FULL response to your article (reasons to forgive student loans)

    Thanks

  72. If 18 yr old kids are too stupid to understand their loan, they shouldn’t be able to vote.

  73. You all forget that not all people having to take out student loans are 18 years of age or older.

    Many students try to finish high school early or were placed into a grade before they reached the normal age for the grade. (I happened to enter kindergarten when i was 4 because of where my birthday lies, and entered college almost a month before I turned 18.)

    It is perfectly legal for 16 and 17 year olds to sign their name to a loan document they don’t understand without parental involvement. And good luck trying to have someone explain it to you when they’re telling you that if you don’t sign, then you’ll have to pack your things and go back home.

    And even at 18, these kids are just out of high school. Someone should be available to educate them on exactly what they’re getting into. There’s no class on “how the world works” in high school.

  74. It’s really a nice and helpful piece of info. I am glad that you shared this useful information with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thanks for sharing.

  75. Yeah, #1 and #2 are not true. They’re presented as facts but in reality are just opinions. Not sure and don’t care about #3.

  76. Well, very good post with informative information. I really appreciate the fact that you approach these topics from a stand point of knowledge and information.

  77. They should be asked how much they pay a month on things like their iPhone plan, eating out and binge drinking. If it totals more than their student loan payment, they can go f*ck themselves. If that guy in the video has money to stuff his face with pizza, he has money to pay his damn bills.

  78. Well,it’s a difficult question but I can say that I share the author’s opinion.No one force people to take out student loans and these decisions are voluntary.I understand that some young people can not afford to avoid taking out student loans because their parents didn’t save money for thir education.But I think that it’s not right to make debt and then to ask to forgive this debt.I do not believe that the US government can forgive $ 1 trillion debt, it’s an exteremely huge figure.So I think that before borrowing money people should be more responsible and think well if they will be able to pay off their debt.The problem is that lots of people taking out student loans used to think that in future the miracle will come and help them to pay off the loan. But it’s a real life where miracles happen quite seldom. They can rely only on themselves and realize all the responsibility of paying off the debt.

  79. I think you are right about not necessarily encouraging your kids to go to college. No one should ever borrow huge amounts of money to do that, based on some assumption of a guaranteed job when they get out. As you learned, no such guarantee ever existed, and of course the loans are still owed, just as it would be if you had borrowed and spent it for any other purpose. The most qualified and hardworking students generally pay nothing to go to college; the highest-achieving graduate students make money while in graduate school. Everyone else is taking a huge chance if they aren’t working to that standard.

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