NASA Freaks Out Little Old Lady, Claims Ownership of Every Single Speck of Moon Dust
Speaking of making money on the moon: You can't. Ever. So don't even think about it, granny.
The target [of a sting by NASA to recover a tiny speck of moon dust], Joann Davis, a grandmother who says she was trying to raise money for her sick son, asserts the lunar material was rightfully hers, having been given to her space-engineer husband by Neil Armstrong in the 1970s….
When officers in flak vests took a hold of her, the 4-foot-11 woman said she was so scared she lost control of her bladder and was taken outside to a parking lot, where she was questioned and detained for about two hours.
NASA's official position is that it owns every last lunar artifact, and that even samples that are given away—as hundreds have been my NASA itself—technically remain government property. I get it—since we can't manage to get our sorry butts back to Old Luna, there's a limited supply of the grey stuff. But this story is basically the nerd equivalent of a full-scale SWAT raid to turn up one dried up joint.
And how did the crack investigators at NASA find this errant bit o' moon?:
The case was triggered by Davis herself….She emailed a NASA contractor May 10 trying to find a buyer for the rock, as well as a nickel-sized piece of the heat shield that protected the Apollo 11 space capsule as it returned to earth from the first successful manned mission to the moon in 1969.
"I've been searching the internet for months attempting to find a buyer," Davis wrote. "If you have any thoughts as to how I can proceed with the sale of these two items, please call."
They did call, and made a false offer of $1.7 million for the moon shards, only to snag her (and it) out of a booth in a California family restaurant. No changes have been filed, but the NASA investigators kept the moon bit.
Check out Reason's NASA archive.
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I take back what I said on an earlier post about not being a police state.
"I'm being followed by a moon shadow."
Phuque NASA & Phuque Uncle Nanny-ass Sam.
This is offensive on so many levels, the most basic of which was that NASA should have at least informed her that she shouldn't have been given the stuff in the first place, but as long as she keeps it as a memento (and doesn't try and sell it) they won't bother her about it. Then if she still tried to sell it and they caught her, it would be less of a jerk move.
Instead they set up a sting operation. Nice guys. A prototypical example of what happens when you remove all discretion and common sense from the work place; it stops being about the right thing to do, and becomes about what the technicality of some silly rule.
If she was slightly more savvy she could have been dishonest with the origin of the moon rocks. Not all moon rocks have come from NASA!
Speaking of things that belong to other people and never should have been given away...how 'bout we talk some TARP and bailouts?
OK. Go ahead.
Michael Stipe might believe in you, but I do not.
http://thebestpageintheunivers.....ge_to_cops
Couldn't say it any better myself.
Ground Control, am I free to gambol around the nebula?
I almost laughed out loud at work. Well done.
Indeed.
Dammit, something to that effect was my first thought and you beat me to it.
From a geological perspective, the earth is lousy with moonrocks. We should all just pick up some rocks and try to sell them as moonrocks, and when the sting happens we can accurately say that we got ours the easy way.
No it isn't. It's the nerd equivalent of a full-scale SWAT raid to turn up a piece of sand. Because that's exactly what it was. The stupid stands on its own.
I'd ask why every piece of contraband in the country, regardless of context requires an "armed raid" of guys with shaved heads and Oakley sunglasses? But it's all-too familiar here on H&R, so I'll just move to the next blogpost.
It just occurred to me that I probably have some Moon rock molecules on me. I've touched Moon rock several times each at the National Air & Space Museum and at the Kennedy Space Center.
Call me when you have that space monkey in your private collection.
Still working on it.
I mean, can I get the molecules off of me? It's been over a year since I touched Moon rock.
"Our liability coverage is zero. Our balls, however, are enormous."
Can I buy insurance coverage for my entirely inadvertent acquisition of Moon? I didn't mean to get any Moon on me.
What about reflected moonlight? Is that legal? The photons touched the Moon, after all. Shit, I'm so screwed--I look at the Moon all of the time!
"Some would say the Earth is our moon, but that would belittle the name of our moon, which is 'The Moon'."
*raises middle finger*
"I hope he can see this because I'm doing it as hard as I can."
I'm not even going to make it to my car, am I?
"Well, for one thing, ProL, the moon has 1/3 less gravity than your
Earth. I don't know if you can understand that, but...our vertical leap is beyond all measurement."
I feel just like Johnny Fever when he thought the Phone Cops were coming to get him.
"On the moon, ProL, we have advanced beyond rules. And manners. I will spit in your face now."
The Moon in the sky is a NASA-created illusion, anyway. The real Moon blasted out of orbit in September 1999. I know. I saw a video.
That was the sad day we lost Martin Landau and Barbara Bain.
And Barry Morse. Who is going to catch David Janssen now?
William Conrad?
Very good! The narrator for the series, right? I'm surprised you knew that.
Dude. Jake and the Fatman. Come on.
Did they mention his previous work on that show? Like Cannon? I watched The Fugitive some as a kid, but that was in syndication--the show had ended (it was the one-armed man!) around the time I was born.
Dude, he had an awesome voice and he also narrated Wild, Wild World of Animals and...wait for it...Manimal.
As a member of the Old Time Radio Reason club I have to mention that in the radio version of Gunsmoke Conrad played Matt Dillon.
No kidding? I watched a lot of the old TV show when I was a kid.
Believing in the Moon at all is just falling for a rediculous liberal myth to begin with.
duh, it's to create jobs. What are you, a JOB HATING RACIST!?!?
I'm waiting for one of these people to sue for theft of property; I'd ask for a jury
Until private spaceflight is viable, NASA has pretty much a bulletproof defense: All objects carried by the spacecraft are the property of NASA save for the astronauts inhabiting the space.
I'm going to make it my personal mission to acquire Moon rock via a private space outfit. Might as well, since I'm already contaminated with Moon particles.
There's a company just waiting for SpaceX to be able to launch its mining probes to the Moon, since the moon has something like 20x more of platinum, palladium, and other rare metals than Earth. You really could probably buy some moon rock on the cheap from them.
Dude, Mass Effect 2 isn't real.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech.....mine-moon/
So they're going to upgrade the scanner pod bay? Good on them. I would still look out for the Illusive Man.
I mean - it's not real, it's just a game!!
you fucking dumbass
GO TO BED
Okay, but I'm going to store my Moon rocks in my Bigelow apartment.
"NASA has pretty much a bulletproof defense: All objects carried by the spacecraft are the property of NASA save for the astronauts inhabiting the space."
I'd contest that thought. Americans have a history of collecting memorabilia before the 'ebayization' of the world.
The White House alone has thousand of items in the private collections of former POTUS, extended families, former employees etc.
Police officers used to keep souvenirs from important cases including counterfeit money.
Jury trial; I'd call the Clinton's first 😉
Right, but when the objects were sold from the Federal government's possession, the sale contract included the release of any government claim over the objects sold.
NASA made no such contracts that I'm aware of during its moon journey period.
From the article, I would say that NASA consented (albeit implicitly) to the transfer of some Moon Bits as a souvenirs for people involved in the mission. If it did consent, then those Bits aren't NASA's any more.
No, that can't be right. They wouldn't use brute force to enforce such vague rights to their property!
I mean Neil frickin' Armstrong gave it to her.
From the article, I would say that NASA consented (albeit implicitly) to the transfer of some Moon Bits as a souvenirs for people involved in the mission. If it did consent, then those Bits aren't NASA's any more.
They were on an implied lend-lease option. To be terminated at NASA's discretion.
Terminated. . .with extreme prejudice.
They were never sold; they were given by the person in-charge.
I have seen pieces signed with the name of the giver, and other providence info.
It is a clear case of gifting before there was government rules. This action is not in the legal category of Nazi style pilfering/spoils-of-war.
When the government decided they had an interest in historical artifacts through legislating ownership, they did not included past property; ergo the objects owned are not grandfathered in under the law
ergo the objects owned are not grandfathered in under the law
The law was retroactive.
http://answers.yahoo.com/quest.....204AAn0EbT
If so, it constitutes a taking, requiring that the government pay when it repossesses.
Resulting in, it would seem, a not so providential provenance for those objects.
Even if this is not true (however, I believe that you are correct, anon), the feds will just pull the same crap that they pulled on the American Bell System in the 1950s-1980s. Bell had a long distance monopoly granted by the feds in 1934, so of course, the feds went after them for about 30 years for having a monopoly.
Prosecutor full employment strategy.
When you give something away, its not yours any more. Haven't you ever watched Judge Judy? They deal with that shit all the time.
"Never lend your money to a stupid fool, you ain't gonna get it back"
-Judge Aaron Neville
Dude, haven't you ever heard of indian giving!?
I just took White Indian to a whole new level.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
-Lord Chamberlain Polonius
I think Bitch Judy is a more appropriate name for that harridan's show. Put her in a room with Nancy Grace and let them beat the crap out of each other.
"NASA has pretty much a bulletproof defense: All objects carried by the spacecraft are the property of NASA"
Bullshit. More like a bullet hole riddled defense that looks like swiss cheese. This story basically violates the concept of a statute of limitations and all precedent of giving shit away. Just because it was owned by NASA at one time, does not mean it shall remain so forever.
The Soviets had three successful unmanned sample return missions. So unless NASA can *prove* that this spec of sand was carried back by NASA they should go pound sand.
This is epic douchebaggery. I just lost all respect for NASA.
Pretty sure the bit of gray rock is worthless without a certificate of authenticity, so she must have provided that evidence as well.
Though it is douchebaggery.
That's not really a defense, it's an assertion. If I drive my neighbor to Walmart and back, the stuff they bought there doesn't automatically become my property.
Did the astronaughts sign a contract to that effect?
So what does NASA plan to do about Ceau?escu's missing moon rock?
Ebay baby
How long before Germany falls on hard economic times and does the same thing with the pieces of the Berlin Wall?
Which Germany technically owned the Berlin wall? Is property from a country that doesn't exist anymore still owned by anyone?
Nazi Germany?
Very close. Communist Germany, which was identical to Nazi Germany except for the nice part.
The only difference is that Communist Germany didn't kill any jooz, probably because there were none left.
International Socialists killed more Jews than anybody. Their marketing department did a better job of glossing it over than the National Socialists did. Somehow, the Great Durante was more believable than Isaac Marcosson and Will Rogers combined.
The only difference is that Communist Germany didn't kill any jooz, probably because there were none left.
Stalin's communist Russia took care of that.
Almost.
The more I read about the Bolshevik Revolution, the more I am convinced that Lenin wanted to be the last Jew standing.
NASA and SWAT Team are just two things that should never be together in a sentence. The fact that they are tells you all you need to know about the police state.
Well if the Department of Education has one, why can't I?
It's the Police State in Space!
Luckily the Post Office doesn't have a SWAT team, or they'd be busting down the door of everyone who inputs an address wrong and chokes the parser.
In an-cap-land, every space company would have their own SWAT team and their own alpaca cavalry. You don't want to see that.
Considering stories like this, why would anyone want to entrust government goobers with more responsiblity and power over our lives?
Mumble...isolated incident...something...mumble. Oh, look, DWTS is on...
Everyone at NASA should lose their job over this. EVERYONE.
sorry but not being nuked into oblivion by countries with space programs is kinda a popular thing in the us government.
I wonder if no charges have been filed because that would raise an embarrassing question of why Armstrong is not charged for giving away NASA property in first place?
Oh, my God. You don't think NASA SWAT teams are converging on Armstrong's home right now, do you?
For the record, Armstrong is about the only person I might have a cow over if I met him. I've met a couple of astronauts but never Neil Friggin' Armstrong.
"One small battering ram for man; one giant flashbang for mankind."
....seriously? you are just going to believe the word of someone who you KNOW was selling black mater supplies when she says the most famous person in all of nasa gave her 1.7 million dollars in government property? either you are an idiot, or she is an idiot who believed her husband and thus you are an idiot my good sir. you cant fix stupid but you can end it(mainly by drowning in air")
1.7 million dollars in government property?
think about that statement
I believe that astronauts have a personal cargo allowance, so this could have been from Armstrong's personally-owned rocks.
He smuggled it out in his diaper.
....seriously? you are just going to believe the word of someone who you KNOW was selling black mater supplies when she says the most famous person in all of nasa gave her 1.7 million dollars in government property? either you are an idiot, or she is an idiot who believed her husband and thus you are an idiot my good sir. you cant fix stupid but you can end it(mainly by drowning in air")
so....
WDWGTCTRI?
or is that a question that we can never ask again?
I'm sold. Let's shut down NASA.
Probably the best thing that could happen to manned spaceflight. And all of the engineers and astronauts flooding the market afterwards could help NewSpace, too.
NewSpace does need janitors and secretaries.
Now, now. Until recently, if you had the space bug, your options were limited. Any number of competent people are buried in the NASA bureaucracy.
A little off topic, but horrified American Spectator writer discovers that Herman Cain may have Libertarian tendencies:
http://spectator.org/archives/.....rtarianism
Did you bother to read the article? The author isn't horrified by what Cain said, he's supportive.
Government is the biggest thief there can be yet the most zealous of property owners.
Oh, for fuck's sake.
SUBSTANCE
"Ground up moon rocks are pure poison. I am deathly ill."
END SUBSTANCE
That can't be right. I saw a Wallace and Gromit adventure where they actually consumed Moon rock, which, apparently, has a very cheese-like consistency.
Keep it classy NASA. Couldn't they have just sent a couple of guys with a cease and desist order? No, gotta have guns. Ad NASA to the list of government agencies that need to disappear.
Assholes, all of them.
I find that I'm using that word a lot today.
The moon is a harsh mistress.
And I'd love to see Neil Armstrong stand up for the woman since presumably him giving away these mementos were just as illegal, like stealing from your employer.
He claimed ignorance
well duh, thats because her husband stole it......
It isn't stolen property.
The rest of NASA doesn't care about this type of stuff. They've gone full Jim Hansen because it brings the bucks when they can't get funding for space missions.
I live near their HQ and run into their engineers every once in a while. I think I'll bring this incident up next time I do.
We look towards the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcDI_uBGUo
It be may time to start firing back.
Statutes of limitations: only apply to little people when they want to get "their" stuff back.
I wonder if NASA would have any problem with anyone trying to sell this item they dug up on the moon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32.....fied-wood/
Of course, this is asinine and typical of the government. That being, I have no idea why moon rocks or any other space debris is collectable at all. Every thing that exists is billions of years old and is a product of the cosmos and the earth is made up of precisely that cosmic matter as everything else in universe. Nothing makes space dust any more remarkable than the dust from the gravel in my driveway.
Except for the two parties in a transaction.
Do you presume to speak for either of them?
the earth is made up of precisely that cosmic matter as everything else in universe.
Wrong.
NASA "owns" cock.
Any more than my city council "owns" a public park.
I guess it can set rules about acquisition, but in the end NASA is just another taxpayer-paid-for steward of things and ideas and inventions and missions that "belong" to all of us.
The more government claims ownership of things, the more it is separated from its own people. And I guess this is the point.
As long as that fuck Obama is president, you'll never "own" a GM car again.
But that's probably a good thing. GM hasn't made a good car since ... well, GM has never made a good car.
So, wait, instead of having someone in NASA legal or the DoJ respond to her and explain that she just can't do this, they send the fucking commandos? Dear God, if you can hear me, please bring the Apocalypse soon.
The story without paranoid Libertarian raving:
"She must know that this is a questionable transaction because she used the term 'black market,'" Agent Conley states in the search warrant.
Curiously, though, Davis agreed to sell the sample to NASA for a stellar $1.7 million. She said she wanted to leave her three children an inheritance and take care of her sick son.
She knew it was illegal to sell. Also, why is everybody ranting about the SWAT team? An agent in a bullet proof vest =/= SWAT.
There is a hole in your soul where shit has piled in.
You're too kind. You should see the hole in The Derider's head!
Alas, I too was born of schism so I empathize with the contemptible waste of human sperm that is derider to a tiny degree.
She knew it was illegal to sell.
Clearly. People who are trying to sell shit that isn't theirs always contact the government first.
TEST
The emboldened minions of my Fascist Police and War State.
Does it own the moondance, too?
Maybe they killed Michael.
rac, you don't have to look far; there have long been catolog sales of Moon & Mars rocks -- tektites -- that have gotten to Earth in far greater abundance than anything wrought by NASA.
I am surprised NASA didn't banish her to the moon for 1000 years
What's the point? It's not like they could send her there.
zing!
Could too! (sobs uncontrollably)
Shamelessly off topic and possibly repeated: Colombian president Santos today called for marijuana legalization on a global scale. I tried to post this earlier but the squirrels got me, I think. If they didn't I'm sorry for the repeat.
In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women and small yellow flowers from Alpha Centauri were REAL small yellow flowers from Alpha Centauri.
Other off topic good news: Zimbabweans refuse to seize whitey's stuff at behest of ZANU-PF asshole. Mugabe is slowly losing his country.
http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk.....t=textlink
It may be that many Zimbabweans are learning that the economics of class warfare only backfires on them. That is really what it is there, it seems to be more about class than race - the whites tend(ed) to be more upper class because of the history of colonialism. That would even out eventually if a true free market were allowed to flurish but of course that was never permitted.
Chombo (Zanu PF) had the gall to make those remarks at a 'Peace race'? What a tool.
Galavanting around the cosmos is a game for the young.
Can I assume the commandos hi-fived one another when granny literally peed her pants?
well duh thats what made it worth while, that and getting a scum sucking black market dealer who deals in property of indebted countries, off the streets.
If she'd had a dog it could have been a perfect day.
NASA's official position is also: "SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DEFUND NASA (SOMEWHAT)?"
Why does dunphy avoid articles about obvious police thuggery like this and focus on ones where the allegations are ambiguous and still under investigation?
Unfucking real to the point of comical. Apple gets a patent on a fucking event handler state. Gaaa!!!!!
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobi.....nlock/5199
It may very well be possible that not a single day in the seventeen years I have been receiving news on line government in one form or another has not done something to piss me off. Beyond sick of this shit.
This patent shit is out of control.
Who here had the dog that likes to piss on Apple products? If you're reading this, I'd love to buy him from you.
I find it sad, shockingly sad, that it took me to finally make the requisite "Pigs In Spaaaaaaaace" joke.
You people disgust me.
Did the SEC go all tacticool on Bernie Madoff?
NASA is famous for "giving" bits of the moon rocks, etc. to politicians and others over the years, so they don't have clean hands in this matter.
They need to leave the woman alone.
Oh wait, there's a better solution. Let NASA go after a powerful politician's or businessman's granny, who then retaliates by getting Congress to cut off a bunch of NASA's funds.
Tee, hee.