"1 Marine vs. 30 Cops (Marine Wins)"

Matt Welch | 10.17.2011 3:35 PM

Here's a pretty amazing verbal exchange down at Occupy Wall Street:

Thanks to reader "thomas jefferson" for the tip. Reason on #OWS here.

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Warty 13 years ago

The context would be helpful. Did he just see some pigs beat up some hippies, or is he just a crazy yelling man?
1. R C Dean 13 years ago
  
  No kidding.
  
  As an aside (can't watch the video due to a hyperactive firewall), if the Marine (a) was in uniform and (b) was actually attending the protest (as opposed to just passing by), he could be in deep trouble.
  1. irwin mann 13 years ago
    
    We can tell from the facial hair that he is not active duty.
    
    Anyone can claim they served, doesn't mean that it's so.
    1. Double D 13 years ago
      
      One wrong answer, irwin. No-shave chits are commonly issued to personnel with pseudofollicitus barbae, which is not unusual in black men. I've got one myself, though I never actually use it.
      1. Sy 13 years ago
        
        Uh, No-shave chit does not mean you can grow a full beard. MCO requires the Marine to keep it groomed at all times. guy could be shit-bagging it, but my bet is on "former"
    2. There is no "we" 13 years ago
      
      "no true scotsman..."
  2. Dave 13 years ago
    
    He's a retired E-5, notice that he's not wearing any shoulder patches. That said, he was obviously out to make a point. I don't know anyone that decides to take random strolls in BDUs. That said, his point was that they were forced to show more restraint in Iraq than in NYC. I think he accomplished to get it across.
    1. irwin mann 13 years ago
      
      One does not wear ribbons on one's BDU.
    2. Old Soldier 13 years ago
      
      Marines don't put shoulder patches on their utilities. As Irwin notes, they don't wear ribbons on them either.
      
      Marines (I was one before re-enlisting in the Army) aren't authorized to wear their utilities in public unless they are on their way to or from duty. And certainly not with the blouse unbuttoned to allow space for his big civilian gut.
      
      He looks like a shitbird.
      1. Cro-Magnon 13 years ago
        
        The guy is not in the Marine Corps anymore. He was wearing jeans. All he did was put his cammie blouse on and pinned his ribbons to the front to make a point that he was in Iraq and really served.
2. Matt Welch 13 years ago
  
  He explains a bit at the end.
  1. irwin mann 13 years ago
    
    I'm calling BULLSHIT on this guy!
    Fake all the way.
    @ 4:27 when he's telling his where he served he stumbles, he starts with an A and says Iraq.
    He's lying.
    1. The Art-P.O.G. 13 years ago
      
      Maybe he was about to say Al Asad.
      1. 35N4P2BYY 13 years ago
        
        Or Al-Anbar
3. rts 13 years ago
  
  Did he just see some pigs beat up some hippies
  
  That's what he claimed towards the end. That police were "grabbing people for no reason".
4. Nick 13 years ago
  
  Why can't he be both crazy and saw some pigs stomp on hippy faces with jackboots?
  1. Old Soldier 13 years ago
    
    Why didn't he film the hippie stomping instead of his rant?
5. The Wine Commonsewer (TWC) 13 years ago
  
  The context is toward the end of the video, Warty.
6. DK 13 years ago
  
  Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The context doesn't come until about 4:10 when he explains what he saw.
  1. Warty 13 years ago
    
    Aha.
  2. irwin mann 13 years ago
    
    @4:27 he can't remember if he served in A or Iraq. Liar he is. That's not the sort of thing one gets confused about.
Private Hudson 13 years ago

Game over, man! GAME OVER!
1. Sarge 13 years ago
  
  Secure that shit, Hudson.
* 13 years ago

"If you want to kill or hurt people, go to Iraq"

That's a beautiful message. A real humanitarian.
1. The Wine Commonsewer (TWC) 13 years ago
  
  That was hyperbole, RC, and I took it exactly opposite. If you cops think you are so tough, go fight in a real war where the enemy is armed and shooting back.
  1. * 13 years ago
    
    I took it as "if you want to satisfy your bloodlust, go to war," which is not exactly a pacific position.
    
    Who's RC?
    1. bwp 13 years ago
      
      Who said anything about being a pacifist and why in the world would you want to be one? I took it the same way as TWC. He was telling them if they are so tough go to a war zone and prove it.
      1. * 13 years ago
        
        "Who said anything about being a pacifist"
        
        I did.
        
        "He was telling them if they are so tough go to a war zone and prove it."
        
        You're right!
    2. The Wine Commonsewer 13 years ago
      
      I swear I thought that comment was RC Dean's but it turns out it belongs to somebody named asterisk. [shrugs]
Tim 13 years ago

What's he do? Nibble your bum?
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
You're so vain 13 years ago

That was not a 'verbal exchange'; it was a public shaming of the police
Agammamon 13 years ago

He's not in uniform, he's wearing the current gen BDU top, unbuttoned, with a black t-shirt and some ribbons on his breast. And he has a partial beard.

He may be a former Marine strolling around looking for attention.
1. Tacos mmm... 13 years ago
  
  There are no former marines.
  1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
    
    There are all sorts of former Marines. I'm one myself. I think what you meant is that there are no EX-Marines 🙂
    1. Andrew Phule 13 years ago
      
      I always understood it as there are retired marines, but no former marines.
      1. Kerberos 13 years ago
        
        No. If you retire or get an honorable disharge you are a Former Marine, however there is no such thing as an Ex Marine. Once a Marine, Always a Marine.
        
        The Art-P.O.G. 13 years ago
        
        Or if you ETS and join another service, heh heh.
  2. Charles D. Shell 13 years ago
    
    Tell that to the UCMJ.
Bee Tagger 13 years ago

2 thoughts:

1) The cops, in that situation, responded well
2) I wonder how much the vast number of recording devices in the crowed helped ensure those cops responded well.
1. MWG 13 years ago
  
  I was thinking the same, although the looks on some of their faces was priceless.
2. Paul 13 years ago
  
  I noticed the recording seemed very sharp. almost professional. Not the fuzzy crap that comes out of the twitter generation's cell phones. I wonder if it was a larger, more news-cam like camera which scared off the cops.
3. sasob 13 years ago
  
  I wonder how they would have responded if the guy hadn't been dressed in military attire? I also wonder how many of those cops were ex-military.
  1. My guess 13 years ago
    
    None of them, or someone would have said so to him and tried to get him off on a (more private) tangent.
R C Dean 13 years ago

I'm curious. As a ratio of words published to protestors, by what multiple does Reason's coverage of OWS exceed its coverage of the first round of Tea Party protests in the summer of '09? Because it sure seems to me that Reason is treating these penny-ante little encampments and media events as more important than the much larger, deeper, and more widespread Tea Party events.
1. Joe M 13 years ago
  
  There is quite a lot of coverage of OWS here, but maybe that's because it's a continuous, every day thing, whereas the Tea Party events were intermittent, what with the participants having, you know, jobs and stuff.
  1. R C Dean 13 years ago
    
    I suspect its got a lot less to do with the continuous, every day thing (which is generally a reason [snerk] for media coverage to taper off and disappear) than some kind of weird cosmo/prog nostalgia for a particular kind of protest, no matter how smallish, incoherent, and misguided.
    1. Joe M 13 years ago
      
      Well, perhaps for boring events, the coverage would taper off, but when there's a steady stream of nonsense flowing in, it's hard not to notice.
    2. Mensan 13 years ago
      
      I suspect it has to do with the police response to the protests. Except for rare exceptions, the police were not used to control TP protests, and, when they were, beatings did not follow.
    3. Linus 13 years ago
      
      Reason tends to be left-libertarian, not right.
      And that's what news bias is all about, Charlie Brown.
2. Esteban 13 years ago
  
  And they really are tiny. Even the main one in NYC is small. Zuccotti park is really pretty small. It's not just reason. Saturday night on the local news, the anchor said "The protests are spreading. Dozens in Long Island, 100 in Raleigh, NC, 200 in Phoenix"
  
  WTF? A few thousand people in NY, and 100 or so in other random cities is meaningful now?
  1. Dookie Brown 13 years ago
    
    Hey Esteban, I ran into the one in Birmingham Alabama last week. It consited of four people and a guitar.
3. Tony 13 years ago
  
  Wonder why the TP never went global.
  1. Jordan 13 years ago
    
    It did.
    
    http://dailycaller.com/2010/06.....the-hague/
    1. Mr. FIFY 13 years ago
      
      No, it didn't, but now the OWS fuckers are potentially going to be responsible for starting mass violence in the name of wealth envy.
      
      Proud much, Tony?
      1. Coeus 13 years ago
        
        They may be responsible, but they won't be held responsible. The violence at the italian protest was billed as "right wing soccer groups".
        
        That's right. If they like soccer, they're "soccer groups". If there's violence, they're "right wing soccer groups". Since OWS leans left, they couldn't possible be responsible for violence.
txpatriot 13 years ago

I don't see the cops hurting anybody. Why is this guy ranting? And what makes anyone think he's a Marine? He doesn't sound like any Marine I know.
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
  1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
    
    "no true scotsman..."
    1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
      
      "no true scotsman..."
      1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
        
        "no true scotsman..."
        
        There is no "we" 13 years ago
        
        "no true scotsman..."
        
        There is no "we" 13 years ago
        
        "no true scotsman..."
        
        There is no "we" 13 years ago
        
        "no true scotsman..."
Dick 13 years ago

He sounds and acts like a lunatic. Screw him and go back to beating the hippies.
1. Torontonian 13 years ago
  
  You really are a Dick.
  1. Dick 13 years ago
    
    Yeah, I am. You just figure that out all by yourself?
DJAYER5925 13 years ago

I just cops standing there.I'm confused what set this off?what is his name?I'm curious to know if he is a vet(I am) and I would never show up like that.
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
wingnutx 13 years ago

Meh, a bunch of bored cops watching a crazy screaming guy.

Sgt Shamar Thomas is/was a reservist, not sure if currently drilling, in IRR, or completely out.

If he's still drilling or IRR then he's in a heap of trouble for protesting in uniform.

Badly assembled, uniform, btw. Inisgnia in the wrong place, ribbons on the wrong uniform, blouse unbuttoned & shirt untucked, unshaven and uncovered. He looks like a complete bag of ass.
1. Sy 13 years ago
  
  ^THIS^
  1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
    
    "no true scotsman..."
2. JD the elder 13 years ago
  
  Badly assembled, uniform, btw. Inisgnia in the wrong place, ribbons on the wrong uniform, blouse unbuttoned & shirt untucked, unshaven and uncovered. He looks like a complete bag of ass.
  
  I live in NYC, and I can tell you it's not uncommon to see guys wandering around dressed like this. I always assumed they just thought the camo looked cool, but who knows?
Dale 13 years ago

Marine won? BS Reason.
1. Matt Welch 13 years ago
  
  Quotation marks indicate quotation of outside source, not original description.
  1. Paul 13 years ago
    
    Don't fuck with The Welch when you're talking the business of news.
2. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
kenny 13 years ago

I am not sure this guy has been in the military. I have never seen anyone wearing campaign ribbons on MCCUUs. They are normally worn on the Service A,B or C uniforms and Dress Blues. MCCUU (Marine Corp Combat Utility Uniform) is wait this man is wearing in a very ill fitting manner.
1. kenny 13 years ago
  
  ooops.....what he is wearing not wait sorry for the typo
2. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
  1. Paul 13 years ago
    
    Wears a kilt?
adam 13 years ago

I doubt this guy is/was a Marine or has been to Iraq.
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
  1. Sy 13 years ago
    
    That fallacy is misplaced. You can quit spamming it now. Several former Marines have just pointed out several SEVERE discrepancies with this guys' appearance and uniform. The Marine Corps instills a very intense sense of pride about public appearance while in uniform, so the fact that this guy is walking around in a ridiculous clusterfuck of several uniforms calls his claim into question.
    1. The Art-P.O.G. 13 years ago
      
      I remember Jesse Macbeth.
      1. Sy 13 years ago
        
        I never why people do it. I don't personally care about the "dishonor" aspect of it. They just look like idiots.
Tim 13 years ago

Fake
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
  1. This Dave 13 years ago
    
    Each time you post that, I become more in favor of the side you oppose.
    1. ER 13 years ago
      
      So what you are saying is you are weak and easily manipulated?
      1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
        
        "no true scotsman..."
Hirai 13 years ago

One costumed, legitimized thug yelling at other state-employed thugs. The difference between them is that the Marine terrorizes and bullies foreigners, but the cops beat and terrify people here at home.
1. Sudden 13 years ago
  
  And the people that the cops are beating and terrorizing, who are the same people this guy is livid over the treatment of, would just as soon hire people to coerce us through beatings and terror into giving up our hard earned money in order to subsidize their existences.
  1. Tony 13 years ago
    
    What a ridiculous creep you are.
    1. . 13 years ago
      
      What's that, Tony - your new term for honest person?
      1. Mr. FIFY 13 years ago
        
        Sudden hit a nerve! Good on ya, Sudden!
        
        This Dave 13 years ago
        
        Just because that's how it goes every time their side implements the "worker's paradise", doesn't mean we shouldn't just keep doing it. I'm barely old enough to have followed the events of '89, but I seem to remember their side had to build some sort of wall to keep people from fleeing paradise.
  2. There is no "we" 13 years ago
    
    pick your poison...
2. Brad 13 years ago
  
  Don't forget the part about "random" people. The cops here just look to beat anyone they can find, right. They hate all citizens, especially hippies. Ridiculous.
  Everyone hates the existence of cops until the day they are violated with a crime.
  1. dunphy 13 years ago
    
    except that's false.
    
    as poll after poll, endlessly cited shows - the vast majority of people (in the US) respect cops.
    
    i see no evidence that everyone or even most people hates the existence of cops. in fact, i routinely see quite the opposite
    1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
      
      exactly. it's the cops who disrespect and hate the people.
      1. dunphy 13 years ago
        
        teehee!!!
    2. Paul 13 years ago
      
      I have to agree with Dunphy here. And speaking for Occupy Seattle, like the Occupy LA movement, the cops and protesters are generally friendly with eachother.
Applederry 13 years ago

While I enjoy a public shaming of the police as much as anyone, this was kind of embarrassing to watch. I hate it when people flaunt their ribbons or lord their service over others as if it makes them better than them. It just looks like attention grabbing and in my experience, is most often done by people who have seen combat the least.

Of course it also doesn't help that he kept repeating the same thing a dozen times in a kind of shrill voice.
Jeff P 13 years ago

Can we get Christopher Plummer, David Warner, and Michael Dorn to show up in full Klingon make-up and school the cops about honor?
1. Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
  
  Christopher Lloyd.
2. JW 13 years ago
  
  Throw in John Colicos and Michael Ansara and you've got a deal.
  1. . 13 years ago
    
    Michael Ansara? That'd be a good trick - he's been dead for some years.
    1. This Dave 13 years ago
      
      Don't forget John Tesh.
    2. The Art-P.O.G. 13 years ago
      
      According to Wikipedia, Ansara lives yet.
Matt Welch 13 years ago

Dude's supposed to be on Olbermann's show tonight, for those interested (and who know how to find Olbermann's show).
1. Applederry 13 years ago
  
  I'm guessing it's similar to how you find Imaginationland?
2. Craig Kilborn 13 years ago
  
  Olbermann's got a show???? I've got to get me one of those!!!
  1. Arsenio Hall 13 years ago
    
    Great Idea.
    1. Morton Downey Jr 13 years ago
      
      It's not all it's cracked up to be.
      
      Plus you can't smoke on-air anymore.
      1. Mr. FIFY 13 years ago
        
        You can smoke on internet-based TV shows... until the FCC gets their fuckin' mitts on the internet, I mean.
3. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
  
  Why do people keep giving Olbermann shows?
  1. Apogee 13 years ago
    
    Why do people keep giving Olbermann shows?
    
    See Here
Brad 13 years ago

Cops taking random people and beating them in Time Square is either ridiculous or isolated and the cop(s) would never survive. This man is disturbed for sure, and the camera men around him kept fueling his fire. Part of the real problem is that the US tries to be the cops to the rest of the world, takes men like him, trains them to be robotic animals and kill others, then return and assimilate into society.

So who's responsible for this man's state of mind?

We need a police force for the very reason of allowing OWS to take place in an orderly manner so as not to harm or rob other citizens of their rights.
1. On the other hand... 13 years ago
  
  He was absolutely right about the cops coming out fully decked out in riot gear for what was a pretty peaceful scene (minus one loud elephant-sized man).
Marty McFly 13 years ago

The cops seem to be waiting for the white coats to show up and take this guy to the loony bin.
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
Sailor 13 years ago

Currenttv is next to cspan2 and fbn on my cable. Will he yell at Olberman like he yelled at the cops?
sage 13 years ago

MIC CHECK! MIC CHECK! MIC CHECK!
1. Esteban 13 years ago
  
  Jazz Hands!
  1. Paul 13 years ago
    
    If the OWS-ers were clicking they're fingers, that'd almost be cool. But their doing the double-hand wave. (advance to 2:37 for context)
    1. Paul 13 years ago
      
      Their doing should be "they're doing".
      
      Whatev.
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

I don't care what the rest of these hippie-bashers say, I enjoyed that.
1. MWG 13 years ago
  
  Agreed.
lowonprozac 13 years ago

The guy is an attention-seeking jackass, performing for the audience and the camera. Reason should be ashamed to run this self-promoter's video.
Mike 13 years ago

I do not get how that was amazing?

Seriously, those cops only looked bored. And if a bunch of FLEA partiers were blocking streets, business or something else they ought to be moved.

Reason. Pull your damn head out of your ass, these people are MORALLY wrong, often evil and almost always ignorant.
1. dunphy 13 years ago
  
  it was about as amazing as during the WTO riots when the "lesbian avengers" who were nekkid from the waste up "protesters" with messages scrawled on their saggy boobs yelled at us (the cops) about how the WTO was just an extension of the evil capitalist patriarchy.
  
  yawn
  1. rts 13 years ago
    
    I hope you carry eye bleach.
    1. dunphy 13 years ago
      
      the general rule in law enforcement is that the people you see naked are rarely the people you would like to see naked. that has been true in 20+ yrs of law enforcement. i used to lifeguard at a beach that allowed nudity and even there, it was the rich fat housewives that were less concerned about baring it all, than the hot nubile college girls.
      1. Paul 13 years ago
        
        Unfortunately that law applies pretty much everywhere. Nudity is like currency, the more valuable it is, the less of it and more elusive it becomes.
        
        Mensan 13 years ago
        
        I don't know if it applies everywhere. In college I delivered pizzas, and often had deliveries to both the local nudist communiity (law applies), and a couple of the local strip clubs (law usually doesn't apply).
        
        This Dave 13 years ago
        
        Yes, but in your example, nudity and currency have a different relationship.
      2. Gibreel 13 years ago
        
        i guess you haven't been to phuket
  2. Fletch 13 years ago
    
    the "lesbian avengers" who were nekkid from the waste up "protesters"
    
    RC's Law!
Ben 13 years ago

LOUD NOISES!
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  "no true scotsman..."
Bob Mc 13 years ago

"I've been to Iraq fourteen times"!

Is that even possible? Fourteen deployments in the eight and a half years the US gas been fighting there? How long is a typical deployment for a Marine?
1. silent v 13 years ago
  
  He says he has been to Iraq fourteen months. Grammatically troublesome, but believable
2. rts 13 years ago
  
  Maybe he was guarding the embassy, dancing at the gate a la Homer Simpson.
USMC 28 years 13 years ago

This guy is a poser. A Marine would never appear in public totally out of uniform, the ribbons, the sleeves are not even close.
1. There is no "we" 13 years ago
  
  no true scotsman...
wingnutx 13 years ago

He is authentic, unfortunately.

A shitbag, but an actual Marine.
Derek 13 years ago

Yay! Intimidating thuggery and shouting down alternate views! Go anarchy! Or wait... communism! Whatever, screw capitalism!
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

If he isn't legit, it'll be sussed out soon enough.
Chris 13 years ago

Uhh... why link to this at all Reason? All I see is a deranged possible marine going off on cops in regular uniforms, accusing them of being in riot gear, and telling them to stop hurting people. Meanwhile the cops are standing there saying "Move along folks." For this nutjobs reaction you'd expect the camera to pan and see blood in the streets. Nothing was happening. This was a performance for the cameras, or the guy is shellshocked and needs some counseling.
1. This Dave 13 years ago
  
  I don't get it either. Reason can and does call out cops when appropriate, but what is the incident here? These cops behaved exactly as thu should have, and if there was some random beat-down going on, there is a 100% chance it was caught on film. Probably even by a phone made by a KKKorporation. Either show it or don't post stuff like this.
Heroic Mulatto 13 years ago

In his own words:

Sgt. Shamar Thomas USMC Veteran. I took an Oath that I live by.I am NOT anti-NYPD. I am anti- Police Brutality. I am no longer under contract with the USMC so I do NOT have to follow military uniform regulations. I DON'T affiliate myself with ANY GROUPS or POLITICAL ORG. I affiliate myself with the AMERICAN PEOPLE that's it. I REFUSE to affiliate with anything that SEPERATES. There is an obvious problem in the country and PEACEFUL PEOPLE should be allowed to PROTEST without Brutality. I was involved in a RIOT in Rutbah, Iraq 2004 and we did NOT treat the Iraqi citizens like they are treating the unarmed civilians in our OWN Country. No one was brutalized because our mission was to "WIN the hearts and minds", why should I expect anything less in my OWN Country.

SEMPER FI
BoscoH 13 years ago

WTF people? That was the trailer for Hancock 2: Straight Outa Gotham.
Justin 13 years ago

A screaming hysteric is supposed to be somehow impressive?
me/dwc 13 years ago

I have no idea what this guy witnessed, so his outrage may well be legitimate and justified or it may be, as some have suggested, that he is just an attention whore. Somebody mentioned that the cops would be stupid to randomly attack people because the crowd would go after them. I have to assume that many of you were not alive and aware in 1968.
Muirin 13 years ago

Did he say he served in Iraq 14 times? Kind of hard to hear that part.
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