Via Alan Vanneman comes word that the Great Recession has turned Minnesota Nice into well-earned skepticism at building publicly financed stadiums for high-performance losers. Land-o-Lakers, reports the NY Times, aren't getting behind a $1.1 billion stadium for football's Vikings:
"We have to ask whether this is really a good use of the money," said King Banaian, one of more than 30 Republicans to join Minnesota's House of Representatives this year and a professor who teaches sports economics at St. Cloud State University. "Should we be supporting a new stadium over higher education? It's simply not a priority. These deals are, by and large, giveaways to millionaires and billionaires."…
To put it bluntly, regardless of how much money the state treasury might be rolling in, a public stadium is not a good use of money. Indeed, sports economists Dennis Coates and Brad Humphries estimate the presence of a major-league franchise reduces overall GDP by about $40 per resident in a given metro area.
The Vikes' ownership has graciously offered to put up $400 million and the state is looking at ponying up $300 million, which means county and local taxpayers (read: suckers) would be on the hook for the remaining $400 million [note: corrected figures to millions]. So generous of the owners, don't you think? Needless to say, the team would get all naming rights and a host of other related goodies.
"How many of you have been touched to your fiber at some time in your lives because of the Minnesota Vikings?" [team owner Zygi] Wilf said during a recent luncheon at the St. Paul Rotary Club, and about two-thirds of the audience raised a hand. "We realize that we're not just the owners of a proud franchise, but we're really stewards of a franchise for the benefit of all the fans who have been touched by the Minnesota Vikings."
Forbes says the team is valued at $835 million and throws off $200 million in revenue annually (the Times' reports a lower value and says profit is low for the team that has lost a record four Super Bowls. That's quite low for the NFL but I'm guessing it's well north of what most Minnesotans make.
Here's a real surprise: Almost 75 percent of local residents don't think public money should be used for a new stadium but the folks literally invested in the team and the building of the stadium are all for it!
Despite the uphill fight to win over legislators, Ted Mondale, the governor's chief negotiator in the stadium debate, said that labor unions, construction companies and corporate executives already back the stadium plan. He emphasized that the stadium would not be corporate welfare and that everything, including naming rights, parking and development rights, was on the table. Opponents need to understand that the state's investment will generate far greater returns, and that the cost of doing nothing would be far worse, he said.
"It's tough to do this in a recession," Mondale said. But "if you lose an N.F.L. team, you look like a loser city."
The issue of a Vikings stadium on the taxpayer dole came up during Matt Welch's and my "Ask a Libertarian" day earlier this year. As we note, not only do the Vikings owe every taxpayer a rebate check, they owe them an apology. Check it out:
Watch the whole "Ask a Libertarian" series (topics range from abortion to net neutrality to movement infighting).
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I was a HUGE Vikings fan as a yute (mostly since the Lions have sucked SO bad since 1957, we never had a chance to root them on in the playoffs...cause they never made the playoffs).
I died a little bit with each of the four Stupid Bowl losses. And I wanna say Denver and Buffalo have since matched that feat? Although, of course, Denver finally won w/Elway.
Whatever - do whatcha want, just don't spend my money on your stadium.
Ah, are you forgetting the awesome 1970 Lions club? They made the playoffs. THough they lost to Dallas, 5-3, they were a good team.
Greg Landry
Bill Munson
Lem Barney
charlie sanders
earl McCullough
How about the great 1991 Lions who made it to the NFC championship game? One of my favorite NFL playoff games of all time was the vicious beating the Lions laid on the Cowpokes at the Silverdome on January 6, 1992.
The Vikes' ownership has graciously offered to put up $400 billion and the state is looking at ponying up $300 billion, which means county and local taxpayers (read: suckers) would be on the hook for the remaining $400 billion.
Are you sure about that Billion? Something tells be a stadium shouldn't cost a trillion dollars.
But "if you lose an N.F.L. team, you look like a loser city."
And that says it all, right there. There are hordes of people who will not be swayed by the economic arguments, because they don't care that it's a bad deal. It's about tribal pride ("national greatness!") and they are more than willing to be poorer for the sake of not feeling shame at losing their franchise.
It's actually a revealed preference economic argument, if you think about it: they are willing to pay in exchange for the pride they feel in having a major franchise. And they're willing to vote for you to pay for that pride, as well.
The Florida (soon to be Miami) Marlins, raped Dade County residents for their new stadium. In 2 or 3 years, they will be getting their usual 1,000 fans per game.
I remember talking some jerkoff lawyer at a startup function about two years ago. He was talking about how embarrassing it was that Seattle lost the Sonics because Key Arena is tiny and shitty, and how "the city" should have built a new arena (where, asshole?) to keep them. I had to walk away so that I didn't rip into him about how "the city" was in fact us and our money, and if he wanted a new fucking arena so much, he could spend his own fucking money on it. I was there to build relationships, you see, not to destroy them.
"Pop?" You really are a midwesterner. I can't talk; I'm still rooting for the Vikings in this midst of what looks to become their worst season in a decade or more.
I attended my brother's wedding in July this year. Overall, it was great meeting my sister-in-law's family. Many of whom I am proud to say are my "new" family. At Sunday brunch, however, my wife and I were seated with the bride's cousin, who works at a law firm in Washington DC. Upon further discussion, we learned his job consists of representing the interests of his clients to legislative representatives and executive branch administrators in the Federal government. In short, he's a lobbyist, whose clients are rent-seeking fucks. My wife eyed me nervously, as we learned more about our new cousin, and some of the clients he represents. There was a palpable tension in the air. I was about to leap across the table and strangle him, but like you Almanian, "I was there to build relationships, you see, not to destroy them."
Yeah. She can definitely recognize key words that might set me off, such as: subsidies, lobbyist, tax legislation, draft regulation, etc. She's seen me scream at the TV or radio on a few occasions.
oh, I'm not happy. The curse of the Lions is strong... if they make it to the playoffs, I'll be shocked. If they make it to the Superbowl and lose, I'll faint. If they win, ER here I come!
If there is anyone who needs to be fucked in the ass with a hot fire poker it's billionaire team owners who ask for hundreds of millions of Joe Blow's tax dollars to build stadiums for their teams and the ass hats who vote to give my money to them.
You have no idea how much hate is directed at the former mayor of Dallas, Laura Miller, for not bankrupting the city in order to get Jerryworld built here instead of in Arlington.
Honest to god, people spit out her name to this day, because they would rather be broke and have a shiney new stadium than not be broke.
Opponents need to understand that the state's investment will generate far greater returns, and that the cost of doing nothing would be far worse, he said.
"Also, Minnesota will be overrun by werewolves if we don't build this stadium, and little babies will be torn to shreds in their cribs, so cough it up, you stingy bastards!"
"How many of you have been touched to your fiber at some time in your lives because of the Minnesota Vikings?" [team owner Zygi] Wilf said during a recent luncheon at the St. Paul Rotary Club
And they didn't immediately start pelting him with chicken bones?
What? Minnesota prostitutes not good enough for the home team? Are the Vikings unwilling to give back and reinvest in the community that has given them so much?
Opponents need to understand that the state's investment [sic]* will generate far greater returns for the owners, and that the cost of doing nothing would be far worse for the owners, he said.
*Its not an investment if you aren't getting some kind of property rights for it, its a gift.
There's a lot of outrage here in Columbus -- Voters have turned down various arena/stadium tax issues multiple times, but the city is going to go ahead and buy Nationwide Arena from the private owners so they can give a sweetheart deal to the Blue Jackets, who are now dead to me. (The BJs were pretty much dead, anyway.)
As a lifelong Vikes' fan, I can assure you I'd rather have no football team to root for than see those fucking rent-seeking welfare queen Wilfs get a dime of taxpayer money.
(disclaimer - I'm actually part of the fairly sizeable Vikings diaspora, so it wouldn't be my money on the line anyway. But fuck, you gotta be a fucking maroon to want to pay that much tax scratch for such a shitass team).
Not to mention some of those 75% opposed would change their minds if the team were Superbowl-bound.
I might have to become a Redskins fan. Whodathunk in the place where all the rent seekers come for handouts, there would be one of the only non-taxpayer-funded stadia?*
*I'm well aware of taxpayer involvement in the surrounding infrastructure and the reason Cooke built the stadium there was because PG County gave him the ROADZ he wanted. So shut up.
Why do I ask? See my thread below regarding the Krafts. The way it is couched here is that the people's republic of massachusetts "investment" of 70 million dollars was "just for infrastructure".
Thanks to felon Finneran, the former speaker of the Massachusetts House of Representatives and co-host of a morning drive time talk show, the Krafts were not able to fleece the taxpayers for the entirety of the white elephant.
Let's see: I have the same number of rings as you, an equally strong and probably more accurate arm then you, and better decision making skills. I'm on pace to through a comparable number of TDs with probably 2/3 the INTs you threw in your career.
So you can kiss my ass, though I'm much too modest to ever publically compain about the five years of waffling that kept me and my insane talents on the bench.
Vanman and a book plug in the same post. A Gillespie trifecta looms on the horizon. I'm not sure what the third element would be exactly, but it would have something to do with leather jackets.
The Kraft toadies here in New England will tell you that Gillete Stadium in Foxboro was constructed with no public monies.
There are people who believe it. Incredible, but there are people who will swear by it.
The state of massachusetts poined up about 70 million dollars. The more sophomoric of the Kraft ass kissers will retort, "but that's for infrastructure" as if that is somehow a saving grace.
The Krafts played the we'll leave unless you build us a new stadium extortion game. They signed a deal with the state of Connecticut.
Thanks to former Massachusetts speaker of the house and convicted felon, Tom Finneran, the Krafts were prevented from looting bay state tax-payers for the full tab.
The krafts, through various leaks to friendly media, attempted to depict Finneran as....surpirse, surprise, surpirse, an anti-semite.
That's how the game is played.
I have been to the Big House, the Rose Bowl and the old Schaefer Stadium. All three are far greater fan experiences than Gillette could ever be. The old Schaefer Stadium was built for 6.1 million and opened in 1971. The last game to be played at the old park was the "tuck rule" snow bowl.
If Packer arrogance could be made into a liquified, burnable gas, it could power enough McDonalds' restaurants to provide each Packers fan with the 4,000 calories a day he or she needs to maintain his or her pear-shaped figure.
I wouldn't know since I've never set foot in Wisconsin, I just happen to be from that highly populated region of California that has no football team and a shitload of insufferable Raider chollos.
My earliest football memory was a game where Brett Favre through for over 400 yards against said Raiders.
Packers fans may be insufferable to Vikings fans, because the Vikings have been the Packers' biggest rivalry (possibly tied with the Bears again) over the past 15-20 years. But Packers fans feel the same way about Vikings fans.
Sigh. I'll take any action anyone here is willing to put up that the Vikes will have a new stadium by Christmas.
It is going to be the same as when the Twins screwed us over. No one wanted that either, but the pols and the Twinks came up with a plan to slide it past the taxpayers.
The stars are looking the same here now. Just last Sunday the local rag ran yet another glowing article about how Ziggy was such a kind and forgiving owner (based on the fact that he was still negotiating with us instead of simply ordering the legislature to pay up).
The problem is that Ziggy hires a bunch of lobbyists who spend all their time harassing the pols while us taxpayers waste all our time by doing stupid things like going to work.
The only hope I can see at this point to thwart the Vikes is that the locals in Ramsey county are trying to insist on their right to vote on the tax deal in a referendum.
The local boosters are upset about the upstarts wanting to vote on the issue. They say that important stuff like this is not supposed to be voted on in a referendum by the unwashed mob. That is why we elect representatives after all.
The only problem with that take is that our elected representatives passed a law (I think because they were actually representing their constituents) requiring that a referendum be held for any deal that calls for an increase in the sales tax. An ex-pol who is an anti-tax, anti-stadium crank has a pretty good takedown of the anti-referendum folk.
Ike, so if we waste money on one tax payer boondoggle, we are on the hook for them all?
I'd rather shoot down the Vikes and then tell all the other welfare queens who want state funding "Shoot, we didn't even fund the Vikes and people liked them, why on earth would you think we would give you money for your [insert name of taxpayer boondoggle]?"
Maybe the Vikes could try to explain their season as performance art (it would be easier to swallow than the obvious explanation of suckitude) and glom onto some money from the Heritage Fund.
I was a HUGE Vikings fan as a yute (mostly since the Lions have sucked SO bad since 1957, we never had a chance to root them on in the playoffs...cause they never made the playoffs).
I died a little bit with each of the four Stupid Bowl losses. And I wanna say Denver and Buffalo have since matched that feat? Although, of course, Denver finally won w/Elway.
Whatever - do whatcha want, just don't spend my money on your stadium.
Ah, are you forgetting the awesome 1970 Lions club? They made the playoffs. THough they lost to Dallas, 5-3, they were a good team.
Greg Landry
Bill Munson
Lem Barney
charlie sanders
earl McCullough
How about the great 1991 Lions who made it to the NFC championship game? One of my favorite NFL playoff games of all time was the vicious beating the Lions laid on the Cowpokes at the Silverdome on January 6, 1992.
No, I'm counting that. I was 8 - my heart still bears the scar tissue.
And, yeah, Fontes teased us with some teams.
I wore 88 on my LIONS JERSEY I had as a kid cause I was a big Charlie Sanders fan. Him and Lem Barney were the shit.
One of my best buddies since high school could, at one time, pass for Eric Hipple and Wade Boggs and Robin Williams (when he had hair).
How about the playoff game where the Packers held Barry Sanders to -1 rushing yards? 🙂
The Vikes' ownership has graciously offered to put up $400 billion and the state is looking at ponying up $300 billion, which means county and local taxpayers (read: suckers) would be on the hook for the remaining $400 billion.
Are you sure about that Billion? Something tells be a stadium shouldn't cost a trillion dollars.
As a Dallas resident, let me assure you: Jerry Jones will find a way to make that happen.
His next proposal will be to dome the entire Metroplex as a new Cowboys stadium/concession/shopping mall complex.
You gotta admit, that would be pretty fokin cool.
A dome over Houston is already on the drawing board:
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/me.....about.html
Protection from heat and hurricanes...
It will be contracted out to Bush-Obama Industries.
And that says it all, right there. There are hordes of people who will not be swayed by the economic arguments, because they don't care that it's a bad deal. It's about tribal pride ("national greatness!") and they are more than willing to be poorer for the sake of not feeling shame at losing their franchise.
It's actually a revealed preference economic argument, if you think about it: they are willing to pay in exchange for the pride they feel in having a major franchise. And they're willing to vote for you to pay for that pride, as well.
The Florida (soon to be Miami) Marlins, raped Dade County residents for their new stadium. In 2 or 3 years, they will be getting their usual 1,000 fans per game.
I remember talking some jerkoff lawyer at a startup function about two years ago. He was talking about how embarrassing it was that Seattle lost the Sonics because Key Arena is tiny and shitty, and how "the city" should have built a new arena (where, asshole?) to keep them. I had to walk away so that I didn't rip into him about how "the city" was in fact us and our money, and if he wanted a new fucking arena so much, he could spend his own fucking money on it. I was there to build relationships, you see, not to destroy them.
So, basically, the exact opposite of your personna here at H&R? ; )
Build this (grabs crotch), Jim.
Don't do that, you'll summon rather!
HEY, HEY, HEY....WHOOOOOAAAAAA...easy there, big fella...
Summon this (grabs crotch), Jim.
That made pop shoot out my nose - stop it
"Pop?" You really are a midwesterner. I can't talk; I'm still rooting for the Vikings in this midst of what looks to become their worst season in a decade or more.
Thank you for making my Chiefs look less bad.
I'm still rooting for the Vikings in this midst of what looks to become their worst season in a decade or more last year.
Strikethrough fail. Anyway, last year was nothing. They can do much, much worse.
Add since
I have been defeated! *disappears in a puff of smoke*
You're a Uniter, not a Divider Epi - and doin' a heckuva job
Epi, in that kind of situation I usually say, "I agree with you, here's me business card". But that's just the kind of whore I am.
Because I always like to talk like a pirate.
what if he had a rac like meghan McCain?
Pearl jam.
Or, you could say "Look, you're obviously an idiot who needs all the expert help he can get. Here's my card."
Tell him that if he's embarrassed, he could to move to Cleveland and cheer on the Cavs in their taxpayer funded arena.
I attended my brother's wedding in July this year. Overall, it was great meeting my sister-in-law's family. Many of whom I am proud to say are my "new" family. At Sunday brunch, however, my wife and I were seated with the bride's cousin, who works at a law firm in Washington DC. Upon further discussion, we learned his job consists of representing the interests of his clients to legislative representatives and executive branch administrators in the Federal government. In short, he's a lobbyist, whose clients are rent-seeking fucks. My wife eyed me nervously, as we learned more about our new cousin, and some of the clients he represents. There was a palpable tension in the air. I was about to leap across the table and strangle him, but like you Almanian, "I was there to build relationships, you see, not to destroy them."
Sounds like your wife knows you well.
Yeah. She can definitely recognize key words that might set me off, such as: subsidies, lobbyist, tax legislation, draft regulation, etc. She's seen me scream at the TV or radio on a few occasions.
"on a few occasions"?
Its nice to see that you have a nice sense of euphemism.
Yes, but are the Vikings an NFL team?
A more probable explanation is the Vikings being beaten by the Detroit Lions. That's enough to scare any sports fan.
Preach it, Humungus.
What if they were beaten by the Seahawks?
HA HA HA HA
I'm just kidding. Who loses to the Seahawks?
The world champine New Orleans Saints!
The St. Louis Lambs, if their season continues along at the same pace it has.
It would be especially bad because the Seahawks have Tavarus Jackson the loser QB we got rid of (for the stellar Donovan McNabb).
Donovan McNabb ahahhahahahah
I'm a Redskins fan, which means I can actually say the following phrase: "Going with Grossman is an improvment."
Let's not get too happy till they actually...win something. Anyone else remember THIS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku4GQocJs6g
Who doesn't relish such awesome autmnal memories from 1980?
oh, I'm not happy. The curse of the Lions is strong... if they make it to the playoffs, I'll be shocked. If they make it to the Superbowl and lose, I'll faint. If they win, ER here I come!
Didn't they start 4-0 in 1980?
I still remember them losing the Thanksgiving game that year by way of the Bears returning the overtime kick-off for a touchdown.
Good for them. Last year Santa Clara citizens all agreed to let the 9ers ass-rape them. Morons
As Brian pointed out - "millions"! Neat article though. As a Vikes fan - hope they somehow get the funding.
I have it on good authority that Black Kettle opposed rent seeking.
As a St. Paul resident, I hope they still broadcast the games after they move to LA.
Wow, I didn't know that Rick Perry QBed the Vikings at one time.
If there is anyone who needs to be fucked in the ass with a hot fire poker it's billionaire team owners who ask for hundreds of millions of Joe Blow's tax dollars to build stadiums for their teams and the ass hats who vote to give my money to them.
You have no idea how much hate is directed at the former mayor of Dallas, Laura Miller, for not bankrupting the city in order to get Jerryworld built here instead of in Arlington.
Honest to god, people spit out her name to this day, because they would rather be broke and have a shiney new stadium than not be broke.
Honest to god, people spit out her name to this day, because they would rather be broke and have a shiney new stadium than not be broke.
That's because they're broke, with or without the new stadium.
if you lose are so desperate to be taken seriously that you give hundreds of millions of dollars away to an N.F.L. team, you look like a loser city
Thanks for the mention. Long time fan of Reason, first time ever appearing here.
And yes, millions.
I wish you were MY rep.
Opponents need to understand that the state's investment will generate far greater returns, and that the cost of doing nothing would be far worse, he said.
"Also, Minnesota will be overrun by werewolves if we don't build this stadium, and little babies will be torn to shreds in their cribs, so cough it up, you stingy bastards!"
"How many of you have been touched to your fiber at some time in your lives because of the Minnesota Vikings?" [team owner Zygi] Wilf said during a recent luncheon at the St. Paul Rotary Club
And they didn't immediately start pelting him with chicken bones?
Jesus, you suck, Minnesota.
I know these prostitutes flown in from Atlanta and Florida for the Vikings amusement were pretty touched.
What? Minnesota prostitutes not good enough for the home team? Are the Vikings unwilling to give back and reinvest in the community that has given them so much?
Opponents need to understand that the state's investment [sic]* will generate far greater returns for the owners, and that the cost of doing nothing would be far worse for the owners, he said.
*Its not an investment if you aren't getting some kind of property rights for it, its a gift.
As a Vikes fan - hope they somehow get the funding.
Send them a couple hundred million out of your own pocket.
There's a lot of outrage here in Columbus -- Voters have turned down various arena/stadium tax issues multiple times, but the city is going to go ahead and buy Nationwide Arena from the private owners so they can give a sweetheart deal to the Blue Jackets, who are now dead to me. (The BJs were pretty much dead, anyway.)
As a lifelong Vikes' fan, I can assure you I'd rather have no football team to root for than see those fucking rent-seeking welfare queen Wilfs get a dime of taxpayer money.
(disclaimer - I'm actually part of the fairly sizeable Vikings diaspora, so it wouldn't be my money on the line anyway. But fuck, you gotta be a fucking maroon to want to pay that much tax scratch for such a shitass team).
But fuck, you gotta be a fucking maroon to want to pay that much tax scratch for such a shitass team.
But paying it for a winning team would awesome, right?
How do you think new englanders feel about their god awful ugly Gillete?
We didn't pay for it if I remember correctly. Kraft funded it himself. 100%.
Not for that, but it's worse when the team is 0-4 with yet another miserable old fart at QB.
Not to mention some of those 75% opposed would change their minds if the team were Superbowl-bound.
I might have to become a Redskins fan. Whodathunk in the place where all the rent seekers come for handouts, there would be one of the only non-taxpayer-funded stadia?*
*I'm well aware of taxpayer involvement in the surrounding infrastructure and the reason Cooke built the stadium there was because PG County gave him the ROADZ he wanted. So shut up.
To whom are you telling shut-up?
Why do I ask? See my thread below regarding the Krafts. The way it is couched here is that the people's republic of massachusetts "investment" of 70 million dollars was "just for infrastructure".
Thanks to felon Finneran, the former speaker of the Massachusetts House of Representatives and co-host of a morning drive time talk show, the Krafts were not able to fleece the taxpayers for the entirety of the white elephant.
It was fun seeing that fairly large Vikings diaspora leave Arrowhead Stadium with frowns this past sunday.
Joke handles. Sigh.
Oh, and I see the post was about major league organizations. So never mind.
Show us on the Brett Favre Doll? where the mean Football God touched you, Mini Apple-ist.
Oh. And because I care:
Via Alan Vanneman -- Sherlock Holmes and the Giant Choke Artists of Minneapolis.
Nobody is talking about me, so I thought I'd add this: That Aaron Rodger guy is just OK.
Let's see: I have the same number of rings as you, an equally strong and probably more accurate arm then you, and better decision making skills. I'm on pace to through a comparable number of TDs with probably 2/3 the INTs you threw in your career.
So you can kiss my ass, though I'm much too modest to ever publically compain about the five years of waffling that kept me and my insane talents on the bench.
In fantasy football news some D-bag accused me of cheating when I stupidly dropped a star player.
How shooting myself in the foot is a form of cheating is anyone's guess.
The fun part is that my team played that d-bag last week and I crushed his ass even without my star.
Vanman and a book plug in the same post. A Gillespie trifecta looms on the horizon. I'm not sure what the third element would be exactly, but it would have something to do with leather jackets.
I want a sports car endurance racing team (ALMS or Gran Am).
Pay up.
Why no picture of their newest figurative choker, Donovan McNabb?
There are those who would accuse you of racism for demeaning such a racist piece of shit like McNabb.
The Kraft toadies here in New England will tell you that Gillete Stadium in Foxboro was constructed with no public monies.
There are people who believe it. Incredible, but there are people who will swear by it.
The state of massachusetts poined up about 70 million dollars. The more sophomoric of the Kraft ass kissers will retort, "but that's for infrastructure" as if that is somehow a saving grace.
The Krafts played the we'll leave unless you build us a new stadium extortion game. They signed a deal with the state of Connecticut.
Thanks to former Massachusetts speaker of the house and convicted felon, Tom Finneran, the Krafts were prevented from looting bay state tax-payers for the full tab.
The krafts, through various leaks to friendly media, attempted to depict Finneran as....surpirse, surprise, surpirse, an anti-semite.
That's how the game is played.
I have been to the Big House, the Rose Bowl and the old Schaefer Stadium. All three are far greater fan experiences than Gillette could ever be. The old Schaefer Stadium was built for 6.1 million and opened in 1971. The last game to be played at the old park was the "tuck rule" snow bowl.
STEVE SMITH THINK VIKINGS HAVE PILLAGING DOWN PAT, BUT COULD USE SOME WORK ON RAPING. STEVE SMITH WILL TEACH.
As a Packer fan this makes me laugh and laugh. Can't wait to see the Packers smash the Lions on Thanksgiving.
If Packer arrogance could be made into a liquified, burnable gas, it could power enough McDonalds' restaurants to provide each Packers fan with the 4,000 calories a day he or she needs to maintain his or her pear-shaped figure.
I wouldn't know since I've never set foot in Wisconsin, I just happen to be from that highly populated region of California that has no football team and a shitload of insufferable Raider chollos.
My earliest football memory was a game where Brett Favre through for over 400 yards against said Raiders.
Tell it! I'd put Packers fans in the Top 10 Most Insufferable in All of Sports.
Still, that places them light years ahead of the most insufferable of sports fans, red sox nation and the "In Belichek We Trust" contingent.
agreed.
Oh come on, that's just because you're a Vikings fan.
Cowboys, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, Eagles, Jets, Patriots, Phillies(?), Redskins(?), Cardinals, Cubs.
Packers fans may be insufferable to Vikings fans, because the Vikings have been the Packers' biggest rivalry (possibly tied with the Bears again) over the past 15-20 years. But Packers fans feel the same way about Vikings fans.
"It's tough to do this in a recession," Mondale said. But "if you lose an N.F.L. team, you look like a loser city."
"Mom!"
"What, Zigli?"
"Jeff Lurie and Bob Kraft gave me a wedgie!"
Mondale. Hmm. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, I guess.
I took a shit in Minnesota once.
The only good thing to ever have come from the Vikings being in MN: Denny Green's Rhythm & Wrap-up.
Sigh. I'll take any action anyone here is willing to put up that the Vikes will have a new stadium by Christmas.
It is going to be the same as when the Twins screwed us over. No one wanted that either, but the pols and the Twinks came up with a plan to slide it past the taxpayers.
The stars are looking the same here now. Just last Sunday the local rag ran yet another glowing article about how Ziggy was such a kind and forgiving owner (based on the fact that he was still negotiating with us instead of simply ordering the legislature to pay up).
The problem is that Ziggy hires a bunch of lobbyists who spend all their time harassing the pols while us taxpayers waste all our time by doing stupid things like going to work.
The only hope I can see at this point to thwart the Vikes is that the locals in Ramsey county are trying to insist on their right to vote on the tax deal in a referendum.
The local boosters are upset about the upstarts wanting to vote on the issue. They say that important stuff like this is not supposed to be voted on in a referendum by the unwashed mob. That is why we elect representatives after all.
The only problem with that take is that our elected representatives passed a law (I think because they were actually representing their constituents) requiring that a referendum be held for any deal that calls for an increase in the sales tax. An ex-pol who is an anti-tax, anti-stadium crank has a pretty good takedown of the anti-referendum folk.
Joe Kapp was teh awesome! Guy would hurdle linebackers.
He could also throw a football sideways farther than anyone else I've ever seen.
Maybe because most other quarterbacks learn how to throw a spiral and don't have to throw a knuckleball forward pass.
Hey, if theater fans got the state to pay for the new Guthrie theater why shouldn't football fans get a new stadium?
Ike, so if we waste money on one tax payer boondoggle, we are on the hook for them all?
I'd rather shoot down the Vikes and then tell all the other welfare queens who want state funding "Shoot, we didn't even fund the Vikes and people liked them, why on earth would you think we would give you money for your [insert name of taxpayer boondoggle]?"
Sorry, left off the sarcasm tags.
Maybe the Vikes could try to explain their season as performance art (it would be easier to swallow than the obvious explanation of suckitude) and glom onto some money from the Heritage Fund.
It isn't like that money is being wisely spent.
Don't worry, Los Angeles will build a stadium for the Vikings.