Gun Rights

'I Should Blast You in the Mouth Right Now'

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A reader points out a police dashboard video posted by Ohioans for Concealed Carry that vividly illustrates some of the problems with the state's requirement that people with carry permits "promptly" announce that they have a weapon if they are stopped by a cop. In this case, two officers in Canton pull up behind a car to investigate what they think is solicitation of a prostitute. The driver, William E. Bartlett, repeatedly attempts to notify them that he is legally carrying a handgun, holding out his permit for them to see, and he is repeatedly silenced or interrupted. When Bartlett finally is able to say "I have a CCW," the officer near him, Patrolman Daniel Harless, panics, grabs the gun, and goes off on an extended, adrenaline-fueled, profanity-filled tirade that must be heard to be believed, telling the disarmed, handcuffed man that his failure to promptly report the gun shows he is too stupid and irresponsible to have a CCW permit and would have justified a swiftly administered death penalty:

I should blast you in the mouth right now….I'm close to caving in your head….I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop. And I wouldn't have lost any sleep. Do you understand me? He [his partner] would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you're stupid.

In the most comical moment, Harless expresses doubt that Bartlett, who has been holding out his CCW permit for the officers to see since he was stopped, has a permit at all. He goes scrounging through Bartlett's personal effects and car, looking for the permit, which Bartlett is still holding in his hand as he sits handcuffed in the police cruiser.

According to an update added today, "Canton Police announced Thursday that the officer was relieved of all duties in June following an internal investigation complaint filed in this matter." Even if we assume/pray that Harless is unusually hotheaded, the encounter, which occurred on June 8, shows how difficult it can be to comply with the CCW notification requirement, which is in any event open to interpretation. (How prompt is "prompt"?) Ohioans for Concealed Carry argues that the rule, violation of which can result in arrest and loss of the permit, "has substantial 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment problems."

Since 2000, The Canton Repository reports, the police department's internal affairs unit has investigated 16 complaints against Harless, a former Marine and Ohio native who came to Canton in 1996 after working as a police officer in Virginia for four years. "Obviously," says Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen's Association, "whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident."

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  1. Prompt is drawing the weapon, apparently. How odd.

    What the cop said is actionable, of course. It’s assault.

    1. RELEASE THE BALKOBOTS!

      1. I see the dumbass trolls have been released.

        1. I release my bowels without knowing it!

          1. perhaps you should change your diet 😉

    2. NOTHING HAPPENED.

    3. How can something you say be assault?

      Aggravated harassment, I could see.

      1. Most jurisdictions define putting someone in fear of harm as assault. E.g., pointing a gun at someone or brandishing a machete would be assault even if the harm is not carried out.

        In OH, it’s called “Aggravated menacing.”

        “(A) No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause serious physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person’s unborn, or a member of the other person’s immediate family.”

  2. this officer should be….

    Fired? Jailed? Suspended WITH pay? Allowed to resign and find a job with another PD? Sign up with the TSA?

    1. How about:
      A) lose qualified immunity
      B) now has to pay for own attorney in criminal/civil case regarding violation of civil rights
      C) face criminal charges for menacing
      D) termination without pension

      His partner should face suspension without pay for a few months for failure to intervene when a citizen is threatened by an on-duty LEO.

      That would give pause for thought to the rest of the Department.

      1. Let’s see. The officer:

        1. Threatens to kill the driver. Repeatedly.

        2. Threatens to physically assault the driver. Repeatedly.

        3. Threatens to physically assault the alleged prostitute.

        4. Threatens to pull over the driver every time he sees his car in the future, arrest him and have his car towed.

        5. Files a report falsely accusing the driver of a felony.

        Every one of these is a criminal offense – not just some violation of policy. If he is not charged by the state despite irrefutable video evidence of the crime… well, I won’t be surprised at all.

        1. Higher standards… higher standards.

          1. New Professionalism in action, I tells ya.

        2. Really, the only way I’d ever feel safe again if I were the victim is if the officer was executed.

        3. Technically they weren’t threats, since the officer was saying “I should X” rather than “I’m going to X unless you Y”. But it still meets the bar for aggravated harassment (or whatever the OH equivalent is) probably.

          1. No, the officer told the alleged prostitute that if he saw her again he would put a few lumps on her. Direct threat.

            He told the driver that every time he saw his car in the future he’d pull him over and arrest him and tow his car. Direct threat.

            He told the driver several times that he was about to beat him, was so close to beating him, etc.

            While actually armed with a handgun he asked the driver if he should put the gun to his head right now. He told the driver that he (the officer) should (present tense) put the gun in his mouth and pull the trigger. He told the driver that he should have shot him repeatedly and gotten his partner to testify that it was justified. Taken together this is a fairly credible death threat. Particularly when combined with the promise of future harassment.

            If you were talking about a motorcycle rider who was pissed off at being cut off in traffic making similar statements in a similar tone, all while armed with a handgun, there would be no discussion of minor parsing of phraseology. He would have been charged with making terroristic threats immediately upon arrest. The fact that there was no arrest in this case only underlines the lack of justice.

          2. Tulpa, I walk up to an officer and say, “I’m close to caving in your head….I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop. And I wouldn’t have lost any sleep. Do you understand me?

            What do you think the legal result would be?

            If this officer doesn’t face criminal charges for his actions, it’s prima facie proof that cops are held to lower standards.

            1. I do agree that he should be charged with a crime (apparently aggravated menacing is the term in OH). I’m just quibbling over what’s a threat.

              1. …I felt threatened 2000 miles away just watching the video. How can he not be making threats?

      2. Partner is an accessory to all the other cops crimes.

        1. Yes he is. I will not buy the bullshit about “most cops are good cops” until all these good cops stop covering for their colleagues who they know to be unfit for their jobs.

  3. That video–even on mute–makes me want to ragebreak my computer. This is why I fear any encounter with the police, even over a broken taillight. Who the fuck knows what those fuckers will do? What mood they are in today? I have a gun on me at all times–legally–but what will the pig do if he’s in a bad mood because his girlfriend broke up with him this morning?

    Remember, kids, only the cops know how to handle guns. The proles like you and me don’t.

    1. You are just fucked, what can we say? The LE officer would still get his pension.

    2. It depends. Do you whittle?

      1. I’m not Native American, so I can whittle and probably not get shot by the cops. It’s a risk I’m willing to take.

        1. It’s Injun, you insensitive clod.

          1. Which kind of Injun? This kind (points to dot on forehead and makes goofy sounds) or this kind (does a hey-ya-hey-ya rain dance movement with eagle headdress)?

            1. They’re both not white, so the cops aren’t going to care. Don’t you know America hates brown people?

              1. HEY-A HEY-A ME DO HEAP RAIN DANCE

                1. Is your name truly William Blake??

            2. Injun…dot head…rain dance….

              Stop it man, you’re killin’ me.

              1. Come on, Epi. Mainer is offering you a peace pipe. Assuming he isn’t an Indian giver, I suggest you take it.

                1. The guy who sold me the peace pipe tried to gyp me, but I jewed him down to a good price.

                  1. Stop acting nigger rich and buying flashy things you don’t need.

                  2. But did you welch on payment.

                    1. My wife paid half, it was a dutch treat.

                    2. If my wife paid only half, i’d have to Jap slap her.

            3. Slurpy or casino?

            4. The question becomes more confusing in the Pac NW with all the software engineers and whatnot.

    3. Epi, the audio makes it worse. The motorist’s words, tone, style are saintly.

      1. Right, which is why I muted it, so that I didn’t ragebreak my computer.

      2. My favorite is his pronunciation of the word “permit” he says it “pur-MIT”.

      3. Personally, I could not keep up the “yes sir/no sir” act if this guy was doing this shit to me. The victim in this incident was remarkably composed.

        1. I agree. Although the continual threat of extreme physical violence tends to make one careful.

          I drove through Mexico and was stopped several times by the army; Nothing like chatting it up with a kid with an automatic machine gun which he carelessly swings in your direction once in awhile. At least there I could give them Michael Jackson tapes to build rapport:)

    4. That video makes me want to ragebreak my computer

      Oh Pissy, you always threaten but never act. Get back to us when you finally follow through on one of your violence fantasies.

      1. Episiarch|7.22.11 @ 12:03PM|#

        jh 2jj l1.,/mmmmmn

        *CARRIER LOST*

  4. As usual, we are completely silent on these types of situations. We stand behind Law Enforcement in the name of National Security.

  5. AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED

    1. Beat me to it, sir.

      1. Typical. Wherever-you’re-from lifer says, “Beat me to it, sir,” gets laughed at.

        1. Somebody needs a hug.

        2. The all-caps was a style malfunction. The whole point is that the pussy who posts that shit is passive-aggressive, so you need to tone it down. Just proper case it.

          1. I’m so close to caving in your head right now.

            1. Stop being so passive aggressive.

              1. Typical. You complain about passive-aggression, but you don’t move away from Seattle.

                1. This coming from someone who lives in Ohio. Think before you try to insult me, dude. It’s just too easy.

                  1. I’m just making fun of anonopussy’s latest attempt to insult me. It was adorable.

        3. “Wherever-you’re-from lifer”

          What does that mean?

          1. Anonopussy called me a Cleveland lifer in the morning thread. I thought you were smart, Pip. Jeez.

            1. I love Cleveland. Good city, good people.

          2. Axis of Glib!

    2. I would have been extremely disappointed had someone not posted this.

    3. I think it’s awesome that we have this new funny catchphrase.

      1. Can we still use the tractor pull references ?

        1. Please. Even your meta-reference made me chuckle.

          1. “The tractor successfully pulled the load all the way to the finish line in record time. And Nothing Else Happened. It was awesome.”

            1. The tractor successfully pulled the load all the way down the ROADS!!!1! to the finish line, setting a new record in SOMALIA!!!1!. And Nothing Else Happened. TEH EXTERNALITIES!!!!1! were awesome.

              Did I miss anything?

              1. Did I miss anything?

                “teh childrenz”

                so, minus 5pts.

              2. How soon they forget.

                *sniff, sniff*

              3. How soon they forget.

                *sniff, sniff*

                1. tell me about it.

        2. Whatever happened to the “TRUCK NUTZ!!!” catchphrase given to us by the folks from either Wonkette or Balloon Juice who tried to invade H&R last year?

    4. CATCH-PHRASE PWNED

      1. DOH! PWNED BACK ON ME

        1. DOUBLE SECRET PWNED

  6. This video has been around for a few days. Apparently the Proscecuter tried to get the victim to agree not to sue in return for dropping all charges. He refused.

    Officer shithead is in heap-big trouble.

    http://www.facebook.com/notes/…..1069290829

    1. help for held. Well, it’s a relief that appropriate action will be taken. Suspension WITH pay is really serious, right? The Police Union will be fighting for this upstanding officer — he probably rescued a puppy once.

      1. he probably rescued a puppy once.

        Well, he didn’t shoot it, so, sure.

        1. Maybe he had to save the puppy by shooting the puppy. For the children.

      2. There was probably also at least one day where he just issued traffic tickets.

        And Nothing Else Happened.

    2. Officer shithead is in heap-big trouble

      Welcome to Wal-Mart…like my vest?

      1. BULLSHIT! YOU’RE TOO GODDAMN STUPID TO SHOP HERE! MEN’S DEPARTMENT MY ASS! I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN OUT MY PRICE GUN AND TAGGED YOUR HEAD TEN TIMES!

        1. What??? That’s kind of customer service.

          1. And at the drive thru:
            BULLSHIT! YOU’RE TOO GODDAMN STUPID TO EAT HERE! HAPPY MEAL MY ASS! I SHOULD CAVE IN YOUR GODDAMN HEAD! What sauce would you like?

            1. YOU ARE AN UNFIT MOTHER! CARL’S JR BELIEVES NO CHILD SHOULD GO HUNGRY!

              1. CARL’S JR BELIEVES STEVE SMITH SHOULD RAPE CHILDS MOTHER

    3. Officer shithead is in heap-big trouble.

      I doubt it.
      He will not be convicted of a crime, that is for certain.
      If the victim is given any money it will come from the taxpayers, not the officer.
      Worst case for the cop is he gets some leave with pay, the department lets him go to save face, and he is immediately hired in the next jurisdiction.

    4. “This content is currently unavailable.”

      Anyone have an archived copy?

  7. The officer should have just shot him.
    Dead people don’t sue and shootings are ALWAYS justified.

    1. He went for his piece from inside the car, my partner will swear to it!

    2. “shootings are ALWAYS justified”

      You’ve noticed that, too.

    3. “STOP RESISTING!”

  8. the ol’ Friday nutpunch…

    1. blow to the crotch.

      1. nutpunch/titpunch (same number of syllables and maintains the ‘t’ sound right in front of the ‘punch’)

        1. ouch!

        2. What about teh gheyz? (NTTAWWT)

          Does “buttpunch” work?

          1. It hurts just as bad when they get punched in the nuts.

            1. Don’t be silly. They punch each other in the nuts for fun.

              Or something.

        3. cuntpunch. extra letter, but more vulgar and sounds like a TSA search technique.

          1. I’ll go with that

          2. Cuntpunt.

            Then you still have the same number of letters.

            1. Cuntpunt.

              Nahh! That’s the term you use when you break up with a woman you like screwing but who isn’t worth the effort to hang out with any other time.

    2. the ol’ Friday nutpunch…

      Today, we are all Hormel Chavez.

  9. Fuck da poleese!

  10. I should blast you in the mouth right now….I’m close to caving in your head….I tell you what I should have done. As soon as I saw your gun, I should have taken two steps back, pulled my Glock 40, and just put 10 bullets in your ass and let you drop. And I wouldn’t have lost any sleep. Do you understand me? He [his partner] would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you’re stupid.

    Hey Dunphy are all your fellow cops this chickenshit?

    1. that this one is a clear problem with the cop.

      1. What about all the pre-employment interviews, mental health screenings, scenario based training…you know the important elements of that dickhead Scalias “new professionalism”?

        1. at DHS under the New Guidelines.

        2. The “former Marine” part should have been a dead fucking giveaway. The only Marines I saw leave active duty to become cops were fat, non-productive ones. Or, you got the ones that wanted the pay/benefits/recognition/authority without the responsibilities and RoE attached to it.

        1. https://reason.com/blog/2011/07…..k#comments

          response to Balko Protect and Spoof 7-22-11, 1:34am

      2. yea, its not even a close question. it’s crystal clear. this cop is in the wrong and should be punished.

        per-i-od

        as to your trolling question, i have said, as anybody with a brain would recognize that the screening process is decidedly imperfect. cops go through more screening than job applicants in almost any other profession. it does not therefore follow that people get through who shouldn’t.

        it further doesn’t therefore follow that post-employ screening ensures that officers are good officers.

        clearly, that’s not the case

        1. In case you moved away from the earlier thread, a few questions:

          https://reason.com/blog/2011/07…..nt_2407034

          1. asked and answered…

            1. dunphy|7.22.11 @ 12:57PM|#

              i’m not a retrainer. my point is that IF he has a continued pattern of misconduct, i think this incident could justify firing. if not, retraining.

              How’s this:

              OFFICER’S HISTORY

              Harless, 45, an Ohio native and former Marine worked as a police officer in Virginia for four years before coming to Canton in 1996.

              During his career he has earned several commendations.

              One was from a Virginia judge, who praised the way Harless handled a situation involving a man with a gun, according to records in his city personnel file.

              Canton’s internal affairs unit has investigated 16 complaints involving Harless dating back to 2000.

              He was reprimanded in one 2003 case. Harless and another officer were exonerated of using excessive force, but were given a letter of reprimand for not activating the in-car video camera at the scene per department policy.

              1. ok, so does he have any more sustained complaints other than not activiting his video camera on a scene?

                16 complaints is a LOT. but then, those are complaints. were they bona fide? somebody else has commented that this area is a shithole. ime, people in shitholes are more likely to generate complaints even when the officers do very good work. cops in such areas are more likely to have to use levels of force that piss people off for example.

                but again, this incident is CLEARLY unacceptable and deserving of suspension.

                depending on past history, it’s deserving of firing

                1. If you feel like ansering my other questions from that thread:

                  Do you find KfP’s analysis credible?

                  Kant feel Pietzsche|7.22.11 @ 3:52AM|#

                  Actually, although I do not condone the cop’s behavior in any way, I understand it. He and his partner completely screwed the pooch on this traffic stop. I don’t need to tell you how many procedural mistakes were made. And if he hadn’t been so focused on being intimidating, he would have been more tuned in, and would have realized that the driver was trying to give him a head’s up.

                  But that’s neither here nor there in explaining his reaction. His first inkling that the driver was packing was when he was standing 2 feet away, and saw the driver’s piece.

                  This caused a jolt of adrenalin that would have killed an older man. Then, once the initial jolt wore off, he began to replay the situation, and to think about how casually he had just committed suicide if the driver would have had bad intentions.

                  This cause an overwhelming sick fear, which he tried in vain to subdue by raging. That’s why he went off repeatedly. The feeling kept overwhelming him. And he kept taking it out on the poor dumb schmuck.

                  Now, as I said, he gets no pass from me. He’s supposed to be able to maintain his professionality and judgement under stress. If he can’t, he has no business being in a position of authority and having lethal force at his disposal. And he didn’t. In fact, he totally lost his shit.

                  And what, if any, compensation do you think the victim deserves for having been deliberately, systematically terrorized under color of law?

                  I’m disappointed that you propose a solution to so lethal a problem without a single hint as to what your proposed solution would consist in.

                  Can you see how that leaves our incredulity unaddressed?

                  1. “His first inkling that the driver was packing was when he was standing 2 feet away, and saw the driver’s piece. This caused a jolt of adrenalin that would have killed an older man.”

                    If this is a person’s default reaction when encountering an armed citizen, then that person should never be placed in a position of power, particularly if that position required him to carry a gun.

                2. 16 complaints is a LOT. but then, those are complaints. were they bona fide?

                  Let me guess – the department conducted an internal ‘investigation’ and determined ‘procedures were followed’? Shocking, I know.

                  1. you can be sarcastic all you want, but complaint =/= bona fide complaint.

                    officers get discipliend and/or fired all the fucking times due to complaints

                    but if you are assuming that complaints, especially in a high crime area (which another poster pointed) out means bona fide complaints, then you are just assuming guilt w/o evidence.

                    many complaints are either not sustained (insufficient evidence) or exonerated.

                    many complaints are also complete horseshit fabrications

                    1. many complaints are either not sustained (insufficient evidence) or exonerated.

                      No offense, but I would find this much more credible were the police not investigating themselves. Too much “Yup, we looked into it, and determined we did not fuck up.”

                    2. “officers get discipliend and/or fired all the fucking times due to complaints”

                      Citation please
                      CB

                3. Dunphy – re: “this place is a shit hole”

                  As an officer you probably recognize that the best of the best don’t stay in the shit hole for long. Perhaps there is a reason that this guy is still pulling night duty in hell’s kitchen after all these years?

                4. “16 complaints is a LOT. but then, those are complaints. were they bona fide? somebody else has commented that this area is a shithole. ime, people in shitholes are more likely to generate complaints even when the officers do very good work.”

                  And you’d be wrong.

                  I live in one of those shithole (people shot dead on my block) and let me tell you, the last thing any of my neighbors want to do is complain about a cop who has hasseled them. They’re just not that stupid. I’ve seen cops egging on pepole in hopes that they will react poorly in order to provide a reason to crack their heads.

                  Never met a cop who wasn’t a egotistiacal asscunt. Never.

            2. “Retraining”?!??! He threatens murder, he threatens assault, he threatens retalitory policing, files false report. FUCKING RETRAINING? Absolute bullshit. Fired. Never work in law enforcement again. Criminal charges. Civil action. I stay away from the Dunphy hate fests since you seem moderately reasonable most of the time (and I mostly lurk, so staying away is par for the course), but if you’re reaction to that video is ‘retraining’ (regardless of history – which you’ll see is pretty poor as well), then you have, to put it generously, a twisted view of the proper relation between law enforcement and the people they police.
              -K

              1. I stay away from the Dunphy hate fests….

                C’mon…hate fests…comment thread noogie fests at best.

              2. I have to agree with Karl on this, dunphy. He threatened to kill someone who did nothing wrong.

                He is dangerously aggressive. If this doesn’t make you immediately go “this guy should never have power, ever, and should be fired immediately”, then you really are way too immersed in cop culture, because it means you don’t immediately say that.

                1. i think ABSENT past similar incidents, a 2 week firing is reasonable (drink!)

                  if that makes me a cop apologist in yer eyes, so be it.

                  that’s about the harshest punishment short of firing there is.

                  and i certainly think the guy should get a civil payout from the PD.

                  1. “i think ABSENT past similar incidents, a 2 week firing is reasonable”

                    Well, I guess we’ll disagree on that. A person who does what we see on that video *once* should never be allowed anywhere near a position that gives a legal monopoly on the use of force. Never. It’s part of that whole ‘higher standard’ we always hear about. I also think he should face criminal charges. If you were on a call and saw exactly that sort of behavior from some one (and they were armed and able to carry out their threats), what would you do? Let them go? I have a suspicion that you would arrest them and that they would be charged. At the *very least* the exact same thing should happen to this guy. Personally, I think that even more-so since he is a police officer and given incredible power over other people who have little recourse in their dealings with him. To keep someone with that demonstrated lack of control and lack of understanding of what his role is near the kind of power police have is dangerous – to the cities budget, to the reputation of law enforcement amongst the general population, and, most importantly, to the people the police are presumably sworn to ‘serve and protect’.
                    -K

                  2. Two weeks?!? Dude, that does make you a cop apologist. I’ve tried to give you the benefit of the doubt recently, as you seem like a relatively decent dude, but fuck you. If a security guard threatened to fucking kill someone, would you advocate a “2 week firing”?

                    There is no excuse–none–for that pig’s behavior. None, not in any universe. He should be fired, criminally charged, and prosecuted. To advocate anything less is beyond absurd.

                    1. fine, then we can agree to disagree. we are talking words here. if he has past similar incidents, he should be fired. if not, strong suspension

                    2. No, we are not ‘talking words’ here. We are talking about a fundamental difference in how one views abuse of power. I would like to know what your reaction would be to an identical situation except one side of the altercation was not wearing a uniform.
                      -K

                    3. i’ve dealt with similar situations, and commented on them

                      contrary to popular belief, cops (at least not where i work) do not routinely arrest (except in DV cases, where it’s often mandatory) for smack talk threats.

                      i gave an example a week or two ago of a neighbor complaint where a drunk asshole neighbor climbed halfway up a fence and screamed at the 16 yr old that he was going to “fucking kill you”.

                      the family ended up getting a protective order. no arrest or charges.

                      i think the cop was absolutely in the wrong here and should get substantial discipline, but IF he has no prior such incidents, i think firing is too much

                      that’s my opinion

                    4. i gave an example a week or two ago of a neighbor complaint where a drunk asshole neighbor climbed halfway up a fence and screamed at the 16 yr old that he was going to “fucking kill you”.

                      the family ended up getting a protective order. no arrest or charges.

                      Did the drunk asshole neighbor have Glock .40 strapped to his waist? Would that have changed the situation?

                      Nevermind that exactly that kind of “smack talk threat” is what disqualifies this guy from the job. There’s no room for that kind of mentality in a police officer. “Smack talk threat” making where it’s clearly not part of the work (eg. an interrogation) is exactly what police officers can not allow themselves. Otherwise, you’re going to lose the trust and support of the general population. It’s already happened in minority populations where they’ve seen the abuse up close for longer as well as amongst those of us with a philosophical interest in the topic. As it becomes accepted behavior amongst police (as I think is evidenced by your reaction – training and suspension is not an appropriate response to the unprovoked threatening of violence against a person your purportedly serving and protecting) and, coupled with more transparency via the ubiquity of cameras and the like, more apparent to the general population, you will lose them. And that won’t be pretty for anybody.
                      -K

                    5. i agree. it’s completely unacceptable which is why he should be punished and the guy should get a payout for the PD

                      but if this guy has a good record as a cop, i don’t think it justifies canning his entire career.

                      a suspension would hit him hard, and it would mean ANY further transgression (at lesat in the next two years) means he gets fired.

                      i think that’s REASONable. you may not

                    6. but if this guy has a good record as a cop, i don’t think it justifies canning his entire career.

                      For me, you really jumped the shark today.

                    7. dunphy lost me today.

                      His proposals look like the overhead a bad cop would pay in order to stay bad.

                      I fail to see why this should be acceptable.

                    8. Remember that the cop began searching the back seat before he even addressed all the occupants of the car. What right did he have to enter that guy’s car?

                      If the driver HAD been a bad guy, that cop would have been dead from the beginning. Then where would the police and the community be?

                      This cop should arguably be canned just because he endangered his own life and therefore the image of the police department.

                      The guy was so intent on roughing up the girl that he became a menace to himself and his badge.

                    9. PS. Can the citizens of Ohio get a protective order against this officer?
                      That translates as firing.

                    10. we are talking words here. if he has past similar incidents, he should be fired.

                      Words from an openly armed man about how he would conspire to murder another person for, to quote the officer “being stupid.”

                      Tell me dunphy, when did stupidity become a crime?

                    11. we are talking words here.

                      So I take it that an order from a cop to exit a vehicle, pull over, put up one’s hands, disperse or stop are “just words”, right? Then any cop using force against someone who doesn’t obey those words would be guilty of various felonies, right?

                      Because, obviously, if I ordered someone in line at Starbucks to “put up their hands”, and then shot them when they didn’t comply, I’d be ordered to re-training, right?

                      Or is there something to the term “under color of authority”?

                      You simultaneously want the authority to control and the avoidance of the responsibility such control demands. Too bad – we’re not buying it.

                  3. Really? Shit, I hope if I threaten to murder someone in front of a cop, they threaten me with nothing harsher than firing. So, you really believe that officers are above the law as soon as they put on their uniform, huh?

                    1. Dunphy –
                      I can’t go with you on the “reprimand and suspension” idea. I would agree that if they want to maintain his employment after he faces criminal charges, that’s their call. But there’s no way in hell he should ever be on patrol again. He’s clearly demonstrated that he cannot be trusted with this kind of power.

                      This wasn’t just about the guy losing his cool. I would agree that an officer could have a bad day and make mistakes and not lose his career. But the context of his threats was such that it didn’t seem to be an exception for him. He started his investigation improperly and with disregard for the rights of the people involved. If an isolated incident, that could be addressed via additional training and supervision.

                      But the fact that he threatened several people with assault in a way that suggested that this was normal activity for him pushes past that point. Given that info I’d look at those past incidents that were excused in a different light. Particularly the assault that was excused, but he got a reprimand for having the camera off. If you believe the exoneration on that one, I’ve got a bridge you might be interested in buying.

                      But this guy went even further than that in the current case. By issuing death threats that were pretty credible and clearly not being in control of his faculties he shows me that he shouldn’t be armed in public.

                      By persisting with false charges against the driver he’s shown me that he’s unreliable as a witness and cannot be trusted to file accurate reports. If he’s OK to work with otherwise, I’d say he belongs in the back office, shuffling papers. Or maybe issuing parking tickets – if he’s not armed and not authorized to do more than call for backup should something happen.

                    2. I’ll add in that I have a couple of close friends who work internal affairs. Their stories about cases are very similar to your stories about bad-guy losers that you didn’t arrest.

                      They have a lot of cases where the officer in question is an idiot and a bad officer and everyone involved knows it. But they have to have an actual IAD investigation in order to fire them. Many times they stake the guy out for a while and get some evidence that he’s a douche, but not enough to prove that he should be fired… so they end up shuffling him to another job. They seem to operate on a similar burden of proof to a criminal proceeding – the bar is pretty high.

                      In a normal job the bar is not nearly that high. For most people if your boss is pissed off because you screwed up an assignment and he wants to fire you, well… that’s it. You are fired. He doesn’t even have to be right (unless you can make some appeal to protected class membership).

                      So I’m not at all impressed by the “but how many of the complaints were confirmed by the department” argument. I will agree that more information is needed to provide proper context. If he got 12 complaints from a single incident at a house party, that would be useful information. The fact that his own department came down on his side is not very comforting to the average reader here though. We’ve seen way, way, way too many incidents where officers obviously acted improperly but they were completely exonerated.

                      Just look at the St. Bernard shooting from the last few days for an example of this. Just an absolutely indefensible action by an officer that was not just supported by his chain of command, but was supported in a cavalier and offhand manner – ‘oh, we see lots of vicious animals’. I’m sure getting a complaint against you is no fun for an honorable officer, but the truth is that unless the department doesn’t want you around, there’s very little chance that such an investigation is going to go against you.

                  4. If I threatened to kill YOU, would you be satisfied if I received a “a 2 week firing”?

                    CB

                  5. I’ve been with ya’ dunphy so far. Cool and reasonable under a lot of internet fire. But here we have real evidence of criminal actions. I do this shit I get charged. He’s doing it with a loaded gun to a guy in handcuffs. I rant like this at fellow employee (never mind a customer (ie citizen). I get canned (and I should be). And the partner’s an accessory.

              3. And you wander why I hate this piece of pig shit that Ma Dunphy shat out after a bad night of the cramps and Hershey squirts.

        2. What about his partner?

          I dont see how he keeps his job.

          1. Agreed. That blue line gets crossed mighty quick when a pension’s involved.

        3. . cops go through more screening than job applicants in almost any other profession

          I always like jobs with “highlhy scientific” screening processes. We have one where I work.

          We always take pleasure when pointing out a really bad employee: And to think, he passed the screening process!

          1. i didn’t say they were “highly scientific”. we are talking human behavior. anybody who claims pschology is a science needs their head examined… :l

            at least in agencies i work for we go through multiple pscyh screens, extensive background checks (they interviewed my high school teachers and a few college profs), polygraph , etc.

            1. I didn’t suggest you were– although it might have looked that way.

              No, I was merely making a tangental comment about the beloved screening processes HR departments put their employees through, most of which are snake oil.

              1. that i can agree with. the MMPI is a fucking joke, but then i had read almost of the DSM prior to taking it, so i knew exactly why each question was being asked, and the idea that it’s “scientific” is laughable and.or the claim that “people can’t beat it” hahahahahahaha!

                1. How many applicants are guided though the screening process by vets?

    2. We believe in conditioning the citizens to accept this type of treatment from anyone in the government. Homeland Security and Public Safety. We will support Law Enforcement in all cases.

    3. WTF is so cool about Glock .40s that LEOs feel the need to name drop? I mean, I like the .40 as a load, but who cares what your pistol is chambered in when you’re threatening to shoot someone. Same with the brand. I’m not more intimidated by Glock over Taurus when someone is threatening to shoot me.

      1. …with the gangster set. Oh, what did I just say?!

      2. As the proud owner of three glocks, I have to agree with the cop on this one.

        Sometimes I stand at the mirror and say, “You talkin to me?… (pause) You talkin to me? (pause) Cause I’m the only one here with a GLOCK FUKIN 40, dude”.

      3. I hate Glocks. Not because they’re not a good gun…because they are ugly as shit.

        1. Ugly maybe…. but comfortable! Shooting my Glock 21 is like shooting a Lazy Boy recliner…..ahhhhhh!

          1. Ugly maybe…. but comfortable! Shooting my Glock 21 is like shooting a Lazy Boy recliner…..ahhhhhh!

            Seconded – I love my Glock 21, easy to shoot, it seems like I can’t miss with it.

            1. Stay tuned for humorous gun chat:

              Put laser grips on wifes Ruger SP-101 and found out what it is like to have the flichies! Like a Vegas light show I swear!

              (Hangs head in shame)

            2. So easy to shoot, it sometimes goes off by itself!

              *ducks*

              1. Not as long as you exercise proper trigger discipline.

                1. A lot of cops carry glocks.

                  A lot of cops don’t exercise proper trigger discipline.

                  Therefore, it’s more dangerous to be near a cop than to be a cop.

                  1. BUT NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED!

                    I have a Glock – LOVE it. It is FUGLY, but the sumbitch runs anything, all day, no faults, shoots straight…what’s not to like? Nothing…

                  2. “A lot of cops don’t exercise proper trigger discipline.”

                    Those discharges were all negligent, not ‘accidental’.

          2. And shooting my H&K USP .45 is like shooting a clock radio. Ergonomically, my favorite pistol is my SIG P226 in 9mm; it’s like they designed the grip from a plaster cast of my closed hand. Perfection, I tell you!

        2. They are ugly, I will grant you that. But they work like a fucking sewing machine. When you are in a shooting match, for fun or for real, you want a gun that goes bang when you tell it to.

          1. ^^^ My Glock 19 just doesnt jam. They are simple and reliable and extremely tough guns. Plus if your carry gun is stolen or taken into evidence it’s not like you have lost a $2000 1911.

            1. +1. Plus 1911s are the opposite of all those things.

              1. Ferrari v. Honda. Each one has its place.

                Add to that Glocks were 15 years ahead of their time — 20 years ago. There’s a lot of polymer guns that can hang with a Glock on function today.

                1. “There’s a lot of polymer guns that can hang with a Glock on function today.”

                  Like the M&P.

        3. I’m betting you’re a Sig guy, Epi.

          1. Kel-Tec and CZ, actually. I like my guns light and cheap or heavy and expensive.

          2. Sig 2021 with .40 and .45 barrels.

      4. Glock sounds like cock.
        And Taurus just isn’t as intimidating.
        “pulled my Taurus” just doesn’t have a nice ring to it.
        “You pulled your star sign? I thought you guys drove Crown Vics.”
        Glock just sounds better.

        1. Sounds just fine to me. “I’ll pull my Taurus on you. F*&k with the bull, get the horns, whoo-boy! It’ll cave your head in!”

          1. could work in Texas maybe, but Ohio?

  11. Notify requirements are a trap, they usually are completely up to the officer for what is too long.

    1. ….too long motherfucker! Dead meat!

    2. Isn’t that the point?

    3. If I were in that situation I would just scream “Concealed Carry!” over and over until the officer hit me with something.

      I actually don’t own a gun and hope I never feel the need to. I understand it can be very useful at times, but I keep reading stories like this…

  12. The “officer” just keeps digging himself in deeper and deeper. It’s as if he was laboring under the delusion that the video would make him a hero on some reality show.

    1. Perhaps he was counting on a retroactive camera malfunction.

      1. Naw. One of his 16 IA-investigated complaints resulted in a reprimand for failing to activate the dashboard camera. (Shockingly, he was being investigated in that case for use of excessive force.)

        Smart enough to know he wouldn’t get away with the same “mistake” twice, I guess.

        1. So he’s just a sociopath with a badge and gun. Nice.

          1. Correction – He’s a sociopath with a gun that the state has failed repeatedly to remove from a position of authority.

            I can’t see how the state isn’t seriously liable.

            1. I can’t see how the state isn’t seriously liable.

              Sovereign immunity, bitchez!

  13. Does anyone in the “Law Enforcement Community” want to remind me again why I should tear up and bite my lower lip when cops get let go due to budget cuts?

    As far as I’m concerned you can all fucking go….keep the firefighters!!

    1. “Does anyone in the “Law Enforcement Community” want to remind me again why I should tear up and bite my lower lip when cops catch a few rounds of JHP?”

      FIFY
      And you can get rid of the firemen too. People will stand in line to be volunteers.

      1. Uh, a lot of fire and rescue services in the US are already provided by volunteers, Asswipe. And you have to go through the same training and certification as a professional.

        Fuck you very much.

        1. Wasnt that his point? We can fire all the pro firemen and fill them with volunteers, we already know the model works.

          1. Wasnt that his point?

            Yes, but sometimes it’s fun to attack people.

            1. Ooh, just like Nancy Grace on TV! We can all yell at each other for being stupid while agreeing loudly! Fun!

              1. Who is this Nancy Grace person you speak of?

      2. Police officer in video is a sociopath, so all police officers are sociopaths? And here I thought Libertarianism rejected collectivist thinking.

        1. Police officer in video is a sociopath, so all police officers are sociopaths?

          No, but then again this particular sociopath seems to have quite a track record.

          People aren’t complaining that cops aren’t perfect, they’re complaining that the system protects the sociopaths.

          1. Does anyone in the “Law Enforcement Community” want to remind me again why I should tear up and bite my lower lip when cops catch a few rounds of JHP

            This is the post I was responding to. I agree that it is incredibly frustrating when the system seems to protect LEOs who break the law, violate citizen’s rights, etc. My point is saying “fuck it, just kill all the police” is also not productive in advancing the cause of changing the system to punish more bad cops.

            1. My point is saying “fuck it, just kill all the police” is also not productive in advancing the cause of changing the system to punish more bad cops.

              I’m not actually worried that the citizens will rise up and kill all the cops, because actually killing someone is just a bit harder than typing on the internet.

              However, the sentiment does serve a useful purpose. It alerts those paying attention that more and more citizens view the current state of government power as completely unacceptable, rather than something that just needs a tweak.

              The opinion “just kill all the police” isn’t actually a call to murder – it’s a call to completely rework the criminal justice system because that system is absolutely beyond repair.

              It seems (without doing a full dissertation) that systems most often change when large numbers of people take on the real life application of such an opinion. (See: Egypt, Beirut, Libya and Syria) The rarity in human existence is an actual correction by those in power. (See Morocco)

              There wouldn’t be a middle east spring without a “kill them all” sentiment.

              1. Or El General:

                MARGARET WARNER: So, in that sense, it’s really counter to our image of where rage and rebellion — what rage and rebellion is about in the Arab world. It’s not, you’re saying, just directed even at the West or even their own regimes.

                ROBIN WRIGHT: No, I think one of the extraordinary things is that it is the most proactive in terms of trying to define a different future, to take back the idea of what is jihad, that is the struggle to be a good Muslim, not to kill the outside world, not to be engaged in the Arab-Israeli conflict. It’s really to craft a different future.

                MARGARET WARNER: Let’s go now to some of your fabulous examples from young people in the Muslim world.

                And the first I would like to talk about is the Tunisian hip-hop artist whose name is El General. That’s the name he gave himself. And you say he really set the stage for the Jasmine Revolution that ousted President Ben Ali.

                ROBIN WRIGHT: Well, hip-hop has become the rhythm of the resistance, and he was the first. He posted a song last November at a time that hip-hop was basically banned in Tunisia on his Facebook page. And it captured the first real challenge at a time that politicians don’t — didn’t dare criticize the regime.

                MARGARET WARNER: I think we have a short clip from YouTube. Let’s just play a little.

                (MUSIC)

                MARGARET WARNER: So, what kind of thing was he saying?

                ROBIN WRIGHT: Well, he said to the president: We’re suffering like dogs, half the people living in shame, misery everywhere. People are eating from garbage cans. Today, I’m speaking for the people crushed by the weight of injustice.

                It’s that kind of challenge that just wasn’t found anyplace in Tunisia and in most other parts of the Arab world.

                MARGARET WARNER: And I think you wrote that this really became almost an anthem to revolution, not only in Tunisia, but elsewhere.

                ROBIN WRIGHT: It was sung by many of the protesters across Tunisia as the revolution spread and then picked up in places from mighty Egypt to tiny Bahrain.

                http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..07-21.html

                1. BTW, this Newshour clip shows us that Obama and Robert Mugabe are political brothers:

                  http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..07-21.html

        2. The people that enable sociopaths (his partner, his union, his superiors) are culpable for their behavior. That doesn’t mean all cops are responsible, but it does mean that the institutional backbone of copdom is.

          1. Correct, which is why Dunphy attempts to distract by pointing to the Legislature.

            The Legislature is indeed part of the problem, but the idea that the “institutional backbone” are mindless automatons is laughable. Their failures of self-correction are at least an equal part.

    2. I’m still waiting for them to remind me why I shouldn’t get pissed at the amount of public money and time they waste on their funerals.

      Four cops got shot by some crazy-assed nigg–I mean oppressed, disadvantaged racial minority member–two years ago in my area. They weren’t shot in the line of duty; they were shot while drinking lattes at a coffee joint. I swear, security guards from office parks in Nevada even came up to Washington to join the funereal “motorcade” that jammed traffic for miles. There were speeches, weepy songs, and a cast of tens of thousands of law enforcement and emergency service personnel from all over the country, all on company time and using company vehicles for the wallow.

      Cop and firefighter funerals are full-on festivals for authority fetishists. They are intolerably maudlin, over-the-top wastes of public resources.

      AFAIC if they’ve got money for fetishizing cop deaths to the extent that they do, they’re not laying cops off because of any particular hardship.

      1. In Maryland a few months ago, a state trooper got hit by a car on the side of I-95. The funeral for him shut down half of the Baltimore Beltway for hours. There were over 100 police vehicles parked between I-83 South and North on the inner loop, from all over the area.

        You really ask yourself if that’s a good use of public resources, and a good reason to delay thousands of people (and probably waste millions in productivity) who are just trying to go through life.

        1. you should ask the public. they are the ones paying. polling shows the public are very supportive of police in general, and as far as i can tell, supportive of police funerals as practiced

          1. you should ask the public.

            The “public” that is so relentlessly propagandized with “Officer Friendly” nonsense that they’ve lost the ability to judge properly instances such as these.

            1. ah, this reasonmyth AGAIN.

              if you think the media propagandizes cops as “officer friendly” when practically every other episode of cop shows (law and order etc.) deals with some crooked cop case, when any # of movies, teevee shows does the same (see: training day etc.) you are living in a fantasy world.

              this is one of those memes that is completely divergent from reality.

              most people have interactions with police at some point (traffic stops, crime reports, etc.). the idea that the media is a bunch of cop fellators is so absurd, but it’s repeated constantly here

              1. if you think the media propagandizes cops as “officer friendly” when practically every other episode of cop shows (law and order etc.) deals with some crooked cop case

                Oh, come off it, dunphy. Your apologism is getting out of control. Face it: there’s a ton of media out there glorifying the police and asserting that they can do no wrong. If a cop is shown “doing wrong”, it’s something like being a drug dealer or a contract killer; warrantless searches and unnecessary violence aren’t even considered noteworthy – hell, they’re shown as admirable and par for the course.

                1. your claims of apologism are absurd. you see the media portrayal of cops much like a leftist see its portrayals of “corporashuns”. every other teevee show etc. has an evul ceo or corporate executive as the story and big business is often evil but to leftists, the media is a bunch of corporation fellators

                  to you, you see the same thing with cops when it’s clearly not the case.

                  i could make an analogy to media portrayals of attorneys . some are fiercely honest crusaders for justice. others are lying, cheating fucksticks.

                  1. I would say that on cop shows a common theme is the “good guy” cops are generally trying to figure out how to get around rules and stuff in order to get the “bad guys”. I suppose that we look the other way because most of the time on those shows we “know” that the bad guys are bad… rights or not, we know for sure that guy molested that child or shot that teenager in that bodega robbery so whatever it takes to put him away is OK.

              2. if you think the media propagandizes cops as “officer friendly” when practically every other episode of cop shows (law and order etc.) deals with some crooked cop case, when any # of movies, teevee shows does the same (see: training day etc.) you are living in a fantasy world.

                I just have to point out a distinction. Training Day wasn’t just about crooked cops (and there were a lot of them in that movie), it was about an entire crooked system perpetuated by the drug war. Alonzo was the poster boy for the drug warrior gone rogue, however, he had plenty of assistance from his superiors and department brothers (The Three Wise Men). Even the “good” cop, Jake, ends the film by stealing the $1 million in drug money from Alonzo, letting the Russian hitmen kill him, then going home, apparently $1 million richer.

      2. Cop and firefighter funerals are full-on festivals for authority fetishists. They are intolerably maudlin, over-the-top wastes of public resources.

        An assault on the king’s men is an assault on the king himself.

        1. exdept apart from some people here, and some hardcore leftists, MOST people see the cops are not representatives of “the king” (or being THE MAN(tm)) but as representatives of them – the average joe, fighting for them against criminals.

          that’s how many people see us, reasonoids and leftists aside

          1. As up thread, not for long, if you guys keep it up.
            -K

            1. not really. because it isn’t YOU GUYS. there are SOME bad cops. most (normal) people realize it’s just that. SOME cops.

              it’s like indicting all the people of one race or gender for the acts of some.

              1. it’s like indicting all the people of one race or gender for the acts of some.

                Excellent analogy, except that you have it wrong.

                It’s like pointing out that groups of people tend to develop a bunker mentality towards “outsiders”, with the representative view that they must all stick together lest said “outsiders” destroy what they view as their “culture”.

                When loyalty to the group overrides loyalty to the society in general, you see behavior that values group membership above societal function, and consequently punishes members of the group who hold different views – thereby actually threatening not only societal function, but the function of said group.

                This behavior will not change until it threatens the existence of the group in general. Usually the result is a small sacrifice of a few scapegoats (quite often those who attempted to challenge the group membership) to placate the ‘outsiders’ that the threat has passed.

              2. I agreed until the G20 Toronto police state. NO COPS came forward to help with the investigation into abuses there. NONE. That entire department is corrupt. It’s best to judge PDs collectively.

          2. exdept apart from some people here, and some hardcore leftists, MOST people see the cops are not representatives of “the king” (or being THE MAN(tm)) but as representatives of them – the average joe, fighting for them against criminals.

            that’s how many people see us, reasonoids and leftists aside

            Maybe white suburbia, where they have very few interactions with police. For the black and latino populations, I think not.

            1. THIS^^^

              (assuming it lands properly)

          3. Cops are a group. Like all groups, they represent themselves first, and society second.

          4. Must…not…snark…but…appeal…to…the…masses…fallacy…too…tempting…

            People also believe to serve and protect is real standard, instead of outright propaganda. But we know that’s true, right dunphy?

            We have now sunk to a depth at which re-statement of the obvious is the duty of intelligent men.

            1. But we know that’s NOT true, right dunphy?

              Forgive us our DERPS as we forgive those who DERP against us.

  14. All cops should be steroid tested.

    1. I think roid rage is a myth, for whatever it’s worth.

      1. a media controlled myth. it’s fascinating the way some reasonoids cling to CERTAIN media myths, even anti-drug ones, when it suits their metanarrative.

        noted also that high androgenic (all AAS have varying levels of androgenicity vs. anabolism, hence the name) AAS are more likely to increase aggressiveness, though e.g. methyl-test or halotestin, etc.

        i train with a lot of athletes who “back in the day” used AAS btw.

    2. Adrenaline monitoring.

      1. “Bullied as a child, always picked last for the team with a huge chip on my shoulder” monitoring.

        1. that technology is still decades away from FDA approval.

          1. Ipad app! Try and stay on top of the technology!

    3. Steroids don’t actually cause aggression; do your research. But power does.

      1. Steroids don’t actually cause aggression; do your research. But power does.

        Exactly!! The research shows that the vast majority of users never experience “roid rage” and that the aggressive behaviour tends to coalesce around cultural scenarios that promote and reward aggressive behaviour (contact sports, etc.).

        But for the ignorant public, steroids equals rampaging killer.

      2. You sure about that? The study results don’t seem conclusive either way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A…..ic_effects

        Also, you’re assuming the meathead is taking them properly, and not overdoing in to try to speed up muscle gains.

        Then again, I’d be willing to bet that self-absorbed jerks are much more likely to try steroids.

      1. the idea of ‘roid rage’ may come from cortico-steroids (e.g., Prednisone), rather than anabolic steroids. Cortico-steroids are well known to cause bad moods and irritability.

        1. I should get ahold of some Dianabol to make my back hairier. It’s far too smooth as is.

          1. She can’t simply embrace You? She has to have hair handles?

          2. And the oil. Babes love a greasy guy.

        2. I never wanted to punch anyone’s face in when I took them (this was in the 80’s, much of these substances weren’t classified under a schedule ban) back in my High School years, but I played an aggressive game of baseball. Some guys were natural psychos, and I have no doubt the steroids made them worse. I had to stop due to headaches caused by increased light sensitivity. I had that problem as a grade school kid with light senstivity, also, but grew out of it. It was as if the steroids were causing symptoms to reoccur after nearly a decade of dormancy.

        3. they are also much more likely with highly androgenic, rarely used AAS such as halotestin or methyl-test.

          i train with a substantial # of athletes who used AAS back in the day (and coaches who did) – i am talking olympic members, etc.

          the media myths surrounding AAS are about as “robust” as those surrounding cocaine during the height of the crack epidemic.

          ironic that some reasonoids should fall for anti-drug propaganda

          1. I’ve always tried to frame my argument as such, Senator McCain, if these substances are as bad as you say they are, then why are you going after a harmless segment of society instead of those who actually have a great deal of civic responsibility?

            Sorry if it wasn’t always clearly spelled out which is why I think Warty gave a gentle reprimand.

    4. “That settles it, Officer. From now on you’re getting only decaffeinated coffee!”

    5. True story–I applied to be a Philadelphia cop once. We were pulled into a room so that detectives could explain how to fill out the background check paperwork (which was a thick booklet). There’s a portion where you have to list any contact with illegal drug use. One cop wanna-be says

      “What about steroids? I take those because i heard they’re not illegal.”

      Detective says: “If you didn’t get them from a doctor, they’re illegal.”

      “No, that can’t be right, because I take those! I do, i take them!”

      Detectives smirked to each other. I later heard that the Philly Detectives make a couple arrests a year from nimrods like this who apply for the police force.

  15. So, if failing to notify is a crime, wouldn’t failing to notify be self-incrimination? That would go for Caylee’s law too, I think.

  16. Here’s a funny one on the same subject. Texas still requires you to notify the cops if you have a CHL and are carrying, but they got rid of all the penalties for not doing so. A lot of people I know are of the mind that no penalty means the notification provision is practically unenforceable, and therefore, the cops don’t need to be told. I tend towards the idea that telling anyone you’re carrying is usually a bad idea, but I’m mildly uncomfortable just because it may go worse for you if you don’t tell the cop and things get to the frisk stage. Opinions?

    1. Opinions?

      I’m gonna go with “never leave the house”.

    2. I would notify. If he/she doesn’t like the speed at which you do it, it’s unenforceable, as you say. But if he/she frisks you for whatever crazy reason and finds it, he/she will go apeshit on you and use it as an excuse to arrest you. That will not be fun.

      1. my state has no requirement to notify. ime, people very frequently do (i can’t tell you what %age since if they don’t you rarely realize they are carrying)

        happened just the other day, got got in a collision and when i was talking to him he mentioned immediately that he was carrying. the only thing i advised him was that IF he was going to be taken to the hospital, he should advise the medics and they would probably want him to secure it before going to the hospital

        notifying the cop you are carrying is a courtesy. i think people should do it, but in my state, it is entirely a choice

        1. Would you say that it is better or worse to notify? Will the cop take it as a courtesy or will it make him/her edgy? I am always carrying, and if I get pulled over, I’m not sure what I want to do. This is of course a Washington specific question. Also, it should be an SPD-related question too.

          1. i think it’s to your benefit to do so.

            heck, i know cops that are supportive of CCW that if they pulled you over for an infraction and you were a CCW’er, they might be less likely to carry

            seattle is a city that is storngly anti-RKBA. their mayors, police chiefs, etc. have done everything to try to override state law (recall mayor nickels’ executive order to ban guns from parks, etc.), but i think even in that enviro, you are better off.

            i could be wrong. i don’t work for SPD. i know their administration bows to the seattle libs, who hate RKBA.

          2. The only time a pistol isn’t on my person is in the shower. That being said, Alabama is not a must notify state. The seemingly common practice in my area is to hand the cop the ccw permit with license when asked for the driver’s license. It is a courtesy thing. It is usually followed by “are you carrying now? where is the weapon?” I have only heard of one case where the officer politely disarmed the person. The rest of the time the notification was met with either a thank you or not really giving a shit.

            Personally I prefer to let the nice officer know as soon as I can. That way there are no surprises. We don’t seem to have any cops here that are out of control as the self affirmed target in the video so being pulled over/stopping at a license check is usually not unpleasant.

            1. i think this is good advice.

  17. Typical H&R over-reaction to a police officer executing his duty in a professional manner…

    Everyone knows that 99.9999999999% of police officers never do anything unprofessional, and if they did, their partners would immediately report them and they would be immediately fired and punished in civil courts, because the Police do the best job Policing themselves… I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve reported my fellow officers for misconduct… And WE NEVER, EVER, EVER MANIPULATE OVERTIME TO MILK THE TAXPAYER FOR EXTRA MONEY. Where people got this idea is beyond me…

    1. Wait a minute, something doesn’t seem right here.

    2. We don’t need to sockpuppet dunphy. His responses are usually ridiculous enough without help.

      1. Actually, I don’t think anyone is capable of doing dunphy responses justice with sockpuppetry.

        1. Libertarians never stoop to sockpuppetry.

        2. yawn. this cop is clearly in the wrong. dunphy sockpuppets aside in all their childish glory.

          when a cop is wrong, he’s wrong. i’ve commented on lots of cops who were wrong, and/or criminally wrong e.g. paul schene.

          this cop was wrong and deserves punishment.

          1. deserves punishment

            Care to elaborate?

            Felony charges?
            Fired?
            Suspension without pay?

            What level of punishment?

            And same question for his partner who didnt arrest him.

            1. i think IF he had significant past misconduct, especially of this type, he should clearly be fired.

              otherwise, a 2 week suspension seems adequate.

              at least where i work that’s about $3200 dollar fine.

              it also makes one ineligible for any # of assignments for 2 years.

              and puts you on probation where if another such incident happens, you get canned pretty much automatically

              1. Actually I think they’d be doing him a favor by firing him. I get the impression this guy has a high chance of doing something fatally stupid.

          2. Did you see his partner rushing in to calm the situation down?

            And do you think anything besides some paid time-off is going to happen?

          3. this cop was wrong and deserves punishment.

            Yes, you have no idea how difficult it is to get that waiter to deliver the second mai tai.

    3. 1/10. Used 2 too many 9s.

      1. Capital letters–that’s the giveaway.

      2. Nahh…from other threads it seems Dunphy is big on signiifcant digits. Let him have it!

        Say hello to my little friend: 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

        Okay now I’m bored.

    4. I don’t believe this is Dunphy. He may be biased, but not completely bankrupt.

    5. Really? I know people give Dunphy a fair amount of shit around here but I’ve found most of his posts to be pretty reasonable. Did I come late to the game and miss a bunch of cop-apologist posts?

      1. no. i challenge anybody to repeat one “cop apologist” post i have made.

        i loathe police misconduct and dirty cops.

        however, unlike many reason igorati i do not assume cops are guilty on thin to no evidence.

        THIS case is not even close. the cop was wrong and should be punished. that’s the same conclusion i have come to on many cop misconduct cases and/or cops committing crime cases, e.g. paul schene

        1. What about his partner. He should be fired (if not charged as an accessory) for failing to arrest his partner.

        2. i challenge anybody to repeat one “cop apologist” post i have made.

          Here ya go:

          i think IF he had significant past misconduct, especially of this type, he should clearly be fired.

          otherwise, a 2 week suspension seems adequate.

          You think a 2 week suspension for a felony is okay?

          1. which felony?

            and if you are talking about threats stuff, i don’t want to get into a long wank about “true threats” under case law (i’ve done it before, and not regarding cops), but as i have repeatedly explained – threats aren’t that simple

            like the case i mentioned a few weeks ago where a neighbor climbed ona fence and threatened to kill the juvenile

            no charges. they ended up getting a protective order

            1. I dont see how this threat isnt that simple. Maybe he gets to plead down to a misdemeanor, but I dont see a grand jury not indicting for a felony if the DA pushes it. Ham sandwiches and all.

              Looking at Ohio statutes, he can easily be charged with Aggravated Menacing, which is a 4th degree felony.

              1. like i said, with “true threats” it is not that simple, but i think there is an argument for a misdemeanor harassment (my state’s “threat” law) citation against the cop.

                that shouldn’t be an automatic firing offense, but i wouldn’t think it an injustice if the cop was criminally cited for the threat, considering the extent of them and the manner, etc..

                1. that shouldn’t be an automatic firing offense

                  WTF?

                  Really…WHAT THE FUCK!!!

                  How can misdemeanor harassment not be auto-fire? Its proof of fundamental inability to handle the job.

              2. like i said, with “true threats” it is not that simple, but i think there is an argument for a misdemeanor harassment (my state’s “threat” law) citation against the cop.

                that shouldn’t be an automatic firing offense, but i wouldn’t think it an injustice if the cop was criminally cited for the threat, considering the extent of them and the manner, etc..

              3. 4th degree felony in Ohio: 6-18 months and up to $5000 fine.

                1. robc, i make this point ad nauseum (and not just in regards to cops) but it never seems to get through

                  there is the law, and there are filing standards

                  technically under the RCW, ANY “threat to kill” is a felony.

                  in practice, threats to kill are very rarely prosecuted as felonies.

                  true threats law etc. is more complex than that.

                  most threats to kill are blown off as smack talk OR cited as misdemeanors

                  i gave an example a couple of weeks ago and the guy was just some drunk asshole neighbor.

                  1. I understand. This seems like a clear cut case to max file to me. Of course, you understand my “all sentences against govt workers who commit crime as part of their job should be trebled” argument too.

                    So, really, I want to see 18-54 months, and up to $15k fine.

                    I think 12 months, $3200 (your number) makes sense. But I would then want it to be trebled to 36/9600. Alas, the latter is still waiting on the legislature to get their act together. Of course, since it would apply to them, I may be waiting a long, long time.

                    1. oh also. robc for a first offense, i will bet you (if you check sentencing records), probation would be par for the course for the felony.

                      the idea that somebody would get jail (let alone prison) for a first offense of smack talk threats with no priors is inconsistent with reality

                    2. somebody

                      We arent talking about a somebody. We are talking about a government employee granted exception powers.

                      With greater powers comes greater responsibility (and greater punishments).

                  2. most threats to kill are blown off as smack talk OR cited as misdemeanors

                    And rightly so. In this case, that doesnt apply.

                    1. robc, i guess we are just going to disagree. this cop should be publically shamed (he will be) suspended, and the guy should get a nice hefty payout from the PD. assuming this cop has no history of such behavior, i think that’s sufficient.

                      if he does, fire his ass

                    2. nice hefty payout from the PD

                      Payout should be coming from the cop. You know, as a lien on his paycheck from whatever job he can get as a felon after he gets out of a jail.

            2. At one point, he was promising to fuck with this dude forever under color of law. That seems like it must be a fairly serious crime, doesn’t it?

              1. That seems like it must be a fairly serious crime, doesn’t it?

                Even if it isnt a crime, that seems like an immediate firing offense that no cop would oppose.

        3. “no. i challenge anybody to repeat one “cop apologist” post i have made.”

          When asked, you told us in no uncertain terms that you have never seen a fellow officer break the law.

          SUCK ON THIS SHIT, ASSCUNT PIG:

          https://reason.com/blog/2011/01…..nt_2071673

          1. That’s not an apology, Pip, that’s a blanket apology.

      2. Did I come late to the game and miss a bunch of cop-apologist posts?

        Yes.

    6. This is fucking stupid even if it wasn’t such a failure of a spoof. dunphy has made it clear that he thinks that this cop was completely in the wrong and should be punished.

      1. But not too much. We have the guy’s career to think about.

  18. If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about we might shoot you for fun.

  19. “Obviously,” says Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen’s Association, “whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident.”

    Did he spout this bullshit with a straight face? Unbelievable.

    1. Obviously I meant that each video has its own unique personality. Now I must get back to transpiring.

  20. I like how failure to secure the scene isn’t his fault.

    We probably need to give these fellas a break, it isn’t like they are experts in properly securing a scene.

  21. It’s pretty obvious that Bartlett had his gun perpendicular to the highway.

    1. So, using the right-hand rule, the cop was clearly being assaulted by lorentz forces emanating from the concealed weapon.

  22. It’s also interesting that the “blacked out” cops roll right through a stop sign @ 1:10.

    1. Even the little laws are only for little people.

  23. Do I want to actually watch that video or will it cause my heart to explode due to HBP (not normally a problem)?

    1. I had too much caffeine this morning, I’m not risking it.

      1. I read the comments on the article instead. Surprisely, only a minority supported the cop and those were handled well.

    2. People who want to watch that video are fucking stupid idiots who should not be walking around in society!

    3. I doubt you’ll get far enough through the video for your heart to explode. I drop-kicked my monitor long before I was in the danger zone…

  24. The idea of an internal investigation makes no sense on it’s face. Where else in life would the general public accept this ? Imagine a business telling the IRS that an internal investigation had revealed no violations of the tax laws. Yet people accept the absurdity of the police saying, yeah we checked into that guy that got killed, and it’s OK.

    Are there any places in the US where the police are subject to an EXTERNAL investigation, say by a citizens oversight council or something ? That at least would provide some objectivity.

    1. this would make sense if an internal investigation was all that happened.

      the reality is that there are several levels of investigation that happen in most incidents, and deadly force, use of force etc. incidents often have 4 or more different investigations

      for example, in the BART shooting here
      http://policelink.monster.com/…..deo?page=2

      there are 4 different concurrent investigations going on…

  25. To the best of my knowledge, there has not been a single incident in the United States where a person with a CCW permit has ever assaulted, let alone killed a Police Officer during a traffic stop.

    1. Quit your bullshit lying or you’re doing felony time!

    2. It’s the precautionary principle.

      I, the legislator, assert that something might possibly happen.
      Now the burden of proof is on you to prove that it won’t happen.

      If you fail to prove a negative then I am right and therefor we need a law.

    3. That, and the fact that there shouldn’t even be permits. Thanks a bunch, government.

    4. good cops know that people with CCW’s are statistically speaking – immensely a “good risk” iow very unlikely to commit crime, let alone assault officers.

      there ARE exceptions e.g. monfort, but exceedingly rare (iirc monfort had a CCW and a clean record, almost unheard of for a cop killer)

  26. Funny thing, I don’t think I would lose any sleep after pumping 10 rounds in him. But I would use a Glock 22 since Glock doesn’t make a 40 model Mr. Gangster cop.

      1. Why lose sleep over the loss of a government official willing to advocate killing a citizen on a whim because he’s angry.

        1. No, I was ummming the Glock doesnt make a .40 comment.

          1. There is no model 40 glock. Model 22, 23, and uh two others come in .40. There is no such thing as a Glock Model 40…

            Notice no “.” before my 40. Semantics, I know, but an educated gun owner should pay attention to detail.

            1. The cop also never said “model”. Full Internet Smartgai Fail.

              1. Exactly. When someone says “Glock forty”, they mean Glock .40, not Glock Model 40.

            2. . arent pronounced. Are you really picking on the transcription?

        2. The Glock 22 fires a 40-cal, retard.

    1. He probably meant Glock .40, not Glock 40.

      1. I know what he meant. Just something that bothers me when supposed professional firearms handlers use that term. It is a Glock 23 .40 caliber hand gun. Not a glock 40.

        1. […]professional firearms handlers[…]

          There’s your problem, right there.

      2. Glock .40 is pronounced “Glock forty”, the . is silent.

        The cop, for all his felony threatening, got that right. I dont know why hmm is picking on the transcriber.

        1. He should’ve specified Glock 40 cal. Wouldve avoided this whole debate.

        2. that’s kind of par for the course for hmm. he can’t admit error, no matter how stupid

          look at his failure , to this date, to ever admit his claim that cops are ‘firearms experts’ was simply ridiculous and easily verifiable as wrong.

          some people are constitutionally incapable/unwilling to ever admit error on the internet. it leads to absurdities.

        3. that’s kind of par for the course for hmm. he can’t admit error, no matter how stupid

          look at his failure , to this date, to ever admit his claim that cops are ‘firearms experts’ was simply ridiculous and easily verifiable as wrong.

          some people are constitutionally incapable/unwilling to ever admit error on the internet. it leads to absurdities.

          1. Depends what level of expertise. Cops have had more firearms training than I have had and Ive had more than the average person.

            I know enough to never put my finger on the trigger except to then pull, which all cops have also been trained on, which is why there are no accidental shootings [I stand behind this — every single cop shooting is intentional — they have had the training].

            1. Got off track. Cops are firearms experts, at a certain level.

              There are obviously people with much more expertise though.

              1. there is no “certain level”. expert is a word that means something.

                the idea that (the average cop) somebody who fires 50 rounds through their gun once a year and once in the academy took a 40 hrs firearms familiarization course is an expert is laughable

                i am an instructor for fuck’s sake, with immensely more training and skillz than the average cop. and *i* am far from a firearms expert.

                1. expert is a word that means something.

                  Yes it means something, but it is always relative.

                  I dont think you can define “expertise” in any way but a continuum.

  27. Nothing will happen this animal, this piece of human refuse.

    He’s a union man. Case closed.

    1. right. because officers are never punished, fired and.or criminally prosecuted (rolls eyes)

  28. You guys are being too hard on Dunphy. He is a quite reasonable guy; libertarians need reasonable cops on the beat. He hates the WOD as much as anybody here, so his L credentials satisfy me.

    1. He is a quite reasonable guy

      “drink!”?

    2. Yeah….at least he seems to give a shit! It’s a start!

    3. He doesn’t hate the WOD enough to find a job where he doesn’t have to help enforce it, now does he?

      1. If he wanted to enforce the laws against murder and burglary, he would have had to agree to enforce drug laws, too.

        If people who thought like him were too pure to join the police, then the police forces would be monopolized by those who felt that a crusade against bad chemical habits was at least as important as catching killers and thieves.

        Why not have police who *prefer* to spend their time hunting down violent criminals?

        1. ^THIS

      2. Admittedly, a cop does have significant amounts of discretion on simple drug possession enforcement. I’d be willing to wager that if dunphy busts a couple of high school kids smoking a bowl in the park, he’d probably let them off the hook if they seem altogether wholesome otherwise (although he might break the pipe and dump the sack).

        1. a surprising # of cops do this. maybe i’m lucky to live in a state where most cops i know really don’t give a flying fuck about simple MJ possession cases

          1. When I was a freshman in college, I got busted smoking weed in the dorm. The dorm called the police, the deputy explained to me that because the dorm called it in, he was required to write the 11357-B citation.

            A month later, when I went to court for the case, I was informed by the clerk that they had no record of such a citation being issued. I knew that he tore it up the second he left.

            I sometimes give the entire police establishment shit because of guys like the one in this video, but I know deep down that there are a lot of decent people on the force. I may not agree with all of the things they do or even support, but I know that there are good and bad in every profession. The only issue with the bad cops is they have so much fucking license to be evil.

          2. I knew a girl in high school who got pulled over with a couple friends. The cops found a 1/4 oz. in the car. It was shaken out onto the ground, and they got a warning…

            1. and note that SOME agencies will discipline officers for doing this shit. that makes a big difference. if a cop-o-crat administrator tells a cop he risks his career for giving warnings for MJ, that’s fucked up, but it’s true with some PC agencies run by morons.

              bellevue PD comes to mind

      3. I give him a hard time, and I would stop if he had the guts to join LEAP.

        He won’t though. In fact, dunphy seems to absent himself whenever LEAP comes up. Guess he does not care enough to lobby against the WOD

        1. i would have no problem joining LEAP. have i got around to it yet? no.

          i did “like” their facebook page at least. so, anybody who has access to my page (a metric assload of cops) knows I “like” LEAP

          1. Have you ever gotten shit about that? I’ve read about cops beings hassled and even fired for being a member of LEAP or publicly supporting them.

          2. Have you ever gotten any shit about that, either from peers or brass? I’ve read about cops being harassed or even fired for being members of LEAP or publicly supporting them.

            1. no. cops i work with know i think the WOD is misguided, and i think the war on MJ is absolutely absurd.

              a LOT of cops i work with feel the same way.

              one of my sgt’s told me the other day he thinks MJ is pretty benign and we shouldn’t be wasting our time with it, and he thinks the legislature (note the theme) should get off their ass and change it.

              1. Has he or you gone to the state house and made this very clear to the proper committee?

                If cops did to the Washington state capital what Tenn income tax protesters did to their capital, MJ would be legal within a week.

                1. i think that’s a pipe dream. the legislature has made it crystal clear that they don’t care what we think.

                  imo, it’s almost certainly going to come via citizen initiative.

                  much like prop 200

                  1. You know about the Tenn situation right? I think two reps had heart attacks and one died during the tax protests.

                    It was intense.

                    Committees had trouble meeting the noise outside the building was so loud.

                    1. i didn’t know about that.

                    2. As protesters began to gather outside the legislative chambers Monday evening, several legislators were taken away by ambulance and hospitalized for blood pressure and heart problems as tensions rose and tempers flared. By Tuesday morning, tax protesters were brandishing signs reading, “Let’s send them all to the ER!”

                      Im still looking for a link to one of them dying.

                    3. You know about the Tenn situation right? I think two reps had heart attacks and one died during the tax protests.

                      Now THAT is a good start.

                    4. I am completely unfamiliar with the “Tenn situation”. What are the protestors protesting?

    4. I would rather have more cops like Dunphy than Harless

      1. Sure: except for the fact that he wastes a lot of energy defending all the shitty ones.

        1. really? give me an actual example.

          i don’t defend the bad cops. i am at least as critical of bad cops as any rational (emphasis) poster here

    5. it’s nice to know that there are others who agree with me about dunphy. it is a mistake on this board to automatically antagonize good cops simply because they are cops. in the final analysis, we need cops so we might as well have good ones.

      1. I think there’s a significant minority here who would disagree with your assertion that we need cops (as currently constituted). A free market in law enforcement would make these assholes more responsive to the consumers (you and I). As it stands, they have almost no incentive whatsoever to treat us mundanes like actual human beings.

        1. they have SIGNIFICANT INCENTIVE. treating people like human beings makes the job much easier and more pleasant… minimal to no complaints, minimal to no discipline, more pleasant interactions with people, less chance of being assaulted, etc.

          1. Beyond that, I find that a lot of people that come across law enforcement have a bad experience in part because the enter with an antagonistic attitude. Sometimes, its conditioned from prior interactions. But all in all, I still believe that if you are decent to someone, they’ll be civil back to you.

            Although, the guy in this video does shoot that fucking thesis in the head.

            1. right. there are exceptions. but i speak as a guy who was proned out at gunpoint as a robbery suspect, that the ONLY time (and no it wasn’t the robbery incident) i was ever treated disrespectfully by a cop was when i was first disrespectful towards him. and as a guy who played in a very loud band, i had plenty of interaction

              i made a snide comment to the cop and he came right back with one.

              lesson learned.

              1. Tell that to the Ranger (that’s the name of the city, not a Texas Ranger) patrolman who pulled me over on a highway at 3:00 a.m. and put me over the hood and cuffed me when I hadn’t said a word to him except for, “What is the trouble, sir?”

                I’m not lying, not making it up. I said one sentence, and was ordered out of my car and cuffed while he ran my plates, and in the end, just gave me a speeding ticket. I was thinking the whole time that it must have been some mistaken identity thing (maybe my car was mistaken for one that had been stolen). He never gave me any explanation, and when I asked for one, was told to “Get out of here and get on your way, I cuffed you for my safety, and that’s all you need to know” (or something close to that effect; it’s been some years now).

                It’s that kind of attitude towards us untermensch that makes so many people hate cops. Not all, but there are certainly all too many of them that view the citizenry as some kind of horde or rabble that has to be kept under control, and they act accordingly. From that day forward, I have always cooperated, but never smiled, made small talk, or done anything except the minimum necessary to comply with orders. Fuck them.

                *sidenote: I did get some revenge. I was given a ticket for something which I knew was not a crime (door-to-door solicitation), and took it to court. Cops were on camera telling me they knew the law, and this was definitely illegal. I had a printed-out copy of the city statute showing where it was not, but they crumpled it up and handed it back to me, telling me that since it was printed off the internet, that wasn’t the actual law. The judge dismissed it and actually reprimanded the cops in front of me (they showed up to defend the ticket). One of the happiest days of my life.

                1. 1) very few people hate cops and polling repeatedly shows we are amongst the most respected of any profession in society

                  2) it sounds like that cop was a complete asshole and IF he just did that shit “because” he deserves substantial penalty

                  1. 1) Polls are next to meaningless, as we all know. I hate that Reason has started using them so heavily (those Reason-Rupe polls).

                    2) I’ve had about 6 or 7 professional, perfectly acceptable encounters with the police, and two bad ones (mentioned above). I’ve found the small-town ones give me tickets way more than the city types, but I was always speeding, so I can’t complain; I knew the risks and took them. Sometimes you just come up snake-eyes. I know that a majority of officers are normal, professional people, just doing their jobs.

                    3) The fact that, despite LEO assertions to the contrary, there does seem to be a minority who behave in such a fashion (enough that there are frequent news stories about such), is a problem. I personally don’t believe in the idea that putting on a badge makes someone a superior form of human being. So even if it’s only something like 1 out of 20 cops who are authoritarian dipshits, that’s still unacceptable. I don’t blame the individual people…people are people, and some are assholes for no reason. Same as in any profession. However, I do disagree with the existence of an institution which essentially exalts them above the normal citizenry, and gives them the opportunity to act in ways that a normal person would be arrested for, or at least sued for assault.

                    Cops shouldn’t have extra-constitutional rights. I know they may not technically, but in reality, that’s how it works. As long as that’s the case, I’ll oppose the institution at every turn.

                    My personal solution would be for privatization. That failing, I think citizen oversight boards would be a (small) upgrade over the current system, for reviewing contested actions, such as shootings, etc.

                    1. what LEO assertions to the contrary? i’ve repeatedly stated there are a minority of cops who act like total fucksticks and shouldn’t be cops.

                      i think the public, if anybody, exalts us. most people recognize they could never do our job, let alone as well as we do it. that’s reality.

                      being a decent cop is very hard. being an excellent cop is extraordinarily hard.

                      it really does take a lot of special skillz, patience, ability to think on one’s feet, multitasking, etc.

                      you can oppose the institution if you want. i think it’s an exceptionally noble career and i loathe bad cops who sully it

                    2. it really does take a lot of special skillz, patience, ability to think on one’s feet, multitasking, etc.

                      Getting rid of the IQ cap might be a good start.

                    3. i would agree. i purposefully answered a few questions wrong on stanford binet for that exact reason.

                      people with high IQ (+120) are predicted to be less likely ot “get along” more likely to become bored and quit (thus wasting training dollars) , more difficult to supervise, etc.

                    4. 120 is the cutoff? Really?

                      I ask because my IQ is about 180 or higher, and apparently the difference of intelligence between myself and the smartest police officer is greater than the difference between that police officer and a great ape.*

                      * Excepting those officers who purposely missed a few questions, of course.

                  2. I’m with Jim on this, dunphy. I have also had very negative interactions with the police, even though I am always 100% polite (because I know that being antagonistic gains me nothing). It’s not that all cops are going to do that to you–I have had many perfectly polite interactions with cops–but it’s the fact that you just don’t know. This random stop because your brake light is out could become a nightmare, solely based on the officer’s whim. Even a normally pleasant officer could be having a really bad day or something.

                    Cops have far too much power. Power corrupts; that is the human condition. Therefore, I cannot trust any cop, because they are human and have too much power. I don’t want to interact with one, ever.

                    1. and that’s fine. your experience is different than mine. maybe i was lucky and you weren’t

                      i can just say that, even proned out at gunpoint, the cops were cool

                      the one time they were a dick, i had been a dick first

                    2. what LEO assertions to the contrary? i’ve repeatedly stated there are a minority of cops who act like total fucksticks and shouldn’t be cops.

                      Don’t be obtuse. You know damn well plenty of the “thin blue line” crowd defend their own no matter what, and will only, in the most extreme examples, admit any wrong-doing on the part of a badge brother.

                      being a decent cop is very hard. being an excellent cop is extraordinarily hard.

                      I absolutely believe this is true. Which is why there are fucksticks out there making people’s lives miserable.

                      most people recognize they could never do our job, let alone as well as we do it. that’s reality.

                      it really does take a lot of special skillz, patience, ability to think on one’s feet, multitasking, etc.

                      I’m calling bullshit on this. I applied to 3 different departments when I very first got out of the army (about 7 years ago) and before I was ever a libertarian. Always aced the tests, but was beaten out by people with much more LEO experience (always lots of applicants, and I had no real experience in that field).

                      Half my family are cops, including the chief of police of Harrisburg, Illinois, and the entire SWAT team for that city (very small town in southern Illinois). I can provide names if you don’t believe me; I really have nothing to hide there. My brother-in-law is a cop. Several of the dudes who were in the national guard with me were cops (in Lubbock, TX).

                      Anyway, point being, I know plenty of cops. And half the ones I know, even in my family, are dumbasses. None of them have a degree (NTTAWWT). None of them had any “special skills”. Shit, my family is hillbilly as can possibly be. The only “skills” they had prior to joining law enforcement were welfare application skills. In fact, there’s not a single one of them I know with any “special skills”. I had to teach one of the Lubbock ones how to connect to the internet (in 2004!) If my brain-dead, drunken family members can be cops, along with some of the hick retards I went to high school with, then no, I do not believe that it is in fact as challenging as you’re making it out to be.

                    3. Jim, now that I know you’re a redneck, I’m going to call you Jimbo, and so will Warty, because he always copies me.

                    4. I accept this.

                      Born and raised in souther Illinois and western Kentucky, then moved to Lubbock, TX. I’m amazed I’m not married to my sister.

                    5. How do you know–for a fact–you aren’t married to your sister? I mean, Luke almost did it with Leia. Remember, Jim: there is another Skywalker…

                    6. Well, there is the racial difference, for one, my wife being Chinese and all. I suppose it’s possible she’s my half-sister, and we just each got all of one parent’s genes.

                    7. Being a Kentucky boy myself, I am confused? I thought you had to have the governor’s permission to marry outside the family

                    8. I’m not married to my sister.

                      Maybe you’re not trying hard enough.

                    9. Oh, and +1 for getting a gratuitous dig in at Warty.

                    10. It’s a fair cop.

    6. FUCK HIS LYING PIG ASS.

    7. Let me add that I have had several bad experiences with cops as well, and unprovoked, so I know for a fact that some are complete assholes. On top of that, I agree with Epi, I avoid cops to the best of my ability, but I still think that most cops are decent people. I wish the PDs would make a greater effort to get rid of the assholes. I also wish the honchos in the PDs would end the no-knock raid bullshit.

      Most of my venom is directed at legislators, they are the ones responsible for the laws that divide us.

      1. Agreed, but also venom directed at the media that makes it living off of selling fear, and at the public that laps it up.

  29. Fuck the Po-lice, no justice no peace, got me, face down in the middle of the street…

  30. I think the cop is so fucked up because he obviously didn’t handle the situation correctly. He (or his partner) is rummaging around the back seat without securing the driver, never even noticed the driver. If he had wanted to kill the cop, he could have a milllion times. So, it was partly his own incompetence that put him in jepordy.

    But I think the guy could have spoken sooner.

    This guy seems like the perfect candidate to be a cop, likes to push people around and tell people what the fuck they’re doing whether they are or not. I’m hoping he doesn’t have any kids, I”m pretty sure they’d be in for a lifetime of abuse.

    1. Well, of course, despite what the law says, the cops have no business investigating “prostitution”.

      “Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn’t selling fucking legal?!”

      1. Having sex with random strangers is only permissible under the law if you film the act and sell the film in order to earn a living. Oh, and you must be paid by a company, rather than paying your partner directly.

        Paying someone directly to have sex with you privately, without an audience, is an unconscionable affront to God and decency. As is sex itself and most of the human body. Amirite?

    2. “I think the cop is so fucked up because he obviously didn’t handle the situation correctly.”

      I think he was just mad about the LBJ administration.

      1. or his donut didn’t have enough jelly in it.

    3. This happens a lot in my experience (and not just with cops, with anyone in a position of authority)… authority person screws up and puts themselves or others in danger, then lashes out at the nearest convenient person they have authority over so as to convince themselves they weren’t in the wrong.

  31. The good thing for me is that I used to be a gym junky, and I’m also a little too tall to fuck with physically like that. On the other hand, it might be preferable for a cop to beat you up and stick you in the back of a cruiser than to realize you’re too big to handle and just draw his gun at you.

    Either way, I’ve dealt with cops like that before, on two separate occasions.

    With the first one, I was basically able to tell him to go fuck a duck and die after he stopped sticking his finger in my face and lecturing me about how obvious the fact that I’m a really shitty driver was, probably because he was short, calm, alone, and I didn’t yell.

    The second time, only two years ago, I had to endure a torrent of profanity and discourteous remarks, but I wasn’t assaulted.

    If there were justice in the world, this fucking totalitarian sack of street-patrolling shit would be permanently barred from public service of any sort.

    Small-town cops west of me, my aunt and uncle’s town, are much better; I wear my gun externally most of the time, and I’ve never even been asked about it, except the one time during a traffic stop a cop wanted to know if it was an original 1911A1.

    1. For all their bad reputation for being Roscoe Coltranes, I’ve found that podunk cops are far nicer than city cops. It must come from ruining fewer lives.

      1. You forgot the P!

      2. +1. In podunk areas where there is more space between people, there is a more of a mind-your-own-business vibe, and the police there seem to go along with that.

      3. I’ve had the exact opposite experience. Despite being stopped quite a bit (usually for speeding), I’ve only ever gotten rude behavior once from city cops.

        Small-town types, on the other hand, have issued me every single ticket I’ve ever received (excepting that one incident mentioned above), and twice had me out face-down on the hood for no reason that I could discern (was only stopped for speeding).

        In Texas, the small-town ones are far, far worse, in my personal experience.

        1. I have no experience with rural area cops other than a speeding ticket in the Central Valley. But I’ve found city cops to be generally easier to deal with than suburb cops. In the burbs, I am the greatest threat they can imagine. But when I’m in L.A., I’m not dressed like a thug and I have the white thing working in my favor.

      4. Yeah – being a small town guy, I think this is true.

        The sheriff pulled me over a couple weeks ago (The Sheriff, not a deputy) while I was being very illegal on the Ninja.

        “You know how fast you were going?” “No[teh troof]” “Well, neither do I. I didn’t have the radar on. Slow it down. By the way, I’m BB, the Sheriff.” “Oh, I know. I’ve seen your name. I’ll watch myself – thanks, Bob.” “Be safe.” “Thanks.”

        Small town and all that. He didn’t even threaten me with a ticket – was my lucky day,

        AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED.

        /derp

        1. You were lucky…you got Andy! Next time it might be Barney!

        2. It might’ve been different with a deputy. The sheriff knows that he swings the biggest cock at the station, so he doesn’t feel the inferiority complex and need to fuck with the general public.

        3. that;s a nice story, but if he did ticket you, that’s not exactly an example of a bad cop. a cop treating you respectfully but also ticketing you for violating the law is not the “awesome experience” ™ but it’s hardly an example of “bad cop”

          1. I got pulled over on the I-5 for speeding on my way back from Tahoe a couple years back. It was night, and I know a thing or two, so the second I got pulled over I turned on the dome light and put my hands in clear view on the steering wheel. The CHP deputy was impressed and even asked if I had a dad or other relative in LE. I should’ve bullshitted and said yes, might’ve gotten me out of the ticket. Instead, I was honest and the dude wrote me up for speeding.

            1. CHP are (ime) the height of professionalism, although certainly they will write tickets. they are highway cops, for fuck’s sake.

              one of the reasons i sought a career in law enforcement was some very positive interactions with CHP. they are great ambassadors for law enforcement

          2. Derpfy, did I say it was a “bad cop” experience? No, dumbass. It was a “surprisingly pleasant cop experience”. Relating to the “are small town cops nicer?” theorem posed above.

            Go fuck yourself and get some reading comprehension lessons while you’re at it, you fucking pig apologist fuckstick.

            And have a nice day!

      5. I should clarify – I was interpreting podunk=rural, which is usually county deputies where I am.

        City cops, whether small town or big city, or almost universally shit.

        The state police are the worst. I am seriously afraid of those guys.

        1. The state police are the worst. I am seriously afraid of those guys.

          My experience may be unusual, but here in New Jersey every encounter I’ve had with the state police they’ve been courteous and professional.

        2. The Massachussetts state police are the fucking worst. They have total domination over all other police in the state–including Boston PD–and know it, and act accordingly. Connecticut State Police, on the other hand, aren’t too bad because many towns don’t even have police so the staties have to do that. Which means small towns have basically no police presence at all. Which I have to say I love.

      6. That sure has not been my experience in small towns in Oregon. Blinker light out, color on one panel slightly different than on the other, changing lanes too soon after a turn. They will pull you over for anything in Silverton or Turner OR.

      7. Cops (mostly rural) have generally treated me well, but I’m sure it helps that I’m white, have a non-threatening demeanor, and it’s obvious to everyone that I’m well-educated the moment I open my mouth. (I can’t help it.)

        And I don’t hate cops, excepting those who are clearly jerks – but I’ve also seen cops leap to conclusions where they shouldn’t, vigorously enforce terrible laws, and generally act badly. I know most of them aren’t bad, but they still make me nervous – because I don’t necessarily know which sort of cop I’m dealing with.

        I suspect that the bad cops cause a great deal more crime than they prevent, because once the public stops respecting the Law, they stop respecting laws.

      8. Cops (mostly rural) have generally treated me well, but I’m sure it helps that I’m white, have a non-threatening demeanor, and it’s obvious to everyone that I’m well-educated the moment I open my mouth. (I can’t help it.)

        And I don’t hate cops, excepting those who are clearly jerks – but I’ve also seen cops leap to conclusions where they shouldn’t, vigorously enforce terrible laws, and generally act badly. I know most of them aren’t bad, but they still make me nervous – because I don’t necessarily know which sort of cop I’m dealing with.

        I suspect that the bad cops cause a great deal more crime than they prevent, because once the public stops respecting the Law, they stop respecting laws.

        1. Cool! I made the double post!

    2. I know for sure you don’t live in my state.
      While the state constitution says “the right to keep and bear arms shall not be questioned” (or something similar, I’m going by memory), and open carry is perfectly legal, doing so will result in your being questioned, searched, run for warrants, questioned some more, and finally taken in for disturbing the peace with your piece being confiscated.

      1. In my state, that only happens in about 3 cities (2 largest and 1 in metro Cincy).

        The rest of the state, open carry is just fine.

      2. North Carolina. You?

        1. That’s another reason I want to move south. Besides the snow.

          1. Oh, don’t worry — North Carolina is the same as Maine in that they’ve both got really convoluted laws, exceptions to those laws, and too many laws. Check out NC’s gun purchase and carry requirements.

            South Carolina’s even worse.

            NC’s a good state, but it’s galaxies away from what I’d call just or truly free, and the northeast is just fucking Hell to me in that regard, as is California.

            I want to move to Arizona, or New Hampshire.

            1. NH is nice. But the Massholes keep moving in and ruining things. That and the property taxes are unreal. They have a view tax. Look it up. They add to your property taxes if you have a nice view. On the other hand their capital buildings don’t have air conditioning which forces them to keep their sessions short, meaning they don’t make as many laws. And I think they only get paid a hundred bucks a year or something, so there’s not much incentive to make it a career.

              1. Yeah, New Hampshire’s got a shitload of exceptions to its generally freedom-friendly environment, which people don’t realize, but it’s still one of the best states. Any picks for best?

  32. What???

    No “Another Isolated Insident” post???

  33. I’m gonna rewrite the lyrics to that Metallica song to say,

    And Nothing Else
    Happened…

    1. Gotcha covered Almanian:

      Too late, no matter how soon
      I should drop you with my glock .40 like a fucking goon,
      In High School I was sodomized with a broom
      and nothing else happened

      Never suspended without pay
      Life is ours, you do what we say
      I harrass minorities and the gays
      and nothing else happened

      Power I seek, and I find in this
      Every day we beat up people just because we’re pissed
      I use a nightstick because I have a weak fist
      and nothing else happened

      never cared for what they do
      never cared for what they know
      but I know

      Everything you do is illegal, no matter how legit
      I’ll shoot your dog for being a little barking shit,
      And we have all the evidence we need if we need to plant it,
      and nothing else happened

      never cared for what they do
      never cared for what they know
      but I know

      Never suspended without pay
      Life is ours, you’ll do what we say
      If you piss me off, you’ll get the gunspray

      Power I seek and I exercise on you
      Every day for us, something new
      Moustache smells of donuts and mountain dew
      and nothing else happened

      never cared for what they say
      never cared, you’re all just gay
      never cared for civil liberties
      never cared for what they know
      and I know

      So right, no matter how wrong
      compensating for my little dong
      Why do you think I beat up black guys all day looong.
      No, nothing else happened

      1. +Hell Yeah

      2. I hate stupid song lyric posts and that was fucking brilliant.

  34. Is this one of those white guy terrorists the DHS wants me to be on the lookout for?

  35. I’ve got to hand it to the Canton Rep in their reporting on this one. They’ve done a good job of exposing other misdeeds by local government, such as the probate court declaring anyone elderly incompetent and then auctioning off their house and pocketing the profits (one former homeowner got less than $100 from the sale after all the “fees” were taken into account).

  36. What should be concerning to people is that from the standpoint of how the a conversation goes, this is all too typical with cops.

    In almost every encounter I’ve had with police over the last ten or fifteen years, and almost all of these were what you’d call low-intensity encounters, cops will repeatedly silence or interrupt you, then immediately and gruffly demand to know the information you were trying to give you when he silenced and interrupted you.

    Which reminds me, I need to call Lt. Williams back to finish my complaint against the Seattle PD.

  37. Just so everyone’s aware, that part of Canton (100 block of Newton) is probably the worst area one can find within a 50 mile radius. Cops get shot there, cops shoot people there, and criminals shoot people there.

    I’m not saying it justifies the cop’s behaviour. Just pointing out that it is not an easy place to patrol.

    Of course, if we didn’t have a war on drugs and prostitution were decriminalised, the “Newton Zone” (as local service agencies call it) wouldn’t be the violent, lawless place that it is.

    1. Just so everyone’s aware, that part of Canton (100 block of Newton) is probably the worst area one can find within a 50 mile radius.

      Which would make that guy’s carrying concealed all the more expected, no?

      Instead, he gets threatened.

  38. Two simple, no-cost solutions:

    1) put the onus the cop to ask if the citizen is carrying concealed. Removes all ambiguity about promptness right there.

    2) get rid of prostitution ban. Would have saved the cop the trouble of trying to verify his suspicions, so it’s less work for him too

  39. ‘I Should Blast You in the Mouth Right Now’

  40. I don’t know. Policing may be too much to ask of a mere human to perform in a routine manner and never lose one’s cool. From that video, the guy obviously believes himself to be a paragon of righteous virtue.

    He went into the job thinking he was going to help society by going after bad guys, but years of dealing with the public, the scope of who is bad includes those whom he views as incompetents, in this guy’s mind that includes every private citizen who owns a gun. A long history of confirmation bias due to the nature of the job (whom you see on a day to day basis is selected through whom you are called out to deal with), and there are no flags in your head to tell you that you are just flat out wrong.

    I’m not making excuses for the guy, I just don’t think anyone is really good enough of a person to be qualified to be a cop. I know more than a few of them. I happen to like the one’s I know, for the most part. To a man, they are anti gun control. But I could see any of them doing something stupid and pension denying worthy under the right set of circumstances because I could see myself being a dumbass in the right set of circumstances where I have too much power for my own good.

    Ban the profession. Forces every one to be that much more responsible for their civic actions.

    1. If we didn’t have so many laws banning consensual activity and victimless “crimes” we could get away with a tiny fraction of what we have as a police force.

      As it is they spend most of their time harassing people for consensual activity or crimes against the state.

      1. As it is they spend most of their time harassing people for consensual activity or crimes against the state.

        Yep, that’s easier than the tough stuff.

    2. Maybe they could rotate them through a high-stress/ low-stress cycle in the larger departments. An officer does 12 months in the “high” areas before rotated to a “low” area. Partner them up and have each member of a pairing switch every 6 months so there is always someone more familiar with the area on the patrol to help w/ the hand-off.

      1. I see a lot of potential for increased paper pushing. Perhaps for the low stress positions you can institute things like the Missing Cats Division, so they will be on the streets still doing useful things, but I don’t see how you avoid the emasculation when your buddies are out there chasing robbers.

        1. BTW, how is being on a vice squad not emasculating?

  41. Ban the profession.

    England did just “fine” without them at one time. Yeah, thief-takers were probably worse than thieves themselves (being one and the same group), but the system had its benefits.

    1. And this is the part of the show where we indulge preindustrial fantasies.

      You can’t have a densely populated area without a police force of some kind… and I doubt you or any other libertarians would be fans of the “vagrancy” laws of those days that empowered people to detain any stranger who showed up in town.

      1. You can’t have a densely populated area without a police force of some kind…

        See governing structure of Disney Land/Disney World for functioning alternatives.

      2. I dont think I implied it actually would work well, just that it is an option. And it had benefits, primarily being no prosecution for victimless crimes.

        It had negatives too. But rejecting it off-hand without considering what positives we could take from it seems silly.

        1. Arm everyone. Every man, woman and child.

          Then see how much need there is for police.

        2. I dont think I implied it actually would work well, just that it is an option.

          Yeah, well so is wearing underwear on the outside of your pants.

      3. You can’t have a densely populated area without a police force of some kind…

        Argument assumes that in the circumstance where policing doesn’t exist people will not find a means of functioning as a society.

        Breaking it down:

        Public sector the only choice?
        if not
        than
        Public sector the better choice?

        In terms of what?

        Public sector defenders have pretty much over the years abandoned the concept of more efficient utility of resources under a public regime than private contracting as an excuse and ideology for obvious reasons, so what is left? An egalitarian argument?

        That in a society without the arbitrating influence of the public sector you would have gated communities for the well off where they pay for highly professional policing on one hand, and everywhere else where crime would run rampant on the other.

        How is this different than what we have?

        Well, most importantly, where crime is highest the neighborhood is the poorest, is the most obvious trend. The crimes that get ignored in terms of policing are the one’s where the victim is a marginal member of society (the reason prostitutes are preyed upon). Therefore, the argument from an egalitarian stance is so much bunk because these trends would have long disappeared if the assumption was correct.

        So public sector policing is in reality a middle class entitlement since that is the one segment of society where it likely makes a difference. Ultimately, there is nothing more detrimental to our social order than middle class entitlements because we are less reliant on our own means when it is still a valid decision to be so.

        1. blech! between the question How is this different than what we have?

          Well, most importantly, where crime is highest the neighborhood is the poorest, is the most obvious trend. and that paragraph a lead in paragraph got cut. Reads okay, but the question is begged to the end where it is answered instead of answered immediately.

        2. My point is not really an egalitarian one (though there is that too) but more of a recognition that nature whores a vacuum.

          If you remove the police from an area, someone else is going to start coercing in their place.

          1. “nature whores a vacuum”

            I laughed.

  42. Of course, if prostitution were legal none of this would have happened.

  43. Once a police officer takes an encounter personally, he is no longer acting as an agent of the state. He’s acting on his own. It’s just one asshole assaulting another asshole, and should be dealt with as such.

    1. Once a police officer takes an encounter personally you will be taken to jail or issued a fine.
      It is impossible to not be in violation of something. Can’t be done.
      If a cop is determined to ruin your day, he will. There is nothing you can do about it.

      1. first of all, it’s not the case that a cop will do that necessarily. many cases prove otherwise.

        regardless, in this case, it IS being dealt with, and i’ll bet he will be disciplined

        1. I know that it is not always the case that that will happen, but if cop has a hair across his ass and decides he doesn’t like some dude, he will find a reason (drink!) to ruin dude’s day.

          You can’t honestly tell me that you could start following a car and not at some point see the guy do something that would give you a reason (hick!) to pull him over.
          There are so many traffic laws it is impossible to follow them all.

          And if some guy disrespects you when you’re having a day, you mean to tell me you couldn’t come up with something to charge him with?

          Be honest.

          Once a cop’s got it out for somebody, they’re fucked.

        2. it’s not the case that a cop will do that necessarily. many cases prove otherwise.

          So you mean that cops have some discretion at the scene? Or is the entire Legislature doing a ride-along?

      2. ‘If a cop is determined to ruin your day, he will. There is nothing you can do about it.’

        Oh?

        http://www.policeone.com/Offic…..-the-rise/

        1. Oh my god the comments in that article made me vomit in my mouth a little. That’s right, police deaths are up because of “budget cuts” and “limp wristed judges”. Not because they want to play marine or raid innocent peoples houses or kill peoples dogs.

          I grew up as a Boy Scout (don’t hold that against me as it helped make me the libertarian I am today). We were taught to revere the police. And I do believe there are good cops out there, but obviously there are a shot ton that don’t deserve to have a badge and gun, let alone be free to roam around.

  44. I am not going to slog through this whole thread, but the cop should have been suspended for his attitude towards these citizens in the beginning. He went from asshole to psychopath. Fire him.

    1. And with this the thread is officially closed. Thanks everyone for your participation.

    2. suspended yes!

      1. Cop apologist.

        1. lol wheeeee!

          1. You claim you dont do it, but you do.

            Even you admit that he at least has a misdemeanor threat charge and still dont want him fired for it.

            And you never answered my question about his partner.

            Why shouldnt he be fired? He didnt arrest his partner.

            1. Or, to make the question easier:

              If your partner did what Harless did, would you arrest him? If not, what would you do?

              1. *crickets*

              2. Dunphy sure avoids this line of questioning like the plague!

  45. Does anybody know what jurisdiction Dunphy serves in? I believe that there is enough evidence in this thread to have him fired. If not, then his jurisdiction needs to be investigated.

    CB

    1. He then gets replaced by a guy with no libertarian leanings?

    2. Trying to nanny and control others is no way to go through life, son.

      1. I would prefer to dump the system before we dump the dunphys out of the system.

        1. Sorry, I was responding to CB.

          1. My mistake. I’ve been enjoying lime-Beer spritzers all afternoon.

            Blue Moon summer stock on this occasion.

            1. Enjoying beer is never a mistake.

    3. There’s probably enough evidence in these threads for all of us to be fired.

      1. Basically, the fact that we’re posting in them alone would typically be sufficient.

  46. If you want to feel even worse about this one, head over to Jalopnik and read the anti-gunners’ responses to this in the comments.

    Someone can reassure me that we still have a chance of winning the fight for liberty, right? Right?

    1. Collectively, no, there is no victory.

      Best to think of society as a chain gang; some may find ways to make others take up their slack, some may find a cold, unopened can of Country Time lemonade in the ditch he is working to enjoy for his own use, and some may even escape. It’s still a chain gain.

      or, a shit sandwich.

  47. A gem from Reiderman in the CantonRep comments:

    Ok, yes. That cop sucks. Or he was having a very bad day.

    But doesn’t it concern anybody that now a pimps peeps can be CCW’s? I mean, what is he on the payroll?

    We’ve taken an illegal enterprise with a propensity for violence, and we’re adding legal firearms into the mix???

    Funny that… totally lost on this guy (and quite a few others on the thread) is the fact that they took a perfectly legal enterprise (screwing) and mixed in a propensity for violence by making it illegal. Genius!

    And this moron and his cohort’s solution to this is to arrest and perhaps shoot anyone who both owns a weapon and knows anyone who works in the sex industry. Nice.

    How about we just cut out the middle man and get the law out of the entire transaction. Then there is no street corner transaction because they can conduct business indoors with proper security and health and safety precautions. And if that show on premium cable about the bunny ranch is any guide, they’d have a full service bar too…

  48. A gem from Reiderman in the CantonRep comments:

    Ok, yes. That cop sucks. Or he was having a very bad day.

    But doesn’t it concern anybody that now a pimps peeps can be CCW’s? I mean, what is he on the payroll?

    We’ve taken an illegal enterprise with a propensity for violence, and we’re adding legal firearms into the mix???

    Funny that… totally lost on this guy (and quite a few others on the thread) is the fact that they took a perfectly legal enterprise (screwing) and mixed in a propensity for violence by making it illegal. Genius!

    And this moron and his cohort’s solution to this is to arrest and perhaps shoot anyone who both owns a weapon and knows anyone who works in the sex industry. Nice.

    How about we just cut out the middle man and get the law out of the entire transaction. Then there is no street corner transaction because they can conduct business indoors with proper security and health and safety precautions. And if that show on premium cable about the bunny ranch is any guide, they’d have a full service bar too…

    1. I’ll reply to the first double post.

      Is there actually any evidence that it was solicitation? She may or may not be a prostitute, but she was on the outside of the car.

      Talking to a prostitute (if that’s even the case) is not solicitation. Payment of cash for sex is solicitation.

      But I agree that the idea that ‘prohibition’ of prostitution will do anything but enable the government to issue fines is a fantasy.

  49. i’ve repeatedly stated there are a minority of cops who act like total fucksticks and shouldn’t be cops.
    I guess that depends on how you define “fuckstick” and what actions should preclude someone from being a cop. I would say that a significant portion of cops are “fucksticks” in so much as they realize 2 things.

    1) It’s not what is legal for them to do that matters, it’s what they can get away with. Such as, in this case, his partner searching the car in what was probably an illegal search (nothing indicates he received consent to search it). Sure it may be against the law for him to do so, but how many people brought up on prostitution charges are going to risk public humiliation by fighting an illegal search? Further more since not one was charged based on the search there is no actionable offense and he will not be disciplined.

    2) That most criminal cases will be defended by a public defender, who in most cases ,for minor charges, are more concerned with clearing a case than defending the accused. As such they can pretty much get away with arresting people for almost anything, and as long as either the cost of defending against the charges are too high for the defendent or the charges get dropped, it won’t matter.

    In both cases I would consider the cop to be a “fuckstick”, but the actions are no where near what would be required to get fired.

  50. OK – I’m going to go Dunphy here for a second.

    I was born & raised in Ohio. I’m a person of color. I’ve been pulled over somewhere in the vicinity of 30 times or so. Most were pretty legit (headlight out, speeding, etc.) but some times I was pulled over to ask who I was and where I was going. I’m not exaggerating – every time I was pulled over the cops were professional and they almost always gave me the benefit of the doubt. I know, this is just anecdotal evidence, but just wanted to throw that out there for all of those who want to bash every cop in Ohio.

    I will say that I was once pulled over and didn’t tell the cop I had a CCW, and got a very stern warning. The officer didn’t scream or threaten at me, but it’s clear the CCW seems to make cops nervous.

    1. I’m a person of color. I’ve been pulled over somewhere in the vicinity of 30 times or so.

      Goddamn. Being a cracker-ass cracker is nice.

    2. I hope you’re an octogenarian.

      1. 34. Since I was 17, I’ve had about 16 or so speeding tickets. In Ohio, they reset every two years.

  51. I blasted in a girl’s mouth once. She was very unhappy with me.

    1. Only once? I hope you’re in 8th grade.

  52. Man, I come back from camping only to hear about my hometown.

    So to everyone talking about a podunk town, Canton has about 100k people in it, not including the heavily populated neighboring townships. Not that it compares to LA but it’s not some town of 1000 in the middle of nowhere. As to the neighborhood, it’s a bad neighborhood but not exactly a total shithole. There are worse neighborhoods in Canton.

    That said, fuckin’ A this cop pisses me off.

  53. I understand the cop. He said he saw the bulge, nearly shot the guy, didn’t and finds out the guy is innicent. No wonder some adrenaline is coming lose

  54. If the driver had really wanted to shoot either cop, they would’ve been shot 10 times over before the bulge was noticed.

  55. That cop reminds me of a boss I had once.

    The one good thing about him was that everyone knew he was a hotheaded imbecile, so no one paid any attention to what he said.

  56. That cop reminds me of a boss I had once.

    The one good thing about him was that everyone knew he was a hotheaded imbecile, so no one paid any attention to what he said.

  57. I believe it would be appropriate if, after being dismissed from the taxpayers’ employ, this assailant was prohibited from ever owning, carrying, or even touching a firearm again. He’s demonstrated that he lacks the maturity to be trusted with a weapon.

    -jcr

  58. Legalize sex-for-profit, drugs, gambling, and any other victimless crimes. Then the cops would not have much to do would they?

  59. No so-called internal affairs bureau or citizens’ complaints commission can make police ultimately trustworthy so long as they are not ultimately accountable to us.

    We need to re-legalize violent resistance to unlawful bullying by cops. If this victim had shot the badge thug in the head, as should have happened, the next Bubba might think at least once before behaving that way.

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  61. Very good the details guys.

  62. “isolated incident” – Except now there are two other ‘dash-cam’ videos available portraying officer Harless threatening citizens with death.

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