No Happy Ending to Greek Financial Crisis (Except for the Greeks)
"It's hard to see how there could be any happy ending to this story," writes Reason columnist and Mercatus Center economist Veronique de Rugy in The New York Times. She's part of a "Room For Debate" discussion about what should be done regarding the latest International Monetary Fund bailout for the very busted country of Greece. De Rugy notes that unlike Argentina some years back, the Greek situation is more complicated because Greek is part of the euro zone and has no back-up currency. Among other things.
This much is certain: Even as the IMF pushes Greece to show some semblance of fiscal sanity before it coughs up bucks in July, the intervention will fail. And Greek leaders will get some sort of pass on having mismanaged an economy since Hector was a pup.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Ugh. This makes me think of that awful Who song "Athena", recorded after Moon died and they were just jumping the shark.
Awful. Awful. Song. Awful.
She's just a girl - she's a bomb.
A very unWho-like song but I dug it.
You wanna talk about music? OK. (Oh, and I'm back finally)
Yesterday, I realized "Brown-Eyed Girl" is really about buttsecks and the eponymous figure in the title is someone's butthole and not a chick.
"Down in the hollow
Playin a new game"
obviously refers to the act of teh buttsecks.
"Goin' down the old mine
with a transistor radio"
needs no further explanation. "Old mine is obviously an affectionate name for the subject's rectum, while the transistor radio is code for a battery-powered dildo.
"Standin in the sunlight laughin.
Hidin behind the rainbow wall.
Slippin and a slidin
All along the waterfall with you."
Does this even need explaining? Hiding behind the rainbow wall refers to the Dorothy thing. The rainbow wall is hiding from the taboo associated with buttsecks. The rest of this lyric discusses the aftermath of the buttsecks and the potential for a dangerous situation if the Santorum affect is not minimized.
"So hard to find my way,
Now that I'm all on my own.
I saw you just the other day,
My how you have grown,"
The object of the singer's affection has moved on but they have one last dalliance for old time's sake and the singer notes the growth of the receptacle and is pleased with what he sees.
I have no idea if this refers to homo- or hetero- buttsecks, and I really non't care either way. It's a really cool song.
Oh, and this was OT.
Oh, and this was OT.
Not really - the post was discussing the possibility of a Greek 'happy ending' after all...
Homo. Please refer to "Madame George", written about the same time. You don't even need to look at the lyrics. The title alone reveals the sordid story. And then there's his reference to Fats Domino as his "Romeo". QED.
The first link is broken.
Uzbeks are the weak link in the chain of socialism.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Also, we've "won" in Libya, right? Right??
We're "winning" the future.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Hector was from Wilusa (Ilium/Troy), not Greece.
Thank you. The lack of classical education amongst reason editors is just appalling.
I assume Nick knows Hector was from Troy, but my inner Homer got enraged at measuring Greek timelines from a Trojan's life. Fucking Trojans.
I thought Hector was the first of the gang to die?
Doh!
That inner Homer is trying to figure out what fraternities have to do with economics.
How do the Trojans fit in with Sloopy's butsecks?
I'm glad you agree with my improvements to the American school system.
Do we want Greece to avoid a general default, or not?
From a libertarian perspective, I mean.
I'm asking in all seriousness.
I say no. It's of the utmost important that the world be forced to witness and confront the consequences of the uncontrolled welfare state head-on. It's the only way people ever truly learn from their bad decisions.
Which is why I suspect they will be bailed out. Otherwise the masses might lose confidence in almighty government as a solution to all their problems.
Gov. LePetomaine: Gentlemen, we've all got to protect our phoney baloney jobs!
We're all Greeks now - or will be soon enough.
My more progressive friends think the Greek problem is indicative of evil "corporations" or "banks" or something-or-another.
Evul Koch-porations and Banksters? Sounds good to me!
So we can keep getting "free" stuff from the gummint, cause "we're" not the problem, right? RIGHT?
If you mean by getting their house in order? Yes, I think we do. If you mean by bailing them out, no.
Of course, we could all benefit from their example if they collapse, but, to be honest, I don't think we need any more evidence that you can't spend more than you have forever.
I don't think we need any more evidence that you can't spend more than you have forever.
Sure we do!
Let me rephrase: No amount of evidence will convince those in power here to change their ways voluntarily.
A+ and the Winner.
I don't think any big spender will learn a damn thing.
After the Latin American debt crisis of the 1980s, I never heard a leftist blame the big spending governments - they always blamed it on the IMF for not continuing to fund the big spenders. They also blamed the governments for caving to the IMF and not simply defaulting on their debts.
If Greece defaults, the left will blame everybody but the Greeks.
IMF policy typically enriched the elite of third world nations as a means to just get them to agree to certain policies, which throughout the fifties, sixties and seventies meant building up public bureaucracies dedicated to make work crap. Personally, if I was one of the people on the outside who did not benefit from being amongst the corrupt, I would have a huge problem with being asked to pay for it too. Just as I do with the US debt.
Krugman will say Greece should have spent more.
I think it's in everyone's long term interests not to keep feeding the moral-hazard beast.
When the Greek chaos begins in earnest, will the US intervene militarily?
Don't look at us!
Or us!
The Turks could handle it alone.
I knew there was a reason to keep you guys armed.
Wouldn't that a bit harsh, to arrest another Papandreou in a U.S.-supported coup?
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Hector's from Toronto!
Oh, you weren't talking about Hector MacDonald. Never mind....
Was it here I read that some of the Greek protestors were threatening to destroy the Acropolis or something? That's like Orlando threatening to blow up Disney, or a regular old person threatening to slit their own throat.
"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it"
Parts have already been blown up by the coalition in WWI when being used as an ammo dump by the Turks. I don't think burning is going to be worse for it.
Yeah, it took the modern era to finally do some real damage to the Parthenon.
That was in 1687, I believe.
Still modern.
Didn't it happen again in WWI?
This is why I can't have nice things. Or joke handles.
I notice how they are talking about the IMF bailing out Greece and others. The IMF is just a sock puppet, its the taxpayers of the members of the IMF including the US which are getting stuck with this bill. The IMF has no money, its the members who must pony up for the bill.
Well, the IMF should at least reimburse them for that nice wooden horse they sent over.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
If I were Greece, I'd just default and restructure. At the end of the day, it's not Greece holding the bag anyways. I don't know why they tie themselves in knots.
Restructure, how? Where is the money going to come from? They can't restructure now because the hoi polloi want the free money to keep coming.
Absent another Midas*, or his hoard, someone's going to have to bail them out.
(*) Yes, Epi, I know he was Phyrgian, but he's part of greek mythology.
He's going to attack you for the the-the, now.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Apologetic California|6.20.11 @ 11:45AM|#
"If I were Greece, I'd just default and restructure."
Instead, you're just a brain-dead shit-slinger.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Half of Greek sovereign debt is held by Greek banks. The rest is held by banks and funds outside of Greece, mostly in Europe, especially in France.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
Somebody, somewhere, has to be allowed to fail.
And, of course, the Greeks have real assets with real value which, contrary to liberal delusion, will still be there the morning after.
Somebody, somewhere, has to be allowed to fail.
Let me be clear.
I take responsibility.
Ooh, ooh!
Things you'll never hear in real life.
Spoofity spoof!
They could sell a few of their beautiful islands to the Germans.
Tell the Krauts they can have Crete after all.
Ve don't vant it anymore.
The best way to cure a gambler of making stupid bets is to take all his money and toss him into the street, instead of taking an endless series of "double or nothing" bets (each of which is more outrageous than the last).
The happy ending would be for the European Project to lose all credibility.
Looks like I won't be voting for Vitina Marcus for President:
As the green lady I drank green fuel and still do in the form of raw green vegetable juice and cruelty-free vegetarian nutrition for food, and I do not support the slaughter of animals for food or fur.
"I do not support the slaughter of animals for food or fur."
What about fun?
That wasn't fun for Michael Vick, it was business!
Sure, he was in it for the money...
This is someone who has obviously never had bacon before.
Slaughtering plants for their juice (as well as any tiny insects who happen to be living on the plants) is apparently OK though. At some point you have to make peace with the fact that humans can only survive as parasites on other living things.
Though at this point in history slaughtering animals for fur is stupid.
Though at this point in history slaughtering animals for fur is stupid.
OK smart guy, where do you get the vat-grown furs?
Do you wear leather shoes?
Fur is is just skin with the hair still attached.
If she wins - these guys should be very afraid:
http://www.hatziioakimidis.gr/.....pid=1&la=2
our parasite class should keep in mind, the more we spend bailing out Greece and others, the sooner the day of reckoning arrives at their own door. but they'll never believe that.
Restructure, how? Where is the money going to come from?
They just need to raise taxes. And aggressively pursue the cheaters.
That will fix it.
Official estimates are about 20% of Greece's economy is underground (and it might be a lot higher).
Raising taxes won't raise revenue if it just forces more of the economy underground. It would be comparable to 1920s Chicago announcing it will be funding future operations by taxing mobsters.
The Greek economy will be saved by eBay.
I'm sure they could get a good price for all that beautiful marble stuff they have lying around.
Didn't the British "buy" up some of that already?
Yeah, they got in early before the market price went up and snapped up many of the best pieces. But there is still lots of stuff people will pay big bucks for.
Besides, the Romans swiped the real best stuff long before the Brits got to it.
The citizens of my state's capitol city like to brag that their Parthenon is a lot better than the Greek one--it's new!
I wonder what percentage of the U.S. economy is underground (or is that hard to measure?). I also wonder how the increase in taxation and regulation changes this amount of underground activity. I suppose it depends to some degree on the enforcement and punishment of the "dodgers".
a quick google:
http://www.washingtontimes.com.....d-economy/
"Countries such as the United States, Switzerland and Japan historically have had relatively small, nonreporting and/or illegal sectors, a typical estimate being 13 percent of GDP.
Most European countries have had somewhat larger underground sectors (typically 20 percent or so) in part because of the desire to escape higher tax rates. Italy and some of the other Southern European countries are believed to have underground sectors that account for 30 percent or more of all economic activity. "
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
You are being ironic, but I know far too many people who believe that to be literally true.
And some of them live in the White House and/or have legal immunity when they give a talk at their job.
I said it in another thread. Someone needs to convince these protesters to move to a coastline somewhere and find 300 volunteers to slaughter all of them and push them into an ocean.
That would be history repeating itself that I could get behind.
I know far too many people who believe that to be literally true.
One of those people who likes to say that is the senior Senator from Montana, one Max Baucus.
What do you expect from the country that gave us Kos and Michael Dukakis.
This is an acceptable thread in which to place metal played by hot Greek chicks.
I think I died a little bit inside.
Do we want Greece to avoid a general default, or not?
I would love for Greece to avoid a general default by paying off their debt with their own money.
My second choice is a quasi-default via forced restructuring of outstanding debt.
Avoiding a default by getting foreign taxpayers to send shiploads of money? No thanks.
You mis-spelled 'shitloads'.
RC, isn't the forced restructuring just kicking the can really really hard?
I'm not necessarily against it, but it seems like it's mostly just another time-buying exercise - they won't be able to pay the restructured debt either but when it becomes obvious to the suckers the people in charge will have retired by then.
Iceland-style default seems like the way to go.
Iceland is doing quite well post-default, but their debt failures were not caused primarily by deficit spending for unsustainable social programmes.
I can explain this. Iceland is getting protection money from Europe on the sly. If Europe doesn't pay, Iceland will make its volcano erupt again.
I am ice land.
I cover Europe in hot magma at our command.
We cannot help ourselves.
We are parental with this tough volcano love.
If Greece had its own currency, they would have done this over a year ago. But their monetary policy is controlled by Frankfurt, which last year bought a lot of Greek bonds in the secondary market and now doesn't want to take losses.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
And no one picked up on Olberman signing with a network that has, oh, two or three outlets?
Maybe he'll go to China and giggle his way into North Korea.
The banksters are at it until they make Greece default to make their billions of euros off the backs + sweat of the Greek people.
https://pppkingdom.wordpress.com/category/ppp-2/about-ppp-private-placement-programs-money/
How come they still want to pour more money into additonal rescue packages? When some European countries refused to contribute into them last year they were strongly criticized and now that the world leaders see that the accumulation of debt won't solve the crisis they ask for the same thing once more.
is good