Riding in Cars with Mexicans

Alabama has decided to follow in Arizona's footsteps (or at least to follow in Oklahoma's footsteps, since they followed Arizona first). The state senate recently passed a bill banning, among other things, knowingly giving an undocumented immigrant a ride in your car.

The legislature is also taking action to keep the scourge of mariachi music (or whatever) out of Alabama's all-American proms, where real patriots prefer lip syncing to "Livin' on a Prayer" over and over.

SB 256, the "Alabama Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act," takes steps to block employers from hiring illegal immigrants, gives law enforcement more authority to check immigration status, requires voters to bring proof of citizenship with them to the polls—and prohibits "participation in any extracurricular activity outside of the basic course of study" for K-12 students who aren't legal residents. In other words, no chess club or drama society for the kids; football might be a religion in Alabama, but that's off-limits too.

By the way, there's an apparently unrelated yet highly relevant Facebook group. There's always a Facebook group.

Via The Agitator's guestblogger Dave Krueger, who is filling in while Radley Balko galavants around Croatia.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

I always check the papers of people I let into my chariot. Especially if they're brown, if you know what I mean. That's just common sense.

[rather]

FOE, really? I didn't know you had a hair color preference. Your facebook page said you like them shaved.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I also check papers of those who hop-on to my first comments.

[SugarFree]

She has a passport. From Fatsylvania.

[Warty]

Careful. This one has fleas.

[Jeff P]

"But officer, she's just a hooker!"

[SugarFree]

Guess I might as well scrape off my "Ass, Grass, or Mariach... Nobody Rides For Gratis" bumbersticker.

[IceTrey]

Hey Katherine, you do realize there are illegal aliens from other countries too? Like those damn Canadians. They're taking all of our comedic acting jobs!

[Seth Rogen]

Let's just ignore The Green Hornet.

[IceTrey]

I actually kind of liked The Green Hornet. For one thing the "heroes" kill people. They kill a lot of people! Brutally!

[PIRS]

Just how am I supposed to "know" is someone is "undocumented". Am I supposed to use E-Verify before giving someone a lift?

[Fist of Etiquette]

If the lift is from outside the Home Depot to your tool shed, then you are required to check papers, and to fill out a W-4 (for proof of adequate health insurance). Otherwise, you just have to check papers.

[TrickyVic]

PIRS said lift, not job. You don't need to fill out a W-4 to give someone a lift.

The part would be very hard to enforce, like perjury. If it says knowingly, they will have to show that you knew. Not a easy task.

[Bill Clinton]

I know all about perjury.

[Tacos mmm...]

The 90's called. They want you back.

[Ted S.]

The 90s

[The Derider]

and prohibits "participation in any extracurricular activity outside of the basic course of study" for K-12 students who aren't legal residents.

Unconstitutional.

[cmace]

Maybe just a simple literacy test would satisfy thee people, like reading. Chinese.

[PIRS]

I tried to respond to this properly but got the following message: "Your comment does not appear to be written in an English script. Please comment in English."

[Max]

http://groups.google.com/group.....2e950c019e

Ron Paul's six-point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:
1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines.
2. Enforce visa rules.
3. No amnesty.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens.
5. End birthright citizenship.
8. Pass true immigration reform.

[barfman]

*barf*

[proegg antichicken]

Whoah-OH! We're halfway there!

huh?

[Max]

"The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war."--Ron Paul

But Mexicans are Christians and celbrate Xmas.

[barfman]

*barf*

[Max]

"The beneficial, educational impact of the John Birch Society over the past four decades would be hard to overestimate. It is certainly far more than most people realize. Anyone who has been in the trenches over the years battling on any of the major issues - whether it's pro-life, gun rights, property rights, taxes, government spending, regulation, national security, privacy, national sovereignty, the United Nations, foreign aid - knows that members of the John Birch Society are always in there doing the heavy lifting. And most importantly, they approach all of these issues from a strong moral and constitutional perspective. Lots of people pay lip service to the Constitution, but Birchers study it, understand it, apply it, and are serious about protecting it and holding public officials accountable to it."--Ron Paul

[Dean Clean]

They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay Martians.

[barfman]

*barf*

[PIRS]

Max, in case you have not noticed the who time you have been here; not all libertarians agree with one another 100% of the time on every single issue.

[Darien]

What? No, we're a homogeneous collective. That's what libertarianism is all about: reinvisioning society as an ant colony. Preferably of robot ants.

[PIRS]

+50

[Max]

Yeah, I noticed that, but Ron Paul is such a bag of shit on so many levels that I would think he would be anathema to libertarians. Your great love of the old fuck is a great mystery.

[PIRS]

Your articulate and well thought out description of him as "a bag of shit on so many levels" has caused me to rethink my previously held view of him.

Seriously, is this all you have?

[barfman]

*barf*

[Abdul]

Alabama soccer is going to suck.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Shit! I was going to say the same thing.

[Darien]

I dunno; Livin' on a Prayer is pretty bitchin'. Love it or leave it.

[Fluffy]

If you don't believe in open borders, you don't believe in capitalism, and shouldn't be allowed to claim that you do without challenge.

And that's just as true of Ron Paul as it is of these Alabama legislators.

If the basic premises underpinning the capitalist system are true, there is no way for additional labor inputs to hurt the system overall. It's simply impossible. Therefore, if you oppose open borders, you have to be doing so from a non-capitalist perspective.

Some Fortress America advocates try to get around this by saying, "Buh-buh-buh the welfare state!" but that criticism is easily dismissed: Simply allow open-ended residency visas for anyone who remains employed or does not sign up for public assistance. Problem solved.

[PIRS]

Fluffy, I disagree with Ron Paul on this issue but I understand his position. His position (as I understand it) is that given the fact that our current economic paradigm is far from free-market capitalism it is better for the immigration laws to be enforced because of the drain on taxpayers vis-a-vis the welfare state.

If we could snap our fingers and have a pure Bastiat-approved free market system I think he would support open borders. But we don't.

[Fluffy]

I wish that was it. But it's not.

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines.
2. Enforce visa rules.
3. No amnesty.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens.
5. End birthright citizenship.
8. Pass true immigration reform.

If the drain on the taxpayers was the problem, it would be solved by #4.

What are the other five steps supposed to do?

The other five steps are pretty clearly using #4 as a pretext to engage in dog-whistle rhetoric to people worried about the demographic makeup of the US. You know. Racists.

Sorry, it's true.

[PIRS]

"What are the other five steps supposed to do?"

Work on the enforcement angle?

[Hop a Ride In MyHernandoDeSoto]

Ron Paul's position on immigration is what gets him elected. I'm not 100% sure Ron Paul actually believes his stated position, but he panders like every politician.

[PIRS]

"Simply allow open-ended residency visas for anyone who remains employed or does not sign up for public assistance."

Some people argue that this could lead to fraud. They point out that there is already a great deal of welfare fraud.

Again, it is not a position I agree with, but I understand their argument.

[Fluffy]

The numbers still don't work.

The target of anti-immigration forces isn't the welfare-receiving immigrant, it's the employed immigrant. That's why they demand verification of legal status to work, that's why they launch raids on meat-packing plants, etc.

Sheriff Joe is not arresting people who are in line at the welfare office. He wants to arrest people looking for work at Home Depot, riding in vans to work on farms, etc.

And I'm sorry: if you want to drive immigrants out of the work force, there is no way to have that impulse without accepting a non-capitalistic view of the labor market. You have to believe that adding all those additional labor inputs and all that additional productivity is making us poorer. That is a Leninist impulse whether it's consciously arrived at or not.

[PIRS]

"The target of anti-immigration forces isn't the welfare-receiving immigrant, it's the employed immigrant."

OK, now you are judging his view of this based upon the views of others who have a superficially similer position. This is what Max does to us.

[Tacos mmm...]

That's what everyone does. We just get upset when it happens to us.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

By that definition of capitalism, you shouldn't have any problem with a robust market in contract murders and slaves, either.

[MWG]

You equating the right to free association with murderers and slave holders?

Here's a hint: One of these three don't infringe on the the rights of others.

[Fluffy]

That's ridiculous.

Every argument - every last one - that applies to a free market for goods and services applies to the market for labor. It could not be otherwise, since labor is either a good or a service depending on how it is contracted.

It is literally capitalist macroecon 101 that every additional input to the system increases net system wealth.

Adding more workers and their associated productivity to a system can't hurt that system any more than having a new producer start making TV's or having a new producer start growing corn.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

*snicker*

Apparently they aren't teaching "externalities" in macro econ 101.

When you can provide an example of an iPhone that has children, votes, consumes public services, and has political and legal standing, *then* you can tell me a free market in labor is equivalent to a free market in goods.

[MWG]

STE, until you can provide actual numbers in terms of how much illegal immigrants cost this country vs. how much they bring in, you're essentially full of shit.

Illegal immigrants pay SS taxes as well as medicare taxes and will never collect on either of those programs. They also pay sales taxes and generate other taxes through the business they businesses they frequent.

Cars pollute (Externalities!). Let's get rid of cars!

[and another thing...]

Apparently Denmark's real-world experience didn't quite pan out according to your economic theory. Of course, the real-world experience of no country on earth ever has, which, for some reason, I doubt will stop you from repeating the same discredited bullshit over and over again.

[MWG]

A govt. report which studies the amount the govt. 'saved' without mentioning the lost economic opportunities is hardly definitive.

[Warty]

Edward is working awfully hard today. Should we reward him with attention?

[SugarFree]

No, for all he seeks is to masturbate furiously at our negative attention.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I'll be honest here and admit that I have no problem with someone masturbating to my overblown rhetoric. Hell, I'm doing it right now.

[Max]

From Wikipedia ("John Birch Society")

The sensationalism of Welch's charges against Eisenhower prompted several conservatives and Republicans, most prominently Goldwater and the intellectuals of William F. Buckley's circle, to renounce outright or quietly shun the group. Buckley, an early friend and admirer of Welch, regarded his accusations against Eisenhower as "paranoid and idiotic libels" and attempted unsuccessfully to purge Welch from the Birch Society.[42] From then on Buckley, who was editor of National Review, became the leading intellectual spokesman and organizer of the anti-Bircher conservatives.[43] In fact, Buckley's biographer John B. Judis wrote that "Buckley was beginning to worry that with the John Birch Society growing so rapidly, the right-wing upsurge in the country would take an ugly, even Fascist turn rather than leading toward the kind of conservatism National Review had promoted."[

[Ham]

Really? Tell me more! Is the John Birch Society the group featured in American History X? Where can I go to join one of those meetings. PM me and set up a place and time. We'll go together!

[Xam]

From Wikipedia ("Cowbird")

These birds feed on insects, including the large numbers that may be stirred up by cattle. In order for the birds to remain mobile and stay with the herd, they have adapted by laying their eggs in other birds' nests. The cowbird will watch for when its host lays eggs, and when the nest is left unattended, the female will come in and lay its own eggs. The female cowbird may continue to observe the nest after laying her eggs. If the cowbird egg is removed, the female cowbird may destroy the host's eggs[1].

The Brown-headed Cowbird has over 220 hosts[2]. The other cowbird species have fewer known hosts, but all the species are generalists when it comes to choosing a host. This means that the eggs may look different from the hosts' eggs. The cowbird chicks grow quickly, and may consume most of the food the host brings. Starvation will often kill the host's chicks. In some species the cowbird chick will use its large size to push the other chicks out of the nest. The Giant Cowbird does not appear to harm its host oropendola or cacique chicks.

[Ham]

More! I love learning from you, Max. Your smarter than anyother websight I saw. I herd cowbirds law eggs ion robin nests but robins know about this and then push the egg out. It's late term abortion! How do you like abortions, max?

[Xam]

From Wikipedia ("Springtail")

Springtails (Collembola) form the largest of the three lineages of modern hexapods that are no longer considered insects (the other two are the Protura and Diplura). Though the three orders are sometimes grouped together in a class called Entognatha because they have internal mouthparts, they do not appear to be more closely related to one another than they all are to insects, which have external mouthparts.

Some DNA sequence studies[2][3][4] suggest that Collembola represent a separate evolutionary line from the other Hexapoda, but others disagree;[5] this seems to be caused by widely divergent patterns of molecular evolution among the arthropods.[6] The adjustments of traditional taxonomic rank for springtails reflects the incompatibility of traditional groupings with modern cladistics: when they were included with the insects, they were ranked as an order; as part of the Entognatha, they are ranked as a subclass. If they are considered a basal lineage of Hexapoda, they are elevated to full class status.

[The Gobbler]

I had a brown-headed Cowbird at my feeder ths weekend. First one in many, many years. I had forgotten that they leave their eggs in the nests of other birds.

True story.

[Libertymike]

Only a racist would feel the need to describe the Cowbird as "brown - headed".

[Fluffy]

Tell me, is Welch still the head of the John Birch Society?

Given the work product of the National Review for the last decade I guess that whole Buckleyesque attempt to avoid fascism ended up being a total fucking failure anyway.

Who is farther from fascism? The people at a Ron Paul meetup, or an editorial board meeting of the National Review? I think I know the answer.

[Ham]

Matt Welch is max? Wow, my head = blown.

[Libertymike]

Buckely, though entertaining at times, was, at the end of the day, a stuttering, incoherent "intellectual".

[ola]

who interrupted his long sentences with intermittent coughing spasms which were really fucking annoying to listen to.

[Libertymike]

You are right. Almost any person would be annoyed by such intermittent coughing spasms; however, I found some develish delight in the same-particularly taking note of the extraordinary patience demonstrated by the likes of the late David Brudnoy (WBZ Boston nigtime talk show giant) while interviewing Mr. Firing Line. Ordinarily, Mr. Brudnoy, and I suspect many here, would not have such patience.

[Invisible Finger]

Will city bus drivers get arrested for doing the same thing?

[Invisible Finger]

Will city bus drivers get arrested for doing the same thing?

[Max]

Ron Paul is a Birchite, Christian identity racist piece of shit.

[PIRS]

[Citation needed]

[Max]

I cite his whole fucking political career and numerous imncriminating quotes.

[PIRS]

Incriminating? Are you refering to something that he did not write that was published in a newsletter that he was not running at the time?

Got anything better?

[barfman]

*barf*

[L4F]

I think Alabama is doing a great thing. In fact, the more politically incorrect and anti-illegal you are, the more the illegals will go to Texas, Arizona, California, or wherever progressives welcome them.

In fact, I encourage illegals to invade Malibu and Beverly Hills. I'd love to see those limousine liberals putting up with Juanita and her ten kids. Hey, maybe some of those megamansions can be turned into homeless shelters. Why not? Liberals want to spread the wealth, so let's start in their neighborhoods.

Quitting Smoking Can Kill You: Chantix Sued after Man Murders Wife.
http://libertarians4freedom.bl.....antix.html

[Libertymike]

Greg, yes, I do listen to Rush. Thank you for appreciating my sense of humor yesterday.

However, why the new handle?

[MWG]

"I encourage illegals to invade Malibu and Beverly Hills."

They probably would if they could afford the rent.

"I'd love to see those limousine liberals putting up with Juanita and her ten kids."

You don't think 'limousine liberals' hire illegal immigrant house keepers and yard workers?

Oh, and... barf.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

You don't think 'limousine liberals' hire illegal immigrant house keepers and yard workers?

Yes, as a matter of fact they do. Then when they've fouled their own nest and fucked it up for their neighbors by doing so, they do the SWPL cha-cha off to another state, and start the whole process over again. I know plenty of 'em that did just that.

[MWG]

Ah yes, the 'states-are-a-wreck-because-of teh-immigrants' argument.

[PolishKnight]

Actually, they can "afford" the rent and it's happened in suburbia: They rent a 4 bedroom place and have 20 illegals live there. 4 in each bedroom and 4 in the living room.

Malibu liberal hypocrites don't even want the trashy middle class whites walking on their "public" beaches though. They illegally fence them in and then send out security goons if someone tries to walk on them. You have to have a tide chart, a copy of the California code, AND a mobile phone with the local Malibu PD's number on it to get them off of you. It's great though when you wander by some commie Party boss's house and look in their picture window and say "Hi friend! Want to share some of your wealth with me?"

Logic 101: California is geographically just like Mexico. If illegals from Mexico are so great, why isn't Mexico a paradise? Why are they leaving it?

[Jim]

You heard it here first, folks: Texas and Arizona are progressive states that welcome illegals.

[Yet another Dave]

We really need to do something about illegal immigration, and considering that the feds don't seem interested in enforcing our laws and defending our national sovereignty, I'm all for states picking up the ball and running with it. After all, we've got a border patrol that functions more like national Walmart greeters, waving at the illegals as they go running by since if they actually try to stop someone from crossing the border, it's the border patrol officers that go to jail for it, so they best they can do is wave as drug dealers go running by. Or it's just a big game of Red Light, Green Light, where the worst that happens is the border patrol catches you moving and you get sent back to base to start over again.

But this is ridiculous. I may be anti-illegal immigration, but as long as they play by the rules, I don't really care who comes into this country. After all, nearly all of us had our ancestors get kicked out of somewhere else at some point, not even "Native Americans" are believed to be truly indigenous to this continent. So if they play by the rules, then I say "welcome to America." And if there's a high school in Podunk, Ala., that has a strong enough Hispanic population that they want Mariachi music, I say let them also have Menudo's greatest hits if that's what excites them.

Clearly, though, I'm going to have to ask for a green card next time I pick up a hitchhiker in Birmingham.

[Tacos mmm...]

But this is ridiculous. I may be anti-illegal immigration, but as long as they play by the rules, I don't really care who comes into this country.

This is a bit like saying "I don't care if you're gay, as long as you don't have sex." The reason we have so much illegal immigration is that our immigration laws are so restrictive. Forget fences. The easy way to get rid of illegal immigration is to legalize it.

[Seer]

People don't lip-sync living on a prayer, they just sing it.

[Love it or Leav it]

WHOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH WERE HALFWAY THEREEEEEEEEE WHOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHHHH WERE LIIIVVVVINNN ONN A PRAYYYYYAAAAAAAA!

[Love it or Leav it]

I'm fucking awesome. I'm a Mexican.

[Jim]

And what race is Awesome? Because if you're in Alabama, miscegenation may be illegal there.

[Troy]

So I wonder what one of these well heeled Alabama fucks, the kind that beleives in And government has a limited but important role in reinforcing social norms and expectations would do in they went to Douglas, AZ and saw all those fucking brown people?

BTW, don't go to Shooters in Douglas if you wanna see a bunch of hot latina ladies.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

No biggie. Alabama is the kind of shithole even illegal immigrants wouldn't want to live in anyway...

[Vosloo]

You guys make a lot of sense on so many issues. But this open-borders dogma is just nuts. You're so desirous of keeping your views consistent that you refuse to acknowledge what common sense should tell you: that large swaths of this country would quickly become hell-holes if we let in everyone who wanted to come in.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

It's strange, that's what they said about the Chinese, Irish and Polish immigrants 100+ years ago, all of whom had a ghetto phase borne out of poverty, then became solidly middle to upper-middle class through decades of hard work.

Let us note that the disproportionate burden on our immigration system is Mexico, which is largely a victim of American drug policy. The violence there makes it unsavory for businesses to invest, thus no jobs, more violence, and more emigration to America. Without the inner city violence resulting largely from the drug war, and poverty that is exacerbated by complete dependency upon the welfare state and the failed school system, there will be regions that will be poorer than others, but I hesitate to see how America would suddenly become awash with hellholes because lower income people with different languages happen to live there?

[PolishKnight]

Hahahaha! I love the "whites are immigrants too so you're just like the Mexicans" argument of equivalency.

Indeed, it's often been said that what happened to the native Americans was wrong. But now, the left would seem to indicate that it's A-ok when it suits them. The genocide of the Indians or Native Americans was just good ol' free markets, baby! John Wayne using a six shooter that kills 20 Indians was just exercising the free market!

Same thing with "affirmative action." It's defenders say: "Sure, there are bad side effects but rich white women are getting good jobs so it's ok". Very well, then slavery must have been a great thing since rich white males (and rich white women) were living high off the hog, so why is it regarded as a bad thing?

Isn't it fun when we rationalize bad policies?

Libertarian endoresement of "free markets" is like a pacifist saying that they want to advertise that it's acceptable to rob and murder them because otherwise, even a defense such as a wall is an act of hostility. There simply isn't enough resources to allow everyone who wants to in the world to come to the states in addition to the problem of the welfare state that will NEVER be resolved since illegals first act upon amnesty is to quit their job and go on it.