Obamacare

Vermont Takes the Single-Payer Plunge

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Single-payer syrup now!

Oh, Vermont, you're so crazy. According to the Internet, (which, granted, may or may not be telling the truth in the strict sense) you once passed a law banning tying giraffes to telephone poles. You also gave America Sen. Bernie "Please-Call-Me-a-Successful-(Democratic)-Socialist!" Sanders, who, in December of 2009, tried to attach a 700-page single-payer health care bill to ObamaCare.

That didn't take, but Vermont's politicians aren't giving up on the dream, or the crazy. The state's legislators are now in the process of making it the first state in the nation to experiment with single-payer health care. In broad strokes, the plan is for the state to eventually fold everyone into a system in which all health care payments go through the government, which will transform itself, Megatron-style, into the state's one and only insurer and health care pay-master. One system, one government, one payer: Hence, single payer.

Will it work? No state has ever actually implemented a single-payer health system before, so there isn't much precedent. But back in the 1990s, California flirted with the idea of setting up a single payer system under the autocratic rule of a state-appointed health commissioner whose absolute control over the system's giant budget would have rivaled Dr. Doom's control over Latveria (albeit without the Doombots).

Unlike California's single-payer proposal, Vermont's law will pass: "Obviously, I intend to sign the bill," Gov. Pete Shumlin recently told the Burlington Free Press. But the law won't birth a full-fledged single payer system overnight: Mostly the plan is to slowly start the process of rolling people into a single system and figure out exactly how to make it work later. 

According to the law's backers, it will work this time. Somehow! Here's Wendell Potter, the perpetually aggreived ex-health insurance exec, talking up its benefits:

Vermont this week will be taking a giant leap in the other direction—toward universal coverage and greater cost control—when Gov. Peter Shumlin signs legislation putting the state on the path toward a single-payer health care system.

So, about that "cost control." Sounds good, and Potter isn't the only one to cite that as a reason to pass the law: Last year, Shulin indicated that he also believes the law will make health care cheap, cheap, cheap. You know, like Medicare, which after all only blows about $50 billion a year on fraud and improper payments. Anyway! 

How exactly would that work? The law has a plan—a sort of super-sized, super-powerful version of ObamaCare's Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), the board of federal bureaucrats charged with holding down Medicare's spending—but the authors of the legislation left out some of the OMG-how-will-we-pay-for-this?!?! details.  Like, for example, the financing mechanisms. That's right; the law's authors didn't actually get to that part. Crazy? Maybe a bit. But not entirely. After all: There is a study group! They're totally working on it. 

NEXT: Michael Moynihan's Reason Exit Interview: Now with Vice mag, he dishes on Libya, Sweden, & more

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  1. There is a study group!

    ** jumping up & down waving hands **

    Ooohh, can I be on it?!

    1. Ugh. This is going to make Massachusetts look sane by comparison.

  2. Any state that urinates maple syrup into a bucket is good in my book

    1. Thanks…I could have done without the visual.

      1. Check the article picture, it provides the visual.

        1. No no….I saw it. I just didn’t connect the dots until you helped!

          1. Vermonts penis looks to be uncircumcised…gross

            1. Circumcisions will be banned in Vermont any day now…

        1. Well, I learned something today.

          I wish I could immediately unlearn it.

          1. “Maple syrup urine disease (MSUD), also called branched-chain ketoaciduria, is an autosomal recessive[1] metabolic disorder affecting branched-chain amino acids. It is one type of organic acidemia.[2] The condition gets its name from the distinctive sweet odor of affected infants’ urine”

            at first I read that as “delicious sweet odor of affected infants urine.” And i was like WTF??? Then ever after i read it correctly i was still thinking wtf…

            1. If you like MSUD then you’ll love Black Diaper Disease

        2. Already knew.

          But didn’t associate it with the picture…ew.

    2. Urinates?

      That was not the picture I got.

  3. Is this legal even at the state level?

    1. Shit what’s legal anymore….if the (a) government does it it’s legal. If you do anything….well we’ll get back to you…..maybe with a SWAT team in tow.

      1. Hey, I’m a consumer of Vermont syrup. They don’t dare touch me.

        1. Boycott Vermont!!!!!!!!!!

        2. Heh heh — you said “touch me”

    2. Sure, unless there’s something in Vermont’s constitution that would block it.

      The interesting questions will come when this thing starts rubbing up against federal mandates, and the Supremacy Clause rears its scaly head.

      Also interesting will be how many doctors actually stick around for what is certain to be a big pay cut.

      1. The interesting questions will come when this thing starts rubbing up against federal mandates, and the Supremacy Clause rears its scaly head.

        Something something Jim Crow, lesser of two evils, federal supremacy.

      2. I was thinking Vermont Constitution, too. States can do a lot more than the federal government, but to do true single-payer seems like a stretch, even at the state level.

        We could use some more doctors down here. The weather is much nicer, too.

      3. With no doctors, and with no Big Evil Inc., where do the sharks find their chum?

        Payments scheme in study-group indeed. That is something all Democrats will have to confront in their health-schemes; eventually the state has to pay the malpractice industry as well as the medical biz.

        After all, John Edwards doesn’t come cheap.

    3. I will make it legal.

  4. Oh gods no. NH has already gotten enough Masshole refugees streaming across the borders. With the VTers coming as well, this state will drown in a sea of moderate Democrats.

    1. the VTers coming as well, this state will drown in a sea of moderate Democratsself-aggrandizing, statist mouth-breathers.

      FTFY.

    2. Suddenly, Free State Project looks like an even better idea.

      And yes, I know the Free State is New Hampshire. I’d go to (just maybe) help offset.

  5. I heard about this approx. a month ago on NPR. God I hope this law sticks, doesn’t get overturned in court, and the highly predictable consequences get to play out. Vermont may be the state that finally kills the concept of single-payer in these United States.

    *fingers crossed*

    1. No it won’t, this will just prove that the entire USA needs single-payer in order to control costs.

      1. ObamaCare….it’s not cost but refugee control!

    2. Nonsense. Government ownership and regulation, like violence, always are their own remedy. “This didn’t work because all the other states around us didn’t join in as well, so the experiment wasn’t big enough. Therefore, it must be done on a national level for it to work.”

      1. This didn’t work because all the other states around us didn’t join in as well, so the experiment wasn’t big enough. Therefore, it must be done on a national level for it to work.”

        We feel this is what went wrong with our healthcare system.

      2. “Therefore, it must be done on a national level for it to work.”

        The world–nay, the entire Solar System. Eventually the galaxy and the entire universe!

        The sad thing is that a collectivist’s mind is like that for everything.

        1. Multiverse!

  6. But the law won’t birth a full-fledged single payer system overnight: Mostly the plan is to slowly start the process of rolling people into a single system and figure out exactly how to make it work later.

    Isn’t that how England is rolling out the NHS?

  7. 14th amendment! Universal health care screws over blacks, hispanics, and asians, whose diseases are not as well researched, for whom drugs are not tested as well, etc.

  8. Okay

    1) Suderman, this is like the best thing you have ever written.

    2) We need to put up a razor-wire fence around Vermont, pronto.

    1. To keep the zombies in?

        1. 28 States Later?

          1. Now that is a funny joke god damn it!!!!!

      1. Nah, zombies you can deal with, they only want to eat your brains. Progressives want all of you.

    2. It’s such a shame that such a beautiful state is inhabited by a combination of leftist morons and parochial New England outsider haters.

      1. Apparently a good reason for the razor-wire!

      2. Remove New England and you’ve got yourself a Colorado!

        1. I love Colorado ever since I moved out here a few years ago. I, on the other hand, do not think that it needs to be made into Eastern California, unlike the jackwads up in Boulder.

  9. So, now if you get sick, all you have to do is move to Vermont.

    Talk about medical tourism.

    I give them 5 years until bankruptcy.

    1. 5 Years….they’ll be bust before the planning committee agrees on the “Statement of Core Values”!

      1. So you’re guessing 7 years?

        1. They won’t treat legal immigrants.

    2. Seems like this is giving ammo to the “We have to do it nationwide” argument.

  10. This Potter fellow sounds like a warped, frustrated old man.

  11. Well, looks like a move to VT will be off the table for me. Unless I can wait out the collapse of the system.

    1. Yeah, but after single payer collapses, VT will be a desolate wasteland inhabited by supermutants and giant radscorpions.

      1. Fallout: Maple Syrup

      2. Sounds good to me! Cheap land! I’ll buy Smuggler’s Notch & have the whole place to myself!

        1. Just the thought of being able to do Doc Dempsey’s without idiots on snowboards would make it all worthwhile.

          1. God damn it, I NutraSweeted the link.

          2. There’s always Mad River Glen, though I’ve never skiied there because I’m a wuss (they don’t make snow, so I have this idea that the…errr…cushioning will be inadequate)

      3. VT will be a desolate wasteland inhabited by supermutantsbernies and giant radscorpionstrout.

  12. “In broad strokes, the plan is for the state to eventually fold everyone into a system in which all health care payments go through the government, which will transform itself, Megatron-style, into the state’s one and only insurer and health care pay-master. One system, one government, one payer: Hence, single payer.”

    It’s an interesting look into the left wing mind that monopolies in the private sector are the great boogeyman that they’ll look to punish businesses that are not monopolies by any reasonable definition (like Microsoft), but embrace a government run monopoly as a saviour. Any problem with a private sector monopoly goes double for a government run monopoly as it can enforce its status by force of law, not by maintaining efficiency and quality.

    1. It’s because they figure gov’t represents you because you can vote for its masters, while business is accountable only to its owners, who can do anything, because you know, businesses just automatically make money.

  13. I can see New Hampshire from my door.

    1. With what telescope? Montpellier is nowhere near the border.

  14. Suderman’s article strikes the perfect tone for an audience of 15-year-olds. Sorry.

    C-

    1. Your comment strikes the perfect tone for an audience that gives a shit what you think. Wait, no it doesn’t.

      D

        1. Metagrading.

          1. Metadegrading.

            1. mediating

  15. Why is single payer crazy. Because the current US health care system is so sane. Most expensive in the world and 20% are not covered. Health care is a lot better in Canada than in the US. only ideologues disagree.

    1. Well, and, um, Canadians.

    2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    3. This Canadian, who has lived in the US and England, with first-hand experience of their respective systems, strongly disagrees.

    4. Nobody goes to Canada for health care. You would think that having cheap, high quality and universal coverage, the medical tourists would flock there, well they don’t, ever wonder why ?

      1. Right. They flock to India from Canada so they don’t have to wait 100 years to get that “elective” surgery.

      2. Actually, the main reason we don’t is that non-residents have to pay the full rate.

        When I had my glaucoma surgery, the bill was $4000 per eye. If I’d been a non-resident, I would have had to pay that or have it paid by my travel insurance.

        So, Americans DO need travel medical insurance when they visit because their coverage is not free. (We do have a fair number of deadbeats, however.)

    5. Do you know what “U.S. health care system” means?

      It means Medicare and Medicaid, which are the already in existence, government as single-payer medicine programs.

      Because medical insurers write off claims paid as losses, because employers write off premiums paid as expenses and because government is single payer for most medicine consumers, no free market exists for medicine and thus no price signals arise.

      Also, “me”, you need to substantiate your claim that “health care”, aka government paid for medicine, is better in Canada than the U.S.A.

      It’s unlikely that Canadians can get the latest treatments based on combination of the latest diagnostic equipment, therapeutic equipment and therapeutic drugs relative to Americans.

      1. Al Wayswright|5.9.11 @ 6:50PM|#
        …”Also, “me”, you need to substantiate your claim that “health care”, aka government paid for medicine, is better in Canada than the U.S.A.”…

        I’m not going to search for it again, but the standard response is a UN study which rates national healthcare and rates Canada higher than the US (and I think Cuba rates higher also).
        In the study, used to justify nationalized healthcare, one of the major rating factors is whether the nation in question has nationalized healthcare.
        It *is* the perfect example of circular reasoning.

        1. This is not to be confused with the study, that I’m not going to search for again, that rates US healthcare higher because individuals have greater choice within it. But it’s totally awesome, and actually features ovoid reasoning.

          1. Health care costs in the U.S. are higher because of things like:

            A) Insurance companies here are allowed to make a profit.

            B) Average administration costs for private insurance firms in the U.S. are 20%, whereas overhead in single-payer countries is around 5%.

            C) Health care is not a commodity, patients cannot have complete knowledge of the product because it is too complex.

            D) There is no way to establish effective market signalling which even approaches proper pricing because humans are far more emotionally attached to their lives than things like shoes, which means rational decision-making goes out the window.

            1. Health care costs in Canada are astronomically higher because of things like:

              A) Rapacious government bureaucracies such as their health “service” exist for one overriding purpose: to get more funding for their bureaucracy.

              B) The administrative costs for single-payer countries are 59%, whereas overhead in private insurance firms is only 2%. (See? I can pull figures out of my back door just as easily as any of you leftard liars can!)

              C) Health care is a commodity; government bureaucracies screw it up the same way they screw up everything else they nationalize because they have no incentive to distribute the commodity efficiently when it’s other people’s money they’re spending on other people. When you’re spending other people’s money on other people, as P.J. O’Rourke so aptly puts it, “any damn thing will do, and to hell with what it costs!”

              D) When politicians are in charge of your health care, you’d better pray they’re not from some opposing faction. You’d better hope that they won’t deny you health care because, say, you’re opposed to being ruled by a huge nanny state and having your money redistributed to bureaucrats and statist shills like Ben Wolf here, and other worthless parasites.

              Now go “care” for the Daily Kos the same way you “care” for us, parasite.

        2. Health care is better in Canada becaus;

          A) They get the same results we do

          B) Everyone gets health care

          C) They spend less

          They get more for less. I know you understand this.

          1. Health care sucks major donkey balls for Canadians because:

            A) They have much longer waiting times than we do, so their results are generally inferior to ours.

            B) All health care is rationed. Therefore, many are denied health care.

            C) They spend far more in taxes, not only on the bloated bureaucracy that runs this hellish system, but on everything else too.

            They spend more and get less. Your lies aren’t fooling anyone here, parasite.

    6. (some kind of) coverage =! good health care.

      Besides, why do you give a fuck that some of us don’t have health care coverage? Fuck off.

      1. Ah, sociopathy at its best. How dare some people care what happens to others!

        1. Every time you statist psychopaths start “caring” about something I slap my one hand over my wallet and reach for my gun with the other. You parasites always “care” about finding new hosts to bleed dry, and I ain’t gonna be one of them. Now get the hell away from my wallet, you parasite!

    7. (some kind of) coverage =! good health care.

      Besides, why do you give a fuck that some of us don’t have health care coverage? Fuck off.

      1. Plenty of people don’t care. ReasonTV did a piece on this (see featured content).

        1. Here are some of the highlights from that piece, for those of you too lazy to seek the link. Remember, “No American Should Have to Choose Between Health Insurance and Getting Drunk.”

    8. Fuck me our system is terrible. It will change simply because it is wholly unsustainable.

    9. Health care is a lot better in Canada than in the US.

      Cheap drugs purchased by the state ? Health care.

      Please try again.

    10. Why is single payer crazy? Because the current US health care system is so much less crazy. Less ability to conceal all of its expenses from prying eyes than the crooked systems in the single-payer hell-holes of the world and 20% are allowed to take their chances with not buying health insurance if they think they can do without it. Health care is a lot better in the US than in Canada. Only ideologues and nanny-state-loving parasites such as Ben Wolf here disagree.

      There, I FIFY.

  16. Any problem with a private sector monopoly goes double for a government run monopoly as it can enforce its status by force of law, not by maintaining efficiency and quality.

    Is there a difference between “single-payer” system (a monopsony) and a monopoly (single seller) that matters when discussing this issue?

    1. One is real, the other is fictional.

      1. One is real, the other is fictional.

        Not really.
        Your linked pdf is off-topic to say the least.

        The idea behind single-payer systems is to set up a virtual monopsony, with the government buying all the healthcare (or at least virtually all the healthcare – elective procedures would likely fall outside its control of the buying). In concept it is the customer and will use it’s leverage as such to negotiate reduced healthcare prices. In many ways managed care systems attempt to operate as monopsonies, but they typically don’t have the coverage that a state-wide single-payer system would. It only becomes the dreaded double-beast-monopoly/monopsony if there is a law forbidding citizens from buying supplementary insurance.

        Not saying I support single-payer, but that doesn’t mean it ain’t different than a monopoly.

    2. No. “Single Payer” means that all health insurance customers have to deal with one insurance entity. A “Single Payer” is a monopsony to physicians and hospitals but a monopoly to patients.

      1. A monopsony is a single buyer, as opposed to a single seller. There is no such thing. It has never existed. It applies to single employers and is used to justify a minimum wage. When in actuality, the closest examples have occurred on the high end of the income scale, not the lower.

        1. If all health care expenses are paid through a single entity, how does that not qualify as a “single buyer”. If you saying that such a situation does not arise naturally in an economy, fine, but that is not what we are not discussing an economically natural development here.

          1. Who is buying the services?

          2. It’s more like a ‘single-middleman’.

          3. The government would be BOTH a single-buyer AND a single seller. It’s double fuck.

            The term was coined to justify a minimum wage. Now, it is being used to justify nationalized healthcare. It was an economic fallacy then, and it still an economic fallacy.

            1. That’s what I was getting at.

    3. One is regal, the other is frictional.

  17. You know what would be even worse than this ending in disaster? This not ending in disaster (because VT is one of the richest, healthiest, smartest states) and then being forced on the rest of the country. At which point it would be a disaster.

    Socializing all of VT’s medical expenditures is foolhardy, but New Englanders spend so much less on healthcare than Missisippians that the inefficiency might be ignorable, especially for MSMslobs who are pushing an agenda in any case.

    1. All this would explain why Romneycare has been such a roaring success.

      1. It hasn’t been a success, but imagine the sort of shit-show it would’ve been if it had been tried in one of the poorer, sicker states.

  18. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and gone bankrupt from a hospitalization between jobs. All the docs who aren’t overly greedy want single payer. I agree with me today @6:32pm. If our system is so great why does it rank so low on quality and the most expensive? IT should be a right. How can you expect any person to perform their best if one family member’s hospitalization will bankrupt you?

    1. The fallacy is that high costs are created by this totally unregulated market in medical services and insurance. The reverse is true.

      1. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and gone bankrupt from a hospitalization between jobs.

        Do you get your auto insurance through your job?

        When our masters deem that the prols are worthy of a competitive individual system for health insurance as they do for auto insurance (which isn’t perfect either with all the state-level meddling), then perhaps we’ll have fewer of these problems.

    2. And you went bankrupt because why, exactly?

      Were you paying credit card balances for those snazzy clothes you bought rather than paying insurance premiums for sufficient coverage, in advance, displaying mature foresight that one day you might find yourself between jobs?

      You went bankrupt because of personal decision — poor planning for a future you did not expect, maturely — and not because of the price of medicine.

      1. You’re an idiot and karma is a bitch

        1. Talking to yourself again, rectal?

          1. epi, some days I know you have a vagina

            1. Epi,

              Give Rather her vagina back. I don’t want to know how you got it initially!

              1. He tried to crawl into it again. He likes to play rather, be my mommy!!!

        2. Exactly upon what do you stake your claim that I am an idiot, rather?

          Merely shouting such as you are resembles the behavior of idiots in most hospitals.

          Zen monks teach that you’re projecting about yourself, rather.

          1. I don’t know a bout zen monks but anyone who assumes that medical bankruptcy is the result of shopping is silly.

            Plenty of people are laid off and choose food and shelter over Cobra. Not everyone is eligible for private insurance, and serious illness can be financially devastating, even when you have money in the bank.

            A six month emergency fund can easily be spent in one day.

            1. rather|5.9.11 @ 7:33PM|#
              “I don’t know a bout zen monks but anyone who assumes that medical bankruptcy is the result of shopping is silly.”

              Your opinions have been shown to be worthless.
              Data or shut up.

                1. You just linked to a group whose advocacy of national health insurance is in its very name. This is beautiful. You’re certainly a piece of work, rectal. This wasn’t data. These were anecdotes from a conference.

                  1. OK, I am lazy tonight but I am right

                    1. and ergo, you are wrong 😉

          2. “Exactly upon what do you stake your claim that I am an idiot, rather?

            Merely shouting such as you are resembles the behavior of idiots in most hospitals.

            Zen monks teach that you’re projecting about yourself, rather.”
            Epi knows all about this

            1. I don’t know what you are saying, if anything at all

    3. “I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and gone bankrupt from a hospitalization between jobs lack of insurance coverage utterly incompetent management of my finances.”

      FIFY

      1. another brilliant remark

    4. Those supposedly non greedy doctors, actually are greedy, if they really want to help patients, then they should do so out of their own pockets. Forcing taxpayers to pay is not charity.

      Making something a right, does not magically provide it for you. You could make it a right to provide everyone with a kidney transplant, you are still not going to solve the shortage problem though.

      1. Someone doesn’t understand the idea of rights. You can’t make something a right; they’re automatic.

        1. If they were automatic, why would anyone bother discussing them?

    5. the libertarian mantra is that you were supposed to die when you became ill.

      1. My mantra is that government can solve all problems.

      2. I thought the liberal mantra was that I am supposed to die when you get ill.

        1. Paul, I would make you chicken soup if you were ill…OK, I’d go buy you chicken soup

          1. Under a single payer system, there would be a six month wait for chicken soup.

            1. Funny comment considering the origination is a Jesuit Catholic university

    6. Yup, “all” docs want single payer.

      Except for the ones who refuse to take on new Medicaid patients.

      Vermont has a doctor shortage as it is. This will be like kicking a hole in the bottom of the bucket.

    7. Our system isn’t great, because of all of the governmental involvement in the healthcare market. The employer-based system is severely flawed. Almost as flawed as the single-payer system.

      http://findarticles.com/p/arti…..ntent;col1

    8. You know what else you need to perform your best? Shelter! Food! Clothes! iPads! Is the government supposed to provide all that for you too?

      1. They’re working on it. Be patient, they aren’t very fast or efficient.

      2. You know what else you need to perform your best?

        Hitler?

      3. Don’t forget blow jobs, Restoras. Sweet, subsidized, hot 20 year old asian-administered blow jobs.

    9. kcjoe|5.9.11 @ 6:44PM|#
      “I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and gone bankrupt from a hospitalization between jobs.”
      OK, so?

      “All the docs who aren’t overly greedy want single payer.”
      And all cobblers want government-supported shoe repair.
      So what? Doctors tend to be economic ignoramuses.

      1. I’ll vouch for that.

    10. If our system is so great why does it rank so low on quality and the most expensive?

      Link please.

        1. rather|5.9.11 @ 7:36PM|#
          “Oh, please”

          Prove it or shut up.

            1. Did you actually read your own link? Nowhere was the U.S. health care system questioned. As a matter of fact, it said

              Throughout the industrialized world, children from poor or disadvantaged backgrounds are more likely to be injured or killed. Factors such as single parenthood, low levels of maternal education, teenage motherhood, substandard housing, large family size and parental drug or alcohol abuse increase the risks that a child will not survive to age 5

              You may be right in a broader sense (health care delivery effectiveness is not my strength) but your links and your understanding of them sucks.

              1. RA, I’m going to write about this but not tonight 🙂

            2. Although the under-5 mortality rate in the United States has fallen in recent decades, it is still higher than many other wealthy nations ? 2.3 times that of Iceland and more than 75 percent higher than the rate of the Czech Republic, Finland, Italy, Japan, Norway, Slovenia and Sweden.

              Wow, how many times does the “infant mortality rate” trope have to be debunked?

              The U.S. has a higher mortality rate because we actually count all infant deaths. Many foreign nations consider a child born under a whole host of circumstances that would be counted in the U.S. as a do-over.

              1. link to prove it Paul!

    11. All the docs who aren’t overly greedy want single payer.

      So, all the leftist docs want single payer?

      Thought I’d translate that for the rest of us.

      1. Leftists are more greedy than “rightists” (sp?). They want all of the perks without putting up their own capital

    12. All the docs who aren’t overly greedy want single payer.

      And is there some acceptable base level of greed doctors are “allowed” to hold to?

    13. You’re absolultely right. And to make affordable health care a right, I propose you be forced to work as a nurse for $10,000 a year. The doctors can get $15,000. I have determined those are fair wages.

    14. “If our system is so great why does it rank so low on quality and the most expensive?” But I’d be willing to bet if we were discussing public education in America, which that quote aptly describes, kcjoe would defend it to his/her dying breath!

    15. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years and …

      Anecdotes make the best public policy.

      1. I’d trust her experience over your objection based on unicorn dust

  19. This thing has so little detail it may as well have been a “sense of the House” resolution.

    They can’t answer the first question about how they’ll fund it.

    1. Why, the magical unicorns will come with lollipops and pixie dust, and spread sunshine across the entire state. It will be a beautiful thing. All you need to do is, close your eyes, click your heels and say, “there’s no place like home Canada”

    2. Is that ever necessarily an issue when progressives want to do something for the public’s good?

    3. They can’t answer the first question about how they’ll fund it.

      Single payer is unfunded by definition.

  20. Right here is where the central authority of the US government should step in, namely the Supreme Court should simply enforce the constitution and mincemeat this thing. State’s rights are overrated.

    1. State’s rights are overrated

      Wow

    2. I disagree. As long as the borders between states are open, this is kind of experiment in self-government is exactly what state sovereignty is for.

      That way people who want other people to pay for their medical care can flock to VT, while people who want to able to get heath care when they need it can flee the state like rats off the Titanic.

      1. Yeah but, when it fails miserably, they will find a way to blame teh greedy korporashuns.

        That’s why they don’t have a plan on how to pay for it. All they really have is an excuse on why they can’t implement it. To be used at the precise moment for optimum propagandist effect.

        1. Mr Whipple|5.9.11 @ 7:21PM|#
          “Yeah but, when it fails miserably, they will find a way to blame teh greedy korporashuns.”

          So, there’ll be no change, right?

          1. Just a bigger hammer to the head. That hammer keeps getting bigger and bigger. Gonna need a bigger helmet.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..ure=fvwrel

      2. And Bernie Sanders will continue to get all of his health care needs met at no expense in DC, so he will deem the program a rousing success.

      3. @Hugh: these aren’t lab rats they are citizens and they have inalienable rights that override any desired ‘experiment’.

  21. If America really wants affordable universal heathcare, it needs to draft all doctors into the TSA.

    Prostate/gyno exams and free x-rays every time you get on a bus. What could be better?

    1. They’d have to start saving the images.

  22. My question is, is the federal government going to be subsidizing this?

    If this is self sufficiant, this will be a great experiement likely ending in disaster.

    If the feds are going to keep bailing it out, they they can keep it going while makign the claim “see it works!.”

    That would be a horrible sistuation for everyone else in the country, because then it is only a matter of time before we all get a fucked up system.

    1. Not initially. But despite being one of the smallest states in the onion, Vermont will be dubbed “too big to fail,” with predictable results.

  23. Mass exodus of doctors from Vermont in 3… 2…. 1….

    -jcr

    1. This group of docs says it’s not really single-payer. Setting the bet up for win-win.

      1. “and opens the way for the continuation of multi-tiered care.”

        And there you have it folks – just like in Canada – its better for everyone to have crappy care then have the chance that someone might get better care.

      2. Physicians for a National Health Program (www.pnhp.org) is an organization of 18,000 doctors who support single-payer national health insurance, an improved Medicare for all

        Good

        1. rather|5.9.11 @ 7:48PM|#
          “Physicians for a National Health Program (www.pnhp.org) is an organization of 18,000 doctors who support single-payer national health insurance, an improved Medicare for all
          Good”

          Next, please tell us about an organization of cobblers who lobby for ‘free’ shoe repair.
          Any reason to think the economic literacy of the two groups is different? Didn’t think so.

          1. Make up your mind libertarian because you can’t have it both ways. This doctor’s organization wants universal health and you cry greed; others don’t, and your meme is slavery

        2. 18000/how many?

          1. Don’t change the subject
            Pick one smartass

            1. Do we have to pick a smartass?

            2. You can pick smart friends, you can pick your ass, but….

              1. Sorry for the confusion; I’m well aware that libertarians pick their asses. Apologies, I should have made a ‘cleaner’ comment

    2. The Vermont plan promises a public program open to all residents of the state in 2017, but even then it would allow a continuing role for private insurance. This would negate many of the administrative savings that could be attained by a true single-payer program, and opens the way for the continuation of multi-tiered care.

      They’ve already done it wrong, which is why it’ll fail. We’re done here.

      1. But they have retained the two things essential to the creation of any bloated bureaucracy:

        1) A provision to keep the big money happy.

        2) A way to blame teh evul korporashuns when it inevitably goes wrong.

    3. If the Canada brain drain and the Massachusetts brain drain didn’t teach the members of the First Church of Single-Payerism, what do you thing a Vermont brain drain would show them?

  24. oh, picture is funny because looks like a d***! is funny…

      1. yes, a door.

  25. The sooner some state (please not Pennsylvania!) jumps feet first into single payer, the better. I want its failure demonstrated clearly, with no question, for all 49 other states to witness. It’s the only way we’ll avoid this mess nationally. Too bad for those suckers, but the rest of us will benefit from the laboratory of democracy.

    1. Unless the Feds bail it out

    2. Ummm, did that theory work with Romneycare?

      1. Romneycare is not single-care and yes it is thoroughly discredited among most people except the “policy elite.” The excuses will wear thin with pure single payer. They will blame outside capitalists of course or the existence of freedom in the other states. But those will ring increasingly hollow.

  26. One system, one government, one payer: Hence, single payer.

    This comes awfully close to self-Godwinning the thread:

    “Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein F?hrer: Deutchland!”

    1. prolefeed|5.9.11 @ 8:07PM|#
      “One system, one government, one payer: Hence, single payer.
      This comes awfully close to self-Godwinning the thread:…”

      You’re closer than you might imagine. It’s 700 pages of a (perfectly predictable) slow train-wreck as Hitler and his entourage demolish an economy since Hitler doesn’t want to hear about ‘economic theories’.
      “Wages of Destruction”:
      http://www.amazon.com/Wages-De…..426&sr=1-1

    2. They didn’t say “Hence, Deutchland.”

  27. Single-payer legal care, please. After all, the US Constitution does say something about a right to counsel.

    And there’s no lawyer in this country that does anything worth more than minimum wage.

    (I’ll let you figure out for yourself how much of the above is serious.)

    1. This could be unconstitutional for the states since the constitution forbids states from interfering with private contracts. It was put in to protect free-trade which this may be violating.

      1. OK; amend the constitution to allow it.

  28. This is great news. The states are ideally supposed to be “labs of democracy.” People have been painting single payer as either a panacea or as the Devils health care for decades, now we can see how it does. Ideologues who are so sure of their worldviews should be happy, it’s bound to be re-affirmed so don’t worry, right, and those of us open-minded and waiting for empirical reality to dictate our views will have a test to help us out.

    1. It would be better if a similar state, say, New Hampshire, were to implement a truly free market healthcare system (delivery and insurance), then compare the results of the two. If all you are going to compare a single-payer system to, is the shit we have now, well, it’s not a valid comparison to a free market system.

      1. Mr Whipple|5.9.11 @ 10:01PM|#
        …”If all you are going to compare a single-payer system to, is the shit we have now, well, it’s not a valid comparison to a free market system.”

        No it isn’t, but we don’t have that option.
        It’s a comparison between a screwed-up system and one that’s even *more* screwed-up.
        I’ll go out on a limb and predict that screwing it up more will make it worse.

        1. “I’ll go out on a limb and predict that screwing it up more will make it worse.”

          Isnt that what Obamacare is going to do to New Hampshire?

    2. Ideologues don’t care about data.

      If this works, those that oppose single payer will say it’s because VT is so small- it can’t hope to be effective on a national level.

      If it doesn’t work, then those who support single payer will also find some excuse. It wasn’t done on a national level, and therefore VT couldn’t hope to effectively negotiate with drug companies/keep greedy doctors within state borders.

    3. MNG|5.9.11 @ 9:32PM|#
      This is great news. The states are ideally supposed to be “labs of democracy…..”
      For once, I agree with MNG.

    4. Great news unless, you know, you live in Vermont and didn’t want any of this. But hey, democracy, awesome!

      1. Yeah, if you don’t think pure democracy is wonderful, you must support Lani Guinier, right, MNG?
        Dipshit.

  29. LOL-Megatron Style

    I have no problem doing this on a state level simply because I don’t live there. Wait until doctors flee because they don’t want to do business there. People forget that doctoring is a business that wants to make a profit like any other business and I have never seen a business that does well with regulations. Regulations stifle creativity that is needed to solve problems and creates a one-size fit all ‘system’. Imagine if food was regulated uniformaly from one fast food place to the next. We would have the same combo meals, the same fries, same size burger, simply because no fast food place can make something different for its customers. They can only do what they are told/regulated to do and since those regulations apply equally to all every service will become the same and what that service is will become dictated by government.

    Welcome to USSA

  30. THis might be my imagination but does that picture of Vermont’s symbol look like a man urinating on something?

  31. Let me lay out how this is gonna work:

    1. Doctor’s leave VT
    2. Liberals claim it’s because of the student loans that they took out. If doctor’s didn’t have to worry about paying back student loans, then they would charge less. Therefore, not only must the state pay for medical care, it must also pay for college/medical school.
    3. College costs skyrocket, because they are still in the hands of greedy, private individuals. Post-high school education must be nationalized.
    4. Now that a college degree is worth so much less, many employers won’t even consider taking a high school graduate, let alone a high school dropout. Therefore, the government must mandate that all people complete a college education, for their own good.
    5. When none of this works, blame the greedy corporations: It’s those damn textbook manufacturers fault!
    6. Continue to nationalize industries to remove “greedy” capitalists.
    7. When common people are revealed to be just as greedy as corporations, kill/arrest/force them to work.
    8. Utopia!

  32. What are you afraid of Peter, your such a dick.

  33. Good on them mountain socialists! Now, if only the feds let Utah, Wyoming or other benighted flyover states experiment with market-based healthcare, we would be in good shape. Infact, all a state has to do is allow insurance plans from any other state to be offered. The state-level deregulation can proceed after this very simple first step. Then voila.

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  35. If it doesn’t work, Vermont’s doctor is going to move.

  36. One word to debunk the usefulness of a single-payer system: ILLINOIS

  37. Cost control = rationing

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