Terrorism

All Those Operational Details the Obama Administration Gave About the bin Laden Raid? Maybe They Weren't Quite True.

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Can it really be the situation room if Wolf Blitzer isn't there?

What a difference a day makes. Yesterday: Obama administration officials said an armed Osama bin Laden was shot and killed in a firefight while using one of his wives as a human shield. The wife, we were told, was also killed in the process.

Today: Maybe bin Laden wasn't armed. Or using the woman as a human shield. And, well, she wasn't actually his wife. Also, um, she didn't die. But aside from that…

From The New York Times

The new Defense Department narrative released by the White House, and read at a White House news briefing on Tuesday, said that one of Bin Laden's wives was shot in the leg as she charged members of the commando team on the third floor of the compound.

"In the room with Bin Laden, a woman – Bin Laden's wife – rushed the U.S. assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed," the brief statement said. "Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed."

Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, read the narrative in an attempt to correct statements by administration officials who had suggested that Bin Laden was armed during the raid.

Under questioning, Mr. Carney said that the White House stood by its claim on Monday that Bin Laden had resisted capture, but said that "resistance does not require a firearm." Mr. Carney said that the new narrative was the result of "fresh" information.

…On Monday, John O. Brennan, the top counterterrorism adviser to President Obama, said he believed that Bin Laden's wife had been killed while trying to shield the terror leader during the 40-minute raid.

But the narrative released Tuesday by Mr. Carney suggested that the woman who died in the raid was part of another family living at the compound. The narrative says that woman was shot and killed on the first floor, not the third floor, where Bin Laden was found and killed.

Let's assume, for the moment, that no bad faith was involved in the initial transmission of these unfortunate untruths, and that it was all a result of a misunderstanding, not a deliberate plan to spread a convenient story about bin Laden dying a particularly pathetic death. As anyone who's ever played a game of telephone knows, it's tough enough to get a bunch of people sitting in a room next to each other to keep a story straight; in the fog of kinetic military action, it's surely even tougher.

But that's the point: This sort of revision should be a reminder to anyone tempted to take the official story at face value before it's been independently reported and verified. It's easy to ignore the fact that the vast majority of the details reported about the raid came via the usually-talking-point-filled mouths of administration sources, not from firsthand accounts, independent reports, or documentation. All we know is what various senior officials said happened, not what actually happened. This is why it would be helpful for the administration to release documentation—images, video, audio, whatever—that can verify the official account of the raid. But so far, they're not even saying exactly how Obama and other White House officials tracked the operation's progress, only that they followed along in real time. 

The administration deserves a small amount of credit for willingly issuing what amounts to an embarrassing correction—but only a small amount. If you're going to stand in front of the world as senior representatives of the United States government and confidently assert that some historic event happened in some particular way, then you'd better be certain you've got your story straight. By failing to get basic who, what, and where information right the first time around, the administration has undermined its own credibility on what ought to have been a straightforward victory and arguably made it easier for the inevitable conspiracy theories to spread. Good for them for correcting their mistakes. But they should've gotten it right the first time around. 

NEXT: "No Nation Was Ever Ruined By Trade"

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  1. Is it just me or is Jay Carney the smarmiest sack of shit on earth? I know press secretaries get paid to lie. But Carney seems awful even by the low standards of press secretaries. He reminds me of a preppy villain out of a John Hughes movie.

    And yeah, it looks like Obama went full gansta on his ass. So much for the theory that we would have captured him alive if we could have.

    1. Well his last name is Carney. I tell ya you just can’t trust carnival folk.

      1. they have small hands…
        and they smell of cabbage…

        1. And I used to think Robt Gibbs was as oily as you could get…where in the fuck does Obama come up with these weasels?

          1. I pull them out of my ass.

          2. They’re libs. Calling them weasels isn’t fair to weasels.

  2. I’ll believe nothing a democrat says until they produce a corpse.

    1. When they release the pictures of the corpse they should be captioned “That is the Chicago Way”

      1. I guess that explains why they sent him to sleep with the fishes. Old habits die hard.

        1. bring a gun to the fight, right?

    2. But you believed the yellowcake, WMD, and “mobile weapons labs” lies that the Bushpigs told you?

      1. Shrike, this is a libertarian site, not a conservative one. Please learn the difference. We do not worship Bush here.

        1. shriek’s too fucking stupid to learn, PIRS. He’s been told this many, many times. But what do you expect from a mongoloid?

          1. Epi, Dude… apparently mongoloid is not the preferred nomenclature…

            1. Gilmore, we’re not talking about the people who built the railroads …

            2. Retard? Imbecile? Which one would you choose? They all apply equally to shriek.

              1. Someone told me couple threads ago that it’s insensitive to people with Down’s Syndrome. And Genghis Khan. You big meanie! ‘Mongrel’-oid is supposedly the PC replacement. But I think that is insulting to dogs.

                1. The Iraq lies are now equivalent to whether OBL was armed or not?

                  All of you partisan fucks are hoisted.

                  1. All of you partisan fucks are hoisted.

                    Nothing like the cool, calm voice of bipartisan reason to show us the way.

                  2. What the fuck are you talking about?

                  3. Maybe Shrike can explain how an unarmed, sickly man in his mid to late 50s, armed only with his wife, somehow “resisted capture” when surrounded by young, strong, highly trained and heavily armed Navy SEALS who were trying to apprehend him, to the point he needed to be shot dead.

                  4. We’re so very much alike,
                    everyone can see but shriike.

                2. Bullshit, Gilmore. I didn’t say anything about the use of the word mongoloid being insensitive to anyone and I didn’t say “mongreloid” was its PC replacement – because it’s not. I simply asked you a question about your intended meaning, because you seemed to be connoting the idea of mixture, which is much more in line with the meaning of the word mongrel than mongol or mongoloid. It’s not my fault if you sound like Archie Bunker.

                  1. You aint from around here, is you… boy?

                    Make that, ‘meathead’. Now get me a beer!

                    Relax and try and think of this as socializing rather than ‘point scoring’.

                    Your etymological preferences are in fact likely more apropos. Which is why Epi’s comment was funny. Which is why I mentioned it was funny. Mongols & Mongoliods everywhere are proud you rise to speak in their defense.

                    Now, we only need someone to defend dogs of mixed birth, and New Yorkers.

                3. I gotta go look up this “Mongrel-oid” business. That’s like replacing “Negro” with “Niggero”.

        2. Bullshit.

          The Bush voters run wild in the comments section.

          Take a poll – they defend the worst of his policies. Many even defend his protection of the Fannie Mae racket.

          John even defends that birdbrain Palin.

          1. Shrike, I would like you to name some of the handles you have seen defend Bush’s war in Iraq or his TARP bill or even the PATRIOT Act.

            Name them. You made the claim and the rules of logic say the burden of proof is upon you. So name the handles.

            1. ? Strangers in the night,
              exchanging insults… ?

              1. Thou art some fool, I am loath to beat thee.

          2. Shrikie, thanks for your blind loyalty. Don’t let them get away with criticizing my policies or comparing me with YUCKY Bush.

            1. After all, I am brighter than Bush and Palin!

          3. The Bush voters run wild in the comments section.

            I liked his tax cuts….everything else was pretty much shit.

            John and I are probably the biggest Bush “supporters” I know of here and I never voted for him. You will have to ask John who he voted for.

            Anyway PIRS question is still open to you.

            Name a Bush supporter that comments here.

      2. Only the sheople, Shrike, only the sheople.

        You, right now, can not prove that OBL is dead anymore than you can prove that 4 saudis, armed with boxcutters, brought down the twin towers.

      3. Hey Sheik….your guys can’t even take credit without fucking up!

        If it wasn’t so funny it would be sad.

    3. Magnus – you are the kind of Bushpig partisan that others tell me doesn’t exist here.

      In fact – they JUST said it!

      1. You do unbend your noble strength, to think so brainsickly of things.

      2. Bushpig Obamapig Bushpig Obamapig.

    4. That the administration can’t even come up with a consistant story PRUVES that it is fake! It’s the insiders! Demand Osama’s long form death certificate!

      1. Okay, according to you, if one does not instantly accord credibility to each and every pronouncement of the state, one is a few fries short of a happy meal.

        1. It’s not our fault that this administration collectively is the biggest lying sack of shit since Tricky Dick. That’s why it has to go through the pain of releasing birth certificates and murder scene photos. It’s their own damn fault.

          1. Additionally, governments are usually always full of shit. The burden of proof should ALWAYS be on them to prove they’re not lying.

            1. This/YourNewsletter/etc.

  3. “..the third floor, where Bin Laden was found and killed.”

    At least he wasn’t living in the basement like some people.

    1. Hey! My mom says she doesn’t smell me as much down there.

  4. Apparently there were a number people who survived the raid. I’d be very interested to hear their account. Sounds like they were all rounded by the Paki police, though.

    1. Pretty sure the word you just used for “Pakistani” is roundly considered a slur.

      1. ..I just assumed the slur was intended.

        1. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

      2. I don’t know if I’d say “roundly.” I’m guessing there are many folks like myself who aren’t familiar enough with Pakistanis to know the proper slurs.

        1. The more you know…

          1. Call em all Hadji, like in Jonny Quest

      3. I did not know that. If the residents of Uzbekistan are called Uzbeks, why are the residents of Pakistan called Pakistanis? just curious

        1. Uzbekistan is named after the Uzbek people while Pakistan is a description of the place (“land of the pure” in Urdu).

          1. So why would being call the “pures” be an insult? I think its only an insult since it was adopted as the appropriate shortform by cockney BNP hellraisers

          2. Actually, Pakistan was an acronym for the various bits and pieces that made it:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L…..mologies#P

            1. Huh neat. Thanks for the link

      4. It’s Urdu for “pure”.

      5. In the antipodes it’s just an abbreviation.

        1. I was thinking more along the lines of “wtf racists, can you please not use abbreviations for your slurs? Lazy fucking, abbreviation stealing, crackers.”

    2. I don’t give a shit what any of them have to say. I bet a large sum that most if not all o the operatives in the raid had helmet mounted cameras. From what I’ve ben told, it’s pretty standard procedure, and for perhaps the biggest raid our military has ever performed, I can’t imagine that it isn’t on video, and from multiple perspectives.

      I’ll be watching wikileaks.

  5. US troops were yards from Osama bin Laden house in 2008 ? WikiLeaks files

    US embassy cables show soldiers were due to perform a routine posting ‘training the trainers’ of Pakistan’s federal military unit

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/medi…..en-hideout

    1. He was right by their officer training academy. So that makes sense. It really is like finding Whitey Bulger living in a compound outside the FBI acadamy in Quantico, Virginia in the same neighborhood as two retired Directors of the FBI.

      1. So $3 billion/yr in aid to Pakistan and they probably used some of that money to build this very compound. Hell, it probably had some crappy ADT security system.

        Fantastic.

        A country of 200 million with a $1000 gdp per capita, virulently anti-American, and sitting on piles of nukes, that we helped pay for, now gets to watch us discuss in what specific ways we ignored their sovereignty and shot up a building next to their Military training facilities.

        How about we just shut up already?

      2. It’s crazy. He was literally half a mile from their main military academy, so close that if they had JDAM’d the place to oblivion, they’d have busted up a few buildings there too. And 30 miles from Islamabad and 15 miles from the contested region of Kashmir. Which means India, which aren’t they technically still at war with? Also, isn’t the immediate area just lousy with the homes of senior Pakistani officials?

        All of this is to suggest that, stealth helicopters or not, someone in Pakistan got tipped off about the raid beforehand. At least to tell them that it wasn’t the Indians planning any hijinks. Can’t you see the Pakistani high command freaking out that India was trying some Pearl Harbor kind of shit and retaliating? That would be embarrassing…

        Further, there were reports that the compound was under 24/7 surveillance for the months it took to plan the raid. That takes drones. Satellites can’t keep up 24/7. Drones that can orbit the aforementioned 30 miles from the capital with no one noticing. For months. Isn’t India supposed to getting started with the whole stealth thing?

        (Or people actually on the ground with cameras/uplinks. Which could be unpleasant if they were ratted out before the raid.)

        Whole lot of things to feel uncomfortable with, if you’re Pakistan. So, either they were partially in on the raid, and just sold out a client who was extremely popular with a large minority in their country. Or they’re criminally incompetent at defending their capital. Neither is savory.

        1. From Al Jazeera’s bin Laden live blog (there’s an obvious joke in there somewhere):

          Speaking to Al Jazeera, Robert Fisk, a journalist with the Independent, a UK newspaper, who has interviewed bin Laden, said that people should stop talking about the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), the Pakistan security forces, as if they were a single entity.

          “I called up one of the men I know last night and put it to him, ‘look, you know, this house was very big, come on, you must have had had some idea.’

          “What he said to me was ‘sometimes it’s better to survey people than to attack them.’

          http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liv…..dens-death

        2. either they were partially in on the raid, and just sold out a client who was extremely popular with a large minority in their country. Or they’re criminally incompetent at defending their capital.

          There’s a saying that addresses this dichotomy, I forget how it goes….

          1. so much for my PhD:

            “Al Jazeera’s Laden Been (a)live blog”

      3. It really is like finding Whitey Bulger living in a compound outside the FBI acadamy in Quantico, Virginia

        John = funny coincidence-quote by pakistani officials here:

        http://www.foreignpolicy.com/a…..a?page=0,2

        But in an interview with the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg, Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s loquacious ambassador to Washington, compared the decade-long manhunt for bin Laden with the FBI’s fruitless search for Irish mobster Whitey Bolger. “It wouldn’t have been possible to get Bin Laden without Pakistan’s help,” Haqqani argued. “People are piling on this one, but the fact is, it is very plausible for someone to live undetected for long periods of time.”

        The comparison is *apt*! APT!! (read: Lisa Simpson) He sort of misses the obvious, which is that Whitey wasn’t getting found because *the FBI didn’t want him found*. Or maybe he was just patting the ISI on the back for a job (mostly) well done?

        1. Isn’t the smart money that Whitey’s in an unmarked hole at the bottom of some bog near Quincy? Dead men, unlike senior citizen Irish gangsters with a taste for the good life, can be hard to find.

          What makes the FBI think he’s still alive?

          1. Other than “he’s still cashing our checks,” of course.

  6. What is their motive?

    We know why the Bush gang kept changing the narrative on the Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch stories.

    1. They just went out and killed him and made a clown out of every moron like you who ran around for eight years yelling Bushpig.

      1. Clown? I am all for killing terrorists.

        Just not spending $2 trillion and 4400 US lives to Nation Build in Iraq.

        1. Sure you are shrike. Right up until someone on the other team starts doing it.

          1. I am sure that you were on the Iraq War cheerleading team, John.

            You are GOP all the way and you know it.

            But I am told you don’t exist here!

            1. It’s hilarious watching a braindead partisan scumbag like you, shriek, accuse someone else of being partisan.

              You’re obviously too dumb to know what projection is, but maybe you should go look it up, you hyper redneck moron.

              1. Tell him what you really think.

                1. That cocksucker* Episiarch adopts my creative insults and turns them on me as somehow clever.

                  * = one of Episiarch’s original insults – but with less emphasis on “original”.

                  1. Thou wilt be as valiant as the wrathful dove, or most magnanimous mouse.

              2. Hey! Why don’t you two homos get a room?

              3. John really is partisan, but so is shrike.

              4. You’re obviously too dumb to know what projection is, but maybe you should go look it up, you hyper redneck moron.

                Is projection the new “I know you are but what am I?” retort?

            2. All our trolls love to tu quoque

              1. well, everyone does it!

                1. I feel bad now. Is Episiarch…you know…”special?”

                  1. Yes – Episiarch has a special chromosome.

                    1. Oh shriek, you’re so stupidly bad at this that you have to copy my insults. You make this too easy. Tell me about the market, shrieky!

                    2. Tell us about the price of gold, Shrike.

                    3. Yes – Episiarch has a special chromosome.

                      I sure hope shrike calls Epi a Bushpig voter.

                      That would be funny.

            3. iirc we used to make fun of John a lot

              1. We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic.

                Ha ha ha. Heh heh.

                Oh.

    2. Sagging pole numbers?

      1. “Sagging pole.” Tee hee hee.

  7. A dead cult leader, conflictng stories, a hastily disposed-of body, in other words we can expect a Law & Order episode about this in September…

    1. *Angrily furrows eyebrows*

      *Takes another ADA out on a date*

    2. Spoiler Alert: anti-abortion Christians did it.

  8. Bin Laden is dead purple monkey dishwasher.

  9. So what happens if if ten days we learn that Osama bin Laden died seveal years ago? I mean if he got all of those other “operational details” wrong he might have gotten that one wrong as well.

    1. Why should any person, equipped with even a modicum of common sense, believe anything spouted by the state and its army of losers?

      1. The state does not lie 101% of the time. Yes they are untrustworthy in the extreme, but to automatically believe the opposite of what they say is absolute nuttery. Otherwise you end up not even believing the NOIAA time.

        Frankly, that different people in the government don’t have identical stories hints strongly that it’s most likely the truth. Because that’s what happens out in the real world.

        1. Absolute nuttery is LM’s MO, Buckster. I thought you knew that.

        2. The real world also consists of the reality that if one tends to prevaricate and is “untrustworthy in the extreme”, one can hardly be heard to complain that one “does not lie 101 % of the time”.

        3. Logic 101:

          ( Real event ==> stories differ )

          <=/=>

          ( Stories differ ==> real event )

    2. To be fair did they get it wrong or did the dumb ass media get it wrong? Most of the “details” that have come out in the last two days have been from unnamed sources. It is not the Whitehouse’s fault that the media will believe anything anyone with a security clearance will tell them. I bet I could have called those dumb asses up and fed them a line of bullshit that ended up on drudge as information from “an unnamed government source”.

      1. As taxpayers, aren’t we all “an unnamed government source”? (works for revenue, why not information?)

    3. Well, if Osama were a zombie, then that explains the head shot and the second bullet. Double tap.

    4. Ummm, if he died several years ago, I think the Bush administration would have taken credit for that.

    5. What I like is, after the talking heads were talking all night about how great it was that we have possession of the body so we can prove he’s really dead (and of course giving Obama credit for this) — it turns out we don’t actually have the body anymore, just some photos of a 40% intact head.

      1. Back when we were a civilized culture Osama’s corpse would’ve been hung in chains for a while (months-year or so). There would be no doubt

        1. Yes, we Harkonnens used to really know how to make a grand public spectacle of our executions. Why, decomposing bodies were a regular fixture on the White House lawn back in those halcyon days.

    6. Well, if they release pictures of something that isn’t a skeleton, I guess we’ll know. Cuz there’s no way the Bush administration had pictures of dead OBL and sat on them.

  10. I think I’ll just wait until Oliver Stone’s movie, if it’s all the same to you people.

  11. “resistance does not require a firearm.”

    Perhaps Osama was attempting to photograph or videotape the raid.

    1. He is furry enough to be mistaken for a dog…

    2. He might have been trying to flush the evidence.

      Also his dog was barking.

      1. Also his dog beard was barking.

        ftfy

    3. If you yell STOP RESISTING!! enough, it’s OK to shoot people.

      Duh
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JsYsdQ6o9Y

  12. This seems like nit-picking and ill serves any cause, least of all Suderman’s credibility.

    1. Did we shoot an unarmed person or someone defending themselves with a gun is nit picking?

      1. From the point of view of the vast majority of Americans, when that person is Osama Bin Laden, yes. What planet are you from?

        1. A planet where I don’t take the belief of the “vast majority of American’s”, as pronounced by you, to mean shit. But yeah keep enjoying your hollywood revenge fantasy.

        2. It’s all okay cause they lovingly cleansed the cadaver of nits before they dumped it in the sea.

      2. an exit wound in the middle of someones face makes for a difficult photo-op.

    2. Yeah, the difference between “he was shooting back from behind his wife” and “he was unarmed and there may have been a woman in the room” is pretty minor.

      1. If he had a woman in his room, he was armed.

    3. So Carney was nitpicking when he announced these corrections? Yup Suderman definitely lost credibility by relaying Carney’s words.

    4. I agree with Max on this. Details on stuff like this are ALWAYS misreported for at least a week.

      Now, go suck Ron Paul’s cock! God, I love that line.

  13. Now they think it might have been Clyde bin Laden, Osama’s layabout brother who coulda been somebody if only he’d applied himself…

  14. I’ll wait a week and see the narrative changes again.

    1. There are focus groups going on right now to help get the story right.

  15. Wait, a man who potentially knew the entire internal workings of Al-Qaeda, who was unarmed, and whose only routes of escape was shot dead by expertly-trained SEALs team…and no fucking liberal-besides Michael Moore or Dennis Kucinich-is fucking raising there voice about the intelligence we lost, let alone the murder of an unarmed, dialysis patient?

    Fuck!!!! Fuck every goddamn liberal that every fucking complained about Bush but has their lips zipped up with Obama. FUCK ‘EM ALL!!!!

    1. I meant to say, “routes of escape were blocked.”

      Sorry, I can forget things when I’m so FUCKING PISSSED!

    2. Again, if there’s a decent CT to this—and there almost certainly isn’t one, despite the weird burial at sea thing—then I think it’s that UBL got grabbed alive and is currently saying everything he knows in some dungeon.

      Where that dungeon is, who knows: either U.S. owned and quiet, in which case Diego Garcia or some other base elsewhere in the MidEast; or in one of the black sites elsewhere. At the end of which, his usefulness being over, he disappears forever. I think prolefeed came up with this one yesterday or day before. No rescue attempt, no bitching about a trial, AQ thinks he’s dead and not telling them what he knows: lot of advantages to doing it this way.

      OTOH, the U.S. did end up releasing a few renditioned guys that got kidnapped/imprisoned/tortured by mistake. That guy from Macedonia, kidnapped in Germany, comes to mind. And a regime bloodthirsty enough to do that to UBL, probably wouldn’t let an innocent go. Probably.

      1. This would be good, but our government has already said we got a “treasure trove of information” from the hard drives and computer disks. The AQ guys who haven’t already holed up in a cave somewhere will be changing their identities/routines based just on this. Anything we get directly from UBL will pale in comparison to what we retrieve from their computers.

        1. Unfortunately, bin Laden had a fairly unexpected password, “penisbaconwhiskylover911,” and it’s taking the analysts longer than expected to break it.

        2. but our government has already said we got a “treasure trove of information” from the hard drives and computer disks.

          The Cover-Story works again.

          *Boosh*

  16. Police: Minn. man killed stepdaughter for leaving Muslim customs behind

    A Coon Rapids man went to suburban Detroit and fatally shot his 20-year-old stepdaughter in the head because she left Minnesota to live with her father and was not adhering to Muslim customs, police said Tuesday.

    Rahim A. Alfetlawi, 45, was charged Monday in Warren, Mich., with first-degree premeditated murder and two weapons offenses. Alfetlawi remains jailed without bond.

    Alfetlawi is accused of killing Jessica Mokdad with a single gunshot to the head Saturday afternoon as she was in her grandmother’s home.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/121175819.html

    1. Coon Rapids

      Racist!!!!!!

    2. Can’t be true; I have heard it from quite a few reputable sources that not only are teh moozlims recreating the early medieval Caliphate here, but indeed sharia law has already been instituted in Michigan. That being the case, this man will not be charged.

    3. We must support the right of Muslim women to wear the hijab. That’s all I have to say about this matter.

  17. Um, bad link? NY Times link goes to opentable.

    Not sure how we have 60 comments without anyone noticing.

    1. We don’t read. We fling.

      1. I don’t know you but i like you

    2. Maybe the problem is on your end.

  18. “According to a representative of the Ministry of Truth, further clarifications will be issued as conditions warrant.”

  19. Maybe this is the John Kyl “Not-intended-to-be-a-factual-statement” line of reasoning.

  20. OBL was killed during intercourse with a goat. It was mistaken for a wife, as it was better looking than all the humans on the premises. The goat was under age, but this information was not released out of respect for the Muslim religion and the powerful goat voting block.
    There was also a crapload of weed present, and it was peremptorily smoked to prevent it from falling into the hands of the children…

    1. It was mistaken for a wife, as it was better looking than all the humans on the premises.

      Pics or it didn’t happen. *preparing my bunk*

    2. I’m safe now.

  21. @OsamaInHell Had I known they were going to release my photo, I would have manscaped.

  22. JSOC acted before Barack”Hussein” Obama could warn his Muslim pals in Pock-ee-stohn.
    The Kenyan-in-Chief tried to call ’em back so they wrecked a chopper to remind him of what happened to Jimmy Carter

  23. I believe the US always knew where he was (if that was even bin laden that they killed sunday).

    Here are the points that bother me.

    1. Bin laden denied involvement in the 9/11/2001 attack. He’s probably the 1st islamo-terrorist to ever do so. In fact, the entire point is to say “IT WAS US”. In fact, during the antifada in Israel, multiple so-called islamo-terrorist would take credit for bombings in Tel Aviv.

    2. They killed Bin Laden and threw his body in the river because of

    A. No country wanted his body
    B. Comply with Islamic law (lol)
    C. Not to build a shrine

    Points A and B are laughable at best. Point C is the best. I think there’s nothing more that the CIA would want than a central location to photograph Al Qada pilgrims.

    There’s something fishy here. And, skeptics like myself are always looked at like weirdos. That we believe that the entire operation didn’t happen. I don’t doubt that there was a swat-team raid that killed people. And, it may well be that the killed Bin Laden.

    Bin Laden’s Ghost has been used for the procurement scam committed by the ex-ceo of Halliburton and others. He was either killed in late 2001 and we’ve had a phony stand in or he was actually still alive (and not really a threat) and we knew where he was all of the time.

    I think the US is truly running out of money and needed to show show form of victory before bailing from the Middle east.

    1. I think the US is truly running out of money and needed to show show form of victory before bailing from the Middle east.

      From your lips to God’s ear.

    2. skeptics like myself are always looked at like weirdos

      That’s not why you’re looked at like you’re a weirdo.

    3. 3. The flag moved and there is no wind on the moon.

  24. I think the really funny thing is how the botched details appear to have been born of competing impulses:

    1. The impulse to make the raid seem really badass = the story that bin Laden was firing

    2. The impulse to make Osama seem like a coward and a clown = the story that he used his wife as a human shield.

    The two stories don’t merge well.

    1. If you’re evil it is badass to use your wife as a human shield.

      1. Fluffy, please correct me if I am misrepresenting what you posted yesterday, but it appeared as if you were okay with taking OBL out in the manner he was allegedly killed.

        I just don’t see how libertarianism can ever be compatible with a nation state invading foreign territory for the purpose of murdering ANYBODY.

        First, as you know, libertarianism, itself, is hardly compatible with the existence of any state as the state, in order to survive, must piss all over the non-aggression principle. We all know that if a state had to compete with private entities to provide roads, water, defense, etc, it would soon vanish without the ability to steal and uniform countless numbers of losers to serve as its goons.

        Even if one buys the government conspiracy theory that OBL and Al Kaline were behind the 9/11 attacks, by what stretch of libertarian philosophy can a libertarian justify the deliberate murder perpetrated by the state in a foreign land without the consent of said foreign land and under the cover of darkness?

        The non-agression priniciple does not permit a nation state to hunt down and kill individuals anywhere else in the world just because it believes the individuals were responsible for mass murder. By that logic, the Pakistanis would be justified in taking out the mass murderer in the White House.

        1. The non-agression priniciple does not permit a nation state to hunt down and kill individuals anywhere else in the world just because it believes the individuals were responsible for mass murder.

          The individual does not have a monopoly on violence.

          1. I thought that it was Rocky Colavito that helped Bin Laden plan 9/11. Huh.

            1. He was a pretty good ballplayer from what I have heard. Not as good as Kaline though.

        2. It’s quite simple, Mike.

          Say I snuck my way into Pakistan PERSONALLY, and busted into Osama’s house.

          And Osama tries to fuck with me and run away, or have his guards shoot me.

          Can I kill Osama? Personally?

          I say yes.

          That means I can delegate that right to another.

          I officially delegate my personal “kill Osama” right to Obama and to the Navy SEALs.

          So it’s all good.

          1. Whoa whoa whoa. That would be trespassing, and last I knew trespassers have no right to resist the property owner enforcing his property rights and/or defending himself.

            1. $20 million reward, dead or alive. Entering Osama’s pad to kill him is just like grabbing a bail jumper.

              The collateral damage prob isn’t covered under common law but who in the USA would indict?

        3. So, in anarcho-utopia, when a guy murders your family and runs off to the mountains halfway around the world, you just deal? Capture him and personally take him back for some sort of anarchist trial?

          Or do you find his ass and kill him?

          1. Vendetta bitchez! Kill his son’s first (or if a matrilineal society, his daughters)

            I pine for anarchotopia. Mostly just to see how bad it pisses off the utilitarian minarchists.

          2. You capture him and bring him before arbitration hopefully…and doing it without using hundreds of billions of dollars of other peoples’ money against their will and killing tens of thousands of innocents would be nice too.

  25. I doubt he is alive but I also impugn that they would dump the body without an autopsy. Muslim, or not, a hell of a lot of info comes from a vivisection

        1. You have a blog? I thought those were just for like famous people and scientists and shit.

  26. You know, it’s possible that we didn’t even shoot him. He might have just told one of his guards to do it when he saw the number of SEALs coming for his ass, to avoid capture. Of course we would claim it was one of our guys – it’s a better story.

    I don’t think we would just point-blank execute him. He’d be an information goldmine

    1. Also, that would explain his lack of a gun. I doubt he would just be walking around unarmed or cowering in a corner during a firefight.

      1. *Puts on conspiracy theorist hat*

        Or the SEALs did execute him under orders to avoid Osama making any embarrassing revelations, openly or in secret.

      2. Cowering in a corner isn’t that unlikely, he was a sick old fuck who was probably caught off guard.

        1. He was a trust-fund kid who decided to leave his life of luxury to fight the friggin’ Red Army, and then offered to fight Saddam Hussein in Kuwait. Not someone I’d call a pussy

    2. We’re on it, we’re retrieving the bullets from the cadaver.

    3. I don’t think we would just point-blank execute him. He’d be an information goldmine

      No kidding. I find it hard to believe the CIA spooks weren’t itching to waterboard him like crazy.

  27. So now there’s a new narrative? Quelle suprise! The half-dead dialysis patient/terrorist might not have used his wife as a human shield and might not have been firing at the SEAL team. And even if he wasn’t armed, he still resisted arrest capture which means shooting him in the face is perfectly justified.

    Let’s assume, for the moment, that no bad faith was involved…

    WHERE’S THE DAMN BODY?

    1. why do you need to see the body? 😉

      1. Because if I guess right, I win my play-by-email game of Clue.

        Rather killed Mr. Bin Laden in the Compound with the Poopy.

        1. Coward who sucks Sugarfree dick-I wouldn’t use my real name either

          1. Rather, your dick just doesn’t do anything for me. Just because it’s shaped like a Dorito doesn’t mean you should go waving it around on your blog.

            1. Coward, anyone who sucks Sugarfree’s dick wouldn’t know a vagina even if he was climbing out of it.

      2. That blog post was probably the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

        1. Fuck you and your fucking god

          Asshole you are wrong and reason.com 3,146 hits prove it

          1. you been trolled by a quote from “Billy Madison”

            1. sorry, I have never seen any stupid Sandler movie-I’m not brain damaged or male

              1. Well, you’re only half right. You sure as hell aren’t male.

                1. Also, tricking poor unsuspecting souls into clicking on your link doesn’t mean you have anything insightful to say, nor does it mean your blog is popular. The raw number of clicks has nothing to say about how long they stuck around (before vomiting), how much of your material they read (before vomiting), or any other useful metric (such as how many people stick around without vomiting).

                  I’m fairly certain that if you measured the last metric, it would be right around zero.

                  1. Everyone loves my blog but many of their workplaces block it.

                    1. Yeah, but, come on, who DOESN’T like scantily clad women? That’s like fishing with dynamite.

          2. FUCK YOU SMALL DICK! PEOPLE VISIT MY BLOG! HERE’S A NUMBER I MADE UP TO PROVE IT! GRRR ITCHY VAGINA!

    2. Somewhere in the area of the Grand Banks.

      1. He’s in Coon Rapids!

    3. Who said he was shot in the face? The head also has a back and fleeing could be considered resisting capture.

      1. :above the left eye

        1. i guess i did hear that there were facial recognition tests performed

  28. Whole thing sounds like some swat team trying to get their stories straight after one of those “isolated incidents.”

  29. Actually, I never believed Bush’s lies about Iraq. But I believed the French, the UN, the Clinton Admin, John Kerry, M. Albright, Tony Blair, the Joooos and the Dead Kurds when they said Saddam had WMD. Who knew T. Blair was a GOP member? Did Bush I carry Najaf over Clinton in ’92? I can’t remember.

    Yellowcake. I mean, you know how partisan MSNBC is toward Conservatives. Will Olbermann ever stop loving Cheney? Here’s the headline: “Secret U.S. mission hauls uranium from Iraq
    Last major stockpile from Saddam’s nuclear efforts arrives in Canada”

    Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/

    Anyway, Shrike, be well.

    Oh, and Bin Laden was not a kidney patient. Sheesh. And no, Tommy from Life Cereal didn’t die from Pop Rocks inhalation.

    1. hey, black bush on dave chappelle even said “motherfucker got YELLOWCAKE”

      that was enough for me!

    2. Mikey.

  30. If Obama were an Evil Overlord, his minions would’ve killed bin Laden pretty much as it appears to have happened, but they also would’ve used a more prominent figure as the human shield. . .one who was unfortunately killed in the firefight: George W. Bush. Or maybe Dick Cheney. Either way, solidifying Obama’s Evil Overlord grip on the presidency.

  31. this is the same government that received an award for openness in government at a closed ceremony?
    colour me shocked.

  32. I think most True Libertarians are missing the point here.

    Was this a no-knock raid? Maybe it was another Osama bin Laden who got killed. All that aluminum nitrate in the bathtub! That’s not illegal in Pakistan, is it? And that doesn’t prove a thing. No, sir, not a thing!

    Any dogs accidentally shot? Huh? That’s what we should be concentrating on.

    And how many homosexuals carried out the raid? I mean, that number better be directly proportional to the population of West Hollywood.

    Fuck! It wasn’t even OBL’s compound. It was OBL’s Compassionate Caregivers– Osama Bin Lightin’– Pakistan’s first Medical Marijuana Collective.

    The US Military took down a Medical Marijuana collective and its Islamic owner!

    1. i lol’d

  33. Just another police-state hit, murdering an unarmed man. Of course, he most likely deserved to die, but where’s the honor or the courage or the necessity in shooting him dead? Giving even the worst criminals some form of trial before executing them is what separates a civilized society from a primitive one. What has happened to the USA, that people celebrate acts like this and condone the government carrying them out?

    1. I very much doubt that there was ever a time in American history (or the history of any country, anywhere, ever), where a mass murderer getting clipped wouldn’t be celebrated.

    2. A civilized society would’ve hung him in chains

  34. So, what are there options?

    Stick with the official story to avoid embarrassment. Or avoid announcing historical news until they had all the depositions and videos lined up. Or just never tell us anything besides ‘Osama is dead. The rest is Top Secret.’

    Eh. I’d rather have to sift through the fog of bullshit as long as the main thrust of it is true.

  35. I think OBL was real upset about the tornadoes that struck the U.S. because they had done more damage to this country than he ever did. Boy how those whirly-clouds really pissed off that man. The only thing he could do to be more powerful than nature was to kill him self.

    I’m waiting for the OBL porn video to be leaked. Rule 34

    1. I got one photo with me holding Bin Laden’s lopped-off head! Top that, BushPigs! OBAMA 2012.

  36. BushyPig ObamyPig.

  37. I loved Hyperion (the novel) and am sick of the shrike guy on here. Though he does cause a lot of pain amongst readers here so that is consistent I suppose.

  38. I tried it and it works – thanks a million!

  39. By failing to get basic who, what, and where information right the first time around, the administration has undermined its own credibility…

    Credibility? When was the last time the Obama team could be accused of having any?

    Somehow this whole story line sounds fishy, on the one hand. “We shot him, dumped his dead ass in the ocean, and that’s that.” No evidence offered.

    On the other hand, when was the last time the Obama team could be accused of having even worried about their credibility? They decided to bomb Libya because well, hey man they just decided to Just Do It. You know, like the t-shirt says.

    Which is why I have to believe the official story probably isn’t too far from what actually happened.

    1. Unless they really did drag him away to some dungeon so they could torture whatever info they could out of his carcass.

      This is the West. Telling people this is what you did just isn’t going to fly.

      OTOH, it’s unlikely OBL has been dead for years, or anything like that. If it was true then AQ would know and they would certainly expose the US for lies.

      So whether he’s dead or in a dungeon, they got him.

      Sadly, Balko was right. If you look at how this nation has changed over the past decade, I’d have to say the terrorists won. Whether the end result is exactly what they intended or not.

  40. What kind of person celebrates death? It’s amazing how people can HATE a man they have never even heard speak. We’ve only heard one side, I’m not convinced he was even behind the attacks we have really seen no evidence to prove it other than the gov telling us. We’ll never know what really happened. I just have a hard time believing a plane could take a skyscraper down demolition style.
    For those of you who said you want to see Bin Laden burn in hell … I ask how would God feel about your heart?

    1. Also, the NFL is exactly like slavery.

  41. What do you mean by “independent reports”? Would you call yourself independent? Who is providing independent reports on a covert operation? Who saw it first hand? Listen, Obama makes plenty of dumb moves. Plenty. This time, he got it right. The details of this story; armed/not armed; wife/not wife; etc., are not important. Bin Laden = dead. That’s all we need to know. I don’t care if he they woke him up, he surrendered, and then they shot him in the head multiple times. I still like the fact that he’s dead. The small details are not of consequence. Get over it. Obama finally got one right. It’s ok. He’ll screw up again, soon enough.

  42. Nobody lied to the Americna people and the press more than George W Bush, who was a DOUBLE FAIL as president. He allowed the worst attack on American soil to occur on his watch. Then he failed to catch the perpetrator. Bush will go down in history as a loser who failed at everything he ever tried. He let this country down by allowing it to be attacked by our enemies, then he destroyed the auto industry, the banking industry, the home mortgage industry, etc. etc. etc. which started a globel economic recession.

  43. This is very interesting. May or may not be true. You’ll have to decide for yourselves. Just keep your eyes open and balance the whole thing.

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