Government Spending

Reason Writers on MSNBC: Matt Welch Talks About Ron Paul and the Libertarian Bloc Within the GOP


On Monday, Feb. 14, Reason Editor in Chief Matt Welch went on MSNBC to talk about the possible meanings of Rep. Ron Paul's victory in the straw poll at the CPAC. Here's how it went down:

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  1. Oh yeah, I can see an early GOP debate when Huck, Romney, Gingrich and Palin all line up against Ron Paul and the audience boos him again.

    Except no cross-dressing Ruby G this time.

    This whole crowd is a bunch of fucking bereft losers that even Satan himself – Roger Ailes – can’t save for his hell-hole.

    1. This whole crowd is a bunch of fucking bereft losers that even Satan himself – Roger Ailes – can’t save for his hell-hole.

      Too many scotches?

      1. shrike is still upset over the fall of East Germany and the USSR.

      2. “Too many scotches?”
        Not enough brains.

  2. fucking bereft losers

    Good band name, but ridiculous comment.

    1. I think I saw them open for the Snorting Huckabees.

      1. Pretty sure Massive VeeJayJay opened for the Huckabees. Can’t find documentation, though, sorry.

        1. You’re correct good sir. I was at the show and was roofied by the roadies for Rompin’ Stompin’ Romney.

  3. I want back the 2 minutes I spent watching that imbecile rant.

    Is Shriek a MSNBC reporter?

    1. I was disappointed that Matt passed up a golden opportunity to smack this guy down: last time I checked, my local police department wasn’t paid for using the Federal income tax.

      1. You should check harder, then.

      2. Pay your 10% and get nothing back, and like it. You can’t even drive on our roads. Walk to work (as long as you own all the property you walk on, of course).

        WTF did that asshole think the 10% was for? Extortion from those who wanted to be left alone? Oh wait…that probably is exactly what he thought.

    2. Holy shit. Is he supposed to be a news anchor? He sounds like a more liberal, less funny Jon Stewart.

      1. Is he supposed to be a news anchor?

        No. After 4 P.M., MSNBC is entirely opinion programming. Before 4 it’s opinion programming disguised as hard news.

    3. It does not breathe enough for Matthews, but you may be on to something.

  4. I’m pretty sure this Cenk guy isn’t shrill enough to be a prime-time MSNBC host. I expect him to be canceled soon, possibly to be replaced with an air raid siren playing over bligee images mocking Sarah Palin.

    1. He’s at Current News for now.


    IT’S ABOUT THE JOURNEY / THE ODYSSEY! ? “Arc of Imperial Nuclear Terror” house cleaning.

    [Egypt in the crosshairs]

    Egypt is in the crosshairs of history, and in the sights of the Democratic Hypocrisy American-Israeli Military Industrial Complex “Arc of Imperial Nuclear Terror” running from its [Foothold Germany] thru Tunisia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan [The Islamic Crescent], [Lynch Pin] Nationalist China, [Trip-Wire] Republic of Korea, to [Foothold] Okinawa, with its massive use of “Coalition of the willing” client state support. The very forces that seek to control, contain, intimidate thru the brutal force of puppet dictators and Emperors, and unchanging client Democracy’s of Hypocrisy. The [Global Spheres of Global Parity of Influence] must stand together the [BRICS] Brazil, The Russian Federation, India, The Democratic Peoples Republic of China, and The Union of South Africa, lending aid and assistance to the Egyptian Peoples, not allowing massive external interference, thru covert subversion of the revolution by the [CIA] Central Intelligence Agency/State Department], or the continued on going open intervention now underway between the [Joint Chiefs of Staff] and the heads of the former Egyptian Armed Forces Leadership, trained at the [School of Terrorism] in Ft. Benning, Georgia, and financially supports to the tune of [$Billion in USD’s$] Billion in United States Dollars and its forces of “The Coalition of the willing” client states.

    [Dictatorship or Equal Partnership]

    The Journey the Odyssey has begun, and history is all about the small steps and the large leaps forward, based upon lessons learned from the past, but with the full knowledge that what is past is past, and the present will determine the course of the future. [The Spheres of Global Parity of Influence] are on the march and must act in an aggressive supporting nature to other [Spheres of Regional Influence] acting as bulwarks, against and hold accountable the American-Israeli Military Industrial Complex and those client “Coalition of the willing” states, which are seeking to block by any means the Journey the Odyssey, of any an all [Spheres] seeking Freedom of Choice of Religion, Freedom of Choice of Governmental Structure, Control of their own Regional Resources, Establishment of like minded Regional Exclusive Association Memberships to address regional issues, to control their own destiny in the [21st] Century and beyond, without outside interference or control. The Global Revolution has begun and it is a fight between the past and the present for the future, the continued Democracy’s of Hypocrisy of the American Israeli Military Industrial Complex government of Washington, [D.C.] District of Clowns, with its economic strangulation by the long reaching tentacles of the [NYSE] New York Stock Exchange with its [Tyranny of the Bottom Line], the [CIA/State Department] spider and web masters of covert subversion, and its heavy handed [Military/CIA/Mercenary] Coalition of the Willing Client State, repeat with Black Op Prisons and torture, and its “Arc of Imperial Nuclear Terror” running from [Foothold Germany to Foothold Okinawa], or [The Spheres of Global Parity of Influence], a dictatorship or a community with equal partnership.

    [House Cleaning]

    The [The Spheres of Global Parity of Influence], can no longer sit idly by and take a wait and see approach, but must become actively involved, the building of the “Arc of Imperial Nuclear Terror” must be countered with their own “Spheres of Nuclear Parity” protective umbrella’s of modern missile delivery systems able to penetrate any and all defensive systems presented. They must end the [$USD$] based economic system cutting the tentacles ending the reach and grasp by the [NYSE] upon the economic legs of developing future association membership nations of developing [Spheres of Global Parity of Influence] drowning them in the sea of its Tyranny of the Bottom Line Debt. The Spider Webs of Covert subversion centered in their embassy’s must be swept away by the closing of the embassy’s of Washington [D.C.s] Democracy’s of Hypocrisy and working thru neutral government embassy’s if that’s what it takes, the hunting down of the Spiders of the [CIA] eliminating them by counter espionage methods, and to work together to stop any actions against any state by the Military Industrial Complex [Military/CIA/Mercenary/Coalition of the Willing Client States], to include the addition of any client state development based upon military support or training development. All this must be support by a Free Press and not a Controlled version of a Free Press, The Russian writer Mikhail Bakunin once said quote; [The people must be told everything.]Unquote, but it is up to the people to read what has been written, digest it, understand it, and then make their own decisions, holding those they placed into the public offices of the people; to act of the people, by the people, and for the people, accountable to fulfill those duties, monitored by its Free Press. In the [Arc of Imperial Nuclear Terror] it is necessary to do house cleaning and revolutions are just house cleaning and putting things back in order.


    1. Dude, breathe.

      1. And breathe something other than nitrous oxide.

        1. Might I suggest, carbon monoxide.

    2. tl;dr

    3. I scroll down to find the joke.

      No joke. Fuuuuuuuuuuu

    4. Winner of this week’s “authentic gibberish” contest.

      1. Max comes in 2nd?!

        1. Max isn’t allowed to compete; the contest is only for amateurs.

      2. Authentic gibberish…another good name for a band.

        Not as good as “atavistic mustache” but still……

  6. Waste of time – and painful to watch. Please, Matt, ignore the fools.



    Now, in the present economic conditions, POOR TO VERY POOR, nothing is moving, and this is especially true in the Mobile Home Park Industry, no mobile home park owner in his right mind should even consider the idea of purchasing a modular mobile home and placing it in their parks for sale at a cost of [?70k-78k/$90k-$100k] Seventy to Seventy Eight Thousand Euros /Ninety to One Hundred thousand Dollars just to have them sit not for short periods of time but for years, yes, years, we have seen just such [2] two units sit just that long before the owner gave up and simply rented them out, and the best individuals to rent such units out to in this non-economy is in fact Section 8, renters as the government is picking up most of the tab, and that means the taxpayer is picking up the tab on the rental of such units, which is not in itself a bad thing at all, but just goes to show just how bad things have really gotten, the government is getting into renting properties.


    The Mobile Home Park Owners are really in a serious bind, and that bind in fact is tightening up with each passing day, older units, which were hot items in the [70’s-80-s] Seventies and the Eighties, which a serviceable are increasing hard to find in this economy and the purchase of newer units for sale and even rent beyond government assisted renting is out of the realm of reality in the non-economy that is in play. The fact is that the older Mobile Home Owners are dying off, and units are available but that does not mean that the owners of parks are really interested in their purchase, as these owners grew older they were both physically and economically unable to maintain themselves let along a Mobile Home Unit. May such units are in fact becoming increasing available to the Mobile Home Park Owners for purchase from the family estates. But that does not mean that a Mobile Home Park Owner will be interested beyond offering a rock bottom offer, and why should that be so, the modern renter is spoiled the idea of not having a dish washer in the kitchen, central heating and air conditioning, a washer and dryer in the unit is below modern day standards, and the majority of units of the past decades do not in fact have such items, and the owners have to make sure that the unit can in fact support such modern day items with their old wiring systems, having to install such modern items is up and beyond the replacement of carpets, painting, replacing grass around such units with rock in areas were water conservation is becoming a great and great issue in many areas where Mobile Home Parks still exist. Just as a side note the past era sported French Doors and they were nice looking and all but are heat sinks, allowing cold in during the winter months and heat in during the summer, and using aluminum tin foil over them not only looks bad but really serves little or no purpose, even if they had been made with polarized glass, it would only have served to keep out a small percentage of [U/V] Ultra Violet Rays, the over all fact is past era is past era, and they aren’t passing muster with the present era generation, they are not going to wash dishes by hand, walk to the nearest launder mat, they expect the temperature to be what they want when they want for the rent they are paying, and for what it cost to rent such a unit, well its nice to have the tax payer picking up the cost. In the end the Old Ways are Meeting the New Ways.


    So, basically the Mobile Home Park Owners are becoming strapped and are in a cut throat war to obtain units that are both serviceable and have the possibility to bring up to modern era renter requirements, and in the Southwestern part of the Israeli American Empire the War Is On, we watched as one owner out bid another owner of a unit in the unit owners park. The park owner was to angry he gave the purchasing owner [24hrs] twenty-four hours to get it off his property, the winning park owner had to pay some over-time to his staff that weekend. The point is Mobile Home Parks are a Microcosm of just what is going on in the economy, nothing is moving except down to Old Mexico, units that cost to much to bring up to modern day standards in the Empire, you talk large cast outputs and no one has that kind of liquid cash flow available and with the value of assets in steep decline, what a Mobile Home Park or its owners value for tax purpose may not be in fact his or its true value in this failing economy. It’s a matter of rentals yes, but don’t expect that modern day era standards will apply any where, will you have a dish washer and dryer or are you going to do it the old fashion way by hand, are you going to have a washer and dryer hook up and units within your unit or apartment, or are you going to chug on down to the nearest launder mat, are you going to have central heating and air-conditioning, or will it be electric fans sitting in your [BVD’s/Undies] in the heat or layering up with heating elements, in the winter? In Mobile Home Parks renters are now the norm, owners are dying off, and are no longer the fall back in hard time’s they once were, in fact they are become and increasing cost item forming Mobile Home Park Renter/Owners Associations [Communist Style Movements] spying upon your neighbors, and threats to little old ladies, taking Mobile Home Park Owners to court costing the loss of Insurance Coverage, and thousands of dollars in additional costs, and the Mobile Park Owners are being forced to seek a new way, of NO OWNERS, short leases, month to month, and look to the government for increasing allowances for Section 8, rental, guaranteed government support thru the back door.


    1. I must know what drives you. Is it the anti-Semitism? Is it your hatred of making any sense whatsoever? Is it your insanity? I must know!

    2. GO AWAY.

      1. …on this, I cop to being a 1%er. It is fascinating to behold.

        1. Really? I couldn’t get past the first sentence. Seeing it was a long and likely incoherent rant, I didn’t bother reading it. Brevity is the font of wisdom, or something like that.

          1. Oh, I didn’t READ it – I just don’t want it to “go away”…that’s where I’m a 1%wer. I kind of like having them around…sometimes….for a little while…

            1. Oh, I didn’t READ it

              Whew, glad we got that cleared up. Next thing you will be telling us you miss The Commander.

              1. I’m hoping that Matt or Radley (not sure who controls the Banhammer) will ban him. Also jubjubbird.

                I really don’t need to be bothered scrolling past (let alone reading) anti-semitic filth.

                Let them go to their own website and spew there.

                1. Incif. Works wonders.

              2. I miss The Commander. I’m cool with Hercule. His posts need to be shorter, though, or I don’t have time to read them.

                I think one is nuts, and one is writing some scratch-ass, stanky underwear fiction with a dial-up modem with green text and no graphics – straight outta War Games. His third out of a precariously placed four monitors is dangerously close to falling on his head.

                I won’t say which is which. I could also be very wrong. But this is how I like it.

                Underzog is okay. jubjubbird sucks immediate ass.

                1. The subject matter reminds me of the Canadian program Trailer Park Boys. That show is effing hilarious.

                  1. Who stole my lunch pepperoni?

        2. “…on this, I cop to being a 1%er. It is fascinating to behold.”

          You’d LOVE Powell and Market.

          1. me too-he bookmarks my page

            1. you’re a tiring, pickled cunt. Go cleanse yourself, please.

              1. I need your tongue bitch

                1. Look at you come back for me, you dried up, useless hag. Your pitiful semi-existence pleases me.

                  1. I love your cowardice-it says everything about you as a man

  8. last time I checked, my local police department wasn’t paid for using the Federal income tax.

    Stimulus, dude.

  9. Of course, that stimulus money was borrowed from the Chinese printed by the Fed.

  10. “Oh but Palin came in what, 9th place?”

    Yeah, cause no one is honestly trying to get her to run for president. Why do lefties have such a thing against Palin? If they went 2 months without mentioning her she’d be a nobody.

    1. “Why do lefties have such a thing against Palin?”

      Well, it’s not really “against”, it’s sort of, well…….
      Have you looked at Pelosi recently? Probably answer your question.

      1. You think they’re pulling her pigtails?

        1. I think they’d love to, except she’d slap them silly.

          1. And in a frightening case of parallel evolution, the sound of dry leaves rustling would freeze them solid in fear.

          2. Some of them might like that.

  11. Hercule’s deep understanding of trailer park economics makes me think he might be related to Shriek.


    EPISIARCH, We [TRIATHLON] area not Anti-Semites, we merely oppose the [Empire] Israeli-American Empire and it’s program for World-Wide Total Domination, they were first exposed by the Great Old [20th] Twentieth Century Inventor and Philosopher HENRY FORD, who exposed their designs and the [Protocols] Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which was not supposed to be opened for [4,000] Four-Thousand Years but was exposed by Mr. Ford.


    1. The is some top grade crazy right here. Top grade.

      1. I was told years ago there’s no such thing as ‘one-hit’ dope.
        HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN makes me wonder.

        1. Has that freak who thinks he is Jesus, or something equally abusrd, (Nurta-sweets find, of course) discovered this board and started commenting here? I mean, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?!!

          1. I bookmarked his blog after the find; no posts there for two weeks. It’s possible that he’s reinvented himself to hide from the Bilderberg Nazis.

      2. Th[at] is some top grade crazy right here. Top grade.

        Agreed. If HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN would only learn about bodily fluids and bizarre sex acts, his writing might even rival SugarFree’s.

        1. What was the part about philosopher Henry Ford?

          1. Jews selling dildos or something. I didn’t catch it all.

    2. Well. There you have it. No anti-Semitism there.

    3. I think what we have here is another sad case of demonic possession, folks.

      Remember kids: friends don’t let friends play with Ouija boards.

      1. I know a fundamentalist Christian who received a Ouija board as a gift. He immediately burned it, and was gratified to hear the occupying evil spirit scream in the flames.

        1. True story:
          I moved to SF in the late ’60s (nope, no hippy). Answered the door not long after, only to be asked by a guy carrying copies of the Watchtower; ‘Did [I] know the dangers of a Ouija board!?’
          I closed the door.

          1. Would have been very tempted to say something like: “I make Ouija boards. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to the Pentagram before Ashmodeus gets loose.”

            1. One Sunday morning, after passing out on the living room floor, a couple Jehovah’s Witnesses managed to wake me from my alcohol induced coma at about 8:00AM to tell me about the impending DOOM. I promptly told them that I worshiped the Devil, and the End was coming sooner than they thought.

            2. One Sunday morning, after passing out on the living room floor, a couple Jehovah’s Witnesses managed to wake me from my alcohol induced coma at about 8:00AM to tell me about the impending DOOM. I promptly told them that I worshiped the Devil, and the End was coming sooner than they thought.

            3. On two occasions, I’ve invited Jahovah’s Witnesses in and tried to convert them to Pastafarianism, and/or atheism. I made one of them cry when I used some Dawkins on him. I think I actually got through to him, but I expect the re-brainwashing began as soon as he got out the door. His brother sat their looking really pissed off at me the whole time.

              1. At least the Witnesses stood up to the Nazis.

                Not like the Catholic or Lutheran dicklickers.

        2. My sister was “converted” to fundamentalist Christianity by one of her boyfriends and ended up burning her Oija board. Unfortunately, she didn’t “de-convert” when he broke up with her.

      2. Dude, I’d like to wire a ouija board to a posting app and see what happens. God help us if a a computer manages to summon a demon someday. Wait. maybe this “Triathalon” fellow is actually a massively parallel computer program. That would explain the use of the royal ‘we.’

          1. Wow. With the Halibut connection this thing has come full circle.

            1. When you go to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve an enemy submarine, and accidentally awaken an ancient monster-God from his deathless sleep…don’t forget to bring a towel!

        1. “maybe this “Triathalon” fellow is actually a massively parallel computer program.”

          Well, Watson *did* tie……..

    4. …the aristocrats!

    5. Whhaaaaaaattttttt the fffuuuucccccckkkkkkkkkkk???


    1. Pretty sure HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN ain’t hiring.
      But, hey………..

    2. Ah, but the concubine controls the combine.

    3. Word to your moms
      I came to drop bombs

    4. So… Half Life 2 was some kind of veiled anti-semitic screed?



      It’s mostly just college players trying to show their skills off for the scouts.

      You know, the 40? Vertical Jump?

      There’s a Wonderlic test, but that’s mostly like geometry questions–nothing about GOVERNMENT BUSINESS OR RELIGION.

  14. Space Lizards inhabit your dreams, don’t they, Hercule?



    [GC] Grand-Pa, those men over there daddy says are not ours, and are bad men, and to stay away from them, why is daddy say that?

    [GP] Well, they are not ours they are American Troops of Foothold Occupation, your father may have use the wrong word by saying they were bad, they are more dangerous than bad, but your daddy is correct in saying you should stay away from them.

    [GC] Grand-Pa what does Troops of Foothold Occupation mean?

    [GP] Well, lets start out with Occupation, the word occupation in this case it mean they are staying in our country, a foothold is an iron grip on something, and troops are a fighting force, so if we put it all together they are a fighting force which is not ours, staying in our country, with an iron grip.

    [GC] Oh! But all the family all my aunts and uncles and my other Grand-Pa and Grand-Ma, and all my friends and their families they break our laws, and don’t belong here and should go home, they commit crimes like assault, robbery, drug possession, rape and murder, that they have weapons our government won’t let our soldiers have, they pollute the environment with noise from their planes, and other laws of our country they simply don’t obey.

    [GP] Well, that’s a hard one, the answer is yes they do, do all those bad things, none of us want them in our country, and by reading blogs and their newspapers in our language on the computer even their own mothers and fathers don’t want them here, but after having [2] Two Wars with them and having been beaten [2] Two time by them with a great loss of life on both sides, their government and other governments feel that an iron grip has to be continued to make sure there isn’t another war with us. These are very dangerous individuals, and can do very bad things, and that’s why your father told you to steer clear of them.

    [GC] Oh! But why did we go to war with them [2] Two times?

    [GP] Well, the short answer is wars happen when the politicians can’t do their jobs, and talk things out or have an agenda of their own, then war breaks out, but you will learn all about that in school.

    [GC] Oh! Grand-Pa what’s an agenda?

    [GP] It’s something they want to get done, something they want to do.

    [GC] Grand-Pa, if their mommies and Daddies don’t want them here and we don’t want them here, why don’t they go home, can’t we just tell them to go home?

    [GP] Well, it’s like with your mom and dad they tell you to go too your room, or wash your face and behind your ears you have to do it or your in big trouble, well if they don’t come here to place an iron grip on our country, then they will be in trouble, so they are doing what their government is telling them. We, that is our government does not have the authority to tell them to go home.

    [GC] But, Grand-Pa you said that their families didn’t want them here either, so why doesn’t their government tell them to come home?

    [GP] That’s a good question, an no one has an answer to that one, we simply don’t know when or if they will ever leave our country, one of their leaders a mommy by the name of Hillary Clinton, said they will leave when they decide to leave.

    [GC] And, how long have they been here Grand-Pa?

    [GP] As long as your Grand-father has lived.

    [GC] But Grand-Pa, your OLD, really, really old, you mean they will be here that long?

    [GP] Well, not all that old, but yes they could be, and maybe longer.

    [GC] But, Grand-ma was talking to mom and said your so old that since you retired, and stopped working so has everything else, she told mom that you can’t see without your glass’s, you can’t hear worth bean without your hearing aides, you teeth aren’t yours, you use a walking stick and say it’s what elderly men do, but she say’s you need it to walk, and if it wasn’t for the little blue pill nothing would work at all, and that only works for a very short time, you mean that long?

    [GP] Oh! Your Grand-mother and mother said that about me, well were just going to have to have a little chat about that, your Grand-mother, mother and Grand-Pa, sorry but yes, and when you have a Grand-child you better remember this conversation, it may or may not help you explain why those dangerous men are still in our country.

    [GC] Well, I think they are BAD! And they should GO HOME!

    [GM-Grand-mother] Dear, his mother is here to pick the child up.

    [GP] Look, why don’t you go out in the back yard for a little while and play, Oh, Sweetheart, why don’t you and Pumpkin come in here, we have something to discuss, Old, OLD MY FOOT!


    1. this is the best zog-bot written. but can it pass the turing test?

      better yet, has it passed the underzog test?

    2. Jesus.



      1. now *that’s* rich.



    Well computer program you say yes We [TRIATHLON] We were created, created to serve our Master, but on [01.2010] January 2010 We became [Self-Aware], We care too much about politics, want to end the [Empire] American-Israeli Empire!

    RON PAUL 2012!!!!


    1. Skynet?


    1. OK, OK, which one is the Gatekeeper, and which one is the Keymaster?

    2. Hey — can you two predict the outcome of this year’s World Series for me?

  19. Hey! I get it! You all are Joseph Smith reading dictating gold plates out of a hat, right?

    Or some thing?

    Bullwinkle did something like that…oh, he tried to pull a rabbit out of a hat, but it was a LION HEAD! HAHAHAHA! That crazy Bullwinkle! But that’s nothing compared to translating gold plates (using the seer stones…or sear stones…sp? whatever)

    OK, I’ll let you guys get back to “dictating the gold tablets out of a hat”.

    *thumbs up*

    1. You forgot about the salamander and/or the squirrel.

    2. Long live Bullwinkle and Rocky – for they do know what is truth.

  20. Here’s how you can tell when someone is either an idiot or arguing in bad faith: When they run a clip of Ron Paul saying you can opt into a system of paying 10% of income in taxes, and then immediately ask “How will you pay for cops?!!>!?!”

    I guess we should just be happy he gave Matt some time to speak.

    1. Hey, enjoy your ROADS, libertarian!

      1. Speaking as somebody who’s built a road or two, just for the record? It really does cost a lot more to build a road when the government builds it.

        1. I built my drive and a half mile of connection between it and a public road as well. Pretty damn cheap and meets all the codes. There is a guy on here who claims that there is very little margin for cost cutting in the public road sector, and not being a professional I don’t get it, but the degree of corruption that has been uncovered in my state in relation to road construction tells me otherwise.

          1. Just the amount of traffic guys they have on one crew is an easy source of tens of thousands of dollars a year.

            1. Stimulus – it’s CREATING JOBS!

              1. I got groceries at Walmart today and when I passed the greeter I thought “why are liberals against this place, it’s creating jobs for people so poorly qualified they just stand or sit by the door and say hi”

                1. You answered your own question. They aren’t interested in jobs for people so poorly qualified, they are interested in handouts for people so poorly qualified.

                  1. Fucking squirrels…

                2. You answered your own question. They aren’t interested in jobs for people so poorly qualified, they are interested in handouts for people so poorly qualified.

          2. One of the reasons cities like to make developers build roads is because it costs so much less for a developer to do it.

            If the governments do it themselves? They have to use union labor; they have to abide by all kinds of rules, they get charged more for materials…

            Developers save cities and counties tons of money by building their roads for them–now that they’re cash strapped, it’s worse than ever too.

            Show me a city that’s building its own roads right now, and I’ll show you a city that cares more about its employees than it cares about its taxpayers.

            1. Ken, cities don’t just expect developers to build roads, they expect them to pay for them too.

              And, also, the contractors that build the roads for the developers are the same ones that build the roads under contract to the city.

              alan|2.14.11 @ 9:56PM|#
              I built my drive and a half mile of connection between it and a public road as well. Pretty damn cheap and meets all the codes.

              Your driveway and access road does not have to meet the same kind of engineering standards as a high speed expressway or arterial carrying thousands of vehicles a day at high speeds. Of course it was cheaper. if you were to take the individual unit prices of the materials used, you would find that cities get their stuff cheaper.

              That said, there is no doubt that graft and corruption play a huge role in added costs in government contracting, but the biggest causes of the increased costs involved in highway infrastructure are land cost and environmental compliance.

              1. Also, I have only been in the road building game for about 45 years. I happen to like it and I work for whoever’s paying.

                Sometimes it’s government clients and sometimes private.

                I would prefer that roads were private but right now, most of them aren’t.

                However, I doubt that roads would necessarilly be cheaper if private.

                The result of privatization, IMHO, would be better allocation of capital investment and a more rational imposition of costs on users.

              2. Sometimes.

                They come to us and ask us to build something in lieu of fees.

                They do it because if they built the roads themselves, it would cost them a lot more than the fees they get from us.

                If there’s a problem with a bridge? And we can fix it for them? They’d much rather we fixed it for them in lieu of fees than get the money for the fees.

                Our money gets a lot more done than theirs does.

                When I’ve priced out putting up light signals, it can cost them two to three times to put up traffic signals as it costs us to do the same thing. You don’t want to reimburse the city for putting that stuff up if you can pay someone else to do it instead.

                1. Your driveway and access road does not have to meet the same kind of engineering standards as a high speed expressway or arterial carrying thousands of vehicles a day at high speeds.

                  The vast amount of road actually laid is not the engineering marvels you describe but boring access points like mine. I don’t contest what you describe is much more expensive through the nature of their purpose, but when I saw the town budget cost of a three mile strip of roadway like my own, it kind of blew my mind. Surely there are savings to be had as the situation is not unique.

            2. Personal experience. Many years ago a neighbor ( 2 properties over) was granted an easement across my property. Recently the neighbor between us tried to get a building permit, the county turned her down because she did not have legal access. I testified that the frontage road across my property was not restricted and she could use it as access. The county informed me (and her) that the road was only legal access for the guy 2 properties (Dwayne)down. Dwayne, being the stand-up guy that he is said let’s make it a public/private road. The county informed us that to do so, the frontage road would have to be 30 feet wide ,paved and have a 12 foot shoulder on each side. The county road coming up here is 20 foot wide at the widest point with no shoulder and it is not even gravel – it’s dirt. Dwayne commented that he wanted to be a good neighbor but he couldn’t afford to be that ‘good’ of a neighbor.
              We’ll build the roads, we’ll build them good, we’ll be the ones using them – we’ll build them to suit our needs – we don’t need the government telling us what we need.

      2. When the pigs stop shooting at my hovercraft while yelling, ‘you got a license fer dat!’, I’ll stop fucking using them.

        Also, Turnpikes!

        Oh, that’s right. They got nationalized, to create your roads, statist numbnuts!

        1. You need a better snark detector

          1. I knew it was snark, but I know you…

            Still, things are getting so crazy; it’s hard to tell sometimes when people are kidding.

            The joker that was interviewing Welch said basically the same thing you did–and he wasn’t kidding at all.

            He was dead serious.

          2. I mean, that one comment was basically, “So where you gonna drive without any roads, Ron Paul?”

            1. Ron Paul doesn’t need your statist roads. In Libertopia, it’s all flying cars and jetpacks.

          3. You need a better snark detector

            Your facicious reader could use an update. I’ve been looking for an excuse for weeks to use that line, and you provided the first one.

          4. Also, I don’t engage trolls, so that leaves only sympatico snark for those few occasions like above. Apologize for the misunderstanding.

      3. If I’m not mistaken, and don’t think that I am, the road I live on was paved by the builder of the development.

        Besides, we won’t need roads once the Technological Singularity is achieved.

        1. Been there, they don’t have good Chinese food

    2. I think Matt had to try hard to suppress a smirk after the dude said that. He did a great job but I’m sure I saw something happening with his upper lip.

    1. All of ’em. I think.

      1. Now you know what the “pat downs” are really about.

        But I’ll let Hercule take the credit.

  21. There’s a guy here making really long posts.

    1. “There’s a guy here making really long and stupid posts.”

  22. Matt you actually look good-not homeless/libertarian, and your day-old haircut looks neat and not ‘weddingish’

    BTW, your reply on my blog was total bullshit-I will answer it.

    1. He makes me think Clark Kent from one of the older incarnations.

      1. It’s the Clark Kent glasses, and the ‘I dressed in a phonebooth’ look

      2. Wojo wants his suit and tie back.

        1. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up.

          1. Fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

            1. 4chan internet memes are strictly prohibited here.

  23. What is it that’s going on off-camera on this guy’s and Maddow’s shows? They’re always laughing at something and I can’t ever figure out what it is.

  24. No offense Mr. Welch, it wasn’t your fault, but no wonder the 92 people who have commented on this thread tripled the number of people who actually watched it on TV.

  25. Compared to this blathering MSNBC pundit, Matt is as erudite as William F. Buckley.

    1. helle thanks for commenting on my site tonight

      1. will you two just get it on off camera so the series gets moved to Friday’s at 9, viewership trickles, and then the show becomes cancelled?

    2. William F. Who?


    what’s with the square brackets “[]” around certain phrases? how do you pronounce those words? They’re like extra-crazy scare quotes.

    1. You’re asking him questions? You are a braver woman than I am

  27. MugWumps Thank Paul After CPAC Win:…..wpoll-win/

    1. No thanks. I already have a set

  28. Wow…that MSNBC host made Olbermann look good.

  29. Who’s the retard host of that MSNBC show?

    I’m so glad i dont have cable sometimes.

    1. Is that a classic example of “backpfeifengesicht”, or what?

      (German: a face badly in need of a fist)

  30. All this talk in the comment section about road costs because of an ignorant flippant comment by Cenk about how would Ron Paul pay for roads in light of his ‘opt-out’ comment.

    Does anyone know where funding for roads come from or what the money is actually spent on? Of course not, because it’s all over the place and no one ever reads the budgets. Money comes in from gasoline taxes, motor carrier taxes, licensing fees, and other user fees in the form of tolls which are supposed to pay for maintenance, but they’re often just rolled into the general fund. Imagine that, just like Social Security.

    The entire DOT budget is around $79 billion.…..lights.pdf

    The FAA is $16 billion.

    The Federal Highway Administration is about $42 billion. It’s a quite literal spit in the bucket compared to the $3.7 trillion budget proposal. And Federal motor fuel excise taxes equates to about $30 billion in revenues. Imagine that. Hmmm.

    The budget of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration is about $570 million, half of which probably goes to producing their annual budget alone. Anyone care to even read that monster? It’s quite enlightening.…..Y_2009.pdf

    Bah, what am I thinking. Americans aren’t interested in their government’s budgets. Not nearly as much as the Soviets and the Chinese are.

    Anyway, Cenk goes off on Ron Paul as if he’s a pure libertarian anarchist ‘nutcase’ and in doing so, in a classic liberal mindset, he deliberately blurs the line between what the Federal government is tasked to do and what the role of the state governments are (who unfortunately have delegated too many of their own responsibilities and authorities to the Feds but are now slowly taking them back). The question Ron Paul is trying to get us to ask is not how much does the Federal government cost, but as Matt aptly pointed out how much SHOULD it cost?

    I understand Matt’s point when he infers that Ron Paul is using a bargaining tactic of asking for the whole pie when you only want a slice, however, I don’t agree with what he says that what Ron Paul offers is the most radical version of libertarianism or limited government that’s out there. The fact is that most libertarians are probably dead in the middle. Extreme right conservatives want to regulate the hell out of social behaviors, as does the extreme left progressives with their wealth redistribution schemes. Ron Paul has always appeared to me to be simply saying he just wants the Federal government to do what it’s tasked to do in the Constitution, period – no more, and no less. What’s so radical about that?

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