She May ? Hayek, But He Dug His Cousin More

Fun video that thankfully ignores the fact that Hayek married his cousin (or had horribly upbeat things to say about liberty in Pinochet's Chile).

Go here for an excellent video interview with Hayek conducted by the great UCLA economist Armen Alchian.

Hat tip: Virginia Postrel, whose Deep Glamour blog continues to get even more interesting and whose Wall Street Journal cols are always worth reading.

Comments

[Old Mexican]

Fun video that thankfully ignores the fact that Hayek married his cousin[...]

So did Darwin, asshole.

(or had horribly upbeat things to say about liberty in Pinochet's Chile)[...]

... which ended up being fulfilled: Chile has now the most liberal economy in all of America, compared even to the heavily regulated US of A. Imagine that.

[Almanian]

What OM said, on both counts.

[CatoTheElder]

and squared

[Anonymous]

cubed, even

[Pierre]

hypercubed

[Me]

Megahypercubed

[capitol l]

So, brutal dictatorships are okay if one day they may have a more liberal economic system than the U.S.?

Right.

[Old Mexican]

Re: capitol l,

So, brutal dictatorships are okay if one day they may have a more liberal economic system than the U.S.?

When it comes to brutal dictatorships, would you prefer one that does NOT lead to a more liberal economic system, a la Cuba?

Nobody said that a brutal dictatorship is OK, because it's not. Certainly, given the choice between Allende and Pinochet, I would clad my eyes with shades and cross my arms, rather than stupidly say "Viva Allende Por Siempre!"

[capitol l]

You're right.

I would not feel fear or anger while being tortured by nazi pedophiles, instead I would be thankful that Dow Chemical had their holdings returned.

[Old Mexican]

Re: capitol l,

I would not feel fear or anger while being tortured by nazi pedophiles, instead I would be thankful that Dow Chemical had their holdings returned.

As long as you're upbeat about it.

[capitol l]

I thought were having a good ol' fashioned "More hysterical than thee" umnragefest, and you have to go and ruin it!

[capitol l]

umbragefest

[Old Mexican]

Re: Capitol l

"Because that is what I do."

😉

[joshua corning]

So, brutal dictatorships are okay if one day they may have a more liberal economic system than the U.S.?

What an idiotic argument.

As if anyone here supports what Pinochet did.

It is like saying if you like what Jefferson did with drafting the first amendment then you support slavery.

"What you like free speech?!?!? You slaver!!!"

[Greg Ransom]

Not a first cousin. Not a second cousin.

A distant cousin.

[Greg Ransom]

Nick's own family tree is stuffed ith mating first and second cousins.

It's just a fact of human anthropology -- even within recorded history.

Strange tht Nick has a taboo about standard human mating behavior from time immemorial.

[spencer]

It's really strange to see a libertarian post that seems to look down upon the freedom to marry your cousin.

[Name Nomad]

I'm guessing people who look down on it don't have hot cousins.

[Shelbyville Manhattan]

You sir, are exactly right.

[zoltan]

It doesn't look down on the freedom of it; it looks down on the choice to do so.

[Dello]

Agreed. I wouldn't stop anyone from consuming a dog shit milkshake, but I WILL laugh while they do it.

[Barry D]

There have been times when I've actually encouraged such things, so that I could laugh...

[Monogamy]

I thought Nick was only implying that Hayek is therefore not dating...

[JD]

Being dead may have something to do with that too.

[George Michael Bluth]

I know, right?!

[Contemplationist]

Heh. If we have a Castro-like maniac in power bringing about the socialist revolution, I will cheer on every Pinochet to root the bastard out. It was civil war. The marxists lost so they have been whining ever since, meanwhile apologizing for every marxist tyrant that ever lived. Fuck them sideways.

[CatoTheElder]

Yeah, it's amazing that left-wing asshats whine incessantly about Pinochet's abuse of human rights while blithely ignoring the track record of Allende's side of the ideological struggle.

According to the Rettig Report, Pinochet's side conclusively killed 2279 for political reasons and maybe an additional 641 and perhaps even 449 more. Allende's side killed approximately 150 million according to the Black Book of Communism.

[Some Guy]

Ah, well that makes Pinochet's abuses ok then.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Some Guy,

Ah, well that makes Pinochet's abuses ok then.

No, not at all - the guy was a thug and he did his share of killing. The problem is that he was "not OUR thug" in the eyes of the Statist fuck, so he gets the bad publicity, instead of the cool photos and t-shirts.

[TallDave]

A fun experiment to try across college campuses: pay 20 volunteer students to walk around all day, half in Che t-shirts and half in Pinochet t-shirts, and record the responses.

Now all I need is a grant...

[Brett L]

The guy did step down voluntarily and stage elections in which he wasn't a candidate. So, while perhaps the worst successful route to an elected government with a liberal economy, its better than many other places on this earth.

[MJ]

If the choice is between Pinochet and a Castro wannabe, I'll take Pinochet. If the choice is between Pinochet and a Washington, I'll go with Washington.

You have to go with the available choices, there is a reasonable argument that Pinochet was the best choice at the time, though not the ideal.

[affenkopf]

According to the Rettig Report, Pinochet's side conclusively killed 2279 for political reasons and maybe an additional 641 and perhaps even 449 more. Allende's side killed approximately 150 million according to the Black Book of Communism.
reply to this

If you lay all communist dead at Allend's feet you also have to add all deads caused by Franco and other fascists to Pinochet's tally.

[TallDave]

Fascists don't believe in free market reforms, esp. not anti-protectionist measures. They're corporatists.

One of the ironies of the international political conversation is that Europe is much more corporatist than the U.S. -- EU states act to support "their" national companies, such that the top 20 companies in Europe haven't changed much in 50 years -- and hence much more fascist. That's probably also why unions are so much more important -- with the gov't in bed with monopolies, the whole thing is one big fucking coercive mess.

[Episiarch]

What city is she in?

[Dorian Electra]

Houston, Texas!

[Old Mexican]

YES!!!

I (heart) Houston!

[SugarFree]

Excellent. That is the minimum safe distance to be when dealing with Episiarch.

[Episiarch]

Which is why I am located on the moon. I am, of course, Emperor of the Moon.

[Old Mexican]

I thought you were the Empress of the Moon...

[SugarFree]

The difference matters little among the vacuum-dwelling Moon Hermaphrodites.

[Episiarch]

"I like the pole and the hole."

[Wind Rider]

Epi, get the fuck off my moon. I bought it fair and square from a guy is some bar about three years ago.

[Nick Gillespie]

Two things.

1. Yes, Hayek was right that Pinochet's dictatorship eventually gave rise to a liberal democracy. But he was wrong to insist that "that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende."

2. There's nothing wrong with marrying your cousin; I meant merely to gently suggest to the videographer that the ultimate way to Hayek's heart was via bloodline.

[spencer]

+1

[Uncle Gillespie]

Note to self: cancel family reunion

[Almanian]

+lulz!

[Racist]

Don't respond to Old Mexican, he'll always stand up for his beaner compatriots, even if they're lying murderous bastards.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Racist,

Don't respond to Old Mexican, he'll always stand up for his beaner compatriots, even if they're lying murderous bastards.

That's a lie - I don't stand up for Cheistas.

[Wind Rider]

Well, duh, Che wasn't a beaner! He was one of those leftard fucks from South America that confused people by invoking Bolivar's ghost till he got enough power and authority to just start shooting people he didn't like. Oh, and like you've ever called a Rican a beaner? I think not.

[Almanian]

Well, there's nothing wrong, till the mental retardedness, susceptibility to disease, etc etc starts manifesting itself.

Best to keep that gene pool something bigger than a puddle....although if your cousin's REALLY hot, well, what's one generation of dice rolling between relatives? 🙂

[spencer]

Actually, those side effects are blown way out of proportion. Typically, even with something as close as first cousin matings, is only 2% more likely to produce such abnormalities (http://www.infoniac.com/science/two-first-cousin-marriage.html).

[Old Mexican]

Re: Almanian,

Well, there's nothing wrong, till the mental retardedness, susceptibility to disease, etc etc starts manifesting itself.

It doesn't. There's only a 4-6% chance of birth or genetic defects appearing in the offspring of first cousins compared to 2-3% of non-related couples, but that's still quite low (meaning that there's a 94% chance an offspring of a cousin couple will be healthy.)

http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

[Old Mexican]

And NO, I did not marry my first cousin, even though many of them are quite hot - they all married outside family.

[Almanian]

Good news! I have TWO hot first cousins - first, to divorce Mrs. Almanian, then, to bed them both!

[SugarFree]

"Hey, remember that time at Grandma's house?"

Worst pillow talk ever.

[BrokeBroker]

And if I remember, those additionnal risks of birth defects are the same for a woman over 30 giving birth. So it's not that much.

[JW]

It when you have a genetic disorder, such as Tay-Sachs, where both parents need to be carriers in order for the disorder to be passed on, that the cousin-fucking problems really come up.

[Old Mexican]

But if the cousing is H-O-T, would't you take that chance???

[JW]

No hawt cousins in my family. Too much inbreeding.

[alan]

rubbers, patches, the pill, pulling out, the rhythm method, anal, oral, pulling out, abortion clinics . . . are we all going to have to visit eighth grade health class all over again. It sure does sound like it.

[cynical]

It's a good thing that we now can do genetic testing to find those things out, for cousin fuckers as well as everyone else who might meet someone with the same fucked recessive trait by accident.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Nick Gillespie,

But he was wrong to insist that "that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende."

Uh... right. Having your savings and purchasing power diminished by hyperinflation, your property rights destroyed by expropriations, that has nothing to do with personal freedom.

I agree that Hayek was too optimistic about Pinochet, but one would still be optimistic after going through Allende - the "good" doctor was NOT a good person, Nick, by any stretch of the imagination (except maybe in an Allendista's wet dream.)

I meant merely to gently suggest to the videographer that the ultimate way to Hayek's heart was via bloodline.

*Slaps his hand on forehead*

[Next They'll Be Saying...]

I hear that some people enjoy sheep.

NTTAWWT

[R C Dean]

But he was wrong to insist that "that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende."

As a counterfactual, it is of course impossible to verify (or falsify).

[cynical]

It isn't a counterfactual.

[joshua corning]

As a counterfactual, it is of course impossible to verify (or falsify).

The counterfactual is the freedom measurement.

That is why Old Mex is wrong. He should not have used it in his argument.

[Old Mexican]

Re: joshua corning,

Where am I being wrong? Hayek was not making a comparison between Chile and more liberal nations, he was comparing Pinochet's Chile with Allende's (the "iliberal democracy" to which he aluded.) Even if Hayek was being sanguine in his opinion of Pinochet's Chile regarding economic freedom (as Pinochet was a statist himself,) the point is that you cannot simply dismiss the great IMPORTANCE of personal economic freedom and only point out at so-called "political" freedom. Allende's policies went against people's savings, purchasing power and asset values, which limit their economic choices and, last I SAW, CHOICE is a manifestation of people's freedom to act.

Pinochet was a thug - granted, no question about it. He was a brutal dictator - granted, no question about it. What he was NOT was a person hell bent on destroying a whole country and her people's economic future, instead wisely STEPPING DOWN when the time came. Would the arrogant Allende do the same?

[Jill]

Amen OM.

[SugarFree]

Cousins can have all the in-bred, one-eyed, lisping, clubfooted, mute horror offspring they want. As long as I don't have to pay for them.

[Episiarch]

Yeah, you're busy paying for all your inbred, one-eyed, lisping, clubfooted, mute horror offspring of your own.

Speaking of which, I just watched the McPoyles take the gang hostage last night again. Damn, season 3 was good.

[SugarFree]

All my children are feral and can take care of themselves.

[Old Mexican]

Re: SugarFree,

All my children are feral and can take care of themselves.

Well, don't let them come near my yard, then. My wife just planted posies - I don't want your children digging there.

[Dello]

Really? And all this time I thought All My Children was a soap opera....

[SugarFree]

What's a soap opera?

[Episiarch]

Until Mel Gibson comes along with The Humongous, of course.

[hmm]

19 minutes too slow sir. 19 MINUTES!!!

http://reason.com/blog/2010/12.....nt_2054709

[Clich? Bandit]

dude, for scoops they should put you on the payroll. Then the kotchtopus can care for YOUR ferral kids...SF, until you quit teaching html you are unemployable.

[hmm]

Who cares. What was as social norm or at least not as OMG awful as it is now isn't really relevant to your theory being correct.

[Colin]

Won't be as popular as "Crush on Obama," but it was way better.

[Wind Rider]

No props to Welch for the loan of his glasses?

[Welch's Glasses]

Her's are way better looking then me.

[R C Dean]

It isn't a counterfactual.

You're right. My brain inserted a "would have been under Allende". Comment retracted.

[alan]

Well, they shouldn't make cousins so sexy then. Oh, you don't have any sexy cousins.

[TallDave]

Well, sure, Pinochet was a thug and a butcher, and but he did liberalize the economy, and how many autocrats turn power back over to democrats on a plebiscite? Hayek certainly overstated the case, but in the shitty class of 20th century dictators, Pinochet has to be near the top, brutalization of political opponents and all.

And yes, Allende (the other option) would have been far worse. At the rate he was dismantling the Chilean economy and consolidating power, by today Chile would be the South American North Korea.

[Greg Ransom]

Hayek's second wife was a DISTANT cousin, a relationship acceptable in every culture on the planet.

[Jill]

I might be late but, some of you slow.

[Anonymous]

Not true. In many parts of India it is illegal to marry up to fourth cousins.

http://www.remarriagesolutions.com/info_corner/laws-hma.html

In China it has historically been true that you could never marry a paternal cousin no matter how distantly related.