The Internet Ruins Kids' Brains: Episode 3,462
Today in The New York Times, yet another The Kids Are Being Ruined by the Internet! article. The star of the piece: Vishal Singh, a bright young high school senior who hasn't done his summer reading because the Internet distracted him for three months. The story contains a bunch of the usual facts, figures, and man-in-the-cafeteria quotes about how video games and online multitasking soften the brain and make students fidgety.
But the argument against the idea that social networking, video games, and YouTube are creating a generation of unproductive, unfocused citizens is embedded right in the article. Vishal may not have finished Cat's Cradle—a book students have been not finishing since well before the Internet was a glimmer in anyone's eye—but he isn't just sitting around or hopping twitchily between browser windows and text threads. These days, for instance, he's editing a music video, using a new computer and fancy video editing suite he seems to have paid for himself:
The video is based on a song performed by the band Guns N' Roses about a woman whose boyfriend dies. He wants it to be part of the package of work he submits to colleges that emphasize film study, along with a documentary he is making about home-schooled students.
Now comes the editing. Vishal taught himself to use sophisticated editing software in part by watching tutorials on YouTube. He does not leave his chair for more than two hours, sipping Pepsi, his face often inches from the screen, as he perfects the clip from the cemetery. The image of the crying woman was shot separately from the image of the kneeling man, and he is trying to fuse them.
"I'm spending two hours to get a few seconds just right," he says.
He occasionally sends a text message or checks Facebook, but he is focused in a way he rarely is when doing homework. He says the chief difference is that filmmaking feels applicable to his chosen future, and he hopes colleges, like the University of Southern California or the California Institute of the Arts in Los Angeles, will be so impressed by his portfolio that they will overlook his school performance.
"This is going to compensate for the grades," he says. On this day, his homework includes a worksheet for Latin, some reading for English class and an economics essay, but they can wait.
For Vishal, there's another clear difference between filmmaking and homework: interactivity. As he edits, the windows on the screen come alive; every few seconds, he clicks the mouse to make tiny changes to the lighting and flow of the images, and the software gives him constant feedback.
This is the story of how to make education work for the digital generation (or the Millennials, or whatever they are), not the story of how going digital is ruining education. Vishal is perfectly capable of intense focus—he just chooses not not apply that concentration to Latin worksheets (worksheet?! They still use worksheets?). Vishal has Ds on his report card, and some cool music videos are not likely to compensate for that fact when he applies to college. But much of the fault for those Ds lies with with teachers, administrators, and legislators who insist on teaching the students they had in 1981, not the students they have in 2010.
But instead of grabbing that thread, the reporter pulls this quote to guide readers to the conclusion that digital kids are virtually identical to those rats that push a button over and over to get cocaine in lab experiments:
"I click and something happens," he says, explaining that, by comparison, reading a book or doing homework is less exciting. "I guess it goes back to the immediate gratification thing."
For more on online education and how to rescue kids from schools that are WiFi blackout zones, go here.
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The Internet Ruins Kids' Brains: Episode 3,462
That's true: They are being bombarded by too much disinformation - especially when it happens to be the truth!
And if this kid doesn't get into the college program he wants (which he admits is likely), and/or the college program he wants does not lead to a marketable degree (even more likely), he's fucked. Jobs doing the things he seems to be interested in are extremely scarce.
I recall having a similar dispute with madbiker way back when about students choosing their own education. Reality is, kids don't know what they want to do at that age and allowing them to bounce from hyper-specialization in the field they're interested in this month to hyper-specialization in the field they're interested in the next month and so on. They need to assemble a good foundation on which to build when they're old enough to really decide what they want to do with their lives.
Unfortunately, that requires doing a lot of things they'd rather not. Memorizing multiplication tables and trig identities, reading boring books, and maybe even doing Latin worksheets! Oh the horror.
Name one profession outside of academia or religion that requires even a basic understanding of Latin.
Jurisprudence. Of course, that alone should be criteria for banishing the teaching of Latin.
Then don't sign up for Latin class. I don't think many public high schools require it any more.
As Zeb notes it is almost always an elective. But Latin does help a ton with remembering vocabulary for the SAT (and presumably in later life as well).
If you have no interest in entering a field where you have to know trig, why would one need to memorize trig identities?
Well-rounded blah blah blah blah
Especially when we know for a fact that people don't remember things they're not interested in. So why should we force kids to memorize things we know they're going to soon forget?
For the same reason that kids benefit from being exposed to foreign language (not necessarily just Latin) - to give them a broader basis for rational, analytic thought. Without the basics of mathematics, or the expansiveness of improved linguistic functions, we may as well resign ourselves to dull witted sheeple that consider Jersey Shore to be high art, and are easily bamboozled into thinking the world is about to end from calamity X because it isn't patently and obviously ridiculous to them.
Such a spark of intellectual ignition happens rarely enough as it is - no need to spray it with a fire extinguisher.
People don't forget basic mathematics because people use basic mathematics. Most people don't use trig or chemistry or latin or Moby Dick or early 19th century Presidential history.
And there's zero evidence to suggest that forcing kids to learn things that they're uninterested in and that they'll never use in their adult life (sometimes, as with math and grammar, the former is necessary) does anything other than increase dropout rates. I would argue that the current state of "dull witted sheeple" exists in part because of the impractical, authoritarian way we "teach" kids.
Please. Teens are better off dropping out of high school, and getting a GED. College students can test-out, why shouldn't high school students? High schools are nothing but glorified day care centers.
Mama don't take my Kodachrome away.
I would agree that some teens are better off doing what you suggest. But a lot of teens are idiots who either have no idea or don't care what they will do in the future. Smart, self motivated kids (like the one in the article seems to be), will probably be OK, but I have to agree with Tulpa that a general background in the fundamentals is prety key for most kids' success later in life (if they want to do anything that requires any sort of book learnin').
And I know it's going to make me sound like an old fogey, but American kids entering college these days have serious problems with mental visualization. There are plots of cones, ellipsoids, and paraboloids in the text, and I've drawn examples of these on the board many times, but still they have a hard time visualizing how changing various parameters changes the shape (ie, changing the angle the cone makes with the z-axis or changing the ratio of the semi-axes of the ellipsoid). They want to see everything plotted in Maple. However, foreign students don't seem to have the same problems.
I definitely ascribe this to sensory over-stimulation during childhood. Children develop mental visualization powers because they want to see things and experience things they can't see and experience. But with total saturation of visual technology in the US since the mid 1990s, kids entering college now have been able to see and experience whatever they want at the touch of a button, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's stunted their imaginations.
Yo, fuck imagination. I'd rather have a Computer Aided Visualization And Simulation (CAVS) system installed in my skull.
I'm finding this to be a serious attitude among many teenagers. Of course, they may just be funnin' me.
Are they on your lawn when they say it? That's key...
I don't know. I think everybody has a difficult time when first presented with 3D problems. Analytic Geometry is not an easy subject to grasp at first. 3D vectors are much more complicated than 2D. It's not until chapter 14 in Swokowski's "Calculus" textbook that they are covered.
I disagree. While every calculus text I've ever seen spends a year on one-variable calculus and then jumps to multiple dimensions, I think that approach is fundamentally wrongheaded. I'm in the process of writing a calculus text that introduces all the concepts in arbitrary numbers of dimensions from the beginning...we'll see how that goes.
Sounds like it could work, but not for everyone. For some people calculus "clicks" when they can visualize the concepts qualitatively. That is, to see the math for what it is. Others have no interest in this and would prefer to just learn the steps for how to do it and get the right answer. Sometimes this is sufficient as they will never appreciate math beyond some mechanical task to finish. Maybe you can make it work to turn some of the latter into the former.
We need more people capable of multidimensional conceptual visualization, they tend to be smart, capable problem solvers, good engineers. Good luck.
You sound like an old fogey. 🙂
Imagination requires motivation. I don't think visual technology hinders that at all. I went through the calculus/diffe sequence after an adolescence spent learning 3D modeling programs. The things I learned in those modeling programs made multivariable calculus a breeze. And I'm not bragging--I'm pretty stupid when it comes to mathematical theory in general. I'm saying that my prior curiosity in manipulating 3D plots by changing individual variables was immensely helpful when it came time to learn the rigorous mathematics behind it.
That's not what most kids are using technology to do, though. The specific application you pursued was a useful one, which obviously turned out well for you. But that's not usually what happens if you just let kids do what they want.
We really don't know what happens if you just let kids do what they want, because there haven't been any studies on it, really. That said, there are lots of unschooling success stories out there.
http://www.examiner.com/unscho.....ompetition
So, it's sorta like that "Free Market" that everyone keeps blaming, but which doesn't actually exist.
That's not what most kids are using technology to do, though.
Tulpa i think you are comparing an education one gets from a directed private school education with a dicking around on the internet education when the rest of us are comparing an education one gets from public school vs dicking around on the internet.
In our comparison dicking around on the internet is a better education then your average public school.
I mean for Christ sakes one can get a public high school diploma without taking one algebra class let alone calculus.
I agree that much of the public school system is substandard, though many suburban districts are as effective as private schools.
But this is a different dispute about a more fundamental question of whether teenagers' learning should be directed at all.
Since all teenagers are different, hopefully we can agree that some teenagers require directed learning, while others don't. And there should be varying degrees of direction, depending on the particular teenager.
bright young high school senior who hasn't done his summer reading because the Internet distracted him for three months his parents didn't ride his ass as they should have to make sure he got his reading done.
We spent a good chunk of the summer nagging our 12 year-old daughter to get her summer reading done. She spent time on the Internet and playing with her Wii, but she also got her reading done.
Maybe this kid's parents should have taught him a little better time management and personal responsibility.
That doesn't change an antiquated education system that refuses to adapt to the times. Should this kid's parents have taught him better time management? Sure. Does that mean he should go along to get along? All a public education really teaches you is how to be somewhere for 8 hours a day.
Also, to throw in the fogey comment, in my day we didn't have to read books over the goddamn summer because our school time wasn't swallowed up by hours of standardized test prep.
"All a public education really teaches you is how to be somewhere for 8 hours a day."
Amen to that. Traditional education is mostly about keeping your butt in a chair for eight hours and doing something you're not interested in for an authority figure you don't care about, which is to say it's preparation for having most jobs these days. These kids are getting to discover some of what the rest of the world has to offer, and it's no surprise it's a lot more interesting than assigned summer reading or French II.
Not to say that some of these kids don't have discipline issues - the boy who plays video games for six hours a day every day? Where the hell are his parents? Or the girl who sends 27,000 texts a month: I doubt she's paying for that herself, so her parents need to take away her cellphone and make her sit at the kitchen table to do her homework.
But the results...she got three Bs on her report card? Hell, when I was in school I managed to do that all by myself without a cell phone or computer. This is just another retread of "Jazz music is warping our children!", "Comic books are warping our children!", "TV is warping our children!", etc.
This is just another retread of "Jazz music is warping our children!", "Comic books are warping our children!", "TV is warping our children!", etc.
Ah, our age-old enemy, Change.
Agreed. I dropped out, got my GED, and CLEP tested my way out of two years of college, a path I highly recommend. Of my three kids, the oldest half assed high school then worked and saved money til, at 24, she felt ready for college, at which point her writing skills, 780 verbal SAT score and work experience got her into Bennington with a 30k annual scholarship.
My second also half-assed high school, worked full time starting at 14, then buckled down and got a diploma so he could join the Marines. Two years in he's a corporal who's completed CBRN school, Army Technical Escort school, Marine Martial Arts Instructor training, and is taking college courses between deployments; he was also 3rd Division Marine of the quarter last quarter.
Youngest left high school at 16 and did a semester at community college before deciding she'd rather work. So at 18 she's working full time, living on her own and enjoying life. She's not wasting her time or anyone else's taking up space in classes she isn't ready to appreciate.
Teens who are allowed and encouraged to think for themselves, and who are willing to take responsibility for their own lives, can find a path that suits them better than anything a high school guidance department could devise.
Youngest left high school at 16 and did a semester at community college before deciding she'd rather work.
Mom? Wait, no, I don't have two older siblings. Never mind.
It might surprise you that I fucked around in high school and got into trouble at that age too. Didn't start college until my mid-20s...so I lost about 8 years of my life to stupid dissipation.
But I know plenty of other kids who behaved similarly at that age and wound up in jail, pregnant, drug-addicted, or worse. You can't base the system on best case scenarios.
Basing a system on worst-case scenarios doesn't seem to pan out too well either. Perhaps it's not a problem that can be solved systematically?
Parent's make more difference to a student's success than any school program ever can.
Your kids sound like they made good choices in life. I'm assuming they have good genes from what you describe. But it would be a mistake to design a system with kids like that as our model. They're not typical.
No argument there, but I think that part of a parent's responsibility is to know their kids well enough to know when to back off and when to bear down. There isn't any one-size-fits-all formula, because even in the same family each child has different needs. Too many parents abdicate that responsibility, in the delusional belief that schools have the time, interest, or ability to see their child as an individual.
So how do you serve both the typical and the atypical? We can't base a system on serving the atypical because that doesn't serve the typical, but the system based on the typical isn't serving the atypical. Majority wins, the oddballs can STFU and get out if they don't like it?
Well, I support school choice so I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution either. But even oddballs could benefit from direction to their learning, though it's probably different direction from what typical students need.
I'm sure a crack team of degreed educators could devise an "approved" curriculum covering video editing for high school students which would completely suck the life out of the process, and crush the creativeness right out of them.
It's possible to learn video editing software on your own AND keep up with schoolwork.
This attitude that the current educational system quashes creativity and such is laughable, since it produced all the minds who created the technology that we have today.
And what creative breakthroughs have we even had in the field of technology since 1990, anyway? None, really. Oh, the tech has become more advanced no doubt, but it's just been a steady evolutionary path, not the breakthroughs that are the product of truly creative minds.
The question is WHY should you keep up with schoolwork if it has no bearing at all on your life or what you want from your life?
Suffering is The Path to Joy.
So you were raised Catholic too?
When you're 15 you have no idea what your life is going to require. Especially if you think you do.
This is generally true. But we know that one's life is unlikely to require knowing the periodic table, the plot of Jane Eyre, or the first governor of Texas.
We do know that it is very likely that life is going to require being able to read with comprehension, execute basic mathematics with precision, and write with clarity.
We have lots of kids who can't do any of those things, but who are being told that they have to memorize lots of stuff they are unlikely to need. This is perhaps the very worst way to make sure that most kids are able to do the things they will need to be able to do in life.
Everything outside of those three things (and perhaps courses in critical thinking) should be electives, readily available for kids who are truly interested in them.
This reminds me of that bit from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where they figure out that the population of the universe is zero...because the universe is infinite and therefore the population density is zero.
Yes, if you look at any particular topic taught in school beyond the fourth grade level, it's unlikely that that particular topic is going to be crucial to one's future prospects. But we know that there are few jobs out there in modern society that are doable by someone with fourth-grade level education. So obviously something about later schooling is necessary.
Well, that's not a very good comparison, because very few fourth graders can read adult writing with comprehension, do math up to pre-algebra with precision, or express themselves in writing clearly and with a mastery of the language.
Then again, most 9th graders can't do these things either, but that's mostly because a large portion of their time is wasted memorizing history and science facts, along with popular literature. And I absolutely love history, science, and literature.
If reading, writing, and arithmetic were the priority and the only mandatory subjects, while making other subjects available to those kids who are interested, not only would more kids be able to read, write, and do math well, but the drop-out rate would decline.
We have got to kill this bullshit idea that everyone in society has to read all the great books whatever those are and be the same suck ass yuppie college over achievers. Do you really care if your dentist or construction contractor or computer programmer or anyone else has read what a bunch of ed majors consider to be important? Summer reading? Are you fucking kidding me? Only a total suck ass drone would ever let the school tell them what to read over the summer.
This country was built by people who dropped out of school in the eighth grade. And it now being destroyed by people who always made sure to complete their summer reading lists.
This country was built by people who dropped out of school in the eighth grade.
Cite? And don't bring up people who lived before there were free public schools beyond eighth grade.
And don't bring up people who lived before there were free public schools beyond eighth grade.
I'm not sure there has been much done to brag about since then...
Go back and read and you will find most of the industrial barrons of the 19th Century had limited formal educations.
John Rockefeller quit school at 16
Vanderbilt quit at eleven
Carnegie left school at age 13
Neither of the Wright Brothers graduated high school.
That is just to name a few but covers US Steal, the Airplane, Standard Oil and the railroad industry. And that of course leaves out the millions of people who left school early to form businesses and farms that built much of this country's wealth.
And as far as compulsory school goes, if we did all of that without compulsory school, maybe there wasn't quite as much need for it as we thought.
US Steal -- I'm pretty sure that's the government, not Carnegie's company.
He obvious left school in the 8th grade.
US Steal -- I'm pretty sure that's the government, not Carnegie's company.
You must be of the generation who got a public education and does not know how to use Google.
I don't what people mean by built, and you may be right for business leaders, but most of the major Founding Fathers were college-educated - even Hamilton, who began as a dirt-poor kid in the Caribbean (although it is true he did not graduate). The major exceptions were Washington and Franklin.
Katherine, I was with you until you said the book he couldn't finish was Cat's Cradle. Geez, I can see if it was The Scarlet Letter or something, but the Cat's Cradle?--easy style, relatively short, fair amount of sex.
This kid's a lazy punk, that's all there is to it.
Seriously, Cat's Cradle is one of the easiest, most fun books to read that I can think of. I can't imagine not finishing it. What is it, like 150 pages?
This kid's a lazy punk, that's all there is to it.
I used to think I was also a Lazy Punk. Then I realized that I'm totally capable of putting in 40hrs/week into gaming and my hobbies, in addition to my job and sleep. I'll have to give "Cat's Cradle" a try, but if it's boring I'm still not gonna slog through the remaining 100 pages "just because." I've got better things to do, like argue with y'all!
Just read the damn thing, punk.
Read Mother Night instead.
It is a better book with better sex scenes.
I don't even remember what Cat's Cradle was about.
I don't even remember what Cat's Cradle was about.
Oh yeah it was the one about ice 9
I still don't remember anything about it except the awesome apocalyptic ending when the world's oceans freeze over.
Oh wait I ruined it...oh well fuck that book read Mother Night instead.
I have read more on the internet then i have read in books.
I know that does not sound like much but in a given year i read between 10 to 20 books.
If kids are reading more then 10 to 20 books equivalent on the internet a year it is far more reading then I ever did in high school.
I have to say, facebook and reason mag used to be a huge timesuck, but what I'm realizing is that it just meant that there wasn't something that held my attention long enough to make it worth it. Now that I'm being paid to do a job, and it's a job that I enjoy, I'm far more disciplined. I'm also a better multitasker.
Interesting Article
I remember working on a road project near Woodside back in '98, and the state inspector spent most of his time in his truck trying to learn how to build websites on his Thinkpad. LOL.
This Singh kid seems like an adept, regular kid; he helps his parents with their computer problems and such. It would seem like, of all places, Woodside High would be pointing kids towards careers in technology and promoting software and tech skills.
On the other hand, teenagers shouldn't have cellphones; they should be cleaning out horse stalls or learning how to cook a roast or knit or something.
There is a fascinating salt industry near Redwood City and Woodside. Maybe these techno-freaks will find salvation by working in the salt ponds 'til midnight, rather than glued to a screen watching YouTube videos or texting or posting stupid comments on websites. I don't know. There's probably no hope, anyway.
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