Reason Morning Links: Taliban Talking to Karzai, Dems Look to Prop 19 Supporters, Hillary for VP?

• California Democrats look for support among younger voters supporting Prop 19.
• Times Square would-be bomber gets life in prison.
• Study: Light drinking during pregnancy has no harmful effect on fetus.
• Reports say Taliban is in negotiations with Karzai administration.
• Bob Woodward reports Obama may dump Biden for Hillary Clinton in 2012.
• Cell phones could help bring justice to Afghanistan.

Comments

[Johnny Longtorso]

Teachers aren't heroes and pretending they are only muddles the debate over education reform

...Do we really want our "best and brightest" to go into teaching? How about having them become CEOs of innovative companies that create jobs and expand our economy? How about they go into the sciences and invent ways for us to live our lives better?

Mark me down as one who doesn't think we should hope our very "best and brightest" go into teaching remedial math. I prefer them curing cancer. I'm quite content with having a reasonably competent, acceptably intelligent, friendly and committed person teach addition and subtraction to America's tots, thank you very much....

The Final Solution to the Global Warming Skeptic Question

...The central moral vulnerability of radical environmentalism is that it does exactly what the Nazis did: it advances arguments that would justify a wildly hubristic, fabulist attitude about our fellow humans; and it never mitigates the force of that rhetorical theme with an uncompromising commitment to the moral right of those fellow humans to their lives and liberty....

[MNG]

I think teachers, like many other professions (from soldiers to entrepenuers) can certainly be heroes, though I think no profession automatically qualifies one as a "hero." For one thing, the CEO's and scientists you point to often testify that a teacher helped put them on the path to where they got.

[MNG]

"The central moral vulnerability of radical environmentalism is that it does exactly what the Nazis did:"

Wow, hyperbolic Godwin first thing in the morning!

[Rich]

The central moral vulnerability of radical environmentalism

Moreover, you know who else thought that's too long for a band name?

[wylie]

T.C.M.V.O.R.E. You're welcome.

[wylie]

"T.C.M.V.O.R.E." You're, welcome.

[wylie]

"T.C.M.V.O.R.E." You're welcome.

(posted despite a lack of cooperation from the spam filter)

[wylie]

T.C.M.V.O.R.E. You're, welcome.

(the spam filter is really fighting me on this one, c'mon, 4th times a charm...)

[wylie]

T.C.M.V.O.R.E.

Acronyms count in Great Band Name contests, right?

[wylie]

T.C.M.V.O.R.E.

[wylie]

TCMVORE. Acronyms can be Great Band Names too, right?

[John]

When you make a video showing the violent death of children who oppose you, it is not a Godwin when someone says you are like the Nazis. What is worse is that even those greens who have criticize the video haven't criticized it because it advocates the murder of all those opposed to them up to an including children. Instead they have criticized it for being "unproductive". So I guess the fantasies of killing children would be fine with them if it worked as propaganda.

[grrizzly]

It's too late to bring up Godwin now. Eco-fascists have revealed themselves. The scum behind "10:10 no pressure" are Nazis. Not the Nazis who killed 6 million Jews, but brownshirt bullies before Hitler came to power.

[MNG]

Keep Godwin alive!

[Godwin]

I'm alive!!! I'm aliiiiiiiiive!

[Pip]

Those who hide under their blankets in fear of history are likely to repeat it.

[JW]

Guys, guys...Massah Nice Guy is right, they're not Nazis. Nazis didn't routinely kill dissidents to their regime. They just beat them up.

The 10:10 nutjobs are Stalinists and/or Maoists. Big difference. Besides, Hitler was a piker compared to the Stalin and Mao. They killed 10's of millions of people, compared to his measly 6 million.

[SugarFree]

See, I think the Nazi analogy is apt. They started off arguing that society would be better off if a small segment of people died, whereas Stalin/Mao thought they were improving the people themselves with mass murder. The concentration camps and the gulags served different purposes.

The 10:10ers don't want to starve millions, they just want to blow them up rather surgically and dispose of the remains in a low carbon manner. No ovens for them.

[wylie]

...yeah but if you used solar ovens filled with an oxygen free atmosphere...maybe I'm thinking this out too far...

[SugarFree]

You would end up with people charcoal, but that could be buried.

[wylie]

You would end up with people charcoal, but that could be buried.
reply to this

Yeah, i was aiming for a sort of genocide/carbon-sequestering combo program.

[John]

That is a good point. That is the problem with the Godwin rule. Occasionally people really are like Nazis and the comparison is apt.

[Nick]

That doesn't disprove the rule.

[MNG]

The hyperbole is amazing. Even if you think the 10/10 folks want to kill global warming skeptics (by pressing buttons that make people spontaneously explode?), as opposed to trying some bizarre shock comedy to "raise awareness," they are still unlike Nazis, Stalinists and such in a pretty major way: they have not killed anyone. But hey, sling the hyperbole anyway!

[Mr. FIFY]

Marxists, then?

[wylie]

by pressing buttons that make people spontaneously explode

Button causes explosion != spontaneous

[JW]

And who says that the useful idiot is an outdated concept?

[JW]

Stupid nesting. That was to Massah Nice Guy, not The Sug.

[SugarFree]

I pride myself on being a useless idiot, thank you very much.

[John]

I have no idea what they "want to do" since I can't read their minds. But I do they seem to take great joy in fantasizing about it. And that is disturbing enough.

[MNG]

"But I do they seem to take great joy in fantasizing about it."

WTF?

[John]

We all know you are stupid MNG. But no one thinks you are this stupid. What the hell else would you call that film other than a professionally made revenge fantasy?

[MNG]

"I have no idea what they "want to do" since I can't read their minds...I do they seem to take great joy in fantasizing about it."

So you can't read their minds but you do "know"* that the video represents their fantasies?

*(I hope you meant to put a "know" in that sentence, though for the life of me I can't guess what you meant to put in the second sentence to make it make sense, hence hte WTF, but hey, when you get partisan-excited I know you lose your loose grip on English)

[MNG]

"What the hell else would you call that film other than a professionally made revenge fantasy?"

I've told you what I call it: a bizarre attempt at shock inducing, attention getting "awareness raising" about their "10:10" campaign. I agree it comes off as a heavy-handed, disturbing homage to comformity. But I doubt it represents a "revenge fantasy." As evidence I point to the over-the-top-ness of the video as a whole (a magical button that makes people explode, the teacher's comments about remember your homework, of course not for the two kids who exploded, the "no pressure" comments, etc.).

I mean, when Limbaugh used to "abort" callers do you think he was fantasizing about actually aborting them? WTF would that even mean? Likewise I don't think this group wants to blow up those who don't join its campaign with a magic red button...

[John]

If Limbaugh spent thousands making film where Democrats were blown into a bloody mess, you would have a stroke. And he would be a fascist dick for doing. But you defend this. Because they are on your side, there is nothing they can do that you won't defend.

There is just nothing these people could do that you wouldn't find a way to defend. If it had been done for a cause you didn't like you would be having a fit. Instead, you equate it to Limbaugh calling hanging up aborting a call.

You are really disgusting sometimes. I don't understand how anyone could defend this or think it is funny or think that it is just harmless fun. They spent months making a video showing the graphic killing of children and not one person bothered to think "hey this is kind of gross". And worse still, even after it is released people like you are totally unbothered by it and defend it.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Seriously, of all the things to defend, why this? It is like a reflex with you. You just can't seem to help yourself.

[BG]

The 10:10 nutjobs are Stalinists and/or Maoists. Big difference. Besides, Hitler was a piker compared to the Stalin and Mao. They killed 10's of millions of people, compared to his measly 6 million.

The Nazis killed a lot more than 6 million innocent people. 6 million is the estimate of the number of Jews killed in the holocaust, but the Nazis also murdered millions of non-Jewish people (even if you only count non-battlefield murders).

And of course, the Nazis launched major wars of aggression in which many millions were killed during the fighting. And the rules of engagement the Nazis used made little or no attempt to avoid civilian casualties (and sometimes even sought to maximize civilian death tolls).

Still, it is true that some communist thugs have more murders on their hands than the Nazis, though I suspect it is for no other reason than greater opportunity to rack up a higher body count.

[Azathoth]

Always thought 'godwinning' was an inappropriate invoking of nazism or Hitler.

After the WTF!!?!1!STUPDITY!!! guy(who has completely disappeared, btw), it's pretty clear that radical environmentalists want to make it clear to all and sundry that they'd like all and sundry dead. The explosions are just a plus.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Just a guess, but I'd imagine he's completely disappeared because no one in the media could find a way to make him out to be a Tea Partier or libertarian.

[mad libertarian guy]

This.

[Mr Whipple]

Last week, MSNBC ? a cable news station similar to Fox News but without viewers ?

Priceless.

...Do we really want our "best and brightest" to go into teaching?

Well, no. According to the old adage, "Those who can, do, those who can't, teach".

[Corduroy]

Hadn't seen that. Thanks

[Jerry]

If Clinton has any chutzpah she would run on her own in 2012.

[James Ard]

Hillary will likely be running on her own because Obama won't be seeking a second term. Just not enough time for golf and vacations being the leader of the free world.

[Atanarjuat]

You might be on to something. Maybe he just wanted the White House gig under his belt so he could make tons of money speaking a few times a year and spend the rest of his time relaxing.

[Mr. FIFY]

Obama will, of course, pay his fair share in taxes for these speaking engagements... right?

[Mike M.]

She's going to.

The stuff about Biden and Clinton switching positions before '12 is nothing but liberal wishful thinking. Everyone knows that Obama and the Clintons still detest each other.

[James Ard]

Obama detests Clinton in the way an employee detests his boss. You don't really believe that there are two different Chicago political machines, do you?

[John]

Him accepting Hillary as VP would be abject humiliation. It would be Obama admitting that he needs some adult supervision. I can't see a guy with his ego doing that.

[Pro Libertate]

Adult? She's no more politically savvy than he is.

[John]

I didn't mean it was reality. I meant it would be perceived that way. What other explanation can you give for taking on Hillary other than, "okay I know I have messed up but I am bringing on Hillary to fix things"?

[Nick]

Besides, some militant feminist...maybe even his wife...would off him. Not worth the risk.

[Puff-pass]

Thread-jack [sorry!]: Is Prop 19 in trouble?

[Johnny Longtorso]

Projected Interest Payments on Federal Debt Balloon

[JW]

Predatory lenders!

[R C Dean]

That chart looks wrong to me. Why does a 20% increase in the interest rate (from 5% to 6%) result in no change in interest payments through 2058?

[Johnny Longtorso]

FBI investigates prominent labor leader Andy Stern

[Mr. FIFY]

About damn time. Too bad it won't lead to a prison gig for Stern.

[Johnny Longtorso]

For a magazine called 'Reason', you're strangely concerned that the Reason thong is made in the USA. What about the law of comparative advantage?

[capitol l]

Don't you think that it is a little early for drinking?

[JEP]

It's all about the Irish coffee...

[hmm]

Who says the US doesn't have the advantage and specialization in making cotton thongs? Or who says a comparative advantage has to exist with respect to cotton thongs?

[Cabeza de Vaca]

Don't worry they're made in an illegal alien sweat shop in east LA.

[Almanian]

That's the American Way?.

*eyes tear up with pride*

[Fist of Etiquette]

If I wear this thong, am I expected to have a red stencil "Made in the USA" tattoo on my left thigh?

[Ska]

No, just put out.

[Abdul]

Depends on where you were born. Let's see your birth certificate.

[Rahm Emanuel]

Screw those Chicago ingrates: Obama-Emanuel 2012.

[Joe Biden]

In any event, I've been wanting to spend more time with my train, I mean, my family.

[West Texas Boy]

Biden's going to end up like the guy in the airport terminal - just sitting on the train every day going back and forth.

Nobody wants him in DC and he has nothing to do in Wilmington.

[T]

He has something to do in DC?

[Joe Biden]

Stand up, Chuck!

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Reports say Taliban is in negotiations with Karzai administration.

I'd be surprised if anything came of this, but it's fun to imagine the reaction of this country's Chairborne Commandos if the various Afghan factions came to an agreement and told the U.S. to get the fuck out. "Hey! Afghanistan is part of our empire now! What is this peace shit?"

[John Thacker]

Presumably they would be just as put out as the people who want us to leave places even when the government and people beg us to stay. "Damnit, we said this is imperialism and an unwanted invasion, and the opinion of you foreigners can't possibly change that."

[DG]

I'm stealing "Chairborne Commandos". Hope you don't mind.

[Facebook]

Our attorneys will be contacting you both. We are in the process of trademarking "Chairborne Commandos."

[John Thacker]

That's how politics works. The Democratic politicians still won't publicly support legalization, but they'll favor behind the scenes help to get the questions on the ballot if it looks like it'll boost the right type of turnout.

[SugarFree]

Don't click this link.

[Alice]

Must ... Control ... Finger ... of ... Death ...

[Ska]

What's next, a garbage disposal version?

[-]

SugarFree|10.6.10 @ 8:34AM|#
Don't click this link.

I never do. Sorry.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Go Team Edward!

[Nephilium]

Screw the Twilight teams... there is but one true team.

[db]

Hells with that; Go Team Buffy!

[DG]

When does the lycanthrope version come out? I'm a Team Jacob kinda guy.

[Warty]

Much less horrifying than I expected.

[SugarFree]

OK...

[Warty]

This Ain't Avatar

Larry Flynt is a national treasure.

[Mr. FIFY]

Ahem...

http://www.amazon.com/Hello-Ki.....B000JO034A

[Mr Whipple]

OK. I might actually have to pay for that one.

[Mr Whipple]

To:

This Ain't Avatar

Nested comments.

[MNG]

Obama's pick of Biden, if you recall, was the last straw for me on the man, afterwards I declared him a terrible pick. My exact response was "WTF?" But picking HRC in 12 would imo only be seen as patronizing to HRC supporters (of whom I was not one). Obama's hope is that the GOP will nominate someone the public dislikes worse than him, like Palin or Romney.

[JEP]

If Palin, Romney, or Gingrich is nominated by the GOP, I think the US will come as close as it ever has to a three party race for the presidency...

[John]

The problem is that the third party candidate would be some GOP establishment douche. I think a third party candidate might be in order. But if Palin were to win the nomination, the people launching it would just be GOP establishment types worried that they wouldn't be able to loot anymore.

[MNG]

Perhaps, but if you could get past your shoolboy crush on Palin you would see that many people simply see her as a disasterous choice for the nation.

[John]

I know. She might got out and triple the deficit in one year and pass a horrible health care plan over the objection of most of the nation. You are right there are some serious risks associated with Palin.

If there is one thing the Obama administration has proven, the country can survive virtually any level of incompetence and stupidity on the part of the President. In an odd way, the Obama disaster is almost comforting.

[MNG]

No matter how bad things might be, they could always be worse. The American public realizes that, and a Palin candidacy would trigger that thought.

But hey, if the GOP can't pick someone reasonable I can only hope they go with Palin...

[John]

"But hey, if the GOP can't pick someone reasonable I can only hope they go with Palin..."

If you admit Obama is a disaster and you apparently think that Palin is some kind of monster, why would you hope that? Wouldn't you hope that the GOP puts up someone you find palatable and an improvement over Obama? And since you don't and are hoping for Palin, doesn't that just prove that you don't really give a shit about anything beyond your team winning?

[Donald Trump]

"But hey, if the GOP can't pick someone reasonable I can only hope they go with Palin..."

[Waves hands furiously]

[MNG]

"Wouldn't you hope that the GOP puts up someone you find palatable and an improvement over Obama?"

"But hey, if the GOP can't pick someone reasonable"

One thing I always love about John is that his reading comprehension is so warped by his hyper-partisan filter often he will think he has a "gotcha" when you've already answered his question!

[James Ard]

Mitch Daniels traveled to New York to talk to the king makers last week. There will be no third party pressure.

[John]

I would bet on a Democratic third party ticket before a Republican one. How long before the Left turns on Obama over Afghanistan and Iraq? If Obama is unpopular, the Left is going to feel empowered to go after him.

[James Ard]

I'd buy stock in the Green party if there was any for sale.

[Mr. FIFY]

Nice thought, James, but the Greens are too anti-capitalist to sell stock in themselves.

[Mr Whipple]

Yeah, then they can explain participatory economics to everyone.

I've been reading up on some of that left libertarian shit. Pure fucking evil.

[GinSlinger]

You mean closer than 1860?

[West Texas Boy]

I agree with you on the "WTF" part of Biden. Figured at the time it wouldn't be Hillary but thought he could have at least done better than Joe.

That said, it doesn't matter who he picks. I literally cannot think of a scenario at this point where he doesn't get reelected. The Obama coalition of racists and stupid people will happily vote for him a second time for equally spurrious reasons as before.

The midterms are one thing, the presidential election, where people vote into the cult for less rational reasons is entirely another. Big Bird could be in the second slot and his hardcore supporters wouldn't care.

[West Texas Boy]

That would be "spurious".

I doubt Obama's supporters care about his saddle and tack fetish.

Or hell, maybe they do. It might explain a lot.

[John]

"I literally cannot think of a scenario at this point where he doesn't get reelected."

Baring a miracle recovery, I can't see a circumstance where he does. Presidential elections are always a mandate on the incumbent. Unknowns like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton have won because people vote based on their opinion of the incumbent not necessarily on the strength of the challenger. This is not 1936, although it feels like it some days. No President in this day and age is going to be re-elected with the economic record Obama is compiling.

[MNG]

It is rather disturbing how much of his win, perhaps anyone's recent Prez win, hinges simply on "GOTV." Imagine that the nation's most powerful position hinges on people who must be called, cajoled, etc., to go down to the polls for twenty minutes and pull a lever...

[SugarFree]

joe says that cajoling people to go vote who otherwise don't give a shit is the essence of democracy. The vote of the disengaged is somehow more precious.

[Mo]

I'd rather have a bunch of unengaged voters that actually work* than have the vote dominated by a bunch of highly engaged retirees.

* Sadly, this doesn't apply to the people targeted by GOTV drives.

[John]

I have always thought you should have to be productively employed to vote. I would even be willing to disenfranchise myself and agree that government employees shouldn't be able to vote. The people who pay the freight ought to be the ones voting.

But I would add one caveat. If you are "retired" and have significant private income either through savings or a private retirement annuity, you should still be able to vote. In that case, your income is still mostly earned, it has just been deferred.

[Jim Crow]

RACIST!

[John]

What Jim, you don't think black people work for a living? Are they all welfare queens?

[MNG]

"The people who pay the freight ought to be the ones voting."

Iirc in Starship Troopers only those who served in the military could vote.

[John]

No just the opposite. The military, as government employees, would not have the vote.

[Pope Jimbo]

Not just the military. You could serve in a number of different functions.

The main character just ended up as a grunt because he didn't qualify for anything else (I'm remembering here, so I may be wrong).

And they couldn't vote until their service was over.

[West Texas Boy]

Not an original idea of mine, but basing federal voting rights on net payment of income taxes (but not payroll taxes) would accomplish the same thing.

And you can just net government employees' salaries against the calculus.

This starts getting overly complicated you start factoring in companies with government contracts and people living off of savings, etc etc, but who says that complexity is an obstacle to government these days anyway?

[JW]

I prefer GTFOTV. Voting only encourages them.

[West Texas Boy]

+1

[SugarFree]

Oddly, on review of the thread, MNG was saying the exact opposite the last time this subject came up.

SugarFree|10.17.08 @ 2:56PM|#
People who couldn't be bother to register to vote until someone came around to pester them to do it. Truly the bedrock of a successful democracy.

joe|10.17.08 @ 2:57PM|#
I know, SugarFree, how about we give you everyone's head shot and resume, and you get to decide who's worthy? Maybe we can list their landholdings.

Mr. Nice Guy|10.17.08 @ 2:59PM|#
Sugarfree
You could give them tests to vote. That's got a good history to it.

The simplest way to state this is that if the government is going to project its power over any person then it must allow that person to have some say in order for it to be legit in any way.

SugarFree|10.17.08 @ 3:04PM|#
Don't be silly. Can you imagine how much headshots and resumes for 13 million people would cost?

A hour-long visit to the courthouse is not a onerous poll tax.

Mr. Nice Guy|10.17.08 @ 3:08PM|#
"A hour-long visit to the courthouse is not a onerous poll tax."

How about if you have no car? Like you are elderly? Believe it or not, any travel is onerous on some folks Sugarfree.

[John]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. LOL

[SugarFree]

Longtime readers will also recognize that thread as the origin of:

joe|10.17.08 @ 2:47PM|#
God bless ACORN, out there registering 13 million new voters. They're doing God's work in some of the toughest neighborhoods in America.

[John]

My other favorite Joe classic is how he always claimed that requiring an ID to vote was unfair because a lot of immigrants don't have IDs. The fact that aliens and LPRs don't have the right to vote never entered his mind.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Actually, the correct quote is "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Consistency itself is not necessarily a bad thing - it is when it is done merely for its own sake, with a disregard for countervailing factors, that it becomes the hobgoblin.

[Pro Libertate]

There's something wrong with inducing people to vote and instructing them on what to vote for, then transporting them to the polls.

[SugarFree]

joe|10.17.08 @ 3:20PM|#
Bringing people who aren't part of the political process in makes our democracy more legitimate. It's the people so outside of that process that they don't even know how it works that are the most important to bring in.

The thing I admired most about that venal midget was his ability to stay on message. Imagine saying something that ludicrous with a straight face.

[Pro Libertate]

What's the difference in dragging people to vote who wouldn't otherwise vote, who don't have much clue about the candidates or the issues, and who you instruct to vote a certain way and simply filling in the ballot on their behalf?

[T]

When I used to work elections I would get people who would ask me who to vote for. That always bothered me. If you have to ask random election worker, you shouldn't really be here.

[Pro Libertate]

Polls should have bouncers.

[New Black Panther Dean]

Preach it, brother!

[MNG]

There's no inconsistency there. I'm not against helping people who want to vote/register to the polls. I'm not for browbeating people who don't care to vote/register to do so.

[MNG]

And the more people that register and vote is a good thing, as long as they are not cajoled into doing so.

[SugarFree]

You really think that ACORN and the like aren't browbeating people to register to vote? They are knocking on people's doors. They are going to people so disengaged that they won't even register without being reminded to. Are those people all just "Oh, shit. I totally forgot to register," or is it more like "Don't you want Obama to win? We have to stop the Republicans!" Everything ACORN and the other GOTV organizations are doing is cajoling people to vote.

I'm fine with the stupid (Wuh? I got to register?) and the lazy (Why do I have to go to the courthouse/mail a form back?) not voting. (Public transportation is available in ACORN neighborhoods.)

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, but don't pretend, like that shitbag joe, that it doesn't serve a cynically partisan purpose.

[MNG]

Both parties do GOTV efforts. Like I said, I'm all for helping people who want to register/vote do so. There really are people who can't navigate this process and/or travel (yes, even who cannot take the bus SF; elderly people often have trouble walking to the nearest bus-stop, climbing the steps on buses, etc).

I'm no fan of ACORN, like many government contractees they are as corrupt as the day is long.

[John]

"There really are people who can't navigate this process and/or travel (yes, even who cannot take the bus SF; elderly people often have trouble walking to the nearest bus-stop, climbing the steps on buses, etc)."

Yeah, and there is no one out there to help them do anything but ACORN. And honestly, if you are so old and frail you can't get to a bus stop and have no family to help you, is voting really that high on your list of problems? If partisan shitbags like ACRON spent their time actually helping people in need, maybe the world might be a better place.

[T]

I call BS on the whole old and frail and can't get to the polls crap. I've had old people who wheeled their oxygen tanks in to vote. I had one old guy drool on the floor the whole time he was working the machine (he apologized for it, but still). Old people will figure a way out to get to the polls and vote if they give a damn.

[John]

"I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, but don't pretend, like that shitbag joe, that it doesn't serve a cynically partisan purpose."

Exactly. If those people voted overwhelmingly GOP or for anyone besides the Greens or the Democrats, no fucking way would ACORN be out registering them.

[NoVAHockey]

"I literally cannot think of a scenario at this point where he doesn't get reelected."

I don't know. I could see the rust belt states flipping on a pure anti-Obama vote (PA, OH, IN). That would mean the GOP would have to reclaim VA and NC to cut Obama's lead to 280 to 258. That puts them in striking distance.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm going on the record that Obama won't win, barring some major change, like aliens coming down to Earth and giving us total enlightenment (come to think of it, he'd lose then, too). . .even if the GOP nominee sucks.

[Rich]

Obama's hope is that the GOP will nominate someone the public dislikes worse than him, like Palin or Romney

or Hillary Clinton. 😉

[SugarFree]

European Beard Championships

Beards as in facial hair, not the Katie Holmes/Kelly Preston type.

[JW]

Which one is Warty?

[SugarFree]

All of them.

[Warty]

Hay guise, check out my new look.

[Pro Libertate]

Wait a second. Are you seriously suggesting that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are gay? Is that some Scientology thing? I mean, Tom Cruise was in Top Gun!

Wait a second.

[Mike M.]

ADP report shows that private sector shed 39,000 jobs in September.

[Mr. FIFY]

But... but... there are more government jobs! And top thinkers like Ed Schultz tell us that's a GOOD thing!

[Mango Punch]

Firefighters let home burn b/c homeowner didn't pay fee - very libertarian of them.

[Max]

ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF!

[kinnath]

you're really late on this one

[Mango Punch]

Reasonable - I was away Sunday-Teusday and not up to speed on the news.

[Mr Whipple]

Even Truthdig got that one. Of course, they blamed the Tea Parties.

[Mr Whipple]

Here, if you're interested

http://www.truthdig.com/eartot....._20101005/

[JW]

WHAT? When did this happen? I'm outraged!!1!!1!

[JD]

Firefighters City employees let home burn b/c homeowner didn't pay fee

FTFY

[18 to 29]

Democratic pollster Andrew Myers [said,] "If you are 18 to 29, [marijuana legalization is] far and away the most compelling reason to go out and vote."

Meyers, eff you.

[SugarFree]

Picking Clinton over Biden can only be considered assassination insurance. Anyone warming to the idea that Biden would at least be an ineffectual president would now have to consider Clinton as the replacement.

[Left Winger]

SUGARFREE IS THREATENING TO ASSASSINATE THE PRESIDENT!!!1!

SEE HOW DEMENTED THESE RAT BAGGING TEA FUCKERS ARE!!!1!!

[JD]

Everyone wave to the nice Secret Service agents!

[SFC B]

Isn't Hillary Clinton the person most likely to want to kill President Obama? I don't see how manking her the VP provides Obama with any kind of insurance.

[SugarFree]

I didn't say it was a start move.

[SugarFree]

*smart* stupid fingers

[Slut Bunwalla]

Yeah, I'd say it pretty much guarantees that some sort of terrible accident or event will befall Obama in his second term.

[Brett L]

See also: Cheney, Gore, Quayle

[Dumpster Baby]

Times Square would-be bomber gets life in prison.

Seems a little harsh. Isn't Faisal Shahzad just a misunderstood anarchist? He refused to let The State push him around. And nobody was hurt in his little performance art. They should have given him a ticket for an unlawful, unlicensed pyrotechnical display and 100 hours of community service.

[Modest Proposal]

Tickets are sold to raise money for charity. Cheering ticket-holders fill stadium. Perp, wearing suicide vest, is escorted to and staked in middle of stadium. Authorities remotely arm vest.

[Xenocles]

No pressure.

[Marshall Gill]

+1

[Almanian]

I thought he was a misunderstood middle-aged Wonderbread?-and-mayonnaise-sammich Regular 'Murcan?

Wait, no...that was the imaginary initial suspect. My bad.

[Brett L]

No, the imaginary suspect was a racist teabagger who hates Obama and eats salt on everything, perhaps even a smoker according to Nurse Bloomburg.

[Rich]

Dumpster Baby, if *only* Shahzad had show just a *little* remorse ....

[Dumpster Baby]

Show remorse to The Man who's keeping him down and undermining his dreams of an anarcho-libertarian-Muslim utopia? Pshaw!

[Warty]

A previous work depicted Pope John Paul II struck by a meteorite

Pick all the cotton you like

[Randy Marsh]

The Kenny Powers exhibit.

[hmm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqBMEmpPKrw

Olberdoodle WTFish witch/clown interview?

Then again it looked like most of his interviews.

[robc]

All the "light drinking during pregnancy" studies come out of England.

I think an American researcher would get sued and/or lose his job if he published that study.

[Brett L]

MADD and other new temperance movements would certainly get the researcher fired, and perhaps ridden out of town on a rail.

[Brett L]

not new temperance, new prohibitionist

[SugarFree]

Temperance movements inevitably lead to prohibition when the advocates of temperance realize that nagging people not to drink only makes them drink more.

[Brett L]

I agree, but wanted to clarify their aims.

[Fluffy]

If the negotiations in Afghanistan succeed, I'm sure the Republicans will claim that it's a "traitorous betrayal" by the Obama administration, and a "humiliating surrender" because peace came about without every last Taliban fighter being hunted down and killed.

Even though bribing and co-opting insurgents instead of fighting them is what salvaged the Iraq War.

Because, you know, that was done quietly, and wasn't called "negotiation" in front of the press. You can hire and bribe people who killed Americans all you want, and still be a Super Military GOP Hero, as long as you never openly say the word "negotiation". It's saying the word that makes you a French Weakling, and not the act itself.

[John]

That is the rub. Are we actually co-opting them or just surrendering? I don't know and neither do you. Sure the GOP will try to make political points by spinning it their way. That is what politicians do. The Dems would do the same thing.

But that doesn't change what is really going on. Just because you call it a "negotiation" doesn't make it a good idea. If the settlement results in our going home and Afghanistan no longer harboring terrorists who attack us, then you are right, it would be a victory. If it results in what amounts to a surrender and Afghanistan goes back into the terrorist harboring business as soon as we leave, then it is a disaster. Which it really is or will be, time will tell.

[robc]

If we had handled Afghanistan right to begin with, what to do in this case would be obvious - we should hae invaded, knocked the Taliban out of power and left. With a warning: If you put the Taliban back in power, we come back and knock them out again.

But, instead of doing that we futzed around in Iraq and never left and now there is no right answer. The right answer is to do the right thing the first time around.

[Warty]

That would have been the right response, but there was no way Bush would have ever done an old-fashioned punitive expedition.

[robc]

Dont blame me, I didnt vote for him.

[Warty]

I did once. I'm so ashamed. It's Michael Badnarik's fault for being a lunatic.

[Xenocles]

I did too, in 2004. I don't even know why; I was voting a MA ballot then so it's not like I can say I was voting against Kerry. I think I was caught up in the national security hysteria back then and bought in to the illusion of superior Bush performance.

[robc]

What is wrong with voting for a lunatic? Seems way more qualified than what we have been electing.

And yes, I cast my vote for Badnarik with pride.

[Warty]

I know, I should have voted for the lunatic. I'm so ashamed.

[Mike M.]

The problem isn't even Afghanistan any more, it's Pakistan. Turning the Afghans against the Taliban permanently doesn't even do us any good if they have a new permanent base of operations in a remote uncontrolled area outside their country.

[John]

Very true. And the problem isn't going away. Basically we will be hunting and killing these people for the foreseeable future. They are not quitting and they are not going away.

[Brett L]

Eh. I don't think the world would tolerate going full Roman.

[robc]

Fuck the world.

[Warty]

Fuck the World

[x,y]

Sure the GOP will try to make political points by spinning it their way. That is what politicians do. The Dems would do the same thing.

Straight from the John Playbook. When Team Red does it, "Well, that's just what politicians do." When Team Blue does it, "These guys are cravin!"

[John]

When both sides play politics dickweed, it is a bit difficult to claim one is better than the other isn't it? And further read the fucking post you moron. Regardless of how it is spun, that doesn't change what is really happening. If you are going to post on here at least make an effort and try to understand what is being discussed. And if you are too stupid to do that, just read along and pretend.

[Ragin Cajun]

Welcome to the Libertarian Isle.

[Warty]

It's uncomfortably close to the conservative peninsula, I think.

[robc]

So, is reason.com one of the 4 sections?

And what are the others?

Note: Didnt click on the link, hopefully its what I think it is.

[Ragin Cajun]

Since the Isle is shaped like a Nolan Chart, we can imagine where reason.com belongs. I imagine the other edges of the island are where the refugees land.

[Warty]

Puppy!

[SugarFree]

I hate being reminded I have a soul, you bastard.

[Mr. FIFY]

Speaking of Biden, a disturbing story I posted on another thread:

http://www.news-leader.com/art.....pringfield

Lowdown: The press is not allowed to take pictures of Biden during his visit. Like he's important or something.

[P Brooks]

The right answer is to do the right thing the first time around.

As a great man told me (on multiple occasions): "Don't be sorry. Be right."

[JW]

"If you can't do something smart, do something right."

[Mosquevite Sandwich]

re: O to replace Biden with Hillary for 2012.

Of course he is. Then Hillary can slide right in when O leaves. Then, hopefully Michelle will be ready to rule over the green economy. Awesome.

[J sub D]

Cell phones could help bring justice to Afghanistan.

Nothing is going to bring anything I recognize as justice to Afghanistan.

The nation(?) is a lost cause.

[Mongo]

It's strange that it's even exists as a country. Nuthin' but a collection of warlords and tribal areas.

[JD]

Just like Somalia, a libertarian paradise according to the Left.

[hmm]

Did Reason really just pull the welcome wagon to MSNBC viewers that Gillespie posted? Dare I guess why they pulled the article?

[JD]

Apparently they did pull it. It was there before I went to a meeting but when I clicked on the unrefreshed link I get a 404 error.

[hmm]

Now to figure out why they pulled it and ridicule them relentlessly for it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Tune me in at 9 Eastern, biotches!

[?????]

thank u

[????? ??????]

Thanks