Obamacare

How About We Just Go Ahead and Assume You Didn't Like Your Health Care Plan?

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The Wall Street Journal reports on the latest company to announce health benefit changes in response to the new health care law:

3M Co. confirmed it would eventually stop offering its health-insurance plan to retirees, citing the federal health overhaul as a factor.

The changes won't start to phase in until 2013. But they show how companies are beginning to respond to the new law, which should make it easier for people in their 50s and early-60s to find affordable policies on their own. While thousands of employers are tapping new funds from the law to keep retiree plans, 3M illustrates that others may not opt to retain such plans over the next few years.

The key point to remember when reading stories like these isn't that benefit changes are necessarily good or bad. Instead, it's that, despite the Obama administration's repeated promises to the contrary, many people and employers will not, in fact, be able to stick with their current health care plans and arrangements. The folks in the White House had to sell the public—a large majority of whom were actually pretty happy with their existing health insurance—on the virtues of their plan while promising that it wouldn't upset existing arrangements that people liked. That was obvious nonsense before the law passed, and now we're seeing regular evidence that yes, massive policy changes have consequences, many of them unintended.

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  1. While thousands of employers are tapping new funds from the law taxpayers to keep retiree plans,

    Better, no?

    we’re seeing regular evidence that yes, massive policy changes have consequences, many of them unintended.

    Foreseeable consequences are not unintended.

    1. The consequences were far more than merely “foreseeable.” They are, by express design, the first steps toward single-payer.

      1. This!

        I don’t know why people keep pretending that they didn’t hear what they heard. Obama and the Democratic Party leadership clearly stated that they were committed to a single payer system and they would put this plan in place as a first step. Obama is on tape saying that his plan was to put something in place that would lead to single payer in about 2017.

        The only disagreement in the Democrat caucus was whether to go directly to single payer now or to use an incremental approach to reach single payer. Incremental won out. Why anyone would act surprised when the law they passed works toward that goal is beyond me.

        Not entirely on point, but as close as 30 seconds of google would allow – here’s a video that shows them in their own words talking about using incremental approaches to reach single payer over time.

    2. I don’t know. I kinda enjoy the magical thinking of anyone who would write “tapping new funds from the law”.

      Because laws are obedient genies, you know. Just free them from their bottles, mouth the right incantations, and bring some big buckets to collect all the free candy!

      1. Wait, that doesn’t mean having sex with piles of money?

    3. I’ve met plenty of people who have been utterly incapable of even conceptualizing possible reactions to the health care bill…

      It’s shocking to me every time I encounter it, but far too many people exist out there who never seem to grasp that a giant change in policy will not exist in a vacuum. But honestly – look around – that type of thinking is basically the underpinning of a lot of legislation for decades… It’s the basis for anyone who thinks that you can just “pass a law” and problems will be solved. Human behavior is linear and won’t change at all so the policy will only “help”, no so-called unintended consequences to concern yourself with!

  2. This. Also, the standards for grandfathered plans are so stringent you can safely assume they were designed to not be met.

  3. 3M Co. confirmed it would eventually stop offering its health-insurance plan to retirees, citing the federal health overhaul as a factor.

    Now the Obaminions are going to pay them a visit. They’re not supposed to say that!

    1. No problemo. It’s not because of the costs of the mandate. We just don’t like Kathleen Sebelius.

  4. I don’t think they should be allowed say why they are changing coverage. It doesn’t reflect well on the Obama administration, so they should just make up another reason, like greed or Republicans.

    1. Market failures is my favorite.

  5. “That was obvious nonsense before the law passed, and now we’re seeing regular evidence that yes, massive policy changes have consequences, many of them unintended.”

    Why do people keep claiming the consequences are “unintended?”

    1. What should we call results opposite STATED intentions?

      Oh yeah, FRAUD!

      1. You know a President brazenly lying … reminds me of something…like a smelly cigar, a cum-stained blue dress and a hearing…or a war over no “weapons of mass destruction”. Sometimes, I think the Mussolini’s Italians had a better system to deal with this brand of bullshit.

    2. Well, because we’re being charitable (?) and assuming that many of the Democrats whose votes were needed to pass this were stupid instead of calculating and evil.

  6. “Belmont Woman Charged for Flying Feces Facial”

    http://www.wickedlocal.com/bel…..-dog-feces

    1. Well, shit.

      1. You can get your yearly quota of bad puns in about 5 minutes on the comments over there.

  7. And the insurance market was doing such a bang-up job providing coverage and controlling costs, too! God damn you, libruls.

    1. Try harder. You’ve become redundant in a single afternoon.

      1. You mean like repeating “try harder” over and over again? Because that’s clever.

        1. Try harder?

          1. Awwww, look at how the widdle sci-fi nerd cwies when someone confronts him with a market failure.

            Don’t cwy, widdle baby. Ron Paul will make it all better.

            1. Try…harder?

              1. That’s what I said.
                If he can’t fuck me, how’s he ever going to get it up for his sister?

            2. BTW, Libertardian is the made up of the words Libertarian and retard.

              You know what a retard is right? It’s a mentally retarded person and they are grand fun to make fun of because they are slow in the head.

              1. In fact, most retards don’t even realize you’re mocking them. Grand fun!

                1. Is Libertardian making fun of me? I didn’t realize.

              2. I checked the anagrams for liberal. The best are “Braille” and “bear ill.”

                1. There’s also “bare ill,” but I think that sounds like something SugrFreesque rather than being apropos for a political discussion.

              3. So, wait, you combined Liber, which stands for libertarian, and tard, which represents retard, and then, stop me if I’m going wrong here, you added ian, to represent that the word is a noun? Is that right? Pure genius.

                1. The list for “libertarian” is quite long. Maybe “alibi errant” would work for our opponents?

                  1. Or errant alibi. That scans better.

                2. Wait, but how do we know that “liber” doesn’t stand for “liberal”, which most people these days refer to as “progressive”?

              4. A portmanteau, you mean?

                1. Which is a word formed from blending two or more words into a new word. We get this word from combining portal, manatee and plateau…portmanteau

            3. Its not a market failure when people can’t afford to buy things.

            4. Obamacare won’t fix your speech impediment, no matter how many times you vote for him.

            5. There’s no such thing as a market failure. It simply does not exist.

            6. Blaiming the ‘market’ for increasing costs in insurance premiums vis ridiculous amounts of retarded legislation is like blaiming your cute lips and Dora the Explorer training panties for your Dad’s fondness of shoving his genitals in your orifices.

        2. (fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap)

          1. Have I discussed at length with my friends here at Reason how much I love balls in my mouth?

            1. You try…harder? Try?

              1. Derp Hard 2: Derp Harder

              2. Sorry, that appears to be hizzer best.

          2. “fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap”

            Max? Is that you?

    2. Good thing libertardians are so stoopid they don’t realize that the gummint has been futzing with healthcare more and more for decades – they might make a correlation with rising costs!!

    3. Re: Libertarian,

      And the insurance market was doing such a bang-up job providing coverage and controlling costs, too!

      Yes, they were.

      1. Wow. An outright rejection of reality.
        At least you’re straightforward about it.

        1. Re: Libertardian,

          Wow. An outright rejection of reality.

          Am I talking to a child? Because I don’t want to waste my time here.

          Insurance companies have been keeping costs down by negotiating prices with suppliers; as simple as that. What makes healthcare costs go up each year is not insurance companies, but the artificial restrictions of supply created by licensing laws.

          1. As well as artificial increases in demand for services, created by state mandates requiring insurance policies to cover things that are best paid for out of pocket.

            1. Like Libertardian’s lobotomy?

  8. My taxes are going up on January 1, 2011. My healthcare insurance at work is going up January 1, 2011 and my paycheck will be less come January 1, 2011, so I’ll have less money for me and my middle-class family.

    Thanks, Obama!

    1. Actually, they’re not – and we’re paying less in taxes as a nation than we have for decades. But don’t let the truth get in the way of your preconceived notions.

      Quick, post a recipe instead of refuting that!

      1. No, we’re not. The number of loopholes available are far fewer, the IRS is much more prone to audit, and, of course, when we aren’t taxing you today, we’re taxing you tomorrow with deficit spending.

        I say nothing about the increase in taxes at the state and local levels.

        1. We want tax loopholes, now? This is a good thing?
          1% of returns are audited. Calm down.
          And I prefer tax-and-spend to tax-cut-and-spend, don’t you?

          1. My point is that taxation isn’t lower today. That’s an optical illusion.

            And I prefer spending cuts and tax cuts.

          2. You try…harder? Harder you try?

            1. God, I need cock so much right now.

        2. Of my 5% raise that I received this year, 33% was taxed away, right off the top.

          1. Progressive taxation. It’s been going on since Roman times. Sucks, I know.

            1. Try? Harder? You try?

              1. Oh, Rand Paul…Rand Paul, please jizz in my face…

            2. Sucks, I know

              No, apparently you don’t.

      2. Jesus mother fucking christ you moronic fuck. I just got a goddam letter from my fucking employer saying that as of January 1, 2011 the cost of my health insurance is going up. Just how fucking stoopid are you that you would assert that you know the financial relationship between everyone and their employer vis-a-vis benefit costs?

        What a piece of cat shit. Please go fap, fap, fap with the rest of the kids who like you, are just discovering their genitals.

        1. That’s not a tax, dipshit. That’s your insurer raising your costs. Take it up with them instead of blaming the darkie in the White House.

          And you think I’M the stupid one? Jesus.

          1. So when the Bush tax cuts expire on January 1, 2011 that means that taxes are not going up? Please show your work.

            1. I will on January 2nd if/when the tax cuts are allowed to expire. If I made that assumption now, I’d be some kind of fucking idiot.

              1. Are you a parody? You prefer that one assume that Congress will pass a law, one that hasn’t even be drafted yet?

                1. This one’s kind of important. If the Democrats had any balls, they would’ve pushed it through before the elections.

                  1. This is the same Congress that let the estate tax expire last year. They’re kinda prone to gridlock.

              2. If I made that assumption now, I’d be…

                You can’t “would be” what you already are, retard.

          2. He wrote:
            “[My taxes and ]My healthcare insurance at work is going up January 1, 2011 …”
            You wrote:
            “Actually, they’re not.”
            In fact, his insurance is going up. So you’re the dipshit here.

      3. Re: Libertadian,

        Actually, they’re not – and we’re paying less in taxes as a nation than we have for decades.

        Nations don’t pay taxes. Only individuals pay taxes.

        1. Yeah, that’s not what I said.
          Reading comprehension. Give it a try.

          1. Re: Libertardian,

            Yeah, that’s not what I said.

            Yes, you did: “we’re paying less in taxes as a nation than we have for decades.”

            Proper grammar. Give it a try.

            1. +1

              You’ve obviously met the new resident troll. It’s amazing how this one can mentally redact, on the fly, his own stupidity. Perhaps he has early onset Alzheimer’s?

              Poor kid.

          2. —“Reading comprehension. Give it a try.”—

            I am assuming that dipshit will grow tired of his fun very soon. At least Tony, Chad, et al, try to make their points and don’t just get off on the fact that they can talk dirty around the grown-ups.

      4. Libertardian|10.5.10 @ 5:28PM|#
        “Actually, they’re not – and we’re paying less in taxes as a nation than we have for decades. But don’t let the truth get in the way of your preconceived notions.”
        Lie.

      5. I’m normally restrained but I have to say, “Fuck you for Obama”

        Obama “fixes” the credit market, the cost of my credit goes thru the roof and my ability to get new credit vanishes.

        Obama “fixes” healthcare and my health insurance is going up 35% this year.

        I’m struggling to stay above water. My only hope is that the Bush tax cuts are extended. That $200 per month could be the make/break point for me.

        But your asshole is “fixing” things. Well, stop “fixing” things.

        … Hobbit

  9. Attention everyone in the United States:

    You may pick one of these two options because there are no others:

    1) the consequences were unintended, therefore this administration is one of the most idiotic to ever govern this country

    2) the consequences are intended.

    1. Well, the joke is on you, because I choose both options.

      1. We too!

      2. I suppose that works too. Of course, most people won’t want to choose even one option.

  10. We have always welcomed vigorous debate here. Many of us love to give our points of view on issues such as health care. I, for one, look forward to a discussion with someone who may not agree with me but presents his argument coherently.

    Now, having said that, where the fuck did this guy come from? What has happened to us that we can’t even attract a marginally intelligent troll anymore?

    1. Pro Libertate above is the first person here to actually address a point that I made. Everyone else hurled insults – so ask yourself why everyone here is so threatened by someone breaking the groupthink.

      1. It ain’t for nothing that I’ve won Commenter of the Year for the past three years.

        1. There was talk of bribes in 2008. Some of us have not forgotten.

          And say, who is this shit facktory who is making fun of my autistic nephew by incorporating “tard” in his name? What an insensative prig.

          Oh, and insensative prig, I can assure you that despite having great tax and estate attorneys, unless something is done, my taxes will be going up if the tax cuts are not extended. Capital gains may not be in your vocabulary, but they are in mine.

          1. Autistic children are not “retarded”, so I’d say the “insensative” prig is you.

            Considering the vast success the Libertarian Party has had at the ballot box, it’s much more likely they’re actually retarded.

            1. I’m sucking amazing amounts of cock right now.

          2. Incidentally, capital gains taxes were cut (like most taxes) in the Bush era, so at worst, you’d have to go back to Clinton-era taxation on capital gains — you remember, when the economy was chugging along and we lowered the debt.

            Stop whining.

            1. Try? You try? Harder?

              1. So can Sci-Fi Nerd here actually make cogent arguments, or does he just repeat everything over and over again like a 3-year-old?

                1. Harder? You try?

            2. Libertardian|10.5.10 @ 6:02PM|#
              “you’d have to go back to Clinton-era … when the economy was chugging along and we lowered the debt.”

              Yep, impeaching a president, bitch-slapping his wife’s healthcare boondoggle and making sure the executive and legislative branches are controlled by different parties pays real dividends.
              Got any hot ideas on bitch-slapping Pelosi’s boondoggle? And how about an impeachment offense? Plain, old incompetence doesn’t quite do it.

              1. “you’d have to go back to Clinton-era … when the economy was chugging along and we lowered the debt.”

                The economy had already started chugging before Clinton ever took office – his policies had nothing to do with it.

                His butt just happned to be parked in the oval office during the economic expansion cycle. And it ended before he left office in his second term.

            3. “…when the economy was chugging along and we lowered the debt.”

              Clinton-era? When did that happen during his administration?

            4. Because the Republican Congress (you know, the branch that spends money) wouldn’t give him HillaryCare, etc.

              In 2006, the deficits started rising again. What happened then? Something about Nancy Pelosi….

              Copperheads cause deficits.

          3. Bribes? Never! I won it through skill and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.

            1. “I won it through skill and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope Episiarch.”

              He brings out the worst in you, PL. Have you noticed that?

              1. The worst in me? In what way?

                1. I don’t think you can expect anonypussy to make much sense, ProL. Shit, the new troll makes more sense.

                  1. Maybe he doesn’t like my position on pizza?

                    1. Speaking of pizza, a new newspaper-with-sauce place opened up here in Tampa. It doesn’t suck as much as you’d think!

                      For Tampa-based commenters, I recommend it (Bruno’s) if you can tolerate that New York crap.

      2. I’ve read all of the comments a few times and I still can’t find one where you make a point.

        I’ll ask you this: If costs a spiraling out of control and we can’t afford the doctors, hospitals, insurance, and the medicine, how are we supposed to afford the doctors, hospitals, insurance, medicine AND the gov’t bureaucracy to administer it all?

        1. Health care reform was written with the cooperation of the insurance and drug companies (just like CAFE standards were increased with the cooperation of the auto industry), so you’ll have to ask them.

          If you could get beyond your seething hatred of Democrats, you’d see that President Obama has been EXTREMELY pro-business…especially considering he bailed out entire industries and managed to get most of the money back.

          1. Don’t assume so much about me. It won’t be as embarrassing when you realize you’re wrong.

            Obama is pro-Obama and that’s it. Bottom line.

            1. Stunning retort.
              You really put me in my place there.

              1. Libertard… were you spoofing Epi and forgot to change your handle back?

                1. No, I just suck major donkey balls, that’s all.

          2. Health care reform was written with the cooperation of the insurance and drug companies …

            Kind of like the “cooperation” the mafia gets from the small shop keeper. Wouldn’t want anything to happen to that nice business you have there would ya?

            1. Considering how much bribe money corporations throw at Washington, I think you’ve got that scenario reversed.

              1. Considering how much more money Washington has to throw around I don’t think you have a clue. The ability to make laws that could put them out of business is powerful incentive for corporations to throw lots of money at Washington. It is a pay to play system not unlike a mafia protection racquet.

              2. Libertardian|10.5.10 @ 6:19PM|#
                “Considering how much bribe money corporations throw at Washington, I think you’ve got that scenario reversed.”

                How many times has this brain-dead trope been floated?
                Libertardian, are you ignorant of ‘rent seeking’? Is your ignorance such that you fantasize the libertarians support ‘rent seeking’?
                Can you somehow quantify your ignorance?

              3. I drool over nuts. Let me suck yours.

          3. If you could get beyond your incredible idiocy and misunderstanding of libertarians, you’d realize that “BUT THE BIG COMPANIES WROTE THIS LAW” doesn’t actually appeal to us. Only to liberals, apparently.

            Pro-market, not pro-businesses writing in special favors.

            1. The government should be market-neutral.

              1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one!

          4. Being pro-big business for a selected few businesses is not the same as being pro-business.

          5. Libertardian|10.5.10 @ 5:54PM|#
            “If you could get beyond your seething hatred of Democrats, you’d see that President Obama has been EXTREMELY pro-business…especially considering he bailed out entire industries and managed to get most of the money back.”
            It takes bias in the extreme to make a comment ignorant.

          6. Libertardian|10.5.10 @ 5:54PM|#
            “Health care reform was written with the cooperation of the insurance and drug companies (just like CAFE standards were increased with the cooperation of the auto industry), so you’ll have to ask them.”
            Again, it takes bias in the extreme to make such an ignorant comment.
            Please cite “cooperation” or admit you’re an ignoramus.
            “Cooperation” at the end of a gun *isn’t* cooperation, but then brain-deads don’t really see the distinction.

            1. Paying taxes is “voluntary”, dude. Haven’t you heard that before?

              1. Yes, I have.
                Did you hear the one about the Priest, the Minister and the Rabbi? Well, they….

                1. Walk into a bar and the bartender says something?

        2. I’ll ask you this: If costs a spiraling out of control and we can’t afford the doctors, hospitals, insurance, and the medicine, how are we supposed to afford the doctors, hospitals, insurance, medicine AND the gov’t bureaucracy to administer it all?

          Price controls.

          I am sure you have heard of them.

          1. Price and cost are not the same thing.

  11. You are all racists! You don’t even realize how much better off you would be if you were more like me. I don’t even wipe the shit off Obama’s dick before he rams it down my throat. God I’m so hard right now!

    1. That was me, everybody – sorry. I have such an incredibly small penis that I have to pose as other posters instead of having something intelligent to say myself.

      I think it’s because of all those children I’ve molested. I’m really sorry.

      1. How did he find out my penis is less than average? That’s freaky!

        1. Better close your drapes, Pip, the dude seems more than a little deranged.

          1. no shit.
            And make sure the door’s locked.

            1. Don’t listen to these losers! They’re lying! I really do like sucking shit-stained donkey cock!

  12. Why do people keep claiming the consequences are “unintended?”

    Because while those who Do Policy may occasionally miscalculate, because that just can’t be helped!, they’re morally perfect?or at least better than y’all hataz, or they wouldn’t be runnin’ shit while you triflin’, would they?

    It’s a libertarian axiom.

    1. be runnin’ shit

      I speak Jive. He said “they are diarrhea.”

  13. The White House had to sell the public?a large majority of whom were actually pretty happy with their existing health insurance?on the virtues of their plan while promising that it wouldn’t upset existing arrangements that people liked.

    Actually, Whiskey Hotel was quite UNsuccessful in selling that point, since around 60% of polled people hated the law before it was passed. Congress simply passed the law anyway – so much for The Will Of The People . . .

    1. “Whiskey Hotel”

      Nice, OM, nice.

  14. If there’s one thing I like about sites with mandatory commenter registration it’s handle consistency. Sheesh…

    1. It’s only a real problem when you actually have subtle trolls, instead of the idiot who’s posting now.

    2. I’d think–I’d hope–that you’d be able to tell when it’s really me and when new troll is spoofing me, dude.

      1. … and you are? ? ?

    3. Anyone else feel like they’re trapped in a Bunuel movie reading these comments? The Phantom of Liberty perhaps?

  15. It is time to begin impeachment proceedings against the President, and any member of Congress who voted for this. The charge is willful violation of their oath to uphold the Constitution!

    ENOUGH!

    1. Hate to break it to you, but the gubermint has gotten away with worse than this.

  16. Air Max 92 La Nike Air Max 92 Retro a finalement ?t? lib?r?s apr?s des mois d’attente. Les rendements coureur dans son livre blanc distingue / Tour jaune / rouge / noir colorway et est renforc?e visuellement par des accents calcul?s de treillis et en su?de. Le style est maintenant disponible chez Proper.


  17. a large majority of whom were actually pretty happy with their existing health insurance

    I must say that this is one of the biggest misrepresentation in the entire healthcare controversy.

    You can’t just ask everyone (majority that have no idea what their healthcare actually covers or would be helpful in the event of a claim) if they ‘like their current healthcare plan’.

    You have to ask the people that actually use it.

    1. You’re probably entirely right about that, Alice… But I’ve used my health insurance and it covered exactly what I expected it to, and it was pretty much totally fine.

      Of course, I read my contract before I signed it and I paid attention to what my policy covers before I ever went to a doctor.

      Regardless, the health care bill was massively unpopular, and I think that should tell you something. Additionally, and more importantly in the real sense, it was a tremendously bad idea.

      1. “Of course, I read my contract before I signed it and I paid attention to what my policy covers before I ever went to a doctor.”
        Which most people don’t do. They just assume that if they have health insurance, all their healthcare is free or there’s a small co-payment.

    2. Now, since I get my health care straight from drinking Dear Leader’s miraculous semen by the bucketful (good for curing AIDS and childhood leukemia, among other things), I’ll never have to worry about health care because I’ll never need it!

      Dear Leader will provide!

      1. That’s obviously not my reply.

        What ‘Dear Leader’ came up with was the result of being watered down. His intention was to have a public option. However, he went about it the wrong way.

        Anyway, since we’ve last spoke Sean, my opinion on healthcare has drastically changed. I feel that ALL third party payor scenarios DON’T work and are the root cause of the inflating costs. Since the consumer (in this case, the patient) can care less what the service costs after handing over a piece of plastic to the provider, the provider goes ahead and bills whatever they feel like. That’s where you get the $3,800 for five stitches and the $1,000 tylenol.

        However, Sean, I doubt you’ve been in the situation where you’ve had the run-around from the insurance company once you or a loved one has developed an expensive illness.

        I feel that there should be a public option. That is, MAYO clinics that ONLY the elderly, the disabled, and poor (people who’s healthcare is paid for by the taxpayer) can attend.

        We should outlaw healthcare insurance and just let people pay for their own costs. Once you do this, the tylenol will NOT cost $1,000 if people actually have to pay for it.

        1. Was that a troll answer, too?

        2. Alice, just for reference, I’ve had the runaround from insurance companies related to a degenerative leg condition. Per the contract, it wasn’t covered, because it was a pre-existing condition I knew about and had attempted to get it dealt with but was finding every single doctor and facility lacking. As it stands, treatment is expensive and not really beneficial. It is actually cheaper and easier for me just to lose the leg. The insurance does cover prosthetics. In the end, I don’t think it’s fair for you and other taxpayers to pay for drugs that will cost $4000 a month and make me puke and piss blood. Sad, but I don’t blame companies or the industry. Shit happens and it could be worse. It could have been Lou Gehrig’s disease. I at least have an excuse never to take up jogging again.

        3. So true – the disconnect in the market brought about by 3rd party payer leads directly to spiraling healthcare costs.

          However, Obama’s intention to get a public option was only as an interim step toward a single payer system. Therefore his current plan is still on point for getting to single payer, it is just a longer and messier road from here.

        4. Is a double bypass suddenly going to cost 10 bucks? Even under perfect competition, a serious illness like cancer or a stroke is going to cost some serious money. Maybe not the hundreds of thousands it costs now, but probably still in the tens of thousands. For most people, the only way to pay for that is through insurance.

        5. That is, MAYO clinics that ONLY the elderly, the disabled, and poor (people who’s healthcare is paid for by the taxpayer) can attend.

          Please to define for me “elderly.” 50 years old? 60? 62? 75? Once you have picked an arbitrary number, explain why.

          Please to define “disabled”? Does it include someone who is just depressed? Why or why not?

          Define “poor”. What income level? Why?

          Good luck!

    3. Re: Alice Bowie,

      You can’t just ask everyone (majority that have no idea what their healthcare actually covers or would be helpful in the event of a claim) if they ‘like their current healthcare plan’.

      I have used it, many times. I prefer a market solution (where doctors compete with each other the same way building contractors or car maintenance shops do), but compared to nothing, I LIKE my coverage.

      I DON’T like Obamacare, I DON’T like the idea that some tax-fed bureaucrat knows what’s better for me than ME.

  18. “The key point to remember when reading stories like these isn’t that benefit changes are necessarily good or bad.”

    No, the key point to remember is that benefit changes imposed by government force are *always* bad.

    1. Actually, this specific change (fewer people getting health insurance through work, and instead getting it on an individual basis) is probably positive. It will lead to people having more choice over which plan is right for them and force insurance companies to cater to consumers instead of companies.

      1. While I am totally in favor of separating medical insurance from the workplace, I can’t see it going anywhere until premiums paid by individuals receive the same tax treatment as those paid by companies on behalf of their employees.

        Although my preference is toward lower tax rates and fewer brackets (preferably one) with no (or, at least, fewer) deductions for personal outlays, my instict tells me that the politically feasible path is to make them both deductible.

        1. That’s definitely something that should be done. Obamacare doesn’t do that, but it adds in a couple counter-incentives. First, it provides subsidies to some people to buy individual policies. Second, it incentivizes some employers (particularly ones with low wage work forces) to drop employer coverage and let the employees go on the exchanges or medicaid.

          1. That’s why I would prefer to see all premiums paid with after tax dollars with coincident reduction in tax rates.

  19. Before Obama’s health-care plan many has no health insurance and after Obama’s plan, many more plan has either stopped for they can’t afford the new health insurance policy or exchanged to a cheaper policy and benefit. So Obama has only worsen the situation! Maybe he also need some health medication.
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  20. “President Obama has been EXTREMELY pro-business”

    What a fuckin’ laugh. You’re ignoring his endgame for business, ‘Tard.

  21. Actually, everyone’s income tax rates are rising on Jan. 1, 2010. Speaker Pelosi decided the House would not vote on the sunsetting tax rate cuts from 2003. This doesn’t affect just “the wealthy” – it’s all income brackets.

    You are correct in saying we are paying less in taxes now than 2 years ago. Unfortunately, the reason is because about 10 million fewer people have incomes to tax.

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