The Execrable Alan Grayson

Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress? Up against some pretty impressive competition, Grayson, who has likened fans of Glenn Beck to Klansmen and compared the state of American health care to the Holocaust, distinguished himself last week with the release of two campaign ads that present an impressive case for his topping the loathsome tables. The first ad informs viewers that Grayson's opponent, Republican Daniel Webster, is a draft dodger that "doesn't love his country." Prepare to be revolted:

It is no surprise that MSNBC host Ed Schultz, who frequently accuses his ideological opponents of lacking patriotism, has praised the oafish Grayson for his "honesty." Indeed, while appearing on the Ed Show, Rep. Grayson claimed that he was maligned by those on the right for "just telling the truth."

The indefatigable non-partisans at Factcheck.org beg to differ. Analyzing the content of Grayson's draft-dodger attack ad, Factcheck said it's "one of the nastiest [ads] we have seen so far this year, and it's false."

But the ad's charge is disproved by the very documents that the Grayson campaign provides to support their claim. A Grayson spokesman provided copies of Selective Service documents that were obtained under a public records request in June. They show that far from refusing to serve his country, Webster reported for a military examination as soon as he graduated from college, only to be disqualified on medical grounds.

Much more detail here.

In a follow-up ad, Grayson compares Webster to a member of the Taliban. Yeah, those are the bearded guys who once executed burqa-obscured women in Kabul soccer stadiums. His opponent is pretty much exactly like those people. It seems to be a rather popular comparison amongst Democrats these days.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Isn't Grayson one of the "economists" who argued the stimulus was a good idea?

[Kevin Schmidt]

Any reputable economist would make the same argument. Keynesian fiscal stimulus does indeed work. Ask any Econ 101 student.

[Kelley]

Not necessarily. Keynesian economists would argue its merits. I've had three university economics courses, and Keynesian economics got only a passing mention as an outdated philosophy in one class, macroeconomics. Only public sector economists assert the effectiveness of Keynesian principles (government bureaucrats tend to appoint the economists who believe in government-directed economic solutions). There are far more private-sector economists, and their perspective is different. And you'll have to explain how a fiscal stimulus is going to work when the multiplier of a stimulus dollar is less than one.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I was an Econ 101 student. Econ 101 student thinking should not be anywhere near $787 billion of taxpayer money.

[capitol l]

Yeah, you would of spent it all on hookers and blow telling everybody that you were out "stimulating" the economy.

[mr simple]

I prefer the phrase " maximizing my utility."

[Lord Ballsac]

I prefer "getting high as well as sucked off."

[JoshINHB]

you would of spent it all on hookers and blow

That would have been better for the economy than the way the obamanauts spent it.

[Ted S.]

Put Wicked Eliot Spitzer in charge of the stimulus?

[Pablo D]

Webster in context:

"I have verses for my wife. Don't pick the ones that say, 'She should submit to me.' That's in the Bible, but pick the ones that you're supposed to do. So instead, 'Love your wife even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.'"

Grayson is a tool who took the quote of context deliberately. How appropriate that this execrable character have an opponent named Daniel Webster.

[Fiscal Meth]

Grayson is pretty twisted.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"Communist government does work! Ask any Poli Sci 101 student!"

[Rrabbit]

I would not ask an econ 101 student anything. I know they don't know anything.

[Trespassers W]

Then again, ask any other reputable economist.

[Smack]

Really? Any econ 101 student? The crux of Keynesian wealth transfer is that the government should be willing to transfer capital from productive sectors of an economy into other sectors that are flagging but hold a special utility to the public (i.e. represent quasi-public goods, for lack of a better term) to protect the overall health of the economy writ large. This is due to the nature of public goods having little marketable value but having a large coupling value when paired with other sectors...think roads that help retailers get goods to market, etc. This is precisely what TARP was originally supposed to protect (banks, financial liquidity, etc.). Unfortunately, it was poorly administered in a rush to stave off what we are told would have been a complete financial meltdown.

Unfortunately, this is NOT the case with the Obama stimulus which was designed for the sole purpose of providing government backed capital to private industries with little public utility aside from the fact that they employed people. This mis-reading of Keynes is playing itself out: businesses hording capital because they are scared sh**less of the impending taxes and inflation as a result of the government's profligacy AND the government doubling down on stupid with Obamacare and massive new regulations of the financial sector (giving the government more power to arbitrarily pick winners and losers). The tragic consequence of all this profligacy is that businesses are responding to the sudden loss of stability in politics and the law as opposed to the market by choosing to opt out for the time being.

The true value of the hidden hand of stability in law and politics is finally unmasked.

[MattXIV]

Anybody who actually paid attention knows that the Keynesian models rely on the assumption of perfect price stickiness. If you assume perfect price flexibility, Keynesian stimulus doesn't work at all, since the short run AS curve just shifts back to intersect the AD curve at the same output but a higher price level.

In real life, partial price flexibility exists, and the degree of it varies immensely across different sectors - stocks are almost perfectly flexibile, wages have lots of upward flexibility but limited downward flexibility, the flexibility of retail goods is determined by the ease of updating marketing materials, etc. Futhermore, the cost of repricing tends to be fixed, while the benefits of adjusting prices is a function of the peturbation. For example, the cost of printing up new price tags is fixed, but the cost of not repricing the same inventory of hammers from $5 to $5.10 is much less than the cost of not repricing them from $5 to $6. The effect of this is that the more radical the intervention (ie the bigger intended shift in AD), the more likely the assumption is to break down, so the more rapidly the short run AS converges with AD at the same output level.

[affenkopf]

Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress?

There are much worse. The 'Audit the Fed' bill alone makes him better than most other congress critters.

[SIV]

No, Grayson threatened to have political opponents jailed.His pandering to lefty central bank haters doesn't even begin to mitigate that.

[affenkopf]

Didn't know that. So okay, he is a complete asshole.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Of course, the Republican Party impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob, But Dubya/dick get away with lying to start a war of aggression in Iraq. Righty central middle income class haters don't even begin to mitigate that!

[Episiarch]

You do know what site you're at, right?

Probably not.

[Ted S.]

Are we supposed to drink to that?

[.]

Episiarch|9.27.10 @ 8:37PM|#
You do know what site you're at, right?

What's the difference between the execrable Alan Grayson and the execrable Episiarch?

[PapayaSF]

You do know that there are specific legal penalties for lying under oath, right?

[Ron L]

Kevin Schmidt|9.27.10 @ 8:31PM|#
"Of course, the Republican Party impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob,"
Of course it would take a brain-dead ignoramus to presume a political party could impeach a president.
When did they toss you out of school?

[sr7]

Two years of an agenda derailed by something as irrelevant as a blowjob. If only impeachment could have happened to every other president since FDR.

[yonemoto]

can we roll back to wilson?

[Ted S.]

What did Calvin Coolidge do to deserve impeachment?

[tarran]

Coolidge put that raging government-should-control-the-economy nutjob Herbert Hoover in charge of the Agriculture Dept.

[geokstr]

Yes, and it was just that blowjob that made Clinton have to admit to perjury and surrender his law license, right? I didn't realize that the law was so prudish.

[Sss345]

Iget so tired of that lame lie. Don't be lazy. Google Clinton, gore, Kerry, Ted Kennedy. - you can hear clips of them warning about the WMDs. Bush had congress's approval. He could.t just go to war without going through congress.

[Sss345]

Clinton, gore, kept, Kennedy Ll said there were wmds. Google it. Besides he couldnt dk it alone - he had congreaaional approval

[yonemoto]

you can be correct on one issue and oh, so, so wrong on so many others.

[The Thinking Man's NASCAR]

Well, you can, it's just not recommended.

[Data is an android]

OP,
I find it interesting that you haven't criticized Republican congress members on their even more loathsome ads.

Way to go, you "independent bootstrapper," you.

[Leroy]

Please give an example, with an included link if possible.

[Dello]

Feel free to provide links...

[Leroy]

Ha-Ha, beat ya to it!

[MJ]

Grayson is one of the repulsive human beings in American politics and ideologically one of the most foolish. He is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the Democrat Congressional Caucus.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Yeah, sticking up for the middle class is so wrong, repulsive and ideologically foolish.

[Ron L]

Kevin Schmidt|9.27.10 @ 8:33PM|#
"Yeah, sticking up for the middle class is so wrong, repulsive and ideologically foolish."
Yeah, repeating brain-dead propaganda is so wrong, repulsive and ideologically foolish.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Then why do you repeat brain-dead propaganda? Why do you support a party that wants to cancel the Constitution, cancel clean energy, cancel all accountability in private industry, cancel affordable healthcare and refuses to tax the upper class even though it creates even greater hardships on the middle class. Oh, and let's not forget the screwing of returning vets suffering from the experience of a war of aggression to prop up fossil fuels.

[Big Chief]

Why do you have to be "Team Red" to think someone on "Team Blue" is particularly odious and plays the worst kind of party politics. Of course, based on your response above you are one of those people, so maybe that's why you can't see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Kevin Schmidt, now in spirited cheer format: "Gimme a B! Gimme an L! Gimme a U! Gimme an E!

What does it spell?!

Blue!

Gooooo Team Blue!"

Schmuck.

[Drax the Destroyer]

This is some shitastic performance art Schmidt. Your mother did much better when she took that pineapple up her... well you know, you were behind the camera after all. We had to clean shit off the walls for weeks.

[Troll Feeder]

Until you present a practical, working replacement, you can shut your cake hole about fossil fuels.

That or give up .... lessee now.... electricity, mechanized mobility, food, clothing (you do know that pretty much all ag products are made out of natural gas, right?), concrete, steel...

And the intertubez, in particular.

[MJ]

How does Grayson "stick up" for the middle class?

That silly mandated vacations bill? Holding out his vote to shamelessly grasp for pork? The abrasive, ugly public persona he has, in which he threatens citizens with criminal prosecutions for daring to exercise their free speech rights to criticize the great man?

[Alex]

You're not sticking up for the middle class.

All you do and pricks like Grayson do is stick up for and defend tyranny.

[M. Simon]

I think Grayson sticks up a finger for the middle class. Let me see middle class? Hmmm. Which finger would that be?

[heller]

Alan Grayson is a great politician.

[matt]

I think the word is poltroon.

[ABC]

So was Hitler

drink.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like somebody has a defamation suit on his hands if he feels like pursuing it.

Alan Grayson is the representative of Orlando, Florida. And it shows.

[BakedPenguin]

The 8th district of Florida does have much of the Orlando area, but you'd be hard pressed to find a much more gerrymandered district.

And it's only too bad that there's no (L) running in the 8th district. As execrable as Grayson is, there's no way I can vote for Webster.

[Anonymous Coward]

If only there was as Dan Webster is about as electable as pond scum.

I forgot this, but like any good bitch, Grayson can dish it out, but he can't take it.

[Attorney]

Write in Fred Hayek.

[PapayaSF]

Pshaw. Barney Frank's got him beat. And look at NC's 3rd!

[prolefeed]

Nah, that's not even the most gerrymandered district in NC.

Try NC-12

OR

IL-17

Now that's gerrymandering.

[prolefeed]

When you've got a district with tentacles sprawling over most of Illinois, and yet it's 100 ft. wide in places, well, that's cherrypicking your constituents.

[Amakudari]

Haha. Just FYI, Mel Watt's district also avoids the white parts of Charlotte toward the south and the white folks in Concord and Kannapolis. The district used to stretch all the way to Durham, picking up black areas along the way. It's pretty impressive. I think it's a slight white plurality at this point, but Mel Watt could be (read: is) a total sell-out and still get elected.

On the drive from my home in Charlotte to my alma mater in Chapel Hill (mostly I-85), by my count I go into and out of his district 14 times.

Also, to be fair, the map shown above contains sea area. If you ignore that, the 3rd goes into and out of the sea several times.

And lastly, this doesn't stretch across Illinois like the 17th, but the 4th is pretty impressive.

[capitol l]

Aw shit man, take a gander at southwest PA, it looks like spiders making love.

[Rob McMillin]

My favorite -- recently redrawn to no longer include me -- is the CA 46, which is a Republican safe district that encompasses the inhabited Channel Islands, the redoubts of the Palos Verdes peninsula, and the more expensive real estate of the beach communities in Orange County and southeastern Los Angeles County. To get there from here, it passes through the uninhabited portions of the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. Nice.

[creech]

That's Dana Rohrabacher's district. He has the good sense each year to introduce legislation that would prohibit DEA from interferring in any state that has legalized medical marijuana. Bit of a warmonger, but pretty libertarian for a conservative.

[MJ]

You would not be that hard pressed to find a more gerrymandered district that borders Grayson's. Look at the 3rd District of FL, allegedly represented by the mighty intellect of Corrine Brown.

[MJ]

The 3rd stretches from Jacksonville to western Orlando.

[MJ]

Orlando may be the most thoroughly gerrymandered decent sized city in the country. The metro area is carved into four districts, which wind around each other bizarrely, none of these districts is centered on Orlando.

[Isaac Bartram]

BP, the 8th and the 7th (mine) are gems but the 3rd is the prize winner. It gets fingers into every black neighborhood from Jacksonville to orlando with Gainesville, Sanford and even Winter Park in between.

[Silentz]

I know of an attorney he could hire...

[Kevin Schmidt]

How is it defamation when everything in the commercials about Webster are true?

By the way, does this mean John Kerry can sue Dubya/dick for defamation because of the Swiftboat lies?

[Episiarch]

Are you Grayson's girlfriend or something? You seem to be in love with him.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Are you on drugs? Your comments are incoherent and idiotic, plus you are homophobic, which means you are in the closet with yourself.

[Episiarch]

Very homophobic. By the way, you are trolling pretty well, but it's still a bit obvious.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Yes, you are very homophobic. I posted comments relevant to the subject of this thread. You posted an uncivil, juvenile personal attack. That makes you the troll. Look it up.

[Episiarch]

As anyone here can tell you, I am the most homophobic person on this board. But I take issue with me being the troll, when you are clearly trolling. Troll.

[.]

No, Episiarch, you are most definitely a troll, if the word still has any meaning here. You're H&R's very own house troll. It's a neurosis. You should get some help.

[Ron L]

Kevin Schmidt|9.27.10 @ 8:35PM|#
"How is it defamation when everything in the commercials about Webster are true?"
Because it's not. Is that clear?

[flye]

Wait a second... "Kevin Schmidt" is an anagram for "Dim Hick Vents".

We're through the looking glass people.

[PapayaSF]

Also "Dick Vent Shim."

[Kevin Schmidt]

You two kiddies are the complete opposite of what this website is supposed to be about.

Foolishness like yours is what I expect from mental midgets who can't win arguments.

[dantealiegri]

Oh noes, the snark!

Hide the children!

Also, if you were too busy cheerleading to notice, the article was about how he was lying in his ads, so if you want to claim he isn't, you should like, provide evidence.

[Lord Ballsac]

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. These comments are all about swears, beastiality, mother fuckin', and calling out Team Red and Team Blue. So, go fuck yourself. If you don't know who you are even impotently screaming at, you've already lost. Penis Sheath.

[capitol l]

For a magazine called "Reason"...

[Leroy]

What arguments?

You've so far posted some ridiculous bullshit that is all nonsense, and anyone with half a brain will disregard it as the utterings of a moron.

If you actually have a point to argue, feel free. Until then expect to be abused, you ratbagging teafucking troll.

[Jeffersonian]

As I recall, the SB guys pretty much said that they held Kerry in low regard now and back in Vietnam. I'm not sure how A - that can be can be called defamation and B - how an independent group's claims can be cause to sue a candidate.

[Kevin Schmidt]

Because the Swiftboat liars claimed Kerry faked a purple heart and did not deserve a metal, which is indeed defamation of character.

Meanwhile it was Bush who disgraced himself for being drummed out of the service for being an alcoholic and a danger to every living thing within 1,000 miles of his out of control high (literally) flying.

[SDN]

Well, now we know the one person in America who believes Dan Rather.

[Babyface]

Jesus, all this bullshit makes me think the Daily Kos is offering two-minutes-hate webinars.

[waffles]

I get them in my email about twice a week. Hate is catharsis.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Grow a fucking independent brain and do some thinking for yourself instead of just believing every piece of bullshit that spews out of Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow or the Daily Kos. Do some independent investigation of the nonsense they spew.

Do the same for both sides, and you will find that the vast majority of the time, reality and actual fact lie somewhere between the two.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to refer the (un)distinguished gentleman to rule RTFA.

[Azathoth]

Kerry could sue the Swifties--since they're the ones that actually told the lies.

Funny thing is, Kevin, they actually challenged him to do just that.

He didn't.

I've always wondered why.

[Apogee]

One would think that simply editing together various bits of footage of Grayson speaking in public would be all the evidence any challenger would need to gain victory.

[Mo]

Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress?

That's like being the loosest chick at the Mustang Ranch.

[Mo]

Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress?

That's like being the loosest chick at the Mustang Ranch.

[Isaac Bartram]

Mo, comparing Congresscritters to whores defames good honest working girls the world over.

[dantealiegri]

Yeah, at least they work for their money.

[Drax the Destroyer]

At least whores provide a service.

[troy]

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.

- Mark Twain.

[Not an Economist]

Troy that is totally uncalled for. You can't compare a sitting member of Congress to an idiot. That is just not fair ... to the idiot.

[Mr Whipple]

Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress?

I dunno. I kinda like watching him question Bernanke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7_V7zJT-XA

[Mr Whipple]

The really sad thing is, no one there knew that the FOMC was created in the 1933 Banking Act, not the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

[Xenocles]

I haven't watched the video, but I'm willing to bet that that's not the saddest thing about it.

[Mad Max]

Don't forget Daniel Webster's 7th of March, 1850 speech where he endorsed the new Fugitive Slave Act.

And I've heard of an even more sinister associate of his up in New Hampshire.

[Episiarch]

I have to say, I really don't mind seeing horrific mudslinging between politicians when they're both loathsome. And since they're pretty much all loathsome, I actually find it somewhat entertaining.

[Mr Whipple]

I'd rather see them fling mud, than tell me how they are different than all the others, or how they are going to "help".

[Kevin Schmidt]

First the producers of Studio Wrestling took over the news shows. Now they're taking over political campaigns too. You do it's all fake. No, not Studio Wrestling. CSpan coverage of Congress!

[.]

Episiarch|9.27.10 @ 7:44PM|#
"I have to say, I really don't mind seeing horrific mudslinging..."

Of course you don't. You and Grayson are soul mates.

[dantealiegri]

While I agree, the sad thing is that they run ads like those because they *do* change the minds of some people. That makes me less entertained.

[Colin]

This is nothing compared how he tried to have a woman arrested because she parodied his Website.

If he employed the very same tactics but had right-leaning politics, everyone at MSNBC would be calling him out for the rat he is.

[Some Dork]

Do voters even care about draft dodging? The accusations didn't seem to hurt quayle, or Clinton, or G W Bush. I know old people vote more often than the young, but I doubt the draft issue has any effect on voters under 55. As far as younger voters are concerned, the draft was just something that existed in ancient times, and they don't really have any emotional connection to the issue.
It has been shown in many studies that negative attack ads may lose votes for the candidate under attack, but they don't add any to the attacking candidate, and the ads considered unfair actually cost the attacker some votes as well. If a draft-dodging charge doesn't cost Webster many votes, but the vicious ads do cost Grayson votes, this strategy could actually backfire. Maybe. That would be cool if it did.

[Mr Whipple]

"It's the economy, stupid."

- James Carville

[Old Person]

I vote five, six times a day.

[prolefeed]

For that large percentage of the population that thinks military service (aka "slavery") is immoral, they might not be all that inclined to get upset at those who did their best to avoid being the victim of said immoral government policy.

[prolefeed]

above should read "COMPULSORY military service". fucking preview button not working.

[Corduroy]

I would say Grayson is the exact type of politician that would become a dictator if elected POTUS. Demagogue, paranoid, populist, and with seemingly zero scruples, he would be terrifying.

[Silentz]

Just like....oh, I see what you did there...

[Jerry Jones]

That actually makes a little sense dude.

http://www.web-privacy.it.tc

[Wind Rider]

Orlando, eh? That must be why my friend from FL mentioned that Grayson was just like Minnie Mouse. No, wait, that isn;t how he put it. Oh, yeah, now I remember - he's fucking Goofy.

[BoscoH]

Someone needs to autotune "submit to me" and "the bible says". If ever there should be an option for "flush both of them with peanut oil" it is now.

[Tony]

In the last ten years the Republicans have tried to block a health care bill that will save millions of lives, instituted a war in Iraq that has killed hundreds of thousands, run up a major deficit, used torture illegally, stolen money from the middle class in order to funnel it into the pockets of Wall Street goons, practically melted the planet, and of course, stole the 2000 elections.

Allowing them to get back into power so they can continue our country's backwards slide into the stone age would be unconscionable. If the Democrats, on occasion, use tactics that you hypocritical libertards consider unfair, then I just don't give a shit. Comparing Grayson's actions to those of Bush's and his Republican contemporaries is hilarious. How many elections has Grayson stolen?

[Atanarjuat]

This has to be a spoof, Republicans "practically melted the planet"!?

[Ron L]

Pretty sure it's a sock; even tony isn't *that* ignorant.

[Atanarjuat]

Real Tony, get an email address, you post here enough. There is a real Tony, right?

[Tony]

This is. I used to put my email address on here, till some live-and-let-live privacy loving ass pimple started googling it and harassing me about the things he found. Wonder whatever happened to that fuckface.

[Daedalus]

Actually, we called you a pretentious fuck for having the name of the protagonist of Ulysses as your nom du email, and it made you wet your diaper. Rewriting history to make yourself look much better than you are wont work as the rest of us lived it, and laughed heartily.

[Episiarch]

Oh dude, I had forgotten that. Thanks for the reminder; that is funny shit.

[Tony]

That was an email address from my college days when I was studying James Joyce, and my secondary one I used for spam at that.

That still doesn't solve the conundrum of you having no friends and a microscopic penis.

[Ayn_Randian]

till some live-and-let-live privacy loving ass pimple started googling it and harassing me about the things he found

Ha! That would be me. And blogs are not "private", else they would not be blogs.

[Tony]

Ah, still as big a dumbshit as ever.

[Tony]

Alright, I will take back my supposedly ignorant comment.

In the last ten years, the Republicans, by refusing to ratify Kyoto, blocking cap and trade and failing to significantly regulate pollution haven't contributed significantly to global warming.

There, I am no longer ignorant.

[flye]

In the last ten years, the Republicans, by refusing to ratify Kyoto, blocking cap and trade, and failing to significantly regulate pollution, have almost earned my vote.

But then there's all that other stuff.

[Tman]

You'd have to correct more than that, and more specifically show why in order to argue why Republicans will be worse than what we have now. Many democrats voted against Kyoto, for Iraq, raised the deficit in ways that dwarfed exponentially what Republicans had done and couldn't pass Scam'n'trade with both houses and the executive office.

Your argument, it fails. As usual.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"In the last ten years, the Republicans, by refusing to ratify Kyoto,"

All 96 senators that voted against it were Republicans?

"blocking cap and trade"

In case you haven't noticed, the U3 is at 9.5%. When even Obama's admitted that passing cap and trade will kill jobs, that's not the kind of thing that normally passes through Congress--unless you think Obama's so weak he can't get it through with a near-supermajority. Even Reagan and Clinton passed legislation with less of an advantage.

"and failing to significantly regulate pollution"

Salazar certainly did a bang-up job in the Gulf this year, didn't he?

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

If the Democrats, on occasion, use tactics that you hypocritical libertards consider unfair, then I just don't give a shit.

Typical fucking disingenuous asshole progressive lefty. The desired ends justify the means - any means whatsoever. Winning is all; seeking no truth.

"Stole the 2000 elections"? Jesus fucking H. Christ, you're still no that tired, worn-out old meme? It has no relation to reality - which you apparently are completely disconnected from.

If you had actually paid attention and done some reading, you might have known that several major media outlets went and actually counted all those ballots in Florida, applying the standards for counting that had been in place before the courts put an end to the counting. What they found was that Bush would have won anyway. By a very narrow margin, yes, but there it is.

And all the shit you complain about - pursuing a war, running up a major deficit, using torture illegally - Obama and his Dems are doing that even moreso than Bush and his Repubs did - or are you so blissfully ignorant and so far up the Team Blue asshole that you can't see that reality? Team Obama has used remote drones to kill many hundreds of people - far more drone killings than occurred under Bush - including U.S. citizens.

And last I checked, the Dems not only represented a pretty fair amount of Congress, but actually controlled it during the last two years of Bush's presidency. Take a look at who was in favor of shoring up Fannie and Freddie and the policies that led to the subprime collapse, versus who was yelling for reform.

Fuck you and slap your mother for spewing you out of her loins. You truly are a loathsome asshole.

[Tony]

Hey, ignorant tool, you're barely suppressing yourself to a spoof.

[Steven Smith]

It seems like Moynahan is arguing that the Taliban would be less "loathsome", and more acceptable, if they quit stoning women, while maintaining the ideology they seem to share with Mr. Webster. In other words, Teabaggery=Taliban-Lite.

[Episiarch]

STEVE(N) SMITH AGAINST STONING! RAPE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH UPPITY FEMALE HIKER! OR UPPITY MALE HIKER! OR UPPITY ROCK! YES, STEVE(N) HAS RAPED ROCK BEFORE! BUT NOT PROUD OF IT!

[John]

Yeah, Webster is just like the Taliban. They share the same ideology or similiar ones. Jesus Smith, you really are a man raping bigfoot.

[johnl]

Steve the optimal number of stonings is 0. So the Taliban would be more acceptable if they didn't stone people.

[cynical]

"It seems like Moynahan is arguing that the Taliban would be less "loathsome", and more acceptable, if they quit stoning women"

Are you suggesting that stoning women does not make a group more loathsome? Why do you hate women?

[Tony]

To the fake Tony above, I can make a fool of myself on my own just fine thank you.

But this piece is quite rich. Pretty much to a person the Republican caucus in the House calls the president and all Democrats socialists--at best--and reason is getting its panties in a wad over comparing someone who is in fact a member of the Christian Taliban to the Taliban?

This is worthy of CNN, and that's not a compliment. Republicans universally behaving like raving lunatics and engaging in character assassination politics? Ahh, that's just Republicans being themselves. One single Democrat does the same thing: controversy! Outrage!

[Fake Tony Above]

My fake Tony is better than your fake Tony.

[Tman]

See that's what crazy. When someone is spoofing Tony well it's impossible to tell the difference.

He really does sound like that.

[Jeffersonian]

It's like a Turing test, but with incoherence being the objective.

[Draco]

I am relatively new here, so please forgive me if this is an old game but... has anyone ever wondered whether all of the "Tony"s (and "Chad"s) around here are sock puppets?

FWIW, I think he is real, and think that I can usually spot the real one among the puppets. My personal hunch is that he is either a college professor or a high school teacher.

Also, I think it is unfair that people sock puppet him. I think that's actually wrong at a meta-level. Let the man make his own arguments. I for one enjoy his posts, which are sometimes more challenging than some of us are willing to admit. But only sometimes.

[John]

Tony does try. He is not on the level of Edward or Lefiti. You are right it is wrong to sock puppet him.

[Sock Puppet Tony]

It depends on why we do it to decide whether or not it is wrong.

Us posters at "Reason" live under the stubborn delusion that our free-market policies are what is best for society. We have also yet to realize there is literally no difference between what we advocate and what GW did for eight years. No difference at all. Futhermore, we still stupidly believe it is possible to dislike Obama and Bush, and clearly, it is not.

If those of us who sock-puppet him are able to successfully mimic him, then it means we have come around to the correct way of thinking. We will never learn only by having him inform us, we must realize it for ourselves.

The ultimate goal is for all of us to post in a way indistinguishable from him, and more importantly, from each other. That goes not only for the Reason board, but anywhere else. And, then, by accusing anyone else who disagrees with us, or Obama, or any Democrat, of being just like GW, then we will successfully evolve into a society where there is no disagreement, and everyone sees the true light of the progressive way.

And really, isn't that the ultimate goal?

[Spartacus]

John|9.27.10 @ 9:53PM|#
"Tony does try. He is not on the level of Edward or Lefiti."

As visions of fake blog handles danced in his head.

[Apogee]

I've not witnessed this 'sometimes'.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"I for one enjoy his posts, which are sometimes more challenging than some of us are willing to admit. But only sometimes."

Honestly, the biggest challenge is just keeping up with his seperately posted talking points--refuting him with facts takes about 10 seconds worth of research, or not being completely asleep the last 20 years.

[cynical]

"I for one enjoy his posts, which are sometimes more challenging than some of us are willing to admit. But only sometimes."

Are you sure that those aren't just sockpuppets?

[Eric]

So being a socialist is the moral equivalent of being a member of the Taliban? Welcome aboard the good ship libertarian, Tony, enjoy your stay.

[Fluffy]

The draft commercial is in fact execrable, but every factual assertion in the Taliban ad is absolutely correct.

You might not lack the nickname Grayson attaches to those absolutely true facts, but that's really too damn bad, Moynihan.

I get to call Obama a socialist because his communitarian instincts make him fundamentally a socialist from my perspective as a libertarian. And I get to call Webster Taliban-Dan because his surrendered-wife fundtard garbage gives him a similar amount of philosophical affinity to the Taliban. Don't like it? Oh well.

[SIV]

Well if he's for voluntary wife-surrender it's OK with me. You're not one of those "Kerry Howleytarians" who think there is something wrong with "society" letting women choose to be subservient to their husbands are you?

[Fluffy]

If you're for "voluntary wife surrender" and think divorce should be illegal and think women should be legally obligated to stay in abusive marriages and I have all these things on tape, I get to put those things in an ad to try to crucify you. And if Moynihan doesn't like it and wants to whine about how mean it is, he can eat a box of dicks.

[SIV]

See what happens when you let the state into the marriage business?

[Michael Ejercito]

But what about the fact that divorce harms kids?

No-fault divorce has led to a generation of kids raised by single mothers.

[capitol l]

First of all, you must provide evidence that being raised by a single mother is harmful to a child.

Secondly, are you really playing the "for the children" card here, really?

[Michael Ejercito]

First of all, you must provide evidence that being raised by a single mother is harmful to a child.

Children raised by single mothers are more likely to turn to a life of crime.

[context]

in this comment fluffy said:

divorce should be illegal,
women should be legally obligated to stay in abusive marriages,
he can eat a box of dicks.

don't like it. oh well.

[John]

I agree. "Taliban" is sort of an all purpose name for fanatics. Vegans are the Taliban wing of the vegitarian movement. MADD is the Taliban wing of the drunk driving fanatics and so forth. It is a stupid commercial. But I don't see it being out of line.

The draft dodging commercial is in contrast a flat out lie and dispicable.

[a]

This is the same Michael Moynihan who threw around comparisons to Nazis, Communists, Holocaust-deniers, etc. when pissing on Iraq war protesters:
http://www.capitalismmagazine......?news=2672

[Weirddave]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm curious if the fact that Grayson edited the tape to get the quote not just out of context, but to completely reverse what Webster actually said, changes your dislike towards Webster? What he actually said was ""I have verses for my wife. Don't pick the ones that say, 'She should submit to me.' That's in the Bible, but pick the ones that you're supposed to do. So instead, 'Love your wife even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.'". The bolded text is what Grayson used in his ad. Kinda the opposite of what Webster said, isn't it?

I personally have no truck with fundy nonsense, but this is ridiculous.

Sauce and video goodness

[GoNavy]

BakedPenguin|9.27.10 @ 7:40PM|#
The 8th district of Florida does have much of the Orlando area, but you'd be hard pressed to find a much more gerrymandered district.

Here is one you might find even more of a Gerrymander.

http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....district=3

[GoNavy]

Or this one:

http://www.govtrack.us/congres.....district=2

[Apogee]

All these gerrymandered districts are bogging my system down. Could we just do the short list of non-gerrymandered districts?

[GoNavy]

Delaware District 1 - It is the whole state.

[prolefeed]

Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota and Vermont are also full state districts.

New Hampshire and Hawaii only have two reasonably non-gerrymandered districts, Hawaii in part because the state constitution specifies in great detail what constitutes gerrymandering and outlaws it -- though you gotta ride herd on the people who draw the district lines, shame them if they step out of line.

[christina]

Iowa isn't gerrymandered because it's the only state in which geography is the primary basis of drawing district lines. All the other ways states do it are demographically based, and therefore politically gerrymandered.

[Fluffy]

OK, now I've read the Factcheck report, and I suppose they're right that the ad is incorrect when it says Wesbter "refused the call to service" six times. Apparently he only refused it five times. This definitely calls for a correction.

By the standard applied to Bill Clinton's student deferments, every one of Webster's student deferments is a separate and distinct act of draft dodging. But there were only 5 of those and not 6, so Grayson's people really should fix the ad.

The "he doesn't love his country like I do" thing is subjective and not really subject to fact check.

[John]

Millions of people had deferements. The bitch about Bill Clinton's deferment and Dan Quayle's was that they had strings pulled to get them or in Quayle's case to get into a National Guard unit.

[Binky]

The "he doesn't love his country like I do" thing is subjective and not really subject to fact check.

What about the "he doesn't love sheep like I do" thing?

[Isaac Bartram]

Kevin Schmidt|9.27.10 @ 8:28PM|#

Any reputable economist would make the same argument. Keynesian fiscal stimulus does indeed work. Ask any Econ 101 student.

No, what Keynesian fiscal stimulus does is create early entry lottery winners and after a while investment bubbles.

Of course, Keynesian fiscal stimulus is only supposed to be put in place in economic downturns. When the economy picks up you,re supposed to cut spending, raise taxes and pay down debt.

Mind you, given that CONgress has not seen fit to vote a balanced budget in seventy or so years it's clear that there's been an ongoing economic crisis for someone all the time.

So, it's not just that like Nixon said that "we're all Keynesians now".

It appears that what we are now is "All Keynesians, all the time".

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Kevin's problem is that he didn't complete the sentence. Keynesian stimulus does work--in papering over the problem and not letting the economy clear out the detrius, so that when the supports are removed, the economy drops right back down the level it was supposed to be at anyway. As if the last 5 months, and the upcoming bloodbath in state government budgets, wasn't evidence enough of that.

[AlmightyJB]

Five more weeks of this shit. Sigh.

[capitol l]

I can't wait for the republicans to win, at least, the house. Maybe we will get some conservative trolls, as the liberal ones are getting stale.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Seriously, it's like listening to Al Bundy brag about scoring three touchdowns for Polk High.

[AA]

I guess I'm relatively new here too, but I've always wondered why we have so many progressive trolls and no crazy conservative Trolls.

[prolefeed]

Donderoooooo got run out. There are some conservatives here like John, but believing what one says and having some semblance of facts to back up many of one's assertions so they are not obviously false =/= troll.

[AA]

John seems a bit libertarian leaning, but I can see him conservative as well. I did see Donderoooo a few days ago, but he didn't last long.

[PapayaSF]

Perhaps progressives feel more threatened by libertarians than conservatives do.

[AA]

This is true, and not surprising I guess. When I first became a Libertarian a few years back, I was surprised at the amount of hatred thrown at us from Progressives; it seemed at first we had some important things in common. But man, they sure do hate anything that has to do with free markets/economic freedom - completely irrational.

[Rahm Emanuel]

I know what you mean! I am so already out of ..... Wait, what did you mean?

[West Texas Boy]

Don't forget Grayson's (in)famous speech in the House about how the GOP plan to cut healthcare costs is to just let old people die.

Not that the Republicans are worth a shit on their own with entitlement reform, but that was a particularly ahem execrable mischaracterization.

The dude is obviously dishonorable and has absolutely no issues with saying batshit falsehoods about people who disagree with him, and then he stands there with that shit eating "fuck your dog" grin of his.

[BigGuy]

The first part of the brief speech was the Republican policy for dealing with the uninsured who become ill:
DON'T GET SICK.

Nothing said by any one from the Republican party in Congress suggests in any way that he was incorrect in stating that this is the Republican's way of dealing with the uninsured; advocating those without funds or insurance to deal with the possibility of disease and illness by staying healthy. Also, advocating folks to pray for those who are ill.

In the entire year and a half while health care was being debated in Congress, there was not one single Republican who suggested spending money by the government to help care for the ill among us.

Republicans do not see it as the duty of government to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, or comfort the sick. They advocate people go to private charities and churches. Just think how well our society would be if all the orphaned young men who need direction and support were going to men like Bishop Eddie Long, instead of receiving social security survivor's benefits.

[Cody]

"Is Alan Grayson the most loathsome member of Congress?"

Alan Grayson is certainly loathsome (he is, after all, a Congressman), but he is definitely not the most loathsome member of Congress.

The first ad is pretty nasty, but it's nothing that hasn't been done a thousand times before. Nearly every Republican in the country has accused his political opponents of "not loving his country," so that ad is not remarkable.

The second ad really isn't offensive. If the quotes included in that ad are accurate, then Daniel Webster is indeed a pretty nasty bastard (at least as nasty as Grayson). It may be a bit of a stretch to call him "Taliban Daniel Webster," but that is the only thing in that ad that is even marginally objectionable.

If you think Grayson is "the most loathsome member of Congress," then you must not pay attention to the other 534 members.

[SIV]

Which of the others have called for jailing citizens who are critical of them? If you can name any Congressmen who do then we can decide if they are "worse than Grayson".If none, Grayson retains the "most loathsome" title.

[BigJay]

Grayson uses Webster's own extreme words, that is not a smear and all Webster can do is tell his wife to "submit" a response. I'm voting for the truth teller, Grayson.

[Brian D]

Grayson uses Webster's words out of context.

When Webster says "Don't pick the ones that say 'She should submit to me.'" and Grayson's ad only uses the 'She should submit to me' part in a way to make it seem as if he is advocating that, then the ad lies egregiously. The only truth is how despicably sleazy Grayson is.

[Ron L]

Tony|9.27.10 @ 9:01PM|#
"Alright, I will take back my supposedly ignorant comment.
In the last ten years, the Republicans, by refusing to ratify Kyoto,"

Not sure this is tony, but I'll address the specific comment:
"Gore soon returned to Washington only to reiterate his message that the Clinton administration would not put the Kyoto Protocol before the Senate. "As we have said before, we will not submit the Protocol for ratification without the meaningful participation of key developing countries in efforts to address climate change," he said."
http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-frank170706.htm

[dave c]

Tony's boyfriend?

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Homophobe!

Also: racist!

[Michael B Sullivan]

Wouldn't it be completely rad if "saying mean things about your political opponents" qualified you to be the most loathsome member of Congress?

C'mon, Moynihan. I'm sure that Grayson is a douche, but probably at least half of Congress gives a big ol' thumbs up to torture and assassination programs against American citizens. And the other half sure as hell isn't working very hard to stop those things. I think we can find mildly more loathsome acts than "using overblown rhetoric in political ads."

[a]

"probably at least half of Congress gives a big ol' thumbs up to torture and assassination programs against American citizens."

Those are Moynihan's favorites.

[Max]

You right-wing libertoids are the most loathsome assholes on the planet. But, hey, Barbara Boxer is going to win. Stick your right-wing shit back up your fat asses where it came from and weep, mother fuckers.

[PapayaSF]

That's the sort of subtle, nuanced thinking we expect from Max. Enjoy the change this November!

[Max]

I will certainly enjoy Barbara Boxer's triumph over that Republican cunt.

[Drax the Destroyer]

So the turd sandwich will beat the giant douche? Who fucking cares?

[goodspkr]

Nice mouth. Do you eat with it too?

[Mr. FIFY]

One cunt triumphant over another, Max, does not a victory make.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

It's fitting that Barbara Boxer's initials are B.B., because she is one Batshitcrazy Bitch.

She's about as dumn as a box of rocks and useless as a bucket of armpits. She's as clever and appealing as a sack of shelled snails.

And yet the left wing progressholes out there keep electing her. It's nearly as unbelievable as the idiots in D.C. re-electing Marion Barry. At least that you can explain based largely on racial issues.

How a stupid bitch like Boxer can continue to get elected to the U.S. Congress is beyond me.

And I will laugh my ass off the day she loses her seat.

[NadePaulKuciGravMcKi]

AIPAC? fears? the real 9/11 investigation.

[PapayaSF]

Conspiracy troll is off-topic. And sad.

[Max]

Hey, conspiracies are never off topic on right0wing blogs. Conspiracies explain why you jerk-off creeps are such losers.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Biology and genetics explain why you are one yourself.

[Colin]

And stupidity.

[Max]

Why is that? Because the Yids did it? Stick it back up you ass, I said!

[catholicgauze]

Am I the only one who notices that the ad is Islamophobic? (The profession of the Islamic faith is below the two maps) Coming from an incumbent Democrat of all people

[Mike C]

Hmmm... "The Devil and Daniel Webster"?

[goodspkr]

Grayson is loathsome. I hope the people of Florida do the right thing and get rid of this grandstanding bigot.

[Kevin]

*barf*

[Colin]

The Orlando Sentinel has just exposed the Taliban ad. In full context, Webster didn't say wives should submit to their husbands, but just the opposite.

Waiting for some honest liberal to slam this shite for what he is . . .

[Isaac Bartram]

I may be remembering wrong, but my recollection is tha Webster is your average Chamber of Commerce/Rotary Club Republican who said a few libertarianish like a lot of GOPers did. Trouble is that now that they been in power for a while (it wasn't til the late nineties that Republicans took control of both houses in Tallahassee for the first time since Reconstruction) we see that how they campaign and how they legislate are two different things.

I'm afraid i really didn't pay too much attention to Webster during his career in the Florida House and Senate but I don't recall him doing anything particularly outrageously unlibertarian during his stay there.

That said, anyone who replaces Grayson would have to be an improvement. But I feel that way about just about all of them. 🙂

[Isaac Bartram]

...a few libertarianish things...

It helps to not leave words out of comments.

[Isaac Bartram]

I notice on his wikipedia entry that he did join the Schiavo circus. That was decidedly one of many low points for the GOP both at the national and state levels.

Though on balance Republican rule in Florida has been generally OK except for that one point (Schiavo).

[GoNavy]

That was decidedly one of many low points for the GOP and Democrats both at the national and state levels.

Both sides abused the Schiavo case. A pox on both of their houses!

[Ted C]

I cant believe there are people actually posting comments in defense of Grayson. They are just as despicable and loathsome as he is.

[Horologium]

No, just willfully stupid or inexcusably misinformed. Neither are crimes, regrettably.

[Patriot nurse]

Alan Graysons' time has come. He is a one term Congressman.All I can say is Thank God !!! Dan Webster is a good man and I hope he sues Grayson for libel/slander !!!!!

[boomshanka]

A truly loathsome congressman might say that his opponent is a secret member of the Taliban who is here to undermine the American government.

Do you really think Grayson tops the list?

[Debbie]

Grayson is a very sick and troubled man. What else can be said of him, he has some serious mental issues.

[BigGuy]

Grayson's ad has more truth in it than the swiftboat ads against Kerry in 2004.

People who applaud what Glen Beck and Rush say nearly everyday about Liberals seem very uncomfortable with a liberal Democrat who actually fights back. Liberals like that Grayson fights back and wish there were many more like him in Congress.

[Francois]

As a non-American, I found both ads hilarious. It is difficult to believe that they are not parodies of negative political ads.

Oh, and a question: if you showed the first ad to Democrats who were not familiar with the candidates, would the percentage who would immediately launch into a diatribe against this despicable GOP ad targeting a good patriotic Democratic citizen be 98% or 99%?

[Al Grayson (not a Jewish one)]

I suspect that "Grayson" ("I am Jewish," yes, he is and is a member of a synagogue) was directed to sign on Ron Paul's "Audit the Fed" bill to discredit Paul, since "Grayson" has such a name for being a boor and a nutjob. It's not like a congressman can keep others from supporting a bill. A vote's a vote, anyway, though there's no guarantee that just because Grayson signed on as a supporter that he would vote for it if it ever actually made it to the floor.

[JoeBobT.]

"divorce should be illegal"
Yes.
"women should be legally obligated to stay in abusive marriages"
Yes. Her Daddy and her Bubba need to whup her bad husbin good. "Slap mah sista ag'in, Ah bust yo' ahm, yuh piece o' shit. Yuh be uh good husbin tuh mah sista, heah now?" Maybe straighten him out. If not, kill um.