Cop vs. Dog

Unfortunately, part of a continuing series.

• D.C. police shoot and kill a dog during the middle of a street fair in the Adams Morgan neighborhood. Click through the links for detailed coverage from the DCist.
• Chicago Blue Island, Illinois police unilaterally decide to euthanize a sick 14-year-old dog with a bullet to the head. A neighbor had told the officer who found the dog where to find its owners, but the information apparently wasn't passed on when that officer was called away.
• Lexington, Kentucky police officer enters private, fenced-in yard with a posted "Beware of Dog" sign while pursuing a teen who fled from a nearby trailer park. The teen didn't live at the residence. The family dog defended its territory from an intruder, so the cop shot it.

Lexington police spokeswoman Sherelle Roberts said officer Greenleaf acted appropriately and, according to preliminary information, did not violate any policy.

"Neither the dog nor the officer did anything wrong. They both did what they had to do," Roberts said.

"The dog was protecting its property and the officer was protecting his safety." Roberts said Greenleaf "had a legal right to be there because he was pursuing a suspect."

My take on why police officers need more training in how to deal with dogs here.

MORE: Via the comments, here's another one from this weekend in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Comments

[Whipping Boy]

The cops in pursuit of the perp obviously should have stopped at the fence, asked for permission to enter, waited for the dog to be brought inside, and then resumed their chase. Discuss.

[hmm]

Or realized there was a dog and run like hell instead of shooting it. Or gone around. I'd say pulling your weapon and shooting really is the last of a long line of options.

But I know, cops aren't trained to deal with scenarios in which other options are available so they default to their training of shoot shit and thump chest. Right?

Your troll gets a B- lil' too obvious.

[Tulpa]

I'm pretty sure the dog is capable of catching people who try to run away from it. From what I understand, the canine world isn't big on rules of engagement.

[Tulpa]

Inconvenient truth:

It wasn't until after Greenleaf had jumped the fence that he realized Rocky was there, Roberts said. The officer tried to run back to the fence and climb over, but the dog cornered him, she said.

[waffles]

that dog is a tactical genius

[Spencer Smith]

Taser, mace, screaming for the owner. Those are 3 without having to really think about it.

[Tulpa]

Owner wasn't home according to the article. And you have to have some seriously good aim to mace a running dog.

Not sure about the taser -- aren't those more lethal to dogs anyway?

[Spencer Smith]

Tasers can be fatal to dogs- but less fatal than 6 bullets. The dog had him cornered, right? Even if it didn't- it's NOT hard to mace a dog who's moving. it's also not hard to kick it or outsmart it.

[Tulpa]

Pretty sure the dog knows that property far better than the cop does.

If it were so easy to overpower/escape from dogs, people wouldn't use them to defend their property. I mean, kicking it? Yeah, I'm sure the dog doesn't have an answer for that...

[-]

You're obviously just a shill for Big Attack Dog.

[-]

If it were so easy to overpower/escape from dogs, people wouldn't use them to defend their property.

Good point. I'm going to have to rethink my attack-hamster strategy.

[Spencer Smith]

It is a DOG. It isn't a military strategist. It isn't a thinking and planning animal. If humans had the inability to outsmart aggressive dogs and other animals- we would have all died out long ago. Why can't you just admit that this was- from the report- an unjustified killing of an animal? Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

[?]

It is a DOG.

And those sharp canine teeth are intended for soft cheeses and soup.

[Zeb]

If the dog is running toward you, it is not too hard to mace it. If it is not, it is not too much of a threat.

Maybe the chance of getting bit by a dog when you have to cross private property should be part of the accepted dangers of being a cop. Seems a lot more reasonable than shooting any dog anywhere who growls at you.

[JD]

And you have to have some seriously good aim to mace a running dog.

Bear spray (ie a big-ass can of mace) is considered by many a better way to stop a bear charge than a firearm because it is easier to score a hit--just spray like a fire extinguisher.

[Cartman]

Becky, bear mace that guy! And that one!

[Jorj X. McKie]

You can hose down an entire yard with those easily, but you know, cops have too much junk on their belts already.

[Squeaky]

I find it truly amazing how meter readers, gasmen, mailmen, etc. have all figured out how to deal with these dangerous, ferocious beasts without the need to pull out a gun and unload a full clip on the pups, but cops need to pull out their gun and kill everything from a little Doxie to a 15 year old dog living his last days?
Heros...not in my eyes.

[Gray Ghost]

Foot to the dog, baton: you're right, Tulpa, it was kill or be killed. And it took six shots to put down the hell-beast. Good thing we don't arm the U.S. Postal Service.

[Tulpa]

Oh please, not even remotely the same thing. A mailman is walking to a specific, easily accessible area of the property that he or she goes to every day. Not running and jumping into a fenced-in section of the property.

[Lost_In_Translation]

yeah, which is why postmen deserve to not be attacked by dogs more than police.

Seriously though, if the suspect escaped the dog, one would think the cop could.

[Death Panelist]

Pretty sure the dog knows that property far better than the cop does.

Maybe that's one good reason not to go rushing onto private property, even when you think you saw your suspect go there, and especially when you can't read posted signs.

[Coeus]

Taser, mace, screaming for the owner. Those are 3 without having to really think about it.

I'm sure he thought he drew the taser, but to to a regrettable and completely unforeseen lack of training, he pulled his gun instead (plus, dogs don't cry or beg for mercy, so where's the fun in tasing them?).

[Ska]

The fleeing criminal suspect managed to run through the yard without shooting the dog. The cop couldn't do the same? Isn't stopping to shoot the dog counter-productive to chasing and cathing the suspected criminal?

[SugarFree]

"Isn't stopping to shoot the dog counter-productive to chasing and catching the suspected criminal?"

He had to kill something first to get his combo multiplier high enough to get all of the experience points for shooting the fleeing suspect in the back.

[hmm]

Awesome.

[Episiarch]

Which Borderlands achievement is that?

[SugarFree]

"Is Your Brother A Kentucky Policeman?"

[Tulpa]

When the perp ran through the yard the dog was probably surprised. When the cop came into the yard the dog was already running around and in full attack mode.

It's the same reason soldiers always want to be the first one to pass in front of a window when there are snipers around.

[Spencer Smith]

Isn't walking point = to sniper bait? I always thought it was and that's why no one wanted to do it.

[Tulpa]

Depends on how quickly you pass the window.

[TrickyVic]

""Isn't walking point = to sniper bait?""

It's landmine bait. Snipers will hit a more valuable target then the shitbirds they make walk point. An ambush will usually go for the main body of the patrol.

[Chris]

its also why you want to be the first person in line walking thru the woods. 1st person wakes up the snake, 2nd person gets bit

[Chris Mallory]

The "perp" was a 17 y.o. wanted on, what so far has been released, a bench warrant. It isn't like the cop was chasing a rapist or armed robber. Also, the cop was not in pursuit. The police had lost the suspect and were searching for him. The cop had no clue if the kid was hiding in the yard or not. So yeah, asking permission would have been the best thing to do.

[fresnodan]

thanks for the facts.
makes it much, much worse.
Of course, when you consider the number of humans shot with impunity...

[Tulpa]

If no one is home? That's going to be a long process during which the suspect could escape.

[Chris Mallory]

He couldn't have stood outside the fence and waited to see if the kid left? One cop can't keep a yard under watch? What else is he gonna do? Go somewhere and run a speed trap? He gets paid the same no matter what he does. And it might have changed, but the kid still hasn't been caught. So he did escape.

[JD]

If you have a chance to violate a homeowner's 4th Amendment rights by entering their curtilage claiming you're in pursuit of a suspect, you have to act. That homeowner might have a pot plant in the backyard and them you get to wait until they get home and break down their door serving a no-knock warrant as well.

[Barely Contained Rage]

That's going to be a long process during which the suspect could escape.

Let's see - we could either have some teenager on a bench warrant get away and get caught later, or we could have an innocent family's innocent pet dog murdered by cop.

Gee, such a difficult conundrum. If only there were some obvious solution. Like, y'know, if only the cop could have just NOT SHOT THE FUCKING DOG.

I swear to Christ, Tulpa, it really seems like sometimes you take a contrarian position and then stick to it merely to be a contrarian ass.

Face it, the cop's actions are not highly defensible, at least based on the facts as we currently know them. He should not have been in that yard and he should not have PUT HIMSELF in that position where he "found it necessary" to kill someone's dog.

I don't even have a dog, but if I did and came home to find this had happened, I'm thinking I would have an extremely hard time to find anything resembling forgiveness for that cop.

[Gray Ghost]

"So yeah, asking permission would have been the best thing to do."

Or he could have just discharged his weapon in a residential neighborhood. Because spent bullets always stay within your target, and don't go through and through with enough momentum to hurt anyone else, assuming you even hit what you're aiming at. /sarcasm http://www.chron.com/disp/stor.....87475.html

Seriously Tulpa, is there any police use of force you won't excuse?

[Tulpa]

I condemn 95% of the police abuses that Radley posts about, including the other two in this post. This one is an exception.

[robc]

Why is this an exception, do you not support property rights?

[Gray Ghost]

"I condemn 95% of the police abuses that Radley posts about"

Um, no. With the exception of dunphy, and anyone visiting from LGF or Rockwell's site, you are the most reliable defender of LEO use of force on this board, certainly more than 5% of the time. While this board---not Balko or Sullum---could be sometimes characterized as rabidly cop-hating, and thus your views add some much needed balance to the discussion, to say you don't take the police's point of view a lot of the time is inaccurate. Ask around.

Other posters have given numerous options for the officer besides dumping half a mag into/near the dog. I am not as confident as you of someone in a stressful situation shooting in a trailer park and only hitting what they aim at. The concern---downward trajectory or not---of spent rounds hitting something or somebody else outweighs the threat to officer safety, particularly with the other options mentioned.

A repeatedly noted here problem is that, unlike other professionals, LEOs have large legal immunity for their actions, and in accordance with the Iron Lawz, don't feel the necessity to take the due care that other reasonable people would. If I discharge a pistol, even in Texas, at a dog coming towards me, I'm probably going to jail. To not go to jail, I'd better demonstrate that I had no other alternative than to use deadly force, and unlike the officer in this case, the inquiry won't be superficial.

Why do I read Balko, and why do I bother commenting? All it does it raise my blood pressure and the tragedy and futility of it all and waste my time.

[-]

It's Monday, and that's a nice example of Monday morning quarterbacking, Gray Ghost. But be not sad. It's what almost everyone here does when Radley posts a cop-shoots-dog story.

[Cop Dick]

Keep licking me. KEEP LICKING ME!!!

[Dangerman]

This.

[Tulpa]

That I'm more likely to side with the police than any regular poster here does not contradict my condemning the cops' actions 95% of the time.

I don't post on a lot of the "bad" police abuse stories because (a) there are so many of them to keep track of, (b) they reach 200 posts almost immediately so there's no point to posting when I finally arrive, and (c) I'd just be preaching to the choir anyway.

It's pretty rare that I actually defend a cop on these threads. All it takes is once for you to be labeled a "cop fellator" by the bawdy unserious elements.

[Tulpa]

The concern---downward trajectory or not---of spent rounds hitting something or somebody else outweighs the threat to officer safety

Dude, you brought up the spectre of bullets whizzing out of sight and hitting people the shooter couldn't see. This would indeed be a concern for general shooting, but when you're shooting downward, at a nearby object, you'd have to miss by A LOT for there to be any danger of the bullet hitting anything you can't see. Your dismissal of the downward trajectory is unjustified.

[Squeaky]

Tulpa,
A friend of mine had his door bashed in at 5 in the morning. The only reason he is alive today is because he had worked a double and was dead tired....and grabbed the bat beside his bed instead of his shotgun further away in his closet. When he got down to his first floor the cops threw him to the ground and 5 assholes had rifles pointed at his head......and it turned out they had the wrong house (the warrant was correct, the cops just couldn't read).
If these same cops got the address wrong and broke into my house, the cops would have been greeted by my dogs (doing their job!) and any fosters I had at the time since I don't crate.
Would you justify the killing of my dogs and fosters....or would you hold the cops responsible for the slaughter of the pups in my house?
Hey, they were just doing their jobs.... a little mistake here and there is okay...right?

[Tulpa]

And if you're shooting an object that is nearby and lower than you, it's just going to go into the ground if you miss.

[Cop]

Exactly. Which is why we're always justified in shooting any dog. They're always nearby and lower than we are - and believe me, we're pretty low!

[Aresen]

Thanks, Radley. I needed that kick in the balls to wake me up on a Monday morning.

[Mean Boy From Nick]

Grow up. Are you a Disney tween?

[Huh]

?

[Virginia]

At this point, the policeman knocked Aaron off of Parrot. The policeman put his knee in the middle of Parrot's back while pulling Parrot's forelegs behind him, as one would do with an armed criminal. Without waiting to determine whether this technique would calm Parrot, the policeman grabbed Parrot, lifted him off the ground, and brought him to the top of the concrete staircase. He threw Parrot over the banister, down twelve steps, and onto the concrete floor. Then, the policeman stood at the top of the stairs, drew his weapon, and executed Parrot. Aaron cannot recall the number of shots fired.

Utter lack of surprise.

[SIV]

Needs a picture

(from the link)

[SIV]

Somehow I missed that pic is in the post

[Almanian]

I like how they're going directly to the dog kill and skipping the foreplay now. Saves a lot of time. Thanks, SWATzi!

[SugarFree]

Lexington's in the news! Yay! Yay?

Loud noises frighten most dogs. A single round into the dirt probably would have sufficed.

But then he wouldn't have got to feel like a big man.

[R C Dean]

I can only hope that, when this country finally goes full Mad Max, that these cops are just a little too stupid to make the transition to a society where showing up with a badge and a uniform doesn't guarantee cringing obeisance.

[JW]

Humongous: The Final Community Organizer.

[Episiarch]

"A rig big enough to haul that fat tank of gas."

[tafurs delight]

what a puny plan

[Lord Humungus]

Be still my dog of war. I understand your pain.

[Ben]

Being from Lexington, I have known for awhile that this town has always been more "progressive" towards homosexuality. That is why a lot of gays end up hanging out in this town. Especially people from the surrounding parts of Kentucky where it is not so cool to be openly gay.

So if your situation did come to pass, I would imagine a lot of guys would be running around in ass-less chaps in Lexington.

[Ben]

Being from Lexington, I have known for awhile that this town has always been more "progressive" towards homosexuality. That is why a lot of gays end up hanging out in this town. Especially people from the surrounding parts of Kentucky where it is not so cool to be openly gay.

So if your situation did come to pass, I would imagine a lot of guys would be running around in ass-less chaps in Lexington.

[Ben]

Don't know why this double-posted. sorry.

[Russ 2000]

As much as I dislike the CPD, they weren't involved in the sick dog incident. It was Blue Island, IL.

The officer can't be defended in this case. It isn't his job to euthanize a dog, it's his job to return property to its owner when he can. The officer "may" have cared about the dog, but he didn't give a flying fuck about the humans who owned him.

[Pope Jimbo]

Reno 911 has already covered the unilateral euthanization of dogs.

[Skid Marx]

This is tangental because it's about dogs:

About a month ago, my 14-year-old German shepherd totally lost it. I thought she'd stroked out or something. She couldn't sit up and was drooling profusely. Her eyeballs were jerking around independantly, so I took her to the emergency vet with an expectation of putting her down. The emergency vet kedpt her overnight. Turns out it was vestibular desease (a loss of equilibrium) and there was a good chance she would fully recover. But, the only way to be certain was to get an MRI of her brain and do a spinal tap. They do this at the University of Minnesota.

So I picked her up the next morning and went to the office. I called the U of M saying that my dog needed an MRI and they said, "We could get you in at 10:00 am." In other words, an hour.

Do you think the good people of Mass. can get an MRI appointment in an hour? Of course not. Why? Because unlike MassCare, dog care is free market.

[johnl]

And vets have much better bed side manner than physicians, getting their job done while working with patients who speak no English and sometimes bite. It's a shame there is no way to declare yourself your own pet so you can get seen by a vet.

[Skid Marx]

No shit. And this was with state-of-the-art equipment and the neurologist even took the time to show me the 3-D brain scan on a PC. Pointed out all kinds of things in the brain. It was fascinating.

[Tulpa]

It helps that vets' patients have no legal rights, no choice whatsoever in their medical treatment, and can be manhandled in any way the vet pleases as long as the owner is ok with it.

Yeah, declare yourself a pet. Probably not as good an idea as it seems at first blush.

[TrickyVic]

I've seen vestibular syndrome before, It's outright sad when it first kicks in. But they do get better over time but up to a point. In my case, the dog would run a little sideways. But other than that, the dog was fine.

[Skid Marx]

Pretty much back to 100% in just 4 weeks. Of course 100% of 14 years old is still 14 years old. That's why she has a strapping 100+ lb. black Lab/Newfoundland body guard who would gladly kill a cop to save her life. Good boy!

[CoyoteBlue]

Cops just really don't like dogs.
Fucking mailmen have more love for the canines than our jack-booted thugs in uniform.

[Aresen]

Mailmen don't carry guns (or a chip on their shoulder.)

[-]

My brother walked a mailman beat. He carried mace (authorized) and a small revolver (unauthorized) because he grew weary of being attacked by dogs. It may surprise some of you to learn that not all dogs are two-pound fur-balls that you can simply kick over a fence. Try reasoning with a freaked-out pit bull or Rottweiler sometime. Yeah, yeah, I know, your dog wouldn't hurt a mouse.

[Episiarch]

Surprise, surprise--anonypussy sides with authority. Film at 11.

[hmm]

But his brother was a mailman! That had to reason, which might be the problem, with dogs.

How in the fuck do you reason with a dog? Do appeal to its sense of caninanity? Or try to convince it that you aren't the mailman it's looking for?

[Episiarch]

No, his brother "walked a mailman beat". It sounds so cop-like when you phrase it like that. As we all know, delivering mail is like doing a tour in Afghanistan. Damn dogs are a menace! They're terrorists with fur!

[hmm]

Furry insurgents wagging war on our brave mail troops. I stepped on a furry insurgent IED (improvised explosive dogshit) before my morning run. The fucker planted it in the sneakiest of spots.

[Episiarch]

This calls for summary execution! The fucking dogs don't wear uniforms, so they're violating the Geneva Convention.

[Solanum]

wagging war

Intentional or RC's Law?

[hmm]

It's about dogs waging war... What do you think?

[Aresen]

How in the fuck do you reason with a dog?

Well, you imagine he is a cop.

Then add 30 IQ points.

[-]

I pull the strings, and the puppets dance.

[hmm]

Claiming troll victory after getting made fun of is failtastic.

[Episiarch]

Anonypussy has won! We all must bow before its glory, because it says so.

[-]

Thank you. I'd like to thank all the little puppets who made this award possible.

[Puppet]

Look! They're pulling my strings, and this is me fucking you in the ass!

[-]

If that homoerotic fantasy makes you feel batter, go for it. Not that there's anything wrong with homosexuality. Embrace your puppet love!

[Tulpa]

And mailmen walk to the same spot on the property every day, probably knowing the best escape route should a dog come after them by heart.

A little different from having to strategize a way of avoiding injury in a fenced-in area of a property you've never been on before in the 2 seconds you have before the dog is upon you.

[-]

knowing the best escape route

The point being: there shouldn't have to be an escape route. We're trying to have a civilization here. "Attack dogs." What are they for? Hmmm...let me think....

[hmm]

All dogs can be "attack dogs", they're fucking animals with a pack mentality you fucking retard. Hence the reason your whole "my brother hand to reason with dogs" line of thinking was stupid.

You still use the big fat pencil, don't you?

[-]

All dogs can be "attack dogs"

Hmmm so funny! I'm fucking guessing you don't fucking know what fucking "attack dog" means. I suggest you fucking call some fucking dog trainers, you fucking retard.

[hmm (as a cop)]

It means a dog that attacks? So by definition any dog that attacks? Or are you specifically referring to the dogs trained for military and police work? You know, the animals that are generally to expensive for public consumption?

Don't be angry you were out trolled. Jealousy is such an ugly emotion.

[hmm]

I forgot I wasn't a cop anymore. The power went to my head. I even assaulted my cat while acting the role of a cop. I was drunk with power.

[-]

you were out trolled

If you say so. Repeat it enough times and it becomes reality. Better yet, get the peanut gallery to agree with you. There is safety and legitimacy in numbers.

[hmm]

-Repeat argument is pathetic. I said it once.
-Oddly enough the reason commentators are more than willing to eat their own. No one is safe here.

Playing the victim is not very troll like.

[hmm]

Think of the comments section as Thunderdome with more foreign death/heavy metal, feminism, and latent homosexual overtones.

[The Gobbler]

Hello Shit Facktory!

[The Gobbler]

That was at Anonopussy. Fuck these damn nested threads.

[sarcasmic]

All dogs can be "attack dogs"

I've got a pug that would beg to differ.

[Fluffy]

The point being: there shouldn't have to be an escape route. We're trying to have a civilization here. "Attack dogs." What are they for? Hmmm...let me think....

They're for making sure people don't come on my property without my permission. Which is a baseline requirement of any "civilization".

It's like saying, "Assault rifles - what are they for? Hmmmm...."

[Tulpa]

There are circumstances where people can (and should) be legally allowed to enter your property without permission. First responders, airplane crash survivors, shipwreck survivors, people being chased by armed mobs, etc.

[Zeb]

A mailman also has the option to refuse to enter someone's property if it is unsafe. I have no problem with your mailman brother carrying a pistol, but I would expect him to try a bunch of other options before shooting a dog. I don't think anyone here is arguing that there is never any circumstance where it is appropriate to shoot a dog.

[Pip]

My brother walked the Brazilian tranny beat. No different from mailman, really.

[sailshonan]

Radley et al--

A cop in St. Petersburg, FL, shot leashed dogs when they got into a scuffle with an unleashed dog--
Then he/she refused to give his/her name to the owners and threatened them with arrest for asking.
http://www.baynews9.com/articl.....s-two-dogs

[T]

My take on why police officers need more training in how to deal with dogs here.

My take? I have entirely too many guns and a wife that is rabidly, almost psychotically, overprotective of those people and animals she considers hers. The cops shoot one of my dogs and some human is leaving in a body bag. Maybe a cop, maybe the wife, maybe me. But somebody will end up dead over it.

Besides, I have Westies. Any able-bodied adult who thinks one of the happy balls of fluff I have is a threat shouldn't be allowed out in public without a minder, anyway.

[-]

The cops shoot one of my dogs and some human is leaving in a body bag. Maybe a cop, maybe the wife, maybe me

It's good that you have your priorities in order.

[T]

In rank order of preference, it's cop, me, wife. But predicting the outcome of what is sure to be a spectacular clusterfuck is not something I have a high degree of confidence in.

[Episiarch]

T, don't argue with the anonypussy. Don't you understand that your priorities are wrong?

[T]

My priorities are usually wrong. I have layers of management and a wife to inform me just how wrong. But they're mine, and I will cherish them nonetheless.

[-]

Come on, puppet. Is "anonypussy" the best you can do? I would comment on your own anonymity, but that would be superfluous.

[Episiarch]

How's that passive-aggressiveness working out for you, buddy?

[-]

Just fine, thanks!
Dance, puppet, dance!

[Episiarch]

You are so perfect for the internet. It's uncanny.

[Zeb]

The "puppet" bit is pretty funny. Does en-dash guy think he is orchestrating some masterful psychological manipulation of the entire Reason commentariat? I am sue this is exactly what he expected me to write, at just this moment. Clever.

[-]

Pisi, why can't you quit me?

[Mango Punch]

Wait, so cops do slay bitches?

[scottp]

That picture makes me want to kick that cop right in the face.

[mad libertarian guy]

If by kick you mean shoot, then I agree.

[Don't like dogs anyway]

If by cop you mean dog, then I agree too.

[Puppet]

ARF ARF ARF ARF !~!~!~!~!

[Mango Punch]

I was hoping this post would be about Dog, the bounty hunter.

[-]

But nobody would object if the cops shot him.

[John]

"The dog was protecting its property and the officer was protecting his safety." Roberts said Greenleaf "had a legal right to be there because he was pursuing a suspect."

I'm willing to go along with this reasoning, so as long as it would have been acceptable for the dog owner to shoot the cop in defense of his dog.

[scottp]

It's gonna happen sooner or later. Some homeowner is going to freak out upon seeing their dog killed and is going to shoot a cop.
I only hope their aim is true.

[Aresen]

I agree it's gonna happen, but the homeowner will be up on a first-degree homocide rap.

[Upgrayyed]

Like my old man use to say- "I might be in prison, and I might get out someday, but you'll still be dead."

[Don't like dogs anyway]

All that over a dog that costs less than $500?

[Puppet]

Cost is the sole issue?

ARF ARF ARF ARF !~!~!~!~!~!

[Don't like dogs anyway]

For property, yes.

[Upgrayyed]

I could probably get a Mexican baby for a g- what now?

[Don't like dogs anyway]

My browser is at the point where the threaded comments flatten, so I can't tell if you're trolling me or the puppet. I'll bite.

Anyway, last I checked, a human baby wasn't considered property in America.

Troll fail.

[Squeaky]

How about a therapy or search and rescue dog that costs over $10 thousand ....if a cop kills them are they no longer worth more than $500.
How about a champion show dog that is worth $10 grand? If they cops kill it is it no longer worth $10 grand?

[Don't like dogs anyway]

If your seeing-eye dog so much as yelps at an intruder, you have a dog that failed its classes. That aside, see my post way below about police dogs being (very expensive) property. Mutts, purebreeds, working dogs like sheepdogs, and highly trained animals like seeing eye dogs and police dogs all have their prices. I'm guessing that the dog that "Upgrayyed" is ready to kill people over is at the low end of that range.

[Nipplemancer]

I'll donate whatever I can to his or her defense fund, hell I'd sell a kidney if the government would let me.

[Zach]

That is basically how Ruby Ridge started. Marshalls shot their dog and they shot one of the Marshalls. After that the shit hit the fan.

[Tulpa]

Defending life > defending property.

Also, a human life is worth more than a dog's.

[Spencer Smith]

But is human discomfort worth more than a dog's life? Or the discomfort of the dog's owners?

The policeman's life wasn't at stake- only the threat of possible injury- maybe.

[Tulpa]

Discomfort? Understate much?

[Spencer Smith]

A bite wound? Is this some type of preemptive attack on the cop's part? Discomfort, yes. Not loss of life.

[Chris Mallory]

It was reported that the "bite" didn't even break the skin.

Tulpa also makes the assumption that a cop is human.

[Warty]

Not a cop's. And certainly not a cop-fellating dickhead's.

[Fluffy]

Whose life and whose property?

Don't take this the wrong way, but my property is in fact worth more than your life.

[Mango Punch]

Do you sew your own skin masks, or does the gimp help?

[T]

Deadly force is legal to protect property in my state, Tulpa. If I can shoot somebody over a car stereo, I can damn sure shoot somebody over my dog.

"Cop" has no more meaning to me in this regard than "left-handed Anabaptist" does.

[Tulpa]

Your car stereo probably doesn't attack people.

Seriously? So if you invite someone over for a barbecue and your dog attacks them, you can legally shoot that person if they try to defend themselves against your "property"?

How about if your parking brake fails uphill from a girl scout picnic? Are you saying you can shoot me if I try to stop your vehicle in a way that damages it?

[Tom]

a human life is worth more than a dog's

Most "human" life is worth less to me than a plate of spaghetti, let alone the life of a dog. But it's adorable how you state your arbitrary assertion as if it were a universal truth.

[Barely Contained Rage]

a human life is worth more than a dog's.

I flatly reject your proposition as stated. It depends entirely on the human and the dog being compared.

[Paris Hilton's Pocket Dog]

You love me? You really love me?

[croaker]

Someone who trespasses on my property and shoots my pet has given me prima face evidence that they are willing to shoot me with impunity. It doesn't matter whatever government-issued costume jewelery they own. It's self defense and laudable homicide.

[Tulpa]

Uh, no. They have given evidence that they will shoot you if you charge them and start ripping open their flesh.

[rac]

Read that story this a.m. Won't let my wife read it, who knows the combination to my gun safe, and like T's wife, might go out an find that DC cop.

Having sid that, I wasn't there. The story in WP indicates there was a dog fight that started the whole thing. And, while the "owner", (who was actually keeping the dog for some organization until it could be adopted), said it was a Sharpei "mix" it looked an awful lot like a pit bull mix. Now, I'm not saying pit bulls are all bad, but when they get into fights, they can be rather frightening. So, shooting the dog may not have been necessary, and I really don't like cops (most of them), but to repeat myself, I wasn't there.

[Mister DNA]

Isn't it obligatory for the comments in a "Cops vs. Dogs" post to contain a link to "Monkeys vs. Donkeys"?

[hmm]

Jesus Christ. There were at least three officers there for the DC shooting. People wonder why I hold them all accountable as useless fucking scum.

[-]

Nah, nobody wonders. Nobody cares.

[Puppet]

The same is true for thee, A. Nony Mouse.

ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF !~!~!~!~!~!

[-]

And yet you reply anyway. Because you don't care!

Arf arf! That's funny every time!

Feeeed meeeee!

[Warty]

In the cop's defense, maybe he was trying to shoot the loathsome scumfuck Ravens fan and accidentally murdered the poor doggie.

[Arf]

I'm actually surprised the departments defend these guys. Even people who don't care about their fellow human beings start to foam at the mouth a little when you talk about hurting dogs. Talk about bad P.R.

[croaker]

Michael Vick got jail time. These cops will get a medal.

Fuckers need killing.

[R C Dean]

The cops shoot one of my dogs and some human is leaving in a body bag. Maybe a cop, maybe the wife, maybe me

Same here. Since any ruckus around the house results in me holding some sort of firearm, the sound of my dog barking, followed by a gunshot, is going to get an armed response.

"Why, no, your honor, I never heard anybody announce "Police". I am hard of hearing, you know."

"Your honor, I noticed the cop car in the driveway right after I put 15 .45 caliber rounds into the person standing over my dead dog holding a gun. I felt real bad about it, but it was too late."

[sarcasmic]

Like you'd get a chance to talk to a judge.

The angry cops responding to "officer down" would have killed you on the spot.

[Zeb]

I'd say you would have some chance. Ryan Fredericks is alive, at least.

[R C Dean]

And, can I say that as the owner, over the years, of several pit bulls:

No human being is capable of controlling an angry pit bull without special tools. There is no way that cop in the picture could get an angry pit bull on the ground with his bare hands, or even keep on the ground by kneeling on him. That dog, I guarantee you, was not a threat to anyone.

[Eric S.]

Confused by your statement. Are you trying to say that dog wansn't a pit bull?

In any event, when pitbulls are involved, all bets are off. Not particularly upset by this incident.

[Fluffy]

What he's saying is that the fact that the cop could kneel on the dog is good evidence it wasn't an angry pit bull. Because an angry pit bull wouldn't stand for that shit.

If you're holding Chuck Norris on the ground with your knee in his back, that pretty much proves Chuck's not angry at you.

[Clich? Bandit]

Dear god you opened the GATE!

Now it is all over. I will start.

Chuck Norris divides by zero

[Gray Ghost]

Think what he's saying is that:
a man can't control an angry pit bull, the officer was controlling the pit bull in D.C.,
ergo, the pit bull wasn't angry.

If the pit bull wasn't angry, no need to shoot it. (in an environment packed with people and hard surfaces for ricochets.) A need to contact the owner, and get his info to pay for the poodle's damage (if any) and ask him to leave the area, sure. But no need to immediately shoot someone's dog.

Is it that we hear more about LEOs using their firearms, and thus overestimated how often they use them? Because growing up in a cop's household, it used to be a pretty damn big deal whenever an officer discharged his weapon. Mine never did, in 30+ years of service. To my knowledge, which may be lacking, none of his co-workers did either. It was such a big deal to draw, much less shoot, that I can't see a cop back then shooting a dog at the local fair. What the hell happened?

[Fluffy]

It became generally known among LEO's that you can shoot a dog with impunity.

This means that every LEO who harbors a desire to finally get to use his weapon [and that's a lot of them, weepy cop bullshit to the contrary notwithstanding] knows that he can shoot a dog and not get in trouble.

If we told cops that they could shoot Jews and always get away with it, there would "all of a sudden" be a lot of sightings by cops of dangerous Jews in yards and alleys and such. That's how it has always happened in virtually every society since the function of police officer was invented.

[sarcasmic]

"What the hell happened?"

Serve and Protect has been replaced with Harass and Intimidate.

Everyone I know who sought out that job did so because they wanted to get into fights, and if they're really lucky to get the chance to kill someone.

When they talk about "work" it's all about busting heads, slapping people with fines, and otherwise getting a kick out of ruining peoples' lives.

I only show respect to police because I know that any hint of disrespect will result in a fine or a trip to the hospital.

[Citizen Nothing]

Another cop's son here. My dad, too, in 25 years on the streets never discharged his weapon.

[Aresen]

"Never discharged his weapon"

So, you were adopted?

😛

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Citizen Nothing]

That particular discharge, (and my subsequent birth), happened before he became a cop. So there's that.

[R C Dean]

In any event, when pitbulls are involved, all bets are off. Not particularly upset by this incident.

Fuck you, Eric S.

[Eric S.]

You know what would be nice? A Reason series of "Isolated Incidents" chronicling people who get mauled by pitbulls.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

when pitbulls are involved, all bets are off.

Define "pitbull."

There is no such breed. There are various terriers that people call "pitbulls" because they "look like" what people think of as "pitbulls". And how they react depends a lot on how they have been raised.

Even if the dog was a breed that resembles a "pitbull" does not mean the cop gets to blow it away.

[Michael Vick]

Where do I sign up to be a cop?

[Skid Marx]

Fuck you.

He played a hell of a game yesterday. Eagles would have won if they'd have started him.

I am a dog lover, second to none. What Vick did a few years back was horrific. But he paid a price for it. He lost a multi-million dollar job, millions in product endorsements, filed for bankruptcy, and went to prison for a while. As a libertarian, I figure he now deserves a second chance the same as anyone else.

[T]

And the rest of us can continue to think he's a piece of shit and not have anything to do with him. That work for you, or is that unlibertarian of me?

[Gray Ghost]

Well, if they'd announced they were going to start him, Green Bay might have bothered to come up with a defensive game plan for him. Ridiculous lack of adjustment by their D coordinator.

As for whether he should be in the NFL, he did his time, and should be allowed to play. Which doesn't prevent me from wishing that what happened to Leonard Weaver's knee, happened to Vick's instead. Evidently Vick's now running his mouth, saying the Eagles would have won if he started, etc... http://www.pressofatlanticcity.....6b528.html

What a thorough shitbag.

[hmm (as a cop)]

Libertarian police.

I'm going to need your card sir.

"DOG!!!!"
"Dispatch...10-91b..."
*bang*
"uhhhh 10-91c..."
"make that a 10-91d."

Odd how 10-91 follows that order.
*puts on conspiracy hat*

[Skid Marx]

Suit yourself, T.

[hmm (as a cop)]

Fuck Vick. He's just like all the other ghetto hood rats that fight dogs.

[R C Dean]

I happen to be one of those who wish Michael Vick had been banned for life from the NFL.

There are hundreds, nay, thousands of jobs in this country for which a felony conviction is an absolute bar. The only reason I want to see Michael Vick on the field is that when he's not, he can't suffer a debilitating injury.

[-]

You're a humanitarian, then. Have you ever eaten pork? They don't tickle those pigs to death.

[hmm]

Keep that strawman away from fire. I hear they are highly combustible and may explode in your face.

[Puppet]

I'm assuming that little hyphen screen name (which I'm guessing you think is clever and cute) represents your asshole sideways. If so, I respectfully suggest you insert your entire computer in it. Sideways.

ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF !~!~!~!~!~!

[-]

No more clever and cute than all the other clever and cute pseudonyms the puppets use.

[Tulpa]

OK, so this is my problem with having attack dogs on your property that are actually going to harm intruders (rather than just alerting neighbors and such by barking).

Let's say you have a heart attack or something and manage to call 911 before going unconscious. When the paramedics show up, they're going to have to bust into your property in a manner that your dog will not be able to distinguish from a criminal trespass, so they're going to get attacked for the sin of responding to a medical emergency.

It's the same reason you're not supposed to have land mines or booby traps on your property...there are situations under which you have to permit strangers unsupervised access to your property.

[-]

Why does Tulpa hate the harmless attack dogs?

[JW]

Show us on the doll where the big doggie touched you.

[hmm]

Cops come shoot the dog if it is life threatening and animal control can't make it. I've seen it done. I've also wrestled with a giant pissed off poodle thing while a medic attended to a patient. Oddly enough both dog and I survived and all I get as a nice scratch and bump on my melon from falling over.

Your hypothetical happens in every major city and is dealt with without shooting the dog in many occasions. Sometimes it is unavoidable.

[hmm]

all I got was a...

fuck me, the stupid is getting out today.

[robc]

Barking and cornering != attack dog.

[Warty]

You're afraid of dogs because you're a colossal pussy, so you don't care if cops shoot them. Got it.

[-]

Name-calling = reason. Got it.

[Warty]

Fuck you, anono-pussy. Pick a name or at least post something worthwhile every now and then.

[-]

anono-pussy

So "Warty" is your real name?

[Tulpa]

Attempting to reason with Warty and Episiarch is roughly equivalent to panning for gold in your toilet.

[Episiarch]

Get your own name for the anonypussy, Warty! It was passive-aggressive against me before you!

[Warty]

Silence, dickweed. "Anono-pussy" is clearly a different name than "anonypussy". Besides, fuck that guy.

So "Warty" is your real name?

Think a little harder, anono-pussy.

[The Gobbler]

Gold, Warty. Gold!

[-]

Yup. Fool's gold.

[hmm]

-|9.13.10 @ 2:30PM|#
All dogs can be "attack dogs"

Hmmm so funny! I'm fucking guessing you don't fucking know what fucking "attack dog" means. I suggest you fucking call some fucking dog trainers, you fucking retard.

Consistency is the hallmark of a good troll.

You can write that down with your crayon. I suggest the red one so you don't forget.

[-]

Arf?

[Coeus]

It's the constant use of the -ing form that I find so moronic. Fuck is a beautiful and diverse word, with many forms and applications. Watch Rocco. This is how it's done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDQCaGlqLFY

[R C Dean]

OK, so this is my problem with having attack dogs on your property

This might be relevant if any of the dogs Balko wrote about were "attack" dogs.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

OK, so this is my problem with having attack dogs on your property that are actually going to harm intruders (rather than just alerting neighbors and such by barking).

Here's my problem with your "problem": it's stupid.

As long as what I have on my property does not interfere with your quiet enjoyment of your property, it's NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

And my 12-guage is going to "harm" intruders a hell of a lot more than any "attack dog" will.

But if I choose to keep "attack dogs" on my property, then as long as they don't bark all damn day and annoy the piss out of my neighbors, I fail to see how you can make that YOUR "problem." The reason I have them is precisely "to harm intruders."

If that means the am-boo-lance and the po-lice can't come and help me when I've fallen and can't get up, then perhaps I have made a strategic error in my choice of animal, eh?

[Tulpa]

And my 12-guage is going to "harm" intruders a hell of a lot more than any "attack dog" will.

So much for guns don't kill people, eh?

Your 12 gauge only harms someone when you choose to harm them. And I guarantee if you point a 12 gauge at a cop you're going to wind up like that dog.

[JW]

My favorite, from the WaPo article on the DC dog shooting:

The police account also has witness support.

Tony De Pass, 67, a former D.C. police officer who lives in Northwest, said that the dog was charging directly at him when Fike drew his gun and fired and that "if the officer hadn't shot the dog, the dog would have got one of us, either me or the officer."

Oh, they just happened to have an ex-cop at the scene and whom the dog was running right at him. Or it could be a horribly written sentence, and the dog was charging the cop, which of, course, runs counter to the other witnesses.

Either way, how convenient.

[T]

Wait, Uncle Jimbo and Ned were retired cops? It explains so much!

[hmm]

Or, pissing off a pitbull results in a pissed off pitbull. From other witnesses the dog was subdued which means the cop was the aggressor if those witnesses are to be believed.

So ya, tossing a pit around putting your knee in it's chest, holding it's head down, that's gonna make it mad as hell and it's going to fight.

Hell, I'd piss me off and ready to fight.

[hmm]

It'd piss me off. Multitasking is killing me today.

[SugarFree]

If even the most minor threat can be argued to be legitimately met with a bullet, why do cops even carry mace, batons, or tasers? Shoot away, LEOs! Your useful idiots will rush to your defense as always.

[Episiarch]

Mace, batons, and tasers are for torture, not for killing. See, you just don't get it.

[SugarFree]

Why torture when you can kill with impunity? Why have hamburger when you've got a steak?

[hmm]

Because sometimes that hamburger satisfies that oh so annoying urge.

[Zeb]

And killing is so often over all too quickly.

[Hugh Akston]

You just don't get it Sugarfree. Murder is better than torture, but torture is pretty good too. And being in authority means not having to make tough choices.

That's why Obama has flying killer robots and enhanced interrogation techniques; aged prime rib and angus burgers for dinner; blowjobs from Pauly Krugnuts and the Elena Kagan sex tape.

[SugarFree]

Ah, I think I see now. It's not a choice between hamburger or steak, but rather the hubris to put a burger on a steak and eat them both on a bun.

But it's just a few bad apples, so there no need to worry.

[hmm]

Apples go quite well with hamburger and steak. Apple wood smoked steak and hamburger is good too.

[Warty]

Last night, I made cheeseburgers topped with smoked brisket. It was the right choice.

[?]

That's kind of gay.

[hmm]

See Thunderdome reference.

[?]

Like I said. Gay.

[Pip]

WHERE THE FUCK IS DUNPHY???

[T]

Out dealing with the scourge of America's streets, dogs.

[hmm]

Not training to deal with situations like the above.

[?]

Not defrauding his employer while wasting company time on a blog?

[hmm]

You assume I'm at my work? How narrow of you.

You know the rule about assumptions.

[?]

You're right. The majority of people who comment here on weekdays are self-employed, wasting their own time.

[hmm]

If utility is derived by the individual the time is not wasted.

[Episiarch]

Oh anonypussy, why do you confuse us with the question mark? It's almost like there's two of you.

[Warty]

Are we sure this our anono-pussy? Its tone seems slightly different to me.

[Solanum]

It's okay. He poured the milk. It's over."

I smiled. "It's over for today, Otis. But we cannot be sure that the transmissions have ceased. There could be more."

Otis was silent. I opened the door to find him back behind the counter.

"Finding everything okay?" he asked.

"Sure, I just needed to take a shit," I told him.

The tall man was gone. I looked down at my thumb. It had stopped bleeding.

[Warty]

Revogalize your tyrnical kilnbrators, Solanum. I'm not catching a Dan T feeling here.

[Warty]

Revogalize your tyrnical kilnbrators, Solanum. I'm not catching a Dan T feeling here.

[Warty]

Fuck you, server.

[bigbigslacker]

Salaried. I can waste all the time here I want. I'll pay the price in the evening when everyone else is driving home.

[Gray Ghost]

It was much better when everyone was feeding recipes to the troll. Got some good ones out of that.

[hmm]

True, but some of us can't resist. By some I mean me.

[?]

Recipes? That's not gay.

[hmm]

derived by the action for the individual...

proofreading is for the weak.

[TrickyVic]

But no one here is kidding themselves about what would happen if you shot a police dog charging at you. Right?

I can understand the cops self defense argument. But that arguement should apply to everyone, not just cops. I'm not judging the cop's action either way. Just sayin.

[-]

Police dogs are just dogs. Giving them the same rights as human cops is idiotic.

[Don't like dogs anyway]

I feel a little dirty agreeing with the em dash troll, but I agree. A police dog is an expensive asset, but it is still the property of the police department. Killing a police dog is property destruction. You should have to pay to replace one, and that should go for the cops too.

[-]

It's a hyphen. And I get a little ill when I see all the cops in the city having a ceremonial parade/funeral for a friggin' dog whenever one gets killed "on duty." They even retire its badge! I am not making this up.

[Tulpa]

Depends on whether the police dog was charging you because you were doing something illegal.

If not, then you shouldn't have to pay to replace it. The police should control their dogs like every other private owner.

[Tulpa]

I was watching a video the other day where police caught a suspect, brought him down to the ground and were about to cuff him, and then their dog went berserk and started just ripping open his leg. Literally, not just biting, but swinging its head back and forth like it was trying to kill a rat.

So the suspect starts screaming in pain, there's blood everywhere, and the one cop starts shouting at the suspect to hold still so he can cuff him. Meanwhile another cop was trying to coax the dog off of the guy's leg.

Watching this, I was thinking, shouldn't the cops shoot the dog if a dog's life is worth less than human bodily integrity? But we know how that works.

[-]

I saw the same thing on one of the cop shows. Cops had the perp down, the cop dog was chewing on his leg, and for some reason the perp was yelling and complaining about having his leg chewed on by a vicious dog. The cops kept saying, "Stop struggling!" while allowing the dog to savor the juicy subtleties of leg-of-perp. It made me sick. A supervisor noted, on-camera, that perhaps the dog had used excessive force. Nobody questioned whose life was more valuable. It was cop (albeit four-legged and carnivorous) vs. perp. Makes you wonder if the pants-wetters here could ever justify shooting a cop dog if it attacked them, or any dog, for that matter. Or maybe it's the end of the world only when cops shoot dogs.

[alltoosad]

You know, I remember being taught as a child that the dogs that bark are not the ones you have to be afraid of . . . unfortunately, cops seem to think that a barking dog requires a bullet. Happened to our landlord's old, gentle lab who used to walk me and my husband home (we parked our car at the landlord's and walked down the street to our apartment at his other property). Cop was chasing someone, the old dog (who was terribly arthritic and, by that point, was tied to a porch rail) barked at the cop as he entered the yard during the chase, the cop shot the tied-up dog. So much for our city's "finest" - didn't that used to mean having enough bravery not to shoot first?

[Eric]

Is this him -- he hunts AND is into animal welfare. THAT'S a joke!

http://www.facebook.com/profil.....ref=search

[randallsalt]

At least the cops aren't sacrificing them as part of some voodoo ritual: http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/.....-to-death/

Because that's much more heartless than killing them for no reason and running away... not...

[YESnack]

To mans best friend; I wrote a song about how a dog serendipitously saved my life by attacking me as a child. "Thank You Mean Ole Dog"
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/williamavery2

[YESnack]

To mans best friend; I wrote a song about how a dog serendipitously saved my life by attacking me as a child. "Thank You Mean Ole Dog"
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/williamavery2

[YESnack]

To mans best friend; I wrote a song about how a dog serendipitously saved my life by attacking me as a child. "Thank You Mean Ole Dog"

[Bob]

Dogs and people are not the same

[Aaron]

This is a waste and a tragedy. I don't know all the facts, I hope that the cops made the correct choice but from reading this it doesn't seem like it.
training a puppy

[????? ??????]

Thanks