Immigration

Gary Johnson's Differentiation

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Big hands!

The Santa Fe New Mexican catches up with the whispered 2012 presidential candidate:

[Johnson] said he's trying to "give a voice" to Republicans who disagree with conventional GOP thinking on several issues. Johnson said he is "pretty much on the same page" with most frequently mentioned 2012 GOP candidates when it comes to government spending.

"But when you listen to the rhetoric they all seem to want to stay engaged on the war on terror at an unlimited cost and they're all now talking about securing the borders when they don't seem to have any idea how much that would actually cost," he said. "Although the rhetoric sounds good, the reality of what they're saying really isn't going to reduce spending."

The article is mostly about the former border state governor's views on immigration policy:

These are A-10s, btw

"Secure our borders?" Johnson asked rhetorically. "What's the cost? What's the benefit? … I just don't think it's practical to put the National Guard arm-in-arm across 1,600 miles of border." […]

Johnson said there were more illegal immigrants in the U.S. back when he was governor. "When I was governor, I asked for a cost-benefits analysis. Are we paying out more than we're getting in, given the fact that (immigrants) do pay taxes — income tax, Social Security, Medicare. Immigrants who have used false documents to get work don't collect tax refunds, Johnson said. His administration determined that the state got more tax revenue from illegal immigrants than the state was paying out in benefits.

Johnson said he doesn't like the harsh tone he's heard in the immigration debate. "At an event the other night and some guy says, 'What we need are A-10s flying low across the border … guns blazing.'" Johnson said. "I said, 'Really? You want to kill the immigrants? … We are on different pages here. We really have a serious disagreement about this.'" But a couple of minutes later, Johnson said, the man apologized and said he didn't mean what he said. He said such emotional reactions to the problem "have to do with the notion that (immigrants) are taking away jobs from U.S. citizens."

Link via Johnson's Twitter feed. Reason on Gary Johnson here.

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  1. John, if you are still reading threads today, what did you think of Gary Johnson’s career, the pictured former San Diego Charger?

  2. If there were any justice in the world, GJ would be inaugurated in January 2013. So yeah, he’s screwed.

    1. Yeah the more I read about him the more I think “Dear God, we really really need this guy in the White House.”

  3. Gov. Johnson will never placate the SoCons who rule the GOP – much less the minority Neo-Cons who hooted Ron Paul out of the debates for his foreign policy realism.

    The Huckerbee is the real front end loader fave – he has carefully crafted out the Felon Close Family vote of 4-6 million by offering pardons to cop-killers.

    My Intrade money is on the Huckster – a true coalition conservative Primitive Baptist.

    1. I didn’t know that you enjoyed fellating the piggies.

      1. now libertymike, that seems out of character for you.

        If by “pigs” you mean cops – you won’t find a greater supporter of the ACLU and the 4th than me… my “church” – and I am a secularist to boot.

        I am only anticipating wingnut action in the trading markets.

        Reid will overcome the nuthouse mouse Angle. Ohio will elect a Dem in the Senate.

        Indiana, Delaware, and North Dakota (Dorgan) will turn for the GOP.

        Net gain = GOP + 2.

        1. Just having some fun.

          You know, I like you and will stick up for you when I perceive too many others are picking on you. If its Tulpa picking on you, I’ll jump right in to the fray.

          1. The only problem is that Tupla doesn’t have an obvious tag-team partner.

            C’mon, no holds barred, libertarian wrestle-fest. You know you want in Tupla.

            1. (The other problem being that EVEERYONE is oging to want to wrestle the Chony/DanT team.)

              1. Combined they are lighter weights than Andy Kaufman.

            2. I loom large.

        2. “Ohio will elect a Dem in the Senate”

          That’s not a lock either. It’s been neck to neck.

      2. Maybe he should advocate for their murder, like you did in the Cory Maye thread, you degenerate douchebag.

    2. Wait shrike, I thought you hated Ron Paul 2.

  4. Ron Paul had the newsletters; Mark Sanford caught a bad case of loco panochita. Any guesses what takes down the latest best hope of the Libertarian Republicans?

    1. scaling back the drug war.

      and admitting failure in Iraq & Afghanistan.

      Doomed i say

    2. he privatized prisons though while he was governor, so hopefully there was nothing shady going on, which im pretty sure nothing was, but who knows

    3. Johnson may have cheated on his wife too. But not in an insanely stupid way, just your run of the mill cheating (assuming he didnt wait for the divorce papers to dry). And he and his wife divorced and she is now dead, so really, whose going to bring it up?

  5. A-10s?

    Otherwise known as a Warthog

    1. The main gun on that fucker makes a crazy sound. I can proudly look back on my military career and say I’ve gotten to hear one (in a training environment, though).

      1. The Warthog is one bad-ass killing machine.

      2. I know a former pilot of the A-10 who said that not only does that gun make strange sounds, but you can actually feel the plane slow down from the recoil.

        If you’ve never seen one, there is one at the Pima A&S Museum in Tucson. It was much bigger that I realized.

    2. My favorite aircraft in the US arsenal. It’s ugliness gave it the nickname warthog (user coined,officially it’s a Thunderbolt), it’s survivable and deadly as hell in its ground attack role. We built a fuckin’ winner with that one.

      1. Yeah, I don’t get a hard-on for most military gear, but that plane holds a special place in my heart.

        If only I had perfect vision…

      2. Which those fucking fighter jocks in the Air Force have been trying get rid of ever since. (Sometimes I wonder if making the AF a separate service was the right move.)

        1. They should just give the A-10s to the Army, who would love to have them. (But that would violate the 1947[?] agreement between the services: the Army gave up fixed-wing fighting aircraft, IIRC.)

          The plane was literally designed around that gun, by the way.

      3. I built 3 of those A-10’s, in 1/40th (or was it 1/32nd?) scale.

        They’re just ripe for a sexy paintjob. Excellent fuselage design…as far as paintjobs go, i can’t vouch for the combat effectiveness.

    3. Those are actually Rattlers. Cobra Commander ordered hundreds of them to hunt down Duke and Scarlet.

  6. I think Johnson is misstating the “A-10” solution. I’ve heard that repeatedly directly from people and on some other internet locations I frequent. The A-10s usually come up in response to any reports/claims of armed border crossings by drug traffickers or Mexican military.

    1. I do not thinks so. I hard similar conservative talk radio listening hicks spout the same thing. It all from emotion not the brain.

      1. I’ve heard “mine the border” proposed but the A-10s usually come into the “conversation” when armed incursions are mentioned. I could be wrong, but it seems informal discussion of immigration policy quickly escalates from “illegals” using a WIC voucher and EBT card for their anchor babies down at the local grocery store to paramilitary Zetas crossing the border firing machine guns. Living in GA (most Mexicans in a non-border State!) the former is a more common first-hand experience;)

        1. Doesnt GA border Portugal or something? I mean, the river is wide, but people have crossed it. Ummm…what is across from Savannah (mapping US v Europe doesnt work in my mind).

          1. I was close….Morocco. Georgia borders Morocco.

            Wait…eyeballing it, looks like Madiera is before Morocco, which is part of Portugal!!!! I was right!

            1. From a quick google search, looks like portuguese immigrants are responsible for Brunswick GA being the shrimp capital of the world. They took are jerbs!

  7. Johnson/Christie 2012

    1. I would heartily support that ticket.

      Chance = .00125%

      1. Chance = .00125%

        Well, if we could convince all our family and friends, FINALLY, that voting for teamred or team blue is going to screw them either way…..then MAYBE we could up the chances on that ticket.

        Which team are you planning to vote for Shrike? I mean, you lose either way , but I’m sure you must still care about your team winning, right?

        1. honest question – honest answer (last tonight).

          They have to actually RUN first. Low chance there. Then they have to win a primary -(even lower) – then they have to somehow run TOGETHER… low chance again. — and I am not sure Christie would take the down ticket…….

          I like both. I only HATE…. SoCons!!!!!! So I like both these guys…

          I’m out now. Its been real.

      2. That’s the chance of them being the ticket. Divide by 1000 to get the chance of them winning.

  8. Johnson said there were more illegal immigrants in the U.S. back when he was governor. “When I was governor, I asked for a cost-benefits analysis. Are we paying out more than we’re getting in, given the fact that (immigrants) do pay taxes ? income tax, Social Security, Medicare. Immigrants who have used false documents to get work don’t collect tax refunds, Johnson said. His administration determined that the state got more tax revenue from illegal immigrants than the state was paying out in benefits.

    And since the state of New Mexico doesn’t collect the 15.3% FICA levy (illegals don’t get to collect on social security) you can bet the feds are doing even better.

    That won’t stop the anti immmigration folks from complaining about all the expenses these working folks allegedly cost us. Not letting facts get in the way of an emotional appeal is a time honored American political strategy.

    I’ve little faith that Obama can do anything like getting sensible immigration reform enacted, but if he does I’ll be first in line to give him credit for it.

    1. He’s working on a national ID card and Republican xenophobes will not only play into it, they will champion it.

      So the story will go that then the authorities will be able to separate the natural born from the illegals. Illegals have already committed a crime by simply being illegal, ergo they are criminals and the GOP is a Law & Order party so they’ll know what to do.

      Meanwhile, Obama and his ilk are plotting on how to deliver the compromise for an ‘amnesty’ that will deliver votes.

      As I pointed out in another post, some countries use national ID cards to enforce ‘forced’ suffrage. It is a black-belt-karate-kick-ass form of motor-voter.

      Like Gary Johnson says: take the government out of policing who gets in and who doesn’t; the economy itself does a better job.

      And the terrorist argument is the lamest of all. It distracts the ‘intellegence community’ from being intelligent and instead watering it down to worrying if some poor down-and-out fuck is going to overstay his visa for economic reasons.

      1. He’s working on a national ID card and Republican xenophobes will not only play into it, they will champion it.

        The only GOP approval of National ID cards has been from the pro-amnesty group.

        1. hello! that is the ‘compromise’ I stated.

          1. by “Republican xenophobes” I assumed you meant the overwhelming majority of anti-amnesty ones.

            1. Fair enough. I am jumping to the conclusion that the anti-amnesty will eventually ‘forgive’ and go along with national ID. I hope that by calling me out on this that you have more of a ground pulse of what is going on.

              My pulse is out of the Tea Party and with rank-n-file Republicans and hence I have such a pessimist view.

              1. I get the impression Tea Partiers equate National ID with socialist tyranny and evangelicals think it is the Mark of the Beast. I’d expect the ID support from the Lindsay Graham/David Brooks types.

                1. Wow. I can see how lazy I was in putting out that last comment. I meant that I don’t follow the Tea Party closely NOR Republicans.

              2. Well I’m a whacked out ancap. But, I am both anti-amnesty and anti national ID.

    2. Yeah, the multiple border towns that are going bankrupt because of illegal immigrants, the border town hospitals that are going bankrupt because they can’t deny service to illegal immigrants who never pay, the billions of dollars a year that illegal immigrants cost states ($5 Billion in California alone, and please don’t claim the revenues from illegals makes up for that) the multiple studies done that have proven conclusively that illegal immigrants drive down wages, the multiple studies that show increased crime rates that come with increased illegal immigration? None of that shit means anything. It’s all just made up, right? Give me a fucking break. For someone who harps on about facts, you sure seem to fucking ignore a lot of them.

      1. …the border town hospitals that are going bankrupt because they can’t deny service to illegal immigrants who never pay…

        Name one.

        the billions of dollars a year that illegal immigrants cost states ($5 Billion in California alone, and please don’t claim the revenues from illegals makes up for that)

        I can’t even claim that about a large majority of citizens!

        the multiple studies done that have proven conclusively that illegal immigrants drive down wages

        Name two.

        1. Name one? How about five? Of course the article doesn’t mention illegals, but it’s the Times and that would not be PC.

          1. How about five? Of course the article doesn’t mention illegals…

            You misspelled “zero”.

            1. Zero? Did you even read the article?

              1. What part of illegal don’t you understand?

                1. What part of the article don’t you understand? LA with it’s vast numbers of illegals is losing emergency rooms and hospitals because a huge percentage of the people who use them are illegals who can’t or don’t pay. The stress of illegals on health care is un-PC (and un-libertarian) to talk about, but it’s well-established.

                  1. I asked a simple question. Over the last few years I have asked it here a couple times before. I have never gotten it answered. It used to surprise me that no one could find a single example. It doesn’t any more.

                    In any event, hospitals in California have recently been in more jeopardy due to state regulations on nursing ratios (as noted in the article) and earthquake retrofitting than uncompensated care.

                  2. Hospitals arent going bankrupt due to illegals. They are going bankrupt due to laws preventing them from turning people away who cant pay.

      2. Big difference between someone who is jumping a border (and most border towns give an x-mile limit to locals across the border) to gain services and a long-voyage immigrant looking for work. Seems to me like you should be complaining about Welfare and how it is meted out.

        1. What, we’re not allowed to complain about both welfare and illegal immigration?

          1. That would make you a DOUBLE racist!

          2. Of course, you’re allowed. I just most likely will not agree.

  9. The truth is that the GOP spent so much effort over the last 10 years creating the boogeymen of Immigration, Gay Marriage, and Appeasing the Terrorists (e.g. any sane approach to the GWOT) that any politician trying to walk back irrational fears about these things will be burned at the stake. Its a monster of the mainstream GOP’s own making. While I think someone who gets elected might *try* to do something more practical about these things (say, versus a Wall Across the Border), I don’t think they can or will successfully campaign on these issues. I’m sure even many hardline GOP types will admit in private that the difference between their rhetoric and their actual policy goals have gotten pretty wide, I think they’d also say it would be suicide to say “illegals should be assimilated, gays can have equal rights as anyone else, and fighting terrorism should be done with more of a law enforcement model”

    Seriously. There’s the ‘pantomime’ politics, and then the real world. They will never give up the pantomime because there’s too large of a constituency thats been trained to be rabidly irrational about these issues.

    Just my .02

    1. They feed the talking points to the Sean Hannity’s and Mark Levin’s of the world, who then repeat them endlessly to drum up the base. Then they can’t go back on it because it’s gospel now.

      Well, fuck them. They made their bed, they can lie in it.

      1. You ever notice how libertarians feel they are the only ones who are making up their own minds on issues, whereas everyone else is just a mindless fucking drone? Christ, the arrogance drips from the fucking page.

        1. Larger bases = more morons in the base. Duh.

        2. You are a mindless fucking drone. The truth hurts, doesn’t it.

        3. If you want to bring up a specific issue, we’d be happy to school you on it. Otw, you are being arrogant, and you are wrong too. So go fuck youtself.

        4. It’s called consistency.

    2. Yeah, because the law enforcement model of combatting terrorism has been so fucking successful in the past, hasn’t it?

      1. Ya, cuz the whack-a-mole military nation builder approach is a lot better

      2. Wow man. I thought you were a left wing asshole. It turns out I’m totally wrong. You are a right wing asshole. My bad. Now go fuck yourself.

  10. No way dude, you have got to be kidding me.

    http://www.anon-surfing.at.tc

    1. A stopped Skynet is still right more times a day than a stopped clock (or a DanT).

  11. I think Gary Johnson has the credentials to win. His record as Governor would beat Huckabee’s, Jindal’s (if he’s still considered a contender), and Palin’s. He’s clear, consistent, and comes across as pretty pragmatic. I think it’s his views on drugs and immigration that will hurt. Can you imagine a Republican presidential candidate who is for ending the war on drugs?

    That will scare the shit out of the blue-haired GOP base. The Tea Party, by and large, is not ready for Johnson.

    I also don’t think he can win a popularity contest with Palin or Huckabee. Which is too bad because he might have been a good president.

    1. ALthough Huckabee and Palin appear to have good personalities, Johnson, imo, gets the personality edge. That, I confess, does not necessarily translate into winning a popularity contest.

      1. Of course if he were to come out and advocate for the murder of law enforcement, your vote for him would be secured.

        1. Yeah, as if anyone would do that. You are a douchewad.

        2. you are a douchewad

    2. Can you imagine a Republican presidential candidate who is for ending the war on drugs?

      I certainly don’t see any Dem candidates advocating a sane drug policy on the horizon. The Chosen One* is quite content with the status quo.

      * I’m working on a better derogatory nickname for Obama, Sometimes they come easy (Bush the Lesser), sometimes they require a little work (ignorant hillbilly whackjob preacher). It’ll come to me before the 2012 campaign.

      1. I’m trying out “Obushma” for the lefties that all thought our troops would be home by now.

        1. How about “Obumma” or Obummer”?

          1. I like ‘Obama-lama-ding-dong.’

    3. Can you imagine a Republican presidential candidate who is for ending the war on drugs?

      Easier than I can imagine a Democrat presidential candidate who is for ending the war on drugs.

      1. This is true, in the same way that only a devoted anti-communist Republican like Nixon could have opened relations with China, and only a Democrat could have enacted welfare reform.

        The two main parties are scared shitless of the brands the other team has labeled them with (D’s are soft on crime! R’s are heartless!), so in the bizarro world of American politics, it would take someone seen as a “conservative” to end the War on Drugs – because the other side can’t get the label to stick.

        1. IIRC, in Indonesia, it was conservatives that enacted a national healthcare plan. Back here, it was republicans that “saved” Social Security. I think there are many analogies to back up your argument.

        2. ^this^

          + (other than marijuana)there is no drug legalization faction on the left

        3. only a Democrat could have enacted welfare reform

          Only a Democrat cornered on the issue by a Republican House.

  12. Johnson’s only hope is that the rest of the Republican field runs so hard to the right on immigration – and, I dunno, creationism and whatever else these people believe – that the sane remnant of the party is left with Johnson by default.

    1. Opposing illegal immigration is more of a populist issue than a “hard right” one.

      Opposition to unchecked illegal immigration transcends political demographics.

      1. Labor unions certainly oppose it.

        1. African-Americans too.

          1. Legal immigrants often aren’t happy about it, either.

  13. Come on over to the dark side Gary… we’ve got weed and prostitutes…

  14. Gary Johnson! Because Acid, Amnesty and Abortion is always a winning platform!

    1. Yes, Yes, and Yes. What was your point? Or did you lose that bag of dicks i sent you?

    2. My subscription is with the wrong AAA, it seems.

  15. He said such emotional reactions to the problem “have to do with the notion that (immigrants) are taking away jobs from U.S. citizens.”

    really. i am shocked. no, really. i am.

  16. his administration determined that the state got more tax revenue from illegal immigrants than the state was paying out in benefits

    …and, that determination made, his deeply libertarian administration attempted to reduce their taxes, and failing that, he loudly, publicly advised illegal immigrants that they’re getting jacked, and they’d be wise to GTFO, since unlike citizens, they freely can.
    Oh. That didn’t happen? And he wants the state to rob more of them? Hm. Must be one of them other kinds of libertarians.

    1. Interesting that Johnson’s position on illegal immigration is predicated on the benefits that are accrued only as long as it remains illegal.

      There are two kinds of libertarian, Laudable and Punchable. Ron Paul is Laudable. Anything from the Cato Institute… well, not so much…..

      1. Yes, it is interesting.

        As interesting as the fact that the one-plank immigration policy…

        1. Don’t enforce immigration law.

        …would be far, far better than anything that is likely to come out of Congress’s efforts on this front.

        1. Indeed, just what this country needs. An executive who feels he doesn’t have a duty to enforce the laws that were passed by the duly-elected representatives of the United States. Because that attitude has never, ever gotten this country, or any other for that matter, into trouble before.

          The hypocrisy here is fucking amazing. We get message boards filled with comments from people constantly complaining about how Bush supposedly felt he was above the law coming from the same people who think it is a-ok to ignore immigration law because it fits into their political philosophy. I guess intellectual consistency is not a hallmark of libertarianism.

          1. It is immoral to enforce immoral law.

            1. I challenge the idea that it is “immoral” for a nation to have borders and attempt to control who comes in.

              1. You may do that. I was challenging the idea that not enforcing law was hypocrisy.

                1. So if a prosecutor thinks the laws against police brutality are immoral, he is justified in never bringing charges against cops who break those laws.

                  If President Bush thought that the restrictions Fisa placed on warrantless wiretapping were immoral, then it was right for him to stonewall any investigation of violations of that law.

                  Like many libertarians, your view of how law enforcement is supposed to work assumes that everyone in our society is a libertarian angel.

                  1. See Ecolibertarian’s response below.

                    Agents of the state should be strictly limited. The people themselves should be largely free.

                    This shouldn’t be that hard.

                  2. Like many libertarians, your view of how law enforcement is supposed to work assumes that everyone in our society is a libertarian angel.

                    Seriously, this is pretty much exactly wrong.

                    Like many libertarians, my view of how law enforcement is supposed to work assumes that everyone in our society is completely self-interested — which makes the members of society who work for the state incredibly suspect.

          2. We like citizens to be above illegitimate laws, while politicians to be below, far below the law. What’s inconsistent about that if you love humanity and hate politicians?

          3. Mike P, and Ecolibertarian, you guys forgot to mention that this fellow, B, has two posts full of hyperbolic fabrications.

            He provides no links, no evidence, and no reason to read, nor respond, to his screeds.

            A response is more dignity than his posts deserve.

          4. One of the reasons I voted for Bush Jr. (BUT only the first time) was that one of his major goals was to improve relations with Mexico and tackle the immigration issue, perhaps with amnesty, etc. and I thought this was both moral and would improve the economy. And I thought that Gore’s obsession with AGW would cause him to pass laws that would decimate the economy. 9/11 changed the whole picture. Mexico was out and Iraq was in.

      2. There are two kinds of Republicrat/Democan, the kind i want to punch in the face, and the ones who i’ll apologize to, after punching them in the face.

        1. I hope you punch them in the face again, after you apoligize to them for punching them in the face the first time. And then don’t apologize.

        2. Just make sure it is in Chicago or DC where the lawful ones can’t carry guns yet.

        3. Not really a libertarian response is it? What about the Prime Directive?

  17. “At an event the other night and some guy says, ‘What we need are A-10s flying low across the border … guns blazing.'” Johnson said. “I said, ‘Really? You want to kill the immigrants? … We are on different pages here. We really have a serious disagreement about this.'” But a couple of minutes later, Johnson said, the man apologized and said he didn’t mean what he said.

    The scary thing is, I think a fair number of folks on the right do indeed mean it when they say shit like that. To them, the Mexicans aren’t even human.

      1. Understatement, rather. Sad it is.

    1. ‘They broke the law by coming here illegally. They are criminals!’

      You’re correct. I kinda secretly wish that the next time people who think like this are on vacation in a foreign country laying on the beach in their swimwear and some foreign cops come up to them and ask for ID. They reply that their passport is in their hotel room but the cops say that they have broken their country’s law by not having it on their person at all times. Then they are hauled to the police station…

      1. People who think like this don’t leave the US.

        One can only hope that, having been tanned appropriately at the beach, they proceed to fly or drive through Arizona. “Can I see your passport?”

        1. I wish that were true. I hear almost daily (cuz I work in transport industry) of people who feel harassed by airport security (particularly UK airport security), get pissed off because the French don’t speak English to them, and then spout out about how cool the AZ laws are.

        2. Here’s my fave:

          British Version of TSA: I’m sorry but I’ll have to confiscate that.
          Passenger: But, it’s Parmesan cheese. Why?
          British Version of TSA: It could melt.

          True story.

      2. And your point is?

      3. Holy fucking shit, countries expect tourists and immigrants to obey the laws of that country. Holy fuck, can you imagine that? Better break out the Gestapo analogiges. The part about the AZ law that states law enforcement can only check your status if you have been stopped or detained for another offense? Let’s fucking forget that part, because it would be inconvenient to your pointless tourist analogy.

        1. And yes, I realize I misspelled analogies in the above post.

          1. I spell it the first way!

        2. I, for one, feel a sense of pride in being in a country that doesn’t emulate the shittiness of others. I am hoping it stays that way but posts from your ilk make me second-guess that.

        3. And furthermore, a fucking traffic stop does not entitle authorities to do anymore than ask to see my identification. If I forgot it at home, fine. Fine me for such negligence. Believe me the fine for that is on the books.

          Go beyond that and you are fucking with the Bill of Rights. If you are willing to sell the protections of the Bill of Rights to deport a couple of Oaxacans that displease you, believe me, you are one twisted fucked up confused American who does not appreciate his birthright.

          1. Jester, after the war on drugs, and the war on terror you seem surprised that people are willing to throw away their natural rights.

            Anything to be safe from real or perceived, mostly perceived, threats is enough for most people to shackle themselves and their fellow citizens.

            1. Sorry Cap 1, is my visa bill unpaid? Excuse the pun. I am painfully aware of the sad state of affairs. I am not surprised; just frustrated. Thanks for caring.

              1. Jester, it’s capitol ell, don’t worry you aren’t the first to make that mistake.

                Regarding your comment at 9:34, I agree wholeheartedly. This was the argument that I used to use when people would agitate for torturing suspected terrorists. That we were Americans, and were better than that, usually met with the claim “but theeey do it”. Aaargh!

          2. “And furthermore, a fucking traffic stop does not entitle authorities to do anymore than ask to see my identification. If I forgot it at home, fine. Fine me for such negligence.

            Fuck Yeah

            You dey think they is the cops er sumptin.

          3. a fucking traffic stop does not entitle authorities to do anymore than ask to see my identification. If I forgot it at home, fine. Fine me for such negligence.

            Fine who? If you don’t have ID, how are they going to know they’re fining the right person?

            Not to mention that not being able to produce a driver’s license at a traffic stop is pretty strong probable cause for the crime of unlicensed driving.

            1. Not any more really. At least in the state where I live, the cop can get your name and pull up drivers license info, including the photo, on their laptop. It is just another excuse to fuck with you. And if you are not driving the car, they have no reason to expect you to be able to produce any ID at all.

      4. If you go to a foreign country and don’t have at least a copy of your passport (to avoid having the passport itself stolen) on you at all times, you’re insane. Lots of bad experiences with foreign law enforcement lie down that road.

    2. I was coming here to say the opposite, that most people who say “come out with guns blazing” are not talking about killing people.

    3. Jersey Patriot|6.30.10 @ 6:58PM|#
      “…I think…”
      Doubtful

    4. My dad and I where having a heated argument over immigration at work yesterday. He was trying to argue that any one who crosses the boarded illegally more than 3 times should be shot. He was also advocating for shooting Mexicans who where still in Mexico who looked like they where trying to cross the boarder.

      Many of the people on the far right have let this become an emotional debate with no rational thought put into it at all.

  18. …and they will vow: ‘This NEVER would happen in my country!’

  19. I am a libertarian, but I hate Gary Johnson — that smelly blowhard — because he opposed ObamaCare, is skeptical of Iraq-style invasions and associates with limited government retards. What a jerk, I wish he were dead!

    (Not) David Weigel (actually)

    1. you forgot ratfucker

      1. AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

        (Deep breath)

        HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHA!

    2. Racist!

      I’d out you if I didn’t last week.

  20. I’ve said it all along that illegal immigrants pay their fair share of taxes. In fact we should be glad that most of them don’t pay income taxes or most would qualify for tax credits and end up costing us more while still having a welfare state.

    My immigration proposal is to create a new class of resticted visa that allows currently illegal immigrants to stay and work here, but does not put them on a path to citizenship. This visa is cancelled if they are convicted of a felony crime (thus encouraging them to remain law abiding residents). Also they would not qualify for the big entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and would have to forfeit all tax credits (so we will never pay them more than they put in.) If they wish to qualify for these things, they have to start over and immigrate legally like the rest of the legal immigrants. But this avoids the worst costs and moral hazards of amnesty while ending their black market existence and defending legal immigrants by not rewarding illegals the same visa status. As an all around compromise, I think this is preferable to amnesty, the status quo or max enforcement/mass deportation.

    1. Honestly, if you insist on involving the government, then set it up like this: Anyone in the entire world regardless of nationality can enter the lottery to enter the USA and have the right to work for 20 yrs. after paying a $100 application fee.

      After 20 yrs., if they have a negative net worth they are deported.

      Illegal immigrants (since now no one can claim they had no chance) will be flayed alive, their skin and vital organs sold to China to help ameliorate the trade imbalance.

    2. They should give that visa to anyone who wants to come and work on a temporary basis.

  21. How about this for a Johnson bumper sticker.

    Johnson for realignment of priorities. You know you want your Johnson aligned!

    1. Yes, the unabridged version of Les Miserable would make an awesome bumpersticker as well.

      1. OK, so it’s a little long. It would make a nice slogan, though, and then, after it gets into the collective lexicon, just the last line would make a great bumper sticker.

        Critic!

      2. OK, how about this:

        Ya doesn’t has to call me Johnson

        1. How about:

          Johnson: Straight Up!

          1. How about:

            Shut the fuck up, Slappy.

          2. +10

  22. “When I was governor, I asked for a cost-benefits analysis….

    I would like to see the analysis.

    1. I think the fact that he left with New Mexico being in the black, instead of the red is enough to show the cost-benefit of such policies he had.

      1. I agree, but I would still like to see this specific analysis.

    2. I expect if you were to do a cost/benefit analysis on any law, you’d find it would be more cost effective not to enforce it. No enforcement = no enforcement costs, so it would clearly be cost effective to enforce none of them. Is it really cost effective to enforce murder laws? Why? What economic benefit is accrued by solving a murder? And just think of the contributions to the economy a robust contract murder industry could create!

  23. I like Johnson in the primaries and then Ron Paul running third party in the General.

    I can’t think of a better way to get the message out: Run libertarians in both races.

    1. Then when they both get trounced, it will finally drive home the fact that 97% of the population doesn’t give a fuck about libertarians.

      1. B, don’t you have a sister, or perhaps a favourite hog, that you should be making sweet love to.

        I think I hear a yearning for your affection out in the barn.

        SEEAAYY SEEAAYYU!

        1. Sisters need love too.

          1. If you are B’s sister posting as wayne, then…um don’t, as it is weird, thank you.

      2. We already know that is usually true. Maybe once we have 12% unemployment and 15% inflation people will wise up.

  24. Gary Johnson is far too sane to be a Republican. And far too responsible to be a Democrat.

    And given how much respect I have for him, I assume it’s only a matter of time before some sort of dirt comes out and I’m left to feel icky for having gushed about him.

    1. thoreau|6.30.10 @ 9:23PM|#
      “…And given how much respect I have for him, I assume it’s only a matter of time before some sort of dirt comes out and I’m left to feel icky for having gushed about him….”
      Could be.
      Having beat a bit on him and watched others do so, he fluffed some questions, but didn’t seem to have any real skeletons.
      Dunno….

      1. Having beat a bit on him and watched others do so, he fluffed some questions, but didn’t seem to have any real bones.

        WTF????

    2. Personally, unless he is fucking goats AND paying for them with tax payer’s money, I don’t really care much about any dirt in his closet.

  25. His administration determined that the state got more tax revenue from illegal immigrants than the state was paying out in benefits.

    That’s some narrow accounting. Is the cost of building a new school for immigrants’ children considered a benefit? Is the cost of digging up a 8″ sewer line and replacing it a 12″ line to accommodate a high population density a benefit? Do the immigrants really pay for the bonds that are floated to buy infrastructure?

  26. Jester,

    I tried clicking on your “yes” for a link to a spreadsheet or something. Didn’t work.

    1. yes. as much as some fuckwit born stateside a-spongin’.

      yes. That’s my final answer.

  27. New Mexico spends $6,600 per pupil annually (http://www.epodunk.com/top10/per_pupil/index.html).

    To cover that cost, illegals would need to earn pay at least that much in state taxes. “Estimated at 8.6% of income” that would require a taxable income of about $76,000 per year to cover the cost of one child in school. (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/45.html).

    Seems like a pretty hefty income for illegal aliens to cover the cost of just one child…

    1. Accurate accounting is a cornerstone of civilization. Whether your for having wide open borders or have a machine gun turret deployed every 100 yards on a nation’s border is beside the point. If accurate accounting falls to political whims there were only be political winners.

    2. To be fair, my cost side of the equation does not factor in the productivity side of the illegal. Still, I doubt that will make up the difference.

      1. What makes you think every illegal has a kid? Most of them are men who leave their families back in the old country.

        1. I live in California, the land of English as a second language.

          1. Surely most Californian Latinos are legal at this point?

            1. No, not really. And quit calling me Shirley.

        2. What makes you think every illegal has a kid?

          Yeah what the fuck esse.

          I got 7 mijos.

    3. Maybe the US should bill Mexico for the education costs, that seems fair? After all, Mexico won’t pay to educate the children of US citizens, or any other non-Mexican citizens in their schools.

      1. Separation of school and state

      2. Maybe the government should get out of education. Problem solved. Funny, that solution works for most concerns about illegal immigration.

  28. Gary Johnson’s Differentiation is better than Rand Paul’s Integration, at least.

    1. Oh, you spherical bastard, I knew that there was a good math joke in there somewhere, but you made one… and it ain’t good.

      Tulpa, you are an infinite series of suck.

      Just kidding bro, us yinzers gotta stick together.

      1. Hate to have to go full ontological again, but a joke that exists is better than one that doesn’t.

        1. Great God in Boots! — the ontological argument is sound!

          Tulpa, your mind is stuck in the gutter…the gutter of 1100 a.d.!

    2. I don’t know about that, Rand Paul is an MD after all, so he is almost certain to have taken college calculus classes. Not so sure about Johnson.

  29. “B” nibbled gently, lovingly, wanting desperately to release the tender nugget from its womb-like sac, yet fearing that moment when anticipation turns to regret of pleasure past. His reverie was interrupted by the soft cry of his love, muffled in the covers against the chance Mother would detect the siblings’ sinful bliss over the blare of “Law and Order” in the living room.

    He pressed gently with his teeth once more the sac he had so lovingly cultivated over the last week. Sara knew his fascination with pus, barely contained within a pore, straining to burst forth like a lonely cry for help from the irritated anus of his mind. Why did he just think of Hit and Run? Dammit, this moment was his, why allow those fools to ruin it.

    He redoubled his concentration, wanting to forget, to release his love from the tantalizing itch she had borne for him this past week. Finally unable to bear it any longer, he squeezed with his teeth and released her. The pus squirted from the pore, and he finally tasted relief. Sara cried out into the pillow, the itch gone from her tender ring. She knew it wouldn’t be long until her loving “B” started the cycle again.

    1. Nah, I think that B prefers a less alliterative hog-fucking prose.

      B went into the barn, then he fucked the shit out of that sow…the end

    2. Not bad at all. I like it.

      1. lolz! you so funny Epi!

    3. Michael Bloomberg’s tongue is both delicate and firm. If someone who loves you is tossing your salad while Law and Order is on, please pause to watch the commercials.

  30. I’m late to this party, but what I like the most about Gary Johnson is that he’s trying to capture the same themes as Ron Paul without any of the associated Ron Paul-like insanity on economics (fiat currency!), racism (those awful newsletters), and truly insane foreign policy. He’s redeeming the debacle that was 2008.

    1. Fiat currency! Fiat goddamn currency!

      There is a very serious bestiality/incest subthread which debates the various proclivities of a poster on this board. Mostly in regards to his inclinations to farm animals vs. those to his immediate family members.

      Jeez Esoteric, get with the program…dang straight you’re late to the party…

    2. What is insane about his foreign policy?

    3. Shut up weigel.

      1. He ain’t Weigel. Weigel moved on to bigger and better things, and a large circle of friends. We are still here, where he left us.

    4. Gary Johnson wants to end the Federal Reserve……

      which means he is for ending fiat currency. I’m not aware that he has any significantly different views of Ron Paul on economics, he just has a different tone.

  31. This man is far too interesting and thoughtful to have a ghost of a chance in the GOP 2012 primary.

    1. So is Gary Johnson more or less interesting and thoughtful than Janeane Garofalo?

      Nothing Matt Welch brings to table makes me think so.

      1. So, you think that he is exactly as thoughtful as Garofalo? That would be a remarkable coincidence.

  32. All I have to say is that the A-10 is a seriously badass aircraft.

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