Reason Morning Links: Obama Sends Troops to Border, Jamaica Closes in on Drug Lord, Police Chiefs Warn About Immigration Bill

• Obama orders 1,200 National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border.
• Police chiefs worry that Arizona immigration bill spin-offs will lead to increase in crime.
• Obama, Senate Republicans tangle at luncheon.
• Jamaican slum "prepares for war" as government closes in on drug kingpin.
• Manhattan community board votes to allow construction of controversial Muslim community center near Ground Zero.

Comments

[Johnny Longtorso]

Europeans Fear Crisis Threatens Liberal Benefits

America's new culture war: Free enterprise vs. government control

[Rahm Emanuel]

Today there is a very real threat that the 30 percent coalition may transform our great nation forever. I hope this threat will clear our thinking enough to bring forth leaders -- regardless of political party -- with our principles at heart and the ideas to match.

If that's not sedition, I don't know what is.

[The Libertarian Guy]

Sedition, 2004 definition:

Speaking ill of President Bush is sedition.

Sedition, 2010 definition:

Speaking ill of President Obama is sedition.

[Corduroy]

The NYT is questioning the European social model? Europe must be doomed.

[Mike M.]

Agreed. When even the hardest of the hard left is facing reality, you know it's over.

Reading the quotes of some of those Europeans in that article sure is depressing, because even now it's still not too late for them to save their culture. All they need to do is grow up, take responsibility, have some children, and get serious about life. They can't afford to wait too much longer though.

[OptimistPrime]

We're gonna have to ban vodka. THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=12542493

[Astrid]

Because you couldn't do something stupid like that with rubbing alcohol.

[Bevis]

Eh heh heh, nail polish remover.

[SugarFree]

Louisville Fox Affiliate? Do we have yet another Kentuckian on the board?

[Solanum]

God, I hope not.

Hoosiers > Kentuckians

[SugarFree]

"Look, everybody! It's more fucking corn!"

[Pro Libertate]

I almost went insane driving through the corn fields of Indiana and Illinois. Fields and fields of corn. Never-ending corn. Corn.

[SugarFree]

Bingo. At least KY has shacks and tire fires to break up the monotony.

[Pro Libertate]

And bluegrass-covered hills.

[BakedPenguin]

I think I'd prefer KY over IN. If nothing else, the continued (if vastly diminished) existence of moonshiners is a positive thing.

I have heard, however, that many of those endless rows of corn in IN hide other ...urm ...crops.

[Solanum]

Goddamn it, I thought there were several Hoosiers on this board. Help me out here.

[Pro Libertate]

Kentucky has bourbon.

[T]

Is there a native Hoosier booze? If not, Kentucky wins for this fact alone.

[AlmightyJB]

As an unbiased Buckeye, I gotta pick KY over IN for sure. At least there is some scenery in KY.

[Solanum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9wyOJ4di0g

[Solanum]

shit. c&p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9wyOJ4di0g

[CaptainSmartass]

Your link's broken, clicking it goes nowhere.

[WTF]

Copy and paste.

[please knee gah]

CaptainSmartAss = CaptainDumbAss

[John]

"Manhattan community board votes to allow construction of controversial Muslim community center near Ground Zero."

Up next a German cultural heritage center near Auschwitz, a Jefferson Davis Memorial near the site of a lynching, and a statue of King Leopold at the mouth of the Congo.

If you are so damned concerned about people not hating Muslims over 9-11, why the hell would you put a mosque on Ground Zero. It is an insult to Muslims as much as anything else. Putting it there implies that mainstream Islam must answer for the action of the insane. It is just unbelievably poor taste.

[Fluffy]

Actually, John, I would say that opposing it is like opposing a Chinese cultural center near Pearl Harbor - because "all those slopes are all the same".

Congratulations on your bigotry.

[MNG]

+1

[John]

Yes MNG. Let's build a mosque on ground zero so that no one ever forgets that not just radical Islam but all Islam is associated with and must answer for 9-11. Lets make sure they put up all of their positive things so that they show the world that they are more than terrorists because everyone of those rag heads has to prove they are not a terrorist right?

[Fluffy]

Let's build a mosque on ground zero so that no one ever forgets that not just radical Islam but all Islam is associated with and must answer for 9-11.

Um...sometimes you're really unbelievable.

Refraining from committing the "crime" of being a Muslim near "Ground Zero" would essentially concede to anti-Muslim bigots that all Muslims were responsible for 9/11.

"Oh gosh, we better not have a mosque within a mile of Ground Zero. That would offend non-Muslims. We better make sure that we crawl like rats in the dark so that no one can see us. That way people will forget we exist and maybe not want to kill us all."

Right. That'll work.

If there were a bunch of people somewhere who thought that I had to "answer" for things done by atheists from some other continent, you know what I would do? Ignore those fuckers and act like they didn't exist, and do whatever the fuck I wanted. [Actually, I probably wouldn't be able to completely ignore them, since the temptation to give them the finger and rub their faces in it would almost certainly be too great for me to resist.]

[John]

Why do they want to build it there other than to play PC, see Muslims are not all like this? It is not like they just happened to build it there. They are building it there to make a point. And that point is going to backfire. And you can run around the world giving everyone the finger you like. But when those people hate your guts, you can't really complain can you?

[Timon19]

What point do YOU think they're making? What point have they professed that they are making?

[Bull Conner]

I am building a KKK museum in the lobby of the Lorraine Hotel in Memphis.

Because I can.

[CaptainSmartass]

That motel is now the Civil Rights Museum, which has a section on the KKK. Though you might not like the exhibits in that part, the KKK kinda comes off as a bunch of douchebags.

[D.J. Drugs]

Stupid community board. If you buy the land, do what you want with it.

[MNG You are a fucking idiot]

-1

[John]

Congratulations on your ignorance Fluffy. The Chinese are not associated with Pearl Harbor, so why would you build a Chinese cultural center over the sunken Arizona and imply that it was? That is what is happening here.

And fuck off on the bigotry charge. If you can't make a rational argument without invective, go post on the liberal blogs where that kind of crap passes as argument.

[Fluffy]

No, dude. You don't get it at all.

In order for it to be in any way, shape or form offensive for a mosque to be built near "Ground Zero" [BTW, will there ever come a time when we can stop using queer little names like this for shit? When whatever stupid little name Tom Brokaw thinks of for something won't be imposed on our language like a great big flag of lame for all time?] the 9/11 attacks have to be something that all Muslims everywhere were in on together.

What did Bangaldeshi Muslims have to do with 9/11? Anything? How about Indonesian Muslims? Were they in on it too? How about the Turks? Did they do it?

You're basically saying that because assholes perceive that all Muslims were and are responsible for 9/11, if any of them build a house of worship anywhere near the former site of the WTC it's a grave insult.

And this makes about as much sense as getting mad if someone builds a Chinese cultural center in Honolulu. Because some asshole somewhere is too fucking stupid to not know that Chinese and Japanese people aren't the same.

The only reason I would mention bigotry is to try to shame you from backing off of your stupid argument. I don't think you're a literal bigot - I think that when thinks push certain "Proud To Be An American" buttons with you, you can't be bothered to think things through. Go put a plastic flag on your car antenna and you'll feel better about those bad, bad Muslims who are "disrespecting" 9/11 by, you know, existing. And worshipping as they see fit.

[MNG]

Yeah, I think it's an overgeneralization thing going on here, for the reasons fluffy has already discussed.

[John]

No one is saying that there can't be Mosques in New York. But on the site of the 9-11 attacks is really bad idea. It is just poor taste. And I can tell you what is going to happen. People will visit the site and see the Mosque as a big disrespectful fuck you from all Muslims about 9-11. They may not mean it that way, but that is how it is going to be taken. The 19th Century Germans had nothing to do with the Holocaust. But if you build a cultural center celebrating old German culture, people would be offended by it and look at it as being disrespectful. By building it so close, you are just encouraging people to blame all Muslims for 9-11. I think we would be better off building up the street a few blocks.

[mr simple]

Per the article it's two blocks away.

[Fluffy]

John,

You may not be following the story all that closely - but the center in question is, in fact, a couple of blocks away from the site. And not at the site.

And there are already mosques within a few blocks of the site.

[Citizen Nothing]

So, Fluffy. Allow me to play Rachel Maddow here.

Would your argument change if the mosque were across the street from "Ground Zero"?

[John]

I haven't been. I thought it was across the street not two blocks away. I take it back. I was mistaken. Two blocks might as well be a two miles in downtown Manhattan. I don't understand why anyone cares.

[CaptainSmartass]

Probably for the same reason you did until this comment: they were rushing to judgment over things about which they had no real understanding.

[Ben Rosengart]

Perhaps, people who haven't been to NYC don't realize how densely developed Manhattan is.

[D.J. Drugs]

Jews weren't part of German culture?

[The Libertarian Guy]

Easier solution:

Build the mosque somewhere else.

[Ernie the Bear]

If I was building a skyscraper in the U.S., I think I might offer some free space inside the building to serve as a mosque/insurance policy.

[Timon19]

Yep.

[Ben Rosengart]

I guess that's "easier", if you consider other people's sacrifices always to be easy.

How's this for a solution: realize that the world is a very big place, and your parochial ideas about what does and doesn't belong near the WTC site aren't dispositive.

[James Ard]

Can we go a freaking day without someone calling a commentor a bigot around here? Has the whole world turned cosmotarian?

[MNG]

Can we go a freaking day without someone calling a commentor a cosmotarian around here?

[BakedPenguin]

Is "progressive dicklord" ok? 'cause I used that one downthread.

[Ska]

Far better than OK.

[hmm]

That has a nice ring to it. It does seem a bit sexist though.

[SugarFree]

What's sexist about "dicklord?" You are either lording over other dicks, or you are in complete command of your dick.

[BakedPenguin]

It's true. A woman could be a dicklord (In SF's first definition). I know a few like that.

[The Gobbler]

Or you could just be an asshole lord.

[SugarFree]

I'm an asshole, but I'm not sure I'm really ready to rule them.

[T]

One sphincter to rule them all?

[Pro Libertate]

Is that a metal band?

[The Art-P.O.G.]

For the recommendation.

[Citizen Nothing]

I hate to encourage John, but I think Fluffy's argument is far too facile.
What if, in 1951, a group of Honolulu Shintoists had decided to built a shrine just outside the gates of Pearl Harbor?
I'd have been cool with that, I think.
But I certainly can understand that many wouldn't. And if I were part of that particular Shinto community, I would argue that we'd be better served by building our shrine elsewhere in the city even though I, and my fellow Honolulu Shintoists of course had nothing to do with the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

[The Gobbler]

^^THIS^^

[Fluffy]

Dude, you still don't get it.

The reason "many" wouldn't have been "cool with that" is because Japan was a nation-state, and because the Japanese regard themselves as a distinct race, so there was at least a tortured way to regard as inappropriate the act of building a shrine on or across from the site of a hostile act by the Japanese government.

There is no monolithic entity that speaks for Muslims. There is no nation-state that exists whose actions can be identified as the actions of "Islam". This means that getting upset about this group of Muslims building a community center because of what some other Muslims did is pretty much just like complaining about a Chinese cultural center when you're angry at Japan. Chinese people are as much "like" Japan as American Muslims are "like" the 19 suicide hijackers. And the reason "many" would mistake one for the other is the same in each case: dumbassery.

[PapayaSF]

Well, would you be OK with the German cultural center two blocks from Auschwitz? After all, "Germans" are not a monolithic group, and most had nothing to do with Auschwitz. True, they're a nation-state, but not the same one from 65 years ago. I think nation-states are pretty analogous to religions in this regard (collective guilt).

[grrizzly]

Jean Grillo, 65, a writer from TriBeCa, said shutting out any faith undermined American values. "What better place to teach tolerance than at the very area where hate tried to kill tolerance?" she said.

9/11 didn't reveal that Americans needed to be taught tolerance toward Islam. American Muslims wishing to spread tolerance should do it in the Muslim world, which is indeed very intolerant. Build a synagogue and a gay cultural center in Mecca. That will teach tolerance to those who really need it.

[D.J. Drugs]

It's fine not being cool with whatever you want, just don't use coercive force to prevent people building what they want. If one wants to protest a mosque or a shrine or whatever, so what? Just don't give anything but free exchange power over a proposed transaction.

[Pink Cosmotarian]

"Raaaaacist!!"

[Fluffy]

Look, I don't actually think John is a conscious bigot, and my "compliment" to him was arch.

But in order for accusations of bigotry to disappear from the internet, it would be necessary for, you know, actual bigots to disappear from the internet.

So while it may tire you to read the word "bigot" every day, unless you can somehow persuade all bigots to turn their computers off we're kind of stuck with it.

[John]

Never mind. I thought it was across the street. It is two blocks away, which is an eternity in downtown Manhattan. I don't even know why this is in the news. My mistake.

[Citizen Nothing]

It's still an interesting (if now only theoretical) argument.

[PapayaSF]

The site of the mosque was hit by debris from at least one of the planes, I've heard.

[Warty]

it would be necessary for, you know, actual bigots to disappear from the internet.

Main Entry: big?ot
Pronunciation: \?bi-g?t\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Yeah, not happening.

[SugarFree]

I hate all Wartys.

[Warty]

I may disagree with your opinion, sir, but I would gladly give my life for your right to speak it. Sir.

[Men E. Perl]

Go ahead and commence with that, then.

[SugarFree]

This magnanimity is why I love all Wartys.

[WTF]

Goddamn sexist, bigoted cosmotarians.

[D.J. Drugs]

What if someone advocates an interference with the free market? That's what "community boards" are.

[AlmightyJB]

I say let the free market decide what goes there. Tittie bar or Mosque. Makes no difference to me.

[Rich]

Obama orders 1,200 National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border

Will we ever see "Calder?n orders 1,200 troops to the Mexican-U.S. border"?

[Corduroy]

They're already there. Just not working for the gov't.

[Rich]

Your point is well taken.

I'm just observing that (apparently) no incentive exists for Mexico to prevent crossings into the US.

[Corduroy]

I wasn't correcting. Just pointing out that Mexico doesn't even have control over their own military, let alone the initiative to police their northern border.

[.]

Mexico's troops are too busy keeping immigrants from crossing their southern border to worry about emigres crossing their northern boundary.

[Citizen Nothing]

I say we just welcome in the Hondurans and Guatemalans and cut out the middleman.

[The Gobbler]

My city has a gazillion Ecuadorans. We'll take more if you got 'em. Good people.

[SugarFree]

There are a whole lot of American artist types that have moved to Ecuador. It's crazy cheap to live down there. My wife went for two weeks to run a traveling workshop for Ecuadoran librarians and just loved it.

[Chris]

Ecuadoran librarians huh....well I'll be danged, now I've heard it all

[R C Dean]

I'm just observing that (apparently) no incentive exists for Mexico to prevent crossings into the US.

To the contrary. Remittances from illegal aliens are a pretty important source of foreign exchange for the Mexicans.

[Jason]

Mexico is losing a large chunk of their tax paying workforce.

[MWG]

If they're like the US, they'll find a way to collect regardless of where you live.

[Ben Rosengart]

I don't know of any other country which is like the US in that regard.

[D.J. Drugs]

I heard the USSR was something like that. I'm totally perhaps imagining something...

[Death Panelist]

They're more about hammering immigrants coming from their south, just like us.

[BakedPenguin]

The further north you go, the easier the immigration is, apparently. I checked, and I could move to Canada today if I wanted to.

That might come in handy real soon.

[Corduroy]

Only if you want to hide out in the wilderness. Canada isn't going to escape the fiscal meltdown any more the the US is going to.

[Madbiker]

"Only if you want to hide out in the wilderness."

That idea has incredible appeal.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Because you'll turn into Wolverine? You think if you hide out in the Canadian wilderness long enough, you'll become Wolverine, don't you.

[R C Dean]

The further north you go, the easier the immigration is, apparently.

Not really. Immigration to Costa Rica and Panama is dead easy. Provided, of course, you have cash.

[BakedPenguin]

Provided, of course, you have cash.

And you want to leave Costa Rica for Panama. Personally, I don't see it happening, unless you're wanted by the cops in Costa Rica.

[Pro Libertate]

The Yukon Song

My tiger friend has got the sled,
And I have packed a snack.
We're all set for the trip ahead.
We're never coming back!

We're abandoning this life we've led!
So long, Mom and Pop!
We're sick of doing what you've said,
And now it's going to stop!

We're going where it snows all year,
Where life can have real meaning.
A place where we won't have to hear,
"Your room could stand some cleaning."

The Yukon is the place for us!
That's where we want to live.
Up there we'll get to yell and cuss
And act real primitive.

We'll never have to go to school,
Forced into submission,
By monstrous, crabby teachers who'll
Make us learn addition.

We'll never have to clean a plate,
Of veggie glops and goos.
Messily we'll masticate,
Using any fork we choose!

The timber wolves will be our friends.
We'll stay up late and howl
At the moon, till nightmare ends,
Before going on the prowl.

Oh, what a life! We cannot wait
To be in that arctic land,
Where we'll be masters of our fate,
And lead a life that's grand!

No more of parental rules!
We're heading for some snow!
Good riddance to those grown-up-ghouls!
We're leaving! Yukon Ho!

[Ska]

Nice, I have that one.

[Pro Libertate]

I've got them all--I got the whole collection for a past birthday.

[AlmightyJB]

Good luck getting a good job there. Their protective of their jobs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I think Mexico did secure the US border at the end of the epic morality play The Day After Tomorrow, in an ironic reversal of roles. (The twist was portrayed with the level of subtlety one has come to expect from Roland Emmerich, so you might have missed it.)

[John]

Liberals are now objecting to the term "Obamacare". But I thought our totally awesome President passed this fabulous law that would only get more popular after it was passed. Why wouldn't they want his name associated with it?

http://hotair.com/greenroom/ar.....-his-blog/

[Fluffy]

Nice.

I think this is one of those times where the word is only an insult if we say it.

[Rich]

Better make saying the O-word a hate crime.

[BakedPenguin]

No shit. "Teabagger" is still okay, though, huh?

Just for google hits: Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare

FOAD, progressive dicklords. And take the shit legislation you foisted upon us with you to hell.

[cynical]

Well, they make a good point. We should start calling it DemocratCare. I mean, not yet, it takes time to make the transition. Maybe around 2012?

[Rich]

"DemocratCare" it is. Thanks!

[The Gobbler]

I like DonkeyCare, myself.

[CaptainSmartass]

JackassCare?

[spambot]

Democare seems to flow better.

[Pro Libertate]

Demoncare.

[The Libertarian Guy]

I like "PeasantCare", as it points out that our only function, now, is to provide sustenance to the federal government via the sweat off our paychecks and votes for our overseers. Otherwise, we are useless.

[Robert Ley]

It keeps the nation strong by keeping the workers healthy and a healthy worker is a joyous worker.

[D.J. Drugs]

The Road to Serfdomcare.

I can't stand intercapitalization.

[J sub D]

Obama orders 1,200 National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border.

? Meet the new boss*
Same as the old boss ?

* I know it's getting old, but goddamit, "Hope and Change" turns out to be statist politics as usual. How's that Gitmo closedown comiing along?

[John]

If Arizona is racist for having cops ask people if they are citizens, what does that make Obama for calling out the Guard?

[Rich]

Does anyone know what the Guards' orders actually are? Maybe they're "'Secure' the border. ;-)".

[Wesley]

I don't know, but when the Texas Guard was sent to the Texas border, their job was help the Border Patrol with non-border enforcement duties. In theory, the Texas Guard did all of "the other work" so that all the Border Patrol had to do was border enforcement.

[Spoonman.]

Wait, what the shit does the Border Patrol do other than border enforcement?

[Michael Bolton]

Fill out TPS reports.

[MNG]

Well, it is the federal government's job to promulgate and enforce immigration law...

[John]

So it is racist if the state does it but okay if the Feds do it? If a federalized guardsman goes out and asked every Mexican looking person he sees in Arizona for their papers that is a-ok. But if a state trooper does it that is not? Really? That is your objection to the Arizona law, federalism? If so, fine. But shut up about profiling and racism when objecting to it.

[MNG]

I'm not sure either's intention is racist. I think the state law is grants discretion to enforcers that will inevitably result in bad outcomes, including some racist ones. But it is proper for the federal government to enforce its immigration laws, I don't see how that's racist at all.

[John]

The state law grants no more discretion than is already available to federal agents.

[MikeP]

Except, of course, the discretion requirement to prosecute the state law.

[John]

But the feds still throw you in detention an deport you. I don't see the difference.

[hmm]

I think the state law is grants discretion to enforcers that will inevitably result in bad outcomes, including some racist ones

I disagree with both federal and the state law. Do you realize that the Arizona state law has actual language written into it to stop its abuse were the federal law does not? While your deference to the preference of federal law isn't surprising I'd figure you would have a more favorable view of a law specifically limiting the chance for abuse over one that does not.

[R C Dean]

I think the state law is grants discretion to enforcers that will inevitably result in bad outcomes, including some racist ones. But it is proper for the federal government to enforce its immigration laws, I don't see how that's racist at all.

MNG, you seem to be arguing that racism arises from discretion in enforcing the law. Are you saying that federal agents have no discretion in who they ask for papers?

[.]

So it is racist if the state does it but okay if the Feds do it?

The Arizona law is very similar to the Federal law. The only reason it is considered racist is that Arizona might actually enforce it.

[J sub D]

If Arizona is racist for having cops ask people if they are citizens, what does that make Obama for calling out the Guard?

Racist, tribal, or cowardly unwillinf to address the real problem.

[Astrid]

Progressive.

[Obama Supporter]

what does that make Obama for calling out the Guard?

My Man!

[cynical]

I was thinking the same thing as soon as I heard this.

[BakedPenguin]

How's that Gitmo closedown comiing along?

It's coming along- because they're continuing to send suspects to countries that torture people.

It's certainly coming along faster than the end to MM raids.

Or than government transparency.

Or than getting the text of bills online within five days.

It's not coming along nearly as fast as Obamacare, though. Obamacare Obamacare Obamacare

[The Knights Who Say Ni]

Stop saying THE WORD!!

[BakedPenguin]

What word? Obamacare Obamacare

[The Gobbler]

Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, Obamacare, SUCKS!!!

[D-FENS]

Is this going to develop into that video of Steve Ballmer doing his "developers" dance?

[R C Dean]

Obama's only real step to closing down Gitmo is killing suspected terrorists with drone strikes rather than capturing them and having to imprison them somewhere.

So, apparently, killing someone is less of a human rights violation than imprisoning them.

[Nick]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be killed instantly than be sentenced (I know) to indefinite detention with a bunch of terrorists and Marines who think I'm a terrorist.

[GoNavy]

Disregarding the indefinite part, I'd much rather be under detention and supervised by active duty Marines than reservist army/national guard that are police in civilian life. While I have known many a jarhead that I wondered how they fed themselves, they do follow orders.

[T]

+1

[Citizen Nothing]

Tin Soldiers and Arpaio comin'...

[Ragin Cajun]

Also from Hot Air:
Rand Paul campaign shake-up begins
Not sure if having company men on board is going to be all a good thing...

[Nick]

If I thought he wanted to be a Senator for the reason Specter wanted to be a Senator, I would worry, but this is a strategic move to get him elected. I may be wrong, but I think he's using them for the same reason they're using him. They have "a certain set of skills" that will help him against his D opponent and they want him in their caucus now that he's the last R standing.

[J sub D]

Manhattan community board votes to allow construction of controversial Muslim community center near Ground Zero.

Islamic community centers are teh evil. Especially if they are "near ground zero". We should restrict Muslim charitable efforts to places like Podunk, Iowa and Nowhere, Idaho.

[John]

Yes. And every Muslim charity effort is totally on the up and up. Just like every Irish charity effort in the 1990s never went to the IRA.

[J sub D]

Unlike Irish charities. Do you have any evidence that the theists opening up this mosque are connected to "terrorism" other than a shared religious belief?

Full disclosure - I live in Detroit whose metro area has the largest concentaration of Muslims in the U.S.

You can tell by all of the terrorist strikes not inflicted on Wayne County.

[BakedPenguin]

I live in Detroit whose metro area has the largest concentaration of Muslims in the U.S. ...You can tell by all of the terrorist strikes not inflicted on Wayne County.

Be fair. If there were bombs going off in Detroit, how could anyone tell?

[obviousier]

Be fair. If there were bombs going off in Detroit, how could anyone tell?

By the echoes bouncing off the empty buildings.

[Pro Libertate]

I thought Detroit was a crater.

[Slut Bunwalla]

When I think of Detroit, I picture the state of Tokyo in Akira.

[Slut Bunwalla]

(By "state" I mean, like, condition. I know Tokyo is a city.)

[obviousier]

Remind me again. Where was the undie bomber flying?

[BakedPenguin]

The optimal solution to that would have been a small, partial ignition - just enough to make his gender a matter of opinion. and not injure anyone else.

Then he could die shortly afterward and get his 72 virgins. And add himself to that number. HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Tonio]

Uh, HIS itinerary was a direct flight from Amsterdam to Paradise (72 Virgins included). But since NWA doesn't offer that service he bought a ticket from Amsterdam to Detroit. Since he never intended to land at the end destination, Detroit makes as much sense as anyplace for not arousing suspicion.

[mr simple]

The proposed center, called the Cordoba House, would rise as many as 15 stories two blocks north of where the twin towers stood.

The center is 2 blocks away? Exactly how far from this sight does it have to be? Anyone who objects to this is either a racist or an idiot, however they were affected by the attacks on the towers. This is what happens when you let government intrude on private property decisions.

Also, any form of historical preservation societies are the worst form of abuse and most worthless committee imaginable. That's what I love about Las Vegas. No one cares about the nostalgia of the old, run down places. Just blow it up and build a better one (I don't actually live there, so if this is wrong let me know). A bunch of my progressive friends are upset because the owners of a corner lot near me are not going to renew the lease for a terrible diner that currently sits there. Instead they will lease to a new CVS that will be built. "The food is terrible and nobody eats there," I say. "But it's been there forever and is a landmark," they reply. It's really about a chain store displacing a sacred locally owned small business. Whenever we're around there, my new favorite thing to do is point out how we need something and how great it would be if there were a CVS near there.

[John]

So it is not on the site, it is blocks away? Then I take it back. Who cares. All my liberal friends keep telling me how great they think it is they are "building a mosque on the site of the old WTC". No shit. That is not on the site. Who cares if it is two blocks away. I thought it was actually going to be on the site or at least across the street. Nevermind. My mistake.

[kinnath]

Manhattan community board votes to allow construction of controversial Muslim community center near Ground Zero.

Yes, this is much ado about nothing.

[John]

Near to me means across the street. Two blocks is a long ways in a city as dense as New York. It might as well be in Brooklyn.

[Solanum]

The proposed center, called the Cordoba House

A community center so elegant that the entire interior is lined with soft Corinthian leather.

[Just Dropping By]

I thought it was "rich" Corinthian leather rather than "soft"? (The commercials are on YouTube, but I can't access them to check.)

[Ricardo Montalban]

Yes, indeed, it was "rich" Corinthian leather. In the new, Chrysler ... CorrrrrrrrrrdooooooBA!

[Pro Libertate]

It's "soft Corinthian leather."

[Nick]

Link SugarFreed for our enjoyment?

[Pro Libertate]

Apparently so. Try again.

[marlok]

How exactly is it "racist" to oppose the building of a religious temple? If I protested the building of a Methodist church, would that be racist too?

And, agreed, the whole story is just idiot-bait that the media assumes will be popular with the mouth-breathers.

[Pat B.]

And, agreed, the whole story is just idiot-bait that the media assumes will be popular with the mouth-breathers.

No, no, it's the JEWS in the media trying to create sympathy.

[Pat]

Like he said mouth-breathers.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

How exactly is it "racist" to oppose the building of a religious temple? If I protested the building of a Methodist church, would that be racist too?

No. That would be enlightened.

[The Gobbler]

Cordoba? Like in Caliphate of C?rdoba (929 to 1031)? You mean the Spanish land Usama bin Laden says the Muslims should once again rule?

Just a coincidence I guess.

[R C Dean]

They might as well call it the Jihad Center.

[Chris]

nothing to see here, please disperse

[P Brooks]

Manhattan community board votes to allow construction of controversial Muslim community center near Ground Zero.

Just RTFA; oddly, no mention of the actual property owner. I guess it's immaterial.

[John]

It is Manhattan. No one owns anything, especially not land or buildings. Everything must be cleared by the collective.

[mr simple]

But what about their debt to society or the government, who builds roads and the free market and makes all things possible? Surely you're not saying people should have discretion over their own property and by extension labor and selves. Think of the common good.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

+1

those capitalist scum property owners were born in hospitals that are serviced by roads and sewers and other government services.

All their lives are belong to Obama!

[D.J. Drugs]

All their base are belong to the State.

[gabe]

calling all IP nazis

suck on this

do any of you morons have an answer...no

[gullible's travels]

Ok, I'll take the OT bait. The graph she presents at about 12:40 is deceptive because she is comparing utilitarian items to recreational items. Markets for utilitarian items are, of course, going to be bigger. I don't know why she didn't include the market for "food" as well.

Also, comparing IP for clothing, which can be designed in 30 minutes by one person to IP for software which might take a team of people months or years to design and develop is dodgy.

[Solanum]

The AP's Stupid Story About the New "Deadly, Ultra-Pure Heroin"

Mexican drug smugglers are increasingly peddling a form of ultra-potent heroin that sells for as little as $10 a bag and is so pure it can kill unsuspecting users instantly, sometimes before they even remove the syringe from their veins.

ZOMG IT MAY KILLS YOU JUST BY LOOKING AT IT

[Ska]

Is the point of the story just how cheap heroine is these days? $10 a bag? Ultra pure? Shit....stomped on coke is like $50 for half a gram. This new super smack sounds like a steal!

[John]

And I should care why? I wonder if AP is on the drug cartels' payroll. Nothing brings up demand for smack like stories about it killing people. If you watch that movie American Gangster, that is how that guy got ahead in the heroin business. They would brand all of their heroin with a sticker. Then they would sell a few bags of uncut stuff that would kill a couple of people. Once word got out about how strong their stuff was, they sold the cut stuff faster than they could make it.

[gabe]

"I wonder if AP is on the drug cartels' payroll"...more like the AP is controlled by the same people that get a cut of the drug cartel's profits.

The same families that shipped Opium to China in the 1830's never got out of the trade. The same people that have the power to make the uS or UK military act on their personal business interest during the opium wars are the same people who shipped drugs in the 1980's(CIA) are the same people who have made ending the drug war a taboo topic among the two controlled political parties.

[Citizen Nothing]

That's why my newspaper is cutting many of its ties with the AP -- we weren't getting a big enough cut of the smack profits.

[Tonio]

And don't forget that those "families" are actually cleverly disguised extraterrestrial reptilians.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

another victory for the WOD: cheaper, more potent drugs.

[Zeb]

You can overdose on heroin? Who could have imagined such a thing.

[Nick]

Dead drug user sounds like a terrible business model. I'd rather be selling to alive drug user who will do anything he can to pay any price I demand for my awesome shit.

[Draco]

We'll know that religious strife is ended when we read stories about Christian Community Centers and B'nai Brith Centers being built in Saudi Arabia.

[King Abdullah]

Well, maybe a couple wouldn't hurt.

[?]

It's extra-super-racist to know why the name "Cordoba" has such prominence in the, uh, effort.

CORDOBACARE!

[Pro Libertate]

Soft, Corinthian healthcare.

Apropos of nothing, Corinth is in Greece.

[J sub D]

Mexican drug smugglers are increasingly peddling a form of ultra-potent heroin that sells for as little as $10 a bag and is so pure it can kill unsuspecting users instantly, sometimes before they even remove the syringe from their veins.

If you've ever dealt with junkies you know that the mindset is "Where can I get some?"

[John]

Exactly. That is why I wondered above if AP isn't on the cartels' payroll. That is fabulous publicity.

[Warty]

Been watching Breaking Bad? Jesse sends his dealers to Narcotics Anonymous meetings to talk about that awesome blue meth.

[John]

I know a couple of people who had major coke problems back in the 80s. Every time they tried to quit, their dealer would send them free shit. No kidding.

[Jenny Craig]

I have the same problem with Dunkin' Donuts.

[BakedPenguin]

Quit fucking spoiling Breaking Bad for those of us getting it on Netflix, dicklord.

[Warty]

Proceed to the 21st century and start torrenting the episodes, fuckpile.

[BakedPenguin]

Don't tell me to learn anything new, asssuck. My aging mind is weighed down heavily enough having to acknowledge the mere fact of your existence.

[J sub D]

Rand Paul campaign shake-up begins.

Rand Paul is no more a libertarian than Bush the Lesser was a small government conservative.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Then perhaps you should define what an actual libertarian is for us. If I had to guess based on the posters here, I'd guess libertarian means "a trannie that wants to wreck his country".

[BakedPenguin]

Quit scamming for dates, dicklord. there are plenty of tran boards you can go to for that.

[Fluffy]

I am not a trannie.

[P Brooks]

Full disclosure - I live in Detroit whose metro area has the largest concentaration of Muslims in the U.S.

You can tell by all of the terrorist strikes not inflicted on Wayne County.

Human tripwires are totally the way to go.

[Jimmy Lou Lou]

LOL, I think the US needs to mind its own business.

Lou
http://www.complete-anonymity.at.tc

[Warty]

Obama orders 1,200 National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexican border.

Open it up, open it up, open it
Living for the trade

[Dangerman]

You know, I have all the albums, but a Clutch Post by Warty always gets a view from me.

Because someday, I'ma get up early and beat him to it.

Someday.

[John]

I still can't get over the journalist who moved to Alaska and rented the house next door to Sarah Palin. That is just bizarre.

[Warty]

What's most bizarre is that it's not Andrew Sullivan.

[John]

I am sure he is furious that he didn't think of it first. And if I had the house on the other side of Palin, I would be on the phone to Sullivan right taking his life savings and 401K in return for renting my house for a few months.

[Ernie the Bear]

Remember "The Peter Principle"? I do. I was thinking about it, just yesterday.

"In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence."

This seems like a perfect description of Palin's career.

For the last 15 years, the Mat-Su Borough ("The Valley") was, and continues to be, the fastest-growing area of the state. "The Valley" encompasses the city of Wasilla, of which, Palin was mayor, and during the time in question. By almost any measure you can come up with, Palin was an extremely popular, and extremely effective mayor. Property and violent crimes were low. Business-friendly environment, low property taxes, relatively cheap housing and commercial property. Granted, she didn't really create any of the policies that enabled these things, but she was smart and well-advised enough to not tamper with the successful city she inherited.

Then, in 2006, her handlers rolled her well-known and undeniable mayoral success story inside a thin veneer of conservatism, and frankly, hot-MILFy-ness, and used the result to whack an unpopular liberal former governer accross the nose, like a bad puppy. I don't even know who engineered the campaign, but it was masterfully executed.

Then everything went to shit. The day she moved into the Governor's Mansion in Juneau, she demonstrably "Petered Out".

Pointless Trivia: At 25,000 square miles, if the Mat-Su Borough were its own state, it would be 40th in size, displacing West Virginia. It would also be larger than RI, DE, CT, and NJ, combined. Occupied by roughly 60,000 people.

[kinnath]

Well, you have a different operational model of "near" than I do 😉

In my mind, "near" equals walking distance, and two blocks is well within "near".

[kinnath]

Fucking threaded comments. This belongs upstream.

[Ragin Cajun]

It's OK. Your comments were "near" his.

[kinnath]

+1

[Rasmus]

Your comment is close enough.

[Sandi]

I took a shit on Ground Zero once.

[alan]

If by Ground Zero, you mean Hiroshima '45 that must be quite a rash you have on your tushy.

[P Brooks]

I had dinner at Windows on the World once. The best part? It was the only place in Manhattan where you couldn't see those fucking hideously ugly towers.

[Rhywun]

No joke. The whole complex was butt-ugly, sixties-era "urban renewal" at its worst. That said, it took me about five years to come around to the idea that they should have just rebuilt the damn thing the way it was, rather than witness the joke the whole thing has become.

[D.J. Drugs]

Was the land taken by eminent domain? Give it back.

[Rhywun]

Of course it was. The blocks were considered a "slum" (most likely a lie) and therefore open to "improvement".

[Skid Marx]

Each month Census gives Labor a figure on the number of workers it has hired. That figure goes into the closely followed monthly employment report Labor provides. For the past two months the hiring by Census has made up a good portion of the new jobs.

Labor doesn't check the Census hiring figure or whether the jobs are actually new or recycled. It considers a new job to have been created if someone is hired to work at least one hour a month.

One hour! A month! So, if a worker is terminated after only one hour and another is hired in her place, then a second new job can apparently be reported to Labor . (I've been unable to get Census to explain this to me.)

Here's a note from a Census worker -- this one from Manhattan:

"John: I am on my fourth rehire with the 2010 Census.

"I have been hired, trained for a week, given a few hours of work, then laid off. So my unemployed self now counts for four new jobs.

"I have been paid more to train all four times than I have been paid to actually produce results. These are my tax dollars and your tax dollars at work.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/b.....z0p30Hz3lI

[Skid Marx]

Each month Census gives Labor a figure on the number of workers it has hired. That figure goes into the closely followed monthly employment report Labor provides. For the past two months the hiring by Census has made up a good portion of the new jobs.

Labor doesn't check the Census hiring figure or whether the jobs are actually new or recycled. It considers a new job to have been created if someone is hired to work at least one hour a month.

One hour! A month! So, if a worker is terminated after only one hour and another is hired in her place, then a second new job can apparently be reported to Labor . (I've been unable to get Census to explain this to me.)

Here's a note from a Census worker -- this one from Manhattan:

"John: I am on my fourth rehire with the 2010 Census.

"I have been hired, trained for a week, given a few hours of work, then laid off. So my unemployed self now counts for four new jobs.

"I have been paid more to train all four times than I have been paid to actually produce results. These are my tax dollars and your tax dollars at work.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/b.....z0p30Hz3lI

[D-FENS]

I've noticed a similar thing in Seattle. Apparently I haven't been putting enough hours in and might get canned, but there's only so much time I can bill for calling people and leaving messages that they never return. They only give out small batches of assignments at a time, which is silly, because a good chunk of them are easy to complete, and the balance take much time to track down. (Like the 80/20 rule, but more like 60/40.) I could be working more of the easy cases while mixing in repeat attempts on the others.

One of our posters gave me crap because I opted for the government job rather than be willing to take a "crappy" one, but frankly, I hate to bother people and consider the census to be a crappy job. I've been applying for a number of manual labor positions, but the economy appeared to be so bad that if a position for dog shit pickup opened, my professional demeanor, clean background and eagerness to work would be outshined by the many other people with documented dog shit pickup experience. Fortunately, the number of job postings seems to be improving, so I think I'm going to quit this and focus more time on the job hunt, and trades education.

Oh, and my CA state tax refund check arrived... Never thought I'd see that! I'd better cash it quick.

[Mike M.]

Far more offensive to me than a mosque near Ground Zero was Obama's so-called "tribute" to Daniel Pearl, where he stated that Daniel Pearl was "lost", and that his beheading was a "moment that captured the world's imagination".

What the fuck?? Obama, there is something seriously wrong with you buddy.

[alan]

I wasn't paying attention when he said that, but man, how did something that fucked up coming from him escape my attention until now.

[Mike M.]

His supine lickspittles in the mainstream press chose to ignore this bit of appalling insouciance. I'll bet you can probably imagine why.

[Daffy]

Soups up!

[Slut Bunwalla]

"[Obama] needs to take a Valium before he comes in and talks to Republicans," Sen. Pat Roberts (Kan.) told reporters. "He's pretty thin-skinned."

RACIST!

[Jefe]

@Skid Marx -

That Census worker sounds like he is stuck in an unfortunate sequel to the movie, "Groundhog Day." What to call it...?

[Rhywun]

Is it too late to point out that whether these folks want to build a mosque near Ground Zero is nobody's goddamn business but the building owner's? UNLESS - and I have a sneaking suspicion this might be true, cuz that's just the way things work around here - my tax dollars are paying for it.

[Rhywun]

Guess so, since I shut down conversation 🙂