Quote of the Day: Love Monopoly, My Philosophy, Don't Go Fooling With Private Property.

I thought I was up to speed on the philosophy of Ringo Starr, but twice today I've been surprised by this earthy libertarian gem from the former Beatles drummer: "Everything government touches turns to crap."

Here's a citation from a commenter at the American Spectator. Here's another from post-modern neo-feminist libertarian cyberpunk Becky Chandler. Strike the Root expands this comment into a more general Ringo's Law.

Maybe it's not as memorable as John Lennon's reply when asked whether Ringo was the best drummer in rock: "He wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles." But I'm amazed I'd never heard it before. The comment is in keeping with the Fab Four's longstanding objections to intrusive government:

 

It may just be a specimen of the traditional Skouse thrift the Daily Mail referred to in this two-year-old story on the souring of Ringo's personality:

Perhaps as a legacy of his impoverished childhood in Liverpool, Ringo will not tolerate waste. Consequently, the multi-millionaire insists the leftovers from his table at the trendy Chinese eaterie are bagged up for him to reheat the next day.

Everyone who crosses his path - even complete strangers in the street - are habitually treated to his trademark two-fingered salute and his "Peace and Love" catchphrase.

In fact, his obsessive Peace sign flashing has increasingly become the source of much bemusement, not to mention ridicule, in Tinseltown.

Starr, who moved to Monte Carlo for tax purposes in the seventies, has long been singing his own personal No No Song to the confiscatory state, and his support for private property has never been in question. But if anybody has a date or context for this blunt aperçu, the comments are wide open.

Peace and love, Ringo, peace and love…

Comments

[?]

"Government" was John's nickname.

I mean, look what he did to Yoko. She used to be cool.

[SIV]

+1

[Ted S.]

Every time I hear Lennon sing "Imagine no possessions" in that horrible dirge, I imagine Yoko Ono holding no intellectual property rights to John's music, and her living in abject poverty.

[John]

He also wrote his son Jillian out of his will. So I guess he wanted his son not to have to imagine that. John was a real bastard. There were signs he was trying to reform in the last year of his life. But, sadly he was murdered and we are just left with the bastard part.

[Episiarch]

Yoko has tried to freeze Julian out since she had Sean, and John went along with it. "Hey Jude" was written by Paul for Julian because he felt bad about how shitty John treated him. At least Julian had some talent and was able to make some money on his own...unlike Sean, who is a talentless hack.

[John]

Lennon, even though he was world famous and by all accounts wildly charismatic in person, was at heart that dorky guy everyone knows in high school who marries a nasty manipulative woman who treats him like shit because he doesn't think he deserves any better. He let Yoko completely rule his life. In his personal life, he truly had no balls.

[Tman]

Sean was in Nashville a few (many) years ago with one of his shitty bands and was trying to find some weed. A friend of ours was called to assist in the hunt for said weed. The dealer didn't want to come out to deliver so the story goes that Sean shouted over the phone to the guy "tell him I'll sing fucking Imagine for him if he comes to the hotel!".

Classy dude, that Sean.

[Episiarch]

Yoko has spoiled that pimply-faced wannabee since birth. What do you expect? MOVE OUT OF THE DAKOTA SEAN

[John]

How pathetic of a touring musician do you have to be not to be able to score weed? That is tantamount to not being able to score a groupy.

[Enough About Palin]

As a former road musician, I can tell you from personal experience that some times it can be difficult. Go out for twelve weeks spending the last four in someplace like Montana.Unless you've brought a ton of it with you, you just might run out and if it happens to be a dry period, you're kind of fucked.

I was in the Dakotas somewhere when we ran out so we started to work the crowd for it. This chick tells me her biker boyfriend can help us out. So I ask if he can, mentioning that his girlfriend had told us he could. He says, "Well, she was wrong." I told him that he should do a better job keeping her in line. That's when I learned you don't tell a biker that he can't control his woman.

On the flip-side, I remeber people coming up to us with all kinds of goodies all on their own. In a small town, it's very possible that the guy is part of a sting. Those small town sherrifs love to pop musicians. I suspect it's because they don't get laid enough and it causes them to be greatly envious.

[Rhayader]

Hey, he's done worse for coke.

[Jeffersonian]

I could go for a few nights at the Dakota, as long as I didn't have to fuck Yoko.

[Uh]

It isn't about John.

[comatus]

Stu Sutcliffe was the real talent in that band. And Pete Best is alive and well, married 40 years to the same woman, and still playing, just saying.

[Rhayader]

Be right back, just gotta send Ringo some fan mail....

[smartass sob]

Ringo's the only one of the four Beatles who ever had a lick of sense.

[Slut Bunwalla]

I don't think that's entirely true, as Paul seems to have pretty decent business chops and George definitely had more musical sensibility than he was usually given credit for, but Ringo's always been my favorite.

[Jocon307]

"Ringo's always been my favorite."

Mine too.

[Asshole]

Well he's Jewish.

[CorrieWis]

He's 100% Anglo-Saxon and raised Anglican.

[Andrew the Noisy]

I'm ready to bet money that he's the last one standing.

[jerry]

Right, start a dead pool now that the game is already half over!

[Andrew the Noisy]

If I include Pete Best, will that make you happy?

[CraftyWilyVeteran]

Won't be surprised if you're right, which would be pretty amazing for a guy who barely survived his childhood. But my preferred scenario would be a repeat of the Thomas Jefferson/John Adams uber-coincidence of dying on the same day, which just happened to be the 4th of July. Wonder what day of the year would have the most meaning for Beatles fans.

[SIV]

Here's another from post-modern neo-feminist libertarian cyberpunk Becky Chandler.

So all that means she shaves (at least) her legs, right?

[MikeP]

John Lennon's reply when asked whether Ringo was the best drummer in rock: "He wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles."

An excellent example for teaching comparative advantage!

[Jersey Patriot]

[phone]

[Crusader Rabbit]

[phone]

[Just to be negatory]

-3

[Just to be imaginary]

+i

[Just to be derivative]

d/dx

[Texpundit]

/0

OH SHI~~~!

[OhioCASB]

Damn you! You beat me to it. ohiocasb.org/blog /comparative-advantage-explained

[Draco]

I've long amused myself by positing an "Objectivist message" in the lesser known Beatles tune (penned by George Harrison) "Think for Yourself" from the album Rubber Soul.

Do what you want to do
And go where you're going to
Think for yourself
'cause I won't be there with you

[John]

They were not as "leftist" as boomers like to remember. Take Revolution for example. It is always portrayed as this big anti-establishment anti-Vietnam song. Yet, most of the song is Lennon slamming on the new Left and people "carrying pictures of Chairman Mao".

[Rhayader]

Hah yeah, they certainly donated very little to the modern-day concept of progressive liberalism, that's for sure. They were balls-to-the-wall hedonists.

[John]

John was an ass and Ringo was a great drummer. Put some big name gonzo drummer like Moon or Bonham or Ginger Baker in the Beatles and it would have been a disaster. Ringo had a sense of place and timing and knew how to stay out of the way of the other three members, which is no small feat. His drumming on "A Day in the Life" is fantastically understated and perfect for the moment.

Leave Ringo alone!!

[Rhayader]

Plus Goerge Martin liked him more than he liked Pete Best. Who am I to disagree?

[J sub D]

Leave Ringo alone!!

I get it, you like Ringo. Just don't go making any YouTube videos, OK?

[BakedPenguin]

This is an important point. Some ego maniac on drums would have meant the break up occuring a few years earlier, competing with the inflate heads of Lennon/McCartney. Instead, Ringo accepted his role as a supporting player.

As a bass player, I used to make fun of Michael Anthony, the bassist for Van Halen. But the parts he played were exactly right for the band he was in - if he'd tried to grab the spotlight, it would not have worked, and the band would have been screwed.

[Rhayader]

Yeah that "Running with the Devil" bassline is just kickass right?

I know what you mean though. Complexity is not always (or even often?) an indication of quality.

[John]

Exactly. someone has to be the guts of the band. You can't have all front men. Well, you can but you end up like Cream or Buffalo Springfield and doing like two records before the whole thing blows up.

[gsg900]

Those who diss Anthony do not understand his essential contributions to a great moment in hard rock.

If he and Eddie hadn't kept the basic rhythm going Alex's lousy drumming would have been exposed to the world. They cover up for his faults so well on the early albums it would make Oliver Stone proud.

...and the backing vocals were an essential part of the brand...

Great musicians sometimes do not make great band mates. Having a lust for the spotlight can kill it all in a split second. And, it's usually the quiet guys who have the best opinions. They keep their mouths shut for years so when they speak it's fully formed...

[CraftyWilyVeteran]

Paul said once, "If Ringo didn't like it, it was out." And there's a clip somewhere of a discussion about possibly doing a rooftop concert, and John and George are like, nhaaa, don't like the idea, and Ringo says, "I'd like to go up on the roof." There's this double take and they say, "You would?" And the next thing you know...

[RT]

You really think Alex was a lousy drummer? Please elaborate. I'm not a VH fanboy, just curious about your comment.

[Dagny T.]

John, this calls for a Chris Crocker-style YouTube video. I only hope you have enough eyeliner.

[John]

I assume that is the "Leave Britney Alone" youtube? And yes it does.

[TXLimey]

In full Scouse accent please.

[Jeffersonian]

Yeah, but Neil Peart would have made the Beatles a decent band rather than, as John Waters said, "a loaf of white bread with a haircut."

[John]

Neil Pert would have destroyed them the moment he started penning lyrics. And he is as overrated a drummer as Ringo is an underrated one. Seriously, the only song Rush ever recorded that rocked was "Working Man" and he didn't play on it. Peart is supposed to be some gonzo drummer but I never have heard it. And I like Rush. But I have never gotten why he is considered so great. Listen to any live recording of Baker, Moon, Bonham, Stewart Copeland or if you don't like old guys Jimmy Chamberlain and it blows any live Rush recording away.

[Episiarch]

Neil Peart is, in a technical sense, an incredible drummer. Just technically amazing. You might not like his music--I am no Rush fan myself--but he has mad skillz.

[John]

That is what they tell me. And I like Rush. But, I have never heard Peart lay down a beat that ever grabbed me. What he plays may be technically brilliant. But if a drummer doesn't put down something that is moving, who cares how brilliant it is?

[ClubMedSux]

Neil Peart is to drummers what Maynard Ferguson is to trumpeters: somebody who can wow those who actually play the instrument with their technical prowess but rarely if ever take a good song and make it great. Compare Peart to Mitch Mitchell (or Ferguson to Miles) and there's no contest when it comes to crafting a song.

[John]

I agree. I have heard my whole life how great Peart is. And I don't doubt the drummers who worship him that he is technically great. That is what I find so frustrating about him. Why the hell doesn't he ever just rip it like Mitch Mitchell does in Fire?

[JB]

Watch some of his drum solos on YouTube.

[AblueSilkworm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVfMwi2MGvI
Drums. Drums in the deep. Or maybe not. But the geek in me just came.

[JB]

Watch some of his drum solos on YouTube.

[Enough About Palin]

I saw Ferguson at a ballroom back in the early 70's. Un. Fucking. Believable.

[capitol l]

I am going to go ahead and agree with you on this one, John.

Whenever Rush comes on I purposely listen very closely to hear Pert play, and I just don't get it. He plays a little more layered and complex than most rock drummers, but I don't think he is any better than an above average jazz drummer.

You see, I am basically a jazz purist.

[capitol l]

Oh yeah, ditto Rhayader, Terry Bozio is a fucking monster.

[John]

I am an old time R&B purist. I love the old motown drummers and Al Jackson Jr. are monsters in my book.

[ClubMedSux]

I always assumed R&B purists listened to Stax. Motown always seemed like R&B for white people to me.

[John]

The funk brothers were awesome. I don't see how anyone could not like Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson. Granted, the Supremes are wildly overrated. But, I don't see how someone could claim to like old R&B and not like a good chunk of Motown.

[ClubMedSux]

That's a fair point. I guess I tend to think of the Wall-of-Sound, Top 40 Motown artists, but they did have cutting-edge guys like Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder.

[newscaper]

Peart doesn't seem to put as much into it these days, but his work on the older song Xanadu is amazing by any standard.

[Dagny T.]

"You see this, Randy? If somebody like Alex Lifeson gives you a fucking t-shirt to put on, you're putting the fucking thing on. I don't care if you don't wear shirts."

[SugarFree]

"What I can't figure out is how that guy hasn't died from lack of service yet."

[Rhayader]

Frigg off Bubbles.

[John]

Lifeson is absolutely the most unoriginal guitar player in the history of Rock and Roll.

[kcpopps]

and you like Rush...
ha. silly, covetous comments now categorized appropriately.

[Episiarch]

"Smokes--let's go."

[Dagny T.]

"I guess I was a bit of a dick, you were a bit of a dick, there was a lot of people bein' dicks."

[Rhayader]

I try to be a bit of a role model for Trina and the other kids around the park. I think it's good; like, if I'd had a role model when I was younger, learning how to grow dope, things would have been a lot smoother. Now if some kid wants to grow dope they can come talk to to me, and instead of growing dope 6 or 7 times through denial and error, they're gonna get it right the first time and have some good dope.

[RT]

How true, the other Rush members are quoted as saying a computer couldn't drum better than him.....perfect timing. I think Peart is Autistic possibly Aspergers.

[Rhayader]

If you want some really badass drumming check out the better part of Frank Zappa's disography. Terry Bozio is one crazy bastard.

Let me tell ya. I love this man, I work for this man. But this show has like pushed me, beyond the brink of what I can physically, withstand. My hands are, I mean look at these calluses, Jesus Christ. I've had a hard tour, I mean, Jesus, we had the, the fucking road manager committed suicide, then my girlfriend fell out the fucking window. It's been hard you know? And now man, I mean shit, this fucking show, I mean, I gotta do two, two fucking shows two nights in a row? You know what it's like to beat the shit out of the fucking drums, two shows, two nights in a row? I mean I can't fucking, I hate that kind of shit, I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE! I can't take it any more. My hands ache I feel like I have been pounding nails I feel like I have been hitting my God damn hands with a hammer!

[John]

I have never been a Zappa head. But he only ever had top musicians behind him. Getting invited to play with Zappa was pretty much the gold standard of approval as a rock musician.

[Rhayader]

Yeah Zappa ranks right below atonal avant-garde screaming on the accessibility scale, but he had some downright awesome stuff. Anybody interested should start out with Hot Rats and Overnite Sensation, maybe move on to Apostrophe and Joe's Garage from there. If you haven't been scared away by then you might even like his truly weird stuff.

[capitol l]

You ever watch 'Baby Snakes'?

Live music, and some of the craziest claymation I have ever seen.

[John]

Once a very long time ago. I can't remember much about it other than it was deeply strange.

[Timon19]

Jesus, John. Have you really ever heard the man drum?

[Enough About Palin]

Steve Gadd would have worked out well.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Totally agreed, John. It's still a funny quote, but I agree.

Then again, I have a whole Ringo/Garfunkel/Oates revisionist theory of rock, which I'll be happy to share one day when we all have time, and I have finished my monograph on Andrew Ridgley as the real genius of eighties pop.

[John]

I have my Mike Mills, Art Garfunkel, Oats theory of people who were talented but in the end just not cool enough to be rock stars.

[Rhayader]

Shit, look at poor Oats, he wasn't even cool enough to get a first name.

[Episiarch]

Art has a beautiful voice--he really does--but in the end it was Paul writing the songs, and in the Bob Dylan tradition, if you write the totally awesome songs, and your voice kind of sucks, it doesn't matter.

[John]

He has an fantastic voice. Ever see the SNL send up of Simon and Garfunkel where it is a folk duo where one guy sings and plays the guitar and the other just claps? It is a pretty hysterical put down of Garfunkel. Must have been done as a payback to Simon for hosting the show so many times.

[Episiarch]

Actually, there is an SNL where Art comes on solo and does "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme" by himself. Sounded fucking incredible without Paul's shitty voice fucking it up.

[John]

I think Paul has a great voice. But, all of his records could have sounded just as good or better had Garfunkel been on them. Their voices had a kind kismet in the way they fit together.

[Rhayader]

Haha, nice. Yeah I think Paul Simon's voice is actually at the higher end of the pop continuum, and his songwriting is unparalleled.

[Does Anyone...]

...read these long, narcissistic sub-threads? I know I don't.

[Does Anyone...]

Not that there's anything...you know.

[cheeflo]

To say nothing of the drumming in the medley on Abbey Road. Awesome.

[P Brooks]

Don't forget, those nice (relatively) clean cut young boys from Liverpool spent a lot of time playing crazy strip clubs in West Berlin.

They might have learned a different set of lessons than the kids at the London School of Economics.

[John]

It wasn't West Berlin, it was Hamburg, which was even wilder than Berlin. It was and is like a really funky and sleazy Veges. I love Hamburg.

[Cabeza de Vaca]

That is a good point John. The red light district in Hamburg is like no place else I've ever been. A truly strange place.

[comatus]

And in Hamburg, they opened for Johnny and The Hurricanes. From Rossford, Ohio. All right you guys, rise and shine.

[CraftyWilyVeteran]

And it was also in Hamburg that they met those OTHER Hurricanes. Rory Storm had (at the time) a more successful band. And he had this nifty little drummer....

[Fluffy]

Whether Ringo was a good drummer or not, John Lennon was a real dick.

John Lennon was immensely wealthy and a worldwide celebrity in a creative field, and naturally [because he was a dick] he spent half his time talking smack about the guys who made him that money and got him that fame.

"Paul McCartney was a superficial dumbass" [paraphrase of numerous Lennon statements] Yeah, but because he was good-looking, could sing, and could write music, YOU GOT TO FUCKING BE RICH, you ungrateful douche.

"Ringo had no talent." Yeah, but he was there backing you up when YOU MADE ALL YOUR MONEY, you ungrateful douche.

John Lennon = one more dead guy for me to be mad at.

[Episiarch]

John was a douchebag, but let's not pretend that he wasn't the most talented guy in that band. Paul was talented too, but Lennon was a fucking genius. He was also a massive dipshit, but much of that was caused by Yoko. John was actually pretty solid before Yoko.

[Rhayader]

+1. Who cares if he was a dick, the man could pen a tune.

[Charlie]

Favorite Lennon story courtesy of a waitress/groupie friend in LA.

John was in his mid-70s Hollywood phase. This night he was vexed at not being able to get any traction with his waitress. He went into the Ladies' room, bought a Kotex from the vending machine and tied it around his head.

When his next round of charm didn't grab her, he said in exasperation, "Don't you know who I am?" to which she rejoined, "Sure. You're some schmuck with a Kotex on his head."

[John]

That about sums it up. He was immensely talented. He is one of the great singers in Rock and Roll history and a great song writer. But he, like McCartney, needed someone to tell him "no" and reign his worst creative excesses. After he became famous, only McCartney and the other Beatles could tell him no. For example, it was McCartney and Harrison who told him that Revolution was too slow to be a single and needed to be redone. It pissed him off to no end. But he did it and the song was better for it. It was McCartney who told him that "Come Together" sounded like a bad Chuck Berry song and put the funky base line in we know and love. After the Beatles broke up, without the check of McCartney his music went downhill fast.

[BakedPenguin]

And vice versa. McCartney's solo shit (I include Wongs in that) was excerable.

[Episiarch]

Can't you just live and let die?

[Rhayader]

Hey now, Band on the Run was a pretty good album. "Mrs. Vanderbilt" and "Nineteen Hundred Eighty-Five" are both great songs.

[Jim]

Band on the Run was a pretty good album. Yes

[John]

Yes. Lennon and McCartney were the only two people who could tell each other that the other one's music was crap. Actually Lennon's girlfriend during the lost weekend says that Lennon realized this and wanted to start writing with McCartney again. But, Yoko appeared and put that idea to an end.

[Isaac Bartram]

At least I can remember something Wings did. I'm hardpressed to remember anything John Lennon did after the breakup - except getting killed that is.

[SugarFree]

Scratch below the surface and I think many great, or at least enduring, bands have two people with incompatible personalities but incredibly synergistic talents. (Of course, there are plenty of lone genius bands.)

Bauhaus, The Smiths, The Replacements... a lot of musicians need a two-way tempering of their worst instincts.

[ClubMedSux]

Don't forget Wilco. Once Jay Bennett left the band it was downhill fast.

[John]

I think Jeff Tweedy left Uncle Tupelo specifically so he could be an unencumbered dick.

[ClubMedSux]

Yeah, I think you're right. Too bad he couldn't realize that he was at his best when Farrar or Bennett was keeping him in check.

[BakedPenguin]

The Police are a great example of this, even though Sting wrote almost all their songs, and nearly all of their good ones.

Sting needed to get punched by Stewart Copeland once in a while to reign in his dickishness. Once he was off on his own, it was look out below.

It's sad that on Outlandos D'Amour, Sting made fun of moron celebrities who blather incessantly about the minutiae of their existence on the song Peanuts. Within about 6 years, he was the epitome of what he written about.

"It's all a game
You're not the same
Your famous name
The price of fame

Oh no - Try to liberate me
I said oh no - Stay and irritate me
I said oh no - Try to elevate me
I said oh no - Just a fallen hero

Don't wanna hear about the drugs you're taking
Don't wanna read about the love you're making
Don't wanna hear about the life you're faking
Don't wanna read about the muck they're raking

You sang your song
For much too long
The songs they're wrong
The bread has gone

Oh no..."

[Sting]

Dude, are you ripping on "Ten Summoner's Tales"? 'Cuz if you are I'm going to shove my lute so far up your ass your colon's gonna think it's at a renaissance fair.

[John]

Stewart Copeland, who by all accounts is every bit as grounded and genuine as Sting is not, calls Sting's Italian villa "The Magic Stingdom". Sting totally needs Copeland to kick his ass and puncture his vanity.

[Enough About Palin]

You know of the repalcements, Suge? Their drummer (Chris Mars)'s brother is a neighbor of mine. Chris does art now:

http://images.google.com/image.....a=1&q="Chris+Mars"+Art&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi;=&aql;=&oq;=&gs;_rfai=&start=0

[Brett Stevens]

Typical narcissistic behavior. Most people act like that and have no talent. Then again, when one looks over all of music, rock, jazz and blues just don't stand up as all that impressive.

[Fluffy]

BTW, speaking of the Beatles, I saw some special on the History Channel about them a few months ago, and you know what struck me?

In 1963 and 64, they had really short hair. I mean like "they would have the shortest hair in their high school in 2010" short hair. How the frick did Americans think these guys had dangerously and subversively provocative long hair? Maybe by 68 they had long hair, but when it was a controversy, McCartney had shorter hair than most Canadians.

[John]

They didn't. People conflate history. The Beatles were anything but subversive when they came over in 1964. They were teen idols. They were charming kids next door with funny accents. They had about as white bread of an image as possible. It wasn't until later, beginning with Lennon's "more popular than Jesus" comment that they were considered subversive.

[Isaac Bartram]

The Beatles music hit Australia about a year before they did in the US. I remember first hearing them on the radio in about February of 1963. Before the first pictures arrived all we could go by were the different DJs talking about their really strange hair.

It's worth remembering that most rock singers at the time had pompadours or jelly rolls (ducktail optional).

Let me assure you, for 1963, they had really long hair.

[John]

How interesting did their music sound at the time? It is hard for someone who grew up with them always being there to understand how they sounded at the time without knowing and listening to all that followed.

[kinnath]

February 1964
UK ~ Top Singles
Position / Title / Artist
01. Needles & Pins - The Searchers
02. I'm The One - Freddy & The Dreamers
03. Hippy Hippy Shake - Swinging Blue Jeans
04. Diane - The Batchelors
05. Glad All Over - Dave Clark Five
USA ~ Top Singles
Position / Title / Artists
01. I Wanna Hold Your Hand - Beatles
02. You Dont Own Me - Lesley Gore
03. Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um - Major Lance
04. She Loves You - The Beatles
05. Out Of Limits - Marketts

[kinnath]

March 31, 1964 - The Beatles hold the top five slots on Billboard's chart: (1) Can't Buy Me Love, (2) Twist and Shout, (3) She Loves You, (4) I Want To Hold Your Hand (5) Please Please Me--a musical first.

April 4, 1964 - The Beatles hold 14 slots on Billboard's Hot 100 chart.

I was only 7 then, but I still remember the coming of the Beatles quite vividly.

[Isaac Bartram]

By the way, I began to doubt my affection for the Beatles when in 1964 my then 41-year-old mother announced she "really liked those Beatles".

That's what's really wierd, the Beatles were sort of the first group that wasn't seen as noisy teenage rebellion. It was their personal conduct and political and social statements that got them into trouble later, not anything controversial about their music.

[John]

I would think in 1964 if you wanted to be subversive you would have been listening to Staxx or John Coltrane or something.

[ClubMedSux]

I gotta be honest... Coltrane was a revelation for me in high school but the more I got into jazz the less interested I became in him. I still think "Giant Steps" is a masterpiece but the ten-minute solos from later in his career that blew me away at first (think "Impressions") quickly grew boring.

[John]

I never got Coltrane for years. Then once when I was really upset, I mean existentially upset about my mother's illness Psalm Part IV happened to be playing on my computer for no apparent reason. And all of the sudden I got it. I listened to the music and I just stopped thinking. All of the pain and anguish just sort of washed over me. I felt it all but I didn't think about it. I have never had music be more heeling than that. After that I got it. I got what he was trying to do with the whole eastern mysticism thing. I stopped thinking and just listened. And now I like him. Although I don't listen to him casually. I have to make an effort to do it.

[Enough About Palin]

"I listened to the music and I just stopped thinking"

Tony must listen to a shit load of Coltrane.

[ClubMedSux]

(Just to clarify, I mean the album "Giant Steps," not just the song.)

[CorrieWis]

Ringo hasn't soured. He felt used and got mad. End of story. Anybody who used that one-and-only hissy fit as an excuse to write Ringo off probably already had. He's the same as always -- laid back, funny and underrated (thankfully, less so as time passes).

[kinnath]

Mike Douglas, or someone like that, interviewed Ringo after the breakup and asked him if he was closer to Paul or John. Ringo replied that when he was in London he was closer to Paul and in New York he was closer to John -- totally dead-pan delivery.

[Lurker Kurt]

+1 for Ringo. That is pretty funny!

[Dagny T.]

When my mum told me that Mr. Conductor on Shining Time Station was a rock star, I totally didn't believe her.

Kids shows actually had some cool stars on them back in the 80's- I just remembered Bowie was on the Snowman, which was pretty groovy.

[John]

And don't forget Samuel L. Jackson on the Electric Company. And pretty much every 70s rock star of note who hosted the Muppet Show. If you didn't host the Muppet Show, you were not a star in the 1970s.

[Sir Groovus Maximus]

That was Morgan Freeman John.

[Episiarch]

The Thin White Duke could guest star on Two and a Half Men and he'd still be cool. He has the Connery Ability to do anything and it has no effect on his coolness.

[BakedPenguin]

I still say Tin Machine was underrated. Of course, people have previously pointed out that I'm insane.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Tin Machine made a few good songs--"Baby Can Dance", "I Can't Read", "Bus Stop", "Goodbye Mr. Ed"...and, frankly, I rather like "Stateside", even though it's the most hated of their songs. On the whole it wasn't a terribly successful venture. But a lot of people overlook how important it was for Bowie's career. He'd been stagnant for a while, made two frankly shitty albums (I listened to Tonight once and can never, ever do so again), and Tin Machine gave him the kick in the pants he needed to get the imagination roaring again. Plus, Reeves Gabrel is an incredible guitarist.

[SugarFree]

He is a shape-shifter, you know.

[Episiarch]

Fuck you and your Venture Brothers fetish. You have a thing for Hank, don't you, you ascot-humping weirdo. This explains your fascination with Fred from Scooby Doo.

Normal people associate with Shaggy, you know.

[John]

What about people who hang out with scrappy?

[SugarFree]

Lowest of the low. Unless they are luring him into a bog or coal mine for easy disposal after brutal murder.

Scooby Dumb will just manage to kill himself if we leave him to his own devices long enough.

[T]

Dope smoking wastoids associate with Shaggy, you reprobate.

The rest of us were trying to figure out why somebody as hot as Velma was hanging out with some dipshit who wore an ascot. My guess is self-esteem and control issues. Dating a obviously closeted homosexual gives you the upper hand in that area.

[Rhayader]

A Ziggy Stardust-accompanied mushroom trip is one of my fondest college memories. Bowie rules.

[John]

Interestingly, it is said that none other than Ian Flemming said that Bowie would have been the best person to play James Bond. No shit.

[Slut Bunwalla]

You know...I can kinda see that working. I mean, back in the 80s. Like, after Let's Dance.

Oh, now that I think about it, these days he'd make a great Bond villain. Or he would for an old school Bond movie, anyway. Wouldn't work with these new Daniel Craig Bond films.

[Old RPM Daddy]

Didn't Ian Fleming die in about 1964? Was David Bowie famous then?

[cheeflo]

A young Hoagy Charmichael was how Fleming visualized Bond.

[Ska]

Larry Fishburne as Cowboy Curtis on Pee-Wee's playhouse.

[Episiarch]

Are you telling me I can dodge bullets?

[Joel]

No, Epi. I'm telling you that when you're stoned enough, you won't want to.

[ClubMedSux]

Or how about Miss Yvonne from Pee-Wee's Playhouse later playing Charlie's mom on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?

[Rick Henderson]

The animation looks remarkably like a work of (or rip-off of) Jay Ward, who created Rocky, Bullwinkle, Dudley Do-Right, George of the Jungle, etc.

Couldn't tell from the credits if Ward was involved or not.

[ev]

Word to this.

As a drummer, I can attest that we have a fucking JOB to do. (Bassists too, but maybe to a lesser degree.) Someone has to be there to lay down a groove. You can't drive an experimental car over bumpy terrain; there has to be a smooth foundation.

This was Ringo's gift.

My favorite thing about him was how level-headed he was. I've read that of all the hundreds of arguments that broke out musically between the band, only a few ever happened because of Ringo. By the end he would record with the other three even when they wouldn't record in the same room with one another.

In furthering my deep-seated belief that Radiohead is my generation's Beatles, Phil Selway=Ringo Starr. Amazing drummers with fucking mechanical time. Vibrating cessium atoms dream of being as solid as Phil. He has a job to do---reining in the others and providing a framework.

Fuck melody. All hail the rhythm section.

[mr simple]

I've always said a good drummer can make a good band great.

Also, the Beatles never pushed and reinvented music the way Radiohead does. Greatest band ever.

[ev]

As much as Radiohead has constantly recreated themselves...the Beatles were kinda the first band to do that. Not that Buddy Holly wouldn't have done it first if he hadn't you know. Died.

By the way, is it just me or is Srgt. Pepper anyone else's least favorite Beatles album? I do like it, and certainly more than the White Album...but they have better stuff out there.

For my money Magical Mystery Tour is my fave. (This is apparently heresy in some circles.) I adore Revolver and Abbey Road about the same level after that. Rubber Soul also makes me roll my eyes in orgasmic pleasure.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Please Please Me is my favorite. Yeah, it's their least innovative and all, but you know what? Every damn song on that album is fantastic. It's made of pure fun.

Magical Mystery Tour is really good though.

[John]

I bought the mono version of all the records off of Amazon this spring. And SGT was better than I remember it. She's Leaving, For the Benefit of Mr. Kite, and A Day in the Life are really good.

I agree with you about Magical Mystery Tour. I can't figure out why that record gets a bad rap. Fool on the Hill, Your Mother Should Know, Hello Goodbye, Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, All You Need is Love. Those are all classics. That record is amazing.

[jms]

Magical Mystery Tour gets a bad rap because the corresponding television show was absolute unwatchable garbage.

[ClubMedSux]

So I'm a little confused as to how Sgt. Pepper can be your least favorite Beatles album if you like it more than the White Album. I will say that, when I was in high school, Sgt. Pepper was my favorite Beatles album and its now lost that position hands down to Revolver. Depending on my mood I might put Rubber Soul or Magical Mystery Tour above it as well, and I would put the White Album above it if they had edited it down to one album.

[ev]

Ok, disclaimer: I haven't listened to the White Album nearly as much as the others. But when I've listened to it...I just don't get much out of it. While my guitar gently weeps is gorgeous. Dear Prudence is spectacular. Happiness is a warm gun.

After that and maybe a few others...It just seems so unfocused. Like a rambling writer unable to edit.

I think I'm with you. The White Album is an amazing ONE album. There's just so much fluff.

("You're a cashier!")

[Enough About Palin]

I have always felt that the artistic goal of The White Album was to demonstrate that they could write in every genre. It's got the Latin influenced Ob-la-di, Ob-la-Da, Country/folk Rocky Raccoon and even the luliby Good Night and whatever Bungalo Bill is.

Here's the entire White Album song list:

http://www.cduniverse.com/sear.....a/Beatles+(White+Album).htm

[Slut Bunwalla]

I agree with this.

[ClubMedSux]

I don't have any problem if you don't like the White Album (as I indicated above, I myself think it's bloated with filler). It's just that, if you like the White Album less than Sgt. Pepper, then by definition Sgt. Pepper can't be your least favorite Beatles album. That's what confused me.

[Jim]

It was my first album so I still like it.

[Some Guy]

It was probably a happy coincidence that Ringo only had enough chops to play the understated parts that the Beatles needed.
There are plenty of minimalist drummers that were more interesting. Charlie Watts and the CCR drummer (on some songs) come right to mind.

[John]

I have a bootleg of the Rolling Stones playing Midnight Rambler at Madison Square Garden in 1972. Watts is amazing on it. It is 12 minutes long, but there isn't a second of it that isn't interesting. You can tell that Keith doesn't know where the hell he is going next. But, Watts and Wyman are so good that they keep the entire thing together. Watts is a great drummer. Better than Ringo. But Ringo is still underrated.

[highnumber]

OMG! I agree 100% with you, John. Ringo = underrated, Charlie Watts = f'ing mega drummer. Yes.

[boocha]

Lennon was the best songwriter in The Beatles ... McCartney the best musician. Harrison was a decent lyricist and a very good musician while Ringo was the cherry on the Sundae ... great personality, above average drummer for his time, and clever to boot.

[&]

Now we can stop. Thank you.

[a dood]

LOL

[SugarFree]

Consequently, the multi-millionaire insists the leftovers from his table at the trendy Chinese eaterie are bagged up for him to reheat the next day.

Fuck off already. Maybe the man just knows the simple pleasure of having Kung Pao Chicken leftovers the next morning.

[Lurker Kurt]

I agree with you, SF.

No matter how rich I might become. I would take my left overs in order to eat them for breakfast next morning.

[Enough About Palin]

I always bring a little of my lunch home from work for my dog Heather (Dinners out too). I'm not rich, but if I were, I'd still be bringing Heather doggie bags. How she love the tasty foods!

[ClubMedSux]

Seriously. As an attorney it boggles my mind how some of my workers wouldn't be caught dead bringing home leftovers. Of course, they'll be the same ones who bitch and moan about how they'll pay off their bloated mortgages and luxury car payments after they're laid off.

[SugarFree]

My wife will order too big of a steak for her to eat so that I can shave the leftovers down for a steak sandwich. She's the bestest.

[CorrieWis]

His wealth doesn't matter. EVERYBODY should take home leftovers. Portion sizes are NUTS, and waste is environmentally and morally indefensible.

[Lou Biggs]

It actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Lou
http://www.ultimate-privacy.at.tc

[Lurker Kurt]

He also wrote his son Jillian out of his will.

WTF? I never knew that. I can understand not giving your ex-wife any money, but totally disinheriting your son?

What an asshole.

[Jonathan Richman]

This never happened to Pablo Picasso.

[Lurker Kurt]

Who sang that song, Jonathan?

[Slut Bunwalla]

The Modern Lovers. It's been covered by several artists, including David Bowie. Damn good song.

[Jonathan Richman]

Now if you'll excuse us, we've got alot alot alotta hard work today.

[John]

He got a "small payout" from Yoko. Yoko claims it was a million pounds. Julian claims it was less than 20,000. I am inclined to believe Julian.

[Anyway...]

Ringo, as a drummer for a 60s pop band, was as competent as he had to be. Comparing the relative worth of pop drummers is like...is like...what? Narcissistic internet masturbation?

[John]

As opposed to what? Comparing the relative value of sopranos? Jazz drummers? Come on out with it, are you a classical or a jazz degenerate snob?

[Rhayader]

Yeah seriously, how dare we allow a discussion to develop?

[ClubMedSux]

Isn't "narcissistic masturbation" redundant?

[prolefeed]

Consequently, the multi-millionaire insists the leftovers from his table at the trendy Chinese eaterie are bagged up for him to reheat the next day.

This is not uncommon. A lot of people become wealthy because they are very thrifty, and the principles they apply to business leak into their personal life.

[Pete Best]

The Beatles were wankers. Especially "Ringo".

[E.H. Munro]

John was a douchebag, but let's not pretend that he wasn't the most talented guy in that band. Paul was talented too, but Lennon was a fucking genius. He was also a massive dipshit, but much of that was caused by Yoko. John was actually pretty solid before Yoko.

George Harrison was the best of the lot, there's nothing that John or Paul ever wrote that compares with the best of George's solo work, like Marwa Blues, Forgive Me Lord and Give Me Love (Peace on Earth). Those are simply gorgeous songs. You're free to disagree with me, just know ahead of time that you're wrong. ;-7

Also, though it's long forgotten, George & Ringo were a hit factory back in the day (as Harrison wrote most of Ringo's best tunes).

[Chris R.]

What was cool about "Taxman" beyond its sentiment was its mathematical accuracy -- "one for me/nineteen for you." At the time, the British income tax for the highest earners was in fact one for me, nineteen for you -- 95 percent was the tax rate.

[Anita Dickens-Hyyde]

It's an old joke, but which of the Beatles was most gifted in terms of male endowment?

Peter Best

[K. Fitzsimons]

God, I feel shallow zeroing in on this, but... You're not supposed to take home leftovers now? Since when?

C'mon. How many people can afford to eat out who really would starve without that doggy bag? Very few. But if the food is great, why deny yourself the chance to enjoy all of it!

[Don]

"...turns to crap..."
I've always called it "The Reverse Midas Touch"

[charles]

I think this has to be the best comments thread I've ever seen in my life. Beatles, Van Halen, Hendrix (Mitch Mitchell),Rush,Zappa, Stax, Motown, Coltrane and wishing Yoko Ono never lived. All I need is a ranch dressing to dip it in.

[Ryan]

But nobody has mentioned Ringo's outstanding acting ability in his critically acclaimed film "Caveman"
Because I'm under 40, this film was the first place I had ever heard of him. Wonderful film... OK so it wasn't great but it was fun, and I bought a copy for my kids, who love it too... the wife, not so much.

[rmark]

Leftovers from lunch are my dinner. Never liked Van Halen after Roth left.

[JorgXMcKie]

Guys who are deadpan are almost always under-rated at whatever they do.

And one of my guilty pleasures is occasionally listening to Ringo rip up "She's Sixteen". It's a perfect rendition of that previous era.

[Gene Dillenburg]

Nobody has answered the question! The video is from Ringo's website, 10-14-08. The context was people getting autographs solely to sell them on ebay. Their choice, but Ringo didn't feel like giving them a free ride.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBI.....index.html

http://www.buzztab.com/music/r.....utographs/

[r. starr, esq]

I'm clean and sober.
I own me own songs.
I'm bloody rich.
Nobody wants to kill me.
I can play with any musician I want.
I'm shagging Barbara Bach.

And people say I was the dumb Beatle...