Today's piece of elitist, nostalgic poop comes from travel writer Seth Stevenson in The New York Times:
Governments, businesses and most travelers, irritated by disrupted itineraries and worried about lost productivity, are delighted to see planes back in the sky. But I, for one, wish this blessedly jet-free interlude could have continued a little longer. In the eccentric, ground-level adventures of some stranded passengers — 700-mile taxi rides through Scandinavia, for instance, perhaps a horse-drawn stagecoach over the Alps if things got really desperate — I'm reminded of the romance we trade away each time we shuffle aboard an airplane.
Because it's so much better when people are forced to make the same choice you have.
At the risk of taking such garbage seriously, I probably know at least 200 people who traveled "romantically" through Europe and Asia, whether by riding the rails, hitchhiking, or otherwise improvising. Every single one of them depended on a trans-oceanic flight to get started, and very few had the cash dollar bills to afford passage on Queen Mary II.
Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com
posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary
period.
Subscribe
here to preserve your ability to comment. Your
Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the
digital
edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do
not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments
do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and
ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Of course those people had nothing better to do with their time and money than be stranded thousands of miles away from home. Oh if we could all be some douche writing for the New York Times.
In the eccentric, ground-level adventures of some stranded passengers ? 700-mile taxi rides through Scandinavia, for instance, perhaps a horse-drawn stagecoach over the Alps if things got really desperate ? I'm reminded of the romance we trade away each time we shuffle aboard an airplane.
By contrast, I thought "Holy shit, that guy must've been rich if he could afford a 700-mile taxi fare," followed by " A lot of less-wealthy people must be really suffering over there." But then, it's easy to romanticize poverty when you don't have to live through it yourself.
You'll never live like common people, you'll never do what common people do. You'll never fail like common people, you'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to do.
I also find it ironic pining for a "simpler age" noted for higher incidence of disease due to poorer hygiene and more septic conditions. Diseases and infections that were lethal back then can be easily treated today.
Sometimes yearning for a simpler time is not the healthiest for you.
Exactly. We live in an era where many, many more people than ever before could see what other countries, or for that matter other cities are like, all thanks to the airplane. Marx was right about capitalism broadening the horizons of the common people.
I spoke to a friend in Sweden, last night, to see how they were holding up being cut off from the civilized world. He said they had descended into cannibalism and drunken orgies.
I wonder how much of this "romantic" traveling he's done. Or if he has at least cracked a history book or two, and read about what it was like. Maybe I read the wrong books, but "romantic" was NOT the first word that came to my mind when I read about such travel.
He doesn't know shit. I guarantee you he has never read any first hand accounts of what it was like to travel by coach or ship back in the days before trains. If he had, he would never have written such crap.
And, on top of it, I bet if it turned out that from now on he had to ride the subway an extra stop to get to the food co-op, he be steaming and fuming like... oh, like... a volcano somewhere really cold or something.
Very true. Can you imagine? The trips took endless hours, all sitting on a hard bench hoping the next bridge you cross doesn't fall down. And things were so bad before then, that people thought that was paradise.
He probably does know shit - he actually wrote a book about his adventures circumnavigating the globe without using aircraft. He took cargo freighters, trains, buses, etc. So knowing that, it makes sense he would write crap like this - he's promoting his damn book!
Ayup. Tortilla Flat, Arizona, actually used to be kind of a big deal, simply because it was a place to stop after you'd been spending days in a stagecoach crossing the mountains. Today, it's quaint because it's easy to get to; back then, you were probably just glad to get out of the damn coach and into a proper house.
I am sure he backpacked around Europe smoking dope, living in hostiles and using mommy and daddy's credit card. That gave him a real perspective on the romance of travel and how it is to live like the other half.
I'm reminded of Dana Carvey's old man character. "Kids today in their steel mills with there fancy pants equipment and safety procedures. Well we worked that molten steel by hand until our arms were burnt down to the stump of an well-charred elbow. And we LIKED it!"
My father was talking this weekend about one of the old-timers he used to listen to a long time ago.
My father asked him if he ever had an urge to hook up a team of horses to a plow and till the black Iowa soil the way they did back in the good old days.
The elder gentlemen responded that he had smelled enough oat-farts to last a lifetime.
I read correctly Saccharin Man; my comment is in the context for the "Assnuts" who pine for a "simpler time". In said time, had you resided, you would have a hard time with getting I-500, and the "Assnuts" would be Saccharin Man free. I.e. hardship isn't necessarily swell.
"But you knew that. And I forgive you Shelley".
Oh, and when your test strip costs go up P0 for some odd reason, then who's been PWN'd!? 🙂
So you are suggesting that said assnuts are trying to kill me? I'll fucking show them.
To rather obscenely quote myself: "People who appeal to tradition should have a tub of leeches dumped on them the next time they go to the emergency room."
Excellent. Yet another piece I can refer my friends and relatives to when they make their latest exclamation about how intelligent the writing and how superb a paper the NYT is.
It's really hard not to believe that this type of liberal doesn't yearn for a Soviet style system, where the workers work and have their subsistence needs met (in theory) and the political elites live the good life.
See Nancy Pelosi's statement about how a socialized system allows people to be "artists" if they want to without worrying about money for an example of that. For most liberals the whole damn thing is about figuring out a way to make the productive class pay for whatever bullshit lifestyle they think they are entitled to live.
The political elites did not live a good life in the Soviet system (go read your Solzhenitsyn for homework). Hence the collapse of the USSR. True socialism guarantees equal shit for all!
You know, if transatlantic zeppelin or passenger ship traffic was plentiful and affordable, I'd rather spend a few days going to Europe than the rush and hassle of airplane traffic. But then, I'm the kind of a nutcase that still uses a fountain pen and pocket watch...
Even ordinary, non-wealthy people enjoy taking cruises rather than just flying to a Caribbean island or Alaska or wherever. Sometimes getting there really is most of the fun. Of course, Tim is correct in saying that the means of transportation available on short notice and on a tight budget are not so pleasant.
I agree with you. Apart from the inevitable suffering of friends and acquaintances who were stranded in international travel, the first thing I thought of, hearing news of this transportation "crisis," was that this was an incredible opportunity for Zeppelin to come to the rescue and "do well by doing good." They could ferry people, either across the oceans to their home regions, or at least to places where jet flights to those regions were possible. Even if they did this for free and took a loss from the effort, the goodwill and publicity would go a long way toward 1) generating awareness of and demand for airship travel among travelers; 2) erasing the mental image of the burning Hindenburg that so many people still carry, even today. You can't buy good press like that for any amount of money. It may not be too late for them to make the gesture -- or perhaps the volcano will spew again soon, and Zeppelin will be ready.
I own several pocket watches and fountain pens. And one of my life dreams is to take a freighter passage on a transatlantic passage. Sadly, it takes 26 days and costs over $5,000.
I have some beautiful Cloisonn? pens from Persia that belonged to my great uncle -- a doctor during the early twentieth century (and brother in-law of the New York Vanderbilts). They sure are pretty to look at.
and very few had the cash dollar bills to afford passage on Queen Mary II.
As opposed to credit dollar bills?
Because it's so much better when people are forced to make the same choice you have.
Damn those coercive Icelandic volcanoes! You can't always get what you want, Tim, but you just might find you get what you need. Just like during that East Coast power outage a few years ago when city dwellers actually saw the Milky Way for the first time in their lives, and marvelled at how beatiful it was. Noticing that the things that make life more convenient sometimes come at a price does not mean I want to be without power every night.
Nothing romantic about an airplane after all - it's just the culmination of 5000 years of man dreaming about flight, breaking the earth's bonds and viewing the majesty of God's creation from 6 miles in the sky. Nope, pretty banal.
I don't know how dirigibles handle in clouds of volcanic ash, but this does seem like the right moment for Worldwide Aeros Corporation to take the game into the air.
True story: I'm at the gate in Orlando International Sunday when I feel a tap on my shoulder -- It's my newspaper's editor, flying home from a family funeral with his kids on the same flight.
I was glad I resisted the urge to pay $69 for the upgrade to first class.
"So this is what we're fucking paying for?"
"Uh, I'd like to chat with you, boss, but you're really not allowed up here. Stewardess, another Wild Turkey, please?"
Small world.
Think of the trans-Atlantic flights you may have taken. Do you remember anything about them?
Not transatlantic, but I do remember flying across the Pacific and marvelling at the horizon-to-horizon expanse of nothing but blue-green water, and the wonder of finally seeing some small land, far away from anything I'd ever known, and plotting out that perhaps it was Noumea...how strange it was to think that Noumea, so far from everything else, was the only land we had.
Which is basically a more poetic way to say, fuck Seth Stevenson in the eye.
It was the army train that took her daddy from her
It was the bible train that took her momma too
And that high loud whistle made her horse run away
But the straw the broke the camel's back was you
It was the government train that took away her childhood
It was the KKK that took away her past
It was the white man's will that hers be broken
But that barefoot girl could run too fast
Because the world's too cold for a girl like that with a
Blackfoot soul and a cowboy hat
Everything she loved went down the dragon track
She had a fear of trains
In the beet fields of Montana
She's always coming on dead rails
to break the plow and whisper "Honey,
bound to live is bound to fail"
And in a park in San Francisco
her momma shrieks about the Lord
And down the dead rails there's an echo
The wind is whistling all-aboard
It was the wagon train that took away her country
It was the oil train that took away her land
She could have been the Belle of the Ponderosa
but that was not the fat man's plan
Good to see John has no problem putting money in the pockets of state-owned businesses. Especially ones not really known for their dedicate to indivudal liberties.
In 50 years, this guy's son will be writing about how it was nice have the world teleport system down because we could all use that old, romantic method of travel: air travel.
Seriously, the biggest problem with this piece is where do you stop? Ok, so when he was growing up train travel was the established travel, but before that, train travel was the "new" travel. And before that, horse and buggy travel was the "new" travel.
If you want to be romantic for "original" travel, you have to go on foot. Otherwise, its an arbitrary line drawn essentially at your birth. And that isn't "romantic" as much as happenstance.
Where's Dan T.? I'm shocked, shocked, to see that he has not yet dropped his internal-combustion-is-worse-than-Hitler bomb on this thread. That fucking guy.
This always cracks me up because air travel should be an amazing experience but for the most part has been turned into "steerage" accommodations. Yet air travel gets compared to luxury accommodations aboard other vehicles. Let's compare modern economy air travel to economy travel of 100 years ago and see which one come out on top. Sure, your legs might be a little stiff but at least you don't have dysentery.
Think of the trans-Atlantic flights you may have taken. Do you remember anything about them?
Cocksucker needs to fly with Military Airlift Command. They'll make his flights memorable. They sure as hell did for me. 32 hours in a Hawaiian Air L-1011 going from Texas to Saudi Arabia is one memory I'd gladly give up.
I think the other thing he's missing is that air travel is simply another choice, one that doesn't preclude his "romantic" preferences. Hey, if he would rather spend 37 hours on a rickety bus next to a fat guy whose diet comes from all 4 flatulence food groups--chili, beer, eggs, and onions--go on ahead.
So Stevenson is elitist because he has a different preference from the norm yet you guys have no problem stereotyping people who can't afford air travel?
I don't know of EES expereinces, but my memories of riding Greyhounds/Trailways has nothing to do with sterotypes. Riding the bus between Norfolk, VA and Wilmington, DE when I was a young sailor sucked, but since I couldn't afford a car at the time was the only option.
Dan T., have you ever looked in the mirror and said to yourself, "Gawd, why am I such a douche-bag?" If not, you really should.
As GoNavy says, this comes from direct experience. Likewise as a young sailor who couldn't afford better. As I say, if somebody wants to do that they can but I'll pass.
Remember the bit in "Roughing It" where Clemens and his brother pushed the stagecoach miles through dry silt up to its axles in the middle of the Nevada desert? How romantic...
LOL. Damn, is there anything you guys can't get worked into a frothing lather about?
Stevenson doesn't say anything about people shouldn't be allowed to fly in airplanes. He's only giving his opinion on them not being a good way to travel.
Also noted is the ironic use of the term "elitist" by a group of people who basically take the attitude that everybody sucks but them and that they have the answer for every social problem.
Of course, no mention on this thread of how much the U.S. airline industry depends on the government to operate or the number of times it's gone to the government for bailouts, bankruptcy protection, etc.
Well now that you mention it, we hate the government subsidies of the airlines. Why should my tax dollars pay for your luggage? You want people totake the f'n train? Stop bailing ou the airlines.
Also noted is the ironic use of the term "elitist" by a group of people who basically take the attitude that everybody sucks but them and that they have the answer for every social problem.
Ok, Alanis, and i guess it's not elitism or any other -ism when you claim that most people (especially those whose skin is darker than yours) need guidance and protection from the political class lest, in the course of deciding how to live their own lives, they make a choice you don't think is right? Fuck off, shitcamel.
Of course, no mention on this thread of how much the U.S. airline industry depends on the government to operate or the number of times it's gone to the government for bailouts, bankruptcy protection, etc.
And no mention in your comment of the number of other threads on this site in which said bailouts, protections, etc. have been roundly condemned, you stupid fuck.
There's nothing more romantic than catching a ride on a covered wagon and then slaughtering some bison(and other wildlife) along the way to the Pacific Ocean.
Wouldn't the accounts of the Donner party members themselves contradict the study? That perhaps Mrs. Murphey's diary entry pronouncing to make a meal of one of the members wasn't evidence enough?
No matter, cannibalism or not, their covered wagon trip through the snowy Rocky Mountains wasn't the romantic sojourn Stevenson thinks it would be.
The white devils have been exploiting the wealth out of brown people for years ever since they stole the internal combustion engine from Africa. No doubt the white devils orchestrated the volcanic eruption in order to increase prices.
Just pointing out that the airline industry you guys suddenly are so fond of only exists because the government steals from us and gives our money to the airlines.
You should be praising Stevenson...oh wait, he writes for the New York Times, and them's a bunch of liburls.
I think the other thing he's missing is that air travel is simply another choice, one that doesn't preclude his "romantic" preferences. Hey, if he would rather spend 37 hours on a rickety bus next to a fat guy whose diet comes from all 4 flatulence food groups--chili, beer, eggs, and onions--go on ahead.
To play devil's advocate here, I think his point is that the combination of the existence of the technology in question [jet passenger airplanes] and a competitive economic system means that he really can't choose that.
Because when you strip away the detail about the mode of transportation, what he really appears to be nostalgic about is the personal time with no accountability that slower forms of travel used to entail. When it took two weeks to sail across the Atlantic, that was two weeks of dead time when no one could fuck with you and you had a ready-made and unquestionable excuse to ignore the world and its demands. Now you have the time between when the stewardess tells you to turn off your phone and the time when she says you can turn it back on.
And you can't choose NOT to take the plane, and take the boat instead, because if you do you get crushed competitively [in whatever area of life we're talking about] by people who use the faster technology.
It's like cell phones. To this day, I hate the existence of cell phones. To me, if I walk out the door, it's because I don't want to talk to you. And once I was out the door, I had an excuse not to talk to you. "Fluffy is gone for the day. Would you like to leave him a message?" The widespread adoption of the cell phone took that "unaccountable" time away. Because everyone has to participate as soon as even a few people do, or you get outcompeted by those few people.
PLEASE BE ADVISED that I support the fact that this is so. That's how we advance - because some other asshole gets more efficient, and we have to keep pace. I'm only even talking about this because I don't think any of you see that this guy is not simply being a romantic - he's lamenting an actual change in the way that we live, brought about by a change in the way we look at travel, and at our expectations about travel. It's a complaint that comes from the weak and douchebaggy side of us - "I wish everyone would go back to banker's hours, so I could go to my kid's little league games" - but it does refer to something tangible.
And speaking for myself, that is precisely why the snark tends to come out with regard to travel and advancement in communications technology. First, it was the answering machine. Then pagers. Then Alpha-Numeric pagers. Both with messenger services. Then cell phones. Now smart phones and PDA's. It's almost like, "Well, I am competitive and meeting the standards or exceeding expectations of efficiency, but when do I actually have time to enjoy it. Especially with occupations that require being available 24/7. It is incumbent upon whomever chooses to do those jobs accept what comes with it, but every once in a while it would be nice to to just stop and smell the roses. And I admit, I didn't look at it from the perspective you just posted. As usual, you present an alternate viewpoint that puts things in perspective.
I don't see what's weak and douchebaggery about it. Some folks would love to turn off those gadgets and take life slow. They're not douchebags, they just want to enjoy more of life than the steady barrage of e-mails, calls, and txt msgs. In our economy, though, you really can't make that choice without being ruined financially.
Put another way, maybe someone doesn't mind a smaller house if they don't have to work Fridays. There's nothing weak about that: that's just their preference. But in this particular age, we don't even get the luxury of being off the clock when we're off the clock, let alone make those sorts of choices. Whether that's an advance or not is really a matter of personal preference.
Driving from Atlanta to Buffalo and back was really romantic, especially the part from Cincinnati to the PA line (well, Big Bone Lick State Park was good for a chuckle, especially during the Lewinsky affair).
There are times when just wandering around is fun, but when your point of travelling is spending time at your destination, not so much.
I would support having the entire Klown Kollij of the NYT stranded somewhere in Europe, preferable without the benefit of electricity, and then, upon their eventual return, to find out they were listed as "Missing, presumed dead", and their passports revoked.
Why do people need transportation at all? It's not like they need to go anywhere their feet won't take them.
Of course those people had nothing better to do with their time and money than be stranded thousands of miles away from home. Oh if we could all be some douche writing for the New York Times.
Today's piece of elitist, nostalgic poop
LOLZ
Get the boy one of those Fred Flintstone cars that run on foot power and he can reflect on how "romantic" it is.
In the eccentric, ground-level adventures of some stranded passengers ? 700-mile taxi rides through Scandinavia, for instance, perhaps a horse-drawn stagecoach over the Alps if things got really desperate ? I'm reminded of the romance we trade away each time we shuffle aboard an airplane.
By contrast, I thought "Holy shit, that guy must've been rich if he could afford a 700-mile taxi fare," followed by " A lot of less-wealthy people must be really suffering over there." But then, it's easy to romanticize poverty when you don't have to live through it yourself.
You'll never live like common people, you'll never do what common people do. You'll never fail like common people, you'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to do.
Agreed Jennifer.
I also find it ironic pining for a "simpler age" noted for higher incidence of disease due to poorer hygiene and more septic conditions. Diseases and infections that were lethal back then can be easily treated today.
Sometimes yearning for a simpler time is not the healthiest for you.
Exactly. We live in an era where many, many more people than ever before could see what other countries, or for that matter other cities are like, all thanks to the airplane. Marx was right about capitalism broadening the horizons of the common people.
I spoke to a friend in Sweden, last night, to see how they were holding up being cut off from the civilized world. He said they had descended into cannibalism and drunken orgies.
So it's all good then.
Isn't that standard fare in Sweden?
Until 3 decades after Beowulf.
Eat me!
With a gamy leg ?!
So what is bad about drunken orgies?
At some point, they end.
I wonder how much of this "romantic" traveling he's done. Or if he has at least cracked a history book or two, and read about what it was like. Maybe I read the wrong books, but "romantic" was NOT the first word that came to my mind when I read about such travel.
He doesn't know shit. I guarantee you he has never read any first hand accounts of what it was like to travel by coach or ship back in the days before trains. If he had, he would never have written such crap.
And, on top of it, I bet if it turned out that from now on he had to ride the subway an extra stop to get to the food co-op, he be steaming and fuming like... oh, like... a volcano somewhere really cold or something.
Even the trains were no picnic - especially in the early days of train travel.
There were lots of train wrecks killing lots of people. Some of it was caused by the tracks being poorly constructed and maintained.
Very romantic indeed.
Very true. Can you imagine? The trips took endless hours, all sitting on a hard bench hoping the next bridge you cross doesn't fall down. And things were so bad before then, that people thought that was paradise.
As I mentioned upthread, lack of good sanitation and things refrigeration made traveling long distances riskier to one's health.
Steam boiler explosions. Don't forget those. A big problem before modern steelmaking, and affected both early steamships and railways.
Thats what happens when your staff is largely Irish and Chinese.... just sayin
He probably does know shit - he actually wrote a book about his adventures circumnavigating the globe without using aircraft. He took cargo freighters, trains, buses, etc. So knowing that, it makes sense he would write crap like this - he's promoting his damn book!
Traveling now does not mean he knows shit about what it was like to travel in the past.
Whatever - the real point is that his article is a cynical stunt to promote his book. I'm sure Stevenson was overjoyed at the timing.
Ayup. Tortilla Flat, Arizona, actually used to be kind of a big deal, simply because it was a place to stop after you'd been spending days in a stagecoach crossing the mountains. Today, it's quaint because it's easy to get to; back then, you were probably just glad to get out of the damn coach and into a proper house.
I am sure he backpacked around Europe smoking dope, living in hostiles and using mommy and daddy's credit card. That gave him a real perspective on the romance of travel and how it is to live like the other half.
"Living in hostiles" may be your best typo yet. I love it.
I did the "backpack around Europe" thing, so I don't view hostile as a typo.
Oh dear! Did you get seduced by a couple of hot, easy, and homocidal Slovakian women and get stuck in horrific underground murder resaort?
Or did you get bitten by a very large quadruped?
"Living in hostiles." That would make him ... a parasite bedeviling the enemy?
John, I laughed for a good five minutes on "hostiles". It's a banner day H&R!
Thank you.
RC'z Law thanks you, John, and hereby awards you a silver star with oak-leaf clusters for meritorious service.
There is a certain class of people who bemoan the loss of the hardships of the past. I like to refer to them by the technical term "Assnuts."
I'm reminded of Dana Carvey's old man character. "Kids today in their steel mills with there fancy pants equipment and safety procedures. Well we worked that molten steel by hand until our arms were burnt down to the stump of an well-charred elbow. And we LIKED it!"
My father was talking this weekend about one of the old-timers he used to listen to a long time ago.
My father asked him if he ever had an urge to hook up a team of horses to a plow and till the black Iowa soil the way they did back in the good old days.
The elder gentlemen responded that he had smelled enough oat-farts to last a lifetime.
I dunno Saccharin Man. Without insulin, it would be hard for you to exist. Especially intact with good vision.
I, for one, am fond of sanitation, refrigeration, hygiene, better medicines, and air conditioning.
Electricity goes without saying.
I think you read the opposite of my intent. But then you are merely a doctor, whereas I am a commenter on a blog.
Pwn'd = You.
I read correctly Saccharin Man; my comment is in the context for the "Assnuts" who pine for a "simpler time". In said time, had you resided, you would have a hard time with getting I-500, and the "Assnuts" would be Saccharin Man free. I.e. hardship isn't necessarily swell.
"But you knew that. And I forgive you Shelley".
Oh, and when your test strip costs go up P0 for some odd reason, then who's been PWN'd!? 🙂
Po = 500 percent.
You may be powerful, but my people have ruined your profession.
Yeah, I'd like to have a little talk with "your people".
Evil, aren't they? Shoot, there's hardly anything lawyers haven't ruined in this country.
I say "they", because I'm in-house.
So you are suggesting that said assnuts are trying to kill me? I'll fucking show them.
To rather obscenely quote myself: "People who appeal to tradition should have a tub of leeches dumped on them the next time they go to the emergency room."
Could it be because they hear too much ingratitude from people?
Excellent. Yet another piece I can refer my friends and relatives to when they make their latest exclamation about how intelligent the writing and how superb a paper the NYT is.
How many sections are you fluent in?
Ten bucks says that this fapper is a poverty tourist.
He sees the impoversished and tech-deprived natives, "How authentic!" Stevenson exclaimed.
He probably texts his enthusiasm to his friends and acquaintances around the world using his iPhone. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.
It's really hard not to believe that this type of liberal doesn't yearn for a Soviet style system, where the workers work and have their subsistence needs met (in theory) and the political elites live the good life.
I'm working on it...
See Nancy Pelosi's statement about how a socialized system allows people to be "artists" if they want to without worrying about money for an example of that. For most liberals the whole damn thing is about figuring out a way to make the productive class pay for whatever bullshit lifestyle they think they are entitled to live.
The political elites did not live a good life in the Soviet system (go read your Solzhenitsyn for homework). Hence the collapse of the USSR. True socialism guarantees equal shit for all!
I'm not talking reality, vanya, I'm talking delusion.
You know, if transatlantic zeppelin or passenger ship traffic was plentiful and affordable, I'd rather spend a few days going to Europe than the rush and hassle of airplane traffic. But then, I'm the kind of a nutcase that still uses a fountain pen and pocket watch...
Even ordinary, non-wealthy people enjoy taking cruises rather than just flying to a Caribbean island or Alaska or wherever. Sometimes getting there really is most of the fun. Of course, Tim is correct in saying that the means of transportation available on short notice and on a tight budget are not so pleasant.
I agree with you. Apart from the inevitable suffering of friends and acquaintances who were stranded in international travel, the first thing I thought of, hearing news of this transportation "crisis," was that this was an incredible opportunity for Zeppelin to come to the rescue and "do well by doing good." They could ferry people, either across the oceans to their home regions, or at least to places where jet flights to those regions were possible. Even if they did this for free and took a loss from the effort, the goodwill and publicity would go a long way toward 1) generating awareness of and demand for airship travel among travelers; 2) erasing the mental image of the burning Hindenburg that so many people still carry, even today. You can't buy good press like that for any amount of money. It may not be too late for them to make the gesture -- or perhaps the volcano will spew again soon, and Zeppelin will be ready.
I own several pocket watches and fountain pens. And one of my life dreams is to take a freighter passage on a transatlantic passage. Sadly, it takes 26 days and costs over $5,000.
Really? I am rather fond of Waterman pens.
Have two of those and two Mont Blancs.
I have some beautiful Cloisonn? pens from Persia that belonged to my great uncle -- a doctor during the early twentieth century (and brother in-law of the New York Vanderbilts). They sure are pretty to look at.
You selfish bastards need to sell those, give the proceeds to the Haitians, and use a Bic!
and very few had the cash dollar bills to afford passage on Queen Mary II.
As opposed to credit dollar bills?
Because it's so much better when people are forced to make the same choice you have.
Damn those coercive Icelandic volcanoes! You can't always get what you want, Tim, but you just might find you get what you need. Just like during that East Coast power outage a few years ago when city dwellers actually saw the Milky Way for the first time in their lives, and marvelled at how beatiful it was. Noticing that the things that make life more convenient sometimes come at a price does not mean I want to be without power every night.
That things have a price is something people tend to forget, especially if there is no price tag.
As a travel writer, I apologize for Seth Steveson. I also covet his expense account.
Now, imagine floating across the Atlantic on a ship.
Racist.
Nothing romantic about an airplane after all - it's just the culmination of 5000 years of man dreaming about flight, breaking the earth's bonds and viewing the majesty of God's creation from 6 miles in the sky. Nope, pretty banal.
My two year-old daughter thinks airplanes are awesome.
I don't know how dirigibles handle in clouds of volcanic ash, but this does seem like the right moment for Worldwide Aeros Corporation to take the game into the air.
I hereby announce an $8 billion grant for Bullet Blimps. Green jobs, lamentations from the Teabaggers, and I won't raise your taxes one dime!
Oh, the humanity!
If I'm inclined to nostalgia, it's for Business Class on Varig to Rio, not catching a schooner for two months of seasickness.
True story: I'm at the gate in Orlando International Sunday when I feel a tap on my shoulder -- It's my newspaper's editor, flying home from a family funeral with his kids on the same flight.
I was glad I resisted the urge to pay $69 for the upgrade to first class.
"So this is what we're fucking paying for?"
"Uh, I'd like to chat with you, boss, but you're really not allowed up here. Stewardess, another Wild Turkey, please?"
Small world.
And speaking of romance - people boast about joining the "Mile High Club" all the time. Who boasts about sex in the back of a Greyhound bus?
The "53 mph club"
Anyone who gets a stiffy from the smell of chemical toilets.
Quit it, man. I am at work you know.
So what, you're wearing the tighter khakis today?
I wear tighter khakis every day. My feet are black and numb.
I never realized you actually were Jay Cutler. OTA's I take it?
Not transatlantic, but I do remember flying across the Pacific and marvelling at the horizon-to-horizon expanse of nothing but blue-green water, and the wonder of finally seeing some small land, far away from anything I'd ever known, and plotting out that perhaps it was Noumea...how strange it was to think that Noumea, so far from everything else, was the only land we had.
Which is basically a more poetic way to say, fuck Seth Stevenson in the eye.
...whether by riding the rails, hitchhiking, or otherwise improvising.
That reminds me of something...
Jay: Do you live by the book?
Nun: Of course, I've been living by it my whole life.
Moments later...
Jay: [after pulling a very long pube out of his teeth] Eew, man, she had '70s bush. Damn second rule in that book should be: "Trim that shit".
I guess that's one way to get around.
I guess if Jay and Silent Bob can handle "romantic" travel, we should stop bitching and start living by the unwritten book of the road as well.
Think of the trans-Atlantic flights you may have taken. Do you remember anything about them?
Why, yes. The surprisingly good food in coach and the yummy stewardess on my KLM Royal Dutch flight to Schiphol.
Business class on Singapore Airlines -- the stewardesses are drop-dead gorgeous. Although the Dutch blondes certainly have their appeal as well.
I flew on Emirate Air once. Every stewardess was a Playboy quality blond. It was unbelievable. The Arabs love their European blonds.
THE URKOBOLD HIRES FROM THE SAME POOL. HE USES THE MASSIVE BOSOMS OF SUCH WOMEN IN PLACE OF TISSUE PAPER.
Good to see John has no problem putting money in the pockets of state-owned businesses. Especially ones not really known for their dedicate to indivudal liberties.
I didn't know John drove a Chevy
+100
In 50 years, this guy's son will be writing about how it was nice have the world teleport system down because we could all use that old, romantic method of travel: air travel.
Seriously, the biggest problem with this piece is where do you stop? Ok, so when he was growing up train travel was the established travel, but before that, train travel was the "new" travel. And before that, horse and buggy travel was the "new" travel.
If you want to be romantic for "original" travel, you have to go on foot. Otherwise, its an arbitrary line drawn essentially at your birth. And that isn't "romantic" as much as happenstance.
i just feel bad for the guy taking a shit on Mare Infinitus
Where's Dan T.? I'm shocked, shocked, to see that he has not yet dropped his internal-combustion-is-worse-than-Hitler bomb on this thread. That fucking guy.
This always cracks me up because air travel should be an amazing experience but for the most part has been turned into "steerage" accommodations. Yet air travel gets compared to luxury accommodations aboard other vehicles. Let's compare modern economy air travel to economy travel of 100 years ago and see which one come out on top. Sure, your legs might be a little stiff but at least you don't have dysentery.
Think of the trans-Atlantic flights you may have taken. Do you remember anything about them?
Cocksucker needs to fly with Military Airlift Command. They'll make his flights memorable. They sure as hell did for me. 32 hours in a Hawaiian Air L-1011 going from Texas to Saudi Arabia is one memory I'd gladly give up.
I think the other thing he's missing is that air travel is simply another choice, one that doesn't preclude his "romantic" preferences. Hey, if he would rather spend 37 hours on a rickety bus next to a fat guy whose diet comes from all 4 flatulence food groups--chili, beer, eggs, and onions--go on ahead.
You left out the cabbage group (krauts and Kim Chee).
So Stevenson is elitist because he has a different preference from the norm yet you guys have no problem stereotyping people who can't afford air travel?
Interesting.
Interesting
I don't know of EES expereinces, but my memories of riding Greyhounds/Trailways has nothing to do with sterotypes. Riding the bus between Norfolk, VA and Wilmington, DE when I was a young sailor sucked, but since I couldn't afford a car at the time was the only option.
Dan T., have you ever looked in the mirror and said to yourself, "Gawd, why am I such a douche-bag?" If not, you really should.
As GoNavy says, this comes from direct experience. Likewise as a young sailor who couldn't afford better. As I say, if somebody wants to do that they can but I'll pass.
Remember the bit in "Roughing It" where Clemens and his brother pushed the stagecoach miles through dry silt up to its axles in the middle of the Nevada desert? How romantic...
I love his travel books. They don't get enough attention, if you ask me.
LOL. Damn, is there anything you guys can't get worked into a frothing lather about?
Stevenson doesn't say anything about people shouldn't be allowed to fly in airplanes. He's only giving his opinion on them not being a good way to travel.
Also noted is the ironic use of the term "elitist" by a group of people who basically take the attitude that everybody sucks but them and that they have the answer for every social problem.
Frothing lather? No, it's mockery. And no, there's nothing we won't mock.
We even mock mockery.
Meta-mockery?
Hypermetamockery.
Compuglobalhypermetamockery.
Of course, no mention on this thread of how much the U.S. airline industry depends on the government to operate or the number of times it's gone to the government for bailouts, bankruptcy protection, etc.
Well now that you mention it, we hate the government subsidies of the airlines. Why should my tax dollars pay for your luggage? You want people totake the f'n train? Stop bailing ou the airlines.
Are you happy now?
Also noted is the ironic use of the term "elitist" by a group of people who basically take the attitude that everybody sucks but them and that they have the answer for every social problem.
Ok, Alanis, and i guess it's not elitism or any other -ism when you claim that most people (especially those whose skin is darker than yours) need guidance and protection from the political class lest, in the course of deciding how to live their own lives, they make a choice you don't think is right? Fuck off, shitcamel.
Xeones 1, Straw Man 0.
kettle, meet pot
If you want to be romantic for "original" travel, you have to go on foot.
Be sure to leave your shoes at home, for a truly authentic experience.
Of course, no mention on this thread of how much the U.S. airline industry depends on the government to operate or the number of times it's gone to the government for bailouts, bankruptcy protection, etc.
And no mention in your comment of the number of other threads on this site in which said bailouts, protections, etc. have been roundly condemned, you stupid fuck.
Right, they are condemned until you benefit from one, then they are cool.
Ah, the same logic as the "if you're for higher taxes, why don't you pay them voluntarily" argument.
Xeones 1, Straw Man 0.
I guess it's too much to expect that you would actually comprehend the implications of what you type into this here computer thingy, huh?
There's nothing more romantic than catching a ride on a covered wagon and then slaughtering some bison(and other wildlife) along the way to the Pacific Ocean.
Hey, you guys are the ones who think Seth Steveson wants to ban air travel or whatever.
Right, they are condemned until you benefit from one, then they are cool.
What was that about strawmen?
Ahh, the romance of scurvy aboard the square rigger, crossing the Atlantic in November.
I say we give Seth Stevenson the lash, to help imbue him with a more permanent sense of romance lost via air travel.
The Donner party is waiting on you, Mr. Stevenson.
New Study Suggests Donner Party Weren't Cannibals.
Wouldn't the accounts of the Donner party members themselves contradict the study? That perhaps Mrs. Murphey's diary entry pronouncing to make a meal of one of the members wasn't evidence enough?
No matter, cannibalism or not, their covered wagon trip through the snowy Rocky Mountains wasn't the romantic sojourn Stevenson thinks it would be.
I have no opinion, as I didn't read the bit I linked to. Just passing along useless information, as I'm paid to do.
The white devils have been exploiting the wealth out of brown people for years ever since they stole the internal combustion engine from Africa. No doubt the white devils orchestrated the volcanic eruption in order to increase prices.
Just pointing out that the airline industry you guys suddenly are so fond of only exists because the government steals from us and gives our money to the airlines.
You should be praising Stevenson...oh wait, he writes for the New York Times, and them's a bunch of liburls.
True enough. I propose we privatize the air traffic control system and the airports, quit bailing out bankrupt airlines, and abolish the TSA.
It's really pathetic that none of you are smart enough to actually make an argument and have to resort to childish spoofing.
I haven't posted one thing in this thread. You've all been arguing with an impostor. Fools.
Lies, I've written everything here!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No I haven't. I haven't written anything here.
Who am I? Do I exist?
This is all the white devil's fault...
Am I the white devil? Or is the white devil in all of us?
What's for lunch? And which one of me is buying?
You could suckle me again. This time, I'll let you have my essence. I promise!
I think the other thing he's missing is that air travel is simply another choice, one that doesn't preclude his "romantic" preferences. Hey, if he would rather spend 37 hours on a rickety bus next to a fat guy whose diet comes from all 4 flatulence food groups--chili, beer, eggs, and onions--go on ahead.
To play devil's advocate here, I think his point is that the combination of the existence of the technology in question [jet passenger airplanes] and a competitive economic system means that he really can't choose that.
Because when you strip away the detail about the mode of transportation, what he really appears to be nostalgic about is the personal time with no accountability that slower forms of travel used to entail. When it took two weeks to sail across the Atlantic, that was two weeks of dead time when no one could fuck with you and you had a ready-made and unquestionable excuse to ignore the world and its demands. Now you have the time between when the stewardess tells you to turn off your phone and the time when she says you can turn it back on.
And you can't choose NOT to take the plane, and take the boat instead, because if you do you get crushed competitively [in whatever area of life we're talking about] by people who use the faster technology.
It's like cell phones. To this day, I hate the existence of cell phones. To me, if I walk out the door, it's because I don't want to talk to you. And once I was out the door, I had an excuse not to talk to you. "Fluffy is gone for the day. Would you like to leave him a message?" The widespread adoption of the cell phone took that "unaccountable" time away. Because everyone has to participate as soon as even a few people do, or you get outcompeted by those few people.
PLEASE BE ADVISED that I support the fact that this is so. That's how we advance - because some other asshole gets more efficient, and we have to keep pace. I'm only even talking about this because I don't think any of you see that this guy is not simply being a romantic - he's lamenting an actual change in the way that we live, brought about by a change in the way we look at travel, and at our expectations about travel. It's a complaint that comes from the weak and douchebaggy side of us - "I wish everyone would go back to banker's hours, so I could go to my kid's little league games" - but it does refer to something tangible.
Well said Fluffy.
And speaking for myself, that is precisely why the snark tends to come out with regard to travel and advancement in communications technology. First, it was the answering machine. Then pagers. Then Alpha-Numeric pagers. Both with messenger services. Then cell phones. Now smart phones and PDA's. It's almost like, "Well, I am competitive and meeting the standards or exceeding expectations of efficiency, but when do I actually have time to enjoy it. Especially with occupations that require being available 24/7. It is incumbent upon whomever chooses to do those jobs accept what comes with it, but every once in a while it would be nice to to just stop and smell the roses. And I admit, I didn't look at it from the perspective you just posted. As usual, you present an alternate viewpoint that puts things in perspective.
I don't see what's weak and douchebaggery about it. Some folks would love to turn off those gadgets and take life slow. They're not douchebags, they just want to enjoy more of life than the steady barrage of e-mails, calls, and txt msgs. In our economy, though, you really can't make that choice without being ruined financially.
Put another way, maybe someone doesn't mind a smaller house if they don't have to work Fridays. There's nothing weak about that: that's just their preference. But in this particular age, we don't even get the luxury of being off the clock when we're off the clock, let alone make those sorts of choices. Whether that's an advance or not is really a matter of personal preference.
To play devil's advocate here,
Very nice, Fluffy.
I share your hatred of the "always on" cellphone society.
I'm hanging on to not having a work cellphone by a thread. Next promotion makes it mandatory.
Driving from Atlanta to Buffalo and back was really romantic, especially the part from Cincinnati to the PA line (well, Big Bone Lick State Park was good for a chuckle, especially during the Lewinsky affair).
There are times when just wandering around is fun, but when your point of travelling is spending time at your destination, not so much.
I would support having the entire Klown Kollij of the NYT stranded somewhere in Europe, preferable without the benefit of electricity, and then, upon their eventual return, to find out they were listed as "Missing, presumed dead", and their passports revoked.
The only problem I've got is folks who're so eager to comment in such an untravelledly fashion.