Frum Frum Frum Frum!
As health care reform, after decades of intense debate, was finally being passed on Sunday, conservative commentator and former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum, who has been spending his recent months "dedicated to the modernization and renewal of the Republican party and the conservative movement," issued a condemnation of the "conservatives and Republicans ourselves," for not being willing to "deal with the administration" on health care. It was a much-linked essay, with plenty of bad things to say about Rush Limbaugh, "conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio," and "the conservative entertainment industry," all of whom were "whipp[ing] the Republican voting base into such a frenzy." (Read Peter Suderman's reaction to Frum's analysis here.)
Anyway, fast forward to today, and Frum has suddenly been tossed from his fellowship position at the American Enterprise Institute, where he had been since 2003. Read the stories from The New York Times (which includes AEI's official statement) and the Washington Post.
Bruce Bartlett, who was fired from the National Center for Policy Analysis in 2005 "for writing a book critical of George W. Bush's policies, especially his support for Medicare Part D," comments:
Since, he is no longer affiliated with AEI, I feel free to say publicly something he told me in private a few months ago. He asked if I had noticed any comments by AEI "scholars" on the subject of health care reform. I said no and he said that was because they had been ordered not to speak to the media because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do. […]
[N]ow I see that I was just the first to suffer from a closing of the conservative mind. Rigid conformity is being enforced, no dissent is allowed, and the conservative brain will slowly shrivel into dementia if it hasn't already.
Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go. The donor community is only interested in financing organizations that parrot the party line, such as the one recently established by McCain economic adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin. […]
[T]his is a black day for what passes for a conservative movement, scholarship, and the once-respected AEI.
My view on Frum is colored by two things he wrote in 2003–The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush, An Inside Account, and a National Review cover story on "Unpatriotic Conservatives." A sample from the latter:
Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."
These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies. […]
You may know the names of these antiwar conservatives. Some are famous: Patrick Buchanan and Robert Novak. Others are not: Llewellyn Rockwell, Samuel Francis, Thomas Fleming, Scott McConnell, Justin Raimondo, Joe Sobran, Charley Reese, Jude Wanniski, Eric Margolis, and Taki Theodoracopulos. […]
They began by hating the neoconservatives. They came to hate their party and this president. They have finished by hating their country.
War is a great clarifier. It forces people to take sides. The paleoconservatives have chosen — and the rest of us must choose too. In a time of danger, they have turned their backs on their country. Now we turn our backs on them.
Frum has a richer experience than most when it comes to drawing, enforcing, and being expelled from boundaries of acceptable coalitions and discourse. Should be interesting to see how this story plays out.
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Fuck both Frum and Bartlett. The both love Washington and are completely unreliable.
Now that they're both free from their respective think-tanks, they can finally harness their massive popularity to start a new movement for a new conservatism founded on egalitarianism, expanded entitlements, and endless foreign wars.
Seriously, Frum was the speechwriter for W - how can you have any credibility with anyone after that?
Hmmm, me thinks Frum is a tool, a Rino, a coctail royalty conservative.
Doesn't oppose the Dems for their socialism, just the way the Dems do socialism. Thinks the Tea Party activists are dangerous anarchists and worse than the Socialists.
He is the kind of Republican the NYT wishes represented the Republicans.
anarchist are a type of socialist (most of the time).
Ah, I beg your pardon, sir. If I was not such a First Amendment absolutist, I would sue you for defamation. Calling another a socialist, is, per se, defamatory.
Actually, in this case it would be libel; pesky intertubez posts and all.
The hilarious thing to me is that Bartlett was thrown out because he complained about Bush (and Frum) compromising with Democrats and producing Medicare Part D.
Now he's upset that suddenly the Republican establishment hates the process that resulted in Medicare Part D.
Frum is at least consistent-- he was pro Medicare Part D, and pro compromising here. Bartlett, well, I guess he's consistent in not wanting people to be thrown out.
I'm not sure if it's because it's late, but that last line had me cracking up. Good post.
So the guy who was hell bent on purging other conservatives is now being purged. Fuck Frum
Fuck Frum and Fuck Conservatives
Karma fucks the sad, authoritarian little toady. Thank you, karma.
Anytime. By the way, I'll be working at the Spearmint Rhino this weekend. Come up and see me!
I get it. "Closed minded" = "does not agree with me."
'Twas ever thus.
No.
"does not agree with me" = "raaaacist!!"
No, that's only true if "me" has a "D" next to the name. If you're a RINO, "close minded" = "does not agree with me."
Oh, and I'm also amused that Bruce Bartlett's blogpost on the evils of groupthink holds all comments for moderation.
To be fair, questioning the prevailing groupthink is the surest way to get an out-of-control comment thread. Look at the threads for some Michael Young posts here on H&R from back when the Iraq War was going badly.
Sure, it is. And questioning the prevailing groupthink is a good way to get thinktankers saying things that the donors don't want.
Michael Young had a different perspective on the Iraq War, actually living in Lebanon and all. He represented a different kind of voice than one actually hears often-- someone who thinks that imperial force can actually be useful against his local and nearby oppressive governments.
Now, imperialists invoke those people all the time, but it's still useful to be reminded that they exist and aren't entirely strawmen.
I'm disappointed that he never worked on Michael Young History.
"Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go. The donor community is only interested in financing organizations that parrot the party line, such as the one recently established by McCain economic adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin. [...]"
There may not be as many lucrative positions doing that kind of thing as there used to be, but I understand they've started pre-installing teh interwebs on the computers now, so maybe he'll find a way to get his precious opinion across somewhere else.
And like Bruce Bartlett, he'll be free to have all comments to his blog held for moderation, so that no one can go off-topic when Bruce is trying to talk about the evils of close-minded groupthink.
But how will he survive? He has no marketable skills other than sucking up to those in positions of power.
What's that? Middle management at a large corporation in an uncompetitive market sector? Yes, that's a great idea!
"Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go. The donor community is only interested in financing organizations that parrot the party line..."
What does he want?
Tenure?!
"Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go. The donor community is only interested in financing organizations that parrot the party line, such as the one recently established by McCain economic adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin. [...]"
Wouldn't Frum at least (don't know the other guy) find a happy home in some Democratic think-tank? I'll bet that's where he ends up as the sort-of house conservative whipping-boy/useful idiot.
Second of all, that quote makes it sound like these guys will be homeless. Perk up, gents, Obama's got your back.
There most certainly is a place for them to go. It's called the Democrat party. Have fun there, guys.
Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go.
The Times and Post swap out their conservative-hating Republican columnists every couple years. Get in line. At buckle height.
So, which one of you fine gentlemen would like to join our team? Oh, there's only one spot open right now, so we're gonna have... tryouts.
+LOL
I like David Frum but think his grudging embrace of Obamacare and his criticism of Rush Limbaugh are both way off base. I think his views on Obamacare are thought provoking but wrong. I think his criticism of Rush Limbaugh and other conservative talk show hosts that their views are something other than sincerely held is based in David Frum's personal animosity toward Mr. Limbaugh. Ultimately, this personal attack on Rush is why AEI did the right thing when it fired David Frum.
As I said before, I like David Frum a lot. He needs to stop getting in personal fights with other conservatives like Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, and the late Robert Novak. This overly personal style of argumentation distracts from his message and causes people to start questioning his motives.
This overly personal style of argumentation distracts from his message and causes people to start questioning his motives.
But there's nothing to question. He's an authoritarian statist. He's made that quite clear.
"This overly personal style of argumentation distracts from his message and causes people to start questioning his motives."
Is that more of a style preference? Even, a cultural partialness?
I think his criticism of Rush Limbaugh and other conservative talk show hosts that their views are something other than sincerely held is based in David Frum's personal animosity toward Mr. Limbaugh.
Rush Limbaugh admitted his views were something other than sincerely held following the 2006 midterm election debacle.
Good riddance to bad thinkers, I say.
Inkblots, incorrect use of the word bad. If you can't spank it, it isn't bad.
His scoldings might have some justif'n if those he scolds could predict a bit in advance what positions he'll take. However, I'm afraid he just assumes a contrary posture no matter where they wind up. He's a lot like Jehova.
See, Matt, you wrote "Frum Frum Frum Frum!" to be like "Dum Dum Dum Dum!", but all I can think of is the Joseph Smith episode of South Park where they keep singing "Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb!".
Somebody should put Frum and Ezra Klein in a motorcycle ball of death together with stuck accelerators. See how long they can go without smashing into each other. I'd pay good money to see that.
Dumb dumb dumb dumb!
Dumb dumb dumb dumb!
History is made by stupid people!
I wrote it that way because of Beethoven's Fifth. That, and because for some reason around my house we sing "Pomme pomme pomme pomme!" to the tune of Beethoven's Fifth.
next refrain should go,
'de terre, de terre, de terre, de terre!'
Made me think of the Dragnet theme.
I really couldn't see the connection between Frum and Joe Friday though.
And here I thought it was sung to the tune of:
"Barack Hussein Obama.
Frum frum frum."
See, I read it and I think "Frungy! Frungy! Frungy!"
It's time to name that hair that sticks out around the rims of tighty whities "frum."
"Aw, dude, your frum's showing."
Seconded.
With no objections, "frum" is hereby adopted.
BTW marlok, your frum is showing.
Pervert.
I like it. Unfortunately, now we'll constantly have to be pointing out to Warty that his frum is showing.
Throw in Markos Mouwhatever and that would be the awesomest thing ever in the history of awesomeness. Neither Frum nor Klein grate on me quite like the bug eyed little freak, but they're plenty annoying nonetheless.
Somebody should put Frum and Ezra Klein in a motorcycle ball of death together with stuck accelerators. See how long they can go without smashing into each other. I'd pay good money to see that.
Just give each a jacket made out of velcro. They will eventually find one another.
All night long,
Let me see that Fruuuuum
Baby,
That Frum Frum-Frum Frum-Frum
Joseph Smith was called a prophet,
Frum Frum Frum Frum Frum.
He started the Mormon religion,
Frum Frum Frum Frum Frum.
Nice petard you're hoisting there, Mr. Frum.
There is too: go fry in Hell with Rat Prick Butt Cannon, Robert Novak, Loo Crock Shill, Samuel Francis, Thomas Fleming, Scott McConnell, Dimnuts Ripped Moron, Joe Sobran, Charley Reese, Jude Wanniski, Jerk Cornhole Piss, Taki Theodoracopulos, and every other America-basher, Jew-hater, pacifascist, 9/11 troofer, and Nazi-sympathizing traitor you just named on your list, traitor.
Remember The Liberty !
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html
Yeah, Jerk Cornhole Piss sure loves him some anti-semitic conspiracy theory bullshit, doesn't he?
You're stupid.
You're retarded.
"Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance."
Hayek - 'Why I Am Not A Conservative"
shrike: A timely observation.
Indeed.
Yes, but too bad that Frum's alternative offered was "pass something like RomneyCare or Medicare Part D."
*crosses "shrike" off PEOPLE TO KILL list*
I'm not convinced that isn't a shrikepuppet.
The Republican leadership that drove its party out of power agrees with the direction of the other party as it drives itself out of power.
In its heart of hearts, the electorate dislikes central planning.
And why no reference, Matt Welch, to your memorably ill-informed comments on Frum's book Comeback?
http://frum.nationalreview.com.....Y1ZWM2YzY=
Probably because this post is about Frum's whining hypocrisy (SOP for NRO) and not the thing you mentioned.
"this was, as you know, the theme of the National Topsider's exclusive January conference at the private Breakers Club in Nassau where I hosted a veritable murderer's row of top tory thinkers to diagnose the troubles with conservatism. Dame Peggy Noonan was there, of course, along with Kathleen Parker, Douglas Kmiec, and those two mighty Davids of conservative intellect, Brooks and Frum. But enough of the namedropping. The order of the day, after mixed badminton doubles, was to formulate an Rx for our ailing patient. In this regard we were in surprising accord: in order to survive, conservatism simply must start appealing to a better class of people. The sad fact of the matter, as we noted, is that one no longer finds admitted conservatives in any of America's prestige zip codes nor the faculty redoubts of her selective academies. During our Bahamian summit many gambits were proposed to win back America's elite electoral precincts from the left; sponsoring various hip hop colloquia at the better Ivies, supporting integration of gays into Nascar, endorsing state ownership of the means of production. Rod Dreher, whose sensational exegesis "Crunchy Cons" sold well over 200 copies last year, recommended a full embrace of the environmental movement, which as I understand is quite the rage among youthful voters and the trendsetting thespians of Hollywood. Good and bold ideas all, and necessary steps to get the movement started again. But there remains a daunting obstacle - namely, the benighted rubes who constitute so much of our so-called "base," and whose existence make it nigh on impossible to recruit their social betters."
Nice to see you posting here, David.
It'd be great if Reason gave you a column.
That was good, iowahawk. Almost too good (cf. Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum).
Reason needs to lose the Friday funnies and give you a weekly collumn. That was awesome.
You've a true dexterity prose, sir.
See, look what happens when you don't restrict immigration, you get people like Frum coming to the US.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Frum's mother is originally from the US. A lot of prominent Canadians are.
Of course, if they can find a technicality that says he is not a citizen and deport the motherfucker that would be alright with me.
BREAKING: Favoritism is great when you are part of the inner circle but sucks when you are not.
Don't feel bad Mr. Frum and Mr. Barlett. They would have kicked out President Ford, President Eisenhower, and Wm F. Buckley as well. Time for a newer better conservative political group. The Republicans have worn out their welcome.
Frum questioned the patriotism of Bob Novak. Novak has his issues. But the guy was a Korean war veteran. Some whinney little bitch like Frum has no right to call out his patriotism.
Novak actually did real reporting and printed real leaks (i.e., not just what the Administration wanted) in his column. Most people these days just reprint press releases or spout off no better than I or any other Reason commenter could.
Yeah. He of the infamous Valerie Plame collumn. Novak was a real reporter. There are not many of them left. Compare Novak and Michael Kinsey from the right and left to Frum and Ezra Klein today. Pretty sad comparison for the current pack of journalists.
John, I believe that the old school journalism is pretty much dead. It seems to me that most journalism today is moreso op-ed stuff. But then, I doubt I could a better job.
*No disrespect intended to the Reason staff (though Balko's nut punches are very good investigative reports; the man is like a pit bull).
Unfortunately, Balko has a lot of easy targets to report on that no other reporter will touch for fear of losing TEH ACCESS. Not dissing him at all (though I think he lets the horror stories he's covered color his attitude toward all cops everywhere) but it's not like he has to look far or worry about getting scooped.
Yes, in one sense it's a shame that Radley doesn't have a newspaper column, with the real reporting chops he has. I think he still gets things done as it is, though, so maybe it's not needed in this day and age.
Frum and Klein are explicitly opinion guys. They're not presented as a journalist.
spout off no better than I or any other Reason commenter could.
...and with significantly worse spelling and grammar. I don't make my living writing, and I'd be ashamed to put my name on some of the marginally-English stuff the AP puts out these days.
Also - Frum is from Canada. I'm fine with immigrants, but I don't want immigrants lecturing me on patriotism.
...says the guy with the .ru email address.
Obligatory Daily Show video:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/wa.....david-frum
At 3:10 is where Ron Paul comes up as a topic.
What a turd Frum is. It was kind of funny seeing Stewart put Frum in his place, if only for a moment.
Stewart is good for a laugh, now and then.
What a douche!
Where's that bully from The Simpsons when you need him.
Ha-ha.
What a weasel.
The Hayek quote might be more relevant if the current political landscape in any way, shape, or form resembled that of 1960.
This, alas, is not the case.
On the other hand, a contemporary definition of "conservative" is currently in flux. Apparently the "political" conservative Goldwaterians are making headway against the "cultural" conservative front headed by various Christian coalition groups.
This article also reminds me that Jerry Pournelle (no American-hater) prefers referring to "the egregious Frum," after the latter's excommunication of paleo-cons who questioned the wisdom of the war.
As for myself, I consider Frum a member of the country-club Republicans.
Frum is just afraid Pournelle's protagonist from The Mercenary would know exactly the prescription medicine Frum needs.
Maybe now that Bartlett and Frum have made their peace with big government, they can get jobs at universities.
Frum was never against big government, that is why he was so in favor of that government program, war
Frum and Bartlett want close-minded, they should see Chavez. Gotta like arresting a guy for making the "false and offensive" comments that opinions are being criminalized in Venezuela.
Wow. Chavez' government really did a good job of proving Zuloaga's point.
Bartlett's also a fucking liar. He just told me to "get my facts straight" and that every Democrat voted against Medicare Part D. He's a damn liar, as 11 Democratic Senators plus Jeffords voted for Medicare Part D.
Bartlett started out mad at Republicans for Medicare Part D, now he's delusional in denying that Democrats voted for it, and agreeing with Frum that Republicans should have passed something "moderate" (in his words) like RomneyCare.
Look, he hates conformity, alright? If his current views conformed to his past views, he'd be dangerously close to having his brain shrivel into dementia.
Frum is just like David Brooks.
His new business model is being liberals favorate "conservative" who can be counted on to bash real conservatives in commentary to be used as citations by liberals in their attempts to define the paramaters of the political spectrum to suit themselves.
Whatever it takes to get invited to the "in-the-know cool awesome in-crowd cocktail parties".
I see little difference between high school and what passes for professional political discourse.
It's called human society. Deal.
LOL true Tulpa.
I see little difference between high school and what passes for professional political discourse.
____________________________
High School has fist fights
Like you wouldn't pay to see pundits go a few rounds. I remember watching when I was in HS Crossfire and always wanted to see Michael Kinsley get popped just once. Bill Press struck me as reasonable.
Oh hell I would love to see some of these douchebags throw punches, but none of them has a spine among them.
Frum may be an asshole but your way off base. Frum really doesn't like liberals. But he cares about political power, and he wants a Bush style establishment Republican elected President so he can get a new cozy cabinet level assignment. A paleo- or libertarian President won't need Frum, so of course Frum is trying very hard to move the GOP back to center.
The most striking thing about Frum is that he waited until after he knew whether the bill passed before he stated his complaints about us small-minded opponents to socialized medicine. If he had had more confidence he would have put his beliefs to the test by publishing his article before the result of the end game was known
Yes, but at least he was in favor of Medicare Part D too, so he's consistent.
Bruce Bartlett just wants to bitch after the fact. Unless we're supposed to believe that Medicare Part D (with 11 Democratic Senators plus Jeffords voting for it, BTW, get your facts straight Bartlett) pissed him off so much he wanted RomneyCare to pass.
I can understand the consistent complaints of someone who always wants to compromise for fear of getting something worse. Bruce Bartlett apparently just wants to bitch.
Frum has never said he liked Obamacare. He's complaining about Republican tactics not Republican policy. Frum believes, rightly or wrongly, that the Republicans have ended up allowing the Democrats to push a worse bill on the American people than would have been the case if the Republicans had tried to work with the Blue Dog Dems and come up with some alternative. It was possible to split the Democrat vote and compromise the bill. Instead the Republicans stuck to their principles and got railroaded. Frum is saying that's stupid politics.
"I said no and he said that was because they had been ordered not to speak to the media because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do. [...]"
Um, AEI hasn't exactly been silent on the health care debate:
http://www.aei.org/recPublications?rid=43
I'm calling BS.
Bartlett excuses that by claiming that Ornstein is the house liberal and doesn't count.
Whom the Republicans would destroy, they first drive mad.
From a nearly dead thread, but almost relevant.
SugarFree|3.25.10 @ 9:06AM|#
Ever wonder what's wrong with public schools?
Feast. Feast on the horror.
joe from Lowell Says:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
OT:
I was in the school where I sub ? tough place ? and I asked my first two classes "Can anyone tell me what important event happened last night?"
Woah. Woah. Hand up. I got this one teach. The US lost its triple A bond rating because of retarded fucks like you voting for Obama.
Justin Raimondo
Whoa, hold up now. Raimondo = conservative?
I thought he was just about blaming the jews for everything? I also thought he was a darling of the hard-leftist truther types...? Maybe I never read him enough.
LOL go back to Freeperland you pathetic troll.
No, you go back to LiarDogFake, you fucking leftard.
How do you like deez nuts in your mouth, SlaveryBill? DENNIS Raimondo is a Commie traitor bitch, and so are you.
Raimondo dances on the edge of anti-Semitism, and he knows it. Thumping away at AIPAC while surrounding yourself with Gary "Stone the Gays" North and worshiping the dictator of Malaysia (notorious anti-Semite) is going to get you a swift "birds of a feather flock together" verdict.
surrounding yourself with Gary "Stone the Gays" North
Would not make sense if true. Raimondo is gay.
The claim that North calls for the stoning of homosexuals. One, his religion is Christian, not Islam, so very unlikely.
Two, Raimondo hangs out with North.
Raimondo former resident of San Fransisco lives in the rural area of that region now. North lives in the border area between the South East and Mid-West, though originally from California. Would be impractical for the two men to 'hang out'.
So, AEI == don't agree with Democrats on healthare, even though the package was basically a Republican ca. '93/Romney ca '05.
So what gets one axed from Reason?
AEI != House organ of the national Republican Party.
AEI != Mitt Romney's press office
The consistency demanded of conservatives is breathtaking. If a Republican anywhere ever took a position consistent with anything in Obamacare, all conservatives must acquiesce to all of Obamacare.
Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go.
Wow, not even McDonalds? What kind of conservative bemoans not being able to make a living in the private sphere.
Oh, yeah, that kind. My bad.
"Some whinney little bitch like Frum has no right to call out his patriotism."
+10
Of course I disagreed with Novak quite a bit, but he was a veteran and excellent journalist. Frum is lint by comparison.
I grew to really like Novak. I miss him.
Novak had a good TV persona. He seemed like a real unsentimental hard-ass who wouldn't take any shit. Compare that to the histrionic bullshitters on the news channels now.
Sadly, there is no place for David and me to go.
Considering his pal David writes for the NYT, I find this exceedingly hard to believe.
He seems, really, to be whining about the polarization of American politics, where (outside of a few token "conservative" positions at liberal dailies) there aren't many people willing to shell out for unprincipled mushy middlemen.
Boo-freaking-hoo. I suggest he look to the lefty academic and his Daly machine pals in the White House if he care to inquire about who is driving this polarization. You remember, the "post-partisan" President who said that we should not pass health care reform on a bare majority party-line vote?
Just to also clear the record about Bartlett...he was not let go because he criticized Bush and the GOP over Medicare Part D. That put him in line with the rest of his colleagues. And he wasn't really let go for authoring an anti-Bush book. No, he was let go because he wrote the anti-Bush vent all the while telling his employer he was writing a book on tax policy for which they were paying him for and clearing his schedule to enable. But sure, keep deflecting.
Fuck the AEI; I hope the earth opens up and swallows them all.
Fuck that shit-gobbling weasel Frum.
That pretty much covers it.
Completely laughable "they had been ordered not to speak to the media because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do"
There's just no way that's true.
Maybe Frum is angling for a New York Times column. He's the kind of conservative they like.
If David Frum got fired from AEI, then perhaps there is a God, after all!