Time to Add on Official Judicial Response to the SotU?
Was Justice Alito's "not true" the subtler, quieter, more polite black-robed version of Rep. Joe Wilson's "you lie" outburst? The always smart and provocative Randy Barnett works out the parallels in today's Wall Street Journal, and finds that Obama is the Wilson-esque boob in this round, since (some of)* the Nine were at the speech as a courtesy to the president:
For those who strongly object to the ruling in Citizens United and still do not see the impropriety of criticizing the Court this way, consider Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" outburst during the president's address to a joint session of Congress in September. No one denied the right of a congressman to criticize the accuracy of the president's remarks. The objection was to the rudeness and disrespect shown the president, for which Mr. Wilson promptly apologized. So too should the president.
If this is an indication of things to come, maybe there should be an official judicial response to the State of the Union from now on. Of course, it would come out months after the speech and be laden with footnotes. Which—after all the quickie liveblogging and vacuous official Republican response—might not be a bad idea.
The president fully expected that his hundreds of supporters in the legislative branch would stand and cheer, while the justices remained seated and silent, unable to respond even afterward. Moreover, the president's speech was only released about 30 minutes before the event, after the justices were already present. In short, the head of the executive branch ambushed six members of the judiciary, and called upon the legislative branch to deride them publicly….
More on the "not true" moment here.
*UPDATE: Not all of the Nine were there. Maybe that's why Obama could talk smack about them—they weren't at full strength.
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We all know what the real message was there: "Not true, BOY!"
No, what he was mouthing began with an N!
"since the Nine were at the speech as a courtesy to the president"
Not to quibble, but n ot all 9 justices were there. Only 5 or 6.
This SC decision is an outrage to our democracy. It is a shocking perversion of the clear text of the 1st amendment because individuals no longer have the right to freedom of speech. The corporations will now buy our representatives. Now they can run whatever ad they want and make most of us all vote for whoever the ads say to vote for.
That's weak, even for a Friday.
I think that you just swallowed your own poop.
really? are commercials really that effective? how many snuggies do you own sir?
I'm hoping this is sarcasm. If not, I would like to be put in contact with you and others of your ilk as I could find many uses for a group of people I could make obey my every whim with a 30 second TV spot. Once we dig you out from the 30,000 snuggies that you ordered due to corporate brainwashing.
All 30,000 snuggies are washed with 50,000 jugs of oxyclean.
Any spillage mopped up with Shamwows.
But watch what you say - this guy may have been stockpiling Ginsu knives since the late seventies.
Hey, snuggies are useful, especially for those of us too obese to work. A market niche was filled, i.e. the ability to work the remote and reach the fried dough without the inconvenience of cold arms.
You know, just because you say something, doesn't make it true. Especially when its unconnected in any way to the matter at hand. Its obvious from your post that you are parroting opinions and didn't read the opinion and that you don't understand the current state of election funding.
For all the sense you made, you might as well said ...
"Oh noes, Citizens United will lead the nuclear armogeddon because it allows well-funded companies to purchase nuclear weapons and use them as they see fit.!"
troll bait is old and out of date
Have you ever read the "clear text" of first amendment? The freedom of speech/press part says nothing about individuals or an individual right. It is a restriction on what government can do. Why is this so fucking difficult to understand?
I would imagine Alito is a former law professor. Obama is the type of smug know nothing first year that Alito used to slap around in Con Law for entertainment value. So here is Obama bloviating like some first year who hadn't done his reading and of course getting the law completely wrong. And Alito couldn't help himself but mouth something in response.
I had no idea Alito was such a racist! You can always tell by their names. If it ends on a vowel, racist. Sometimes consonants count too.
Like "Obama"?
He's a Black liberal so he can't be racist. You sure don't know much!
One more reason to cherish NYU Law; Con Law was a second year class (one of the only law schools in the country that does that). I asked the professor why that would be (being a bit annoyed that I couldn't just make my way to the contract and corp law classes that I was there for) and he said, "first year law students are too stupid to study the Constitution". Certainly helped to have a year under the belt, made the smack downs less painful
It's their insidious subliminal messaging! And their overwhelming our reasoning capacity with too many choices! How can we hope to cope?
It is flat out stupid to think that whatever influence businesses wield--and it's infinitely more fractured and less powerful than leftists fantasize--was any weaker under McCain-Feingold than it was before or since the ruling.
Leftists are terrified of individual responsibility. It terrifies them to think that they are free to vote as they like and are thus responsible for their actions. Better to think that they are always victims of larger unseen forces than face personal responsibility.
+1
Buffett, Gates, Woz, Jobs, Allen, Brin, Page and the rest of top tier capitalists who you call "leftists" are all terrified of individual responsibility?
You're still a fucking idiot, John.
Way to respond to the point there Tiger. Please feel free to come back and play again soon.
To your point, if you have one, why does being a billionaire necessarily mean that you embrace individual responsibility? Jobs can make a fine computer. So what? That says nothing one way or another about his opinion of human free will. Indeed, his political opinions indicate that he doesn't really have much use for individual responsibilty
You didn't have a point - just a mistaken notion.
Its sycophants like you who infiltrated the Republican Party and support the growth of government just because they have an R by their name.
Cheney told you "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter" and then went out put this edict into motion while you lotioned up for the Palin version of Dickless Cheney.
Would you abandon these miscreants? Fuck no.
You're too busy spouting nonsense like liberals are "terrified of individual responsibility".
Ayn Rand warned us that when the man she considered an idiot - Reagan - joined corporatism with religion - that this country was doomed.
Wow that is quite a rant. Reagan, Ayn Rand and Palin all in one. Jesus Shrike, take your meds for God's sake.
Rich does not equal capitalist, nor does it imply individual responsibility. (your strawman is on fire)
You're still a fucking idiot, shrike.
ok - Buffett. Not a capitalist.
Palin. Capitalist.
Yeah, right.
Shouldn't you be on a Greyhound headed to the Tea Party convention?
Capitalists, in the truest sense, don't seek regulator capture and aren't rent seekers. Most of the people on your list do both regularly. Don't be angry your strawman went down in flames, they are highly flammable.
Shouldn't you be fucking yourself, shrike?
You can be a capitalist without believing in capitalism (much like a Congressman can be a homosexual while believing that homosexuality is a terrible sin).
A guy that just won the lottery is rich, a guy that owns a good chunk of a major business is a capitalist.
No. They are all happy to see the government grow at the expense of individual responsibility. The bigger the government, the better they can cosy up to the government tit and suck.
Being a free speach purist - I'm happy with the Citizen's United decision.
Being a free speach purist - the President can use his little political theatre to slam the SCOTUS for their decision.
Being a free speach purist - the Justices are free, in response to the slam, to stand, grab their crotches and flip the President off.
[then slug Schumer clapping like seal behind them]
In fact, I think the constitution gives all citizens the right to slug Schumer.
Also, note the irony of how the big man with the microphone has had his message(s) of the night drowned out by a guy shaking his head and silently mouthing a few words. Kind of a interesting juxtaposition to the whole "corporations will drowned out the voice of the common man" stuff?
I'd like to subscribe to your Schumer beating newsletter. KTHXBAI
I disagree on points 2 and 3. Watching the clip, I found it appalling that Obama would attack the decision in those lying words, while the justices were sitting there, and while the Democrats all stood up and applauded. It went beyond the rudeness of using the podium to attack individual people in the room who cannot respond, beyond a separation of powers issue, and actually made me think of banana republics and Communist political theater. I half expected him to demand they stand up and engage in revolutionary self-criticism. It was a raw, nakedly partisan attack in a speech that included complaints about partisanship. What a friggin' hypocrite.
Obama is a politician. He has no actual principles that he wouldn't compromise, so it's useless to talk about where he stands on this issue, and meaningless to call him a hypocrite. He was using that part of the speech to play to his base and pretended to give "all due deference" to the guys he was attacking. Politician 1, Politics 0.
It's "speech," you dumbass.
When you can't argue on the merits just bully from the pulpit.
I think it was classless of Obama to call them out when he knew they'd just have to take it. It was a cheap shot, and it is yet another indication of Obama's ineptitude and misunderstanding of the Court's role in our system.
It was the kind of thing you do when campaigning for the New Hampshire primary. It was not Presidential. I really think Obama hates his job. Running for President and blowing smoke of people's asses for a living was great. Being President and actually having to accomplish something must really suck for him.
Even more classless are the trained monkeys of the Dem leadership who are outraged that someone would dare silently, silently!, disagree with the Obamcy. How rude we was! How outlandish!
*Must* they induce revenge fantasies in me involving heavy farm equipment and vats of acid?
Yeah no kidding. The guy mouthed something. It is not like he got up and started screaming. Had the camera not caught it, no one would have known. Their reaction is downright creepy.
Silence, peon! I hereby declare you to be a corporation, and revoke your right to speech.
WIN!
That's a great idea. Manipulate the tax code so that it becomes in everyone's interest to become an 'S' corporation for tax purposes. Then ban corporate speech. No more pesky naysayers!
How dare you point out the absurd implications of the inconsistent logic of statists.
You are an especially pernicious corporation:
Big Oil, Big Insurance and Big Pro Libertate
Yep, the Big Three.
JW,
Monkeys? You used monkeys about the party of color?
What? Monkeys are cute and sometimes funny. And they fling their poo!
Well, saying that they are trained is a bit of a stretch.
So you think people of color only attack whitey when he is defenseless? I will have you know that the statistics say otherwise!
This is becoming tiresome.
Are you new here?
True, and the reaction of his followers is pathetic too. They're screaming like chimps on meth that Alito has insulted The Great One--great punishment must follow! If you try talking to them about how classless and cowardly Obama was, they make impatient noises; like, dude, that "courage" and "honor" and "class" stuff is soooo old.
Chimps? You called them chimps?
AAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!
Two things about the reaction to Citizens United amazes me:
Isn't having the largest swath of speech possible (even if you disagree) the best outcome? Didn't someone once say that we should strive for that and let the most sensible, reasonable opinion win and that it would in fact win in the long run most times?
Second: Citizens United only affects advertising in teh final 30 days leading up to elections. Its not like before corporations couldn't use any money, and now suddenly the flood gates are open. Before: all the money they want up until 30 days prior to election. Now: all the money they want. How is that any kind of seismic shift?
30 for primaries, 60 days for general elections.
And only for "electioneering communications" (e.g. political advertisements). Direct contribution is still limited - an important distinction most detractors of the decision either don't realize or don't mention.
I'm going to with the former.
They mostly don't bother to knowledge up enough to be able to articulate the distinction. It's much easier to just get hysterical about how all the big corps are now going to destroy our civilization through commercials.
Sad, really
What I found curious was Obama's lame insistence that Congress pass a bill to remedy the SCOTUS ruling.
Uh, is that how it's done? Really? Can we at least ask for a supermajority?
Yep. Nothing says checks & balances like simply being able to overrule one of the three branches with a simple flick of the wrist.
Under that kind of thinking any number of communist dictators must be legitimate rules and entirely constrained by law, since many of them have Congresses or courts that "check" their power in teh same way that Obama apparently wants the court to be able to check the Congress.
I thought it was interesting that he asked for this too. I'd have to check again, but did he ask for a bill or an amendment to the Constitution?
If he was asking for a bill, what sort of bill could Congress pass that wouldn't fail the First Amendment test like this one did and still address what he sees to be an issue?
They'd have to first substantiate the claim that two groups can do the exact same thing, but for one it is speech and another it is not. I don't see how a rational mind could seriously make such an argument.
Contrast this with Eisenhower and Brown.
I have no doubt that Eisenhower was not pleased with the Brown decision, but no proof; AFAIK, he never commented on it in a way which was recorded.
Regardless of that, his comment when told of the decision was 'I'm the executive; my job is to enforce the laws. And the laws are defined by the SCotUS'.
And he did, to the everlasting hatred from many of his former supporters. And without using the justices as props in some half-baked morality play.
Or Bush with the Hamden decision. I guarantee you Bush was pissed about his decision. And that decision, unlike Citizens United, actually affected Bush and his ability to do his job. Bush was going to be held responsible if there was another 9-11. And I am sure he felt that the Supreme Court just made his job a lot harder. But he never said a word about it during is SOTUs. And if he had, the same people that are applauding Obama would have had a fit. The smug self righteous columns about the sacred independence of the Court pretty much write themselves.
Exactly. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed, and Bush attacked the Court this way, and Ruth mouthed her response while all the Republicans stood and applauded? And Bush demanded that Congress overturn the decision? There would be days of hysteria as the left screamed "He's a bully!" and "Doesn't he know about the separation of powers?!" And they'd be right.
And that decision, unlike Citizens United, actually affected Bush and his ability to do his job.
If you had just stuck with "Bush stayed quiet about a decision he disagreed with", you would have had no disagreement. But then you had to get greedy.
in the video, who is the woman at far right, in the suit and tie?
Paula Poundstone. She went on after Obama but her speech wasn't as funny.
Paula Poundstone.
Damnit! I drew a blank on her name for about 5 minutes. googling "female comedians who wear ties" wasn't very useful.
Sure doesn't look like Paula Poundstone to me.
She sure looks like a few stones and a few pounds to me
I work for a large corp as a contractor for another, both in the fortune 500. If either put out a political ad it would be to praise democracy, urge everyone to vote and to be kind to kittens and puppies.
Kittens are cute. I like your company.
So you're telling me that giant corporations aren't clamoring to piss off half of their customers in 30 seconds at the cost of a few hundred grand?
How about that.
True enough, but they also (likely) belong to a trade association or two, and those associations will lobby for favors, just like every other organization.
The problem isn't the lobbying; that's inevitable and *required* unless you want all the favors going elsewhere. The problem is being able to hand out those favors.
I was going to make a joke about the Lich King being in the front row, even though all of the Nine weren't present, but I'm just too dumbstruck by Bukkakinator's post.
I had a similar thought, but yeah that's a hard post to follow.
Thank goodness they took it down.
Glad I missed it. The last post he (or she, or it ... whatever) put up on another thread was just awful. Really pitiful
The rest of the Nine are out looking for the Ring.
+1
Ginsberg certainly looks the part
[comment on deleted post]
I'd like to subscribe to your Schumer beating newsletter.
I'd like to ghostwrite all the "I never thought it would happen to me, but..." letters for it.
It is undisputed that Citizens United overruled precedent (Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce), the rest is just squabbling over time line. Obama said 100 years, but Congress banned corporate expenditures around 1950. So Alito was saying "not true" in protest of the 40 year discrepancy? Right.
I think so. Either that or the claim that the decision allowed foreign corporations to give money.
It was the money thing, I'm sure, since that is just so blantantly wrong that Obama and his writers had to know it was a misrepresentation.
It was the foreign corporations claim. The opinion expressly said that it did not extend to that regulation. It remains the law
What part of "Congress shall make no law..." don't you people understand.
"What part of "Congress shall make no law..." don't you people understand?"
Probably the part where they make all kinds of exceptions, or maybe the part where they regulate all kinds of speech. I'm still undecided which part I don't understand the most.
But Chris Mathews forgot that Obama was Black when he was attacking the SCOTUS justices.
The corporatism added to religion is the community interest being more important than individual interests beliefs put forth by Obama. She believed in individual freedom and self-interests as more important, upon which America was founded, and that included the Christian ideals of the Golden Rule aimed at individuals, not groups. claysamerica.com
DRINK!
Someone, please delete the tl; dr post.
...Do you have a job? Shit.
The Spam filter stops links to the Wall Street Journal but lets this and anonmynity bot post away. Jesus Reason, the 15 year old you hired to run your server is spending all the money you gave him to upgrade it on dope.
I guess this stuff is so bad that even Larry Flynt won't pay for it? So your only alternative is to 'give' it away free?
Tell you what, there might be a market in you *not* writing stuff, sorta like paying *not* to see Madonna.
I know that some part of this is all my fault.
I'm sorry.
We actually need a new acronym for that thing. WTFL; DR.
Hey, drugs don't make you that stupid.
Oh what your creation has wrought.
Now that Bukkakinator's post is gone, this comment of mine looks a bit out of place . . . but hey, it's Friday and it's after noon.
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Well, the deletion of WTFLDR makes this post look retahhded.