Health insurance

The New Transparency

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Presidential adviser David Axelrod, discussing health care legislation on ABC's This Week yesterday: "People will never know what's in that bill until we pass it."

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Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason.

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  1. JImmy Jojo

    Well sadly, big medical has all the law makers bought and paid for so nothing will ever come out of it that actually benefits the Sheeple (thats us).

    Jess
    http://www.online-privacy.int.tc

  2. Neu Mejican

    An article that is tangential, but I am sure will be interesting to those ’round here.

    http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3q…..shame.html

    1. Ron L

      Guy seems to have a bit of trouble with consistency:
      “Broadly speaking, all political actors pursue their agendas by trying to narrow other people’s imaginations in order to make desired outcomes seem common-sensical and undesired outcomes outside the ambit of reasonable thought.”

      Which argues that to accomplish this, speech should be limited, followed by:

      “Last week’s decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission confirms that shamelessness is on the march. The decision was a shameless unleashing of further shamelessness: by a majority of five to four, the justices ruled that there can be no limits on the amount of money that corporations spend trying to influence the outcomes of local and national elections. The majority reached this decision by finding that corporate money is somehow a form of speech protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. I note for the record that no other country in the world treats it as such.”

      Where he opposes additional freedom with the old argument that our Euro ‘betters’ don’t call it speech. Of course even if they did, they’d limit it.

  3. Hope!

    Change!

  4. P Brooks

    I was on the phone at the time, but I thought I heard him say that.

    Go stick your finger tongue in a light socket, Dave.

  5. History

    “I think history will look back and say the president of the United States met his responsibility.”

    I think I will look back and give David Axelrod the finger.

  6. R C Dean

    Pish. You don’t meet your responsibilities by trying and failing. You meet them by actually accomplishing something.

    1. Bob #2

      That’s one of the quirks of liberal progressives: they don’t distinguish as heavily between intent and results as most people. My uneducated guess as to why that may be is that they tend to be more idealistic than most, so ideals speak more to them than the concrete.

      1. Rich

        That’s one of the quirks of liberal progressives: they don’t distinguish as heavily between intent and results as most people.

        Word. I wish I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard a progressive “answer” a question about their solution by merely stating the problem.

    2. Nick

      Everyone gets a trophy just for participating. And ice cream. With sprinkles.

  7. Davey Axelrod

    Look, people, think about Christmas, or your birthday. Isn’t it more fun to not know what’s in the present until you unwrap it? Are you the kind of person that sneaks around the house on December 12, trying to find where your gift is hidden? You aren’t, are you?

  8. Opie Curious

    Not to defend or attack the merits of the bill, but suggesting that comment was about transparency (or lack thereof) rather than experiencing the bill’s practical effects is a seriously uncharitable reading.

    Context, from the link in the post:

    “And let me tell you, as a political matter, the foolish thing to do would be for anybody else who supported this to walk away from it, because what’s happened is, this thing’s been defined by insurance company — insurance industry propaganda, the propaganda of the opponents, and an admittedly messy process leading up to it.

    “But the underlying elements of it are popular and important. And people will never know what’s in that bill until we pass it, the president signs it, and they have a whole range of new protections they never had before.”

    Pretty sure Axelrod is suggesting that people won’t understand their “whole range of new protections” until they’re realized, while right now the bill is subject to misleading attacks. Agree or not, it doesn’t seem like he’s suggesting he’s trying to keep secrets.

    1. BakedPenguin

      He might not have meant the comment to be about transparency, but if you don’t think that his comment is a reflection on Obama’s miserably broken promise of transparency, you are a fool or a water carrier.

      1. spambot

        I will charitable and go with water carrier.

        1. R C Dean

          See, I was going to be charitable and go with fool.

      2. Opie Curious

        Again, not trying to comment on the actual merits of the policy. And I have no interest at all in defending this administration’s transparency, which sucks. Saying it’s better than the previous one is like saying something is drier than water. To that end, the word choice has a nice ring of Freudian honesty to it, sure. Doesn’t mean it’s what Axelrod was actually saying.

        1. BakedPenguin

          Opie, I understand that. What I was saying is that Axelrod’s comment reflects the fact that there is no transparency in Obama’s administration.

          That it came out inadvertantly shows how clueless they really are – they can’t even keep their lies together anymore.

    2. Hank

      He’s right. People would would be ecstatic in a few years when that unicornesque range of protections kicked in. They would be equally smitten with the new taxes realized immediately.

      Healthcare Reform Now and Later. A new flavor.

    3. highnumber

      Totally agree with your interpretation, Mr Curious.

  9. E. J. Dionne

    My man!

  10. mitch

    “But the underlying elements of it are popular and important. And people will never know what’s in that bill until we pass it, the president signs it, and they have a whole range of new protections they never had before.”

    So this Obamatron thinks the bill is popular even though people don’t know what is in it?

    Well, I guess Obama was popular even though people didn’t know what he was all about, either.

    1. Corduroy Rocks

      This time, in the place I wanted it, dammit.

      My thoughts exactly. I think that statement qualifies for the “Dipshit of the Year” contest.

      Or maybe, “I’m making this up as I go along, so don’t hold it against me Award”

    2. Corduroy Rocks

      “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” ? F. Scott Fitzgerald

      According to Fitzgerald, Axelrod is a genius.

    3. Nick

      I know a few liberals who think the health care bill is what they want it to be rather than what it really is. These are the same people who projects all their expectations onto the person of Obama thinking he’ll just do what they would have done, but in a cooler way. It’s the Invisible God theme recreated. Believers all think God is good because he would do what they think God should do, minus the things that cause guilt within us. The only difference here is that if Obama does make a mistake, it’s because “his earthly opponents (read: GOP and their racist supporters) are in his way.”

  11. Corduroy Rocks

    My thoughts exactly. I think that statement qualifies for the “Dipshit of the Year” contest.

    Or maybe, “I’m making this up as I go along, so don’t hold it against me Award”

  12. J sub D

    No, I really can’t describe what this clustrfuck of a bill entails. I really don’t have a clue what effects it will have on health care, the deficit or international competiveness.

    Trust me. You’ll like it.

  13. spambot

    I mean car dealers don’t even use lines like that! I don’t know much about this car or who owned it or if it has issues but you will love it! WTF???

    We’re not Republicans got them through the last election but it is not working so well as a long term strategy.

  14. The Libertarian Guy

    Axelrod is an incredibly arrogant prick.

    1. Hank

      Despicable, but a hell of a Spinmeister!

      What’s much more irritating to me is the interviewer(s). What a joke? Worthless.

      1. Mr. FIFY

        I concur on both points above: Axelrod is a despicable prick and one hell of a Spinmeister.

  15. From Neu Mejican’s link:
    “The majority reached this decision by finding that corporate money is somehow a form of speech protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. I note for the record that no other country in the world treats it as such.”

    I note for the record that the author, Jeff Strabone, is a complete moron.

    1. J sub D

      Does any other country in the world have the equivalent of the First Amendment. You know, the one that starts out “Congress shall make no law …

      Maybe we should just jettison that inconvenient part of the constitution. After all, all the cool kids are doing it.

  16. Hank

    Cokie Roberts said something to the effect of: it’s not a substance problem, THEY don’t even know what in the hell is in the bill.

    Yet 33% of those polled support Obamacare. The President has an approval rating somewhere aroung 47%. How is that fucking possible? Liberals/progressives are irate. Conservatives certainly don’t support his agenda; well, except the Democratic canibalism and public backlash that will favor them in upcoming elections.

    So, who is this mysterious 47%? Independents in Mass? Surely not. It must be the 47% that wrapped up their politcal engagement after the Inauguration.

    Has anyone here ever participated in a poll? I’m finding it hard to find anyone who has, despite my frequent visitors to my folks’ basement.

  17. P Brooks

    Does anybody actually fall for that “evil corporate lobbyists are thwarting our awesome agenda” bullshit?

    1. J sub D

      Yes.
      I’m not credlous enough to buy it, but many are.

    2. Hank

      Absolutely! Don’t you know, the voters in Mass just sent Scott Brown to office to iron out a couple of details with the Dems. They didn’t give a shit about his campaign platform, they just thought he could work with the Dems a little more effectively than Coakley.

      Oh, and they are pissed. You know, the same anger that ushered in the “hope and change” era. They were so pissed at Bush, they voted Republican to further emphasize their anger over the past 8 years when Obama wasn’t in the US Senate. Look what else Bush fucked up — he got Brown elected.

  18. ?

    The President has an approval rating somewhere aroung 47%. How is that fucking possible? Liberals/progressives are irate.

    They’re not mad at him. They hate you.

    1. Hank

      Let me caucus with the majorities in Congress that I have. I’ll get back to you. It’ll be on C-span, though.

  19. Hazel Meade

    I don’t think even David Axelrod know’s what’s in the bill. otherwise he would just tell us.

    Or maybe, it’s like Easter candy. It’s supposed to be a surprise.

    1. Rich

      otherwise he would just tell us.

      Are you kidding?

      Axelrod can hardly “just tell us” his name.

  20. Dave

    Well damn! With a stand-up guy like David AxelRove … er, rod … pulling the strings, what could possibly go wrong? As a mere citizen of this nation, why would I ever want to know the details of a major piece of legislation before it’s passed? Hell, I’ll just leave that up to the brilliant people in Washington. Surely, they know what’s best for me! After all, that whole inconceivably large corporate bailout thing went so well! Unemployment is a thing of the past, the economy’s now humming along … Why *not* ram government mandated health insurance down my throat, too? Just so long as the unions are exempt from having the living piss taxed out of their own health insurance plans, I’ll be thrilled! It’s more than enough for rabble like me to know ObamaCare is popular & important; details should be left to the smart folk!

  21. The Libertarian Guy

    Dave, the target of said ramming is not the throat… it’s much lower and towards the back.

    1. Dave

      Touch? …

  22. Once more with context

    Cmon, Jacob. This is a cheap shot. Full context:

    But the underlying elements of it are popular and important. And people will never know what’s in that bill until we pass it, the president signs it, and they have a whole range of new protections they never had before.

    Obviously a reference to public knowledge about a bill (e.g. Medicare before enactment) and not about transparency/secrecy. Please keeping nailing the Obama admin on their actions, but this is kinda petty.

  23. jamessmith

    If the bill is so good, why the need for bribes, special deals and pressure? Why couldn’t the Dems get it done before? Because they didn’t have the votes in their own party. That they still don’t is telling.

    If the bill is so good, why would Pelosi entertain a vote by no vote? She says they will have the votes, so why the double speak? Why does poll after poll show a lack of public support? Why the crazy math to show “savings” or deficit reduction – especially for a bill that hasn’t been seen yet and the CBO has not analyzed for cost (if they can be trusted for proper analysis).

    This bill is no good, because it is marred by special deals that have no business being in the bill except to coerce votes in a political power grab. Had Obama truly had health care in mind, things would be very different. In the end it is a trillion dollar boondoggle on the American people. regards Backlinks

  24. mary

    This is political suicide. Every reputable poll shows that the vast majority of American’s DO NOT want this health care “reform” and associated tax increases, like the 3.8% tax on unearned income.

    Keep on this course, Democrats, and you’ll not only lose both the House and Senate, but you’ll be marginalized for the next 20 years.

    I, like most Americans, pledge to support every opposition candidate (including financially) until these Socialists-in-Democrat-clothing realize you cannot preempt America’s wishes and nationalize 1/6th of our economy without a massive political fallout. pad Web templates

  25. christine

    Obama is incredible in his belief that Americans still do not see through his painfully obvious attempts to manipulate events, and even more obviously a weak man who is at best guessing his way through a presidency that never should have happened. Would that this was the last president who gets elected by lying to the public. It’s pathetic, really. PSD WEB TEMPLATES

  26. smith

    Where’s ABC News update where the “Universal Health Care Plan” must go back to the House for approval due to ‘glitches’ in the plan, found by the Senate, that Obama signed? mizuno irons

  27. Latonya

    Surely, they know what’s best for me! After all, that whole inconceivably large corporate bailout thing went so well! Unemployment is a thing of the past, the economy’s now humming along. this page

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  29. hamber

    ‘ll just leave that up to the brilliant people in Washington. Surely, they know what’s best for our country. Thanks a lot for a bunch of good tips. I look forward to reading more on the topic in the future. Keep up the good work! This blog is going to be great resource. Love reading it.thermal infared

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