Reason Morning Links: News from the G20 Summit, the War on Terror, and the Kentucky Rumor Mill

- As police and demonstrators clash at the G20 summit, Gordon Brown declares the organization will become "the world's main economic governing council." Barack Obama says it will supplant the G8. On today's agenda: charges against Iran.

- More details emerge about Najibullah Zazi's alleged terrorist plot. Meanwhile, the FBI makes an arrest in a separate terror case.

- The initial AP report about Bill Sparkman, the Census worker recently found dead in Kentucky, does not appear to have been fully accurate.

- Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is hospitalized.

- A replacement is tapped for Ted Kennedy. Not so fast, says the GOP.

Comments

[Suki]

More details emerge about Najibullah Zazi's alleged terrorist plot. Meanwhile, the FBI makes an arrest in a separate terror case.

and new charges in the NC Jihad case. Target: Quantico.

[JW]

As police and demonstrators clash at the G20 summit, Gordon Brown declares the organization will become "the world's main economic governing council." Barack Obama says it will supplant the G8.

G-175 Nations Convene To Discuss How Things Can't Possibly Be Any Worse

[The Left]

The initial AP report about Bill Sparkman...does not appear to have been fully accurate.

Damn it all! We were this close to the break we've been looking for.

[Xeones]

Don't worry, The Left, the narrative is still going to be that a harmless minor federal employee was brutally murdered by racist, fascist libertarian teabaggers.

[Joe M]

I figured this would be worth a note in the morning links:

Elementary School Students Sing Song Praising Obama

Get ready for a partisan shitstorm on that one, I think. Already found a site claiming that Fox News mentioning this will incite racists to go find and hurt the children in the video. WTF? Because it's apparently okay to teach kids to sing about how great the president is, despite what their parents might think. The speech a few weeks ago has nothing on this.

[WWJGD]

It's that "raw, libertarian lust" for blood.

[John-David]

Meanwhile, the FBI makes an arrest in a separate terror case.

Yep, and the actual facts of that case are precious.

Federal officials said Hosam Maher Husein Smadi, who entered the U.S. illegally and lived in Texas, tried to set off an improvised explosive device attached to a vehicle at the base of the 60-story Fountain Plaza office tower.

And who build the "improvised explosive device" that Smadi tried to set off?

The FBI.

[John]

Imagine the vapors the media would be having if the 9-12 rally had been 1/100th as violent as your typical lefty G20 protest. As it is, a roving band of professional thugs shows up and tries to burn down whatever city hosts these things and the media shrugs. But remember the media is not completely and totally in the tank for the Democrats. Yeah right.

[MNG]

John I think its a bit more complex than that. After all the protestors are protesting a meeting that a Democratic President is attending (not to mention Labor Party head, Communist head of state, etc). The media has been covering it (I heard about the violence on NPR yesterday), but a narrative is harder to come by from it. Should the narrative be why do leftists hate leftist heads of state so much? I think it has less to do with media bias as it has to do with media simplicity...If they can't come up with a narrative where they can invite two pundits from each side and have them yell at each other, then they are stumped at how to sell these things...

[Tulpa]

One of the Greenpeace idiots who rapelled off of one of the bridges over the Allegheny yesterday to unfurl an anti-CO2 banner and had to be rescued by police is being held on $75,000 bond even as his buddies are already out of the pokey. The reason? He faces charges in Japan from an earlier incident and they want him extradited. Talk about STOOPID!

[Tulpa]

MNG, what party was the president from during the original Tea Party protests?

[Art-P.O.G.]

MNG,

Gee whiz, I wish the so-called MSM was capable of the nuance and subtlety of pro wrestling storylines: heel/heel conflict, face/face conflict and all that.

[John]

MNG,

If the protestors were in any way right wing, the media would have no problem coming up with a narative even if Glenn Beck were President. The narrative would be that anyone right of Ted Kennedy is a dangerous, violent crazy. But somehow, they can't seem to put a narrative to radical environmentalists and assorted other whackos who show up at these things and try to burn the place down. Why could that be.

[Tulpa]

Also, the whole MA senate thing is shameful beyond belief. First the legislature tries to game the system so that only a Dem governor can name a replacement, and now the governor claims it's an "emergency" so that the normal 90-day period between passage and effectiveness of MA laws doesn't apply.

Yeah, it's an emergency because the unions really, really want card check NOW.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Lord knows they got the gimmick angle down pat.

[Tulpa]

Since MNG has disappeared, I'll answer my own question. The Tea Partiers were protesting the actions of George Bush and Hank Paulson. Yet somehow the media bots managed to savage right-wingers protesting right-wingers without smoke coming out of their ears.

[SugarFree]

The initial AP report about Bill Sparkman, the Census worker recently found dead in Kentucky, does not appear to have been fully accurate.

I still haven't seen a quality explanation of why this murder is so important all the sudden. If the victim weren't a "census taker", a single murder in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky would have never become the center of left wing anger. And I'm getting tired of hearing about how exposing this possible "murder" is the greatest thing the left has done since rescuing Gore's hostages in North Korea.

[John]

If MNG ever comes back, there is nothing complex about it at all. The media links mainstream right with the rightwing kooks. But, never bothers to connect leftwing kooks with mainstream leftists. It is as if these G20 protestors are from Mars or something.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Speaking of pro wrestling, my kingdom for a wrestler with a mustache-twirling "Typical Libertarian" gimmick.

[Nick]

It's ironic how much destruction environmental terrorists cause, destruction that will eventually be repaired using energy from fossil fuels and the extraction of raw materials from the earth. And, of course, no one responds in their favor as a result of their actions, so what do they ever gain from it?

[John]

"And I'm getting tired of hearing about how exposing this possible "murder" is the greatest thing the left has done since rescuing Gore's hostages in North Korea."

How did they expose it? It is not as if the Police were refusing to investigate it.

[Art-P.O.G.]

SugarFree, is the "Cumberland Plateau" as backwater as the stereotypes suggest?

[John Tagliaferro]

It's that "raw, libertarian lust" for blood.

Isn't that Libertarian Vampire population pretty small?

[John Tagliaferro]

And who build the "improvised explosive device" that Smadi tried to set off?

The FBI.

And your issue there is what?

I could see an issue if the FBI used some sort of force on the guy to make him pull this stunt but nothing wrong with this guy approaching an FBI operative, asking for a truck bomb and them whipping one up for him, if that is what happened..

[MNg]

Tulpa
Card check is not why they are doing that, its health care. Card check was not going to pass dude. It's the "striker replacement ban" bill of this decade, a bone thrown to labor by a Democratic Party that has no intention of pushing for such things.

"The media links mainstream right with the rightwing kooks. But, never bothers to connect leftwing kooks with mainstream leftists."

That's actually a good point, one reason for the media's focus could be the amount of mainstream GOP identification with the tea party stuff contra the globalization thing. Did Chuck Shumer give a fiery speech to G20 supporters?

[SugarFree]

John,

I was just being a dick. I figured every one would recognize the condescension right away, considering the amount of it we got the other day.

[MNG]

Art
They did have Ted Dibiase, plutocrat extreme teaming with IRS as a heel tag team. Talk about a libertarian wet dream, a drama with plutocrats and the government trying to do in the average joe...

[MNG]

Heel/heel conflict is the best, and the rarest angle done imo.

[John]

"That's actually a good point, one reason for the media's focus could be the amount of mainstream GOP identification with the tea party stuff contra the globalization thing. Did Chuck Shumer give a fiery speech to G20 supporters?"

Did the 9-12 Marchers riot and try to burn down Washington? That is a nice slight of hand there MNG. But sorry, the G20 protestors are overwlemingly violent and nuts. The 9-12 protestors had a couple of people show up with signs that offended the MSM's delicate sensibilities.

If there were any paralel group of protestors on the right, the media would be calling for the Republican Party to be declared a terrorist organization.

[MNG]

"I was just being a dick."

That must have been quite a stretch playing that part.

I keed, I keed...

[SugarFree]

is the "Cumberland Plateau" as backwater as the stereotypes suggest?

Moreso, I dare say. All the Kentucky stereotypes are true, just not for the entire state. West of Lexington is alright, and west of Louisville is basically Midwestern in outlook and accent. It's flat over there. Something about hills and hollers that drains IQ and dignity.

[MNG]

"the G20 protestors are overwlemingly violent and nuts"

Yeah, but they are not connected to or endorsed by any mainstream Dems are they? That's my point.

[John]

Ok Sugerfree. I am a little dense and hung over this morning.

[MNG]

Kentucky needs to get a decent college football team. For a while there it looked like Louisville might step up, but no, they want to keep getting ass raped on the field.

Any picks on VT-Miami? I say Miami by 10.

[MNG]

Why be hungover when you can be drunk?

[smartass sob]

Elementary School Students Sing Song Praising Obama

I seem to remember Chinese school children singing the praises of Chairman Mao years ago. 🙂

[SugarFree]

That must have been quite a stretch playing that part.

It does come easily.

But on the murder story... poor Ron Mott is probably not having a good time on location.

My wife had to go to that area for a professional organization meeting. The only non-fast-food restaurant in town had the menu item "Mexican Nachos: foreign, but good" with out a hint of satire.

[MNG]

I will agree that historically leftist radicals have been given far too big of a pass. Think about how much you hear about the John Birch Society compared to SDS or the Black Panthers, when the latter two committed far more concerning acts during similar time periods.

[John]

"Yeah, but they are not connected to or endorsed by any mainstream Dems are they? That's my point."

Are the militia movement in any way connected to a mainstream Republican? Yet, the media is convinced that the Republicans are connected with and stirring up the militia movement. Yet, they never seem to connect the Dems to the nuts in Pittsburgh this week. Further, there are mainstream Democratic organizations like the National Lawyers Guild who are a part of the protests there. Just because Joe Biden isn't giving a speech, doesn't mean there are not connections between the Democratic Party and what is going on there. But, like I said, if you read the media reports you would think these people are from Mars.

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[Art-P.O.G.]

Something about hills and hollers that drains IQ and dignity.

Being from Ohio and taking trips down South sometimes, I know what you're talking about. There are parts of West Virginia that are beautiful, but you can feel Steve Smith's eyes on you.

[SugarFree]

Kentucky needs to get a decent college football team.

Hey, now. UK's gone to the crappiest bowl two years in a row.

We're playing the Gators tomorrow. We might even have a chance considering most of their starting line has the swine flu. (And yes, my poor city is already filled with Floridians.)

[John]

MNG,

Miami looks to be the real deal. VT is weak. They got dominated last week at home by Nebraska only to be saved by a lucky play. I bet Miami beats them and turns around and beats Oklahoma next week.

For the record, I don't think the Dems are responsible for the G20 nuts. And the media is right not to connect them to the protests. I just wish they would give Republicans the same curtisy.

[MNG]

John
I think they focus on the militia movement because of Timothy McVeigh to be honest. I had not heard much about them before that.

Another reason is the gun thing.

[John]

There are some really remote scary places in this country. One of my friends is stationed at Fort Polk Lousiana. The town has a Wall-Mart and ten strip clubs. The nearest restaurant with edible food is a Cracker Barrell an hour and a half away. And the place is infested with coral snakes.

[Atanarjuat]

The linked article about the census worker has the following keywords: "Bill Sparkman, FBI, Kentucky, Right-wing extremism"

[John]

"John
I think they focus on the militia movement because of Timothy McVeigh to be honest. I had not heard much about them before that."

That is true. The G20 protestors are just assholes who break windows. They as of yet have not killed 162 people. I do, however, wish the media would portray them as the assholes they really are. I mean people have to live in Pittsburgh and I doubt they appreciate these clowns showing up and shutting down the city.

[MNG]

John
Agreed on Miami. They play OK next week? That is going to be interesting.

Are they linking the mainstream GOP to militias? I've seen the link to tea partiers, but that's a defensible link (and given teh tea parties are peaceful a non-problematic one imo).

As I said, it's hard to link the G20 guys to the Dems when its a Democratic President they are mad at right now...

[SugarFree]

I think the better analogy is:

Dems support anti-war protests the same as GOP does the TEA parties, but neither openly support the militias/G20 riots.

I think the militia=GOP tendency in the left bias of the MSM, but not in the normal sense. Most of them went to college with hard leftists and MUGs and know they are, by and large, full of hot air. The militia movement is a dangerous Other and unfamiliarity breeds their semi-hysteria.

[MNG]

It would be nice to see more focus on the violent protestors as the assholes they are. But their shenanigans were covered pretty extensively this week. Just not so much their motives and such.

[WWJGD]

Per the discussion and post from a day or two ago, Nadler and Dreier are arguing over the ACORN punishment on the House floor right now. Nadler has claimed that it must be an administrative punishment and did hint that it was a bill of attainder.

[John]

MNG,

Read the Jessee Walker post from yesterday.
http://reason.com/blog/show/136331.html

I would say Neiwert is linking the Republicans to the milia movement. They do it by implication. First it is Republicans = Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the 9-12ers. Then it is Beck and Limbaugh is encouraging and emboldening the violent right. It is a little more subtle than Tom Colburn is a militia supporter.

[phalkor]

it is kinda fun watching them get arrested, though.

[John]

I don't understand why they just don't host these meetings in China every year. Dealing with the Chicoms would take all of the fun out of breaking windows and protesting.

[SugarFree]

Ha. Not even the Jezebel gals, who've never met an anti-capitalist, left-progressive stance they didn't want to gay marry, don't think much of the G20 protesters.

[Citizen Nothing]

I think the state of Kentucky would be happy just to have a good basketball team.

Hehe - just kidding. Please don't hurt me, Rick Pitino.

[John Tagliaferro]

I think they focus on the militia movement because of Timothy McVeigh to be honest. I had not heard much about them before that.

Weren't more than a few in the MSM and the LWM calling him an angry white Southerner?

[John]

"Hehe - just kidding. Please don't hurt me, Rick Pitino."

He won't hurt you. He will just make you marry some woman he knocked up in one of the back booths at the Scotch and Serloin.

[John]

"Weren't more than a few in the MSM and the LWM calling him an angry white Southerner?"

Yes. And he was from Kansas, was an athiest and most of his views on the middle east and US foreign policy could have come straight from Juan Cole.

[James Ard]

Yea, I took Kentucky and 21.5 in my pool. But, damnit please don't touch any Gator players, of for god's sakes wear masks, Bama's coming to town next week.

[bookworm]

"I bet Miami beats them and turns around and beats Oklahoma next week."

As an OU fan, I hope not.

[ll blow j]

"so what do they ever gain from it?"

They're hoping to get laid.

[Warty]

They're hoping to get laid.

That, and violence is fun (when you're not in any danger).

[John Tagliaferro]

Yes. And he was from Kansas, was an athiest and most of his views on the middle east and US foreign policy could have come straight from Juan Cole.

Lockport and Pendleton, New York are noplace near Kansas or the South.

[John]

Yeah, that is right John. He lived in Kansas but grew up in Upstate New York. My mistake.

[John]

Bookworm,

I think OU is in trouble. They don't have an offensive line and their top reciever is out for the year. Why Bradford turned down being the top pick in the draft to play for free behind a rebuilt offensive line is beyond me. The kid must have some kind of brain damage or maybe Stoops has some kind of blackmail material on him.

[R C Dean]

Interesting challenge by the GOP to Ted Kennedy's replacement. The GOP is arguing that Massachusetts legislation can't go into effect for 90 days, and that the Governor has no authority to override that requirement with an "emergency" letter.

For the life of me, I can't imagine what the "emergency" is in having a Senate seat vacant.

Of course, the odds of a Mass court overturning or delaying the appointment are pretty much nil. But if they did so after he was sworn in and seated, it would create quite a nice mini-Constitutional crisis.

[John Tagliaferro]

For the life of me, I can't imagine what the "emergency" is in having a Senate seat vacant.

There isn't a Communist sitting in it ready to vote.

[bookworm]

"I think OU is in trouble. They don't have an offensive line"

Their offensive line did well against Idaho and Tulsa, but maybe that's not saying much against those relatively weak teams. Hopefully, it was only first game butterflies for them in their loss against BYU.

[robc]

Heading to the hills and hollers (not Cumberland Plateau though, south-central KY) on saturday for a family reunion. Considering my family (both sides) that came from there, it seemed to have no effect on IQ. Then again, Ive met some of their neighbors, so maybe they were the flukes.

[Joe M]

Of course, the odds of a Mass court overturning or delaying the appointment are pretty much nil. But if they did so after he was sworn in and seated, it would create quite a nice mini-Constitutional crisis.

Gee, if they did that, wouldn't it be a coup?

[Johnny Longtorso]

Why Bradford turned down being the top pick in the draft to play for free behind a rebuilt offensive line is beyond me.

The alternative was playing for Detroit.

[Rich]

There are some really remote scary places in this country. One of my friends is stationed at Fort Polk Lousiana.

One of my friends who was stationed at Polk described it as the only place where you could be up to your waist in swampwater and have sand blowing in your face.

[JW]

Guys, guys, don't argue, please. What's important to take away from all of this is that the G-20 protesters aren't racist.

[kinnath]

Of course, the odds of a Mass court overturning or delaying the appointment are pretty much nil. But if they did so after he was sworn in and seated, it would create quite a nice mini-Constitutional crisis.

Is there an opportunity for Senate Republicans to refuse to seat the interim Senator, given the constitutional challenge in MA?

Assuming the MA courts will dismiss the challenge, is there an opportunity to appeal to SCOTUS?

[John]

"The alternative was playing for Detroit."

I think Stafford got something like $35 million gaurenteed. I will take 35 mil and 0-16 anytime.

[Johnny Longtorso]

I will take 35 mil and 0-16 anytime.

I went to Texas (BA and MA) and I'd pick the Sooners and Norman, OK over Detroit and the Lions.

[MNG]

"Weren't more than a few in the MSM and the LWM calling him an angry white Southerner?"

I don't remember that, it was the "anti-government gun nut" meme that I remember.

[MNG]

kinnath
I would think the problem would be this: while the law describes the procedure on how to replace Senators, the law also allows for the legislature and executive to change those procedures.

[MNG]

I would have thought all the state's rights" people would be loudly arguing that this is Massachussetts business and everyone else should butt out 😉

[John]

"I went to Texas (BA and MA) and I'd pick the Sooners and Norman, OK over Detroit and the Lions."

For free? No thanks. I went to Oklahoma State. I loath OU. But if the Sooners came calling with a $35 million job, I would be singing boomer sooner. Sports loyalties are nice and all, but cash is different. And also, any city, even Detroit can be damn livable with the right bank account.

[kinnath]

I would think the problem would be this: while the law describes the procedure on how to replace Senators, the law also allows for the legislature and executive to change those procedures.

If the text of the law said that "this time only, we bypass the 90 day waiting period", then fine.

But I have less respect for a Govenor's "emergency letter" than I did for Bush's "signing statements".

[John]

"I would have thought all the state's rights" people would be loudly arguing that this is Massachussetts business and everyone else should butt out ;)"

Very true. It is a state issue. If the Massholes want to live in a one party state, that is their business.

[Johnny Longtorso]

I went to Oklahoma State.

How 'bout them Coogs? 🙂

[John]

How about them. I knew that was a trap game. Houston is a pretty good team. And OSU was beat up mentally and physically after Georgia. It was the perfect set up for Houston. The got a couple of breaks and that was it. Oh well.

[Citizen Nothing]

Every year, my Buckeyes soften up the Trojans for their next opponent. But do we ever get any thanks?

[Solanum]

SF, are you familiar with the HBO doc American Hollow?

I've driven through eastern KY and TN a few times. I was careful not to stray too far from the interstate.

[Nick]

Man you guys are making me excited just to be back in Tallahassee 2 weeks from now. I haven't been there since I graduated 9 years ago. Go 'Noles!

(And, yo, fuck Miami...and receivers who can't catch.)

[R C Dean]

Actually, the 90 day suspension of new legislation is in the Mass constitution, so the legislature can't set it aside.

The governor can set it aside, by issuing a statement of emergency.

I think the real issue before the court is whether a Senate vacancy for a few months is really an emergency, or whether the governor can, in effect, set the 90 day suspension aside at his unlimited discretion.

I'm pretty sure I know how a Dem judge (and yes, he's a Dem) will rule.

[R C Dean]

I would have thought all the state's rights" people would be loudly arguing that this is Massachussetts business and everyone else should butt out 😉

Why shouldn't a states rightser demand that the state constitution be followed?

[Joe M]

I'm sure Thomas Friedman would be pleased to see the efficiency of one party rule in Massachusetts.

[Johnny Longtorso]

soften up the Trojans

They make medicine for that now. We will soon be comment spammed trying to sell you some.

[John]

SF,

Have you ever watched the documentary Harlan County USA? It is about a coal miner strike in eastern Kenntucky in the 70s. Even though it is a total lefty pro-union doc, it is seriously compelling. You can't make people up like that are in that movie. And they are not toothless hillbillies. Just very interesting compelling people.

[bigbigslacker]

I'm guessing this commenter from the Kentucky link didn't read the recent militia hysteria piece at Reason. Visit the link to read the whole stupid thing. Or don't - it's the usually drivel coming from a leftist that thinks himself "informed". I was amused, but that isn't saying much.

The FBI don't want people to jump to conclusions because there is a very real possibility that the circumstances were deliberately contrived to lay a false trail.

But that does not change the fact that the Republican party has been silent as their supporters have been using increasingly violent language in their anti-government protests. I do not know of a single Republican who has spoken out against clear threats of violence such as the poster saying 'we cam unarmed THIS TIME'.

[ll blow j]

Imagine if there were no reliable records of global surface temperature. Raucous policy debates such as cap-and-trade would have no scientific basis, Al Gore would at this point be little more than a historical footnote, and President Obama would not be spending this U.N. session talking up a (likely unattainable) international climate deal in Copenhagen in December.

Steel yourself for the new reality, because the data needed to verify the gloom-and-doom warming forecasts have disappeared.

Or so it seems. Apparently, they were either lost or purged from some discarded computer. Only a very few people know what really happened, and they aren't talking much. And what little they are saying makes no sense.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTBiMTRlMDQxNzEyMmRhZjU3ZmYzODI5MGY4ZWI5OWM

[MNG]

RC
See kinnath @ 10:43

"Every year, my Buckeyes soften up the Trojans for their next opponent."

I didn't think last year's 35-3 whipping softened up anyone but Ohio State...

[Joe M]

Nice link ll blow j. I like this part:

Now begins the fun. Warwick Hughes, an Australian scientist, wondered where that "+/-" came from, so he politely wrote Phil Jones in early 2005, asking for the original data. Jones's response to a fellow scientist attempting to replicate his work was, "We have 25 years or so invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?"

Reread that statement, for it is breathtaking in its anti-scientific thrust.

[Tonio]

MNG, what party was the president from during the original Tea Party protests?

It's a trick question, guys. The original tea party protest occurred before the Declaration of Independence, so there was no (US) president.

Good one, Tulpa.

[BakedPenguin]

I don't understand why they just don't host these meetings in China every year. Dealing with the Chicoms would take all of the fun out of breaking windows and protesting.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised to see the next one there. They'll have to acknowledge the world's largest economy, after all.

And while I've always thought myself something of an absolutist on free speech and the right to protest, for me, flinging a burning dumpster down the street doesn't quite qualify. If the police initiated the violence, you could make a case for self-defense, but a much better one for getting the hell out of there.

Speaking of pro wrestling, my kingdom for a wrestler with a mustache-twirling "Typical Libertarian" gimmick.

Futurama had Billionaire Bot in its robot wrestling episode. Not sure that counts, although he did have a monocle.

[R C Dean]

RC
See kinnath @ 10:43

Sure, MNG. Anything for you.

Is there an opportunity for Senate Republicans to refuse to seat the interim Senator, given the constitutional challenge in MA?

With only 40 votes, I wouldn't think so.

Assuming the MA courts will dismiss the challenge, is there an opportunity to appeal to SCOTUS?

Probably not, since its a state constitutional issue.

[Tonio]

Regarding the missing, or otherwise unavailable, climate data: This could be huge. Bigger than the ACORN take-down. Hoping that Ron Bailey is on this.

Jones comes across as a typically dishonest leftist by refusing to release data, then digs himself in deeper by claiming the data were lost. Don't know what would be worse -- incompetently losing the raw data, or deliberately losing the raw data to avoid exposure of an inconvenient truth. Seems like the original raw data might still exist somewhere, although it would have to be collected from the various original sources. We need to stay on top of these people and crowd-source them mercilessly.

[Isaac Bartram]

...soften up the Trojans...

I'd have to say that if your Trojans aren't soft you've kept them way past their "use by" date.

You could end up with something you really don't want.

[ll blow j]

This is why we should repeal the 17th Ammendment. Pre 17th Ammendment, the MA legislature gould just pick someone.

[Isaac Bartram]

No, Pre 17th Ammendment, the replacement would be picked according to the provisions od state law, just as the actual senators were.

People were no safer from politicos gaming the system in "the old days" than they are now.

I totally agree on repealing the 17th Ammendment, though. But that's almost the official H&R position, isn't it? :).

[Isaac Bartram]

Just as there were states where women had the right to vote before the 19th Amendment, there were states that had popular election of Senators before the 17th.

I got to say that while this is typical political gaming, there's probably not to much to be done. After all, in a democracy the legislature's will is infallible (except in Honduras, apparently).

I can just imagine the wailing and gnashing that would be going on if a Republican legislature and Governor had done this to get a filibuster prof Senate for a GOP prez, though.

[Nick]

From the Brickbats:

In England, organizers of an inter-school sports day banned parents from the event because of concerns about kidnappers and pedophiles. More than 270 students from four schools competed in various athletic events as parents didn't watch. Paul Blunt, a spokesman for the organizers, said "All unsupervised adults must be kept away from children. An unsavory character could have come in, and we just can't put the children in the event or the students at the host school at risk like that."

The UK bangs out such mindboggling stories at an alarming, if not impressive, rate.

[Neu Mejican]

G20 footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA

Surreal.

[The Libertarian Guy]

"...the law also allows for the legislature and executive to change those procedures."

Which the Dems did... four years ago... then changed it again... to keep themselves in power in that particular Senate seat.

Got to love that.

Wait... no, fuck it. There's nothing lovable about it.

[The Libertarian Guy]

And hey, folks, how about the G-2O protesters?

Funny how the left and right considers libertarians to be "anarchists", but doesn't really apply that label when ACTUAL anarchists start causing trouble.

At least we libertarians don't engage in violence.

[Neu Mejican]

It seems to me that John and others on this thread are willing to ignore the idiots in the Tea Party protests (the racists are a fringe of idiots, so it is unfair to use them to characterize the protest...true) while at the same time characterizing the masses of peaceful G20 protesters as violent based on the actions of a very small minority. Just saying.

Watch the video I posted above...pretty surprised that the H&R folks haven't highlighted the police action in the incident. Particularly when they start arresting non-protesters willy-nilly for being "unlawfully assembled" near where the protests happened

[The Libertarian Guy]

Neu, there's no excuse for the treatment of the non-protesters. OTOH, there's no need to sugarcoat the presence of violence-leaning leftists, either.

When EITHER extreme wing starts throwing shit and threatening people, it's just as bad and neither side is justified by such actions.

[Neu Mejican]

Libertarian Guy,

Neu, there's no excuse for the treatment of the non-protesters.

I would say that should be non-protesters and non-violent protesters.

OTOH, there's no need to sugarcoat the presence of violence-leaning leftists, either.

Don't sugar coat, but don't use their presence to paint the whole of the protesters as violent.

When EITHER extreme wing starts throwing shit and threatening people, it's just as bad and neither side is justified by such actions.

And it is even worse when the police do it, imho.

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