Working Together, We Can Blah Blah Blah…
In today's Washington Post, former House Majority Leader and Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole suggests that, like old produce, the health-care reform debate has gone rotten, and is need of a "fresh start." And the best way to restore it to its original ripe, pristine state, he thinks, would be for Obama to finally offer a detailed health-care plan of his own.
Helpful advice? Hardly: As is so often the case in Washington when one party gives a member of the other party advice, it's little more than a pretext for fetishistic bipartisanship. Here's Dole, breaking it down:
Republicans have different ideas but for the most part are positive about reform if the government has a minimal role. Democrats would eventually regret it if Republicans are forced to take a nearly party-line vote.
…A bipartisan ending will have more credibility with the American people. Indeed, most important legislation in U.S. history has had broad bipartisan support.
Can't you feel the love? The tenderness? The togetherness? It's all so wonderfully, delightfully … bipartisany. And who could be against bipartisanship? Not Bob Dole, that's for sure!
Problem is, it's unlikely that bipartisanship on the scale Dole wants is even possible: In recent weeks, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl has been spotted saying that even with deficit neutrality and without a government insurance plan, Republicans may not go along with reform. And Republicans supposedly working toward a bipartisan compromise have indicated that they might go so far as to reject their own compromise if it doesn't bring enough fellow party members along.
So given the shape of Republican opposition, which is foremost a tactical, political opposition rather than one founded on specific policy concerns, it's not clear that any proposal Obama could put forward would actually bring additional Republican support. It may or may not be true that, as Dole says, "Republicans… for the most part are positive about reform," but it's not clear what kind, and any desire to reform is undoubtedly secondary to a desire to deal Obama a major political loss.
Furthermore, it doesn't stand to reason that an Obama proposal would reduce the level of chaos and acrimony surrounding the bill. More specifics means more for people to dislike—indeed, polling suggests that preference for reform declines the more one learns about the bill. Obama has thus far been able to hedge and dodge when pressed about details in large part because he's refused to spell out exactly what he does and doesn't support. Republicans would finally be able to stick Obama with an actual "Obama plan" that so far hasn't materialized.
Only in a David Broder dreamscape—or perhaps the offices of the Bipartisan Policy Center, where Dole now sits on the advisory board—would an Obama plan be likely to shift the debate from messy political warfare to Hands Across Capitol Hill. Of course, in Washington, doing things that make sense is hardly a prerequisite for either party—at least not as long as those things are done together.
Read Radley Balko and Matt Welch on bipartisanship in Washington.
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Lets hear it for short-term tactical politics.
Seeing as the only possible ground for any kind of "bipartisan" legislation would involve massive increases in federal involvement in health care finance and, therefore, delivery, I can think of no bipartisan bill that wouldn't be bad, bad, bad. Even if it didn't have a public option. Even, perhaps especially, if it was deficit neutral (seeing as deficit neutral = higher taxes).
"Problem is, it's unlikely that bipartisanship on the scale Dole wants is even possible: In recent weeks, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl has been spotted saying that even with deficit neutrality and without a government insurance plan, Republicans may not go along with reform. And Republicans supposedly working toward a bipartisan compromise have indicated that they might go so far as to reject their own compromise if it doesn't bring enough fellow party members along. "
Considering that any compromise would result in a greater and thus more destructive government role in healthcare, isn't this a good thing? Republican support would just give the "bipartisan everyone who objects must therefore be a nut" stamp of approval to this bag of shit.
Suderman should be congratulating Republicans for being so obstinate about this. Seriously, doesn't Suderman actually believe in anything anymore? You would think anyone who supported small government would be happier with no plan than they would be with some bipartisan government expansion.
Good 'ol Bob Dole.
Didn't Newt Gingrich once call him the "tax collector for the welfare state?"
John, this, to me, is the tell from Suderman:
So given the shape of Republican opposition, which is foremost a tactical, political opposition rather than one founded on specific policy concerns,
"Bipartisanship" is what happens when the Crips and Bloods find an untended armored car at the same time.
Actually that is technically Brotherhood.
"So given the shape of Republican opposition, which is foremost a tactical, political opposition rather than one founded on specific policy concerns,"
So what? I guess Suderman wants the Republicans to come up with their own plan and specifics. Why? They are not in power. They have no obligation to do so. Further, doing so would just take the attention away from how awful the Dem plan is. Further, it would allow the Dems to move towards their side and sell a defeat as a compromise. Screw that. Say no and let the Dems destroy themselves and at least keep from doing harm.
I prefer to think of bipartisanship as the political gang rape.
John,
I'm not in favor of any variation on any reform bill I've seen talked about seriously this year. But I also think nonsensical bipartisanship, from either party, should be called out as the utter nonsense it is.
?Bipartisanship is just another word
for nothing left to steal?
"I'm not in favor of any variation on any reform bill I've seen talked about seriously this year. But I also think nonsensical bipartisanship, from either party, should be called out as the utter nonsense it is."
I agree with you then. I think Bob Dole is being a clown here. It is the old game that got us into this. When Dems are in power everyone is bi-partisian and agrees for government to expand really fast rather than kind of fast. When Republicans win, everyone is bi-partisan and agrees to let the Dems keep their winning and expand government fast rather than really fast.
How about shrinking it for once?
BIPARTISANSHIP IS WHEN NANCY PELOSI AND MICHELE BACHMANN EXPLORE EACH OTHER'S POLITICAL BODIES.
A failure of health care reform due to republican opposition that is based on policy differences is good for republicans. That failure, when the opposition is done for political reasons, could be trouble for the GOP. Especially with the media being slightly biased.
Bipartisan consensus makes my ass hurt.
In today's Washington Post, former House Majority Leader and Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole suggests that, like old produce, the health-care reform debate has gone rotten, and is need of a "fresh start."
The debate has "gone rotten"? I think not. Dole might be aghast that the peasantry has durst inject their unwashed opinion into the "debate" but that does not equal rottenness.
A bipartisan shit sandwich still tastes like crap.
See No Child Left Behind and Medicare Prescription Drug Coverage for recent examples.
Here's the headlines in the next elections.
GOP wanted war, dems went along=bipartisanship.
GOP wanted patriot act, dems went along=bipartisan.
GOP wanted huge medicare drug bill, dems went along=bipartisan.
GOP wants huge stimulus, dems go along=bipartisan.
Dems want to fix our unfair broken healthcare debacle. Republicans play politics and screw the poor again without offering real solutions.
That probably should read, "the peasantry have durst inject their unwashed opinions
A bipartisan ending will have more credibility with the American people.
That infinitely small segment of the American people with whom Bob Dole speaks on a regular basis, perhaps.
Bob Dole is still alive? Man, i bet even Bob Dole is surprised to know that.
Deregulate medical services and health insurance. Not down to zero, just down from eleven.
They should make one for 'bipartisanship':
http://despair.com/meetings.html
(yes, I saw http://despair.com/government.html)
They should go back to the drawing board, rethink the whole thing, and maybe introduce some of those market-oriented reforms that we've been advocating.
Fuck. I'm daydreaming again....
Is Bob Dole hoping Viagra will be covered? Who's your daddy?
Is it just me or does Dole look taller since he got on the Viagra?
The GOP may be opportunistic fuckers who spend like Dem Lites while in the majority, but if they'll be opportunistic fuckers while in the minority, that's good.
There isn't a thing wrong with them scuttling Obama's health care plans to make him look bad. Shit, it's what they're supposed to do. If they don't, why are there two fucking parties in the first place?
Wait- there are TWO parties?
I have the solution. Get govt out of healthcare, and see how inexpensive it actually is! Most of the cost is govt-based.
As far as "Republicans being the problem", huh? They never include the Repukians in anything, and they will all be in the unemployment line the next election comes due (both parties).
When you treat us with arrogance, we kick your butt out! 😉
What about vouchers? why can't both parties agree on that? It's so disheartening to read bill bradley say a compromise is "obamacare plus tort reform". Kill me now.
No Ben,
It is not 1964 anymore. People don't trust government like they used to. No one is going to lament the end of Obamacare.
Johnny Longtorso,
Short notice.
No matter what Obama does...the republicans will shoot it down.
No matter what a Republican President does...the democrats will shoot it down.
Obama should just forget about the republicans and do what Bush/Cheney did...JUST DO IT!
"Obama should just forget about the republicans and do what Bush/Cheney did...JUST DO IT!"
Well that certainly worked out well for them didn't it?
GOP wanted huge medicare drug bill, dems went along=bipartisan.
You don't remember Al Gore's grandma taking cat lipitor? I'd say the GOP gave in on a prescription benefit more than wanted a huge medicare drug bill. Didn't Kennedy want a bigger one?
Yes he did. And the Republicans were also accused of selling out to the big drug companies because they actually gave people some choice in how the plans worked. The Dems wanted a top down soviet style program. Of course Bush was an evil free marketeer radical right wing nut for passing the biggest health program since medicare. All of our problems are because he was such a small government nutjob.
brotherben,
That's why Obama is a one term President.
For what it's worth, Dole was Senate Majority Leader, not House Majority Leader.
And there is a reason he was known as the tax collector for the welfare state...
"...it's not clear that any proposal Obama could put forward would actually bring additional Republican support."
That's just not true. If Obama puts forward John Mackey's reform plan, he'll get the majority of Republicans to support it.
Think before you type, dude.
Don't worry guys, By 2012, you'll have a Republican President. And everything will be better.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any important bills that were passed without Democrats' support from 2001-2006? I can't think of any.
"That's just not true. If Obama puts forward John Mackey's reform plan, he'll get the majority of Republicans to support it."
YEah but anything that doesn't include a public plan and isn't a trojan horse for single payer will cause the left to get a case of the vapors and redisover that maybe the war in Iraq and rendition are fierce moral urgencies. So basically Obama is screwed. He can either pass a wildly unpopular program by brute force or he can come with something people can live with and face the wolves to his left. And once he is done with healthcare he gets to deal with the budget deficit (welching on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class), EFECA, and cap and theft, all of which are more unpopular and just important to his more derranged supporters than Obamacare.
Alice, i realize you're addled from years and years (and years and years and years) of hard drug abuse, but you're aiming that cap gun of snark at the wrong people.
"Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of any important bills that were passed without Democrats' support from 2001-2006? I can't think of any."
What you mean Democrats voted for the Patriot Act, the invasion of Iraq and tax cuts? No way. Next you will be telling me they were briefed on and approved of CIA torture techniques. I don't believe it.
X, it got me right through the heart.
X, it got me right through the heart.
I bet. Whenever i see your name, my first thought is, "Uh oh, here comes another right-wing extremist Republican post from brotherben."
"I bet. Whenever i see your name, my first thought is, "Uh oh, here comes another right-wing extremist Republican post from brotherben."
All my movement Republican friends think I am some kind of a wierdo radical. Yet, on here I am a Republican shill. All things are relative.
John,
Either way, Obama will loose 2012.
The Gays are not Happy
The Druggies are not Happy
The Liberals are not Happy
The Libertarians (who voted Obama in ) are not Happy
And, the Conservatives never liked him anyway
There's no chance of him winning.
I wonder if Obama knows this...because if he does...he should just do what he wants.
Xeones ,
No fears, it's only a cap gun.
Alice,
The only thing is that other than the libertarians the rest of those groups either don't vote or will suck it up and vote for him anyway. When it comes to civil liberties, liberals and some Libertarians are like battered wives in that regard.
I ain't scurred, Alice.
I wonder if Obama knows this...because if he does...he should just do what he wants.
Fortunately, this isn't Imperial Rome, and he can't. Unless he wants to go down to the White House kitchen in his socks and make himself a sandwich. He can do that if he wants.
He can either pass a wildly unpopular program by brute force or he can come with something people can live with and face the wolves to his left.
Most republicans, Rush Limbaugh-like supporters, will poop on Obama no matter what he does.
Even if he eliminated
- Affirmative Action
- Welfare
- All Goverment intervention on Banking and Insurance
- Sent Gays to concentration camps
- Outlaw abortion
- Used Mexicans at the border as target practice
The Right-Wing people will vote him out.
Republicans still have to find someone to beat an incumbent president. They also have to put up a united front. Voters are a fickle crowd. It will be interesting.
Against, against, against, against, and against. IOW, the lack of bipartisanship in health care reform is a feature, not a bug. I submit that if the Dems had displayed some testicular fortitude during Bush the Lesser's terms we wouldn't have as many proplems.
Alice, if he were to implement that agenda, he would be out of office because he lost the Dem nomination. Whether Repubs would vote for him would be a moot point.
And I doubt he would win a lot of Repub votes by sending gays to concentration camps or shooting Mexicans at the border, to tell you the truth. Believe it or not, most Repubs aren't bloodthirsty bigots.
Fortunately, this isn't Imperial Rome, and he can't. Unless he wants to go down to the White House kitchen in his socks and make himself a sandwich. He can do that if he wants.
I should imagine he has a steward? chef? whatever on duty 24 seven just for that purpose.
All my movement Republican friends think I am some kind of a wierdo radical. Yet, on here I am a Republican shill. All things are relative.
True that. At different recent family events, i have been accused of right-wing extremism AND communist sympathies by the same people. It's like, thinking dualistically is easy, so let's not consider more than two options ever.
"Republicans still have to find someone to beat an incumbent president. They also have to put up a united front. Voters are a fickle crowd. It will be interesting."
Obama's only chance is to lose the Congress in 2010 and pull a Clinton. That way he can run to the center and blame everything on the extremist Congress. The worse thing that could happen to him would be for the Dems to lose big but not lose control. Then, he would be unable to do anything but would still be stuck with responsibility and not have a Republican Congress to blame everything on.
I am starting to think the best scenerio for the Republicans would be to fall like three votes short in the House and maybe pick up four or five seats in the Senate. This would scare the living shit out of the remaining Dems from red states but it would still leave Pelosi and company in power. It would be utter chaos with the Dem label on it.
The best thing for the country would be for every incumbant in both parties to lose. But, that isn't going to happen.
J sub D, I was talking about the spin in the next election cycle that could be used to paint the GOP as the bad guys. The dems are gonna need excuses why they and Obama were so damned ineffective.
Republicans still have to find someone to beat an incumbent president. They also have to put up a united front. Voters are a fickle crowd. It will be interesting.
Who's left in the bullpen? Jeff Flake and ???
J sub D, I was talking about the spin in the next election cycle that could be used to paint the GOP as the bad guys. The dems are gonna need excuses why they and Obama were so damned ineffective.
You don't think, "What'd you expect?
We're Democrats" will work?
Flake's in the bullpen? Why, that's almost within shouting range of encouraging! Almost!
Bipartisanship:
Dennis: (to Mac) There's nothing you can do about taxes.
Dee: Uh, you guys might wanna think about voting every once in a while.
Dennis: What has voting ever done?
Charlie: Wha-since-what is-why are you coming dow-voting?
Dennis: Who am I supposed to vote for? Am I supposed to vote for the-the Democrat who's going to blast me in the ass or the Republican who's blasting my ass?
Mac: You see, politics is all just one big ass-blast.
Who here had ever heard of Bill Clinton in 1989? Who had heard of Jimmy Carter in 1973? Or GHW Bush in 1977? People emerge. They always do.
The question is are the Republicans going to clean their own house and bring in someone totally unconnected with Washington or not? Because by 2012, people will want an outsider that is for sure.
My crystal balls have Haley Barbour in the future. and somebody out west, maybe a Kempthorne. I expect the GOP to go back to the hard right and kneel at the foot of the cross for their political salvation. I don't think it'll work, but they are gonna throw a hail jesus pass in 2012.
"My crystal balls have Haley Barbour in the future. and somebody out west, maybe a Kempthorne. I expect the GOP to go back to the hard right and kneel at the foot of the cross for their political salvation. I don't think it'll work, but they are gonna throw a hail jesus pass in 2012."
No one is going to run Haley Barour. You have to be kidding. And as far as a Jesus pass, we have a President right now who talks about being his brother's keeper and how he is God's partner passing healthcare reform. I would say the other side already connected on the Jesus pass.
The old saying, 'democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner' is a bit off base. Democracy is like two wolves fighting over the lamb for diner, bipartisanship on the other hand is when they come to terms on how to divvy up the chops.
Mark my words there elephant boy. Haley Barbour. and Jesus. in 2012.
Oh, and everybody knows that when it comes to rallying votes, the GOP is the jesus party.
i pick mark sanford.
"Mark my words there elephant boy. Haley Barbour. and Jesus. in 2012. "
I will take that bet. Dick Cheney is more likly to get the nomination. Seriously. One big terror attack and Cheney becomes the "stop fucking around and keep this from happening again" candidate.
Lewis Black:
Allow me to explain how our federal government works. To begin with, by the federal government I mean Democrats ad Republicans working together. And the only thing dumber than a Democrat and a Republican is when those pricks work together. You see, in our two-party system, the Democrats are the party of no ideas and the Republicans are the party of bad ideas. It usually goes something like this. A Replubican will stand up in Congress and say, "I've got a really bad idea." And a Democrat will immediately jump to his feet and declare, "And I'm gonna make it shittier."
John, that crossed my mind this morning when someone here pointed out his recent media presence increase.
I'll reserve judgement for the summer of 2012 and prey the mayans are right about the universe ending shortly afterward.
*pray
I get tired of the Republicans being tagged as the Jesus party. The Democrats are constantly invoking religion. The Democrats have major politicians who are ordained ministers. Ministers are overwelmingly liberal. The National Council of Churches is nothing but an arm of the DNC. Both parties use religion and invoke Jesus equally.
Note to self - Preview dammit.
"Since we're making predictions, Cheney will be dead from another myocardial infarction by 2012."
Maybe. But if 8 years as a powerful VP didn't kill him, it is doubtful four years of retirement will.
Funny you mention that. I was sitting here empty headed, and Biden dying from a massive heart attack crossed my mind.
I'll reserve judgement for the summer of 2012 and prey the mayans are right about the universe ending shortly afterward.
Personally, I love this fucked up planet. I only want the politicians to die en masse. When their common gene is found, we should immediately weaponize it.
Wow, Medicare keeps people alive even as old as bob dole? Geez, maybe it IS worth 5 trillion over 10 years!
Wow, Medicare keeps people alive even as old as bob dole? Geez, maybe it IS worth 5 trillion over 10 years!
Bob Dole on Medicare?
HaHaHaHaHaHaHa...
guy in the back row | August 31, 2009, 5:04pm | #
Wow, Medicare keeps people alive even as old as bob dole? Geez, maybe it IS worth 5 trillion over 10 years!
While serving in Italy, he was part of a mission that investigated an occult Nazi castle. The only one who came back 'alive' from that mission as well.
How 'bout Henry K still being alive and as ruthless as ever. That man is my inspiration!
J sub D, i remember a story from maybe 10 years ago about J.R. Simplot raising hell with Medicare for paying part of the bill for his hip replacement. (or some big surgery anyways) He was a billionaire that couldn't get away from medicare and he was greatly offended at the stupidity of the government for it.
And as far as a Jesus pass, we have a President right now who talks about being his brother's keeper and how he is God's partner passing healthcare reform.
Not to mention that, at Ted Kennedy's funeral, everyone got down on their knees and prayed for universal coverage to pass. Seriously.
The teachers unions nominated Bill Clinton in 1992. They're funding his re-election now. And they, his most reliable supporters, know he will maintain the status quo.
And I say this -- I say this not to the teachers, but to their unions. I say this, if education were a war, you would be losing it. If it were a business, you would be driving it into bankruptcy. If it were a patient, it would be dying.
And to the teachers union, I say, when I am president, I will disregard your political power for the sake of the parents, the children, the schools and the nation. I plan to enrich your vocabulary with those words you fear -- school choice and competition and opportunity scholarships.
All this for low and middle income families so that you will join the rest of us in accountability, while others compete with you for the commendable privilege of giving our children a real education.
There is no reason why those who live on any street in America should not have the same right as the person who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue -- the right to send your child to the school of your choice.
In bigger news: Bob Dole is still Alive! How does that happen? *flashbacks of Roll/Hemp GOP bumper stickers*
Jack Kemp was the best part of that ticket... but still not enough to make me vote for them.
J sub D, i remember a story from maybe 10 years ago about J.R. Simplot raising hell with Medicare for paying part of the bill for his hip replacement. (or some big surgery anyways) He was a billionaire that couldn't get away from medicare and he was greatly offended at the stupidity of the government for it.
I recall reading in one of George Gilder's books about Simplot having to spend time in prison during the FDR regime for the crime of, are you ready for this, profiteering!. He won a government contract to mass produce k rations for the troops for which he needed to build a second factory to service the order. However, the cartelized regulatory scheme would not permit it, and came down on him like a ton of bricks.
I have to add though, I tried double checking this, but the Wikipedia article on Simplot is weak, to say the least, and attempts to Google were not successful. At least not giving anything useful within the ten minute span I was willing to check.
FDR was a prick.
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