Conspiracy

More Scenes From the Health Care Debate Race War

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Scripps Howard columnist Ann McFeatters, "Lynch-Mob Mentality Stirs Health-Care Debate":

Americans are flocking to town-hall meetings, screaming and shouting down nonplussed legislators, brandishing guns and throwing around false rumors as if they were hand grenades. […]

Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing down costs and helping small businesses?

Syndicated columnist Gene Lyons, "The Lunatics Are No Longer on the Fringe":

It's not possible to reason with people peddling grotesque and preposterous lies, bargain with people who are screaming, or negotiate under threats of violence.

It's not a professional wrestling exhibition, it's our democracy. Persons whose behavior would get them thrown out of a Rolling Stones show should be removed by security. Period.

Media columnist Michael Wolff, "The Nutters Are Coming to Get You":

They've always been here. But the nutters are surfacing in a way and to a degree that is finally catching the agape attention of non-nutters. It is not only the ferocity of their anger that is surprising, but the focus of it: this birth certificate stuff, the death panel business, the tea bags, and the apparently heartfelt belief that the end of America is upon us. […]

This might also be called demographic rage. It isn't shared across the social and economic spectrum. It's limited to…well, the stupids.

Tides Foundation Chair Melissa Bradley, "Speaking Power to Truth":

As progressive ideas like green jobs become mainstream, the right is clearly threatened. Their falsehoods and perception warping is intensifying. So what do we do? Basking in our infamy can be fun, but it's time for the vast left wing conspiracy to link arms, step into our power and fight back. There's been a significant change in our ability to influence the public agenda, and just because we are in power, doesn't mean that our work hasn't diminished. In fact, we all need to pick it up several notches to reverse the erosion of rights that has gone on for the past 30 years.

Gawker's John Cook, "GOP: Pay No Attention to Our Crazy Supporters Who Want to Kill Obama":

These death threats aren't threats—they're challenges. They're attempts to inject into the public debate the sense that violence is a legitimate response to political defeat. As someone in the blogosphere whom we can't presently recall wrote yesterday, the appropriate response to a president who advocates rounding up the elderly and sending them before death panels is—if it seems like he's on the cusp of achieving that goal—to kill or rebel against him. And each publicized call for Obama's death adds to the public perception that we've reached a decision-point about whether it's time for killing. Every sign—even if the bearer is merely an angry loon who could never get close to Obama—is an inducement to someone who is willing to try. It's a message to fellow travelers, a signal that they are not alone in their rage, a promise of glory to come if they actually manage to get the job done. As we said before, there are always people who want to kill the president. The question is how many give it a shot. And the more of these signs there are in the background of Fox News' live report from some town hall in Missouri saying that someone should give it a shot, the more people actually will. And the more people that give it a shot, the more likely someone is to hit the jackpot.

And today's right-of-center commentator who concurs? David Frum, "The Reckless Right Courts Violence":

Nobody has been hurt so far. We can all hope that nobody will be. But firearms and politics never mix well. They mix especially badly with a third ingredient: the increasingly angry tone of incitement being heard from right-of-center broadcasters.

The Nazi comparisons from Rush Limbaugh; broadcaster Mark Levin asserting that President Obama is "literally at war with the American people"; former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin claiming that the president was planning "death panels" to extirpate the aged and disabled; the charges that the president is a fascist, a socialist, a Marxist, an illegitimate Kenyan fraud, that he "harbors a deep resentment of America," that he feels a "deep-seated hatred of white people," that his government is preparing concentration camps, that it is operating snitch lines, that it is planning to wipe away American liberties": All this hysterical and provocative talk invites, incites, and prepares a prefabricated justification for violence.

And indeed some conservative broadcasters are lovingly anticipating just such an outcome.

Plenty of hyperlinks in Frum's original. Yesterday's race war headlines here.

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162 responses to “More Scenes From the Health Care Debate Race War

  1. And today’s right-of-center commentator who concurs? David Frum,

    I’m not sure when David Frum stopped being right of center, but I’m pretty sure it was sometime last year at the latest.

    I love the smell of hysteria in the morning. Keep on demonizing, lefties. Everyone you demonize is someone you alienate.

  2. Exactly RC. They’re scared because people are seeing past the bullshit and they didn’t anticipate that. Whether or not these disgruntled people are basing their concerns on good or bad information, the left is having to go on a hard offensive.

  3. They have no argument, so they insult because they are scared.

    Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
    And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn’t go
    They ran so fast that the hounds couldn’t catch ’em
    On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.

  4. Ugh. Assuming other people’s views aren’t worth considering is a step towards assuming other people’s views shouldn’t be heard.

    We already saw this yesterday, with the woman who was horrified that people were “allowed” to get in the way of the Democrats’ agenda.

  5. In fact, we all need to pick it up several notches to reverse the erosion of rights that has gone on for the past 30 years.

    You can start with my property rights and my right to keep and bear arms. No? That’s not what you were thinking?

  6. Meh. The anti-Obama crowd is every bit as crazy as the anti-Bush crowd was. And that’s a whole lot o’ crazy.

  7. My, my. These delicate flowers should probably steer clear of 1760s and ’70s New England political propaganda. They would positively wither.

  8. In anticipation of another 500+ comment morass, i’m gonna go ahead and declare everyone in this thread a fascist.

  9. That’s a racist thing to say.

  10. I don’t support Obamacare in the least, but actually don’t think Frum is far off the mark. Limbaugh et al are clearly chumming the waters here.

  11. In anticipation of another 500+ comment morass, i’m gonna go ahead and declare everyone in this thread a fascist.

    Fucking Fascist.

  12. Pot/kettle, Zeb, you fascist.

  13. They’re proto-terrorists.

    “Brandishing guns”? I wish.

  14. It’s funny, from what I experienced the violence and extremism is coming from the SEIU and AFL-CIO union thugs who get a bus ride, a sandwich, and some cash to show up at these events. For a comparison: William Kostric was legally open carrying a pistol, everyone freaks out. Union chump kicks a guy in the balls and spits in another guy’s camera, that’s not news, just typical, everyday behavior.

    Exhibits A and B:
    Union thugs arrive on buses from Massachussetts
    Union thug spitting on a guy

  15. Tulpa:

    As much as I think Rush is a hack, and I couldn’t make it 20 pages into Levin’s book without throwing it away in disgust, stirring things up is good.

    It’s much more entertaining (and LONG overdue) watching the parasites in DC squirm.

  16. CoyoteBlue,

    You gotta understand, these guys are professional journalists. Definitions of words like “Brandishing ” are not their strong suit.

  17. It’s Bizarro Crazy Eddie politics:

    Their beliefs are so opposed to ours that they must be CRAZY!

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

  18. Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing down costs and helping small businesses?

    And theses people think I’m deluded?

  19. “I’m not really a fascist; but these boots make my calves look HUGE.”

  20. I’m not goose-stepping, I’m clogging w enthusiasm.

  21. You know what’s awesome? Being a fascist.

  22. To the left, for the past 8 years: as you sow so shall you reap.

  23. Warty | August 14, 2009, 10:32am | #
    You know what’s awesome? Being a fascist.

    What’s really awesome is how a) so many accusers can’t properly spell fascist and b) so many don’t have a clue what the word actually means.

  24. Obama’s Safety: Fear Grows for President as Hate Groups Thrive on Racial Backlash
    Violent Signs, Gun, Standoff Latest in Emerging Anger Towards the President

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8324481&page=1

    more msm frothing

  25. Proper spelling is fascist.

  26. Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing down costs and helping small businesses?

    OK, I must have missed something. Is there some sort of time portal that will soon close and prevent all future consideration of any health care reform forever? How come nobody told me about this before?

  27. so many don’t have a clue what the word actually means.

    Fascist.

  28. Frum is just being made so darn uncomfortable at DC cocktail parties by the unwashed Republican masses. Can’t they understand that they are putting him in a terribly uncomfortable position?

  29. Is there some sort of time portal that will soon close and prevent all future consideration of any health care reform forever? How come nobody told me about this before?

    Because they’ve got to get it now, while they still can. Once everybody gets all polarized and nutty about it, it can’t pass.

  30. Once everybody gets all polarized and nutty about it, it can’t pass.

    So you’re saying the window has closed already?

    Fascist.

  31. Hey, as a digression from the fascist wars Xeones keeps starting (prob’ly because he’s a fascist), what are the actual bill numbers for existing proposals?

  32. From what I’ve seen, it looks like the supporters have more of their S.A. reps involved that the opponents.

  33. Heh, that’s funny, all those protesting, taking more of our money and freedom to politicians who’ve made it clear they’re not listening, are radical right-wing militia types. I’m glad those journos are so adept at ignoring anything uncomfortable to their position. Wouldn’t want to tell anyone the truth. Course if they tried that, they wouldn’t have as much hard-hitting stuff to write. The whining of Liberal politicians about us bullying right wingers, and the baseless claims of right-wing violence fit the agenda so much better.

    Oh, and I haven’t seen anything right of center out of Frum in quite a while.

  34. Persons whose behavior would get them thrown out of a Rolling Stones show should be removed by security. Period.

    A lot of people in the “OMG 911 911 teh TERRORISM! AAAAAH, BOOGEYMAAAAAAN!” crowd are going to get their beloved USA PATRIOT ACT shoved up their asses by the new regime. This will surprise them.

    My shameful, vindictive glee as I watch will be boundless.

  35. Characterizing opponents of your policies as crazy is a time-honored tactic of both parties.

  36. My shameful, vindictive glee as I watch will be boundless.

    I’m experiencing a lot of schadenfreude lately. I don’t expect it to go away soon.

  37. The race card has lost it’s trump power with most people. The media, as usual is behind the curve.

    The question is how many give it a shot. And the more of these signs there are in the background of Fox News’ live report from some town hall in Missouri saying that someone should give it a shot, the more people actually will.

    Hey dipshit. The moron with the sign was over in Maryland. You know on the east coast with all you intellectual fucktards. Not in MO with the rednecks. Elitist fuckstick.

  38. I find it highly ironic that the asshole union thug in the video posted upthread is wearing a brown shirt.

  39. The Town Hall/Protestor Whining was the top story on every MSM outlet this morning. If this is the biggest, most critical issue that we have to deal with today then we Americans are blessed to no end.

  40. Even when David Frum was writing for the Globe and Mail in the mid nineties the guy was something of a squish, even by Canadian conservative standards.

  41. It’s not possible to reason with people peddling grotesque and preposterous lies…

    That is why people are shouting. Obama and his zombies are constantly lying. At a basic level, they claim that all these increases to the debt and deficit won’t lead to higher taxes. That is a lie and everyone in America can see it.

    You don’t reason with zombies and you don’t negotiate with zombies. There is only one thing you do with zombies.

    The more articles like the above that are published, the sooner that starts.

  42. You don’t reason with zombies and you don’t negotiate with zombies. There is only one thing you do with zombies.

    Dress them up, pretend they’re Scarlett Johansson, and jerk off while they remove their clothing?

  43. Perception is reality in american politics. I don’t know if health care reform is gonna pass but from where I sit, the msm is casting a very negative light on everyone in disagreement with the current administration.

    If reform passes and has negative long term consequences, it will be blamed on the republican boogity man. If it fails to pass, ditto.

    I realized yesterday that lefties are passive aggressive by nature. They have been feeding conservatives rope for a great long while. Now the right is building their own gallows.

  44. I’m heading to a town hall on Monday and need some short questions. Any ideas? Here’s one I thought of:

    In my 36 years, the government has been taking an ever-expanding role in our health care. That is the status quo. How is this proposal NOT the status quo?

  45. YOU SHOT MY TAMMY!

  46. So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it doesn’t take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot at the prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll.

  47. Mo, He is headed for Montana right now. A likely place for such an event, if you ask me. Lotsa nuts growin in that big sky country.

  48. Mo, the last thing we need is for the Postmodern Messiah to achieve eternal love via the martyr’s route.

  49. What should these protesters do….politely disagree? Just send a little e-mail to some bottomless congressional e-mail account? And if that doesn’t work, then what? Just shrug, give up, and pat themselves on the back for trying? What is the sound of dissent if no one can hear it?

    Sounds like these “journalists” need a huge refresher course on the First Amendment.

  50. brotherben, that would be a goddamn disaster. The last thing we need now for the Democrats is to give them a 9/11.

  51. Proper spelling is fascist.

    Well, at the risk of being labeled a fascist, I would say that is going too far.

    Proper *ettiquette*, perhaps.

  52. people are seeing past the bullshit

    And then offering up an even bigger pile of their own.

    Right to protest, blah blah blah. Does it not matter to any of you that they’re demonstrating a rather complete detachment from facts and reality?

    Libertarians for being misinformed and hysterical for freedom!

  53. It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll.

    They would just demonize more and radicalize more people. A rather large segment of the American population has been buying more and more guns and ammo since Obama was elected. Nearly all of these people are critical of Obama.

    The Left and their allies in the MSM keep vilifying anyone who isn’t on their knees for Obama. Not very bright to keep on antagonizing a large group of armed people.

  54. JB, let’s keep the “shoot the bastards” on the down-low.

  55. JB,

    can you say, “Martial Law?”

  56. Mo, the last thing we need is for the Postmodern Messiah to achieve eternal love via the martyr’s route…

    …without including Biden and Pelosi. Fixed, because that is much worse.

    Someone described Biden as Obama’s greatest insurance policy. I agree on that. As much as I hate Obama (and it’s up there), I find Biden and Pelosi to be much worse. Btw, does that make me racist against whitey?

  57. Characterizing opponents of your policies as crazy is a time-honored tactic of both parties.

    It worked pretty well for me.

  58. JB,

    It’s not a large group and it’s not growing. It’s just vocal, and has its very own mass media platform on FOX news. What it is is a fringe group whose main motivation is probably not a philosophical position on health care. They’re being agitated by anti-Obama propaganda whose goal is totally political.

  59. JB, let’s keep the “shoot the bastards” on the down-low.

    I didn’t say anything about shooting. I just don’t think it’s very bright to keep antagonizing a large group of people with weapons.

  60. And for me!

  61. I’m heading to a town hall on Monday and need some short questions. Any ideas?

    A few short questions come to mind:

    Why am I considered racist for disagreeing with the premise that adding more government involvement will improve health care?

    If the “government option” is going to be able to compete on its own against private insurers, without subsidy, why can’t you find venture capitalists to fund it, instead of adding billions more to the national debt?

    Won’t adding more mandatory benefit requirements just discourage small businesses from adding jobs, when unemployment is already approaching 10 percent?

    Which health care industry lobbyists have donated the most money in support of this plan?

    Why will this program not exceed its original budget and scope, as all other government interventions in medical care have done?

    Shouldn’t we wait until you’ve at least cut the budget deficit in half, as you promised during the campaign, before adding new spending programs? And when you say “cut in half”, do you mean after doubling it first, or 50 percent of the deficit in Bush’s last term?

  62. can you say, “Martial Law?”

    LOL. That wouldn’t radicalize anyone.

  63. The lefty protests under Bush were much worse. They just never got reported that way by a largely sympathetic MSM.

    “One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush’s assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.

    “BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE,” read the placard, which had an X over the word “ALIVE.”

    Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks. Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.

    Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her wrist.

    The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for Bush’s motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president’s moving limousine.”

  64. Right to protest, blah blah blah. Does it not matter to any of you that they’re demonstrating a rather complete detachment from facts and reality?

    I’m much more concerned with the detachment from reality being demonstrated by those in power than by people who are so disenfranchised that their only recourse is to wave signs in the street.

  65. Tony, you might want to actually go out and talk to humans instead of listening to the sock puppets in your head.

    All sorts of people I know and just randomly meet, many of whom aren’t even political, are very pissed off because they understand that Bush spent a lot of money and that Obama is spending even more. And every day Obama calls for spending more money. They understand this can’t continue, something politicians don’t seem to grasp.

  66. I just don’t think it’s very bright to keep antagonizing a large group of people with weapons.

    How are they being antagonized? By enacting a legislative agenda every Democrat campaigned on? So democracy means giving in to the most hysterical minority because they might shoot you if you do something they don’t like?

  67. “If reform passes and has negative long term consequences, it will be blamed on the republican boogity man”

    lol whut

  68. What it is is a fringe group

    If they’re fringe, libertarians must not exist at all.

  69. TallDave,

    It’s my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of which were the largest such events in the history of mankind, received rather scant coverage in general. Notably by FOX news, which pretty much totally ignored them (and demonized them), although recently for some reason they’ve come around to providing near constant coverage and support of citizens protesting.

  70. largest such events in the history of mankind

    rofl

  71. The lefty protests under Bush were much worse. They just never got reported that way by a largely sympathetic MSM.

    “One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush’s assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.

    “BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE,” read the placard, which had an X over the word “ALIVE.”

    Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks. Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.

    Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her wrist.

    The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for Bush’s motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president’s moving limousine.”

    Hypocrisy by the MSM?

    Not surprising.

  72. So democracy means giving in to the most hysterical minority

    I’ll let this one stand on its own. Fascist.

  73. “So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it doesn’t take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot at the prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll.”

    Maybe we’ll get lucky and a crazy Democrat makes a pre-emptive strike against Glenn Beck instead.

  74. anonymous, I was suggesting that the msm would spin it to blame republican additions to the bill for any bad results.

    Don’t counter with factual questions. To do so is to underestimate the willingness of voters to believe the pretty people on the teevee.

  75. Tony, calling people who oppose gigantic increases in the deficit and debt ‘Nazis’ and ‘evil-mongers’ and ‘rednecks’ and all the other garbage isn’t very bright when many of them are armed.

    It’s even less bright when those hurling the insults are doing so because their opponents won’t accept that 2+2=5. Rational people don’t want to be controlled by irrational people like that, and if you strike a rational man enough times, he is going to strike back.

  76. It’s my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of which were the largest such events in the history of mankind, received rather scant coverage in general.

    It must have been very scant. I don’t remember em.

  77. It sounds like the basic premise of Tony’s argument is “we won, you lost, so sit down and shut the hell up”.

    Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much different tune.

  78. To me it looks like the media is trying to get ahead of the curve on any possibility of an OK city type event. It’s like they are trying to set up an, “I told you so.” moment.

  79. Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much different tune.

    Yeah, “never waste a good crisis,” Venezuela style.

  80. So democracy means giving in to the most hysterical minority

    You might wanna check out the thread on Yale’s refusal to print the Mohammed cartoons for arguments on why giving in to fear is the right thing to do.

  81. Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much different tune.

    Yeah, “never waste a good crisis,” Venezuela style.

    Actually, I was just thinking of a different party being in power, with him being part of the “hysterical minority”. After all, the pendulum swings both ways.

  82. The left has truly jumped the shark on this one.

  83. After all, the pendulum swings both ways.

    I’m sure Congress will have something to say about that. Pendulums can’t be free to swing according to their conscience; they have to lend their energies to society at large. Research at Los Alamos suggests this swing can be harnessed to power police lasers stunning firearms users.

  84. Sooooo, some people scary conservatives get pissed off over talk about socialized medicine, start showing up at open meetings, use harsh language at the people threatening to socialize health care in the US and the left’s only response is to collectively wets its pants and start calling them names and questioning their mental health?

    Pussies.

    The right should protest things more often. This is far too entertaining. It’s like the 2000 election all over again.

  85. I’m much more concerned with the detachment from reality being demonstrated by those in power than by people who are so disenfranchised that their only recourse is to wave signs in the street.

    Yeah, I mean they’re so oppressed they have no other option but to retreat into the fantasies in their heads!

  86. Every time the subject of political violence comes up, I always think back to Matt Ruff:

    “It’s easy to renounce physical violence if you aren’t very good at it.”

    Is that why somebody with a gun freaks out the left so badly? Because they suspect that if lead starts flying, they’ll get the worst of it?

  87. who oppose gigantic increases in the deficit and debt

    So why can’t we have a calm, fact-based debate about whether the deficits are a bad thing or a necessary thing to fend off depression? These are quintessential low-information voters. Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to them by people with political motives.

  88. Tony, calling people who oppose gigantic increases in the deficit and debt ‘Nazis’ and ‘evil-mongers’ and ‘rednecks’ and all the other garbage isn’t very bright when many of them are armed.

    These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he’s much better armed than they are.

  89. These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he’s much better armed than they are.

    Congress isn’t.

  90. Congress isn’t.

    Yes it is. Since we’re throwing around threats of violence (over mere policy differences) here at this libertarian oasis, why aren’t the tea baggers afraid that the all-powerful tyranny that is the (Democratic-majority) government will go to extreme measures once they start shooting people? If rightwingers start becoming terrorists I’m sure they won’t object to some indefinite detention and torture.

  91. I refuse to believe anybody is that stupid. It’s either Radley doing an excellent poker face or the ghost of joe.

  92. As progressive ideas like green jobs become mainstream

    As the Easter Bunny and the economic recovery can tell you, becoming mainstream doesn’t mean you actually exist.

  93. Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to them by people with political motives.

    They again.

  94. These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he’s much better armed than they are.

    “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.”

  95. Nothing they say is factual…

    Obama raising the deficit and debt to unprecedented levels and saying he won’t raise taxes is factual?

    You and Obama are both liars.

  96. As the Easter Bunny and the economic recovery can tell you, becoming mainstream doesn’t mean you actually exist.

    Whoaaa, back the fuck up. Then who leaves all these fucking eggs and the basket of diabetes around the yard every year?

  97. JB,

    Actually no it’s not. The debt is at unprecedented levels, but Obama has never said he won’t raise any taxes. The healthcare bill being sold is supposed to be budget neutral.

    And I find the notion that the only thing these protesters care about is the deficit totally laughable. That’s a relatively wonky obsession to motivate such hysteria and Hitler comparisons.

  98. Yes it is. Since we’re throwing around threats of violence (over mere policy differences) here at this libertarian oasis, why aren’t the tea baggers afraid that the all-powerful tyranny that is the (Democratic-majority) government will go to extreme measures once they start shooting people? If rightwingers start becoming terrorists I’m sure they won’t object to some indefinite detention and torture.

    Honest answer? Those that are serious about the threats of political violence (as opposed to joking about it to tweak the lefty trolls) firmly believe they will not be taken alive. The mentality is they will die with gun in hand, shooting agents of the state. Whether or not they have the strength of will to follow though on that remains to be seen, and hopefully I won’t see it in my lifetime.

  99. The healthcare bill being sold is supposed to be budget neutral.

    You believe that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????

    Then what is this “$1 trillion” I keep hearing about?

    Anyone who believes this healthcare bill will be budget neutral is not a human being in my book.

  100. Those that are serious about the threats of political violence (as opposed to joking about it to tweak the lefty trolls)

    I’m neither at this moment, but I am predicting violence if the Left and the MSM keep pushing. Socialists have plenty of countries to choose from. Freedom-loving Americans are backed into a corner right now with nowhere to go.

  101. “Warty | August 14, 2009, 10:32am | #

    You know what’s awesome? Being a fascist.”

    My you live long and well, comrade.

  102. JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the “left.” And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely disintegrate.

  103. “Dress them up, pretend they’re Scarlett Johansson”

    I loved her in Manny and Lo. Even as a child, you could tell she was gonna be hot. Same as Natalie Wood.

  104. DO NOT CONVERSE WITH TONY. IT WILL MAKE YOU STERILE.

    THAT IS ALL.

  105. Actually no it’s not. The debt is at unprecedented levels, but Obama has never said he won’t raise any taxes. The healthcare bill being sold is supposed to be budget neutral.

    Semantic arguments are pretty cute and all, right up until the point that they fall apart because people see the whole picture.

    Then they just get really pissed, and are not going to listen to you, no matter how “reasonable” you try to sound while forcing your beliefs on them.

    The left’s words are generally self-fellating bullshit, but their actions are truly reprehensible.

  106. Didn’t want kids, anyway.

  107. Rush Limbaugh was playing a clip from ABC news on his show where they were trying to gin up a scare about “right wing hate groups”.

    As usual they trotted out the Sothern Poverty Law Center as the “authority” on the subject.

    And of course the SPLC duitiflly served up exactly what the MSM lefites wanted to hear (that is, after all, it’s business model and the only reason it exists), yapping the usual hysterical crap they’ve been spouting for decades.

  108. Are we going to get one of these everyday? Are John and jb ever in the same place at the same time? Those screaming freedom lovers have no clue what they are talking about. Love their timing though

  109. “So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it doesn’t take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot at the prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll.”

    They got decades out of JFK, another unqualified and celebrity President who was circling the drain, being turned into a romantic martyr.

  110. It’s my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of which were the largest such events in the history of mankind, received rather scant coverage in general.

    Oh please. Even the tiny antiwar protests got coverage. Cindy Sheehan was an MSM celebrity for hanging out with 15 people outside Bush’s ranch.

    It was the violence in protests like Seattle that didn’t get mentioned.

  111. One of the problems there, though, is that the successor’s someone who would have a hard time taking advantage of it from the Oval office. Even democrats have been scoffing at Biden, as a way to avoid criticizing the chicken-hawk in chief* personally.

    Disclaimer: *Using the charge chicken-hawk to discredit political ideas is a logical fallacy, but it’s too juicy rubbing in the cognitive dissonance.

  112. oh no not this again,

    I see you finally finished dry-humping your dog.

  113. Didn’t the lefty Msm demonize bushs critics. You know they did, why are people surprised they are doing it for this one?

  114. Hey jb, nice to finally see you bring honest with yourself about liking black cock

  115. What’s really awesome is how a) so many accusers can’t properly spell fascist and b) so many don’t have a clue what the word actually means.

    “Fascist” has had the same, simple meaning since sometime in the fifties: “Anyone who disagrees with me.”

  116. JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the “left.” And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely disintegrate.

    Keep dreaming ‘budget neutral’ sock-puppet. After that laugh, I don’t think I will bother engaging with you any more. It’s pointless talking to zombies who actually think the healthcare bill will be budget neutral.

  117. oh no, I post under ‘JB’ 99.9% of the time and the few times I don’t it is for obvious comedic effect (once or twice under ‘Obama’ or something similar).

    ‘Bigg Blakk Dikk’ is actually a commenter here and I have a feeling you are jealous.

  118. These are quintessential low-information voters. Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to them by people with political motives.

    That is really fucking rich.

    …really…fucking…rich…

    THAT IS ALL.

  119. Lets not forget who started the shooting last time there were high profile right wing nut job confrontations with the federal government.

    It’s ok Lon. Killing unarmed citizens mothers is alright as long as you are following orders.

  120. The low information comment is pretty funny. I run into what I consider low information voters all the time on college campuses. Just because you know a little or a lot about one side does not mean you are a well informed voter.

  121. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  122. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  123. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  124. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  125. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  126. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  127. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  128. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  129. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  130. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  131. I am Bigg Blakk Dikk

  132. I just couldn’t help myself. Apologies to anyone offended by the use of their handle.

  133. Didn’t the lefty Msm demonize bushs critics. You know they did, why are people surprised they are doing it for this one?

    They demonized Iraq war critics initially, then lionized them once mainstream Democrats came around. The media isn’t biased left as much as biased towards whatever Serious People (ie the Democratic establishment) are pushing at the time.

  134. MattXIV, I think the msm is pushing what they percieve will sell the most tickets. In american politics, its the bastard demon spawn of Survivor and American Idol.

  135. WTF?

  136. Watch Spartacus

  137. Note: The Target-in-Chief will be down the road a piece this afternoon. I hope he stays the fuck away from here.

    I can’t wait for the stories about how the President’s little Yellowstone visitation cause a monumental clusterfuck for all the little people. Maybe they’ll lock down Old Faithful for him.

  138. Let’s see, forty-plus years of liberals scaring senior citizens that the Republicans were going to take away their SS and Medicare versus one month of similar scare tactics from the conservatives.

    Yes, both sides are equally guilty of using senior citizens.

  139. “WTF?”

    Sorry, Bigg. I simply couldn’t resist an opportunity to mock oh no. Nothing worse than a boorish prig.

  140. I am Old Italian Guy!

  141. I have a co-worker and good friend (even after we talk politics) who walked precincts for Obama and supports him 100%. She’s very grounded and well-informed, and can listen to the other side.

    She’s confided several times that she feels that race relations are taking a turn for the worse since Pres. Obama took office.

    I agree with her, I just don’t have the heart to suggest that, just maybe, the reflexive branding of Pres. Obama’s opponents as “racist” may have something to do with it.

  142. just maybe, the reflexive branding of Pres. Obama’s opponents as “racist” may have something to do with it.

    Or maybe the racists in this country are upset about having a black president.

    Besides, rightwingers toss out the racism accusation plenty, but only at minorities.

  143. My father-in-law thinks Janet Napolitano was right-on in profiling bible-thumpers, low-taxers, anti-abortionists, returning veterans, and mom-n-pop tea-partygoers as “extremists” worthy of investigating.

    I point out to him that most of the, you know, ACTUAL violence (Seattle WTO, Hummer dealerships, power transmission lines, disruptions of Republican conventions, New Black Panther Poll-watchers, cars w/American Flags/Support the Troops/Bush-Cheney stickers, and so on) are perpetrated by his side of the argument.

    Pop seems caught in the old “Fascism is always descending on America, but always landing in Europe” paradox.

  144. Tony:

    When you lot can come up with something better than “Socialism in the new N-word” then maybe you’ll have an inkling of the beginning of a point.

  145. We’ve seen this movie before, during the Clinton years when the left started to identify boogeymen like militias and threats to the government, trying to distort and distract from his sexual antics, as well as failures to lead.

    They are really getting hysterical. There are no mainstream threats against BHO. What citizen in their right mind would want Biden in office. We only want to defeat the policies of this current government. The left knows that the vast majority of citizens do not want to turn over their private lives to the state. They can’t defend their plan so they throw out hyperbolic nonsense. Typical.

  146. Shut the fucking goddamn up, Tony.

  147. furious, I felt as though I was pretty knowledgable when I cast my vote for Obama/Biden. I agreed with a lot of his grandiose plans. That said, I am finding myself a little more uncomfortable every day with his tactics and his backpeddling. I don’t know if race relations are getting worse, but I see a polarization in political camps that is getting a bit alarming.

  148. Besides, rightwingers toss out the racism accusation plenty, but only at minorities.

    Besides, minorities toss out the racism accusation plenty, but only at rightwingers.

  149. Brotherben:

    Sorry, brother, your fishy wavering loyalties just earned yourself a mention to the Whitehouse.gov narc line. ‘flag@whitehouse.gov’

    You’re in good company, though, some wag reported the Director fo the SBO for his “fishy” scoring of Obamacare’s fiscal impact.

  150. furious,

    If the ‘socialism’ accusation isn’t just racism disguised, then at the very least it’s ignorance on display. Obama is no more socialist than his predecessors by any consistent definition of the word.

  151. Tony,

    Sorry, you’ll have to build a bigger strawman than that, and get another box of matches.

    There’s plenty of ignorance on display at all four poles of the compass when it comes to sticking a label in what Obama and Congress are doing, and while I don’t think that calling Obama’s agenda ‘socialism’ (yet), I think it fits better than calling the opposition of the public to his agenda ‘racist’. Or even of calling Bush’s administration ‘fascist’, and not Obama’s.

  152. furious, sending accusatory e-mails to my benefactor may become troublesome for you my friend.

  153. If President Obama is in danger from anybody, it’ll be from some lefty nutball furious because Hopenchangistan didn’t happen yesterday like the Prez said it would. As for all the outrage over a bunch of pensioners and flyover voters protesting the fact that our “leaders” aren’t even bothering to read legislation before they vote on it, you people have short, extremely selective, memories. I’ve yet to see any of these town hall protestors strip naked, or throw themselves in front of a truck, or bust out the glass fronts of stores.

  154. Spartacus | August 14, 2009, 10:43am | #

    “OK, I must have missed something. Is there some sort of time portal that will soon close and prevent all future consideration of any health care reform forever? How come nobody told me about this before?”

    That’s the talking point. None of this resistance would even be here if the Dems hadn’t gone down the forced equality road with the public option and heavy regulation of private insurance. They, easily, could have pushed through coverage for those falling between the cracks of existing programs…..

  155. Besides, why bother with such a messy business as assassination when we can just vote the dundercrats in Congress out of power in 2010? Why, President Obama could stay for a second term if he wanted to. Just so long as he can’t enact any of his highly dubious agenda.

  156. None of this resistance would even be here if…

    Bullshit. The resistance is against a bill that doesn’t exist yet and which will certainly not contain any of the provisions they are protesting about.

    It’s a watered-down, industry-coddling tweak that will not affect a single one of those protesters’ lives negatively. They are protesting because their guys aren’t in power anymore, and rather than remembering that sometimes that happens in a democracy, they are ranting like lunatics and tacitly advocating militant overthrow like the ignorant crybabies they are.

  157. Perhaps Welch could comment on what role Reason and their friends have played in these issues.

    For instance, many of these reports originate with the SPLC, and Reason has linked approvingly to that group at least twice (including recently).

    And, just this week, the CATO Institute is promoting amnesty (and being deceptive about it). Amnesty would give even more power to the far-left and racial power groups, increasing their ability to scream about “hate”.

    I don’t think Reason’s hands are exactly clean in this matter.

  158. Also: guess which Reason Contributing Editor was one of the sources for the DHS’s rightwing extremists report, right alongside those who scream “hate!”

  159. Or maybe the racists in this country are upset about having a black president.

    The only color that upsets me is red and the sundry hues thereof. Hence my alarm at Obama. If that upsets you, sorry.

    Guys waving signs threatening the President – no matter who (s)he may be – get no sympathy from me when the Secret Service pulls up to their houses, but I resent being lumped into their pathology.

  160. JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the “left.” And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely disintegrate.

    So when protesters used violence to shut down Tom Tancredo’s speech at UNC, the pro-illegal alien movement completely disintegrated?

  161. what’s really crazy is that they are bending themselves into pretzels to defend a health care bill that DOESN’T EVEN EXIST !! there are at least five different versions being bounced back and forth between committees..and barack, as eager as he is to ram ANYthing through, hasn’t actually signed off on any of them. yet the apologist barackies are foaming at the mouth at the ‘racist loons’ who have serious questions and mis-givings.
    welcome to bizarro-obamaland !

  162. The only people fomenting violence and threatening the well-being of others are Zer0bambi’s SEIU and ACORN thugs, bused in to Town Hall meetings to make trouble for chimps like you to screech about.

    These meetings are otherwise populated by legitimate, justifiably frustrated voters showing up to let their elected representatives know that, finally, they are paying attention, and aren’t about to sit still for a Federal Government takeover of every aspect of our lives.

    Keep insulting and micharacterizing us. You only marginalize yourselves with this transparent scam.

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