Step One: Accept the Surveillance State. Step Two: Profit!

The Washington Post has a fun piece on an entrepreneur who's capitalizing on the D.C.-area's proliferation of speed cameras:

The system, known as PhantomAlert, feeds the locations of speed cameras and red-light cameras into standard Global Positioning System devices and prompts the devices to warn drivers when they are near one. PhantomAlert has subscribers throughout the nation, including more than 2,000 in the Washington region, said the company's owner, District resident Joseph Scott.

Scott said he expects that number to rise because of a new Maryland law that permits cameras, now allowed only in Montgomery, to be installed in work zones and near schools throughout the state. "It's going to be very good for us," he said.

Scott correctly points out that if government officials are serious when they say speed cameras are about safety, not revenue, they should have no objections to his business. It does after all get motorists to slow down in areas where officials say speed cameras are needed to slow motorists down in the interest of public safety.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Virginia, the only state where radar detectors are illegal. In fact, it's illegal to even have one in your car. Scott's system isn't technically a radar detector, but it serves the same purpose. 

Comments

[John Thacker]

Scott correctly points out that if government officials are serious when they say speed cameras are about safety, not revenue, they should have no objections to his business. It does after all get motorists to slow down in areas where officials say speed cameras are needed to slow motorists down in the interest of public safety.

I believe that they'd argue that they want motorists to slow down to the speed limit even in areas where they haven't put the cameras.

[dpsc]

Hmm- I think red light cameras are a really bad idea, and I have little doubt that they are primarily meant to raise money, but I'm not sure that this follows. You could make the argument (and I'm sure this argument will be made) that if people aren't sure where the red light cameras are it will have a deterrent effect at all red lights. This argument actually makes a fair bit of sense in terms of radar detectors, IMHO, but not quite as much when it comes to red light cameras.

[Gene Callahan]

"Scott correctly points out that if government officials are serious when they say speed cameras are about safety, not revenue, they should have no objections to his business. It does after all get motorists to slow down in areas where officials say speed cameras are needed to slow motorists down in the interest of public safety."

And a device that alerts burglars to police cruisers are should be just as acceptable!

[Joe_D]

This is a very good idea, and probably impossible to stop without, say, equipping *all* lights with cameras or shifting the locations often. It's just a slightly modified map inside your GPS (with little big brother icons, I presume), and I don't think cops will be competent to determine if you have an "illegal" map (or the wily driver could pop in a "legal" memory card when pulled over).

Better than this would be an automated system for dodging the system... any ideas?

[TickleStick]

"You could make the argument (and I'm sure this argument will be made) that if people aren't sure where the red light cameras are it will have a deterrent effect at all red lights"

I recall that scene from "The Lives of Others"

[Tomcat1066]

The purpose of these cameras is to deter the speeding after all, so no...there shouldn't be an issue. Trust me, in many places that use these cameras, most folks know where they're at anyways. These things primarily trap out of town people who aren't as familiar with where the traps are already.

They say it's about safety, but it never has been. It's like seat belt laws. Georgia allows light truck drivers to go without seat belts, and the General Assembly is trying to change it? Why? The Federal highway funds we're losing out on.

[VM]

cool idea!

hier is what the EU is wanting to do in a similar vein.

(h/t Absurd EU)

[Balloon Maker]

In Arizona, there are big ass signs on the highway warning you that there's a camera a half mile ahead. I guess this isn't the case everywhere?

[TickleStick]

"hier is what the EU is wanting to do in a similar vein."

Does the EU have a bail-out plan for the speed camera industry?

[P Brooks]

if government officials are serious when they say speed cameras are about safety, not revenue

*outright, prolonged laughter*

[Solanum]

And a device that alerts burglars to police cruisers are should be just as acceptable!

Or a device that alerts ex-Nazis to the presence of Mossad agents!

/thread godwinned

[Mike M.]

In Arizona, there are big ass signs on the highway warning you that there's a camera a half mile ahead. I guess this isn't the case everywhere?

In Virginia we have no speed cameras, and there has to be a clearly visible sign posted within 500 feet of a red light camera, so there's no need for this device here... yet.

[R C Dean]

And a device that alerts burglars to police cruisers are should be just as acceptable!

Why not? The presence of police cruisers isn't exactly a secret. We allow police band radios, after all, which would give the burglars as much or more notice that a cruiser had been dispatched.

I believe that they'd argue that they want motorists to slow down to the speed limit even in areas where they haven't put the cameras.

I'm not sure how that's an argument against a system that nonetheless encourages people to slow down where cameras are installed.

You could make the argument (and I'm sure this argument will be made) that if people aren't sure where the red light cameras are it will have a deterrent effect at all red lights.

That's their best argument. Expect them to simultaneously argue against concealed carry laws which have the same justification.

[I love Big Bro]

Illegal maps?

[Pageant Police]

QUICK! Get Miss Teen USA - South Carolina, she can decipher if the maps are illegal!

[jac]

This kind of thing has been available for free for a long time now. at poi-factory.com

[B.P.]

"...because of a new Maryland law that permits cameras, now allowed only in Montgomery, to be installed in work zones and near schools throughout the state."

And by "near schools" they mean everywhere except for that place under the bridge where all of the registered sex offenders live.

[Silentz]

Hell, when Obama gets his GPS "pay as you go" mileage tax, why not just allow the GPS determine the speed you're traveling, cross reference that with a speed limit database, and simply mail you a ticket every time you exceed said limit. I mean heck, my iPhone GPS app will determine speed as long as I'm moving faster than 3mph.

Problem solved. Now where's my cabinet post?

[Atanarjuat]

So now there is a company who has a financial incentive to lobby for more red light cameras.

[Mike M.]

So now there is a company who has a financial incentive to lobby for more red light cameras.

There has been right from the beginning. I believe that most of the red light cameras are manufactured and maintained by Lockheed Martin.

[CoyoteBlue]

VM, of course the euros need to find a more survivable method. See here for how some citizens of euroland are responding to these so-called deterents. [hehe]

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

[creech]

Why are we even permitted to drive without a government agent in the car? God knows what kind of activity might be going on as we cruise down I-95 at 70mph: Eating an artery-clogging triple cheeseburger, getting a bj from someone who might not be married to us (or of a different sex), talking on cell phone, arguing with kids in back seat, reading Atlas Shrugged propped up on the steering wheel, giving high fives to other motorists with Ron Paul bumperstickers?

[Tulpa]

I'm not sure how that's an argument against a system that nonetheless encourages people to slow down where cameras are installed.

It also encourages them to speed where there are no cameras installed. Those who don't speed anywhere -- ie, actually follow the law -- would have no use for these devices.

[R C Dean]

It also encourages them to speed where there are no cameras installed.

I don't think it "encourages" anyone to speed. Your motivation to speed pre-exists, this merely tells you where it is more dangerous to do that which you are predisposed to do.

Would you say that the states that post signs warning of speed/red light cameras are encouraging people to speed elsewhere?

[Zeb]

How do they know who to ticket when the camera catches a car speeding or running a red light? Many cars are driven by different people at different times. As I understand it (never having received a ticket myself) tickets are issued to the driver, not the car or the car's owner.

[The Angry Optimist]

Zeb - it's the same logic as parking tickets. If an LEO were to actually pull you over for running a red, that's a moving violation and points on your license. OTOH, the automated ticketing is a fine that doesn't carry that grave a penalty.

[phalkor]

when on an interstate if I see a sign that says "speed limit enforced by aircraft" I usually take it as a dare to go as fast as I possibly can. As I fly 120mph down the open highway I flip major birdage to the sky as if to say "fuck your imaginary aircraft!"

then when I get to the sections where I know state troopers lurk I cruise at a sedate 65mph while the jackass passing me doing 85 gets a rearview mirror full of fun flashing lights.

these maps sound awesome, interesting, and useful. few things give me such a kick as breaking minor laws with impunity.

[TrickyVic]

The only thing that has encouraged me to speed in everyone passing me like I'm granny.

People haul ass on the NJ turnpike.

[Tulpa]

Would you say that the states that post signs warning of speed/red light cameras are encouraging people to speed elsewhere?

*sigh* If you know that every camera location has such a sign posted, then yes. Because if there is no sign you know there is no camera and you're much less likely to be ticketed for speeding.

It's not rocket science. Yes, people want to speed...and the point of having cameras in unknown places is to make it a risky proposition to do so even when you don't see a police car nearby. Those incentives disappear when people know where there are cameras -- and more importantly, where there are NO cameras.

[cbmclean]

If I could be sure that speed limits were reasonably determined, I would have absolutely no sympathy for speeders. Driving faster than is safe raises the probability of one accidentally infringing on other's rights (crashing into them or their property). The only question is: How fast is too fast. That's not an easy question. Theoretically, if cars never exceeded 10 mph, the roads would be dramatically safer, for example.

[Tulpa]

On expressways and rural highways, that is indeed a difficult question. Not on most roads, though.

Regarding the 10mph example, you have to balance the need to actually use the road to achieve faster travel and the need to prevent collisions and hit pedestrians.

[Ebeneezer Scrooge]

Better than this would be an automated system for dodging the system... any ideas?

It wouldn't be hard to do. Just fly a little fleet of UAVs around with cameras, watching where they're working. When you see them put up a new one it goes into your data base, which gets beamed out to your paying customers.

But with most states requiring warning signs, it seems nearly a moot point.

[TrickyVic]

It won't be long before the speed limit sign sends a signal to your car and limits your top speed.

[Isaac Bartram]

If I could be sure that speed limits were reasonably determined, I would have absolutely no sympathy for speeders.

Actually speed limits are based on the design speed of the facility in question. They are usually set at five to ten MPH less.

Design criteria for various speed have bben determined through a lot of hard work by all highway engineers over the world. And the people who designed the roads you use have applied them.

They include thingd like whether there is enough resistance to friction either in braking or turning. Is there enough sght distance for stopping or passing. To name a few.

Yes, sometimes politicians irresponsibly mess with speed limits, but sometimes congestion takes a hand and a road that is otherwise suitable for a speed guets downgraded because its design speed is not appropriate at the level of congestion on it.

And so on.

However, in the end design speed are based on a sort of lowest common denominator sort of thing.

70 to 80 percent of motorists will find they can handle any given piece of roadway with ease at ten, twenty or even thirty mph over design speed. Ever take that freeway ramp curve with the advisory 35MPH sign at 60.

But we don't design for the best drivers. We have to design for the worst.

[Isaac Bartram]

"all highway engineers over the world" should of course read "highway engineers all over the world".

Me no type so good.