Lindsey Graham: "I am not a libertarian!"

Watch the South Carolina senator and John McCain BFF rant against Ron Paul and the libertoids at the recent South Carolina GOP convention, claiming (accurately, one supposes) that "we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Link via Wonkette.

Comments

[John McCain]

Yeah, and fuck the Constitution!

[Cal Lipigian]

"we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Fixed.

[kinnath]

There was a brief time when the Representative from SC seemed like a bright and reasonable dude. Apparently those features were excised when he joined the Senate.

[T]

Cue up my complete and utter lack of surprise. I should email my RLC friends and ask how that's working out for them these days.

[Frank]

"We're gonna go over there and fight them over there so they don't come over here..."

Holy Shit.
I give up.

[Gabe]

Actually...

"we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Fixed.

[J sub D]

"we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Agreed. The GOP needs to double down with the religious right. It's been working out so well, why change?

[Episiarch]

How the fuck did libertarians become the boogeyman to both sides all of a sudden? What asshole genius pulled off that slight of hand?

"And then, while they sat helplessly around the campfire...a demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutant snuck up and..."

[Pro Libertate]

T,

Not very well. In Florida, the state leaders of the party have tried to purge the RLC to some degree. How full of stupid is that?

[Pro Libertate]

Episiarch,

"You libertarians had your chance from 2001-2006."

"Damned libertarian RINOs voted for Obama."

See how this works?

[JW Gacy]

Epi, I don't want to go off on a whole nother tangent, but it's actually "sleight" of hand.

[John Thacker]

J sub D--

Of course, Lindsey Graham is no friend of the religious right either. Jim DeMint is more of a friend to the religious right than Graham-- just like Ron Paul is more of a religious rightist as well.

For whatever reason, hardcore libertarian views on economics are positively correlated with religious conservative views among politicians who actually win elections, if not necessarily among actual voters.

I'm not going to give this party over to people who can't win.

Um ...

[John Thacker]

How the fuck did libertarians become the boogeyman to both sides all of a sudden? What asshole genius pulled off that slight of hand?

It starts with libertarianism unfortunately not being nearly as popular as I'd like it to be. Even people who claim rhetorically to favor libertarianism make exceptions for the current crisis-o'-the-day, so that government is always expanding. Applies to voters as much as politicians. The American people get what they want.

[Episiarch]

Epi, I don't want to go off on a whole nother tangent, but it's actually "sleight" of hand.

ARRGGHHH...I never make mistakes like that. Thanks.

See how this works?

ProL, it's just that they actually seem to believe that libertarians are their boogeyman, beyond just saying it. It's nuts.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, I understand that some libertarians saddled our government with that stupid, overly restrictive Constitution.

[Lamar]

If they aren't going to build the party on libartarian ideals, then what's left? Religious ideals? Liberal ideals? More war? Seriously, if you take out libertarian ideals, what's left? Sarah Palin?

[John Thacker]

Remember that Lindsey Graham is hated by the paleocons for not being that social conservative and National Review for questioning war tactics, etc.

Jim DeMint, OTOH, who does think that the prescription drug benefit is the root of the Republican Party's problems, is also one of the strongest supporters of allowing school prayer, etc.

Republicans who are against the religious right are NOT, in general, libertarian on other issues. For some reason, the issues are correlated more than one might expect. (Huckabee's an outlier who's more like a conservative Democrat.)

[Astrid]

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given this is the guy who replaced Strom Thurmond.

[John Thacker]

Seriously, if you take out libertarian ideals, what's left? Sarah Palin?

Sarah Palin's governance in Alaska is not that anti-libertarian. She certainly hasn't concentrated on social issues at all, contrary to the insane speculation of both supporters and opponents nationally.

The correct name you're searching for for a disaster would be Huckabee. Or perhaps someone who's just a "competence and corporatism" type, like the feeling I (perhaps improperly) always get from Romney.

[The Angry Optimist]

Who cares? We didn't want you anyway, Lindsey Graham.

This highlights one of my main beefs with the C4L: hooking us up with the GOP. The GOP ran around on me enough for the past 10 years or so, and I don't go back to cheating partners.

[Pro Libertate]

Lamar,

I hate to say this, but they only have to run on one thing--not being the Democrats. Just like the Democrats won last time around on not being Republicans. Only Democrats and hand-wringing GOPers who don't get the election cycle think we've made some popular leap to neo-socialism.

The LP, of course, runs on not being the Democrats or the Republicans. That's not permitted.

[The Angry Optimist]

Oh, I really don't get a damn how Sarah Palin *actually* is or whatever...she demonstrated that she's dumb as hell, so whatever.

[R C Dean]

How the fuck did libertarians become the boogeyman to both sides all of a sudden?

Well, since they agree on their basic approach to governance, they can't very well attack each other on issues of substance. Because its the nature of politics to need someone to attack, they need to pick an outsider group of some kind, ideally a group that's weak and powerless, without friends in the legacy media. Ergo, libertarians.

[John Thacker]

Oh, I really don't get a damn how Sarah Palin *actually* is or whatever...she demonstrated that she's dumb as hell, so whatever.

Her supporters and opponents did, but I don't think she demonstrated that she was dumb as hell, but again whatever, there are other politicians.

But Lindsey Graham is one of those "moderates" that the conservatives, from paleocon to National Review to libertarian conservatives don't like.

Moderate doesn't mean libertarian any more than Specter is libertarian.

[Bingo]

I refreshed and Pro-L beat me to it. The GOP is going to go back to their roots of being the Not-Democrats. Which, while disgusting an generally unprincipled, may actually win them an election if the donkeys continue to not really impress anyone (aside from the O-bots).

[Pro Libertate]

I suspect that the GOP and Democrats will merge into the Govermentfuckyeah Party, and will, as their first combined act, round up the libertarians and put them in reeducation camps.

[John Thacker]

A less religious right Republican party would also, without a doubt, be a less libertarian Republican party at the same time. It seems baffling but it's true, largely because there aren't enough libertarians.

Many of the idiots who ensured that the GOP was going to pass prescriptions drug benefits, etc. are the least socially conservative politicians in the GOP as well. The brave opponents, whether Coburn, DeMint, or Ron Paul, are also some of the most socially conservative in the caucus. Bizarre but true.

[JB]

What's the difference between Lindsey Graham and a Democrat?

Not much at all.

[P Brooks]

Lindsey Graham: "I am not a libertarian!"

I never thought you were.

[John Thacker]

Note that at the same speech, "But U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, who followed Graham, said he'd rather have 30 senators who stand on principle than 60 who have none."

The American Spectator hates Lindsey Graham. National Review hates Lindsey Graham. The American Conservative hates him. The Weekly Standard may tolerate him, I'm not sure.

He's as hated among all flavors of the Right as libertarianism is in the mainstream.

Libertarians cheer when "moderates" like Lindsey Graham talk about the need not to stand on principle, thinking that he's talking about the Religious Right. He is, but he's also talking about libertarianism as well.

[Lamar]

"I hate to say this, but they only have to run on one thing--not being the Democrats."

While I agree with the assessment, I think it is a terrible strategy. The Democrats only have to survive this current recession and the business cycle will keep them in power for another 10 years. I don't see any social issues trumping the economy any time soon.

[Warty]

"we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Fixed some more.

[Ska]

"And then, while they sat helplessly around the campfire...a demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutant snuck up and..."

What is that, Left 4 Dead 2? When does that come out?

[Blue]

GOLDSTEIN!!!!!!

[Pro Libertate]

Lamar,

Nah, they're already fucking up enough to jeopardize 2010.

[Xeones]

Yo, fuck Lindsey Graham. "Lindsey" is a girl's name, dude.

[Bingo]

we're not gonna build this party[!!] around libertarian ideas.

Woo yeah go Lindsey!

[Lost_In_Translation]

So we've a choice between socially liberal, economically liberal republicrats and socially conservative, economically conservative religious righticans...and whoever doesn't fall completely in either camp gets to be a "war now, war forever" neo-con. Libertarians, security will escort you out...

[Episiarch]

What is that, Left 4 Dead 2? When does that come out?

Same time as Duke Nukem Forever.

[hmm]

I really hope the LP manages to capitalize on this cluster fuck situation. I fear they won't and the slow tedious move towards more people in the party will continue at the same pace. The LP just isn't as good at the political game, the thing many detest.

That's gonna get some flames for sure, but wasn't intended to be flame bait or troll. Just an observation.

[Bingo]

Hey, they just released the SDK, maybe someone (with a lot more motivation and talent than I have) can create a mod where you valiantly defend your group of principled statists against the onslaught of libertarian hordes, with the free markets and sound money and individual responsibility before they make granny starve and sell your child into slave labor to a corporation (that runs everything).

[oat willie]

I didn't know that the Right Wing of the Government Party had some kind of Libertarian Renaissance during the last 8 years. 2 wars, corporate bailouts, 700 billion bank bailouts...I didn't know these things were Libertarian.

[John C. Randolph]

Lindsey Graham voted for the bailouts. That asshole shouldn't even be showing his face in public, much less presuming to talk about how to rebuild the Republican party.

-jcr

[oat willie]

$700 billion, I know it's more than that

[John C. Randolph]

I really hope the LP manages to capitalize on this cluster fuck situation.

Oh, didn't you hear? The LP nominated a Name Brand Politician instead of a candidate with some principles. If you're looking that way for hope, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

-jcr

[Billy!]

I've always assumed the Republicans would be more likely to trend toward, shall we say, populist economics with social conservatism a la Huckabee rather than the other way.

Also anybody else think that with that new swept back hairstyle (rather than the flop he used to have) Mr. Graham is beginning to weirdly resemble David Lynch?

[John Thacker]

Nah, they're already fucking up enough to jeopardize 2010.

It's very weird, Republicans are showing up pretty well in Gallup's recent "Party Identification" poll. I wrote off Rasmussen finding similar results on the generic ballot as just as coincidence or bad polling, but there seems to be a fair amount of it in recent polling. A lot of politics is just waiting for the other guys to screw up. Of course, lots of time for this to reverse itself, it fluctuates a fair bit week-to-week.

Part of it is the inevitability of being in office. You tick people off, particularly when you get into office by being vague and all your voters thinking that you secretly agree with them and are saying other stuff just for the rubes.

[John C. Randolph]

"Thou shalt not speak ill of other Republicans"

Judge not, lest ye figure out that Lindsey Graham is full of crap.

-jcr

[Pro Libertate]

In Graham's case (I didn't watch the video), I bet this has more to do with Mark Sanford. I imagine there's no love between those two.

[MNG]

Graham is wrong, but so are a lot of libertarians, in a way.

Libertarian ideas can put new life into the GOP, but not purist across the board libertarianism. A massive cut in federal spending, for example, would not be popular right now. But being against specific corporate bail outs would be. And being for moderating the War on Drugs would undercut some of the youth support for Democrats. Etc.

[Jamie]

How did Libertarians get to be the bogeymen?

Because Libertarians want to take the power away from the government, which means the politicians lose their power. Simple.

[Pro Libertate]

If the GOP bought only into the limited government concept, I'd willingly throw my vote their way, even if I disagreed with the rest of their platform.

[The Angry Optimist]

Oh, didn't you hear? The LP nominated a Name Brand Politician instead of a candidate with some principles. If you're looking that way for hope, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Oh, here's a good fucking idea, let's fire up the Circular Firing Squad instead of acting like adults.

Thanks, JCR.

[MNG]

If your're trying to talk about a political philosophy as an academic enterprise, then being pure (i.e. logically consistent) is important. But not if you want to win political power and effect change. Notice that most successful Democrats doesn't try to be "liberally consistent." They try to see where liberalism intersects with current political issues in the most popular forms and then push that. That's what libertarianism has to do.

And it should probably not try to build its own party when it can work within one of the major two in certain areas. Note the success of the NRA vs. the LP in getting what they want (granted the comparison is pretty unfair in many ways).

[Warty]

We're important enough now that a sitting senator feels the need to tell us to go fuck ourselves. Can world domination be far behind?

[MT]

I suspect that the GOP and Democrats will merge into the Govermentfuckyeah Party, and will, as their first combined act, round up the libertarians and put them in reeducation camps.

That's right. They'll call it the "Let Them Eat Cake" party. It'll have the balls of an elephant, the brains of a jackass, and no soul at all....

[Episiarch]

Warty, he was really just telling you to go fuck yourself.

[libertymike]

Another angle: Graham, IMO, fancies himself as a/the true successor to Reagan. Is he out of his mind? I don't see what South Carolina republicans see in him. He's not exactly a great communicator, he is not funny and he comes off as a bit of a pansy.

[Art-P.O.G.]

when it can work within one of the major two in certain areas.

I see no areas in which this would work. For instance, I see very, very little opposition to the WoD among either Reds or Blues.

[JW]

Just as long as he doesn't build this party on rock and roll, I'm good with it.

[Wade]

Given that they sell drinks in bars using the miniature bottles so they can conveniently apply liquor taxes by the drink in SC and along with MD, the only states headed south where my CCW license has no reciprocity, I would say that Graham exemplifies the sorry state of the Republican party and legislation in SC. Beautiful coastline but I couldn't live there.

[Warty]

Epi, if shave myself and get all oiled up, I bet Lindsey'll ask me to fuck him.

[R C Dean]

I really hope the LP manages to capitalize on this cluster fuck situation. I fear they won't . . . .

Bank on it. Of course, a party that is seriously arguing about whether to support legal/taxed marijuana or to hold for legal/untaxed marijuana, deserves to fail. And fail they will. Dammit.

[hmm]

Oh, didn't you hear? The LP nominated a Name Brand Politician instead of a candidate with some principles. If you're looking that way for hope, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

The LP has made significant gains in many local markets. The focus needs to stay in the local arena with sheriffs, city council members, and so on. The focus should not be on the national stage. The choice made was a mistake, I get why it was made an I didn't agree with it. I agree even less with the people that then quickly ran from the party screaming and crying. If it's broke stay and fix it don't stomp your foot and leave. No one is going to compete against the two parties running the show. They have a lock on the national stage. Why attack the strongest point in the defenses?

[Art-P.O.G.]

good points, hmm.

[Pro Libertate]

That's Governmentfuckyeah Party. I left out the 'N', which is necessary to say "Not Libertarians."

[tarran]

Mister Nice Guy is making the same point that Murray Rothbard did when he tried to dissuade people from forming a Libertarian Party.

I also agree that absent a new frontier opening up that allows people to easily "vote with their feet" and escape high-tax/high-regulation, political action is meaningless; absent a demonstration of a functioning libertarian society, most people will assume that we must have a big state. Nothing less than the loss of population to greener shores will force state officials to even consider the notion of reducing their interventions. Even that might not be sufficient; witness the behavior of the Detroit politicians

[hmm]

One more LP point that absolutely drives me ape shit is the fucking absolutes. I deal with this everyday with my brother. Regardless of how right you are you will not get a single sole to agree with you if you refuse to at least entertain some of their ideas or move in increments. There are only a few people walking the earth who are willing to jump head long into any change, much less long held ideals. The progress is a slow steady movement towards the great goal of getting people to realize they hold the same opinions you do and the argument is over the color of the drapes and not the house. All too often the fucking LP crowd will shoot their entire wad on arguing the color of the grapes when a 10 minute discussion on the realization that, "heh we are basically on the same page!" would win people over.

rant done

[bookworm]

"We're gonna go over there and fight them over there so they don't come over here..."

One of the dumbest statements I've ever heard! When we go over there, they come over here. If we didn't go over there, they wouldn't come over here. It's the meddling foreign policy that idiots like Graham supports, which leads to terrorist attacks against us. But obviously, Graham is too ignorant for that to sink into his pea brain.

[SugarFree]

With the last grating pass of the razor, Lindsay looked up at Warty expectantly. Warty tossed the razor away and turned under the harsh glare of the klieg lights. The corn oil dripped from his elbows and penis onto the layer of shower curtains the servants had put down.

"Ah gawd," came Lindsay's effete Southern drawl, "You look good enough to eat for Sunday dinnah." Warty flicked oil playful at him as Lindsay squatted in the gloom outside the powerful lights. The oil was heating up under the them and the room filled with the scent of tacos and immigration.

Lindsay finished off rubberbanding his penis and testicles into a genital bouquet and slowly inserted one then two then three tiny liquor bottles into his anus. They clacked together when he stood. He carefully shimmied toward Warty while flashing his shittiest of shit-eating grins.

Lindsay said, looking deep into Warty's waiting eyes, "Ah wish you were a nigrah."

Warty fainted dead away.

[Warty]

Thanks, SugarFree. I may never masturbate again.

[Brandybuck]

I should email my RLC friends and ask how that's working out for them these days.

Not that great. But alternatives are worse. As I see it, there are four choices for libertarians:

1) Work within the Republican Party. That's what we're trying to do. It's a thankless task because both the GOP and the LP consider us vile traitors, and the Dems still hate us.

2) Work within the Democrat Party. Hah! Hah! While the GOP may number only a few hundred bona fide libertarians nationwide, the Dems have a mere half dozen.

3) Work within the Libertarian Party. This sounds plausible, but it takes only a few weeks after joining before you realize that the LP has absolutely no interest in actually winning elections. At least on the national level.

4) Giving up and staying home. Chance of changing things: 0%.

[Brandon]

The LP and libertarians in general would do better to focus most of their time and attention on election and ballot reform. The plurality-wins election system is what freezes us out. We have millions of libertarianish voters who don't for libertarianish candidates. Make it possible for them to do so, and for their votes to put into power a corresponding number of libertarian officeholders, and the country is instantly more libertarian.

[SugarFree]

Thanks, SugarFree. I may never masturbate again.

You say that now, but I know what will happen the next time a Fantasy Island rerun comes on.

"Da plane, da plane!"

"I'll be in my bunk."

How the fuck did libertarians become the boogeyman to both sides all of a sudden? What asshole genius pulled off that slight of hand?

Maybe because people are confusing them with cosmotarians?

[Brandon]

don't *vote* for libertarianish candidates.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Sugarfree, your 3:54 post is good but needs an accompanying Tom of Finland illustration.

[The Angry Optimist]

yeah, well, you have a whole mess of Artards running around either writing in ineligible candidates (Ron Paul) or refusing to vote because they have some personality drama with the LP. LPers are more dramatic than teenagers with cams and MySpace.

[Forty-Two]

you will not get a single sole to agree with you if you refuse to at least entertain some of their ideas or move in increments.

Aha! I see your mistake, hmm. You're never going to get anywhere trying to convince soles. They're the most stubborn of the flatfishes.

Hone your arguments on flounder or fluke before you try tangling with a sole.

[Paul]

"we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

How's that workin' out for ya?

[SugarFree]

Sugarfree, your 3:54 post is good but needs an accompanying Tom of Finland illustration.

A) Illustration is handled by another department. Third door on the right.

B) My biggest regret is suggesting that a black person would even consider sleeping with Lindsay Graham, even if just in Graham's imagination.

[Daniel]

But can they perhaps build the party on rock and roll? Jefferson Starship built an entire city!

[Scott]

Priceless...
He is a living breathing caricature of why folks cant tolerate the Repubs any more.
Pitiful.

[Pro Libertate]

Sorry, Daniel, but the ban hammer will soon strike you down for referring to the worst song ever. We were about to be admitted to an enlightened, multi-galaxy republic until its representatives heard that song.

[Art-P.O.G.]

B) My biggest regret is suggesting that a black person would even consider sleeping with Lindsay Graham, even if just in Graham's imagination.

That was hilarious. Kinda reminded me of that prostitute from FriskyDingo who calls every dude she sleeps with a "big black son-of-a-bitch."

[BakedPenguin]

Jefferson Starship built an entire city!

This one? Because that probably won't help your argument.

[Art-P.O.G.]

worst song ever.

Sure, the lyrics to that song are among the worst ever devised by humanity, but it is catchy as hell... :::ducks

[hmm]

The LP needs a marketing and branding campaign and has for a long time. Most in the party go bat shit cross eyed angry when anyone says this, but it is true.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Also,

A) Illustration is handled by another department. Third door on the right.

I'm scared to go in that door 'lest I be sodomized.

[Team America]

C'mon, guys.

The LP is impotent, because it doesn't realize that it only has a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-credible_threat
since it fails to convince libertarians, to vote one way or the other.

And it really doesn't matter what platform the winning candidate supports, as long as it is clear that Libertarians are able to pick winners.

If the LP can't figure out how to pick winners, it has no reason to exist and should stop wasting resources.

[SugarFree]

Art-P.O.G.,

Have you seen Californication?

Chloe: "Ah, god! Fuck me like Al Qaeda!"

David Duchovny: "Uh... I'm... I'm declaring a jihad on your pussy!"

Chloe: "Ah yeah! Fuck me with your half-black cock!"

Duchovny's confused stare is priceless.

[Xeones]

Daniel: Getting that song stuck in my head was the shit icing on the steaming, sticky turd cake that was today. Thanks for that.

Art: Don't worry, Warty will be gentle.

[SugarFree]

Art: Don't worry, Warty will be gentle.

No, he won't. Because you wouldn't want him in other way. I know your type, Xeones. You like it rough. Rough like 40 miles of bad road.

[The Angry Optimist]

But, Xeones, don't you remember?

Remember?

[?]

C'mon, guys.

The LP is impotent, because it doesn't realize that it only has a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-credible_threat
since it fails to convince libertarians, to vote one way or the other.

And it really doesn't matter what platform the winning candidate supports, as long as it is clear that Libertarians are able to pick winners.

If the LP can't figure out how to pick winners, it has no reason to exist and should stop wasting resources.

Shut the fuck up, LoneWacko.

[Hazel Meade]

I'm torn between hoping for a total Republican party implosion and reorientation of the political spectrum, and hoping for a libertarian takeover of the Republican party, in which we keep the religious right as our chattal slaves, since they don't have anyone else to vote for anyway.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Have you seen Californication?

Just an episode on my Tudors season two DVD. I liked it. Haven't seen that episode but I might have to pick up the series on Amazon.

[Daniel]

BakedPenguin:

Detroit jokes aside, this is the city I want the GOP to resemble.

[R C Dean]

SugarFree:

David Duchovny was cast to play Barack Obama?

That's just weird.

[libertymike]

Starship, not Jefferson Starship, in 1985-the year in which that great hit was released. Of course, Sara was their best tune.

[libertymike]

One should not conflate Marty Balin with Micky Thomas.

[SugarFree]

David Duchovny was cast to play Barack Obama?

Martin: Uh, Sir, why don't you just use real cows?

Painter: Cows don't look like cows on film. You gotta use horses.

Ralph: What do you do if you want something that looks like a horse?

Painter: Eh, usually we just tape a bunch of cats together.

[libertymike]

What is wrong with casting David Duchovny as BHO? After all, he has just as much African American blood flowing through his veins as BHO does.

[Ben]

Fuck Lindsay Graham...

He broke his own 11th commandment...and I highly doubt that Reagan would agree that Graham is a "Reagon Republican."

I think he feels threatened...why does a Senator need to make the point that he does not agree with a Representative of his own party?

[Tony]

They're not gonna build it around Republican ideas either. The sad fact is that Democrats despite propaganda to the contrary encompass everyone from far left to moderate right, leaving the extreme right scraps for the Repubs.

[NAL]

My personal opinion is that libertarians need to concentrate on fiscal responsibility alone as a platform. Screw the WOD, open borders, social issues, WOT, etc. (Be populist on those issues for all I care..whatever wins)

Fiscal responsibility is the one issue that John (and to a lesser extent, Jane) Q. Public is craving (witness the tea parties). That it doesn't exist in either of the major parties has been well established now. In a sense, this may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity because of the last 8 years of GWB and the Obama spend-o-rama being so fresh in everyones' mind.

It's such an important issue for America's future that we can't be purist now. We can concentrate on the other issues once we have more guys/gals with L's after their names in office.

Lindthy Graham is a Reason libertarian. He is gay and supports comprehensive immigration reform.

[NLE]

FOr a minute i thought this was a campaign for liberty event, and couldn't figure out why these retards were clapping. I don't want to steal the other guys "Doom" shtick, but seriously; i like to think political parties can die, but this one i want to kill myself.

[crimethink]

I like how he says his favorite line from the Bible is a line that's not in the Bible. And then he wonders why social conservatives dislike him...

[-]

Where does the notion that Graham is light on the social conservatism come from? He voted for the anti-same-sex marriage amendment.

Sssshhhhh!!! Don't tell his husband.

[NLE]

I like this # guy

[mark]

How about a "Liberty Party" where we only field candidates who answer questions in one of two ways:

1) The Constitution never authorized that.
2) Let the States decide.

The candidates must never answer "yes" to questions about decriminalization/legalization and never answer "no" on family values issues unless you can answer with 1) or 2) above.

Then when they get in they vote with Republicans except on big issues where they vote the right way.

Anyone resembling an anarchist/nutjob would not be allowed in. This, unfortunately, would exclude our 3rd President. Oh well, you have to make compromises.

[mark]

Here is the entire Liberty Party platform:

"For the love of God, please stop voting for Democrats and Republicans."

If that doesn't work, how about a new grassroots movement for a Balanced Budget Amendment? That would be as Earth-shattering as a Goldwater win would have been.

[jk]

Another fucking moron!

[Cap\'n NoStar]

I remember Reagan saying that libertarianism was at the heart of the Republican party.

How long can can this corpse live?

[JW]

But can they perhaps build the party on rock and roll? Jefferson Starship built an entire city!

< muntz> Ha-ha!< /muntz> I made the same joke an hour earlier and Daniel gets all the grief!

[John Thacker]

In Graham's case (I didn't watch the video), I bet this has more to do with Mark Sanford. I imagine there's no love between those two.

This is true as well. Mark Sanford also came on and blasted Lindsey Graham and defended libertarianism.

All the conservative activists and magazines, like the American Spectator, National Review, etc., love Sanford and DeMint and hate Lindsey Graham. Somehow this is taken as evidence that the same activists and magazines hate libertarians.

Unfortunately, the Republicans, or any other party, will never have a majority without people like Graham-- or Specter. And an actual libertarian candidate would be crushed in an election like Goldwater was. I'd like to think that someone like DeMint or Sanford might have a chance, but I fear that, ugh, McCain is probably as "libertarian" as a candidate that could ever win.

Where does the notion that Graham is light on the social conservatism come from? He voted for the anti-same-sex marriage amendment.

Sure, if you also consider Bill Clinton a raging social conservative as well.

[Sean Scallon]

""we're not gonna build this party around libertarian ideas."

Fine then. The GOP will be the party of no ideas in 2010 and then will see if that works.

And then when you're reduced to 30 Senate seats and 150 House seats, perhaps then you might give Ron Paul a call.

[MJ]

"Unfortunately, the Republicans, or any other party, will never have a majority without people like Graham-- or Specter."

Perhaps, but people like Graham have somehow come into the idea that they can win without the GOP's ideological base, which is more economically libertarian than the moderates like (and more socially conservative than pure libertarians would like). Politicians like Graham and Spector are outliers, the come into the party as a marriage of convenience, but they cannot lead the party because they associated with it for cynical reasons rather than principled ones.

I love how Graham calls himself a winner. He is one of the people responsible for making McCain the party's standard bearer, the least inspiring and inspired candidate since Bob Dole. Lindsay, you tried it with your preferred candidate and got the GOP's collective ass handed to you. Your clique within the party are losers.

[Tony]

perhaps then you might give Ron Paul a call.

Great, then you can add the few libertarians who don't already vote Republican. Of course that's a largely older white male group, which is not the demographic they need to be appealing to.

[Bill R]

"How the fuck did libertarians become the boogeyman to both sides all of a sudden? What asshole genius pulled off that slight of hand?"

Because our ideas say "both sides" have too much authority over our lives. It's not exactly receptive to power hungry politicians.

At least two prominent South Carolinians are rhetorically challenging "Lindsey Graham Republicanism". Governor Mark Sanford directly addressed
Graham's statement and Senator Jim DeMint penned this "http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124121871475178899.html">excellent espousal of liberty and federalism.

No wonder Lindsey Graham is defensive...he's the odd man out ideologically in his state.

Great, then you can add the few libertarians who don't already vote Republican. Of course that's a largely older white male group, which is not the demographic they need to be appealing to.

What do you care? An Obama asslicker like you should be happy to see the GOP fail. It makes the current president seem damn near competent.

[Art-P.O.G.]

How long can can this corpse live?

I think at some point, both major parties may have been (largely) zombified. I mean, we know the Republicans are at least partly necrotic right now.

[Inspector Fu]

So when voting for Lindsay graham you're voting for...

uh.. mm..

Calvin? Hobbes?

Sounds like a marketable platform to me.

[Robert]

How did Libertarians get to be the bogeymen?

Because Libertarians want to take the power away from the government, which means the politicians lose their power. Simple.

Simple and wrong. 90% of its current power -- in nearly any country, at any level -- could be taken away from gov't, and almost every individual politician would still have the same amount of power s/he currently has. Don't confuse the total of gov't's power with the power any politician wields.

Meanwhile, the reason religious "right"ness in the USA (and some other countries, though far from all of them) is so positively correlated with libertarianism is that the predominant flavor of religion among conservatives that are politically active in this country is Calvinist, regardless of what denomination they may nominally be. Even among Catholics in the USA the Calvinist influence is substantial.

[Mike Laursen]

Great! Now, if only we could get more Republicans to declare that they are not libertarians. Would be the best thing in the world for libertarianism.

[Fuck Lindsey Graham]

That's right. Fuck Lindsey Graham.