California Politicians, to Citizens: It's Too Difficult to Tax You
The state budget has jumped from $104 billion to $145 billion in less than six years, opening up an 11-figure (and technically illegal) budget gap. Spending growth has increased 6.8 percent a year under the current administration, compared to annual inflation-plus-population growth of just under 5 percent. Public sector unions dominate the political culture, fattening unstable pension programs and keeping public sector employment high. Sales taxes, income taxes, sin taxes, and various license fees have all recently been increased, and municpalities have been hiking their taxes and fees as well. And there are (insane) proposals on the table of a Democrat-led state legislature to do stuff like force resident businesses with websites–and their customers!–to pay sales tax on all e-commerce.
So what's Calfornia gonna do? Maybe launch a Constitutional Convention…to make it easier to raise taxes.
At issue is the requirement that a two-thirds vote of the California Legislature is needed to pass the state's budget and tax increases. California is one of just a handful of states requiring such a supermajority, and most years it leads to a weeks-long budget impasse. Convention backers want to drop the two-thirds majority rule to 55 percent.
There are many good reasons for a constitutional mulligan in California, some of them listed in the article (a cajillion amendments, spending formulae that turn the budget into a self-perpetuating pretzel, and a jiggery-pokery funding system from municipalities to states and back on down to counties). But don't be fooled for a second: The prize in this fight is reducing the tax threshold from 66.7 percent to 55 percent. It is an article of faith among the state's political class that the two biggest impediments to governability are Proposition 13 (which caps property-tax hikes) and the supermajority rule. To even point out the state's hysterical government and spending growth, which has not come with any noticeable improvement in services, is to initiate a conversation that many people (journalists, especially) have never held.
I wrote about Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's "failure" in February.
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Yo, fuck California.
Damn, that was quick, X.
The Company that I do consultant work for is now moving all of their warehousing, Offices and art departments to Franklin, TN. They can no longer do business in California. 47 more nice paying jobs leaving CA. These employees will no longer be paying CA State income tax nor will the company pay CA Corporate Taxes either - just more dollars leaving CA - which is a shame since the owners like it in Folsom quite a bit.
We can nuke the San Andreas Fault and hope it falls in to the sea. Then we get to watch liberals fail to come to grips with the fact that Obamaman didn't go in to the fault and raise the continental shelf back up.
I don't mess around, James.
Of course we'd have to nuke Hackensack, New Jersey because... it's Hackensack, New Jersey.
What California really needs is a TABOR amendment. That way a simple majority is all they need to raise taxes.
...a simple majority of the popular vote. mwa ha ha ha ha!
Why stop at a simple majority? How about a majority of a quorum, with a quorum consisting of one quarter of all representatives? Or why not just appoint a tax czar and let him/her decide what taxes to have?
Xeones, I think that bear already is.
"I do not have a brain tumor"
...in medium heavey Austrian accent
Wow, if politicians in Cali are whining that it's hard to raise taxes, I would hate to see where Cali would be if it was easier to raise taxes...
"I do not have a brain tumor"
"I will return."
"Come with me if you want to keep on livin'."
"Jingle most of the way."
And here I thought that "public service" meant service to the public. Now it seems that the public exists to service the State.
Sounds like half the population of California works for government and the other half pays the bill.
bumper stickers are nice... but a real tax revolt (as in actually not paying!) would really make them pay attention....
10.000 people doing it simultaneously would swamp enforcement and the courts... 100.000 would probably get away with it, provoke an amnesty.
The way to go is a pledge site. "If by April 2010 20.000 have signed up, I pledge not to file my tax return and to donate 10$ to a legal defense fund"
...as in peacefull passive resistance, withholding cooperation.
Veru nailed it. Those who can run--the people who have enough cash and moxie--are on their way out of Cal, while the spongers are on their way in. As Margaret Thatcher once said, the problem with socialists is that eventually they run out of other people's money. Cal is already there, and the machine is so broken there is no way to fix it without dumping damned near all of it. Pity California can't do what it's southern neighbor did: dump all its unemployed and unemployables on a richer bordering state.
Veru,
Franklin, TN eh? My nephew just moved there from a great talent agency in... L.A.
What gives?
Print more greenish papers to bailout California. The taxpayers and their children of the rest of the country will pay for it.
don't they have gold in Calif? ..should be pretty easy to avoid paying taxes if they had half a brain...
The state budget just 10 years ago was 74 billion. It has doubled in 10 years, have services? No. No one but the illegals, the "poor", and the Unions derive any benefit from the State anymore.
and most years it leads to a weeks-long budget impasse.
Oh noes, WEEKS! can you believe it takes WEEKS to work it out. Some years even a month! It's a wonder the state doesn't just disintegrate with that kind of budget process...
This is what drives me crazy... that anyone would think that a smoother process is the most important thing of all, more important than making, you know, a good budget.
10.000 people doing it simultaneously would swamp enforcement and the courts... 100.000 would probably get away with it, provoke an amnesty.
You underestimate the Beast, young Jedi. The Beast conquers by dividing. It need only "make an example" of a handful of protesters for the rest to fall in line.
You underestimate the Beast, young Jedi. The Beast conquers by dividing. It need only "make an example" of a handful of protesters for the rest to fall in line.
..so the handful "do a Geithner" say "oops, my mistake" and comply... the rest keep resisting... plus an offshore account for donations to a legal defense fund helps those most threatened...
Tax Revolt 2009-Heads on a stick, Recall Adams, and Oh Yea-Vote No on Prop A-F.
If you want to know what is wrong with the entire Republican Party, look no further than the California Republican Party.
"This isn't the state of California. This is the state of insanity."
- Robert Stack as Major General Joe Stilwell in Steven Speilberg's "1941"
Who in their right mind would ever want to spend a day in California?
Arnold is a FRAUD! He, along with Deval Patrick, are two of the worst governors in our history.
It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill to outlaw businesses leaving the state.
" All I know is, on the day your plane was to leave, if I had the power, I would turn the winds around, I would roll in the fog, I would bring in storms, I would change the polarity of the earth so compasses couldn't work, so your plane couldn't take off."
It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill to outlaw businesses leaving the state.
Actually, they'll just make you get a permit for leaving. The permit will cost $5,000.
NAL,
I was thinking of a retroactive tax but I like where you were heading.
Exit Tax!
what a great idea! no constitutional limitations on that, I'll get too it right away
ha, you should check out what your tax obligations to the US are right now even if you leave and renounce citizenship... you might be surprised... even 10 years after leaving you still have to pay.
Refresh my memory - wasn't it a self-inflicted budget situation just like this one that caused the recall that ushered in the Governator in the first place? And wasn't that, like, not really very long ago?
Is the complete failure of short-term policy memory an Austrian thing? Something steroid-related? Or should we just forget it, Jake, it's cali-town?
Victor Davis Hanson has pointed this out. California is blessed with Hollywood, Silicon Valley, tourism, fertile land, world class ports, OIL, timber...and the politicians still managed to bankrupt the state. Why is no one in the media seriously analyzing what happened?
"..so the handful "do a Geithner" say "oops, my mistake" and comply... "
That only works if you've been appointed Treasury Secretary by the Hope and Change President.
Everyone else pays a heavy fine or goes to prison.
"It's only a matter of time til the Legislature passes a bill to outlaw businesses leaving the state."
I really wish someone could build a machine that runs at atmospheric static electricity. But, alas, I fear that it conflicts with the second law of thermodynamics.
economist,
Indeed. Or unless you conspire to stop the motor of the world.
Stopping the motor of the world is a young man's game, Naga. It requires a lot of work that I'm too lazy to do and intelligence that I don't have.
Now, now. The motor used new physics. That's legitimate. If somebody figures out how to build a machine that runs on atmospheric static electricity, the second law of thermodynamics doesn't stop them, they've merely disproven it.
Why do you hate the workin' man, Matt?
Palmer: It's the elephant in the room, the one who speaks with a Latino accent. Nobody wants to admit that Mexicans are shiftless, lazy thieves. Ironically, the people who tell us that we need to move past racism are still making all their decisions based solely on race...
Counterintuitively, the budget supermajority requirement may actually be worsening the deficit. Remember all the extra pork that had to be added to TARP I in order to get it passed? Those extra votes cost money.
If somebody figures out how to build a machine that runs on atmospheric static electricity, the second law of thermodynamics doesn't stop them, they've merely disproven it.
Oh god! Don't do that - the State will grab that, too - like it did with the first laser. National Security, don't you know.
What's that bear doing to the state of California?
Here's a link to the relevant law governing the State's authority. As I recall, one of the laser's original inventors was denied a patent on the grounds of national security and his patent subsequently granted to Bell Labs (who apparently was better connected.) Still looking for an online site to that, but I think I remember Reason doing an article on this case back in the 1970's. Maybe someone could check.
Okay, here's a book that tells the whole story alot better than my memory does.
more important than making, you know, a good budget.
Bigger is better.
duh
We can nuke the San Andreas Fault and hope it falls in to the sea.
Unfortunately, Sacramento is well on the mainland side of the fault. Would be better to trigger the Melones Fault.
That way a simple majority is all they need to raise taxes.
That would be OK with me as long as all new ballot initiatives are required to have titles like the "Drowning Puppies Amendment of 2009".
Who in their right mind would ever want to spend a day in California?
As I write this, I'm looking upon a cascade of graceful, white Apricot tree blossoms in my backyard. Clear skies, just detectible breeze in the air, a tad cooler than room temperature.
ha, you should check out what your tax obligations to the US are right now even if you leave and renounce citizenship... you might be surprised... even 10 years after leaving you still have to pay.
Only if your destination country has an extradition treaty with the USA...
I really wish someone could build a machine that runs at atmospheric static electricity. But, alas, I fear that it conflicts with the second law of thermodynamics.
And just look at this perpetual motion machine! It just keeps getting faster! *pounds on wall* Lisa! In this house we *obey* the laws of thermodynamics!
Read here how government is set to kill Silicon Valley permanently. Asian countries can hardly believe their luck.
"I would hate to see where Cali would be if it was easier to raise taxes..."
Easy, Mexifornia.
Does anyone dispute that California's economy will converge with that of Mexico?
Jeffersonian:
And here I thought that "public service" meant service to the public. Now it seems that the public exists to service the State.
No, the state services the public. Bulls service cows, don't they?
As I write this, I'm looking upon a cascade of graceful, white Apricot tree blossoms in my backyard. Clear skies, just detectible breeze in the air, a tad cooler than room temperature.
That's funny- I'mm looking at the melting remnants of a foot of snow which fell last night.
Fucking global warming!
California weather is so good, its soil and natural resources so perfect, that CA can sustain 5 point more of marginal tax above any other tax hell in America.
In other words, where people would flee Michigan or Massachusetts at a 45% top rate, CA residents won't break until 50%.
But the state seems intent on using up even this 5% natural buffer. After that, people will leave either by choice, or because their employer shifted jobs out of the state.
And don't think they are going to other US states like NV and AZ. No. They are going to Asia, leaving the US altogether. Asia is where many of the most productive Californians are from, after all.
What was once unthinkable - people leaving CA to return to China and India, is now a reality.
Not to quibble, but under California law, internet sellers that have any physical presence in California are already required to remit sales tax to the state of California.
In the last quarter of 2008, Barnes & Noble reported their first loss in many years, because they had to pay back sales taxes to California.
Also, if a California resident buys online or from an out of state mail-order dealer, and the dealer does not charge sales tax, the resident is supposed to report the purchase on his income tax form, and pay use tax.
There is a group known as California Forward, which seeks to make some big changes in "governance" in the Golden State. They have been testing the waters of support for such proposals as: modifying or repealing Prop. 13 so that, at very least, commercial property would not be protected; making the sales tax apply to more transactions, including those involving services, rather than goods; and instituting a carbon tax. I was present at a dog-and-pony show they put on in my town. Our local county tax collector (former assemblyman and county supervisor) analogized the operation of the State to taking a road trip. The car (CA economy) breaks down and a friendly repair guy (the legislature) shows up, but his "tools" are only sufficient to repair Model T's, not the smooth rides that we have in the modern day. The goal of California Forward is to modernize Bob the Mechanic's toolchest, by gum!
It was at this point that and even some of the most tax-friendly, liberal-minded members of the audience, began to feel for our wallets.
Later, that same pol felt it necessary to say, "nobody" (and he rattled out a list of the nobodies -- other pols, NGOs, and State agencies -- to whom he referred) was seeking to "raise taxes." But only an idiot would have believed such strenuous denials. He didst protest too much, methinks. And now it is the citizens' turn to protest.
I think it would be a fantastic idea for the California government to raise taxes as high as it likes. The resulting catastrophe would teach California and all other states what happens when you decide to raise taxes in a state with all ready sky high taxes.
I'd love to watch the nightmare scenario where all productive Californians all the sudden become productive Oregonians, Nevadans, Texans, etc. Then all the parasitic Californians (and parasitic Americans), especially the politicians will see that maybe private sector greed is nothing compared to public sector greed.
Can anybody give me a breakdown on what the changes in the California state budget were spent on? Did the population increase? Did expenses increase?
For example, the cost of both land and building materials skyrocketed during the years in question, which means the costs of building things like freeways or schools would increase in proportion.
If the state has a need to build x many schools and y many freeway miles each year, but the cost per school or per mile went up by 40%-guess what, the budget would have to go up 40% as well to provide the same level of product.
Or maybe the population increased, so they had to build x + 40% schools and y + 40% freeway miles just to keep up. Or a combination of the two.
That is, skyrocketing budgets do not necessarily mean that wasteful spending was involved-it could merely mean that costs increased. Now, there may be wasteful spending there, but merely saying, "The budget went from $104 billion to $145 billion means that money was wasted" is a completely false argument.
"I'd love to watch the nightmare scenario where all productive Californians all the sudden become productive Oregonians, Nevadans, Texans, etc. "
Dead wrong. Typical US-centric tunnel vision.
The MOST productive Californians are Asians. They will return to Asia, thus making the US lose their productivity altogether.
Get it?
Also, if a California resident buys online or from an out of state mail-order dealer, and the dealer does not charge sales tax, the resident is supposed to report the purchase on his income tax form, and pay use tax.
I have met exactly one person who actually does this. When he told me and a bunch of my co-workers about it, everyone in the room just sat there in stunned by his, err, um, exemplary citizenship.
The MOST productive Californians are Asians. They will return to Asia, thus making the US lose their productivity altogether.
Do you mean like actual Asians, here on visas, or Asian-Americans? If it's the former, they are very productive but there aren't that many. If you're talking about the latter, they're from here -- they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that they're not from.
Can anybody give me a breakdown on what the changes in the California state budget were spent on? Did the population increase? Did expenses increase?
I don't know where to point you to for a succinct summary of where it all goes, but the biggest items are salaries and retirement for teachers, prison guards, and other public employees.
"Do you mean like actual Asians, here on visas, or Asian-Americans? If it's the former, they are very productive but there aren't that many. If you're talking about the latter, they're from here -- they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that they're not from."
I mean both. Even Asian-Americans born here are in fact moving to Asia. They have cousins and uncles there. Many HAVE gone.
they're not all going to pack up and go someplace that they're not from.
Didn't you just say that Asians packed up and moved to America? So why won't US-born Asian Americans go to a country where they already have cousins and uncles who they know, and hav visited before?
Think, man, think. America is not as great as it once was.
Don't throw the word "many" around so casually, man. 🙂
I'm well aware that America is not as great as it once was. I've thought of emigrating myself.
Still, no significant number of Asian-Americans are going to take off to Asia. They were born here or at least have lived most of their lives here, and they're Americans. This is their home. They'd miss cheeseburgers and football and Thanksgiving just as much as all us non-Asian Americans.
That's why Xeones should be a policeman.
Anyway, why would a liberal like Schwartzenegger cut spending?
"They were born here or at least have lived most of their lives here, and they're Americans. This is their home. They'd miss cheeseburgers and football and Thanksgiving just as much as all us non-Asian Americans"
So why did Indians and Chinese pack up to come to America? Wouldn't Indians miss the cricket, diwali, Bollywood films, weddings, and their throngs of relatives and friends?
It is quite arrogant to think that cheeseburgers (which can be bought there too) and football (which also can be watched from there) have enough pull to keep someone here, when their parents left their homes to come here.
Tom is right. I'm an American who now lives in Asia and I'm very happy living here because I don't have to pay for the welfare suckers and liberal idiocy. The lefties have sunk America by trying to make it possible for those who don't work to have as much as those who do. Here in Asia, there's a simple rule: work hard because no one owes you a damned thing and if you don't earn it, you won't have it.
Pity America lost the ability to understand that awhile back. Maybe the upcoming implosion might just make them remember it. However, what is more likely is the suckers and welfare bums will just keep voting themselves more largesse from the public coffers. That means more productive people like me will be finding themselves over on the western side of the Pacific.
Obama's a disaster but America is just beginning to drink the cup of bitter gall that will be reaped by his election. Bad, bad mistake. With enough bad luck it may prove fatal.
So why did Indians and Chinese pack up to come to America? Wouldn't Indians miss the cricket, diwali, Bollywood films, weddings, and their throngs of relatives and friends?
You're just really bad at assessing the quantity of people who engage in international migration. Most people stay put. That's all.
"You're just really bad at assessing the quantity of people who engage in international migration. Most people stay put. That's all."
Wrong. Most of Silicon Valley runs on Indians and Chinese (whether 1st or 2nd generation) There is no logic at all to your US-centric views.
I told you that Asians come here at great personal sacrifice, so why can't US-born Asian Americans go to Asia, where they have cousins and other relatives anyway?
They ARE going back. It appears cheeseburgers and apple pie (which you can get there too, BTW) just don't have the pull that you think they do.
If we can get Samosas and Spring Rolls here, why can't they get apple pie there? Is apple pie too high tech for India and China to produce?
"I'm well aware that America is not as great as it once was. I've thought of emigrating myself."
It'll take awhile before I pack up and give up on the States. Then again, I would stick out like a sore thumb anywhere in Asia, and I've never had any proficiency in foreign languages.
"That's funny- I'mm looking at the melting remnants of a foot of snow which fell last night."
And you live where? Alaska?
Meant "plus" not "then again".