Dems All Pork When It Comes to Defending Defense Spending
So it's not just Republican Congress critters who know how to bust the budget when it comes to wasteful and useless defense spending (ain't consensus grand?). From the Wash Post c/o of Instapundit and Alan Vanneman:
It was Democrats who stuffed an estimated $524 million in defense earmarks that the Pentagon did not request into the 2008 appropriations bill, about $220 million more than Republicans did, according to an independent estimate. Of the 44 senators who implored Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in January to build more F-22 Raptors—a fighter conceived during the Cold War that senior Pentagon officials say is not suited to probable 21st-century conflicts—most were Democrats.
And last July, when the Navy's top brass decided to end production of their newest class of destroyers—in response to 15 classified intelligence reports highlighting their vulnerability to a range of foreign missiles—seven Democratic senators quickly joined four Republicans to demand a reversal. They threatened to cut all funding for surface combat ships in 2009.
Within a month, Gates and the Navy reversed course and endorsed production of a third DDG-1000 destroyer, at a cost of $2.7 billion.
"Too many contractors have been allowed to get away with delay after delay in developing unproven weapon systems," Obama said, attributing $295 billion in cost overruns to "influence peddling" and "a lack of oversight" that produces weapons meant "to make a defense contractor rich" instead of securing the nation.
He did not mention that since 2006, Democratic lawmakers have presided over a 10 percent increase in the Pentagon's budget—it now amounts to 46 percent of the government's total discretionary spending—and have also voted repeatedly to keep funding weapons systems that have had hundreds of billions of dollars in cost overruns.
Boy, remember when $524 million was a number that seemed shockingly big?
Defense spending as a percentage of total fed outlays here.
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"Congress Critters" is a registered trademark of Dave Barry, LLC, Gillespie.
I forget- how many A-10s (an excellent and extremely versatile airplane) can you build for the cost of a single F-22?
P Brooks,
500 million.
Of the 44 senators who implored Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in January to build more F-22 Raptors...most were Democrats.
It's true. Pigs can fly.
They don't care if the ships get blown to pieces. Their children are not on board.
I think I prefer the more technical term, "Congressional Douchebags"
The champion was defense appropriations subcommittee Chairman John P. Murtha (D-Pa.), who collected $743,275 of the industry's money
I had the displeasure of listening to this tub of shit give a speech once. I honestly think that might have been the lowest point of my life.
Funding the Raptor and similar next-generation aircraft (Long Range Bomber, refueling and cargo aircraft, CSAR, etc.) were what led both SECAF Wynne and AF Chief of Staff Moseley to cut 30K Air Force troops when they were supposed to be fighting a war in two geographically separated countries.
Before they were both fired by SECDEF Gates, anyway.
After decades of failing to plan for future equipment needs by the Air Force's leadership, these two guys were suddenly so focused on the future that they were willing to cannibalize the current force to buy more F-22's. They gutted the force of its future leaders in favor of equipment.
They were so focused on the F-22 that they cut personnel to try to afford more aircraft during war-time, when manpower is at its highest premium.
In fact, they were so focused on flashy new gear that they took their eyes off the nuclear ball AND the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq.
How badly do you deserve to be fired when you shift your focus from the real-world fight to focusing on the possiblity of a threat from a resurgent Russia and a newly powerful China so you can rationalize the need for new equipment?
You need to be fired even more than the decades of leadership that failed to plan for the future equipment needs of their service.
The Air Force failed the most important test of leadership - you lead people, not equipment. Equipment doesn't win battles, people do. It's not about equipment, it's about the people who use it, maintain it, repair it, support it and employ it against the enemy.
The F-22 is an awesome piece of gear, sure, but not something to sacrifice current mapower for.
But I'm probably biased, since I was one of the guys who got RIF'd so that the Air Force could fail to meet the SECDEF's deployment requirements.
On the other hand, I'm really happy with my cushy new civilian job.
The F-22 is an awesome piece of gear, sure, but not something to sacrifice current mapower for
Obviously you don't understand the purpose. It isn't about the platform, it's about how many backs can be scratched. Same mentality that put the wrong powder into the M16s originally. Doesn't matter how many people die.
Other Matt - Yeah, silly me, here I was thinking about the mission to win America's wars, which went out the window even before the Air Force started paying games with its Mission statement and added a bunch of nonsense about "sovereign options" and flying and fighting in "Space and Cyberspace."
Last I checked, the USAF was completely unable to get the F-22 into outer space OR into anyone's broadband connection.
I read somewhere there are 183 F-22s right now, and NONE have been used in Iraq/Afghan..
And they want to double the number of squadrons.
The Navy also presses ahead with building new carriers, which require a huge fleet to supply and protect them, instead of building a swarm of smaller blue-ocean ships that are much harder to target.
But, what about those 95,000 American jobs that the industry says depend upon the F-22? 😉
NONE have been used in Iraq/Afghan..
Jesus Christ! Those planes are too valuable to be sent where somebody might shoot one down!
The DDG-1000 class is a waste of money until we develop a working rail-gun. Ticonderoga class cruisers and Arleigh Burke class destroyers are still a generation ahead of anything our potential adversaries have in the way of surface combatants.
Yep, that's a retired, salt encrusted Master Chief Fire Controlman talking. You'd think I'd refexively give support for the Zumwalt class destroyers, and maybe I would if I were still active duty. Or maybe not. I mocked the Spruance cans from the beginning.
Hell, I could make a better case for building nuclear powered beef barges (BBs).
Who is this J sib D?
"Too many contractors have been allowed to get away with delay after delay in developing unproven weapon systems," Obama said, attributing $295 billion in cost overruns to "influence peddling" and "a lack of oversight" that produces weapons meant "to make a defense contractor rich" instead of securing the nation.
Note that all those "evil greedy contractors" must play the game following the rules established in the procurement regulations written by the U.S. Congress.
P Brooks - Good one!
But seriously, about the only way an F-22 is going to end up as a lawn dart is catastrophic system failure, pilot error, or some combination of the two. It puts the "superiority" in "air superiority" and then some. Not only are there no jet fighter rivals that could hunt it down (probably not even the Sukhoi Su-35BM) and shoot it out of the sky, it's a standard fast-mover that is too high and too fast for a lucky shot from a mujahideen Stinger (like HIND helicopters back when people used to say that "Afghanistan is Russian for Vietnam.")
Told you.
Note that all those "evil greedy contractors" must play the game following the rules established in the procurement regulations written by the U.S. Congress.
Strengthening our regulatory regime will fix this.
it's a standard fast-mover that is too high and too fast for a lucky shot from a mujahideen Stinger
1980's technology. While impressive, I can't imagine the U.S. Military doesn't have the technology or made the advancements to evade or spoof the infamous stinger with...it's own equipment.
J sub D wants to fire a rail gun from his beef barge.
Kinky.
Who is this J sib D?
A poort ypist. Pronne to misspalling and tiepos.
But he obviously knows that building a platform for a weapon that doesn't yet exist is somewhat less than thrifty.
building a platform for a weapon that doesn't yet exist is somewhat less than thrifty.
Pessimist.
But, they are JOBS! Who cares if what they are making is necessary as long as people are working, eh? It stimulates the economy! it keeps the money circulating!
Seriously, in the Democrats fantasy world, an economy based entirely on exchanging colored rocks for amusing fortune cookies would be just as good as one where people actually build useful stuff that other people want.
What do consumers know, after all? We can't let such a small matter as consumer preference get in the way of our ideal society! People aren't buying enough cars? Subsidize the car companies! People aren't buying enough houses? Cash incentives for house buying!
"Yep, that's a retired, salt encrusted Master Chief Fire Controlman talking."
I have a 1948 Navy Fireman's coat (wool, winter). It is so cool!
Seriously, in the Democrats fantasy world, an economy based entirely on exchanging colored rocks for amusing fortune cookies
Way, way back when I was a kid, my dad described this line of economic thinking as "A bunch of men in a burlap sack trading hats for a living."
I think we should dedicate our strategic arsenal strictly to weapons that make other nations say, "Oh my God, they have that?" Like giant killer robots, that kind of thing.
PL,
That's to the plot of Philip K. Dick's The Zap Gun. The Cold War becomes creating one-off super weapons, filming the results on an unpopulated areas, and scaring the shit out of each side's population. WepFash (weapons fashion) designers take enormous amounts of drugs and dream the weapons up in a trance.
Like giant killer robots, that kind of thing.
Well, I think when your culture is currently at the level of donkeys with pots clanging on the sides, the F-22 is kind of like a giant super-killer robot.
Like giant killer robots, that kind of thing.
I would wait until our insurance industry is more stable.
"We've secretly replaced the word 'close' in SugarFree's last post with nothing at all. Let's watch the results."
Boy, remember when $524 million billion was a number that seemed shockingly big?
Fixed that for ya.
I think we should dedicate our strategic arsenal strictly to weapons that make other nations say, "Oh my God, they have that?" Like giant killer robots, that kind of thing.
Which brings us back to nuclear powered BBs. Just think - 16 inch guns (3 triple turrets) capable of tossing 2,700 pound gps equipped guided projectiles 25 miles appears off your coast with an attitude.
It is protected by 16 inches of armor plate with a reactive armor exterior.
It's not practical, but damn, wouldn't that make the mayor of Bandar Abbas shit bricks?
rob-
It should be clear that the AF CoS and Sec were fired specifically for the nuclear weapons thing. Both Clark and Mullens took steps to reduce manpower requirements for the Navy for most of the last 8 years.
And there is the larger issue that manned aviation may just be like a 15th century knight - obsolete, but both users and adversaries are unaware of it yet.
Well, then, who am I to argue with Philip K. Dick?
We could just give every American citizen some PyrE. Then even our tourist incursions would be feared.
It's not practical, but damn, wouldn't that make the mayor of Bandar Abbas shit bricks?
I would predict he would be nonplussed. We have enough conventional firepower to turn Iraq into rubble twice over on top of the once we already did.
I know the comment was a joke, but the real problem is that shock and awe is actually quite easy. It's hearts and minds that's the tough nut to crack.
Re: My battleship fantasy. Tell me this ain't awesome.
Don't get me wrong Master Chief, I love war pr0n possibly more than anyone here. And have a personal financial interest in the expansion of the nuclear navy.
PL,
The Transmigration of Souls by William Barton. America goes extreme isolationist and American tourist who go abroad are all fitted with explosives in case they are attacked or interrogated about American technology, usually enough to destroy a good hunk of a city.
Not much of a novel otherwise.
I have a cunning plan. We should claim to have invented a device that sucks souls out of people, then threaten to use it on Islamic terrorists if they don't surrender. We could back up our claim with CGI video. It can't lose.
We should claim to have invented a device that sucks souls out of people, then threaten to use it on Islamic terrorists if they don't surrender.
So, you're suggesting we show them Will Smith movies?
Did they use CGI in Blacula?
Kolohe - That's the one to hang your hat on, no doubt. But when you hand the SECDEF a laundry list of reasons, you really have it coming:
1. the failure to focus on the war at hand in favor of buying gear for a fight with Russia and China that the SECDEF refers to as "borderline insubordination"
2. the attempt to grab the entire UAV mission while spectacularly failing to provide said assets per the SECDEF's orders
3. sending nuclear warhead fuse technology to Taiwan and failing to realize the error for a 1.5 years
4. You've done more damage to the manpower of your branch of service than the total number of casualties of all branches that have been caused by the Iraqi Army, the Taliban and al Qaeda combined
This article sums it up pretty well:
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/06/breaking-air-fo.html
I forget where, but I was just reading that the tooling and capacity to manufacture 16-inch barrels 66 feet long no longer exists anywhere. How long (and and what cost) it would take to gear up is a big question. The Navy is keeping a stock of spares just in case.
Also read the Marines would like at least one Iowa class BB recommisioned. So Iowa remains on the register and one of the others has to be returned if the Navy ever wants it back. I'm sure it's costing a boatload (pun intended) of money to keep those suckers up just sitting tied up.
These are ships that according to my old man and his buddies (pre-WWII officers) thought were obselete before their keels were even laid. Of course, that's mostly in hindsight I think.
And there is the larger issue that manned aviation may just be like a 15th century knight - obsolete, but both users and adversaries are unaware of it yet.
Quibble: I'll agree when it comes to fighters and bombers. But if there are people riding in back, they're going to want people driving in front.
Larry-
yes, I agree, I should have said manned combat aviation.
rob-
I agree entirely with the UAV point. The institutional capture was explified by the fact that the drones were driven by Tech Sergants during the development phase, but the AF insisted on them driven by certified pilots.
I don't know enough about the personnel issues in the AF. I can say in the Navy that the fifteen years I've been in the Navy been alternatively feast or famine wrt current and projected levels. I was lucky to be a notcher. But it's one of the toughest issues the military faces precisely because it takes around a decade before a service memeber is performing at peak 'productivity' (which is to say, the ability to operate more or less independently and simulataneously lead a few other people)
Re: #1. There is a case to be made however, that the air force (and the navy) should in fact be focused on other stuff and let the army and marines take the lead in the field so to speak of their expertise.
Way, way back when I was a kid, my dad described this line of economic thinking as "A bunch of men in a burlap sack trading hats for a living."
Thanks! That's the phrase I was looking for. I couldn't remember what it was, so I had to make something up.
A bunch of men in a burlap sack trading hats for a living.
There's a gay marriage thread for that kind of thing, you know.
"the drones were driven by Tech Sergants during the development phase, but the AF insisted on them driven by certified pilots."
This is clearly a maddening example of why being proficient in a technical skill such as flying aircraft is something that requires the "O"-designation. Similarly, pilots tend to be Warrant Officers in the Army, while in the Air Force it's a serious belief that being able to fly qualifies you for command via the alchemy of the Universal Badge of Command (pilot's wings).
"...it takes around a decade before a service memeber ...operate[s] more or less independently and simulataneously lead a few other people"
No argument here - it's amazing to me how hard it is to get the mission done for the first few years and then magically it's like the skies open and everything becomes much easier.
"There is a case to be made however, that the air force (and the navy) should in fact be focused on other stuff and let the army and marines take the lead in the field so to speak of their expertise."
So to speak... But seriously, the Air Force's desire for fast-movers at the expense of actually useful aircraft like helicopters and A-10's is one of the primary reasons that it's essentially now duplicating much of the effort of the other branches. Want helicopters? Check with the Army. Want fast-movers on the "cheap"? Check with the Navy and the Marines. Want a branch of service that has purposefully created an enclave specifically for long-range bombers and totally overwhelming air-to-air superiority? The Air Force is here for you.
I blame doctrine, and I think Billy Mitchell is probably spinning in his grave over the last 20+ years worth of Air Force "leadership." And he's spinning at 2x normal RPM's because all of those leaders fancy themselves Mitchell mavericks and Curtis LeMay tough guys invoke those two to justify bad decisions.
But it's style and lip-service rather than substance and sweaty, bloody training for the worst-case scenario. ("Oh that? We just simulate conducting that part of the exercise and treat it as completed, then we END-EX and go home...")
I threw up in my mouth a little every time Moseley invoked "What Would Curtis LeMay Do?" as his justification for conducting the RIF.
rob, that was very illuminating. I've spent almost 3 years (we'll call it 3 years) in the Army and had no idea that AF culture had become like that (re: acquisitions and RIF).