Economics

Kelsey Grammer (Yes, That Kelsey Grammer) on the Stimulus/Bailout/Etc.: It's About Rewarding "Evildoers"

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You love him as Dr. Frasier Crane and the voice of The Simpsons' Sideshow Bob. As Cmdr. Tom Dodge in Down Periscope, not so much.

And check him out in this Conservative News Service interview, where he calls himself a "free enterprise guy" and characterizes mortgage deadbeats and bullshit Wall Street leaders as "evildoers":

"The only problem I see with the stimulus package is that, as a rule, it rewards the people that are evildoers—all of them—and that's a problem for me, personally," Grammer told CNSNews.com at the reopening of the Ford's Theater in Washington, D.C.

"It may not be a popular position to take," said Grammer, "but I honestly believe that the bill is fraught with the idea that those who did the most damage to our country—from the bottom up and the top down—are the ones that are actually going to get the most rewards."

More here.

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  1. Here’s how much I give a fuck about Kelsey Grammar’s opinion:

    (P.S. What kind of a man is named Kelsey, anyway?)

  2. Hmmmmmmm. Projecting are we Taktix? Why do I get the feeling that your first name is Kelly?

  3. PLEASE stop already with the pretending that this is “stimulus” or “bailout” legislation.

    It is payout, pure and simple. It is purchasing a permanent class of people increasingly dependent on government support, thus assuring a political clientele necessary to maintain office and the personal profit of politicians.

  4. Why do fucking conservatives have to go and fuck up actually good statements by using hyperbolic, dumb terms like “evildoers”? Can anyone explain this to me? Wouldn’t using a term like “fat cats” or “defrauders” or even “jerks” be better?

    Using “evildoers”–something Bush has used–is just going to instantly close the minds of a lot of people to the statement. It’s self-defeating.

  5. Naga,

    His given name is Allen. He chose to go by Kelsey.

    His last two movies were Swing Vote and An American Carol. Yikes. He needs to lay off the politics for a while.

  6. Frasier? Sideshow Bob?

    Grammer will be known throughout history as:

    Lamest. Beast. Ever.

  7. Epi,

    If stealing millions of dollars and runining the finincial sector into the ground and then demanding a couple of trillion from honest people to pay for it doesn’t qualify you as an evil doer what does? I don’t see anything wrong with actually calling something what it is.

  8. I thought he was good in Down Periscope.

  9. The point, John, is that it sounds stupid to a lot of people. Yes, one could argue that they qualify as evil, but that’s not the point. The point is to phrase your statement using terms that will appeal to the most people.

    A lot of people hear “evildoer” and think “neocon/Bush term”. That’s not good for your message.

  10. AAAAH SIDESHOW BOB!

    I didn’t realize how close Kelsey Grammer is to the simpsons character. I wonder what his shoe size is…

  11. Fine Epi. How about this

    “The only problem I see with the stimulus package is that, as a rule, it rewards the people that are shit bag no good thieves-all of them-and that’s a problem for me, personally,”

    Is that better?

  12. Ahh…here is a tasty excerpt:

    “Your guilty consciences may force you to vote Democratic, but secretly you yearn for a cold-hearted Republican who’ll cut taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king! You need me, Springfield!”

  13. That is orders of magnitude better, John.

  14. Is that better?

    Sounds good to me.

    Now, a more pressing issue: which was worse: Down Periscope or the Tom Arnold McHale’s Navy? Note that McHale’s Navy had Bruce Campbell and Dean Stockwell.

  15. “The only problem I see with the stimulus package is that, as a rule, it rewards the people that are shit bag no good thieves-all of them-and that’s a problem for me, personally,”

    It actually is way better. Evil-doer, to me at least, sounds like some dimwit is trying to convince somebody even more dimwitted of something of dubious validity. Besides, the term “evil” is very slippery.

  16. Lamar,

    Too true my friend. You can actually change the meaning just by tone and even by . . . typing.

    Examples:

    Evil!

    EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL!

  17. Mchale’s Navy. At least down parascope wasn’t a horrible remake of a screwy but decent 1960s comedy. Nothing worse than Hollywood remaking a movie for no other reason than they can’t think of any new ideas.

  18. Plus, if I am listening to heavy metal, I most certainly want evil to be done.

  19. You know, I didn’t spend six years in evil medical school to be called “Mr. Episiarch”.

  20. Besides, the term “evil” is very slippery.

    Not if you’ve seen An American Carol.

  21. EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL!

    Like the froo-its of the dev-eel?

  22. Mchale’s Navy. At least down parascope wasn’t a horrible remake of a screwy but decent 1960s comedy.

    See, that’s what one thinks at first, especially because DP has Rip Torn, thereby canceling (mostly) the Bruce Campbell advantage; and DP has Harry Dean Stanton, thereby canceling the Dean Stockwell advantage.

    But MN is awful in that special way that actually can make it more fun to watch.

    I guess what I’m saying is what really matters is who you like better: Lauren Holly or Debra Messing.

  23. At least down parascope wasn’t a horrible remake of a screwy but decent 1960s comedy.

    Whoops

    You might try sticking on a technicality John. 1959 isn’t actually the 60’s

    I suggest you “wow” less and “tsk tsk tsk” a little more!

  24. I actually kind of like Grammer’s Down Periscope.

  25. Now, a more pressing issue: which was worse: Down Periscope or the Tom Arnold McHale’s Navy? Note that McHale’s Navy had Bruce Campbell and Dean Stockwell.

    I haven’t seen McHale’s Navy* but any movie with Tom Arnold in it automatically possess surpassing suckitude.

    * I’m not very discerning, but really?

  26. Taktix:

    So you disagree with Grammer?

  27. “Today, i found a fingernail in my soup. Yesterday, it was a Band-Aid!”

    “The Band-Aid was holding the fingernail on, sir.”

  28. any movie with Tom Arnold in it automatically possess surpassing suckitude.

    Well, excepting True Lies, I assume.

  29. Batshit crazy wackoloons:
    President of the United States
    Secretary of Treasury
    FED Chairman
    Congress (both houses)

    Voices of Sanity:
    Ron Paul
    Kelsey Grammer

  30. Down Paracope was a remake of Operation Petticoat? OMFG!! Operation Petticoat is a classic. Down Parascope is defintely worse. What kind of sick bastard remakes a Cary Grant, Tony Curtis movie with Kelsey Grammer?

    And Lauren Holly blows Debra Missing away. I like my women with tits.

  31. Also, Holly went to Sarah Lawerence College. That is like doing four years at a women’s prison. No way was she not a LURD (Lesbian until release date) while there. Hot lesbian stories from college are always a plus.

  32. Re-opening Ford’s Theater in time for Lincoln’s birthday was a nice touch.

  33. Down Periscope is possbily the most accurate submarine movie ever made other than Das Boot. Seriously.

  34. Kolohe,

    What about the Bedford Incident? It is about a destroyer granted, but they are doing ASW in it and it always seemed pretty realistic. I always like Ice Station Zebra to, although I can’t say how accurate it was. Das Boot kicks ass. I have watched it at least 20 times.

  35. Down Periscope is possbily the most accurate submarine movie ever made other than Das Boot.

    But..but…Red October!

    “Some things in here don’t react well to bullets.”

    “Yeah, like me.”

  36. Well, excepting True Lies, I assume.

    True Lies was also infused with surpassing suckitude. I say this even though Jamie Lee Curtis is one of the hottest babes in Tinseltown.

  37. I’ve haven’t seen Ice station zebra in many years, and have never seen the Bedford incident.

    And I am talking about the Kelsey Grammer movie and not the James Garner one. There are more captains like Grammer, and William H Macy for that matter, than like Scott Glenn, Gene Hackman, Clark Gable, or Matthew McConaughey.

  38. Kelsey Grammar is a repulsive pedophile. fuck him.

  39. “And I am talking about the Kelsey Grammer movie and not the James Garner one. There are more captains like Grammer, and William H Macy for that matter, than like Scott Glenn, Gene Hackman, Clark Gable, or Matthew McConaughey.”

    I honestly think farces capture the military and war better than the dramas do. The soldiers in a farce like “Kelly’s Hereos” are a lot closer to real soldiers than the Matt Damon in “Saving Private Ryan”. There are certainly a lot more Frank Burns’s in the Army than there are Tom Hanks. Despite its obvious horror, there is also something innately surreal and comical about going to war.

  40. Pentagon Wars… best Kelsey Grammer role ever. If you haven’t seen it you are missing out on the best depiction of how Washington (both military and otherwise) works ever.

  41. That Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan is superior to Ben Affleck’s is inituitively obvious; that Baldwin’s is also a superior to Harrison Ford’s is less so, but nevertheless true.

  42. DJB,

    I saw that. Seemed pretty good to me, too.

  43. Pentagon Wars…

    A good early performance by the dread pirate roberts, as well.

  44. whoops, now I misplaced that movie in history; about the 80’s but made in the late 90’s.

  45. Kelsey Grammar is a repulsive pedophile. fuck him.

    Why, because the National Enquirer reported that the father and stepmother of an unnamed teenager were claiming that Grammer had sex with their daughter?

    That’s got truth written all over it.

  46. “That Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan is superior to Ben Affleck’s is inituitively obvious; that Baldwin’s is also a superior to Harrison Ford’s is less so, but nevertheless true.”

    He was by far the best Jack Ryan. Ford’s problem was that he was too old. Ryan was supposed to be in his late 30s and Ford was in his 50s when he did the role and not a good 50s either. I heard that the only reason that Balwin didn’t get sequals is that he was such a jerk on the set of Red October that everyone refused to work with him on the sequals.

    Pentegon Wars is a great movie and very accurate. Every high school civics class ought to have to watch it. But, the Bradley really did turn out to be a great vehicle that is still in use today. It is still a great movie though.

  47. That Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan is superior to Ben Affleck’s is inituitively obvious; that Baldwin’s is also a superior to Harrison Ford’s is less so, but nevertheless true.

    Indiana Jones and Han Solo are two of the greatest characters ever, and Ford is good in semi-comedic roles. Deadly serious roles, however, he is terrible in.

    “How dare you, sir!” GROAN

    Plus, Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan was directed by John McTiernan, while Ford’s was by Phillip Noyce and Wolfgang Peterson (whose work sucks other than Das Boot).

  48. “Plus, Alec Baldwin’s Jack Ryan was directed by John McTiernan, while Ford’s was by Phillip Noyce and Wolfgang Peterson (whose work sucks other than Das Boot).”

    Also Baldwin had the best material to work with. Red October is by far the best Clancy book. The books went downhill fast after that one and Red Storm Rising which is surprisingly entertaining. Clancy’s problem was that right when he got famous as a writer, his subject matter, the cold war went away. Had he been 20 years older, he might have had a few more decent books.

  49. Red October… Best submarine movie. Ever.

  50. I thought Pentagon Wars was about the Sgt York PIVADS, which was a complete boondoggle.

  51. Deadly serious roles, however, he is terrible in.

    Blade Runner?

  52. Lothar-G?nther Buchheim’s book that Das Boot was based on is quite good, too.

    Paul,

    No. Das Boot is by far the best. And I like The Hunt for Red October.

    John,

    Clancy should start writing alternative reality books where the Cold War never ended. He kind of did that with Red Storm Rising, if you think about it. Though the Cold War did end with us winning a hot war.

    Episiarch,

    Yes, what about Blade Runner?

  53. “I thought Pentagon Wars was about the Sgt York PIVADS, which was a complete boondoggle.”

    Nope. It is about the Bradey. From the always reliable Wikipedia

    The Pentagon Wars is a 1998 HBO film, starring Kelsey Grammer, Cary Elwes and Richard Schiff, based on a book of the same name (The Pentagon Wars: Reformers Challenge the Old Guard) by Colonel James G. Burton, USAF (retired). The film is a black comedy describing the development of the M2 Bradley fighting vehicle.

  54. Paul, you fool! Das Boot was the best submarine movie! Ever! Don’t make me throw some force lightening your way!

  55. Pro,

    That is a good point about Clancey. Hell, some writer should do that anyway. I work with a few old cold warrior intel types. There was something oddly comforting today about the days when you got up every day and went toe to toe with the Russkies. Maybe that is because we know now how everything turned out.

  56. Ah. Pentagon Wars. Awesome. Especially when all those sheep died in Bradley. Terrible but Teh AWESome!

  57. Burton forced live fire testing and, in the end, a major redesign of the Bradley. Which is why it actually is in use today.

    Naga,

    You mean this kind of Force lightning?

  58. Died in the Bradley. In the Bradley. Fuck! My grammar and spelling is hovering around Lefiti territory.

  59. There was something oddly comforting today about the days when you got up every day and went toe to toe with the Russkies.

    Give Pushkin a chance, he’s working on it.

  60. Pro Lib,

    Yes. But only in reference to the last picture and caption.

  61. Naga,

    Bradley, Tennessee?

  62. Naga,

    Take care. That one totally distressed the Viking Moose. He has a particular aversion to Grease. As do I, for that matter.

  63. Anyone know what Bea Arthur thinks about carbon taxes? Because that would be equally interesting.

  64. tgb1000,

    No, that would be vastly more interesting. I mean, dude, she’s Maude.

  65. I picked up Red October again recently (I first read it in 9th or 10th grade) Knowing what I know now, it’s almost unreadable. The movie is still enjoyable, even though it takes star-trek like liberties with the laws of physics.

    Without remorse is also still a rather entertaining book, but I no nothing about vilgilante justice against baltimore drug gangs, nor vietnam pow rescues by snakeeaters, so that helps.

  66. Pro Liberate,

    The Bradley was originally made with aluminum armor. The vehicle takes a hit and POW! Toxic smoke from the aluminum armor burning kills everyone in the vehicle. Thus the basis of why Burton filled the vehicle with sheep to prove it to higher ups. One of the reasons that Burton was all but thrown out of the Air Force.

  67. Why, because the National Enquirer reported that the father and stepmother of an unnamed teenager were claiming that Grammer had sex with their daughter?

    That’s got truth written all over it.

    Even if true, sounds like she was old enough for him to not qualify as a pedophile.

  68. Pro Lib,

    You typed the Grease dialogue there. Not me.

  69. Naga,

    Ah, but you cited it with approval. Even now, the Viking Moose and his close friend, the Techno Viking are looting and rampaging their way to Mississippi.

  70. Pro Lib,

    Dhex is coming too? I humbly request my shunning be lifted that I may acquire allies as needed.

  71. You are unshunned.

    Whether or not dhex is the Techno Viking has not been definitely proven. Please let us know once the Techno Viking has arrived to chastise you. . .but before your untimely demise, if any.

  72. No, that would be vastly more interesting. I mean, dude, she’s Maude.

    Dude, she’s Fembot!

  73. Pro Lib,

    I can deal with the Techno Viking. I will simply play techno in the middle of the street. I’ll be the pied piper of techno vikings. The trouble will VM. I’m thinking of simply putting up salt licks all around my neighbors house as an early warning.

  74. Will be. The trouble will be VM. Fuck!!!

  75. I didn’t know that Bea Arthur was in ROTJ as well as The Christmas Special that Shan’t be Named.

    Naga,

    Just hand the Techno Viking a bottle of water–works every time. VM is weakened by the presence of Mexican dancing llamas.

  76. Naga – Bacon covered Grace Park blow up dolls. Get a couple and you’ll be safe from the Moose for decades.

  77. Pro,

    The more I think about it, the more you are right about Clancy and alternative history. He is not without talent. He explains technical matters and action really well. Had he wanted to, he could have been to submarine novels what O’Brian is to Napoleonic sail novels. Instead, he never understood his gifts and limitations and has written a lot of crap since the end of the cold war.

  78. The beauty of alternative histories is that you can make up lots of stuff without being wrong. He should like that, and I bet he’d enjoy changing around the present day. So would I, though I’d leave out a new or continued Cold War in my vision ?

  79. I didn’t know that Bea Arthur was in ROTJ as well as The Christmas Special that Shan’t be Named.

    CURSE YOU Pro Liberate! That can never be unseen again.

  80. He explains technical matters and action really well. Had he wanted to, he could have been to submarine novels what O’Brian is to Napoleonic sail novels.

    If you’re saying that the Aubrey-Maturin novels are as technically accurate as Red October (or Red Storm Rising), I have very much reduced my appreciation for O’Brian’s work.

    Clancy’s technobabble sounds nice, but it’s no more accurate than Geordi reversely the polarity on every damned thing. (my gut impression is that O’Brian was quite historically and technically accurate, just from what I personally know of small boat sailing)

  81. Warren,

    Just like that Christmas special. No wonder Lucas declared it an unspecial. Nope, never happened.

    Kolohe,

    What about the Hornblower novels?

  82. What about the Hornblower novels?

    Never read them (nor seen any of the movies). Books about a guy named Hornblower in the middle of a ton of seamen? I’m not that cosmotarian. 🙂

  83. Rock on, Kelsey!

  84. As a former bubblehead, I can say with complete honesty that Down Periscope is the most accurate submarine movie. Ever.

  85. Why do fucking conservatives have to go and fuck up actually good statements by using hyperbolic, dumb terms like “evildoers”?

    Right. People will take you much more seriously when you say “fuck” a lot.

  86. It is evil what has been done to our country and economy.
    About time it gets said.

    We are rewarding evil.

  87. Kolohe-

    “star-trek like liberties with the laws of physics?”

    Perhaps we should not assume that the laws of physics apply to the entirety of the final frontier?

  88. I’m about as interested in that as I am in what you buttfucking liberal assholes think about anything.

  89. Paul,

    No. Das Boot is by far the best. And I like The Hunt for Red October.

    Pro L,

    Disagree. Das Boot is the most realistic, foreign language historic mini-series drama that takes place on a submarine.

    As a long, long time submarine geek, Red October did a better job of satisfying my need for submarine ‘stuff’, than Das Boot did. Das Boot does a great job of telling us how squalid and terrifying life was on a WWII era U-Boat. Red October was about Submarines!

  90. “Clancy’s technobabble sounds nice, but it’s no more accurate than Geordi reversely the polarity on every damned thing. (my gut impression is that O’Brian was quite historically and technically accurate, just from what I personally know of small boat sailing)”

    That is completely unfair to Clancy. Red October is pretty good technically in a lot of ways. Could he have been better? Yes. But is not like he was writing Star Wars or something.

    O’Brian is incredibaly accurate. You want to know what it was like to be in Nelson’s Navy, read O’Brian. O’Brian is pretty much the gold standard of technical and historic accuracy.

  91. Down Periscope is the greatest movie ever to star Rob Schneider.

  92. No love for Crimson Tide on the submarine movie lists? Racists. 😉

  93. “Why do I get the feeling that your first name is Kelly?”

    Actually, his first name is Jessica.

  94. Episiarch

    I find it sad that you argue about words while beign screwed by “fat cats”, “defrauders”, and “jerks”; or whatever you want to call them. With brains like yours it is no wonder our country is getting screwed.
    If you put half as much time into opposing criminals as you did into what words others use chose I woudl feel much better about our future.

  95. Red October is pretty good technically in a lot of ways.

    I wound up just short of being qualified for command of a US nuclear submarine. Trust me, it’s not.

  96. Hey. All you guys, including that first moke, who talk about how little they care about what Kelsey Grammar thinks.

    Um…you’re *here* aren’t you? If you didn’t give a crap, why’d you click the link to this site?

    Just to leave snide comments?

    Well good for you. Don’t you feel all superior and shit now?

  97. “Re-opening Ford’s Theater in time for Lincoln’s birthday was a nice touch.”
    – – – – –

    Ultimately a waste, though. I mean, all those people standing there in the dark giggling and shushing each other and bumping into things, all ready for the big surprise “Happy Birthday!!” shout for like an hour, and then finally that guy from security came down and told them that he was dead and they had to leave . . . It got better when the band finally showed up, but it was looking pretty grim for a while.

  98. “I wound up just short of being qualified for command of a US nuclear submarine.”
    – – – –

    Just how short do you actually have to be to be too short for a submarine?

  99. My dad worked on the Sgt. York system. It worked as advertised, sensational media reporting notwithstanding. However, it became obsolete when air launched anti-tank systems outranged the 40mm guns the system was equipped with.

  100. Good for Kelsey, calling it what it is.

    It’s immoral to enter into contracts you can’t fulfill. It’s evil to ask the taxpayers to make up the difference.

  101. “Evildoers”? Really? I suppose Grammer was one of those folks insisting we refer to suicide bombers as “homicide bombers”, too.

    It’s just silly to use such loaded terms. What it really does is water down those words, and create a kind of “outrage fatigue” over the long haul. Especially with folks like those he refers to, who were largely ignored when the economy was on a roll and nobody was particularly interested in harshing the buzz. Their vilification is mostly a result in a change in fortune rather than their evil-doing.

  102. Wow. Why are liberals so full of hatred and anger?

  103. There was something oddly comforting today about the days when you got up every day and went toe to toe with the Russkies. Maybe that is because we know now how everything turned out.

    It’s probably due to the fact that we know how it turns out. Our current worst case scenario is that our enemies get a small nuke and take out a city. Our worst case scenario during the Cold War was the end of the majority of human life due to MAD and the ensuing nuclear winter. And don’t toss out the “Ruskies were more rational than the current crop” bull. Kruschev banged his shoe at the UN. Using your shoe as a gavel = crazy.

  104. “Um…you’re *here* aren’t you? If you didn’t give a crap, why’d you click the link to this site?”

    Good point. I’m pretty sure that Taktix? has never commented here before, and I have to wonder why such a person, like Taktix?, who probably doesn’t read most of the articles here (if any), would feel such a drive to comment on this story. I personally believe that if you are a first time commenter, like Taktix?, then you have no business chiming in with negativity. After all, why would regular a commenter here, which Taktix? is not, bother to click on the link like Taktix? did?

  105. Using your shoe as a gavel = crazy.

    But using your shoe as a phone – A-OK!

  106. Using your shoe as a political statement = heroic!

  107. For the sincere truth seekers go to this link and see the big club that you are not in.

  108. Well, anybody who speaks German can’t be evil!

  109. Amen, Kelsey.

    I loved him in Down Periscope, too.

  110. 60% I think that says it all.

    If we left taxes they way they are and simply forced everyone to pay a seperate bill and write a seperate check for the taxes they pay each and evey time they got taxed people might notice how much they are actually giving government. Just writing checks to all the with holdings from your paycheck would probably do it. But I mean state sales tax everything, everytiime you bought something, direct payment nothing combined for their ease of collecting.

    60 fucking %!!!

  111. Libertarians and Scientologists, together at last.

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