The Friday Political Thread: Countdown to Dow 1000

The Week in Brief
- John McCain and Barack Obama got interrupted by Tom Brokaw, a lot.
- Connecticut destroyed marriage and Western civilization.
- George McGovern joined the vast right-wing conspiracy.
- John McCain really, really wanted you to care about Bill Ayers.
- So, do you own stocks? Oh, too bad.
- Bob Barr started looking better amid the financial ruins. (And the latest Georgia polls show the state tightening up again.)

Below the Fold
- Robert Stacy McCain says last rites for John McCain's campaign.
- Norman Mailer muddles through the politics of the 20th century (and a bit of the 21st).
- The Open Debate Coalition demands a non-terrible Obama-McCain face-off.
- Sean Quinn pummels Michael Barone (who weirdly asserts that Obama's ground game is no better than Howard Dean's).
- Some smart people (including Kerry Howley!) tell McObama what to say.

Ian Anderson's got Politics 'n' Prog taken care of this week. I think he's previewing the next McCain ad about Obama.

Comments

[Elemenope]

Still pissed at Connecticut for being faster at doing something sensible than Rhode Island.

For the record, that has never happened before. (Yeah that's right, Epi. Suck it.)

[BDB]

Georgia is in danger of going blue? Really?

[Neu Mejican]

Jethro Tull.

Seems like Thick as a Brick would have been a better choice.

your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick

Except, maybe they do now.
Or something.

[Neu Mejican]

Politics and punk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wr06WXKjEE

Seems like this is what we are all doing these days...

[joe]

BDB,

No, not really, but Saxby Chambliss might lose.

[SIV]

I'm predicting the Libertarian Party candidate for US Senator in GA, Allen Buckley, will receive more votes in the State than Bob Barr .
Saxby Chambliss is going down over the bailout.
He is running ads trying to justify his vote.

[TallDave]

Nothing from Hit'n'Run on the Mark Steyn verdict?

Kind of a big deal for anyone interested in free speech.

[SIV]

Damn joe! We hit it at the same time.

[BDB]

Is the guy who is running against him a blue dog dem?

[Kolohe]

Georgia is in danger of going blue? Really?

Saxby voting for the bailout po'ed a lot of people. Making his senate race as close as it's been. But for the pres, per 538 there's one poll showing McCain by only 3, but I think thats an outlier. One two days earlier still had him at 7, and most of the rest are in that 7-9 range.

The wildcard would of course be a phenomenal African American turnout coupled with some serious poaching by native son* Barr.

*not literally, born in Iowa and moved all over the world as a kid because of his father's engineering job.

[Orange Line Special goes ez on]

1. This is a must-read post: How to Defeat Barack Obama. If someone doesn't back that plan, they either want BHO to win or they really don't care. GOP hacks should especially see the second update.

2. The Open Debate Coalition is a sham.

3. The NAU is just for conspiracy theorists, there are no plans for anything like it.

4. BHO lied yet again:
24ahead.com/blog/archives/008127.html
He was also a member of a far-left party:
24ahead.com/blog/archives/008119.html

5. Reason's fellow travelers respond to the story that Reason didn't cover (AFAIK). Consider that a preview of how Reason's fellow travelers will help them achieve their libruhtarian aims. Whether you want to call Reason's fellow travelers fascists, Stalinists, or just those pining for the glory days of East Germany is left to you.

6. The U.N.'s Institute International de l'Anti-Proggue a recommendu this antidote for all prog-related symptoms.

[Vanessa]

Hey Weigel, as an aside, how about that Jethro Tull song about the dawning of the new ice age? Have you ever dragged that out?

It's downright prescient.

"Something's On The Move"

She wore a black tiara
rare gems upon her fingers
and she came from distant waters
where northern lights explode
to celebrate the dawning
of the new wastes of winter
gathering royal momentum
on the icy road.
With chill mists swirling
like petticoats in motion
sighted on horizons
for ten thousand years
the lady of the ice sounds
a deathly distant rumble
to Titanic-breaking children lost
in melting crystal tears.

Capturing black pieces
in a glass-fronted museum
the white queen rolls
on the chessboard of the dawn
squeezing through the valleys
pausing briefly in the corries
the Ice-Mother mates
and a new age is born.

Driving all before her
un-stoppable, un-straining
her cold creaking mass
follows reindeer down.
Thin spreading fingers seek
to embrace the still-warm bundles
that huddle on the doorsteps
of a white London Town.

Oh, sunshine --- take me now away from here
I'm a needle on a spiral in a groove.
And the turntable spins
as the last waltz begins
And the weather-man says
something's on the move.

[SIV]

I'd call Jim Marin a liberal, not a blue dog.
His African American opponent in the primary,Vernon Jones, campaigned that Martin was too liberal for GA.

I think Buckley will benefit from the pure anti-Chambliss vote.Some people just won't mark the Senate portion of their ballot.

[Kolohe]

Is the guy who is running against him a blue dog dem?

Pretty much. Vietnam Vet (as an Lt after law school), was in the house of Rep for most of the 80's and 90's. Cursorily he's similar to Webb of Virginia. But is probably close to Max Cleland.

[BDB]

Webb is somewhere to the right of a liberal but the left of a blue dog, I'd say.

[Kolohe]

I'll defer to SIV; he was already gone from Congress and I was further downstate (in Saxby's district) when I was living there.

[Just Plain Brian]

Ian Anderson's got Politics 'n' Prog taken care of this week

Whaddaya mean "Prog"? That's the group that beat both Metallica and Jane's Addiction to win the Grammy for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Vocal or Instrumental.

Jethro Tull even said, "The flute is a heavy metal instrument."

[SIV]

But is probably close to Max Cleland.

Jim Martin is, like Cleland, more of a Liberal.

[joe]

McCain's stepping back from the brink.

A woman at a town hall says she's afraid of Barack Obama because he's an Arab, and McCain corrected her, and said he's a good American and a good family man.

The crowd booed.

[Elemenope]

The crowd booed.

The problem with unleashing the hounds is, when they've done their thing, it's hard to get them back before they run amok amongst the spoils.

[yarrrrr]

Change you can believe in...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2847/obamaacornox5.jpg

[J sub D]

My brother bought me the Aqualung LP for Xmas when I was a 16 or 17. My mother took one look at the cover art and said

That's disgusting!

One of the ten best Rock n Roll albums of all time.

[Ali]

I've been gone for like 6 months and that Orange Line dude still keeps posting? I guess some things never change. So, how's every one doing?

[Just Plain Brian]

One of the ten best Rock n Roll albums of all time.

No argument on that.

But let's get down to arguing - what are the other nine?

[Elemenope]

I've been gone for like 6 months and that Orange Line dude still keeps posting? I guess some things never change.

He runs on Energizer. Nobody's told him they make them there batteries (and the bunnies they come in) in other countries.

So, how's every one doing?

It's crazy season. I'm doin' OK. What have you been up to?

[Kolohe]

Reason's fellow travelers respond to the story that Reason didn't cover (AFAIK).

The story is about a country detaining and kicking out foreigners. Sounds right up your alley.

I'm trying to figure out why Corsi went to Kenya to promote an anti-Obama book. That seems both economically and politically useless and counterproductive.

[J sub D]

But let's get down to arguing - what are the other nine?

In no particular order
Who's Next (Who)
Cheap Thrills (Big Brother & Co)
Morrison Hotel (Doors)
Surrealistic Pillow (JA)
The White Album (Beatles)
Music from the Big Pink (Band)
Full House (J. Geils)
Innervisions (S. Wonder)
Babe Ruth (Babe Ruth)

YMMV.

[Neu Mejican]

Hey Ali,

Why the hiatus?

I recently ran across Omar Khorshid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opcW51rdLk0
http://direct-waves.blogspot.com/2007/07/omar-khorshid-and-his-guitar-rhythms.html

He's Egyptian, I believe.
Ever hear of him?
I think he kicks ass.

Welcome back.

Neu

[Brian24]

I was always pretty partial to Wind-Up:

When I was young and they packed me off to school
and taught me how not to play the game,
I didn't mind if they groomed me for success,
or if they said that I was a fool.
So I left there in the morning
with their God tucked underneath my arm --
their half-assed smiles and the book of rules.
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said -- I'm not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):
before I'm through I'd like to say my prayers --
I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
Well you can excomunicate me on my way to Sunday school
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines --
how do you dare tell me that I'm my Father's son
when that was just an accident of Birth.
I'd rather look around me -- compose a better song
`cos that's the honest measure of my worth.
In your pomp and all your glory you're a poorer man than me,
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear.
I don't believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong --
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

[Kwix]

I've been gone for like 6 months and that Orange Line dude still keeps posting?

Ali,
Teh LoneWhackJob won't stop posting till all the brown furiners are dead. Know that and be not surprised in another 6 months when he changes his handle again.

Doing good, you?

[Jon H]

"The problem with unleashing the hounds is, when they've done their thing, it's hard to get them back before they run amok amongst the spoils."

Yeah. And it sucks when you have to talk your supporters down, thus voiding your own scary attack ads.

If your supporters just keep their shit together, this doesn't happen.

[Neu Mejican]

JsubD,

what are the other nine?

I'll stick to 5 and make my list albums that are less well known.

No particular order

Gallon Drunk - You, the night, and the music
Chrome- Half Machine Lip Moves
Can- Ege Bamyasi
Brian Eno - Here Come the Warm Jets
Betty Davis - Betty Davis

[J sub D]

Let's face it.
McCain ran a gigacrap campaign. No ideas, no charisma, not even a decent "attack the brown guy with a funny name" strategy.

He makes Bob Dole look like Ron Reagan.
I hate the SOB antway. Good effin' riddance. One good thing, he has a long lead time for that concession speech.

[Neu Mejican]

JsubD,

If you track down and listen to that list, I promise you will kick at least 2 albums off your list to make room.

[Brian24]

Lonewacko,

I love when the right starts talking about the MSM rigging the election by not covering certain things. It's the mirror image of the left's "Right-wing conspiracy." It's impossible that people might just legitimately disagree with you, right? It must be that they've been hoodwinked by the media.

It's the right-wing equivalent of "I don't understand how Nixon could have won. Nobody I know voted for him."

[Orange Line Special keeps a lo]

Kolohe writes: The story is about a country detaining and kicking out foreigners.

No, the story is about a country "losing" paperwork in order to silence a journalist. What sort of "libertarian" or "liberal" could support that?

Well, let me answer that for you.

You can see examples of "liberals" supporting it at the link I posted earlier. Especially see the first DK thread; I didn't look at the others but I'm sure they're just as bad.

Bear in mind, those are the people to whom Reason is trying to give power. Why is it that the "libertarians" at Reason are always trying to help people who are anything but libertarian obtain even more power?

(For the backstory, including why he was there, see this.)

[SIV]

Neu,

I was going to stay out of this but as Eno's Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy is in my "top 5" I'll say it is better than HCTWJs.

[D.A. Ridgely]

Norman Mailer's still alive?
.
Really?
.
No, come on. Really?

[J sub D]

I finally got registered at LGF. I don't know why I bothered, but maybe pointing out that they are bed wetters about OMG! IslamoFascistNaziJihadTerrorists will be amusing.

[Just Plain Brian]

A top ten list is always tough, because it quickly becomes about who to leave off, but I'd want to at least include -

Velvet Underground, "Loaded"
Sonic Youth, "Daydream Nation"
Zappa, "Joe's Garage"
David Bowie, "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"
Ween, "The Mollusk"

[J sub D]

If you track down and listen to that list, I promise you will kick at least 2 albums off your list to make room.

I'll try to. Albums must be listened to at least twice before deciding they are crap. They must be listened to many times before deciding they are teh awesome.

Give "Other Voices" (post Morrison Doors) a spin some time. Me and 6 other guys bought it.

[Kolohe]

No, the story is about a country "losing" paperwork in order to silence a journalist. What sort of "libertarian" or "liberal" could support that?

Mr. Kelly, you're the same dude that's always complaining about various persons or groups exercising their 1st amendment rights being affiliated with TheMexicanGovernment and attempting to exert ForeignInfluence on our own. A bit of crocodile tears, n'est pas?

[dbcooper]

That bass player's outfit is awesome. They need to do a Metalocalypse episode about the Tull.

[J sub D]

I know what you mean. I left off all of Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, Johnny Winter, Hendrix, The Temptations ...

Ask me next week and my top ten will likely have about 40-50% correlation.

[Kolohe]

Sorry I can't engage with the music conversation, my ipod is almost entirely one-hit wonders from alt-rock of the 90's. I'm a man of limited wealth, and no taste.

[Just Plain Brian]

J sub D, this may be heresy to say, but I think my favorite Clapton disc is the one that comes in the Layla Sessions box set, where the songs are just labeled Jam I - Jam V. I could listen to that all day long!

[Elemenope]

I'll stick to 5 and make my list albums that are less well known.

Elitist!!!

---

But seriously, what complicates the "Top 10" lists are bands who have great songs spread evenly over relatively weak albums. I'd like to put Talking Heads on my list, but do you put Remain in Light or Speaking in Tongues on the list? If you were able to just pull the best tracks off both, the resulting album *easily* belongs in the Top 10. But neither album alone does.

[dbcooper]

Can- Ege Bamyasi

Soon Over Babaluma and Tago Mago are better IMHO, but Mother Sky was the best track they ever made.

[SIV]

Kolohe,

Limited wealth? that must suck in HI.

[BDB]

Hows LGF dealing with the impending loss of McCain, J Sub?

[Brandybuck]

Bob Barr started looking better amid the financial ruins.

Is there any hope at all Barr will get enough of a percentage to keep the major parties awake at night. I'm hoping for 8% but I'll count myself lucky if he gets 2%.

But if he ends up with the usual 0.5% while douches and turds battle over how fast they can tank the economy, I might just beat myself to death to end it all.

[BDB]

Breaking News: Palin Broke State Law, According to Troopergate Report.

[Brandybuck]

LoneWacko: If you think the NAU is real, but your money where you mouth is. I will bet one (1) ounce of GOLD that there will be no NAU or Amero by this time next year. Yeah, I might beat myself to death in anguish over the election, but if you take my bet I'll make sure my estate will pay out anyway.

[Elemenope]

Breaking News: Palin Broke State Law, According to Troopergate Report.

Hmm. On one hand, the committee that had to decide whether to release the report was 10 GOPers and 5 Donkeys, so it would be hard to spin this as a *partisan* hit job. On the other hand, I honestly don't think this will matter much to the faithful.

[BDB]

Elemenope--

The "faithful" consists of OLS and TallDave at this point.

[Kolohe]

Kolohe,

Limited wealth? that must suck in HI.

I was just commenting to a co-worker today regarding someone on fox news saying "what about the middle class"

People considers 'Middle class' is anywhere from about 15k above what they make to 15K below. It doesn't really matter what they actually make.

When I say limited wealth, I mean in comparison to say Oprah (who has a nice spread on Maui) Getting COLA's and other location expenses I do pretty darn good for a dude with a public university bachelors. 6 figure gross. Just my slice of the 612 billion. Arigatoo gozaimasu, btw.

[Kolohe]

Breaking News: Palin Broke State Law, According to Troopergate Report.

Yeah, but it's only Alaska State Law. For everyone else, that's like violating your HOA rules.

[Elemenope]

The "faithful" consists of OLS and TallDave at this point.

BDB, my point, more broadly, is that the faithful is all they have left, so it won't hurt them any.

[BDB]

Got it. Yeah, they're toast. Seriously, his campaign just fucking sucks. Mondale ran a better campaign.

[TrickyVic]

""""On one hand, the committee that had to decide whether to release the report was 10 GOPers and 5 Donkeys, so it would be hard to spin this as a *partisan* hit job.""""

What??? They have been spinning it as a partisan hit job. The investigation was soooooo partisan Palin had to release her own report.

[Elemenope]

TrickyVic --

I meant, hard to spin in a way that someone with two braincells to rub together might be fooled.

If a committee whose Republican members outnumber Democratic members 2-to-1 sees fit to release a report condemning her actions as illegal, I see no way that Palin can spin powerfully enough to defeat that simple fact.

[BDB]

What say you, SIV?

[Ali]

Hey Elemenope, Neu, kwix!

Been behaving myself. Um, plus, I've been try to avoid the news (and the blogs they come in).

But it's a pleasure to see that Lone is still here and that the Mexicans haven't taken his job (assuming Lone had one to begin with).

Does dondero still please everyone with his presence here?

[Elemenope]

Um, plus, I've been try to avoid the news (and the blogs they come in).

Very wise of you. Crazy season seems about to give way to scary season.

But it's a pleasure to see that Lone is still here and that the Mexicans haven't taken his job (assuming Lone had one to begin with).

Does dondero still please everyone with his presence here?

No, he's fled the scene. Perhaps his well of "Libertarian Republicans" (already a cryptozoologist's wet dream) has run dry and he has given in to despair.

[John C jackson]

Well, you know. The Republicans hate Palin because she is a Maverick who took on corruption in her own party...

[BDB]

JCJ--

Yeah. Weak.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"On the other hand, I honestly don't think this will matter much to the faithful."

Palin could shoot Matlock in the face and it wouldn't make a dent in her popularity for those who love her.

The numbers (from realclearpolitics.com) look bad for McCain (he's losing FL now along with NM, CO, VA), though I still think we can not conclude there will not be a Wilder/Bradley effect reappear in this unique race.

I love these ads from the RNC or Rightchange trying to tag the bailout on Obama. You know, the bailout that their guy suspended his campaign in order to rush to DC to get passed.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Palin probably has more enemies among the Alaska GOP than among the Alaska Dems.

Having said that, this thing with the Trooper is mighty stinky.

[BDB]

MNG I can't find a McCain/Palin sign within a 20 mile radius in a white suburb.

[BDB]

They're so scared of the polls they have to send Palin to West Virginia.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

McCain doesn't seem to even have a pretense on contesting this election on issues now. All of his ads are "Obama is a scary guy with shadowy things in his past." Obama's ads are all "here's what I want to do about health care and energy policy."

Some non-McCain groups (NRA) are challenging Obama on guns, but their ad is pretty misleading and it'll probably be overreaching. It's silly because this is an area someone like me thinks McCain simply has the better record and should just list it plainly with no hyperbole.

If I were McCain I would make ads highlighting his standing up to Bush on torture, Gitmo, management of Iraq, etc.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I saw WV is now in play. It's really bad news for McCain.

Palin should have played the moderate. Her red-meat response, in fairness somewhat in response to liberal attacks, was the wrong way.

[Mike Laursen]

I've been gone for like 6 months and that Orange Line dude still keeps posting?

Not only is Lonewacko still posting, his posts for the last few weeks have been way into off-the-meds schizophrenic territory. I think it's because of the upcoming election and Reason's purported support for Obama.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

McCain's ads now end with "Change is Coming." The poor fucker is just engaged in such blatant me-tooism at this point...

Obama is now leading McCain in VA of all places by an RCP average of 5%.

I will point out that Mark Warner leads his Senate opponent by a RCP average of 26! So my point about how a centrist like Warner would have been a better candidate seems validated...

[BDB]

Again, take a gooooooooooooooood long look at OLS. He's whats left of the Party of Lincoln/Reagan. The Democrats are now the more "normal" Party in this country.

[BDB]

MNG--

He's leading in North Carolina by three and within the MOE in Georgia.

PA? He's up an average of +13!

[brotherben]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081010/pl_politico/14471;_ylt=AoArPi4i77PZ1YLmel_EmfVh24cA

This is a nice article on Palin's "judgement" in cutting some of the pork from the state budget.

[Elemenope]

Palin could shoot Matlock in the face and it wouldn't make a dent in her popularity for those who love her.

Palin could shoot Matlock with a flintlock and English professors would still hate her, to say nothing of poets.

They're so scared of the polls they have to send Palin to West Virginia.

That's mighty far from Alaska. Almost, like, Moscow far.

[BDB]

And MNG, Warner is +26 because Gilmore is a piece of shit. Even John Warner is about to come out and endorse Mark Warner over Gilmore.

[brotherben]

If somebody wants ta click on my name and send me the html thinggs, I will learn how to do links the new way on this seriously hotrodded vic20.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

BDB
Yes Gilmore is a piece of shit (after nearly ruining the VA budget the guy should have crawled into a hole, but instead he runs for higher offices!), but that immense lead is part Gilmore=piece of shit and part Warner=political gold.

If Warner were the candidate for POTUS he could wax about his successful business career when asked questions about economic troubles. And 10% of the US population would not think he is a secret Muslim...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I've always wondered how people do the links within the posts too...

[Gov. Sarah Palin]

"I've always wondered how people do the links within the posts too..."

I've always thought it was the work of witches, which are now barred from bothering me by the power of Jesus.

[SIV]

The Palin Alaska thing is meaningless to McCain's chances and her political future.

MNG correctly points out she has more GOP political enemies in the Alaska State legislature than Dem ones. When she "cleaned up corruption" it was Repubs she was fucking over.
I predict that after McCain's likely at this point loss that her Governor approval ratings
remain/return high.

[SIV]

MNG,

What the hell is your PhD in? You should be able to figure out simple html in an hour or so.

[Just Plain Brian]

No need for email, here's how you do links in your messages:

<a href="http://LinkGoesHere.com">Name of Link Here-Can be same as Link adddress, if you want</a>

[BDB]

". And 10% of the US population would not think he is a secret Muslim..."

The wingnut base would find out something else about him to think crazy shit about.

Remember Vince Foster?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"her Governor approval ratings
remain/return high."

I think they've already fallen to 60%. Hard to keep 80% in a state where only about 20% of the electorate are Republicans when you are the front woman for a smear campaign.

Before her pick Palin was a well liked moderate who intentionally avoided controversial actions (like abortion bills) and was most associated with her public infrastructure project. McCain's campaign should have tried to stick with that.

What frightened liberals was that FIRST speech she gave when picked where she sounded all moderate and reaching out to Democratic voters (mentioning her husband's union membership, her bi-partisan ventures, her shout out to HRC's campaign). Sarah Palin's right wing attack dog gimmick effectively neuters her ability to win the independents McCain needed.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"You should be able to figure out simple html in an hour or so."

SIV, I am a very, very, lazy man in some ways...

[BDB]

SIV, if Georgia goes blue, will you feel weird living in a "blue" state? Even if this happens because of Barr?

[Don the libertarian Democrat]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/world/asia/11china.html?hp

Who Says Capitalism Is Dying?
Some good news:

"BEIJING - Chinese leaders are expected to allow peasants to buy or sell land-use rights for the first time, a step that could draw hundreds of millions of farmers more firmly into the city-centered market economy.
The new policy, which is being discussed this weekend by Communist Party leaders and could be announced within days, would be the biggest economic reform in many years and would mark another significant departure from the system of collective ownership and state control that China built after the 1949 revolution."

Read on.

Who says capitalism is dying?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I think a lot of the right thought McCain was being too nice to Obama and they urged him to attack more. Now that he is behind he is doing this, but man, it just doesn't fit McCain. McCain's selling point is his integrity.

I went to this site where you could answer 20-30 questions about issues and it would then tell you how much in agreement you were with the candidates. I was 70% in agreement with Obama and like 45% in agreement with McCain, but I remember being very surprised because I have always liked McCain. I remember thinking that, if not for my wish to punish the GOP for the past eight years I think I would vote for McCain, even though I disagree with him on more things. He just has that kind of integrity. He has to sell that.

[BakedPenguin]

I don't always agree with Neu Mejican's word on music, but Chrome's Meet You in the Subway is a great song.

J sub D, looks like you only have one album from past the 1970's there. Um, there have been things happening since then...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

I was like 55% in agreement with Ron Paul btw and like 35% with Dennis Kucinich.

Mostly I agreed with Kucinich that his wife is smoking hot.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

His wife is smoking hot

[Just Plain Brian]

I went to this site where you could answer 20-30 questions about issues and it would then tell you how much in agreement you were with the candidates. I was 70% in agreement with Obama and like 45% in agreement with McCain

I went to one of those sites about a year ago, and based on my answers McCain was pretty high on the list, but when I read the breakdown of the positions it said that McCain supported medical marijuana, and this was after he had made a statement to the effect that California voters were wrong, and shouldn't be allowed to decide the issue for themselves.

[Kolohe]

Again, take a gooooooooooooooood long look at OLS. He's whats left of the Party of Lincoln/Reagan. The Democrats are now the more "normal" Party in this country.

I wouldn't go that far. Lonewacko is a single issue Lou Dobbsian 'independent'. Immigration is an issue which applies strain on the coalitions on both major parties. Although the rift is more visible in the Republicans, it is there below the surface for the Democrats.

[brotherben]

jpbrian thanks.

[Ah, Clem]

BEIJING - Chinese leaders are expected to allow peasants to buy or sell land-use rights for the first time, a step that could draw hundreds of millions of farmers more firmly into the city-centered market economy.

That's not the only innovation from China...

http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12342509

Who'd have ever thought the commies would evolve into free-market Christian conservatives?

Now, if they're smart enough to keep the libertarians out, they might actually have the foundation of an actual free society...

[SIV]

it is there below the surface for the Democrats

Not really below the surface.To generalize: Blacks don't like Mexicans (and visa versa).
The technology workers who rail against H1b visas-"legal immigration"-seem overwhelmingly liberal. I expect if we really are going into another great depression there will be a lot of political pressure to reduce both the flow and numbers of illegal immigrants and the Dem controlled government will listen.

[Mr. Chartreuse]

I wouldn't go that far. Lonewacko is a single issue Lou Dobbsian 'independent'. Immigration is an issue which applies strain on the coalitions on both major parties. Although the rift is more visible in the Republicans, it is there below the surface for the Democrats.

The funny thing is, at least when it comes to the cultural side of things, Hispanics should have been a natural constituency for the GOP, but the GOP decided not to court them. There are exceptions, like Jeb Bush, but that wasn't where the party really wanted to go.

[SIV]

BDB,

GA won't go "blue".If Barr somehow could draw enough votes to give the state to Obama the bulk of those votes would be "hard right".Georgia is a more conservative State than many of our elected Republicans.

[brotherben]

If there's a full scale depression, folks are gonna be running for the southern border in droves. The mountains of mexico will be much safer than the streets of L.A.

[brotherben]

here is the official report on the Palin hearing. Page 8 is where the findings start if anyone needs help sleeping.

[Just Plain Brian]

You're welcome, brotherben.

If you're running windows, you might want to check out a free program called Texter, because it will allow you to automate the typing of the links.

I'm not entirely sure why, but if I type out the link code from scratch it works correctly, but if I try to copy-and-paste it into the comment box it will screw up the link, and Texter can save you a lot of typing in the long run.

[Ali]

No, he's fled the scene. Perhaps his well of "Libertarian Republicans" (already a cryptozoologist's wet dream) has run dry and he has given in to despair.

Good. One is down. If I disappear for 6 more months and come back, is there hope that the other dude will down too?

[Ali]

NM,

Omar Khorshid's name sounds familiar. But not much else.

[SIV]

As this is the "open thread" does anyone have an opinion on which firearm I should buy now that won't be so easily and cheaply available after 2 years of DemocRAT Party rule?
I'll probably at least pick up an AR-15 lower receiver. I'd be none to happy if they decided to make assembling a complete rifle illegal.

I know a .50 BMG weapon is at the top of any ban list but they are expensive, ban may be confiscation, and it is not easy to find a good place to play with one around here.

[Ali]

Not only is Lonewacko still posting, his posts for the last few weeks have been way into off-the-meds schizophrenic territory. I think it's because of the upcoming election and Reason's purported support for Obama.

Reason is supporting Obama? Or that's just Lone's head?

[Ah, Clem]

LoneWacko: If you think the NAU is real, but your money where you mouth is. I will bet one (1) ounce of GOLD that there will be no NAU or Amero by this time next year.

And you'll probably win your bet. But if you're feeling ambitious, you might want to look up the European Coal and Steel Community.

As Nick Lowe in his infinite wisdom once told us, from small things big things someday come.

[Orange Line Special]

Lots of really raw idiocy above.

1. JCorsi was in that country doing reporting. He wasn't a crypto-agent of the U.S. doing PoliticalOrganizing. There's absolutely no connection between his situation and what I cover. The fact that anyone would make such a connection shows they're even dumber than the below-average DK poster.

2. I haven't been following T'Gate that closely, but I did post this. But, don't look into that too deeply, since it's best to be just as ignorant as Reason wants you to be.

P.S. Looks like Reason Magazine's choice to be president has a new version of the truth. The old version got hit by a bus and was sent down the MemoryHole (h/t the imageshack link above).

[BakedPenguin]

SIV - well, you better pick up your Barrett Light .50 now.

I wasn't going to do this, but if Lonewacko wants to keep posting here, let me reprint:

The Adventures of Lonewacko.

and Lonewacko Meets the Presidential Candidates.

[SIV]

As Nick Lowe in his infinite wisdom once told us, from small things big things someday come.
Wasn't it Dave Edmunds singing on that Springsteen cover?

[Elemenope]

Reason is supporting Obama? Or that's just Lone's head?

Just his head. He cannot separate criticizing McCain from supporting Obama. And in a certain abstract sense, they do achieve similar ends...if it weren't for the fact that Reason has criticized Obama just as harshly.

I imagine if you polled Hit & Runners, you'd probably find a few who are tepidly supporting Obama (like me), a few tepidly supporting McCain, and a Barr-head or two. Most have whined their way out of voting at all.

[BakedPenguin]

SIV - do you honestly believe Obama would try confiscation?

LMNOP - I think a lot of us are voting for Barr as the lesser of three evils. I know I am.

[Elemenope]

LMNOP - I think a lot of us are voting for Barr as the lesser of three evils. I know I am.

Most of the people I would have pegged around here as Barr voters have sworn off voting for president entirely, so either they were lying in a whiny fashion, or you are more alone than you think.

[Mike Laursen]

Reason is supporting Obama? Or that's just Lone's head?

Like Elemenope says, just in Lonewacko's head.

[SIV]

BP,

I don't know what he would try.Rather than outright confiscation I would expect onerous registration schemes that amount to defacto confiscation(reclassifying some firearms as Class 3) What I expect at a minimum is a ban on private transfers and some import restrictions/bans.I expect congressional over-reach of some sort on gun control attached to liberty restricting "crime" bills that will have the Obama-optimistic libertarians wonder what the hell they were thinking.

[Heinrick]

Robert Palmer (Best of Both Worlds)belongs on there someware.

[prolefeed]

It was McCain's outspoken support for the unpopular bailout -- a big-government intervention incompatible with conservative economic philosophy -- that handed the election to Obama. The bailout failed as politics and, as evidenced by Monday's selloff on Wall Street, it also failed as policy.

Robert Stacy McCain nailed it. The OTHER, lesser, McCain didn't "suspend" his campaign to go pimp for the bailout, he "ended" his campaign by sending an unmistakable message to the Republican base that he was a socialist.

Oh, and how is that market panic quelling from the bailout working out?

Waiting for the stock market to hit bottom, and then put all my spare cash into one hell of a buying opportunity.

[prolefeed]

Most of the people I would have pegged around here as Barr voters have sworn off voting for president entirely, so either they were lying in a whiny fashion, or you are more alone than you think.

Not me, LMNOP, made up my mind months ago to vote LP no matter who they nominated (except for Gravel).

[Bingo]

Holy crap, iih/Ali is back!

[*]

SIV,

Does talking about guns get you hard?

You need help.

[Asharak]

Just his head. He cannot separate criticizing McCain from supporting Obama. And in a certain abstract sense, they do achieve similar ends...if it weren't for the fact that Reason has criticized Obama just as harshly.

What's really hilarious about it is that lonewacko is sticking up "Juan McAmnesty".

[Asharak]

sticking up *for*

[ed]

The crowd booed.

Correction: some people in the crowd booed. Just like some people in every crowd are crackpots or racists or American Idol-watchers. It's always funny and ironic when self-righteous types apply the actions of a few to a whole group. That's what bigots do.

[J sub D]

J sub D, looks like you only have one album from past the 1970's there. Um, there have been things happening since then...

But not so much in Rock and Roll which was the category. Grunge? Grindcore? Emo? Gimme a break.* Plus I'm an aging reactionary fuck.

Get off my lawn!

* I know, I know. The old shit ain't no better. Sturgeon's law and all of that. It's just I no longer have the patience to sort through the emerging music trends morass. I'm actaully working backwards. Blues, big bands, acoustic jazz, even some crooners. The 90% crap has a much shorter half-life than the quality 10. Gems are easier to find that way.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"SIV - do you honestly believe Obama would try confiscation?"

No he doesn't, it's just the nature of SIV's shillery to try to "convince" people here to vote how he would like. So he thinks of issues that he thinks would resonate with the libertarian in his head and puts forward such Michelle Malkinish childish claims (which being about the future are nice and non-falsifiable) and throws them out there.

The Dems won't touch gun control with a 10 foot pole. 1994 made a bit of an impression on them. Maybe they also finally got it on an intellectual level that gun control in the US simply would have little to no effect on homicide rates...

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"U.S. Senator John McCain (R-Arizona) is featured in two television spots in support of Colorado and Oregon ballot initiatives to close the "Gun Show Loophole."

The thirty-second ads, appearing in both states, are the first spots in a $1 million campaign sponsored by Americans for Gun Safety (AGS), a new non-partisan group that is supporting the two citizen-led referendums."

[Ali]

Holy crap, iih/Ali is back!

Um, not really. This H&R thing is a major time sink (in a good way). Just thought to stop by and say hi. Don't worry Bingo.

How have you been doin'?

[P Brooks]

re: music

On my generic linux-powered mp3 .ogg player, I currently have: Dave Edmunds, (the Real) Hank Williams, Elvis Costello, the Who, The Pogues, Link Wray, the Rolling Stones, and Mark Knopfler/Chet Atkins. And some other stuff.

[joe]

Correction: some people in the crowd booed.

Correction: the crowd booed. The booing was loud enough, and without competition from anyone applauding or cheering, for "the crowd booed" to be a perfectly accurate statement.

"Some people in the crowd booed" would be an inaccurate statement, as it implies that the behavior was not widespread enough for that statement to be applied collectively to the crowd.

"Some people in the crowd didn't boo" would have been an accurate statement.

Nice friends.

[Adam]

Barr simply isn't credible when he talks about the current crisis being 10 years old, because he was in Congress at the time!

[P Brooks]

So, do you own stocks? Oh, too bad.

America sez: "When the government tells me it's time to panic, I panic!"

[BakedPenguin]

SIV, Does talking about guns get you hard?

I asked him a question. He was answering it. His point about reclassification was a decent one, as that is the type of end around politicians do to try to sneak things over on people. I'm a little more sanguine about the 2nd amendment, because (as MNG pointed out) Democrats in general are much less vitriolic on the issue, and it no longer has the broad national movement behind it that it had in the 1970's & 80's.

[BDB]

Baked--

Too many southern and western Dems to pass any gun control measure, even if they wanted to (which I don't think they do, it's not even in the platform this year).

[BDB]

Actually I'd bet money Jim Webb would personally filibuster any new gun bill.

[joe]

BakedPenguin is a little more sanguine about the 2nd amendment, because

1. (as MNG pointed out) Democrats in general are much less vitriolic on the issue

2. it no longer has the broad national movement behind it that it had in the 1970's & 80's

and 3. he's actually looking at the issue in terms of his ability to own guns, rather than as a proxy issue for a red-blue slapfight.

[BDB]

BUT HES FROM CHICAGO!!!!

[SIV]

I opposed McCain as the GOP nominee because he supports a ban on private transfer of firearms.
I guaranty Obama and the Dems will go at least that far. Sometime next year you will lose the right to freely exchange your legally owned personal property without going through a federally licensed dealer.

[J sub D]

1. (as MNG pointed out) Democrats in general are much less vitriolic on the issue

2. it no longer has the broad national movement behind it that it had in the 1970's & 80's

and 3. he's actually looking at the issue in terms of his ability to own guns, rather than as a proxy issue for a red-blue slapfight.

Add

4. He doesn't live in a jurisdiction that routinely violates those rights. I live in a shall issue state. Not a big issue to me either.

Go here to see how the battle has been largely won. Wait a bit before leaving, that map changes.

[Moose from Chicago]

OH YEAT? THE LAKE LOOKS LOVELY TODAY

[SIV]

Quite a bit of gun control has been implemented without going through congress.Bush the Elders ban on importing "assault weapons".Clinton with trade restrictions and endless bureaucratic rule changes at the BATFE.Didn't they reclassify drum magazine shotguns as destructive devices or AOWs?
IIRC they weren't "grandfathered" in either. they went looking for original purchasers and informed them of the rules change.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Um, not really. This H&R thing is a major time sink (in a good way). Just thought to stop by and say hi.

Yeah Ali, you're right about the time sink thing. I haven't been posting much since the start of the summer, except for rare late-night drunken posts. (Not that those were ever the most unusual type of posts for me, anyway.)

But good to see you anyway! How's it going?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"As this is the "open thread" does anyone have an opinion on which firearm I should buy now that won't be so easily and cheaply available after 2 years of DemocRAT Party rule?"

It's funny that in first bringing this matter up SIV didn't mention that the other "non-DemocRAT Party" candidate supports gun restrictions rather strongly. That is until I called him on it and then he said he always knew about that and opposed the GOP guy for that very reason. But it slipped his mind in bringing up the issue. So he well knew the GOP candidate was on record as being bad on this but in bringing up the subject on a discussion board that he knows values gun rights he thought best not to bring that up...

Hmmm.

Shill much?

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Give "Other Voices" (post Morrison Doors) a spin some time. Me and 6 other guys bought it.

Now we just have to find the other 5.

does anyone have an opinion on which firearm I should buy now that won't be so easily and cheaply available after 2 years of DemocRAT Party rule

Don't forget about picking up a few more large-capacity magazines and stocking up on ammo.

.. "Armed and Ready" Hobbit

[joe]

Neat Map, J sub. It's interesting how the "No Issue" states in 1986 were concentrated in today's red states.

[Ali]

Hey Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job!

Good, good. Just relaxing here in Boston. Superb weather. How's your job (funding, etc)?

[Kolohe]

It was McCain's outspoken support for the unpopular bailout -- a big-government intervention incompatible with conservative economic philosophy -- that handed the election to Obama. The bailout failed as politics and, as evidenced by Monday's selloff on Wall Street, it also failed as policy.

Robert Stacy McCain nailed it. The OTHER, lesser, McCain didn't "suspend" his campaign to go pimp for the bailout, he "ended" his campaign by sending an unmistakable message to the Republican base that he was a socialist.

Sen McCain got himself into a bit of a Kobayashi Maru.

The *only* way he could have been politically successful would be to oppose the bailout but for it still to pass. Then he could have ran against the bailout and said 'see? You guys made it worse'

But it is unlikely that if he did indeed oppose the bailout, it would have passed. The house republicans would have stood their ground.

So what would have happened is everything that has transpired over this past week or so, but with 'failed bailout' at the forefront of everyone's mind. Thus, those that were for the bailout would have pointed to McCain and the house republicans and said 'See? You guys made it worse'.

[Neu Mejican]

Just Plain Brian | October 10, 2008, 7:55pm | #
A top ten list is always tough, because it quickly becomes about who to leave off, but I'd want to at least include -

QFT.

Just Plain Brian | October 10, 2008, 7:55pm | #
A top ten list is always tough, because it quickly becomes about who to leave off, but I'd want to at least include -

QFT

Sonic Youth, "Daydream Nation" I like Sister better, but good choice.

Zappa, "Joe's Garage"

Hmmm...I can't choose, but I think maybe Freakout is my favorite Zappa...

David Bowie, "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"
Good choice, although I would go with either Man Who Sold the World or Lodger.

SIV: Good album. Eno makes the "what do you leave off" thing particularly hard.

As does Can.

Another 5 (with a punk twist this time):

Husker Du: New Day Rising
Minutemen: Double Nickles on the Dime
Big Black: Atomizer
Poster Children: Flower Plower
Rhythm Pigs: An American Activity E.P. (7")

[NM never previews...by why?]

Damn.
How'd that happen?

[Art-P.O.G.]

BakedPenguin | October 10, 2008, 11:03pm |

I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. Thanks.

[J sub D]

Neat Map, J sub.

Wiki is what Wiki is. For shit like this it is convenient and reliable. I'm not gonna use it as a string theory refernce though. Anything polically controversial is not to be trusted there as well.

OTOH, the nerds have teamed up to do some marvelous work.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Ali, it's going fine. The retirement fund is spiraling down the drain (TIAA CREF can't fix everything, I guess), but the job is stable, the grant is still going on and I love the work, so not much to complain about. Glad to see you're doing well, too.

Oh and I got me a woman so that is cool too!

[Ali]

Oh and I got me a woman so that is cool too!

Congratulations! That's always* nice.

* Those guys** who disagree, yeah, I understand your viewpoint.

** And gals.

[The Recording Angel]

Obama to go down with Rezko?

"The Sun Times today gave a major clue that Barack Obama will indeed go down with Tony Rezko, sooner rather than later. It looks as though Rezko is about to turn on Alexi Giannoulias, the 30-year old State Treasurer of Illinois (who was elected only because Obama backed him)."

On the best album list: Gene Clark "No Other"

[joe]

I read that whole story twice, and I still can't figure out what Barack Obama is being accused of.

[BDB]

Yeah, what was that about?

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

They do use the Thundercats Symbol as their own, though.