Palin-Biden I

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It's a bit of a reversal from the presidential debate, with Biden looking at Gwen Iffel, and Palin looking at you, the TV viewer! Biden doesn't seem 100 percent healthy; Palin is glowing like a Botticelli.

Palin's sentences are a nightmare to diagram, so I wont: "John McCain has been one representing reform," for example.

Biden sticks to sorrow, not in anger attacks on McCain and fulsome praise for Obama. Palin will work for "Joe Six-packs, hockey moms across the nation." You know, a lot of hockey moms live in Michiga… oh.

After a few corn-pone injections from Palin, Biden crackles to life: Hey, he knows people too! One of them, at a gas station!

"I'm gonna talk straight to the American people!" God, what an obvious admission that she's prepped for some issues and not for others.

This is following the pattern of other Biden debates and Palin debates. Palin loathes specifics, and cribs from Reagan: "you're not gonna like the feds running your health care!" Biden burrows into numbers.

"How long have I been at this? Five weeks?" Palin's banking on a media backlash.

I'm going to need to see the math on what these people are actually going to dial back to pay for the bailout? Less than it cost, surely, even if you take Biden's $100 billion figure for the gains from stopping offshore banking.

Did Palin just correct Biden on a chant? I think she did.

Bold stuff from Biden on gay marriage: "the Constitution" guarantees hospital visitations. He knows how far out on a limb is with this issue. Indeed, she looks less comfortable talking about the subject.

The Iraq exchange is as much of a time warp as the presidential debate's exchange was. "White flag of surrender," in 2008? Palin, remember, was not for the surge when it began, but she's all in now.

Paging Walt and Mearsheimer: Both candidates are stacking their panders on Israel higher and higher.

Checking other blogs, I'm seeing a lot of praise for Palin and complaints about Biden's "washingtonese." I don't hear it. I find Palin impossible to follow through her magic garden of run-on sentences. Biden is extremely listenable and blunt.

OK, I'll waive that assessment on the Afghan section. Biden assumes a little too much understanding of military strategy from the audience, similiar to McCain last week.

Show, don't tell, Sarah. "Boy, it's clear that I'm a Washington outsider! Americans are cravin' that straight talk!" The goal is to portray Biden as speaking incomprehensible beltway speak and blur the issues. In this round it's a bit more effective, but generally.

Aha! She's out of facts. The "tomorrow the pundits will check that" response to Biden on McCain's strategy was pure filler.

"Wasilla main street." Yeah, Palin is trying to pretend it's the day after the Republican convention and people still adore this schtick.

"Say it ain't so, Joe! There you go again!" I think she meant to spread those one-liners out a bit more. "Ya get extra credit for watching this debate!"

Palin experiences her first actual return volley when she makes fun of Biden's comment that he didn't want to be vice president. She'd been joking about saying she didn't understand what the VP does; she assumed he was joking, too. "I guess that was a lame attempt at humor. Nobody got it." Biden: "Yours or mine? Which one didn't they get?"

At 10:20 or so, Biden took command of this thing. I was wondering how he'd play the family tragedy card: He played it by choking up at the assertion that he didn't understand average families. He got fed up with the "maverick card" and delivered, I think, a devastating punch to Palin for claiming that McCain was anything but a generic Republican on economics.

"I enjoy being able to answer these questions," says the governor who said she would "talk straight" instead of answer questions.

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  1. You can’t use “Never Again” when you’re talking about banking regulations!

  2. Palin’s voice is shaking. I remember hearing that quaver in the voices of novice debaters in high school. However, I’m fairly certain that the level of erudition and rhetoric was higher in forensics.

  3. Every time Palin says “Darn right!” take a drink. See you in the ER.

  4. She’s just…barely…hanging on.

    Biden isn’t very good himself, but she’s right on the edge.

  5. So…I’ve never watched a VP debate before. But it seems like they aren’t debating each other, as much as debating for McCain and Obama by proxy. Is that the way it normally is? They sound like two little kids arguing about whose dad is tougher.

  6. Doormouse-Yeah, that’s pretty much the standard.
    God lord, could this woman pander to “Joe Sixpack” any harder?

  7. I’m Sarah Palin, and I’m gonna be mean to the help whether you or her are liking it or not, Senator.

  8. With the speed of this debate, one is for sure gonna make a mistake pretty soon.

  9. Palin looked kind of nervous at the go, but she seems to have settled down.

  10. Has Palin ever actually answered a question?

    And which is worse: giving a bad anti-capitalist ideological answer or not answering at all?

  11. Palin’s voice is shaking.

    Darn right! *takes drink*

  12. Plain is nailin’ the talking to the camera. But the pace is whithering.

    Biden talks slowly a first, but then goes faster and faster.

    Joey Danco!

  13. Hey, who slipped Biden the message to ‘look at the damn camera!’ and how.

  14. Go Palin! Lower Taxes on businesses. Lower taxes on individuals!

  15. Sarah Palin doesn’t have to answer questions. Sarah Palin’s just gonna talk about what Sarah Palin wants to talk about.

  16. Palin on taxes: That is the first honest-to-goodness libertarian rhetoric in this entire race since the primaries ended.

  17. God lord, could this woman pander to “Joe Sixpack” any harder?

    Yes, but it would break your TV, and YOUR MIND!

  18. Is anyone watching this on CNN? If so, what is going on with that graph at the bottom of the screen?

  19. Charles- Don’t get excited. She’s lying. Of course, so is Biden.

  20. Number 6- she’s also an idiot. Fantastic!

    I think the graph is how good voters maybe feel? Green is men. Orange is women.

  21. “govenor, would you be interested in defending john mccain’s health care plan?”

    bit flippant on the wording, eh?

  22. Mccain’s Bridge to Nowhere!

  23. Is anyone watching this on CNN? If so, what is going on with that graph at the bottom of the screen?

    They have a focus group with buttons they mash that measure positive or negative reactions to what the pols are saying (but, can they save Itchy and Scratchy?)

  24. Palin’s going to be ok, as long as she isn’t too vacuous after Biden’s statement on health care/tax policy.

    Just as long as she doesn’t seem to just be reciting talking points she doesn’t understand very well.

  25. Mr. Chartreuse. Ah, thank you. I thought it was something like that, but was trying to tell myself that even CNN couldn’t be that shallow. I was wrong.

  26. Palin seems to not be doing so good, but she actually pretended to embrace some libertarian rhetoric about taxes, so yay for that at least.

  27. 90% of America just failed to understand Biden’s healthcare math.

  28. Wait, McCain doesn’t say one thing to one group and another thing to another group?

    That seems pretty easy to check.

  29. I think the graph is how good voters maybe feel? Green is men. Orange is women.

    Damn, I was hoping Green was Hulk and Orange was Thing.

  30. LOL @ bless their hearts

  31. Biden seems to be doing better in the vapid focus-group graph.

  32. Biden must have some example of McCain being McCain.

  33. She’s doing the more standard ignore the question strategy. I missed that.

  34. Man, the ‘I’ve been at this 5 weeks’ would have been a great line if she didn’t botch the delivery.

  35. JPB, no contest! vote Hulk!

  36. Eh, that was workman-like from her. Graceless, but decent enough. Not a fail.

  37. “The bailout legislation has to include that massive oversight that the people deserve.”

    Quick, quoted from the Republican or Democrat?

  38. Palin on taxes: That is the first honest-to-goodness libertarian rhetoric in this entire race since the primaries ended.

    *Cutting taxes* itself isn’t Libertarian rhetoric by definition. It *can* be, but it can just as easily be Populist rhetoric. In order for it to be Libertarian, they would have to make a simultaneous commitment to cut spending *at least as much as the amount they would lose in revenue by cutting taxes*. And they will never do that.

    So it’s just populist garbage. Nobody has ever lost votes by promising to take less money from people.

  39. My great-grandmother had a chair with the exact same upholstery as Gwen Ifill’s jacket.

  40. Tax evasion is not unpatriotic. It’s the founding idea of our country.

    “Bless their hearts” I am a diabetic, Sarah. Stop trying to kill me.

  41. Who are starting to really kinda rear that head of abuse.

    God, that’s awful.

  42. please talk about yourself…like what you would do…like once

  43. “Rear that head of abuse”

    !!!

  44. “Main Streeters”! DRINK!

  45. They’re rearing that head of abuse up into our airspace, and where do they go? Alaska.

  46. Charles,

    Is your grandmother’s chair also wrapped around a gigantic lesbian?

  47. To wit, if it quacks like a duck but looks and smells like a pit bull, what is more likely:

    1. It’s a duck.
    2. It’s a pit bull that has swallowed a squeaky toy.

    Evidence suggests “2”.

  48. Quote, I’m paraphrasing…
    Classic.

  49. LMNOP,

    She sounded very much, to me, as saying that government getting out of the way was the important part. That is the key part, and it’s at least a libertarian instinct. But, as #6 said above, I’m pretty sure it’s a lie.

  50. That is so hot. SugarFree, what is your grandmother wearing?

  51. I can’t watch this train wreck.

    When it’s over someone tell me how bad it was.

  52. SugarFree,

    I don’t know, the chair was writing a book about the lamp so I never went back.

  53. stop fucking telling mem to thank john mccain.

    yeah biden! “john mccain said, quote, i’m paraphrashing ‘…’ “

  54. Drill Baby Drill!!!!

  55. Whoa — “I don’t know the answer to that question, so I’ll talk about this random topic instead (energy).”

  56. She goes to bed early and sleeps in the raw, so let your imagination run wild…

  57. I can’t believe she said “rear their head”. My God.

    I’m messed up right now and I still recognized that as a Moment in Failure.

  58. Palin is charlie

  59. If Biden ever had my vote he lost this renters vote by suggesting we should bail out those that boughht at the top.

  60. Please define “windfall profits,” Sen. Biden.

  61. Jesus Christ…can this woman speak one grammatical sentence? Just one?
    She doesn’t care about what causes climate change…she just wants to know how to fix it.

    That’s it…I’m getting a beer.

  62. Palin went almost completely incoherent on global warming. I heard a few libertarianish points, but just buzzwords.

  63. Send Bjorn Lomborg to tutor Joe Biden

  64. I think Biden is dehydrated, maybe? The corners of his mouth look red and sore. If anyone is watching it on HD, give us the info.

  65. Sarah Palin sounds really condescending. Who the hell saw that coming?

  66. Women don’t like it when Palin talks about “drilling”

  67. I don’t think Palin is misspeaking more than a normal person does, it’s just that she refuses to go back and amend herself with an ‘excuse me’ or a ‘sorry i mean’. She misspeaks ahd just keeps fucking barelling right on with the sentence trying to somehow make it coherent.

  68. I think she just said “Senator O’Biden”

  69. “Drill, Drill, Drill. Drill if we must.”

    “Drill, baby, drill”

    When did this become a porn movie.

    Also, is natural gas “clean and green”?

  70. She said, “people are hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into.”

    I’ll be in my bunk.

  71. Wow, Palin on the attack.

  72. Biden – The cause is man made

    care to elaborate?

  73. rope line?

  74. I heard a few libertarianish points, but just buzzwords.

    Have you heard of the infinite monkey theorem (Wikipedia)? 🙂

  75. nukular?

    Not again!

  76. I am waiting for a transcript to read the rest of the debate, because I can’t listen to it.

    Palin’s accent is the most horrific thing I have ever heard and I can’t listen to another second of it.

  77. “Please define “windfall profits,” Sen. Biden.”

    It’s right next to the definition of “fairness”!

  78. Biden’s mouth. It’s a rubbed off area of TV make-up. It does give him a bit of a perma-frown.

  79. A bit of gear grinding by Ifill on the questions.

  80. When did this become a porn movie.

    A bright future is where the coal is clean and the women are dirty.

    A bleak future is where the coal is dirty and the women are clean.

  81. Palin just babbles and babbles. And we’re not even into foreign policy yet.

    But I AM close to a bingo. Come ooooon foreign policy!!

  82. I’m not sure how much longer I can listen to the moronic blowhard and the nervous fool.

  83. Fluffy,

    Why do you hate Fargo?

  84. Okay, peeking again.
    Thank god they are talking about something totally irrelevant like gay marriage.
    It’s slightly less horrifying.

  85. My [peewee sport] mom declares, “Palin is kicking ass”

  86. Let’s put a smile on that face, Joe!

  87. Protip: Don’t ever say, “I am tolerant.” Tolerant people don’t say that.

  88. He took a stance and she didn’t.

    He said “absolutely positively,” and she was vague and evasive.

    The Democrat. And the Republican. On gay rights.

    Whoa.

  89. “Palin is glowing like a Botticelli.”

    Like a Botticellian angel. Lovely.

  90. sort of like how it’s always the diploma mills that make it very clear that they are accredited on their homepages

  91. Palin fumbled the theocrat ball on gay marriage. She doesn’t support it, but thinks there should be no civil rights difference. A nation of rednecks just choked on their Keystone Light.

  92. Early withdrawal didn’t work out too well for her daughter either

  93. more porn: no early withdrawal..

    oops, Isnt early withdrawal required in porn? Palin is against the facial?

    explains the pregnancies, but doesnt jibe with her great skin

  94. Biden’s mouth.

    Lordy, he’s scary in HD.

  95. joe, if Biden took a stance, he would have said that same-sex couples could adopt as well.

  96. Does anyone have some polls on gay marriage? Is it that much of a loser that even liberal Democrats must politically oppose it?

  97. Thanks for blogging it. I have had my fill…off to listen to the Cubs game.

  98. We’re so fucked.

  99. Holy crap, the men and women on CNN love Biden talking about Iraq.

    Priceless: Palin’s silence after Biden’s answer about Iraq.

  100. He looks like he’s been drinking sappho

  101. She just pulled out the “white flag of surrender” meme. I don’t think I can do this any more.

  102. Timeline squabbling? Fuck. Biden, just say “LET’S GET THE FUCK OUT NOW.”

    Awkward pause Sarah.

  103. Keep forgetting I’ve changed my name …

    Bidens full of crap on Iraq. Maliki wants us gone so he can fuck with the Awakening groups. Also the plan is 3 years not 16 months.

    Palin is incoherent, as usual.

    But it’s less horrifying if I focus on how wrong Biden is.

  104. Did Biden say God first? Somebody won some big money.

  105. Biden said “God”! He just lost the athiest vote!

  106. Madbiker,

    The thoughts acquire speed. That’s why they are talking so fast.

  107. Also the plan is 3 years not 16 months.

    3 years < 100 years

  108. Has Biden had a facelift?

  109. SugarFree | October 2, 2008, 9:41pm | #
    Palin fumbled the theocrat ball on gay marriage. She doesn’t support it, but thinks there should be no civil rights difference. A nation of rednecks just choked on their Keystone Light.

    That’s pretty much how she handled it in Alaska.

  110. Nuc Iran vs unhinged pakistan. that’s actually a decent question.

    Too bad Biden said ‘both’ I imagine palin will say the same

  111. perpetual “3 years”~100 years

  112. Is Biden flirting with Ifill?

    [blorgcht]

  113. Holy crap, people* are loving Biden on the Pakistan question.

    *People in a focus group in Ohio, that is.

  114. School choice in Waziristan!

  115. Exxon/Mobil makes much profit on a gallon of gas? The federal government takes in how much on the same gallon? I believe it’s something like $0.07 to $0.40, yet Biden begrudges every cent Exxon gets to keep. The US has one the least competitive corporate tax structures of any nation in the world, and it is hurting our economy. Do you think anything will be done to improve that situation under an Obama regime?

  116. Who am I?

    “Don’t spend hundreds of billions of dollars blowing up Iraq. Spend hundreds of billions of dollars blowing up Afghanistan, Pakistan, and possibly Iran”

  117. Do you have to say “nucular” and “Eye-rack” in order to be a Republican candidate?

  118. whose will is setting Palin’s mind in motion?

    I see she has picked up the term “nucular” weapons

  119. Palin will bring “noo-kyu-lar” back into fashion!

    There, she just said it again!

    But fair is fair: she is an order of magnitude more articulate than the current resident of the White House.

  120. Well people in Ohio do get to decide the entire election. They all supported Hillary and “still don’t like black people.” I’ve been following the news this election.

  121. Syd,

    But how can that be? The feminist websites have all told me that she wants to flay gays alive and grease the wheels of our war machine with sodomite ass-grease. They wouldn’t employ hyperbole and out-right lies would they?

    My worldview is spinning.

  122. Diplomacy.

    Serious Bidness.

  123. By the way, are we drinking every time Sarah says “noo-kyu-lar”? That’s reason enough to vote for McCain-Palin right there!

  124. you know, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to mend bridges and use a few kind words so the rest of the world wouldn’t hate us the way Palin asserts they do

  125. now she’s speaking confidently, but she’s just repeating the talkign points, I feel like I just saw a rereun of last week’s debate.

    Waiting for the Henry Kissinger reference …

  126. Why are the candidates looking down all the time? Does the lectern feature a scriptbook?

  127. Ssppppaaaaaaaaaaaainnna.

  128. Jerry- Probably.

  129. “one or the other”

  130. Palin sounds like when we make fun of Freeper trolls on the war. “They hate our freedoms. Jeebus.

  131. third person alert

  132. McCain on Spain went mainly down in flame.

  133. What? No Henry Kissinger? They changed the script!

  134. you know, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to mend bridges and use a few kind words so the rest of the world wouldn’t hate us the way Palin asserts they do

    How else would you scare people to vote for you?

  135. Palin already mentioned Kissinger about 5 minutes ago

  136. Biden landed a big shot on the Spanish Prime Minister thing.

    Jerry | October 2, 2008, 9:42pm | #

    joe, if Biden took a stance, he would have said that same-sex couples could adopt as well.

    I didn’t say was a heroic stance.

  137. Jerry,

    Palin has a picture of her family to give her strength. Biden has a mirror. Ifill has a picture of a sandwich.

  138. Biden’s Lebadon story doesn’t sound right on what actaully happened nor who said what when.

  139. Not quite two thirds of the way through, this has been a total waste of time. No hilarious gaffes, nothing important said, meeting almost entirely the expectations for both.

  140. Did Biden just say he wanted NATO troops in Lebanon?

  141. Huge blenders?

  142. Palin and Israel sitting in a tree…

    Or, is it time for an orgy since everyone loves Israel? 😛

  143. I love Israel more than you do smooch smooch

    I’ll throw ten billion there way.

    Twenty billion, I love her more than you do~

    and she just said country comes first

  144. Maverick count at 8:55 central: 2

  145. Maverick @ 9:55!

  146. “Positive change is coming”

    Nowhere to go but up, huh?

  147. How many Mavrik wildcards are in the deck?

  148. Biden-Palin-Isreal three-way.

    I’m not going to say some terrible part of me wouldn’t want to watch.

  149. aw shucks, Sarah is just a slice of apple pie. .

  150. Palin: “Nucular weaponreeee … would be … ah … “

  151. I can’t take any more. I know ten libertarians in my state who could be ripping Sen. Joe a new asshole right now, but Palin is incoherent. I can’t stand McCain but know he strongly condemned dicey mortgages in a Senate speech in 2005. Why doesn’t she hold up the Congressional REcord, read it out, and call Biden on his lie? Because she is incoherent and knows less about national issues than just about anyone who regularly appears on this blog. Damn you, Ron Paul, for not running as an independent!

  152. the rhetoric of the US being the only responsible nation with its nukes grates on me

  153. Now Gwen is just making up questions on the spot to hear more Palin “nukular”. I’m getting tipsy on this wild card.

  154. I respect you for respecting him. Also, respect.

  155. Is there a requirement to pronounce nuclear a certain way to get membership in the RNC?

  156. Way to not answer the nuke use question.

  157. two third person refs

  158. Thank god for my Obama iPhone app!!!!

  159. How does Palin handle criticism of how the war is going?

    She says you’re hurting the troops.

  160. Do you guys mind if I just start rambling on about Afghanistan for a minute?

  161. Way to not answer the nuke use question.

    “Nuke the site from orbit” would have been more inline with McCain’s thinking 🙂

  162. why can neither of them admit nation-building does not work?

  163. a first for a candidate, acknowledging time limitations – wow

  164. The Kissinger reference must have been while my eyes were closed.

    I’m getting bored now. Biden saves Palin’s ass by boring everyone into changing the channel.

  165. Joe- Well, of course. That’s the standard Republican play, isn’t it?

  166. She’s gettin’ pissy about John McClellan.

  167. no NATO in iraq:
    Are the Brits completely out of Iraq?

  168. Do we not have Nato allies helping us in Afghanistan? Or is it Iraq?

  169. If I had a nickel for every time both of them have said “um” I could take us all out to dinner.

  170. Has anyone else been noticing Biden making noises into the mic, like sighs?

  171. Yes, Number 6, the standard Republican play. From 2002.

    It doesn’t quite come off the same way these days, does it?

  172. actually, he is doing pretty good with the points on Afghanistan.

  173. ‘the american public has the stomach for success’

    and double cheeseburgers on the dollar menu.

  174. Bosniac is a real word. I know a guy who worked on elections there.

  175. okay, now he is fucking up, who really believed Bush was going to use the cautionary prinicple Biden is outlining?

  176. Ash,

    He sighs and she grins incredulously. Probably both are coached/scripted.

  177. Bosniac: Fan of all things Bosnian

  178. outsider! straight talk!

  179. Has anyone else been noticing Biden making noises into the mic, like sighs?

    Yes, and it’s driving me nuts. The sniffing and snorting.

  180. oh look at me little Sarah from Donnybrook Farm, shut da fuck up wit dat.

  181. A gotcha smile… cute

  182. Kerry line! BURN!

  183. Been watching for 10 minutes, haven’t seen any Palin gaffes? That’s not what I paid for!

  184. My brother had Bosniac’s Syndrome. Lot of chaffing. Lots of salve.

  185. Palin: I’m totally clueless about this foreign policy crap, so I’ll just say some shit about being an ousider and a maverick and straight talk.

  186. wow, palin just got a pretty decent burn in on biden’s switch in tactics.

  187. It looks like for my next tour, I’ll have a choice of an IA in Afghanistan or Sudan. Maybe I’ll get Djibouti.

    Heh.

    Djibouti.

  188. Palin looks soooo smug. Biden looks like he’s had a little work done, and it didn’t turn out too well.

  189. Does anyone think that either of them wouldn’t agree on Darfur? Was Ifill thinking Palin would scream “Fuck those skinny bastards!”

  190. does he? I thought we lost Vietnam…

  191. Yeah, he won Vietnam!

  192. Both are so terrible.

  193. Is he foaming at the (corners of the) mouth?

  194. She the first person in history to spin a debate *during the frickin debate*.

    Call Guiness.

  195. Does the constitution allow the VP candidate to call teh presidential candidate by his first name? Barack..?

  196. Vietnam? We lost.

  197. “John McCain knows how to win a war”

    Wha???

  198. Except when she’s talking. Then it’s very high school senior giving a class presentation.

  199. great question

  200. And he took on greed on wall street!

  201. “So, McCain is old and going to die soon and someone is going to try to shoot Obama. What would you guys do?”

  202. Is Ifill eating between questions? “Mmppph…Senatormmph…care to respondmmphhh…”

  203. As I said on the other thread this debate NEEDS Wayne Allen Root.

  204. Bbiden: I think I’ll rattle off some talking points now.

  205. Roosevelt reference – 1932

  206. Wow, check out the “Thing line” – it’s clobberin’ time!

  207. Biden has numerous and fine wrinkles at the corners of his mouth. No foam. Yet.

    But his smile is pretty fucking creepy in 1080 on a 50 inch TV.

  208. A TEAM OF MAVERICKS!

  209. mavrick x3

  210. maverick count at 9:09 central: 3

    Two have come in a “team of mavericks” construction

  211. “We’re BOTH mavericks.”

  212. Thank god that whichever one wins, we’ll never hear from him or her again.

  213. Palin: The ANWR wink.

  214. Did I mention we’re both mavericks?

  215. Small town reference – Wasilla

    They’ve both shot their loads (do girls do that?)

  216. “team of mavericks” doesn’t make any sense.

  217. wished they would begin instead of ‘heaven forbid,’, ‘if I get that golden opportunity, here is my plan . . .’

  218. Everyday working class Americans are saying fuck the bailout! Say it!

  219. Biden, I know about small towns too…

  220. Union Street in Wilmington! Boo-yah!

  221. Oh, I get it. The graph: Northern Irish vs. the regular kind. Biden’s losing Galway!

  222. Small town reference – Wasilla

    They’ve both shot their loads (do girls do that?)

    Yes they do if you know what you are doing

  223. It’s like he had his lower lip surgically reattached recently. Bad HD!

  224. The people in his current neighborhood?

  225. We’ve all been getting the short end of the stick – Middle Class, Biden…!!! please!!!!

  226. Delaware sucks. I don’t want to be in that neighborhood.

  227. Sarah Palin and the Politics of Clueless Adorableness.

  228. Sen Biden, elitists go to Home Depot. Real ‘Mericans go to Tru-Value like Paul Harvey tells them to.

  229. OK – doesn’t Palin appear to have a number of libertarian talking points: low taxes, federalism on social issues, scientific reasoning for energy policies. . . doggone it!

  230. DOGGONIT!

    I’m FOLKSY!

  231. Tina Fey must be freaking out right now.

  232. Does the average person working/living on Main Street understand economic initiatives, etc.? I didn’t for the longest time. Literacy rates in this area suggest most of Main Street doesn’t either

    Oh gollee gee, Sarah is just as cute as a freaking button

  233. Wow, Ohio women really hate when she gets folksy. That’s like the 4th time I’ve seen it now.

  234. I have an office in Wilmington, but I’ve never seen it.

  235. Biden: I can use buzz words too. Main street. Kitty’s restauraunts. Scranton. Short end of the stick. Corporate America.

    Palin: Yeah, but I’m cute. Say it ain’t so, joe.

  236. … gag! Third graders, extra credit … gag!

  237. “Say it ain’t so, Joe!”

  238. Isn’t that dissing the sitting president pretty hard, for his party’s vice-presidential nominee to say, ‘Let’s look forward?’

  239. SugarFree | October 2, 2008, 10:10pm | #
    Palin: The ANWR wink.

    Hate that wink. Sends the wrong signals. Could get a man in trouble.

  240. One minute, 15 seconds of local shoutouts and name checks? Really?

  241. Yes, we all love the teachers.

  242. pew pew pew!

  243. Biden goes to Home Depot? Why doesn’t he support small business owners in America?

  244. Lord she is an actual whore

  245. I’m now watching the debate with the sound off and cc caption.

    Listening to the Cubs game.

    I’d like to see a Ron Santo / Palin / Biden debate.

    Dodgers 5
    Cubs 0

  246. Is anyone not drunk at this point in the debate? For fucks sake, this is awful.

  247. “My Main Street is more Main Street-ier than your Main Street!”

  248. Vice president in charge of lame jokes…

  249. More authority to the VP?

    Gak.

  250. Did Palin really just say she wishes the VP had more authority under the constitution?

  251. John McCain already tapped her!

    wooooooooooo

  252. She doesn’t give a shit what she says Ash. A lot of this is new for her.

  253. Biden keeps calling presidential candidates by their first names!!!! Dissin’ the big guys!

  254. Holy cow that’s Gene Healey’s question

  255. “John McCain already tapped her!”

    Is he trading in Cindy like the other one?

  256. I think the MSM will eat the shit sandwich of Palin right up.

  257. Palin: Bush? Why do you keep bringing up old shit?

  258. another good question, I could hug me some Ifill

  259. Wow, I read someone on a blog today saying that Ifill should bring up Cheney’s art I/II stradling, but I thought it was a joke.

  260. I think the words “tapping into” should be added to the drinking game.

  261. When’s the wardrobe malfunction I was promised? Only 13 minutes left, dammit!

  262. Palin=Really fucking condescending.

  263. PALIN YOU MAKE NO SENSE!! YOU ARE THE HUMAN MAD LIB!

  264. Surely if McCain wanted executive experience there were other GOP governors with more of that he could have picked. Puh-leeze.

  265. good answer Joe

  266. Cheney is more dangerous as veep than Aaron Burr?

  267. What does that mean. . . I “wish” the VP had more authority; I “wish” I would win powerball

  268. Mr. Nice Guy | October 2, 2008, 10:16pm | #
    “John McCain already tapped her!”

    Is he trading in Cindy like the other one?

    Sarah or Cindy? I would take Cindy, she scares me, and that’s exciting.

  269. I think you mean “stupid” and “blowhard,” Ifill. Be honest.

    Also, Alaska is a huge state in one definition, but that’s the wrong definition.

  270. Charles-
    ah yes, it was this one, from balko.

  271. Kudos, Joe!

  272. Alaska is an energy producing state!

    Uhh, pimping the special needs kid!

  273. WE GET IT! YOU’RE DOWNHOME AMERICA!

  274. That’s it, I’m done.

    I won’t be voting this year. I’m out.

  275. Reagan said city on a hill? She’s collapsed into self-parody.

  276. Cheney is more dangerous as veep than Aaron Burr?

    Cheney might shoot you in a hunting accident. Burr only shot people on purpose, and who deserve it.

  277. We’re a beacon of hope, so fuck you.

  278. Equal rice! The instant kind!

  279. Okay, Biden gets his (Dems) Roosevelt reference in, Palin gets her (Reps) Reagan in too! WHew!

  280. must be nice to have such a static existence

  281. did she just say ‘equal rice’ instead of rights? Quick, check her purse for a copy of Maos little red book.

  282. Fucking Christ. She just attributed “Shining City on the Hill” to Reagan. Jesus Fucking Christ. I think the worst thing is that nobody knows/will care.

  283. Biden… just too passionate.

  284. “my excessive passion”?

    mouth-vomit

  285. he hasn’t changed, but he is working for change? oops

  286. SIV-

    Biden certainly sounded smarter, but his explanation of the VP’s job has no more basis in history or the Constitution than Palin.

    The idea of the VP as an active part of the executive branch is something that’s more or less a post-WWII invention.

  287. Hey, props to Biden for admitting he’s not poor anymore, and for sticking up for mens rights!

  288. and you may ask yourself: How did I get here?

  289. Biden is a much better mom than palin, bitches

  290. Was that a real teary moment or some kind of sick head game?

  291. maverick count at four

    cover your heads people

  292. Palin is the professional babbler.

  293. Did Biden’s dad really refer to him as “honey?”

    Creepy.

  294. Maverick!

  295. single segment maverick trifecta in play

  296. A TEAM OF MAVERICKS!

    Brett was OK, but Bart was kinda lame.

  297. Biden loves his house. No wonder he voted for the bailout bill.

  298. We have not got to…

  299. Palin doesn’t know what the expression “Achilles’ heel” means.

  300. You mean, love him love him?

  301. maverick backlash!

  302. Malkin thinks Sarah is killing it. God i hate pundits.

  303. Biden: “I just can’t take this maverick crap anymore!”

  304. Did you for Bush’s budget Joe? Did you vote for any of Bush’s stuff?

  305. maverick maverick maverick! I am out of rum.

  306. “Was that a real teary moment or some kind of sick head game?”

    The sad thing is that in politics you never know. I will say though, losing your kids gives one the biggest possible cred to tear up (unlike HRC’s fashion question)…

  307. how to heat the cook?

    bring em in for a threesome?

  308. Biden’s making me drink a lot.

  309. Maybe he calls him “honey,” in, you know, private moments.

  310. Ifill says “Single Issue” !
    I’ve got one of those.

  311. Palin doesn’t know what the expression “Achilles’ heel” means.

    That’s it. She just shamelessly blows off questions and talks about something else, because she probably can’t understand everything Gwen Ifill is saying.

  312. Maybe he calls him “honey,” in, you know, private moments.

    Does he love Israel too?

  313. Palin is a robotic fem-bot…. unfortunately, she was still in beta when released.

  314. What’s the chance you’ll change your mind on the War on Drugs Joe?

  315. because she probably can’t understand everything Gwen Ifill is saying.

    English is tough.

  316. Everyone loves Israel on national TV.

  317. Palin=Cheney II?

    NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

  318. Palin gave a nice answer there

  319. Yeah great at co-operating and all that, but Sarah, did you EVER change your mind… ever? About anything?

  320. WHO DOES NUMBER TWO WORK FOR?!

  321. Palin=Cheney II?

    If Hollywood has taught us anything, sequels are almost always worse.

  322. Palin is either a clueless babbler or an evil conservative genius. Pick one, you partisan hacks.

  323. Joe is going to the pity-well again

  324. Ain’t nothing wrong with insulting Jesse Helms.

  325. “Palin’s sentences are a nightmare to diagram, so I wont: “John McCain has been one representing reform,” for example.”

    Debates are not speeches, just as blogging isn’t literature. Take your own sentence, shown above. Doesn’t “diagram” too well, does it?

  326. coursetad : No really, she’s the Buffy bot, she slays those evil oil companies and fights for reforms. All while wearing cute outfits.

  327. I bet the MSM will declare Palin the “Winner”. Chris Matthews will talk about how she connects with Yuengling-drinking Scranton bowlers or some horseshit.

  328. you appoint people,

    then fire them.

    (to be fair, I think that’s perfectly OK)

  329. Wished Ifill asked something on the lines of, ‘one of the most prosperous times in recent history occurred while the parties were at odds and held by different parties. In recent years we have much more ‘crossing of lines’ and things have been more dicey. Why should the American people want bipartisanship?’

  330. Clueless babbler. Absolutely. Who is proclaiming her to be a genius?

  331. but Sarah, did you EVER change your mind… ever? About anything?

    She used to like Bristol’s boyfriend…

  332. KD, you’re missing the point, she didn’t have to because she worked with others, you know, up there in Alaska, the Heartland of American to help joe sixpack and the working moms who are struggling against the greed of the CEO’s up there on Wall Street and doggonit being mavericks like John McCain who is a real maverick….

  333. yes Biden, never question anyone’s motives. Particularly if they are politicians.

  334. Biden looks pissed he missed happy hour because he had to be at this debate, which to my ear sounds a lot like a school board meeting.

  335. can someone explain to me how tax cuts will be possible when the Fed is trying to push a $700bb bailout? I am really clueless as to how that can be accomplished

  336. Joe, I think the MSM might eat her up, though. Also. Also. Also. And Such as, Also.

  337. Palin=Cheney II

    But really, I’m more reacting to other blogs on the subject.

  338. ‘the hurts’! OUUUCH that hurt

  339. I like to answer the tough questions.

    Unless I wind up answering a completely different set.

    “I’ve always been proud to be an american” is pretty good code word use.

  340. Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution:

    The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.

  341. National security freedom?!

  342. Madbiker – “$700bb bailout” should read “$850 bb bailout”

  343. I’m surprised she didn’t break out into Toby Keith.

  344. Palin’s aim was to come off as “just like you Mr. & Mrs. Joe Heartland of America” and I think she did that.

    Biden’s aim was to be Obama’s pit bull and incredibly boring competent counterpart, and he did that too.

  345. I thought Palin was about to break out into song:

    And I’m proud to be an American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.

  346. jerry: She means the freedom to impose democracy.

  347. Great minds, Ash. Great minds.

  348. Palin wins because she met the incredibly low expectations. And no one asked her about a newspaper. . .

  349. Malkin thinks Sarah is killing it. God i hate pundits.

    They say that in the old Roman Republic on days when politicians would speak from the Rostra they would hire gang members to stand in the audience and loudly cheer whatever they said, on the theory that when the crowd hears cheering they will often join in and cheer along.

    Ultimately the practice became so widepread, however, that there were many occasions when no one was actually present but those whose applause had already been paid for.

    So you had politicians delivering speeches to toadies who were putting on a pantomime…for an audience that no longer existed and had gone home.

    I think we’re at that point in our Republic now. Malkin and every other GOP pundit will lie and say they think Palin did awesome, on the off chance that someone might read their plaudits of her performance and end up thinking they’re genuine. But what they don’t realize is that the audience has done home, and there’s no one left but the fakers from all sides.

  350. So bottom line: final question for the participants on this forum: Who would you rather have “a heart-beat” away from the president’s job?

  351. CB, yah, saw that earlier today. The figure “700bb” is burned in my mind.

    So, Palin says change is coming, but we have to preserve tradition in order to get it…

    Biden says change is necessary, so we can preserve our traditions as American workers…

    I am confused

  352. Ifill’s kind of sweaty.

  353. “I’ve always been proud to be an american” is pretty good code word use.

    Barack Obama doesn’t listen to Lee Greenwood. Would not recognize Greenwood from Glen Campbell.
    Not l’il town america

  354. So the first question is, was this another Sarah Palin disaster, like when she has to talk to journalists who don’t work at Fox?

    The answer is no.

    David Brooks thought this was fascinating and crackling with energy. David Brooks needs to get laid.

  355. I’m watching Fox. Shep just misquoted a few things. Big surprise i know.

  356. “SIV | October 2, 2008, 10:32pm | #

    Palin wins.”

    Wow, who saw that coming?

  357. I’d rather have Palin as President than Mccain , Obama or Biden.

  358. There Binden goes with that “when you’re knocked down you get up crap” again.

    America hasn’t been “knocked down” in the first place.

    Furthermore, all his (and Obama’s) ideology is based on the notion that nobody CAN get up – they have to be picked up by the government.

  359. Neither. I’m hoping they replace her with a sock puppet. Oh wait. She IS a sock puppet.

  360. SIV | October 2, 2008, 10:35pm | #

    I’d rather have Palin as President than Mccain , Obama or Biden.

    I believe you.

  361. Cute family mob.

    I think Palin started to go in for a Biden hug until she remembered where she was.

  362. I’d rather have my Siberian Husky as President than Palin.

    She knows about Russian airspace, too. Also.

  363. I don’t know anyone who relates to palin or people like Palin. Even though I am from poor roots and have mostly lived among working class people my whole life, I guess I am an elitist.

  364. Palin is Huckabee in a dress, with McCain’s Peronism grafted onto her like a second head.

    I’d rather have Hillary than Palin at this point.

  365. Who said we don’t have choices? I have a choice in how to get screwed: democrat style or republican style.

  366. There Binden goes with that “when you’re knocked down you get up crap” again.

    He’s trying to make his relationship with his father sound normal after that “honey” thing.

  367. SugarFree | October 2, 2008, 10:36pm | #
    Cute family mob.

    I think Palin started to go in for a Biden hug until she remembered where she was.

    I agree SF, and I think Biden was disappointed not to get it!

  368. SIV, can you point to what you like about Palin? A policy position? Or is it some wierd identity politics thing (she hunts and fishes and talks like my aunt kind of thing?)?

  369. lol, Ifill just said great job to Biden while her mic was still open, but said nothing of the sorts towards Palin. I call shenanigans!

  370. Yeah, Biden’s health care/tax lecture was probably the strongest moment of the debate.

  371. Biden says change is necessary, so we can preserve our traditions as American workers…

    I am confused

    Biden even in his most bat shit crazy moments has the demeanor of a highly competent prosecutor in court. That is why it really doesn’t matter what is actually said even when he is chasing the ghost of deregulation.

  372. I call shenanigans!

    I’ll go get my broom

  373. “Palin is Huckabee in a dress”

    fluffy, Huckabee is a bright guy and slick talker, Palin not so much

  374. Palin did great, setting Biden’s twists straight. I find it funny how Biden talks about what American families are talking about around the dinner table, such as not being able to send a teen back to college. Yeah! With him and Obama taxing the middle class to death, they won’t. Gas prices so high? Well gee, if we stopped getting our oil from countries that hate us, and started drilling here, we can save the environment AND lower prices.

    Wow, what an idea.

  375. Come on, Ferraro! Give us some good crazy!

  376. There Binden goes with that “when you’re knocked down you get up crap” again.

    It’s what’s he singing when he’s winning.

  377. Uh, somehow I don’t see Huckabee saying that gay people should be equal to straight people under the law. Unless Jesus says they are, of course.

  378. Damn you, Valium! Although she has some good bed head.

  379. “With him and Obama taxing the middle class to death, they won’t. ”

    imd, I don’t know how to break this to you but most of the middle class sends their kids to college with government subsidization and grants. You know, paid for with tax money…

  380. Why are there so many people posting tonight??

  381. Anyone else wanting the last hour and a half of their life back?

  382. Checking other blogs, I’m seeing a lot of praise for Palin and complaints about Biden’s “washingtonese.” I don’t hear it.

    Where do you live, Dave?

  383. Office not on.

  384. Mr. Nice Guy-

    And those same subsidies are why prices are so high that people can’t afford college on their own.

  385. Huckabee is a bright guy and slick talker, Palin not so much

    OK, fine. She’s Huckabee in a dress…with massive brain damage.

  386. Sixteen years ago, before I started voting Libertarian, I used to have a strategy for when I didn’t know anything about a candidate. First rule: vote against the incumbent. Second rule: vote for the woman.

    It was my way of voting for “change” (and chaos), so yeah… I’d vote for Palin before I’d vote for McCain, Obama or Biden.

    CB

  387. The media is having Palingasm Part II.

  388. Bingo | October 2, 2008, 10:41pm | #
    Why are there so many people posting tonight??

    No good movies on in my area, and I only watch free movies.

  389. And ditto on lack of the Office

  390. BDB, how’d you do?

    I was only 1 space away from Bingo in several directions, dammit!

  391. I don’t know anyone who relates to palin or people like Palin.

    I do. They’re nice most of the time. They can be scary at other times.

    Even though I am from poor roots and have mostly lived among working class people my whole life, I guess I am an elitist.

    I’ve learned not to apologize to my “regular guy” friends when I being an elitist or to my elitist friends when I’m being a “regular guy”. I am what I am.

  392. Liberty Mutual: Or, you know, she could have early voted by mail. Wankers.

    LIGHTNING ROUND!

  393. Pundits suck. ALL PUNDITS SUCK.

    Bored now.

  394. People really though Palin did well? I was rooting for her not to be an embarrassment and thought she failed.

  395. The problem that McCain (and by derivation Palin) has is that he accepts too many premises of the left to be able to effectively counter Obama/Bidens crap about the financial crisis being caused by “deregulation” , the global warming nonsense, the “we don’t call it redistribution, we call it fairness” crap, etc. etc.

    On that last bit of nonsense by Biden, Palin should have replied that redistribution is a specific economic term and it is most certainly an economic fact that Obama’s policies constitute redistribution. And she should have followed it up by stating the Obama does not “own” the definition of “fairness” and that taking money away from the people who earned to to give to people who didn’t has nothing to do with “fairness”.

  396. If I was forced to choose a bunch of right-wing fundamentalists to live next door to me, I could do a lot worse than Puck Bunny Sarah and her lovely family. Maybe Todd would take us out on his boat or plane.

  397. There’s a reason why Michle Norris is on the radio.

  398. Mr. Nice Guy,

    Yeah that might be true, but those loans come back to them with interest rates, which ultimately means more than they would have paid in the first place so what now?

    Florida kind of has the right idea, the lottery pays for many students’ scholarships.

  399. “And those same subsidies are why prices are so high that people can’t afford college on their own.”

    Yeah Andy, that’s why so much more of our population goes to college now compared to back before the subsidies!

    Libertarians can’t have it both ways, I hear it argued that the government subsidy of college makes it so common it devalues everyone’s degree and the next guy says the government subsidy makes the prices so high most people who could go can’t. Keep trying Andy

  400. MNG,

    I like Palin more than the other candidates because she is more “outside” the system.She is a popular governor of a very free State and is a true “small government conservative”. Too bad she has to run with McCain at the top of the ticket.

  401. Mass. used to have a lesbian GOP Governor? Why didn’t I ever know this?

  402. I think this debate killed me a little inside.

  403. imd
    Yes, the concept of loans, even subsidized ones, is that you tend to pay back the principal AND some interest. Why in the world does anybody ever use them?

    WTF?

  404. Right wing fundies usually make good neighbors.

  405. On that last bit of nonsense by Biden, Palin should have replied that redistribution is a specific economic term and it is most certainly an economic fact that Obama’s policies constitute redistribution.

    As the VP candidate of the GOP, Palin has absolutely no right to talk to anyone about redistribution.

    Last time I checked, I didn’t see anything in the GOP platform about scrapping Social Security. Or Medicare.

    Not to mention the $850 billion “redistribution” Bush is shepherding through the Congress with McCain’s help right now.

    You know why I hate Republicans? Because when a Democrat talks about redistribution, Republicans feel entitled to respond. When if they had any moral sense they’d be too ashamed to open their mouths.

  406. Weigel

    Show, don’t tell, Sarah. “Boy, it’s clear that I’m a Washington outsider! Americans are cravin’ that straight talk!” The goal is to portray Biden as speaking incomprehensible beltway speak and blur the issues. In this round it’s a bit more effective, but generally.

    She made a classic rookie mistake here. Some adviser was giving her strategy tips and she took those to be talking points instead.

  407. SIV
    I kind of see your point. Alaska does have neat politics (Ted Stevens for example is not against abortion in any strong way, the right to privacy is actually explicitly in their constitution).

    But in another way it is hard to see her being defined as a small government type, one of the things she was and is most proud of is fighting for “the biggest public infrastructure in North America” to be built…

  408. SIV | October 2, 2008, 10:52pm | #
    Right wing fundies usually make good neighbors.

    Homer?

  409. Yo Polysaccharide! You been drinkin’? Jane Swift is not a lesbian — she’s the first governor to give birth while in office. Guess who’s second.

  410. Palin tried to Kobayashi Maru the debate. She only partially succeeded. It was the only way she could do it without looking inept, however.

    Biden held his own, but probably lost the audience with some of his answers.

    Overall, not a game changer. The top of the ticket is still what matters.

  411. Mr. Nice Guy,
    The point is, if big government wasn’t stealing so much money from the American people then they would have more money. Which means they’d have to take out a smaller loan, and they would be able to pay back that loan faster.

  412. Six,

    David Crosby donated again? Why do lesbians want to keep having his kids?

  413. Libertarians can’t have it both ways, I hear it argued that the government subsidy of college makes it so common it devalues everyone’s degree and the next guy says the government subsidy makes the prices so high most people who could go can’t.

    But that’s not an example of “both ways”.

    Directing a spigot of money at a particular sector of the economy will cause that sector to expand to meet that artificial demand. So it’s not surprising that beginning with the GI bill and continuing on from there through the other government programs designed to assist with higher education, the number of college “seats” available nationwide skyrocketed.

    At the same time, the price structure of the higher education industry as a whole shifted to reach equilibrium with what students could pay, including government assistance.

    So it’s entirely fair to say that government spending on higher education dramatically increased the number of people who pursued higher education, while at the same time making both students and colleges dependent on that same assistance.

  414. I was two spaces away :(.

  415. Biden wins, if you actually listened?.

    I’m sick and tired of both of ’em (especially Palin) droppin’ the G off of everythinG. I get why she does it – evidently she’s goin’ fer what someone is telling her is the countrified/illiterate vote, but why does Biden have to match her? Brings both of them down in my eyes (Biden didn’t have far to fall anyway.).

    Palin narrowly lost the 1st 3rd, won the 2nd (Energy) and massively lost the last third. But then I was actually listening to what was actually said.

    She avoided most of the questions. To be fair, Biden avoided them when it was convenient, but he won point by point. Some of her answers were not even in the same Galaxy in relation to the questions, while he was on point almost across the board.

    I’m also sick to my stomach listening to the various spin-meisters doing their fact-avoidance.

    Outta here?.

  416. Right wing fundies usually make good neighbors.

    Stupid Flanders!

  417. Right wing fundies usually make good neighbors.

    Unless you’re gay. Or a Buddhist.

    And powers neither celestial nor mundane may help you if you are a gay Buddhist.

    But sure! They’re great neighbors to have if you’re just like them.

  418. Ele, I suppose you prefer the reek of compost and boiling cabbage?

    The best neighbors are the ones you don’t know well enough to know their political inclinations. Just wave and keep your goddamn garbage cans out of my driveway.

  419. SF-

    just because her husband is, I kid you not, Chuck Hunt, doesn’t make her a lez.

  420. She is a popular governor of a very free State

    Yeah, *they’re* free, but they want the rest of us to be slaves so that they don’t have to actually tax themselves to pay for infrastructure. The entire state is one big fucking Welfare Queen.

  421. What? Is she your mom or something? I’m just making a juvenile joke about an extremely mannish women I saw for 30 seconds on the TV.

    But if “Chuck Hunt” isn’t a FTM name, I don’t know what is…

  422. She squeezed another thousand dollars out of the oil companies for a windfall to each Alaskan. If she isn’t getting eighty percent approval ratings it would be miracle.

  423. OK, have to get this laptop off of my boys.

    By the way, IFC is showing three fine slasher movies tonight: Halloween, The Burning, and Madman. The last two are shameless Friday the 13th rip-offs. And awesome.

  424. Ele, I suppose you prefer the reek of compost and boiling cabbage?

    The best neighbors are the ones you don’t know well enough to know their political inclinations. Just wave and keep your goddamn garbage cans out of my driveway.

    I disagree (not on the compost thing, but on the rest.) I appreciate those who I can have a civil conversation on issues without trying to be persuaded or saved or enlightened (or to do so in return). A neighborhood is not Reason Hit & Run. I like to hear what other people have to say without gearing up for verbal battle.

    Some people can only handle the wave-as-you-go-by thing, and that’s cool. My point is that more than any single group I have ever lived near, right wing fundies are the least likely to stay quiet if they have nothing civil to say.

  425. On that last bit of nonsense by Biden, Palin should have replied that redistribution is a specific economic term and it is most certainly an economic fact that Obama’s policies constitute redistribution. And she should have followed it up by stating the Obama does not “own” the definition of “fairness” and that taking money away from the people who earned to to give to people who didn’t has nothing to do with “fairness”.

    If Huckabee was a woman, McCain probably would have picked him and would have been in a much better position than he is now.

    McCain was trying for a two-fer with Palin: He wanted to pick up disaffected Hillary Clinton voters and at the same time, energize the religious right base. She seems to have done the latter to a degree (though I have heard a few VERY pro-life and otherwise right-wing Christians telling me they can’t can’t vote for a ticket with her on it since her interviews). I don’t think he was so successful in attracting the Clinton voters as for the most part, they seem offended that he thinks that Palin is enough to warrant their votes. I think they regard it as a sexist move.

    A female Huckabee would have been a much better choice and might have made this election much closer now even with the economic problems.

  426. Right wing fundies usually make good neighbors.

    I live in Virginia. The best possible neighbors here are mormons. They have all the good points of other Christians (polite, quiet, friendly, helpful, etc.), but as a persecuted minority here, they’re careful about being too pushy with the whole religion thing.

  427. My prayers are for anybody whose drinking game cue was “maverick.”

    I think her willigness to grant privilages to same sex unions will be a BIG downer for the christians republicans.

    She didn’t really say she agreed with Cheney’s definition of vice-presidential powers, did she?

  428. Honeslty, I’d be more offended if they didn’t think I was worth saving. I’m generally open to “witnessing”. I was raised in a family like that, so I know what it means and how important it is to them.

  429. The best possible neighbors here are mormons. They have all the good points of other Christians (polite, quiet, friendly, helpful, etc.), but as a persecuted minority here, they’re careful about being too pushy with the whole religion thing.

    Middle class Mormons are actually good neighbors to have in most places. The fact that nobody goes directly to Hell combines with the typical class-based concern for worldly things to make them mellow and bring out the “be good to people” aspects of the theology. Poor Mormons are awful, though.

  430. I live in Virginia. The best possible neighbors here are mormons. They have all the good points of other Christians (polite, quiet, friendly, helpful, etc.), but as a persecuted minority here, they’re careful about being too pushy with the whole religion thing.

    There not persecuted here, but they are a minority. And you’re right, they tend not to be pushy.

    And they, as a rule, are *very* polite. Painfully so, sometimes. Like, *would give R. Heinlein a boner* polite.

  431. They’re, for fuck’s sake. I hate grammar at night.

  432. I hate grammar at night.

    Yeah, she starts drinking right after dinner and is a total pain until she passes out.

  433. I’ve been quite disappointed with Palin for several reasons, but I would rather live next door to her and Todd that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. And I practically do live next door to Wasserman-Schultz. Ugh.

  434. The town in Idaho where I graduated high school was about 50% Mormon and 40 % Mexican migrants. The mormons there, even having the majority, were very pleasant and unassuming. That town had the strongest sense of family of anywhere I’ve ever been.

  435. She didn’t really say she agreed with Cheney’s definition of vice-presidential powers, did she?

    I think technically she said she did. But if you can discern what the fuck she was talking about on that question ill give you 600 quatloos.

  436. Fundies may be pushy, but I’ll take them over the many “Enlightened” Buddhist douchebags I always seem to meet.

  437. boston, as near as i could tell, she was saying that her job as veep would be to ram legislation through that McCain wanted passed and that in that and other things, she agreed with Cheney. But she is all mavricky and stuff, so I guess it’s okay?

  438. That wasn’t a debate, it was a platitude trade. Whatever happened to making a point and using logical arguments to defend it?

    Palin just talked in talking points, but Biden was downright duplicitous. And the populist nonsense from both of them was disheartening.

  439. Fundies may be pushy, but I’ll take them over the many “Enlightened” Buddhist douchebags I always seem to meet.

    You must live near some seriously aggro Buddhists. Do they cast vicious names and judgments about like confetti while calling down the wrath of the magical sky-fairy to consign you to endless torment?

    Or do they merely look vaguely bored with you? That’s what the ones I know do. And yeah, it is annoying. But more annoying than the other thing?

  440. I didn’t want to watch the debate because I was afraid that Palin would embarrass herself. And now I’m just insulted that she didn’t answer anything she didn’t want to. Not only that, but at one point she criticized Biden for “looking backwards” when the freaking question was about the Bush Administration.

  441. I thought she looked dumb and smug, but I suspect Joe Sixpack or Billy Whateverdrug probably bought into her feisty demeanor.

  442. mr simple | October 2, 2008, 11:50pm | #
    That wasn’t a debate, it was a platitude trade. Whatever happened to making a point and using logical arguments to defend it?

    Welcome to America. First visit?

  443. Lamar, I suspect that she made every point she was coached to make. Unfortunately, she made them all at the wrong times.

  444. Does joe sixpack like being address as joe sixpack?

  445. addressed*

  446. Leave me out of it man. I drink to drown out that chiming noise her voice makes.

  447. and its not as if these were trick questions. other than the gay marriage question (which i thought was out of left field) all of these could have been anticipated to the nth degree. and i still thought she was woeful. maybe i just have pds (which i have mocked my more leftish friends for)

  448. PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.

  449. A lot of the commentators are saying that Palin’s performance will appeal to regular folks. When did they stop giving their opinions and start being amateur prognosticators? You know, I can read a damn poll.

  450. “PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president.”

    Activist Vice Presidents?

  451. Didn’t the Federation create a way to destroy the Borg by introducing to them some *almost but not quite coherent* math problem that they’d see an *almost but not quite pattern* in and try to solve, and then their collective brains would melt down trying to piece it together?

    The perfect metaphor for Palin Derangement Syndrome.

    Every time she speaks, she strings together some words that are clearly nouns, verbs, and adjectives, in roughly the right grammatical order. And some of those specific words seem like they would pertain to the subject of the moment. But, something lingers always beyond my grasp, and when I try to connect the dots, my head really starts to hurt, so I have to stop and go do something else.

  452. When did they stop giving their opinions and start being amateur prognosticators?

    ’08 commentators, as a group, will not win any awards for their perspicacity.

  453. I could tell Palin that I don’t like her because she’s dangerous. But she’s Maverick, and that’s right, Ice Man, she is dangerous.

  454. Elemenope,

    not to toot my own horn, but when she was going through the VP question.

    https://www.reason.com/blog/show/129241.html#1100091

  455. “’08 commentators, as a group, will not win any awards for their perspicacity.”

    I watched Keith Olbermann trudge through some kind of “fairness doctrine” interview with Linda Lingle, Republican governor of Hawaii. I enjoyed watching him in pain. He was and is a dick, but something stopped him from full vinegar and water.

  456. Yeah, VP Mad Libs is a good one too.

    But Mad Libs are harmless and fun. I tend to think about it as more insidious, like a mental virus. I think that may be just my elitist bias against anyone who can’t pull together a complete and logically ordered verbal paragraph to answer a simple policy question.

    I don’t know.

  457. i think if you gave her a 50 question short answer test with terms like “unitary executive” “extraordinary rendition” and “stare decisis.” The over under of her correct explanations would be about 26. maybe.

  458. Query: Discuss the Unitary Executive Theory and its impact on American history.

    Response: The stakes for our nation could not be higher. When a hurricane strikes in the Gulf of Mexico, this country should not be so dependent on imported oil that we are forced to draw from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And families cannot throw away more an more of their paychecks on gas and heating oil.

    Query: Discuss the impact of America’s use of extraordinary rendition on the nation’s stature in international affairs.

    Response: I fought to bring about the largest private-sector infrastructure project in North American history. And when that deal was struck, we began a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence. That pipeline, when the last section is laid and its valves are opened, will lead America one step farther away from dependence on dangerous foreign powers that do not have our interests at heart.

    Query: How will a McCain-Palin administration’s judicial appointees respect stare decisis?

    Response: Politics isn’t just a game of clashing parties and competing interests. The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.

    Verdict: What a maverick!

  459. But Palin has one virtue nobody has mentioned. She’s such a freaking idiot that she has NO agenda.

    This is not a bad thing, taken all by itself.

    Obama is a dedicated socialist. McCain is a populist bully and b’gosh some heads are gonna roll by the time he’s done.

    You think Bush has had a hard time selling his agenda to the nation? Picture her trying to do it. She’ll flop and thrash like a fish out of water and nothing will happen.

    Monday Headlines: President Palin Said Something

    Tuesday Headlines: President Palin Said Something Again and It Sounds Like She Means It

    The best way to slow the growth of government may be to decapitate it. Palin would not be a bad place to start.

    If you could put her at the top of the ticket, I’d be sorely tempted to try this theory out. Because all the other options make me want to barf.

  460. Elemenope, I have never met a Buddhist who wasn’t a condescending twat. Mostly they just talk about how they’re so much smarter and enlightened that the stupid, superstitious Christians. Conversly, most Christians I know will prostylitize (I think that’s how you spell it), but never wish me any actual ill will. So yes, Buddhists are more annoying.

  461. Kyle, the one benefit of buddhists I’ve seen is that you never have any trouble getting them to leave you alone. Christians who are trying to save souls, not always so much.

  462. “I have a choice in how to get screwed: democrat style or republican style.”

    If I have to be screwed against my will, I’d prefer it to be vanilla. God only knows what “democrat style” might entail.

  463. “The best way to slow the growth of government may be to decapitate it. Palin would not be a bad place to start.”

    We tried that already with Bush.

  464. But Buddhiss always just seem so damn smug. Almost punchably so. As Daniel F. said, I would find it much more offensive if they didn’t try to save me. To me it indicates that they believe that I have enough redeeming qualities that they are willing to tolerate my presence in some sort of afterlife.

  465. We tried that already with Bush.

    No no, the theory says we just didn’t lower the bar enough.

  466. Thanks, you guys are awesome. Reading that was far less painful (and more entertaining) than I’m sure watching the actual debate would have been.

    Does anybody else wish we could amend the Constitution so that elections are fought with guns?

  467. Kyle,

    Those aren’t Buddhists. Those are Dharma Bums.

    Actual Buddhists don’t give a crap about your religion.

    We’re got actual Buddhists walking around in saffron robes in my city, and they are exactly the opposite of smug twats.

  468. Does anybody else wish we could amend the Constitution so that elections are fought with guns?

    I said last time around, the president should be the outcome of a conventional pistol duel. Ten paces and fire.

    I figure this favors small people getting into the White House, because they’re harder to hit.

    I suggest we extend the same to all nationally elected positions.

    Of course, I’m in the market for a whole new theory on how to deal with government, now that split government and all the old stuff doesn’t seem to be worth crap anymore.

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