Lipstick Traces

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Barack Obama, on his week-long tear against the McPalin ticket, plays the analogy card.

"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said as the crowd cheered. "It's still a pig."

"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink."

"We've had enough of the same old thing."

The McPalin campaign erupts. Jim Antle has this basically right.

Yes, Palin wears lipstick and compares herself to a pitbull wearing lipstick but that's the only connection. To quibble about the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" is to put conservatives in the same category as illiterate PC liberals worried about the word "niggardly."

Driving home last night, I caught a few minutes of a right-wing talk radio show (one that had surely never aired a sexist remark about Hillary Clinton) and heard the spin that, well, Obama must have been making a sexist comment because presidential candidates don't talk like this. Take it, Dick Cheney.

John Kerry is trying every which way to cover up his record of weakness on national defense. But he can't do it. It won't work. As we like to say in Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on that pig, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig.

Fred Thompson?

He dishes corn pone with a master's touch. "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig"; "that dog don't hunt"; Congressional efforts to give amnesty to illegal immigrants are "like selling a horse twice."

That was provided as an example of Thompson's "homey" touch, which was probably what Obama, brow-beaten for being unrelatable, was going for. So, Tom Tancredo?

I am disappointed but not surprised that the president has once again chosen to trot out this same old pig, albeit one with a slightly new shade of lipstick.

Finally, that crusader for gender equality, John McCain.

When asked about Mrs. Clinton his speech, he said her proposal was "eerily" similar to the plan she came up with in 1993, when she headed a health care reorganization effort during her husband's administration. "I think they put some lipstick on a pig," he said, "but it's still a pig."

We've got 56 days until the election. How many of them can McCain spend hiding behind Palin's skirt?

UPDATE: Ed Morrissey falls for a video press release from the McCain campaign (it's not an "ad" if it's 37 seconds long and doesn't contain an endorsement from the candidate) and claims that Obama gave Clinton the finger once… based on a video in which he scratches his face with his middle finger partially extended.

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  1. This is about as stupid as when liberals accused the “celebrity” ads of being racist because they had blonde females in them.

  2. Damn, not even Hillary Clinton played the gender car this implausibly. And she played some pretty implausible gender cards.

  3. We’ve got 56 days until the election. How many of them can McCain spend hiding behind Palin’s skirt?

    57.

  4. I thought they would wait until the Biden-Palin debate before doing something like this. Do they know some kind of polling we don’t know that says they needed to do this?

  5. As long as Obama continues to go after Palin, McCain is best served by laying low. The more he compares himself with Palin, the more he actually exposes his weaknesses.

    He needs to go after McCain, where he has a decided edge in likability.

  6. So where is Bob Barr?

  7. “We’ve got 56 days until the election. How many of them can McCain spend hiding behind Palin’s skirt?”

    If it works? All the way to the Whitehouse. If the Obama camp doesn’t like the manufactured outrage, tough shit. The Democrats have been manufacturing outrage over insignificant comments for years. Perhaps they should have thought about one their guy saying something dumb or something that can be misinterpreted some day.

    Why does Obama give such a lame ass stupid speech that gives his oponents something to talk about and a way to take him off message? What ever happened to hope and change and all of that? He just sounds like a typical partisian hack now. I thought he was supposed to be different?

    This is an ankle biter. But really so was “clinging to their guns and religion”, although a more substanative one. The ankle biters have a way of adding up. I thought Obama was supposed to be this genius orator. I guess everyone has an off day.

  8. “So where is Bob Barr?”

    Hiding behind Wayne Root’s skirt?

  9. So where is Bob Barr?

    In a room with Wayne Root, trying to convince him to STFU for the next two months.

  10. All I want is for the McCain campaign to STOP WHINING! What a bunch of woosies! I don’t want a bunch of crybabies in charge of MY country. Does anyone here believe that other foreign powers will give Palin “deference” or pull punches?

    America is not a country of whiners! ENOUGH!

  11. I think most sane people (look off of the internet) would agree that if a candidate describes herself as a “pitbull with lipstick” and then you say “you can put lipstick on a pig,” you just called her a pig.

  12. So it would have been kosher had Obama directly compared her to a vicious breed of dog?

  13. Enjoy:
    .
    .
    .

    Sarah Palin is a bit comical, like one of those cutthroat Texas cheerleader stage moms. What her Down syndrome baby and pregnant teenage daughter unequivocally prove, however, is that her most beloved child is the antiabortion platform that ensures her own political ambitions with the conservative right. The throat she’s so hot to cut is that of all American women.

    .
    .
    .

    I did not think that women being downgraded to second-class, three-holed chattel would be a pressing concern in my lifetime. I thought it was like polio, or witch burning — an inhumane error that had already been corrected.

    .
    .
    .

    Sarah Palin and her virtual burqa have me and my friends retching into our handbags. She’s such a power-mad, backwater beauty-pageant casualty, it’s easy to write her off and make fun of her. But in reality I feel as horrified as a ghetto Jew watching the rise of National Socialism.

    She is dangerous. She is not just pro-life, she’s anti-life. She is the suppression of human feeling and instinct. She is a slave to the compromises dictated by her own desire for power and control. Sarah Palin is untethered from her own needs and those of her family, which is in crisis, with a pregnant daughter, a son on the way to Iraq and a special-needs infant.

  14. claims that Obama gave Clinton the finger once.

    Just once? I don’t know. On the one hand I think I’d be seriously impressed if he flat out flipped him off. But that would just be the first step down a long muddy road. Guess it’s best if our presidential candidates behave, err presidential.

  15. How the news media cover elections:

    Step one: “Candidate A, Candidate B said something that might me interpreted as mean. How does that make you feel?”

    Step two: Reverse the question.

    Step three: Repeat.

    Oy.

  16. Ho hum. Obama loses more votes with women, it’s his own damn fault.

  17. Calling a woman a pig is a pretty common insult and one that has pretty specific connotations about women. According to dictionary.com “pig” is a “Slang. a slatternly, sluttish woman.” So directly calling Palin a pig would be a real problem and pretty misogynistic.

    But of course, Obama wasn’t doing that. He was referring to McCain’s and Palin’s claim to be agent of change and their platform. What he meant was you can put lipstick on a pig (their platform), but it still will be a pig (4 more years of Bush or whatever). So he wasn’t calling her a pig per say.

    That is fair enough. But, what if McCain or Palin, when referring to Obama’a platform said something to the effect of “you can shave a monkey but it is still a monkey”? People would be going apeshit. The reason of course is that some terms, calling black people apes, calling women pigs, calling cops pigs for that matter, are so incendiary that you really can’t use them in the proximity of their historically intended target. In other words, when you talking about or to a woman, you really can’t use a lot of pig analogies in the same way that using monkey analogies around black people tends to be a problem. I don’t think Obama thought it through that way. But hey, I don’t think Trent Lott really meant to advocate Jim Crow when he was toasting Strom Thurmond. It just came out that way.

  18. To paraphrase our leftoid friends on this board “Context matters.”

    Now all of the sudden they claim there is no difference between a country saying, used generically, and a candidate who directly references another. Shame.

  19. I did not think that women being downgraded to second-class, three-holed chattel would be a pressing concern in my lifetime

    This shit really, really, REALLY needs to be given a rest.

  20. 1. Cintra Wilson is in the middle of such a hategasm, it has impaired her ability to think rationally. Seriously, calm the fuck down. She going to have a hyperbole-aneurysm.

    2. Obama did not call Palin a pig. That’s just silly.

    3. The left forged the weapon of identity politics and just left it lying around. Stop whining when the right picks it up and uses it against you. If the left hadn’t spent 30 years screaming “RASCIST” and “SEXIST” and “LOOKIST” and “SIZIST” at everyone they disagreed with in the slightest, the right wouldn’t be able to do it right back at you.

  21. macaca please, right weigs?

  22. So it would have been kosher had Obama directly compared her to a vicious breed of dog?

    Dogs aren’t kosher either.

    😉

  23. I’m deeply offended by being compared, or even metioned in relation to, a politician.

    Please note my outrage and I demand an apoligy and mandatory diversity training for everyone in America.

  24. OMG I cannot believe there is anyone out there with an ounce of common sense taking anythign that idiot McBush says seriously. Wake up sheeple, snap out of it.

    Jiff
    http://www.anonymize.us.tc

  25. Sugerfree,

    In a sane world, the left would go “this is stupid, we need to stop doing this kind of shit to people”. I am not holding my breath. The answer is going to be how this is nothing but all of the other stupid bullshit and obessessions over off handed comments they have had were really significant and mattered.

    As it is screw them. They would be doing the same thing and if it sticks, all is fair in love and war.

  26. “you can shave a monkey but it is still a monkey” is not a common, frequently-used truism, with a widely-understood meaning distinct form comparing the subject to the animal in quesiton. As all of the quotes in the post demonstrate, “lipstick on a pig” is a frequent cliche.

    I remember seeing it on an ad about investment managers once. “C’mon, people, let’s put some lipstick on this pig,” in reference to recommending a lousy stock to their clients.

  27. macaca please, right weigs?

    Macaca has no meaning, other than as a racial slur.

  28. Again, who compared herself to a vicious dog to begin with?

  29. Sugarfree-

    Nice post! They are indeed being hoisted by their own petard.

  30. PARTY ANIMALS

    NEWSWIRE:
    “…the difference between a hockey mom and a Pit Bull? Lipstick.”
    — Sarah Palin
    “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.”
    — Barack Obama

    If you can let the sleeping Pit Bull lie,
    And avoid the donkey and its hooving,
    Then here’s a rule for pigs you should apply:
    They’re only lying when their lipstick’s moving.

    http://www.newsandverse.com
    Light verse, ripped from the headlines

  31. SugarFree,

    joe commented yesterday on identity politics. Something about the right not using it till now because it’s hard to play identity politics with nothing but white men in camp. That’s a paraphrase of course. I found it to be the funniest truth I have seen in a long time.

  32. In a sane world, the left would go “this is stupid, we need to stop doing this kind of shit to people”. I am not holding my breath.

    Why would they stop doing it? Hell, I don’t even think it would be rational for them to stop. It’s effective. It plays well against the collective guilt taught in public schools.

    I just think they should stop whining about it. Butch up, so to speak.

  33. Listen Sweety, Obama ment it as a jab at Sarah. The crowd laughed. They knew what he ment. For him to play dumb just makes him look like a jerk. Obama, you said it. It was clear to everyone that you were taking a shot at her, for Pete’s sake have integrity to at least stand by you attacks. What a creep.

  34. “you can shave a monkey but it is still a monkey” is not a common, frequently-used truism, with a widely-understood meaning distinct form comparing the subject to the animal in quesiton. As all of the quotes in the post demonstrate, “lipstick on a pig” is a frequent cliche.”

    Of course there are cliches about Monkeys or pots calling kettles black and some such nonsense. You have to be careful how you use them. It was very poorly worded on Obama’s part.

  35. Again, who compared herself to a vicious dog to begin with?

    She should have compared herself to an Aleutian or a Husky. Much more topical and much nicer looking dogs (if you’re into that, you disgusting furry).

  36. The country is in the shitter and the election is being fought over meaningless horse shit. This will not move the polls at all.

  37. Obama should know better than to call Palin a pig. What Palin referred to herself as was a female dog. What’s the word for that again?

  38. No way Obama meant to call Palin a pig.

    But it is funny to see the guy who was running the most wisely cautious campaign get rattled by this.

    I still can’t decide whether McCain was reckless, stupid, brilliant, crazy, or lucky in picking Palin. But it paid off in spades.

  39. brotherben,

    The white right has been using identity politics semi-effectively for a while, just not in race. The “Christians are an oppressed minority” script is identity politics through and through.

    Identity politics insults are not about proving the target is what you claim them to be, but rather small handfuls of mud that you build up on a person or group until you can finally scream “Oh, Christ! IT’S A MUD MONSTER!” and the obedient media take notice.

  40. What’s the word for that again?

    Hillary?

  41. How about this Joe. What if McCain said in a speech “don’t go over to the dark side and vote for Democrats”? People would be having a fit. But what is really insulting about it? Nothing really beyond using the the word “dark” as in “darkie” too close in conext to a black man.

  42. …wait, what?

  43. Isn’t it a little early to say Palin paid off? It’s been a week since she was officially nominated, less than two weeks since she was chosen for God’s sake.

  44. But it paid off in spades.

    RACIST!

  45. But it paid off in spades.

    RACIST!

    Yes! six posts from the subtle set-up to the spike!

  46. BDB | September 10, 2008, 10:01am | #
    Isn’t it a little early to say Palin paid off? It’s been a week since she was officially nominated, less than two weeks since she was chosen for God’s sake.

    I don’t think so, Mc would be dead in the water already with any of the other old white folks.

  47. “What’s the word for that again?

    Hillary?”

    Yes! And you’re apparently supporting, as you say, “Hillary”.

  48. Abdul May-Trainor and SugarFree Walsh.

    But who has the nicer ass?

  49. It’s impossible to prove, yes, but Obama most likely wanted to call up the connection in people’s minds. He was just vague enough that he could hide behind the context. At best, it was a poorly chosen phrase since he’s running against a woman.

    Yes, McCain will have to stop “hiding behind Palin’s skirt.” And Obama will have to quit hiding behind George Bush. George Bush isn’t running for president.

  50. Isn’t it a little early to say Palin paid off? It’s been a week since she was officially nominated, less than two weeks since she was chosen for God’s sake.

    Get serious. Just the Dem reaction to her alone indicates a masterstroke. It amazes me that anyone would deny this. Will it make McCain win? I don’t know. But it sure rattled his opposition.

  51. Obama was being ‘clever’ when he made the comment. Everyone in the audience knew he was making a ‘sly’ reference to Palin’s comments about pitbulls and lipstick when he repeated a very common cliche that he has used in the past.

    Obama should grow some balls and take credit for the insult that he clearly made on purpose.

  52. “Get serious. Just the Dem reaction to her alone indicates a masterstroke. It amazes me that anyone would deny this. Will it make McCain win? I don’t know. But it sure rattled his opposition.”

    Exactly. Did anyone act like this when Bob Dole chose Jack Kemp? Had McCain chosen Pawtawley or some other boring white guy, he would be Bob Dole 2008.

  53. But who has the nicer ass?

    Me, obviously.

  54. Hypothetical:

    If McCain had picked Palin with the same lead-time as Obama picked Biden (i.e Omaba chose 2nd) would Biden be his VP choice? And if not, who would?

  55. Epi,

    Whatever. Have fun at the beach in your Extra-small Speedo Jr. with the rest of New Jersey.

  56. Is this the post-partisan New Kind of Politics that Obama was going to bring to the national scene?

    Sorry, but if you put yourself on a pedestal, you can expect to get slapped around some for calling your opponents a pig and a stinking old fish, respectively.

    Does it really show us who will be a better President? No.

    Is it entertaining as hell? You betcha.

    Didn’t someone say that the Obama-Biden gaffe machine was a ticking time bomb? Obama just lost another news cycle, whatever platitudes about education he was trying to get air time for lost in the (typically shallow) media frenzy. This is a self-inflicted wound, in large part because the Obama campaign has made attacking Sarah Palin the centerpiece of their campaign message.

    Can you imagine the uproar if McCain was to say, while polishing his maverick credentials, that he had always been willing to call a spade a spade? For God’s sake, the Obama campaign is saying that for a white person to say “community organizer” is racist; watching them get hoist on their own petard is nothing more than poetic justice.

  57. We’ve got 56 days until the election. How many of them can McCain spend hiding behind Palin’s skirt?

    David Weigel clearly means that he wants to look up her skirt …to see how big her balls are.

  58. If you watch the video, the crowd seems to eat up the line. They thought it was an insult to Palin. Why else cheer the line? Really, calling the other guy’s platform a “pig” is pretty lame. Calling Palin a pig, now that is some partisian red meat.

  59. “If McCain had picked Palin with the same lead-time as Obama picked Biden (i.e Omaba chose 2nd) would Biden be his VP choice? And if not, who would?”

    Let’s just say a panty hamster would be a requirement.

  60. joe commented yesterday on identity politics. Something about the right not using it till now because it’s hard to play identity politics with nothing but white men in camp. That’s a paraphrase of course. I found it to be the funniest truth I have seen in a long time.

    That was me. I can’t believe I was mistaken for joe. I need to take a shower now. Unclean, unclean.

    John,

    As I said yesterday. If the Obama campaign got pissed off about someone saying, “The pot calling the kettle black,” it would be equally idiotic. One would hope that having a black man running for president and a woman running for VP that got to their lofty positions with hard work rather than traditional grievance politics, would lead to a decline of this bullshit. Instead, both sides have found it convenient to do it more. Though I have to say, between Carly use of sexism for every criticism of Hillary and the McCain campaign getting the vapors (ZOMG, he called me a smelly fish!). The right is much better. I’m impressed at what quick learners they are.

  61. I agree with Episiarch, cut the elementary trivia and give us the real issues!!!

    When do the debates begin????????? When is Sarah going to start speaking for herself and not praising John McCain?

  62. NutraSweet, Obama fucked up royally by picking first and picking Biden. An unexciting pick that then made it Advantage McCain and he aced it FTW. He could sit there and go “who can I pick that will totally shake this shit up?” And he picked right.

  63. “If McCain had picked Palin with the same lead-time as Obama picked Biden (i.e Omaba chose 2nd) would Biden be his VP choice? And if not, who would?”

    Ah, I think that would be a no. I wonder how popular Biden is right now around the Obama campaign. I am guessing not very.

  64. Have fun at the beach in your Extra-small Speedo Jr. with the rest of New Jersey

    Hey, why so serious? Banana-hammock allegations? And Jersey? Just because I was born in Paterson doesn’t mean anything.

  65. Mo, I apologize for the error and any offense it may have caused to you or joe.

  66. Just the Dem reaction to her alone indicates a masterstroke.

    Did anyone act like this when Bob Dole chose Jack Kemp?

    Jack Kemp didn’t seriously offend Democrats.

    Palin has caused at least as much movement of Democrats, like those undecided Hillary voters, towards Obama as Palin caused Republicans to move towards McCain.

    When Republicans go on the attack, nobody sees that as a sign of fear, but that they see blood in the water.

    Does anybody actually think that partisan polarization in 2008 benefits the Republicans?

  67. “One would hope that having a black man running for president and a woman running for VP that got to their lofty positions with hard work rather than traditional grievance politics, would lead to a decline of this bullshit.”

    That is right and why the whole idea that electing this or that minority or woman would end grievence politics is bullshit. Our political culture isn’t mature enough for that. Running a minority or woman just exacerbates it because every criticism becomes more evidence of racism or sexism.

  68. Since I’m unwelcome on both the red and blue teams maybe my perspective is a bit more balanced.

    Lipstick on a pig was not a sexist comment or a personal attack. The phrase is so damned common it’s hackneyed, neither clever nor mean.

    To both sides I remind, What goes around, comes around.*

    * Another hackneyed phrase.

  69. If the attacks on Palin’s record show the Democrats are scared, do the attacks on this comment show the Republicans are scared?

  70. It just slipped out. But he sure as shit said it, and he damn well meant it about Palin.

    He can’t help it, though. They must not have given him a pre-written, analyzed and approved speech that day. He was left on his own.

  71. “Jack Kemp didn’t seriously offend Democrats.” Isn’t that what candidates are supposed to do? Joe, McCain was dead in the water before he chose Palin. Obama had cracked 50 after his convention speech. Now the polls are either dead even or show McCain up. Obama hasn’t been the same candidate since. Watch the video of this speech, he looks week and flustered. Before chosing Palin, McCain had like a 20% chance of winning or maybe less. Now it is 50/50. Palin is the biggest thing to hit politics since I don’t know when. She only offends you because she is kicking your ass.

  72. “Palin is the biggest thing to hit politics since I don’t know when.”

    You have just called her fat and we demand an apology.

  73. Of course Kemp didn’t offend Democrats Joe. He was a loser who had no chance of winning.

  74. “Another hackneyed phrase.”

    You hate taxicabs now?

  75. Joe, McCain was dead in the water before he chose Palin.

    That’s funny, you were saying exactly the opposite at the time. You spent August crowing about how McCain was overtaking Obama.

    FWIW, I think you’re right this time. McCain was not only losing, but the internals of the polls indicated that, if things stayed the same, he was going to fall further and further behind. McCain threw a Hail Mary, because he needed to. Hail Marys sure are exciting when the ball is in the air.

  76. “You hate taxicabs now?”

    No that is racist. Everyone knows that black people drove the carriages for white people.

  77. Does anyone think Palin is going to overplay her hand and drive every guy that’s ever been unfairly accused of making a “sexist” remark into the Democratic camp?

  78. If Palin is a Hail Mary, Biden is a run up the middle.

    Hey, they only picked up two yards on that play.

  79. “McCain threw a Hail Mary, because he needed to. Hail Marys sure are exciting when the ball is in the air.”

    It is not a hail mary joe. That is a bad sports analogy. The better one is that he was behind and changed running backs at half. We are about half way through the third quarter and she is running up and down the field on you. Yeah, there is another quarter to play, but bringing in the new guy seems to have been a good idea.

  80. “Obama should grow some balls…”

    Nah, doesn’t go with the metro-sexual gig. People might starting thinking he owns a gun or thinks people should take responsibility for themselves or something.

  81. It’s hilarious how some people think that vehemently denying how good a pick Palin was for McCain will actually make her a less good pick.

  82. Whoda thunk Obama would hurt poor Palin’s feelings using such a trite metaphor. I guess there’s no polishing this turd.

  83. “I guess there’s no polishing this turd.”

    Hey turds are brown. Stop being racist.

  84. The better one is that he was behind and changed running backs at half. In that analogy, McCain was the old running back? Doesn’t work, because McCain was the quarterback. They switched out their quarterback for a running back? They’re basing their campaign strategy on the Vice-President, and pushing the presidential nominee into the background?

    We are about half way through the third quarter and she is running up and down the field on you.

    I think it’s interesting that Republicans like John attribute the entirety of McCain’s gains over the past week to Palin, despite the fact that the Republicans just held their convention. At this point after Joe Biden’s pick, Obama was up eight points, but nobody claimed that was because of Joe Biden.

  85. It’s hilarious how some people think that vehemently denying how good a pick Palin was for McCain will actually make her a less good pick.

    You haven’t looked at any polling on her, have you?

  86. “No that is racist. Everyone knows that black people drove the carriages for white people.”

    Oh, so now you’re calling Obama “black”? These are outrageous and insulting allegations!

  87. If the Obama camp doesn’t like the manufactured outrage, tough shit. The Democrats have been manufacturing outrage over insignificant comments for years.

    John, I will be on your side in this argument, but only if you agree that this sort of “We’re just doing what the left always does” argument only works if John McCain has no honor and is scum.

    I’ll accept it then. But not until you admit that.

    John McCain is running his campaign based on the claim that his personal honor means that we can trust him to not be just another lying Republican sack of shit. Personally, I think that McCain has no honor at all, and I have been quite vociferous in naming my reasons why. But most of you stubborn GOP types continue to resist and want to stick up for the guy.

    So you can be right this time, but only by admitting that McCain is scum. Because if he wasn’t scum, he wouldn’t lie about what he thinks Obama is saying. If he did in fact have this honor he keeps claiming to have, he would be absolutely forthright at all times, and faux outrage wouldn’t be part of his arsenal. Because you simply can’t simultaneously be an honorable man and a dissembling, mewling, faux outrage spewing fuckwad.

    So take your pick.

  88. “At this point after Joe Biden’s pick, Obama was up eight points, but nobody claimed that was because of Joe Biden.”

    No they don’t Joe. That is because Biden is a loser and Palin is a star. It is not surprising you don’t like her. She is a Republican. But to deny that she saved McCain and is a really big deal and at least so far has been one hell of an asset to McCain and huge threat to Obama, is to just deny reality.

  89. Hold on, libertarians: if this is a case of calling Palin a pig, what really is wrong with calling out the governor of the porkiest pork-state in the mother-earmarking union for porky pork per-capita spending?

  90. joe, do you ever get dizzy and puke from spinning so hard?

  91. John, can you spend a few hours working on comma usage and check back with us tomorrow?

    I won’t ask you to proofread for spelling errors, but maybe you could type your comments in Word and then paste them into the comment box? Just a thought.

  92. “Another hackneyed phrase.”

    You hate taxicabs now?

    Taken one lately?

    The drivers don’t speak the Queen’s English.
    The vehicle smells of crack, cigars and tawdry backseat sex.
    They either don’t know the city and take stupid routes, or
    assume you don’t know the city and take the longest longest route possible to jack up the fare.
    Then they expect a tip and claim they don’t have the change hoping you’ll just say fuck it.

    Yeah, I have issues with the taxicab industry.

  93. Does anybody actually think that partisan polarization in 2008 benefits the Republicans?

    I do, for two reasons:

    It helps with the Repubs no. 1 problem – motivating the base. The Dems, with their consuming hatred of All Things Bush (and you can take that as both a reference to the current lame duck and the VP nominee, if you wish), are already about as partisanly polarized and motivated as they can get. From here on out, more polarization = more Repub votes.

    Right now, voters aren’t too happy with either the Repub President or the Dem Congress. I think partisan polarization may also help those few people who think a divided government is a good thing to vote for McCain, as a check on Pelosi and Reid.

  94. Oh Fluffy quit whinning. Politics is a tough sport. If Obama is so damn smart he should have known better than to make such a lame comment. Further, how do you know he didn’t mean it? Have you read his mind? It is pretty plausable he was calling her a pig. I would prefer to give Obama the benefit of the doubt on that, but nothing says anyone else has to.

  95. I learned a very valuable lesson in a cab a few years ago in NYC. Never tell a cabby you have to get somewhere “as soon as possible.” My life flashed before my eyes so many times on the BQE I finally got bored of watching it.

  96. You haven’t looked at any polling on her, have you?

    Ahh, the polls. Always the last refuge of joe, even though the exit polls failed him so miserably four years ago.

    The election is a virtual tie, joe. Care to cite polls that say differently?

  97. C’mon, John. Why be so niggardly with the leeway you’re giving Obama?

  98. That is because Biden is a loser and Palin is a star. Man, this celebrity worship is getting to be cult-like.

    But let’s break this down:

    Palin is as star, and she caused the Republicans to gain in the polls, not the convention.

    How do we know this?

    Because Palin is a star. Circular logic.

    But to deny that she saved McCain and is a really big deal and at least so far has been one hell of an asset to McCain and huge threat to Obama, is to just deny reality. I haven’t denied that. What I wrote was “Hail Marys are exciting, when the ball is in the air.” The ball is still in the air. And it’s exciting as hell. And you’ve finally agreed that the offensive scheme McCain was using to date wasn’t going to get the ball in the end zone. Will a Hail Mary get the ball in the end zone? We don’t know. That’s what I’ve said.

    Personally, I don’t think it will. Palin is pushing away more women than she’s gaining (so far, at least), while attracting more men. We can count on her rallying the Republican base and increasing their turnout, but that won’t win the election in 2008. Can she win McCain independents? Remains to be seen.

  99. My life flashed before my eyes so many times on the BQE I finally got bored of watching it

    You were able to go faster than 5 MPH on the BQE? Was it 2 AM?

  100. “It is pretty plausable he was calling her a pig.”

    Can I take this moment to say that Palin is a pig? She may have invigorated McCain’s campaign, but its a sad state when a religious whack job saves your campaign.

    “If they succeed in establishing religion as a basic Republican Party tenet, they could do us in.” – Barry Goldwater. We will now officially and openly commence testing of this statement.

  101. joe, do you ever get dizzy and puke from spinning so hard?

    Episiarch, does it ever occur to you to try to argue the facts, instead of judging statements on their partisan implications?

  102. “John McCain says he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

    The only constituency who could possibly be offended by this statement are fish. The accusation that Obama called Palin a pig is-are you sitting down?-a lie. It’s a lie. They think you’ll believe it because they think you’re fools. Fools who can’t read a newspaper or decipher the meaning of a commonplace colloquialism. That’s their opinion of you. (But Obama’s the elitist.)

    Wake up. You don’t have to act like idiots just because McCain tells you to.

  103. 9pm Sunday night and it was snowing. Harrowing.

  104. Obama called Palin a pig. He knows it (even if he didn’t intend it). His audience certainly knew it. I don’t understand how dense Weigel and some of the commenters here must be to not get it.

    Even people who haven’t seen Palin speak have heard about her “lipstick” remark. Palin owned “lipstick” this month, if not for this campaign. It was her brand. Not Hillary’s, nor any other person’s in this campaign. Obama knew it, or should have known it. He was trying to see what he could get away with. He still is.

  105. RC Dean,

    No question, Palin is going to help Republican turnout by firing up the Republicans. The thing is, she’s firing up Democrats, too. In 2008, such a war of attrition benefits the Democrats.

    As for divided government…I’m not sure how big a chunk of the electorate thinks in those terms. Maybe.

  106. Did somebody link us to Red State or LGF? Or the McCain website?

  107. joe, I’m going to clue you in to something. You’re a classless partisan bimbo who is just enough of a clever monkey to shill relentlessly for your god and master. I can’t be the only person around here who is sick to death of you pissing down the collective libertarian back and claiming it’s not raining in regards to Obama.

    I’d say “fuck off” if your pathetic fellations of Obama weren’t so entertaining. Make sure you use tongue, joe, and always remember to rub under the balls.

  108. Palin is pushing away more women than she’s gaining (so far, at least), while attracting more men.

    According to the polling analysis on TNR,s the Plank, Palin’s doing pretty well w/ mothers, but has little impact on single women.

    You really can’t deny that Palin put John McCain back in the game. She’s getting more press. McCain rallies are starting to attract enough people to fill a Denny’s. Every Hit & run thread on palin goes over 100 comments. Sure, half of those are Epi quoting Aqua Teen, but it still shows a level of excitement that the GOP was lacking beforehand.

  109. Further, how do you know he didn’t mean it? Have you read his mind?

    I knew you would say something like that, so before posting I carefully reviewed your previous posts to make sure that you personally had described this incident as manufactured outrage.

    That means that for the purposes of this discussion, we can no longer pretend that we’re dealing with anything but manufactured outrage.

    Unless you want to be even more dishonest than McCain. Because trying to back off that statement now would mean that your strategy in this argument is to deflect all criticism of McCain’s claim by saying, “Of course it’s manufactured outrage, but the left does that even more!” but then when called to account for that, to twist around and try to pretend something completely different. Faux outrage wrapped in a suit of armor made of faux sophistication. The Doublemint gum of scum.

    I’ll stop “whining” when you admit that Senator McCain has no honor. If politics is such a tough guy’s game and you’re such a hardboiled character, it shouldn’t matter to you to admit that. Admit it, and laugh about how he’s pulling one over on all the bluehairs and dumbass independents out there. Why can’t you do that? Something tells me it’s because you’re somehow invested in the lie, but I’m not entirely sure why.

  110. But what if McCain = Tom Brady, and while the ball is in the air he suffers a season-ending injury?

    Sorry if this hits too close to home, joe.

  111. What kind of person thinks about putting lipsticks on pigs?

    Why would anyone want to do that? Or even think about doing it?

  112. Why would anyone want to do that? Or even think about doing it?

    Too match the pig’s eyeshadow, you idiot.

  113. Palin is as star, and she caused the Republicans to gain in the polls, not the convention.

    How do we know this?

    Because Palin is a star.

    No, because white women having been switching to Team Red in droves. What, they’re big on conventions?

    I don’t like it, but common sense says it’s true. The biggest weakness that was seen in the Palin pick was that it took away what up to that point was McCain’s biggest asset, experience. But instead, they co-opted Obama’s shtick, “change.” The oldest trick in politics.

    As for the “pig”, I don’t claim to know what Obama was thinking, but electorate’s reaction is ultimately more important, and John makes a good point that the reaction of the audience at the speech is key.

  114. Ahh, the polls. Always the last refuge of joe

    Darn me and my faith in scientific inquiry over feelings!

    …even though the exit polls failed him so miserably four years ago Actually, I derided the exit polling right in these comment threads four years ago. Exit polling, unlike other polls, introduce a huge selection bias problem, since they weren’t corrected to anything.

    The election is a virtual tie, joe. Care to cite polls that say differently? No, the election is either a tie, or McCain is slightly in the lead, at this moment. At this same point after the Democratic convention, Obama was up by 6-8 points. BTW, three days ago, McCain had a clear lead.

    But I was referring to polling specifically on Palin, and VP choices. In questions about “does the VP pick make you more or less likely to vote for X” questions, Palin scores one point higher than Joe Biden, and this is in the days immediately following the Republican convention.

    Look, I didn’t get all excited about the polls shooting up for Obama after his convention, because that would be silly.

  115. I prefer this analogy:

    “You can put a condom on a penis, but it is still a dick and we’re getting fucked.”

  116. I can’t be the only person around here who is sick to death of you pissing down the collective libertarian back and claiming it’s not raining in regards to Obama.

    Epi, care to explain to me exactly HOW IN THE FUCKING HIGH HOLY HELL joe is “pissing down the collective libertarian back” when he pisses on McCain and/or Palin?

    Come on, explain it all to me.

    There are threads where I suppose you could take joe to task for his partisanship, but in the context of a dispute between the Obama camp and the McCain camp, what does it matter? What does that have to do with libertarians? At all?

    Joe could personally shove a handful of Obama’s shit into McCain’s mouth and it wouldn’t mean anything vis-a-vis libertarians.

  117. Episiarch, does it ever occur to you to try to argue the facts, instead of judging statements on their partisan implications?

    joe, I’m going to clue you in to something. You’re a classless partisan bimbo who is just enough of a clever monkey to shill relentlessly for your god and master. I can’t be the only person around here who is sick to death of you pissing down the collective libertarian back and claiming it’s not raining in regards to Obama.

    I’d say “fuck off” if your pathetic fellations of Obama weren’t so entertaining. Make sure you use tongue, joe, and always remember to rub under the balls.

    So that’s a “No” then. But we all knew that.

  118. Sure, half of those are Epi quoting Aqua Teen

    “Come Meat-man, lets go break the law to fulfill your primitive needs.”

  119. “Obama called Palin a pig. He knows it (even if he didn’t intend it). His audience certainly knew it. I don’t understand how dense Weigel and some of the commenters here must be to not get it.”

    I think the real message is that we’re tired of all this phony outrage when the real issue is that Palin is a far right religious nut who proved herself an incompetent executive in Wasilla and a shifty, political opportunist in Juneau.

  120. Oh, and for your information, my mancrushes are on John Kerry and Theo Epstein, thank you very much.

    He only signed Julio Lugo to fake y’alls out.

  121. “I’ll stop “whining” when you admit that Senator McCain has no honor.”

    Jesus Fluffy, good thing you are not histrionic or anything. Obama said something stupid and it is a partisan advantage and McCain is going to use it. That is what politicians do. He has to make sure he doesn’t overplay his hand.

    Some people are offended by it. I don’t agree with them, but I also don’t think they are being unreasonable either. As I explained above, there are certain terms you don’t use in close context to other terms. Pig and woman would be a good example.

    Perhaps by being offended, they are offending your dainty sensibilities. But, you claiming that McCain has “no honor” over this is completely stupid and over the top.

  122. Abdul,

    You really can’t deny that Palin put John McCain back in the game. No, and I’m not. Once again, his offense wasn’t getting the job done, so he stopped running the ball and threw a Hail Mary. It’s still in the air. Maybe the reciever will come down with it.

  123. Epi, care to explain to me exactly HOW IN THE FUCKING HIGH HOLY HELL joe is “pissing down the collective libertarian back” when he pisses on McCain and/or Palin?

    He can piss on McCain all he wants. It’s the Obama cheerleading that is so utterly relentless.

    Your unmitigated hatred for McCain might blind you to that. I’m not knocking you for it, but you should factor it in.

  124. Does anyone think Palin is going to overplay her hand and drive every guy that’s ever been unfairly accused of making a “sexist” remark into the Democratic camp?

    I think Chuck Todd said yesterday that their latest poll showed a significant movmement of women (under 50) from Obama to McCain due to the Palin pick, but also a significant but smaller movement of men under 50 to Obama

  125. fyodor,

    No, because white women having been switching to Team Red in droves.

    Not really. Not according to the polls I’ve seen. She actually seems to be doing better with men than women.

    Are you seriously saying that John McCain is the only candidate in the last 50 years who didn’t get a convention bounce? Cripes, Walter Mondale got a convention bounce that brought him to a tie in the race. You have to assume that poll movement immediately after a convention is a convention bounce.

  126. “Come Meat-man, lets go break the law to fulfill your primitive needs.”

    Our vertical leap is beyond all measure.

  127. Joe-

    John Kerry got zero convention bounce. He’s the only one I can think of, but it didn’t happen to him.

  128. Using a key to gouge expletives on another’s vehicle is a sign of trust, and friendship.

  129. It’s the Obama cheerleading that is so utterly relentless.

    I defy anyone to find anything in thread in which I talked up Obama.

  130. Joe you are starting to sound like Bahgdad Bob or whoever that guy was.

  131. “I defy anyone to find anything in thread in which I talked up Obama.”

    Who is sock puppeting Joe? That is dirty pool.

  132. Not according to the polls I’ve seen.

    Links? If you’re so dedicated to “science”, about some “evidence”?

  133. In what one perceives as a binary election system, talking down one party is talking up the other.

  134. You’re becoming a parody, joe. Please continue.

  135. To riff on joe’s analogy. If the hail mary is caught, and mccain-palin win the election, will he bow down before the christian supremacists that swung her way and load the SCOTUS in such a way that Roe v Wade is overturned? How would that affect politics in the future?

  136. and load the SCOTUS in such a way that Roe v Wade is overturned

    Overturning RvW would be the biggest gift to feminism and the left since the theory of collective guilt. Feminists go to sleep at night with huge clit-boners at the thought of RvW being overturned.

    I’m not saying the GOP’s not stupid enough to do it, but it would be suicide for nearly a generation and the rational ones know it.

  137. TAO,

    http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1069a1ThePalinPick.pdf

    Look at page 2/7.

    Personally, I think opinions about Palin are still all up in the air.

  138. claims that Obama gave Clinton the finger once… based on a video in which he scratches his face with his middle finger partially extended.

    I think we can all agree that any presidential candidate who has NOT given Clinton the face-scratch-salute is unfit for office.

  139. John | September 10, 2008, 11:10am | #

    Joe you are starting to sound like Bahgdad Bob or whoever that guy was.
    John | September 10, 2008, 11:11am | #

    “I defy anyone to find anything in thread in which I talked up Obama.”

    Who is sock puppeting Joe? That is dirty pool.

    Episiarch | September 10, 2008, 11:12am | #

    You’re becoming a parody, joe. Please continue.

    I’m not sure which is more impressive; the surgical logic with which my reasoning was eviscerated, or the damning quotes they were able to pull from me demonstrating their points.

  140. You being seemingly oblivious to your own hacktasticness is not my problem, joe.

  141. Mwahahahahaha!

    I HAVE MY REVENGE!!

  142. You being seemingly oblivious to your own hacktasticness is not my problem, joe.

    What I love about this faux-objectivity is that it simply doesn’t matter what’s true.

    If saying the world is round would favor the Democrats, Episiarch would accuse me of partisanship for saying the world is round.

    Did you even notice that one of your fellow non-partisan libertarians said you don’t have have leg to stand on here?

  143. “You know what they say the difference is between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick.” — Sarah Palin

    “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.” — Barack Obama

    Given that we’ve all been assured Obama is an oratorical genius, how can we view this as accidental? Methinks he got a bit too cute.

  144. tawdry backseat sex.

    Now you’ve done it.

  145. This whole thing is the biggest fairytale I’ve ever seen.

  146. You can put lipstick on Hymietown, but it’s still full of Jews.

  147. I have aides! Everyone should get aides! And put lipstick on them!

  148. At least I don’t plaster on the manufacture outrage like a trollop, cunts.

  149. I love the McCain campaign…somebody used the word ‘pig’…they must mean Sarah Palin…my choice would be fucking cunt, but that is not pc.

  150. So Sarah Palin comparing herself to a vicious female dog (aka, a bitch) is kosher?

  151. You can put lipstick on Jesse Jackson, but I still won’t let him near my cock.

  152. You can put lipstick on a white woman, but she’s still part of a conspiracy to give black people AIDS!

  153. Given that we’ve all been assured Obama is an oratorical genius, how can we view this as accidental?

    Because he was talking about John McCain in the quote?

    Which raises the question – he also used the analogy of an OLD fish. Why are we seeing a much greater stretch, to try to find a connection to Palin’s gender when she wasn’t even mentioned, rather than to McCain, who was mentioned, and whose sensitive demographic attribute was much more directly referenced?

    My theory: becasue this is purely manufactured outrage from a campaign that’s adopted a strategy of playing the gender card.

  154. piggy in lipstick

    poor downcast hate speech victim

    sprout wings fly away

  155. You can put lipstick on a bomb and kill people with it, but it still won’t prevent me from launching Barack Obama’s Senate bid from my home!

  156. I bring up Roe simply because down here, in the BIG baptist church, Palin is on a “mission from God.” (apologies to jake and ellwood)
    They have a basket they can put all their eggs into. Palin is seen as the ultimate pro-life christian; not only talking the talk, but raising that poor, unfortunate child and accepting, and even welcoming, the results of teaching abstinence only to her daughter.
    If they can pull off the death of Roe v Wade, the moral majority will once again rise up, and demand other theocratic corrections to their once great nation. A nation they all believe was founded by God and has strayed far from the Truth. They will see it as a sure sign from God that the U.S. was destined by God hisself to be a christian theocracy.

    or maybe i’m just delusional

  157. “You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It’s still gonna stink.”

    So who’s the fish in the analogy?

    Did Obama deftly call McCain a stinky old fish…or is this an even more sexist comment?

  158. I would have dismissed this as simply a matter of Obama using a common phrase whose cultural relevance shifted due to Palin’s comment. However, given the other half of the statement, it may have been purposeful given McCain does look like an old fish.

  159. “Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they put lipstick on them, they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild! Vote Obama!”

  160. You can put lipstick on a Hussein, but he still can’t eat me.

  161. Gee, I wonder if that’s SIV.

  162. I think he was being even more sexist by saying she stinks of rotten fish. That’s what we said about girls in 8th grade.

  163. My theory: becasue this is purely manufactured outrage from a campaign that’s adopted a strategy of playing the gender card.

    Theory 2: because the McCain campaign has adopted a strategy of minimizing the attention paid to McCain, and wants to turn every subject back to Palin.

  164. I agree that this is yet another asinine dispute, and the McCain camp should laugh it off and address issues of substance. But the context of Obama’s remark is specific, the reference double, and reasonable interpreation allows for inference that he was referring to Palin’s well-known reference to pit bulls and hockey moms, and to McCain’s age.

    Isolating any comment from its context and pretending it means what it has meant in other, unrelated instances, is just weak grasp of language use.

  165. John McCain says he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

    I think it’s terribly sexist to compare a man to a fish.

  166. You can put lipstick on an old fish, but it still doesn’t taste like pussy.

  167. Yes, taking the “pig” comment out of its context is terrible use of language.

    Which is why it’s so important to read the whole quote.

  168. I think the real message is that we’re tired of all this phony outrage when the real issue is…

    Obama can call Palin a pig if wants. You may agree with him. I think the issue here is if it’s OK for him to do so without expecting a reaction.

    If we’re ready to have candidates just come out and started calling each other “pig” “chimp” “cracker” whatever, then let’s agree that this is fine. If not, then let’s agree that the outrage of someone skating over the line–whether they meant to or not–isn’t manufactured, and deserves to be called.

  169. John McCain says b>he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

  170. Man, not only is he calling her a pig and a fish, but he keeps refering to Mrs. Palin as “he.”

    That’s just not very nice.

  171. You can put lipstick on a pig, but two legs is still bad better.

  172. Obama’s comment was obviously deliberate(or stupid or Freudian), but don’t cry sexism.

  173. I can put on lipstick, but I’m still a sexist pig.

  174. brotherben –

    I agree with SugarFree on this one: Roe v. Wade is a huge benefit to Republicans. Without it, states would be left to decide the extent to which abortion should be legal, and no politician in his or her right mind would want to go against roughly 65% of the population who support at least limited legal access to abortion. With Roe v. Wade, Republicans have something they can gather public support on without having to actually do anything.

  175. You can put lipstick on Paris Hilton, but it’s just going to end up on some guy’s cock.

  176. I think Obama is right on the mark. I mean what else can the GOP do but put lipstick on a pig? I think McCain’s VP is a desperate attempt to repackage the Republican “Brand” in a new maverick mythology, which by all stretches of the imagination is entirely chimerical. I think it will be difficult for Republicans to make any substantial arguments against affirmative action after this pick. Affirmative action not for individual uplift but as desperate political maneuvering is a cynical betrayal of principals to gain power.

    One question – and please answer honestly:

    Were Palin a man, would McCain have picked her? Point made.

    …and now John McCain only wants to talk about Palin.

    Why? Skepticism isn’t sexism…..

    Do you love how the McCain campaign is exploiting women by his VP pick?

    It seems to be working and it is a sign of how gullible people are.

    Before Palin, McCain was no go for women. So the McCain campaign picks a woman with just about the same opinions and record as McCain, and women start falling in line? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

    What does that say about American women?

  177. No one ever went broke–or was unelected–by underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

  178. If Queeg really wanted to mind-fuck the Demos, he should have picked J C Watts as his running mate.

  179. “If not, then let’s agree that the outrage of someone skating over the line–whether they meant to or not–isn’t manufactured, and deserves to be called.”

    Which “line” are you talking about? The sexism line, or the not-stooping-to-name-calling line? But excuse me if I find it a little difficult to believe that the GOP, the party that has decried political correctness as long as the concept has been around, is now standing up for it. The truth is that the GOP doesn’t believe in PC, but they are using it as an angle of attack because the Democrats supposedly started PC. Guess what? I’m neither, and its clear to see that the GOP is full of absolute shit on this. Full of it. Brown. Glistening. Just sitting there.

    I’m tired of the GOP being full of shit. When can we expect honor back in the party?

  180. ApostasyUSA, sweetie, you are being too hysterical. When I say we need to change the tone of politics, that is the sort of partisan rancor I am talking about. I demand more from you, ApostasyUSA. Get past your comfort zones, and light a fire.

  181. John McCain says he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

    Refering to Governor Palin as “John McCain” is way, way over the line. Shame on you, Senator Obama!

  182. A chicken in every pot, and lipstick on every pig!

  183. No one ever went broke–or was unelected–by underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

    “We are the change we’ve been waiting for!”

  184. I guess we need to recycle the quote of the day from yesterday…

    And make it the quote of the next two months….

    “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers,” – Thomas Pynchon.

  185. joe,

    That is a nice attempt…but this is how I analyze the analogy…

    McCain is the pig, Palin is the lipstick.

  186. McCain’s Selection of Palin is Lipstick on a Pig

    http://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/elizabethberry/Cgsq

  187. More accurately,

    The Republican Ticket is the Pig, McCain is it’s face, and Palin is the lipstick put on the pig’s face to make it look prettier.

  188. When can we expect honor back in the party?

    Ha ha. You’re a funny guy, Lamar.

    Now, as to your serious question, the “line” I was referring to was name-calling. There is nothing terribly PC about being offended at someone calling your wife or daughter (or female running mate) a pig. Accuse McCain of phony chivalry (or phony anything else you may wish; I don’t really care), but why forgive Obama trying to get away with a comment like this. Because he didn’t mean it? Everybody who heard it either laughed or gasped. It was a slur. So, are slurs OK or are they not?

  189. John Kerry is trying every which way to cover up his record of weakness on national defense. But he can’t do it. It won’t work. As we like to say in Wyoming, you can put all the lipstick you want on that pig, but at the end of the day, it’s still a pig.

    Cheney called Kerry a girl?!?!

    That is awesome.

  190. You know I really think Obama has a chance against Bush…..

  191. not to pick nits or stuff, but in Wyoming, wouldn’t the lipstick go on a sheep?

  192. Palin is the Grob’s Attack of politics.

    It only works once per opponent, and sometimes even that is not enough.

  193. Let’s pretend that Obama was referencing Palin with the lipstick comment.

    The insult/sexism claim is not that Palin is being called a pig…it is that she is just a pretty face. It is okay for McCain to say that Obama is just a pretty face (an empty suit, whatever), but the game changes when a man calls a woman “nothing but a pretty face.” He would be better going with an “all flash but no substance” tact, imho.

  194. Race Man: How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton.
    http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

  195. You can put lipstick on MY cock, as long as I get to choose the transfer mechanism.

  196. Josh:

    Cheney called Kerry a girl?!?!

    No, he said he wind-surfed like one.

  197. I just wish they would quit playing cute and get it over with.

    DNC: “McCain is a rictus-faced baby killer, and has old, wrinkled balls. Palin is a mealy-mouthed cunt whose brain size approximates her clitoris.

    RNC: Obama is an uppity house nigger who thinks he can run the plantation better than massa. Biden is a bald-headed faggot.

    There, now can we get back to…you know…policy?

  198. I got an interesting email from a friend yesterday.

    One of her friends lives in Wasilla and is active in the town’s politics. She knows Palin well.

    She asked that the letter not be posted on websites, so I will honor that wish, but I will excerpt a bit (sans the identifying information that worried her)…

    CLAIM VS FACT
    > * ‘Hockey mom’: true for a few years
    > * ‘PTA mom’: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since
    > * ‘NRA supporter’: absolutely true
    > * social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconstitutional).
    > * pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.
    > * ‘Pro-life’: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation
    > * ‘Experienced’: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.
    > * political maverick: not at all
    > * gutsy: absolutely!
    > * open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.
    > * has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
    > * ‘a Greenie’: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
    > * fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
    > * pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.
    > * pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents
    > * pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla’s history.
    > * pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

  199. Wow, sorry, must-remember-to-take-zoloft!

  200. “Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots.”

    In other words, oversaw the natural growth of a small town into a regular burb.

  201. h-dawg,

    I think both you and the letter writer give her too much credit here.

    Of course, it seems she promoted pro-business policies (a good thing), but (didn’t quite) fund them using regressive taxes that fell mostly on the town’s poor and middle class.

  202. The constant talk from the left that Palin should have aborted her baby pisses me off like nothing else in this campaign. My brother had Down’s Syndrome, and this is a sore spot for me. For an ideology that celebrates the non-normal, why does liberalism insist that non-normal fetuses be terminated?

    Down’s Syndrome is not a disease. People don’t “suffer” from it. It doesn’t require hospitalization or extraordinary care. Many are productive members of society. They may not get admitted to Havard or Yale, but most can make it through high school and hold productive jobs.

    Liberals who say that Palin should have aborted Trig are the ultimate bigots.

  203. Obama’s supporters busted their guts at the tired, old pig and fish metaphors before he even finished his delivery, just like they did when he scratched his cheek and flipped off HRC. It was red meat for the crowd, and they certainly took it as a double-entendre. Was Barack the only one there who was too stupid to recognize the sexist and ageist innuendo? Really?

    Not that I care one whit about all the meaningless campaign poo the monkeys fling, mind you, but COME ON! /G.O.B. Don’t be deliberately obtuse.

    I suppose it serves its purpose, because as long as the focus on this petty shit, no one is thinking about the Fannie and Freddie boondoggle, which makes Enron look like child’s play.

  204. Brandybuck,

    Liberals who say that Palin should have aborted Trig are the ultimate bigots.

    WTF?

    I have never heard anyone say that Palin should have aborted her youngest child.

    Have you? Really?

    why does liberalism insist that non-normal fetuses be terminated?

    There is a difference between being pro-choice and insisting on abortion. This is not even a strawman, it is disingenuous.

    Down’s Syndrome is not a disease. People don’t “suffer” from it. It doesn’t require hospitalization or extraordinary care. Many are productive members of society. They may not get admitted to Havard or Yale, but most can make it through high school and hold productive jobs.

    It is important to be accurate when discussing this issue. Your statement is accurate if you qualify it with “it doesn’t necessarily require…” but there are many health and educational effects associated with Trisomy 21 that increase the chances that the individual will require “extraordinary care” of some type.

    A good place to start for those who don’t know much about Trisomy 21.
    http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/Down_Syndrome.cfm

  205. John McCain says he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

    NM, the “pig” and “fish” are Republican policies of the last eight years, by my reading. The “lipstick” and “paper” are the McCain campaign’s efforts to sell the continuation of these policies as change.

  206. joe,

    I am fine with that reading…however the “efforts to sell” include the lipstick that is Palin.

    It works on both levels at once, as any good analogy will. Obama was using it prior to Palin, it just gained additional meanings when she was added to the context. Obama, I am pretty sure, was intentionally including Palin as one of the efforts McCain was using to make the pig look prettier. Her lipstick comment at the RNC amplified the power of the analogy. I am pretty sure Obama knew that it would.

    It isn’t, btw, sexist to refer to Palin as a way to pretty up the ticket, but it is possible for people to take offense based on the history men have of dismissing women with comments on their looks.

  207. its a sad state when a religious whack job saves your campaign.

    I keep seeing people call Palin a fundie or a religious whack job or whatever, but I don’t see it.

    She’s against putting creationism on the curriculum.

    She’s for teaching about condoms in sex ed classes.

    She never asked for a single book to be banned.

    She never pushed for any new restrictions on abortion, that I know of.

    Where’s the fundie whack job in all that?

    Palin is going to help Republican turnout by firing up the Republicans. The thing is, she’s firing up Democrats, too. In 2008, such a war of attrition benefits the Democrats.

    Maybe, but I think it will be a net benefit to the Repubs, given their relative dispirited base before her nomination. No one will ever know for sure.

    And I wouldn’t be so sure the Dems are winning the popularity contest these days, the way they were six months ago. Progress in Iraq and the gas crunch have hurt the Dem brand. Congressional polling is starting to swing back towards the Repubs.

  208. RC Dean,

    She’s against putting creationism on the curriculum.

    Not true. She has publicly supported the idea that “both sides” should be presented in science classes. You can pick nits and point out that she didn’t try to inject this idea into the official state mandates if you want, but she has come out in support of the idea of putting religious explanations on par with science in a science class.

    She’s for teaching about condoms in sex ed classes.

    Depends on what audience she is talking to, but I believe it would be more accurate to say that she would not actively oppose this idea.

    She never asked for a single book to be banned.

    The accounts I have read indicate that what she did was test the waters to see if she could get away with banning books in her community library. When she got slapped back on the idea by the community, she dropped it. It is similar to her initial support from the bridge to no-where that she dropped once public opinion turned against her. She is a savvy enough politician to avoid taking a stance until she knows where the public stands.

    She never pushed for any new restrictions on abortion, that I know of.

    This is true (see excerpt in my post above).

  209. “It was a slur. So, are slurs OK or are they not?”

    If the insult is not a sexist insult, then it is inappropriate to feign outrage over a sexist insult.

    When John Kerry said that stupid people “get stuck in Iraq” the GOPers ran with it. We all knew that he was referring to Bush getting the country stuck in Iraq, but to a person who didn’t know anything about the story, the idea that uneducated people are nothing more than army meatheads was a plausible explanation based solely on the language.

    But this claim that Obama called Palin a pig is not a reasonable interpretation, not even for GOPers who disingenuously spread interpretations they know are not true.

    Jim Antle has a point. The people who make these attacks are GOPer, latte-sipping, wine sniffer pricks that nobody likes. Or more likely, they are Look At My Striped Shirt assholes.

  210. however the “efforts to sell” include the lipstick that is Palin.

    Yeah, that sounds about right.

    RC,

    Maybe, but I think it will be a net benefit to the Repubs, given their relative dispirited base before her nomination.

    Good point. I saw some polling on this, and it showed considerably more Republicans saying they were excited about the ticket than last time this question was asked. However – and this surprised me – the Democrats were still considerably more excited about their ticket than the Republicans were about theirs – and this is based on polling done in the “convention bump” period. One figure that sticks in my head is 28% of McCain supporters say he’s “the lesser of two evils,” while only 12% of Obama supporters say that. I don’t doubt that the Republican excitement about Palin is real, but I interpret this result to mean that the excitement for Palin isn’t rubbing off on McCain. Maybe that’s why I haven’t seen him say anything on the teevee since the convention.

  211. Great site, Lamar.

  212. We’ve got 56 days until the election.

    Early voting starts September 30th in Ohio: 20 days.

  213. “I keep seeing people call Palin a fundie or a religious whack job or whatever, but I don’t see it.

    She’s against putting creationism on the curriculum.

    She’s for teaching about condoms in sex ed classes.

    She never asked for a single book to be banned.

    She never pushed for any new restrictions on abortion, that I know of.

    Where’s the fundie whack job in all that?

    (1) She supports teaching intelligent design, (though is not dumb enough to try to pass a law sure to be held unconstitutional). She thinks that “both sides” should be taught in the classroom. Given the current status (i.e., only science is taught), that means that she thinks the “other side” (i.e., religion) should be taught in the classroom. Further, claiming that there is a debate between science and religion is typical whack job rhetoric. The only time there is a conflict between the two is when you believe in the Bible as the literal truth, all 5,000 some odd years of the Earth’s history with Jesus riding a dinosaur. I’m exaggerating, but how far whacked out does one have to be to be considered a whacko in your book? Do they have to believe that George Washington was Jesus Christ?

    (2) Palin believes in teaching about condoms in class alongside her abstinence only policy. Huh? Given where the condoms go, her opposition to “explicit” sex education pretty much renders her noncommittal support for condoms illusory.

    (3) the book banning incident has more to do with loyalty to the king oaths than banning books.

    (4) Q: Your stand on abortion?

    Palin: I’m pro-life. I’ll do all I can to see every baby is created with a future and potential. The legislature should do all it can to protect human life. Source: Q&A with Newsmax.com’s Mike Coppock Aug 29, 2008.

    You have to realize that my standards for religious whack jobs are different than yours. For example, I think that anybody who believes the Earth is 5,000 years old is crazy. When they say that such a bizarre concept could be taught in schools, I call them a whack job.

  214. News today about climbing deficit. Good thing we’re more interested real issues like pigs and lipstick and such! Obviously eight years of Dubya have really dumbed-down republicans.

  215. News today about climbing deficit. Good thing we’re more interested real issues like pigs and lipstick and such! Obviously eight years of Dubya have really dumbed-down republicans.”

    If you are a Republican, the climbing deficit makes you pray for lipstick pig debates everyday. You applaud the selection of Palin as just the distraction needed.

  216. Amen.

    P.S. I’m noticing more and more how McCain-Palin bear more than a passing resemblance to Doctors Evil and Melfi, respectively.

    I’m just saying.

  217. But, you claiming that McCain has “no honor” over this is completely stupid and over the top.

    Whoa whoa whoa whoa – Wait one fucking second.

    You’re saying that I should just expect McCain to dissemble [that is, to lie] and feign outrage at his own deliberate misinterpretation [again, in other words, a lie] of what Obama said, because McCain is a politician and that’s what politicians do.

    News flash: one requirement of having honor is that you tell the truth. Period. End of sentence. Full stop.

    McCain has demonstrated that he has no honor in lots of other ways, too, but that’s besides the point.

    A man with honor would adhere absolutely to the truth, even when making shit up was to his advantage. And that’s that. If you make shit up in order to try to obtain some advantage for yourself, you can not be said to be a man of honor. And that’s that.

    Basically you’re saying that you have a definition of honor or a standard of honor that doesn’t include telling the truth, and I guess I shouldn’t be surprised about that, since you’re a Republican and all.

    When you say that McCain has “honor”, you apparently mean “McCain was a POW, and if McCain led troops into an ambush in the Middle East he would refuse to lead them out lest someone think less of John McCain as a result” and that really isn’t the definition of honor, John.

  218. John, this is a late comment. But I’ve never heard someone refer to a woman as a pig. I’ve heard male chauvinist pig. I’ve heard “he’s a pig” or someone untidy called a “pig”. Maybe it’s just a Michigan thing, but we insult women with other animals here.

    As to the argument that the audience wouldn’t have laughed/clapped if they didn’t think he was referring to Palin. Really? My observation of these events is talk,talk,talk, cheer, talk, talk, cheer, talk, talk, route joke, cheer, laugh…It hardly matters what is said.

    Michele in Michigan

  219. Michele,

    Check out a Dice Clay albumn from your local 80’s culture museum. there’s plenty of references to women as pigs.

  220. This is why I’d be embarrassed to be associated with either party- fighting over whether “putting lipstick on a pig” was an intentional hit on Palin by Obama. Don’t we have more important things to worry about rather than that- oh, like the real issues perhaps???

  221. It wasn’t an attack, it was tone-deafness. I don’t think Obama intended it as a Palin reference, but the crowd sure heard it as one– not surprising, since “lipstick” was one of the first words the public heard out of Palin’s mouth.

    If McCain had said, “The difference between Sen. Obama and is is the difference between black and white,” would you consider the inevitable charges of racism to be “whining”?

  222. SENATOR OBAMA’S PERSONAL ATTACK ON GOVERNOR PALIN, IS DISTURBING EVIDENCE OF EXCESSIVE INFLUENCE BY GURU MAGGOTS!!!!!

    IT OBVIOUSLY IS AN APPROXIMATE TRANSLATION OF “CUIR S?ODA AR MHUC, AGUS IS MUC I GC?NA? ?”!!!!!!!!

    SENATOR OBAMA, YOU ARE LEARNING HATE FROM IRA/SINN FEIN!!!!!!

    ONCE THIS GOES VIRAL, VICTORY FOR THE MCCAIN/PALIN TICKET IS ASSURED!!!!!

  223. This is a significant flub by Barack. It is just silly to try to deny it. As you watch the video, the crowd erupts when Barack lays out the pig-lipstick analogy. Regardless of what Barack intended, everyone in that room made the reference to Palin, and that’s why they roared into a standing ovation. And that is the impression the casual viewer will get in countless replays of that moment. He should have thrown the pig-lipstick analogy out of the stump speech the moment Palin’s lipstick ad-lib made her a celebrity.

  224. Why should he have to apologize if McCain doesn’t even have to acknowledge his equally blatant usage of the phrase in regards to a woman?

  225. Ralph:

    Do you have many friends? What’re you guys gonna do win the culture war? Just curious…

  226. Sorry, that should read: “What’re you guys gonna do when you win the culture war?”

  227. How can anyone deny that Sarah is truly a prime porker? Just look at those budget earmarks she landed. Sorry if the whiners think this is saying something naughty about her ears. Another almost sexist remark from the political world: if she can’t stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen.

  228. BTW, since I went after John a bit, I would be remiss if I didn’t go after joe a little too.

    I really have to point out that this incident, and this thread, are fate’s revenge on joe for his assertions during the New Yorker cover debate.

    If the perception of the audience gets to control the meaning of a statement, then the GOP wankers around here can FORCE Obama’s statement to have a sexist meaning and a meaning that insults Palin, just by being the kind of dicks they’re being. If what joe argued on that occasion is true, it doesn’t really matter what the facts about Obama’s statement are, because the meaning of his statement isn’t in his control, but in the control of people who are going to force their brains to imagine stupid shit. Sorry, joe.

  229. Regardless of what Barack intended, everyone in that room made the reference to Palin, and that’s why they roared into a standing ovation

    Or they applauded because they thought that McCain is completely full of shit when McCain talks about change.

    One more time for the slow learners:

    John McCain says he’s about change, too, and so I guess his whole angle is, ‘Watch out George Bush.’ Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That’s not change. That’s just calling something the same thing, something different. But you know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. You know, you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years.”

  230. You conservative McCain and Palin fans are full of it. Why is it okay for Mccain and Palin to hurl insults about/at Senator Obama? You don’t care about that – it’s okay – but then you don’t want anyone to say negative things about them, especially Sarah Palin. The “governor of Alaska” has been saying mean spirited things since accepting the nod — and that’s been okay w/you all. But when/as the tables are turned – when a comment is directed to her – you want to fall back on calling it sexist. That’s a ploy so no one will call her on the inconsistencies in her message. If it’s okay for her to (not deal with the issues of the people) hurl mud at Senator Obama- than don’t complain when it comes back to her/you.

  231. Your Reality Check Just Bounced | September 10, 2008, 6:21pm | #

    Again,

    The proper nouns and pronouns are irrelevant to that charge that is being made. Palin plays the role of lipstick in the analogy…she is the lipstick on the pig. If you think it is sexist to call her “lipstick”, then you can claim Obama was being sexist.

    Or they applauded because they thought that McCain is completely full of shit when McCain talks about change.

    Reality is that both implications were probably made by most in the crowd. Calling Palin nothing but lipstick on the Bush/McCain policy pig is a turn of phrase worth a reaction from Obama supporters.

  232. NEU MEJICAN, I’M TYPING LIKE A REPUBLICAN. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY IT’S OKAY FOR MCCAIN TO SAY THE SAME EXACT PHRASE IN REFERENCE TO HILLARY CLINTON?

  233. Getting past this foolishness, can we focus for a second on Obama’s point? i.e. that the Republicans are putting “lipstick on a pig” by trying to co-opt his policy of “change”?

    Obama is for preserving Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare as they lurch towards financial insolvency. The change Bush tried to make failed. McCain, to his credit, still supports reforming these and moving them back towards solvency.

    Obama is for preserving the public school system basically as-is (or at least as the teachers unions want them to be.) Increasing school choice has widely failed due to the teachers unions. McCain is for increasing school choice.

    Change is a very convenient way for Obama to cover up the fact that he’s conservative when it comes to preserving the good old programs of the good old Leftist orthodoxy. And the only change he supports seems to be adding more.

    As a libertarian I have, over the past few months, become more concerned with the permanent damage that could result from an Obama presidency with a Democratic congress than from a McCain presidency with a Democratic congress. Wars can be ended, but entitlements and spending, when enacted, tend not to go away.

  234. Correction: Bush actually succeeded on Medicare Part B. But Obama supports that where McCain doesn’t.

  235. The left forged the weapon of identity politics and just left it lying around. Stop whining when the right picks it up and uses it against you. If the left hadn’t spent 30 years screaming “RASCIST” and “SEXIST” and “LOOKIST” and “SIZIST” at everyone they disagreed with in the slightest, the right wouldn’t be able to do it right back at you.

    And if the Right hadn’t spent the last 30 years complaining about this, maybe their copying wouldn’t be so pathetic.

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