What's the Difference Between a Pit Bull and a Hockey Rink?

|

Pit bulls don't arrive 10 years late and for more than a million dollars that you budgeted. Michael Phillips has the whole gruesome story of how plucky small town Mayor Sarah Palin botched up her biggest development project.

Hockey is much loved in Wasilla, and Ms. Palin, whose son was a star player, wanted to build an indoor rink, with a track, basketball courts and soccer field. In the late 1990s, the city sought a 145-acre parcel owned by the Nature Conservancy, which wanted to sell the land to buy more environmentally sensitive property elsewhere. City officials negotiated a price of $126,000. Months passed without the city's securing a signed purchase agreement, according to the city's attorney, Tom Klinkner of Birch, Horton, Bittner & Cherot.

At the same time, Gary Lundgren, a Fairbanks real-estate investor, was in talks with the Nature Conservancy to buy a larger adjacent property. As discussions between the environmental group and the city dragged on, Mr. Lundgren said, he purchased the entire site for about $1 million.

Ms. Palin marched ahead, making the public case for a sales-tax increase and $14.7 million bond issue to pay for the sports center, which was to feature a running track, basketball courts and a hockey rink. At the time, the city's annual budget was about $20 million. In a March 2002 referendum, residents approved the mayor's plan by a 20-vote margin, 306 to 286. The city cleared roads, installed utilities and made preparations to build.

After Ms. Palin left office, the city decided to take 80 acres of Mr. Lundgren's property through eminent domain. An Alaska court confirmed the city's right to do so and ordered that an arbitrator determine the appropriate price.

Last year, the arbitrator ordered the city to pay $836,378 for the 80-acre parcel, far more than the $126,000 Wasilla originally thought it would pay for a piece of land 65 acres larger. The arbitrator also determined that the city owed Mr. Lundgren $336,000 in interest. Wasilla's legal bill since the eminent domain action has come to roughly $250,000 so far, according to Mr. Klinkner, the city attorney.

I've never been too impressed by Obama's community organizer days (certainly less impressed than these dudes), but did he ever botch an assignment like this? Palin was still scrambling to fix her screw-up six years ago, and suddenly her mayoralty is Caesar's conquest of Gaul.

Advertisement

NEXT: Sexy Sarah, What Have You Done?

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. “What’s the Difference Between a Pitbull and a Hockey Rink?”

    Ask Kieth Olbermann and Chris Matthews; they have pleanty of time to answer that now. Of course, it’ll have to be off-camera.

  2. suddenly her mayoralty is Caesar’s conquest of Gaul

    Wasilla est omnis divisa in partes tres…

  3. Yeah, and she’s going to be the next vice president, maybe president someday. Amazing.

  4. Just because we’re talking about a hockey rink doesn’t change the fact that Putin’s Russia is only a few miles from Alaska and Reason wants to just cut and run from America’s hockey rink commitments.

  5. Finally, a real issue with some actual facts.

    Doesn’t look good. Doesn’t look good at all. WTF does Wasilla need with a multimillion dollar sports complex?

  6. Labra lege, Wasilla delenda est!

  7. Finally, a real issue with some actual facts.

    If only it is covered that way. My problem with Palin all along has been her record, which doesn’t match the public image built up by beltway conservatives who didn’t check. I could give a damn about her family. So: I see why the Palin handlers pretend this is all media hate and hysteria directed at her family.

  8. I’ve never been too impressed by Obama’s community organizer days (certainly less impressed than these dudes), but did he ever botch an assignment like this?

    No, but then again, community organizers aren’t given assignments with real world effect.

  9. WTF does Wasilla need with a multimillion dollar sports complex?

    Panem et circensus?

    No, but seriously, this is the sort of shit that makes me scratch my head that all these libertarian folks are leaping to defend Palin. Sure, you can contort your mind into ignoring and/or explaining away the library thing, and the choice thing, and the lying about earmarks thing, heck even the hating ‘teh gays’ thing, but how the hell do you get around the fact that not only is she keen to use the state to build absolutely useless things in the middle of nowhere, but also that she totally cocked up the execution of the thing?

  10. Abdul,

    it cracks me up that

    1. Conservatives (and Libertarians!) say that all the worlds ills that are currently being addressed by government programs could instead be addressed by private and local community groups

    and

    2. They can’t get enough of making fun of and/or denigrating actual said groups and their members

    WTF?

  11. Mr Weigel,
    Is it okay to give a critical damn about her family if her and the party use them as such a cornerstone of her qualifications?

  12. Labra lege, Wasilla delenda est

    Cato? Please. The Punic Wars are not relevant here. You would have done better with “alea iacta est”.

  13. “WTF does Wasilla need with a multimillion dollar sports complex?”

    Go ask the people who live there. They voted for it. It is not like she unilaterally raised taxes to fund it like they do in Congress. Obviously the people who lived there liked the idea. Why they voted for it probably has something to do with the fact that a lot of them like to play hockey and there is not much else to do up there in the winter.

    Further, it is not clear from the article who screwed up the emminent domain. The city decided to take the property via emminent domain after she left office. What appears to have occured is that they low balled him on the price and had to fight it out in court only to lose because their initial price was nowhere near market value. Palin wasn’t in office when that happened. How is that her fault? Maybe she underestimated the market value when she initially proposed the idea. Maybe the market changed in the meantime. Maybe the court is full of shit and they did make a good offer and he is making a killing. You can’t tell from the quote.

  14. Lmnop,

    The whole point is that “community organizer” sounds like a BS job. The people who are actually addressing the ills of the world don’t call themselves “community organizers.” They define themselves by jobs with real responsiblities and duties.

    I’d go so far as to say that if one’s job involves raising “awareness” or “consciousness,” has anything to do with a “coalition,” or if someone is a self-described “activist” they’d do the world a favor by getting a haircut and a real job.

  15. Is it okay to give a critical damn about her family if her and the party use them as such a cornerstone of her qualifications?

    You can try, but politicians are fairly skilled in reflecting those attacks. They’re unfair! Why are you a sexist? And so on. Since they really are only relevant during a campaign they have a point. A candidate’s record in office is relevant for his/her next office, though.

  16. Better check the books on those PTA rummage and bake sales too.

  17. Actually, if you read Obama’s biography you will find he thought it was a BS job. That is why he went to law school and into politics. He came to the conclusion that “community organizing” didn’t accomplish anything.

  18. “I see why the Palin handlers pretend this is all media hate and hysteria directed at her family.”

    Yeah Dave the media went bizerk and started eating the furniture because they really were upset over Palin’s record in Alaska. Even you don’t believe that. Further, whatever her record in Alaska, could it possibly be any worse than Biden’s in the Senate? You guys never seem to be too interested in posting on that and last I looked he was running for VP to.

  19. You left out the best part of that WSJ article: The McCain-Palin campaign referred questions about the sports complex to Mr. Leonard, the former city finance chief. He blamed the Nature Conservancy [the seller] for dealing with two different potential buyers at one time. “That’s what caused the confusion,” he said.

    Wow! That’s some executive who gets confused by the idea that a seller might negotiate with more than one potential buyer. Whatever happened to title insurance?

  20. Now that Palin is the superstar darling of small government conservative Republicans everywhere, she will use her exerience-based knowledge of the process to clean up the cesspool of porkbarrel spending and politically motivated local make-work projects.

    Did I win?

  21. Go ask the people who live there. They voted for it. It is not like she unilaterally raised taxes to fund it like they do in Congress. Obviously the people who lived there liked the idea.

    John, knowing how these things happen on the local level, I’m not sure that you can safely say that the majority of Wasilla residents were pro-sports complex.

  22. could it possibly be any worse than Biden’s in the Senate?

    You have a point there John. BOTH vp candidates demonstratively suck ass.

  23. Go ask the people who live there. They voted for it. It is not like she unilaterally raised taxes to fund it like they do in Congress. Obviously the people who lived there liked the idea. Why they voted for it probably has something to do with the fact that a lot of them like to play hockey and there is not much else to do up there in the winter.

    First, explain to me how the 535 people in Congress, representing two different major parties, do something unilaterally. And then explain to me why the 48% of the voters who opposed the measure have to pay the higher taxes as well. Or the people who didn’t get a chance to vote on the measure but will pay the higher taxes for the next god-knows-how-many years.

    If Palin had worked with the 300 people who favored the thing to put their resources together and find some way to build the rink without government money, she’d have done an amazing thing. She’d have been a community organizer!

  24. The town thought they had a deal with the Nature Conservancy. Apparently they didn’t. If this is anyone’s fault, it is the City Attorney for not drafting an enforcable sales agreement. The Nature Conservancy did something to cause the city to think they had a deal and the city fucked up and trusted them and the Nature Conservancy sold it out from under them. This is why you have lawyers. They are supposed to make sure that really have a deal when you think you do. Palin is not a lawyer. That is why you have a city attorney. But since Reason is completely in that tank for Obama, it was clearly all her fault.

  25. Mountains out of molehills?

    Basically, we have a small-town mayor who proposed a modest sales tax increase, that was approved by the voters to fund a facility that undoubtedly serves a public purpose, and which was not given to a private interest. There was a subsequent dispute over whether any condemnation was legal and whether the owner received sufficient compensation. Those issues were litigated and the city was required to pay more than it proposed initially. So far as I’m aware, this is par for the course.

    Seriously, there’s a lot to criticize with Palin, this just isn’t one of them.

  26. You guys never seem to be too interested in posting on [Biden’s record] and last I looked he was running for VP to.

    Whoa, there. No criticisms of Joe Biden’s senate record? That’s just not an accurate statement. They’ve criticized him for his record on the drug war, Amtrak, hawkishness, the Patriot Act, gun control and on and on. They’ve gone after him as a windbag, and hit his fake blue collar schtick.

    I’m not sure what you were thinking when you said that.

  27. I posted something similar in the other Palin thread, but I’ll repeat the sentiment here:

    In what world do Palin’s defenders live, where a position as mayor of a small town and then a short term as governor of the least populous and most unique state in the nation qualify as relevant executive experience?

    It’s not like she has demonstrated any intellectual capability that would mitigate this lack of relevant experience – what makes you think she would be able to learn quickly enough on the job? Do the fundamentalists think that Jesus will help her along since she’s one of them?

    I think Palin has to be a dealbreaker for anyone who is legitimately independent and was heretofore undecided.

  28. But since Reason is completely in that tank for Obama

    DRINK!!!

  29. “And then explain to me why the 48% of the voters who opposed the measure have to pay the higher taxes as well.”

    So taxes should only be raised if everyone in the entire town agrees to it? You guys are reaching for straws here. They had a referendum and the tax won. We should be so lucky that Congress would ever do that as opposed to just sticking it to everyone.

  30. “All I can say about the sports complex is that it was done on time and under budget,” said Donald Moore, a Palin ally who managed the construction. “It was done legally, and for someone else to say it could have been done differently in a better way, that’s strictly their opinion.”

    What do you say to somebody who wonders why it was done at all?

  31. “That’s just not an accurate statement. They’ve criticized him for his record on the drug war, Amtrak, hawkishness, the Patriot Act, gun control and on and on.”

    How much of that was Pre-Palin? Further, Palin is probably a lot closer to their views than Biden is. The Reason people just think anyone with an “R” after their names is just icky. They are journalists. They can’t help it.

  32. SIV- 10:16-

    Maybe we should find out what was in the brownies at those bake sales?

  33. What do you say to somebody who wonders why it was done at all?

    Some variation on “Grab your ankles and I’ll guide you through our complaint resolution process”.

  34. There are a lot of shifty defenses here for why a piece of land with a negotiated price of $126,000 ended up costing the town over $1 million. Sure, the citizens voted for it, and eminent domain was for a public purpose, etc. The giant pink elephant in the room is the executive incompetence of Palin’s mayoral administration.

  35. “What do you say to somebody who wonders why it was done at all?”

    AGain, take it up with the people who voted for it. The people in the town wanted a hockey rink. They had a vote and decided to do it. It is call direct democracy. Why shouldn’t they be able to build a hockey rink. I guess you could argue that the city has no right to tax for anything, but that seems a bit extreme. I may not agree with the idea but I don’t live there. They seem to be happy with it, so good for them.

  36. What do you say to somebody who wonders why it was done at all?

    Central Park. You don’t have to use it to appreciate its value to the community.

  37. “The giant pink elephant in the room is the executive incompetence of Palin’s mayoral administration.”

    You certainly want it to be there, but it is not clear from the article what happened. What legal advice did she get from the city attorney? Why did they think they had a deal and then the NC sold it out from under them? Who is to say the court was right? Not every court decision gets it exactly right. You can’t tell from the article. But since it is Palin, my guess is that she is in league with the land developer, whom she was having an affair with, and she pocketed all the extra money. That seems to be the standard of journalistic proof for things related to her.

  38. The Reason people just think anyone with an “R” after their names is just icky. They are journalists. They can’t help it.

    Could be. Especially when your worldview says that not fellating the elephant means that one must have a thing for donkeys rather than simply disdaining bestiality altogether.

  39. Again, take it up with the people who voted for it. The people in the town United States wanted a hockey rink universal health care system. They had a vote and decided to do it. It is called direct democracy communism or socialism (or whatever the right calls government programs that they didn’t think of first).

  40. Why shouldn’t they be able to build a hockey rink.

    Why don’t they use their own fucking money?

  41. Cut welfare spending: go to Hell. It’s just that simple.

    Wow. People really believe this shit? Cue joe to tell us how it’s really just truth, and “Community Organizing” is god’s work.

  42. The woman left her town $20 million in debt. I didn’t even think that was possible for such a small town.

  43. Especially when your worldview says that not fellating the elephant means that one must have a thing for donkeys rather than simply disdaining bestiality altogether

    “Sex with animals?!? There’s no time, man!”

  44. could we honestly argue about anything stupider?

  45. Lamar, if you can’t see the difference between the people in a town getting together and building a hockey rink and socialism, you are a crank and troll. You either beleive in federalism or you don’t. At the local level, I see nothing wrong with towns and cities building public use facilities with tax money. I have a real problem with the federal government sending them the money to do it, but if they want to take their own tax money and do it, that is their business.

    Come on Lamr, you are not Joe. Be serous.

  46. John,

    AGain, take it up with the people who voted for it.

    Since when did majoritarianism become the great “conservative” value? If that is indeed the only reason that Palin sought out the property, etc. then I am even less inclined to vote for McCain-Palin.

  47. Here’s what I’m getting at:

    Everyone bogged down in the details of Palin’s mayoral record is missing the point. Assume Team Red’s best case scenario, in which she managed the city flawlessly and brilliantly, and went on to a short term as governor in which she performed just as well.

    In this scenario, even her impeccable record isn’t very relevant to the office of President, and furthermore, she’s shown no sign that she has an above-average intellectual capability. She’s a lightweight, and may not even be a particularly smart lightweight.

  48. could we honestly argue about anything stupider?

    Sure, probably happen before the day is out.

  49. “You certainly want it to be there, but it is not clear from the article what happened.”

    Sometimes things just go awry. I can understand that. And when they do, the person in charge gets the blame. GOPers talk big about taking personal responsibility, then they point fingers when things go wrong.

    “But since it is Palin, my guess is that she is in league with the land developer, whom she was having an affair with, and she pocketed all the extra money.”

    Perfect example of shielding Palin from legitimate criticism because she’s a woman. Maybe she did pocket some big cash in the deal, but there’s no evidence that anybody made that claim in print. That’s simply you imagining some trumped up attack, then being offended that anybody would stoop to such a level.

  50. The deeper problem, John, is that this is something the government shouldn’t be paying for at all. If Palin supported it, then that cuts against her reputation as a friend to limited government and a foe of wasteful spending. I might be more forgiving if she only seemed to support such spending on the local level, but when you combine stories like this with her willingness to ask the feds for funds, she doesn’t look good.

    (I think it’s funny, by the way, that when I post defenses of Palin against phony charges, Reason is accused of being in the tank for the GOP, and when one of us posts a legitimate criticism of her, we’re accused of being in the tank for Obama.)

  51. Elemenope-10:04

    Ah, bread and circus?

    Another variation on that theme is reflected in the minds of your fellow New Englanders. I trust that you would agree that Tom Brady’s knee is of far greater concern to the average “Joe” (IMO, although our Joe, I believe, is a bay stater, he is of a much higher caliber) in these here parts than the difference between the Palin rhetoric and the Palin reality.

  52. “The woman left her town $20 million in debt. I didn’t even think that was possible for such a small town.”

    What kind of debt was it? Lots of towns are in debt. It is called “capital improvement”. One of the more moronic lies sold to tax payers by politicians is the idea that the government should never be in debt. If the debt is servicible and is paying for long term capital improvements, it is not an issue. If the debt is used to fund operating expenses or is so large it can’t be serviced, that is a problem. I have yet to see anything explaining what the $20 million of debt was.

  53. Maybe Reason could take a page from the MSNBC play book here. Or at least teach Weigel some breathing exercises…

    Is this not embarrassing for the rest of you reason staffers?

  54. John, when she came in it had a balanced budget and a much lower level of government spending.

    Now, you’re going to tell me that expanding the local government budget and plunging the town into debt is a good thing? It doesn’t bode well for her budgeting abilities, or all her talk about reducing the size of government. When she was Mayor, she GREW government.

  55. I trust that you would agree that Tom Brady’s knee is of far greater concern to the average “Joe” (IMO, although our Joe, I believe, is a bay stater, he is of a much higher caliber)

    Those ignoramuses. How DARE they not delve into the nuances of an individual who has been nominated for the Vice Presidency, a job that had very little relevance until Dick Cheney.

    See, “higher caliber” people don’t care about such pedestrian things like the NFL. They should really care about a local town’s governmental drama.

  56. I think it’s funny, by the way, that when I post defenses of Palin against phony charges, Reason is accused of being in the tank for the GOP, and when one of us posts a legitimate criticism of her, we’re accused of being in the tank for Obama.

    Oh, Jesse, don’t you get it? You have Fluffy on one side with his hate of all things McCain and John on the other with his love of all things Palin. You can’t win. Join me in appreciating the stupidity of it all by becoming retarded. Full Retard.

  57. “The deeper problem, John, is that this is something the government shouldn’t be paying for at all.”

    First, I don’t have a problem with cities paying for stuff that the public can actually use. This is a pretty benign project to complaining about. It is not like she got taxes through on some BS publicly funded minor league sports facility or something.

    As far as her asking for the Federal money, that is what governors do. What about Ron Paul?

    “After reporters started asking questions, the Congressman disclosed his requests this year for about $400 million worth of federal funding for no fewer than 65 earmarks. They include such urgent national wartime priorities as an $8 million request for the marketing of wild American shrimp and $2.3 million to fund shrimp-fishing research.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118636043871288806.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

    That is a hell of a lot more than a hockey ring that the community who benefited paid for. I don’t recall anyone at Reason ever saying that Ron Paul wasn’t for small government.

  58. The “small town drama” is 90% of her much-touted “executive experience” since she’s only been Governor of Alaska for less than two years, and submitted only ONE state budget.

  59. could we honestly argue about anything stupider?

    I recommend the many posts on her appearance rather than her record. This is one of the most substantive posts. You are free to call that faint praise.

  60. Episiarchic,

    I am not in love with everything Palin. I just think Reason is full of shit and grasping for straws. They day they come up with something besides bullshit or stop applying double standards, I will agree with them.

  61. BDB – it’s either entirely irrelevant, or the greater story is that Obama has less executive experience and is at the TOP of the ticket.

    The arguing about the minutiae of this is just. plain. ridiculous. I’d be way more outraged if she, I dunno, abused the SWAT teams or something.

    People, this is the Vice Presidency we’re talking about.

  62. Wasilla est pacata.

    &

    Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.

  63. I’ve been screamed-at for pointing this out, but it was a hockey player who knocked-up Palin’s daughter. Maybe less of an obsession with hockey subsidies might have led to less of a problem with her daughter being obsessed with the hockey player? I know, I must be a sexist for thinking this way…

  64. TAO-

    The Vice President is pretty relevant when we’re talking about someone who has had cancer twice and is 72.

  65. John,

    I don’t recall anyone at Reason ever saying that Ron Paul wasn’t for small government.

    So because Paul did X, that means it is alright for Palin to do Y?

    …that is what governors do.

    So much for the “maverick” thing then.

  66. JMR – you’re not a sexist. That’s just an idiotic non-sequitur.

  67. They day they come up with something besides bullshit or stop applying double standards, I will agree with them

    The day that Jesse is shilling for either party is the day you get to call double standards. Get fucking serious. If you’re going to give somebody shit, Jesse is not the one.

  68. The Vice President is pretty relevant when we’re talking about someone who has had cancer twice and is 72.

    Ask yourself two questions:

    1. Does this “experience” I keep hearing about really matter all that much?

    2. Could she do any worse than her running mate or the other side in the number one spot? That’s setting the bar pretty low.

  69. “The “small town drama” is 90% of her much-touted “executive experience” since she’s only been Governor of Alaska for less than two years, and submitted only ONE state budget.”

    What is the budget like? From wikipedia, which I will admit is of dubious accuracy on an issue like that.

    “In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budget-the largest in Alaska’s history.[70] At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to nearly $1.6 billion.[71]”

    That doesn’t seem too bad. But maybe she is a tax and spend media whore. If so, I would like to know about it. I am sorry but a single hockey rink, doesn’t quite cut it.


  70. 1. Does this “experience” I keep hearing about really matter all that much?”

    Well, since it involves being in charge of a nuclear arsenal among other things, I’d say “yes”. We’re talking about a woman who didn’t even know what the surge was until she saw it on TV a few weeks ago.

    “2. Could she do any worse than her running mate or the other side in the number one spot?”

    Judging from her non-relationship with her city council and then her state legislature and her inability to separate family issues from professional work, yes.

  71. John,

    I just think Reason is full of shit and grasping for straws.

    You have as yet to make a remark which makes Palin look attractive from a small government POV.

  72. So Lamar, let’s compare

    Local government uses local tax money to build a public-use, recreational facility that charges user fees to anyone that wants to use the facility. Everyone is forced to underwrite the facility through local taxes, but no one is compelled to use the facility and no one shuts down any competing recreational facilities that might offer alternative opportunities to the general public.

    Federal government uses national tax system to impose one-size-fits-all health insurance. Everyone is forced to underwrite the new insurance; everyone is compelled to use the new insurance; and all competing systems are shut down.

    Yeah, I can see how those are exactly the same.

  73. TAO-

    I bet that our Joe knows his football. He is too much of free thinker though to be an “In Belichek, we trust” type of guy.

  74. Seriously, Palin is everything I find most obnoxious about Obama magnified times ten.

  75. “The day that Jesse is shilling for either party is the day you get to call double standards. Get fucking serious. If you’re going to give somebody shit, Jesse is not the one.:”

    I call double standards. Why the hell does REason love Ron Paul and never seem to care about his earmark issues and think this is somehow a big deal. If Jessee thinks this makes Palin uncredible in her claims for liking small government, why doesn’t he think the same about Paul?

  76. “if you can’t see the difference between the people in a town getting together and building a hockey rink and socialism, you are a crank and troll.”

    I’m pointing out that right wing government boondoggles are as indicative of executive incompetence as left wing government boondoggles.

  77. Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.

    Please don’t do that; I may fall in love over the internet which is fully retarded.

  78. John do you think the Mayor of Atlanta would be qualified to be Vice President?

  79. Well, since it involves being in charge of a nuclear arsenal among other things, I’d say “yes”. We’re talking about a woman who didn’t even know what the surge was until she saw it on TV a few weeks ago.

    Again, even with her displayed ignorance on the subject of Iraq, how does this argument not cut against Obama even worse, given the fact he’s on the top of the ticket?

  80. “You guys never seem to be too interested in posting on that and last I looked he was running for VP to.”

    But Joe’s not sexy or a Republican.

  81. John,

    Why the hell does REason love Ron Paul…

    It should be noted that for months and months this year the writers here got flack for coverage of the Paul campaign.

  82. “Again, even with her displayed ignorance on the subject of Iraq, how does this argument not cut against Obama even worse, given the fact he’s on the top of the ticket?”

    She has even less than Obama. Obama, since he’s on the Foreign Relations Committee, has at least had briefings on things like that. She makes Obama look like Bobby Byrd in terms of experience.

  83. If you’re going to give somebody shit, Jesse is not the one.

    Weigel is the designated Dem shill at Reason

  84. “John do you think the Mayor of Atlanta would be qualified to be Vice President?”

    If he got elected governor of Georgia, he might be. Further, I don’t recall anyone saying John Edwards was unqualified to be VP. All he had ever been was a crooked attorney and a one term Senator. I don’t ever recall Reason having kittens over him.

  85. Actually, TAO, you and I probably know more about Iraq than Palin does.

  86. John-

    The Mayor of Atlanta governs about as many people as the Governor of Alaska, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Atlanta has a larger budget. Also, the Mayor of Atlanta doesn’t get the benefit of swimming in oil money.

    Admit it. If Obama picked a left-wing Mayor of Atlanta to be his running mate you would be foaming at the mouth.

  87. BDB – gosh, I would hope at least I do! I’ve been there.

    I hate the way Dick Cheney has changed the VP question though. The VP used to be the joke office.

    9/11 Syndrome strikes again.

  88. If Jessee thinks this makes Palin uncredible in her claims for liking small government, why doesn’t he think the same about Paul?

    Jesse just defended Palin yesterday. Since when do any of us take a shitbag politician seriously anyway? Palin is a fucking politician. So is Ron Paul.

  89. 1. Does this “experience” I keep hearing about really matter all that much?
    Yes, unless the candidate has demonstrated exceptional leadership and intellect. Palin has shown signs of neither.

    2. Could she do any worse than her running mate or the other side in the number one spot? That’s setting the bar pretty low.
    I think that there is significantly more downside to a Palin presidency than an Obama presidency. This isn’t to say that I will be voting for Obama, but you asked for a comparison.

    Palin is a dealbreaker, period.

  90. Could she do any worse than her running mate or the other side in the number one spot? That’s setting the bar pretty low.

    Hey, you go the election with the bar you have. Or, you go to the bar with the election you have. Either way works for me.

  91. John,

    I don’t ever recall Reason having kittens over him.

    There have been a fair amount of content here about the Edwards campaign, and I suspect that most of it has been critical in nature.

  92. John do you think the Mayor of Atlanta would be qualified to be Vice President?

    Shirley Franklin? Sure, she would make an excellent VP in a corrupt Democrat administration. The former mayor, Bill Campbell, is probably disqualified by that “living in a Federal prison” thing.

  93. TAO if McCain were 52 and in good health I wouldn’t care. I know he already favors the “warm bucket of spit” version of the Presidency. It’s the fact he’s old and had issues with cancer that makes it more relevant to me.

  94. The thing that bothers me most about Palin is I thought McCain was the serious candidate. Palin is not really a serious pick. It’s a gimmick and a chewey toy for the Republican base.

  95. “Admit it. If Obama picked a left-wing Mayor of Atlanta to be his running mate you would be foaming at the mouth.”

    Bullshit. I would have voted for Guilliani and he has only been a mayor. I don’t see how a big city mayor is unqualified to be VP. Since when did Reason decide that you must be a Washington insider to be VP? Why the hell not let someone from the outside have a shot? It is not like the people who are there are doing such a bang up job. If Palin were a centrist Dem, Reason would be in love with her and Weigel would be on here waxing philosophical about how she brings an outsiders perspective to government and we would never hear about things like the Hockey rink.

  96. While she may have been an incompetent mayor, she seems like someone I’d like to have a beer with.

  97. John New York City has the population of a medium sized state. Of course the Mayor of NYC would be qualified. Probably the Mayor of L.A., too.

    Alaska has 600,000 people. That’s a middling city–about the same size as Charlotte, or Washington DC or Atlanta. Not only that, but it’s swimming in oil money. No though decisions have to be made there. It’s like being Emir of Kuwait.

  98. Palin is a dealbreaker, period.

    And Biden isn’t? you have really bizarre standards.

    There is enough to hate McCain about…can we go back to talking about that?

    Can we talk about Obama’s lies about cutting taxes? How stupid his “windfall profits” tax idea is?

    Wasn’t there an argument in 2004 to vote for Kerry so we could get divided government? How come I’m not hearing that in 2008 from this crowd?

  99. “Jesus is a community organizer, Pilate was a governor”

    It will be interesting to see how long the RNC keeps hammering on that community organizer thing…

  100. “It will be interesting to see how long the RNC keeps hammering on that community organizer thing…”

    That is because most people have no idea what one is beyond some college kid knocking on your door during dinner trying to get you to sign a petition to stop global warming. It is an amorphous term that most people will put pajorative context to. Honestly, name the first community organizer that comes to your mind after Obama? I bet most people would say Al Sharpton. That is not a good thing if you are Obama.

  101. Damn Neu,

    Where ya been? They have been making fun of the astroturfed Obama campaign Jesus/Pilate meme all over the rightwing blogs for nearly a week now.

  102. Please don’t do that; I may fall in love over the internet which is fully retarded.

    That’s the problem with full retard. You *never* go full retard!

    Latin is a fantastic language to insult people in, or even just to make commentary; rightists think it is to elite or uppity to learn, and leftists don’t have the skillz.

    The experience question is ultimately stupid; the job is unlike any other. People with lots of experience in government and neophytes have turned out either to suck or be worthy at about an equal ratio. What terrifies me about Palin is not inexperience, per se, but rather the actual evidence of her failures at management, or critical thought for that matter.

    Much might be dispelled if she were to talk, unscripted, perhaps on a news program…

  103. And Biden isn’t? you have really bizarre standards.

    Where did I say I was voting for Obama/Biden? You are a total shill who can’t wrap his head around the fact that an independent voter might make a rational decision to not vote for your team.

  104. New York City has 8.2 million people.

    Massachusetts, a mid-size state has 6.4 million

    Charlotte, N.C., a third-tier Ameircan city has 695,995

    The entire state of Alaska 683,478 people. Less than Charlotte.

    So is the Mayor of Charlotte qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency, too?

  105. Honestly, this is one time the Obama people have a point about code words. “Community organizer” is just code for “angry negro”. The Obama people should have got out in front of this and reframed his experience with a different term.

  106. matt2 – I’m not on a team, you screaming dolt. Didn’t I just say “There are enough problems with McCain that this Palin shit is pretty much irrelevant”?

    I do still stand by my statement that you have bizarre “dealbreaker” standards. Was McCain alone not enough for you in the first place?

  107. “Much might be dispelled if she were to talk, unscripted, perhaps on a news program…”

    she is going on with Charlie Gibson this week. Also, you will have her debate Biden on October 2.

  108. My favorite part of the convention was watching Giuliani trash community organizers even though he often had high praise for them when he was Mayor of NYC.

    Of course, he also trashed “cosmopolitan” areas. This despite the fact he lives in a Manhattan Penthouse.

  109. Clarification: BECAUSE MCCAIN IS 72 YEARS OLD. That’s why Palin is a dealbreaker, because there’s a decent chance that you’re voting for her to be President.

  110. a heartbeat away from the Presidency, too?

    Is Joe Biden, by libertarian standards, qualified for this?

    anyway, if I hear that “one heartbeat away” cliche one more time, I might punch a puppy.

  111. Kinmath-

    Not so fast:

    1. What is government doing taking money from its citizens to build hockey rinks? Just because it is local does not sanitize it from rigorous libertarian, anti-government scrutiny.
    The fact remains that folks had their property confiscated so that some rent seeking developers could make a buck. They were compelled to surrender their property to the thuggish Palin administration. Not good, limited small government in action and not a position to be defending.

    2. User fees? So, the taxpayers are hosed again? It wasn’t enough that a Wasillian’s property was confiscated in the first instance to build the boondoogle, but he must cough up more in case he wants to play some indoor hoops? Furthermore, we already have socialized medicine with user fees.

    3. By defintion, the taxpayers of Wasilla were forever deprived of using the money confiscated from them on more productive uses-of their own choosing.

  112. so, for everyone involved, can we just admit that the Palin attacks are oblique attacks on McCain’s age?

  113. Elemenope,

    I agree with you that experience is way overrated. Jimmy Carter had a hell of a lot more experience than Ronald Reagan. Hell, Nixon has been a VP for 8 years. He had a lot more international experience and relevent experience to be President than Humphrey or Kennedy. How did that one work out.

    I always look at sports analogy. If experience is so important, the Clevland Cavs were foolish to draft LaBron James, a guy who had never played passed high school, when guys with three and four years of college experience were available.

  114. If he had chosen Tom Ridge or even Tim Pawlenty (who actually Governs a real state if substantial size, not a glorified urban county) I wouldn’t care so much about McCain’s age.

  115. I don’t know, John, I think the Governor of California is better prepared than the Governor of Georgia.

  116. TAO-11:22

    I agree. Tired, overused city.

  117. BDB,

    But Carter had been President for four years when they ran against each other. If experience were the most important thing, why wouldn’t we re-elect every President? Bubba Clinton actually said it best, nothing really prepares you for that job other than doing it. My guess is that every other living President would agree.

  118. TAO: I may have confused you with one of the other Team Red shills.

    To clarify once more, of course I have issues with McCain. However, for practical purposes, rather than voting third party, I had been considering voting for a Team Red/Blue candidate.

    McCain/Obama have their flaws, but I would be comfortable with either of them making decisions at the highest level. I would not be comfortable with Sarah Palin making those decisions, and as such, Team Red is out.

  119. I’m not sure why people engage John. He will say anything, ANYTHING, to defend republican malfeasance. For as much shit as Joe takes around here, John’s just the other side of the coin.

  120. Well John because Carter proved he was a failure, mostly.

    McCain has been pushing the experience line all summer, and saying his #1 priority for picking a VP was someone ready to step into the Presidency at a moments notice. Palin isn’t ready.

    Whats more shes everything I dislike about Obama–picked for identity politics, lightweight, more image than substance, and the subject of idol worship (in her case made more creepy by the weird sexual angle).

  121. matt2, forgive my tone, but being called a shill for a party I abandoned is like spitting in my eye 😀

    McCain/Obama have their flaws, but I would be comfortable with either of them making decisions at the highest level.

    In 2000, you could have said the same things about Bush and Gore. I realize now that the country should have just disbanded with those two choices.

  122. This is not an “attack” on McCain’s age. It’s a fact that McCain’s VP would be more likely to take over as president than Obama’s VP. It’s simply a practical consideration.

  123. Where ya been? They have been making fun of the astroturfed Obama campaign Jesus/Pilate meme all over the rightwing blogs for nearly a week now.

    I guess not hanging out in the right wing blogosphere.

    Of course, a week of the people trying the strategy making fun of the response to that strategy means that it is a winning strategy.

    Right?

    “They haven’t talked about the fact that I was a civil rights lawyer; they haven’t talked about the fact that I taught constitutional law; they haven’t talked about my work in the state legislature, in the United States Senate. They’re talking about the three years of work that I did right out of college as if… I’m making the leap from two or three years out of college into the presidency.”

    Obama acknowledged that his campaign had focused attention on his experience as a community organizer. But he said, “I would argue that doing work in the community to try and create jobs, to bring people together, to rejuvenate communities that have fallen on hard times, to set up job-training programs in areas that have been hard hit when the steel plants closed, that that’s relevant only in understanding where I’m coming from, who I believe in, who I’m fighting for and why I’m in this race.

    “And the question I have for them is? Why would that kind of work be ridiculous? Who are they fighting for? Who are they advocating for?

    “Maybe that’s the problem,” Obama concluded. “Maybe that’s part of why they are out of touch and don’t get it because they haven’t spent much time working for those kind of folks.”

  124. she is going on with Charlie Gibson this week

    They staged it as one of those “interviews” where he gets to talk to her for a little while on three separate occasions.

    Which means she can cancel the rest of the interview at any point if Gibson doesn’t show her enough “deference” (McCain campaign’s term for how she should be interviewed).

    This is how it normally works for models, actresses, and other celebrities, not people running for office.

  125. If you want to paint Obama as an elitist, it is helpful to not act like an elitist yourself.

  126. This is how it normally works for models, actresses, and other celebrities, not people running for office.

    Get real. The media are not tough on candidates either, joe.

  127. anyway, if I hear that “one heartbeat away” cliche one more time, I might punch a puppy.

    At least, if you would, hit a Chihuahua. They ain’t got no reason to live.

    But, if you’d prefer, for rhetorical sanity:

    She’s one metastisized melanola/stroke/myocardial infarction away from the presidency!

    The actual tables on a man his age *with cancer* don’t exactly inspire confidence. On the other hand, his mother is a tough old broad. Maybe he got the good jeans. Would you like to wager the country on it?

    Hell, Nixon has been a VP for 8 years. He had a lot more international experience and relevent experience to be President than Humphrey or Kennedy. How did that one work out.

    FWIW, Nixon was a foreign policy badass. Between Kissinger’s hard-line realism and Nixon’s political cover vis a vis opening up the Communist East…

    I’m willing to give Nixon a host of foreign-policy kudos, if only if it is tempered by his disgusting domestic behavior. Then again, his power abuses absolutely pale in comparison to any more modern president…

  128. Oh shut up Seitz. I rip on Republicans all the time on here. You should read what I have to say about Republicans in Congress. They are theiving scumbags and mostly old perverts more interested in cruising for gay sex than they are in doing anything for the country. Further, I have never been a huge fan of McCain. The war in Iraq is the only thing I have ever agreed with him about. Just because I can’t stand the Democrats doesnt’ mean I have some polyannaish view of Republicans. Lastly, what negative have you ever said about Democrats? I have never seen it.

  129. …good genes, even.

    Though, his momma also probably didn’t skimp on jeans.

  130. Well, TAO, even by ordinary media standards, this is a training wheels and kid gloves operation.

    Biden was on Meet the Press yesterday. When’s Palin doing a Sunday show?

  131. Would you like to wager the country on it?

    The President =/= The Country.

    We had an experienced governor from 1992 – 2000 and from 2000 – 2008. This experience stuff cuts both ways.

  132. “I’m willing to give Nixon a host of foreign-policy kudos, if only if it is tempered by his disgusting domestic behavior. Then again, his power abuses absolutely pale in comparison to any more modern president…”

    Bullshit. They were a hundred times worse. If they pale in comparision, they pale in comparision to what Johnson and Kennnedy did. People are so ignorant of history it amazes me. All three of those Presidents used the CIA and FBI to spy on their political opponents for the purpose of political dirt. No recent President, not Clinton, not Reagan, not either Bush has done anything approaching something that bad.

  133. libertymike was that satire intentional?

  134. As horrible as Jimmy Carter was I give him credit for rolling back the powers that Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon used that John talks about above.

  135. This is why I don’t read Reason as much anymore. Reasons readers should have spent more time in Civics class and less time in Latin Class. Local governments finance schools ,libraries, parks, baseball fields and yes indoor Hockey rinks with bond issues and its a normal way to get things built for the community, financed by the community. My High school in Cupertino California took twenty years to get funded and built in the 1950’s and 60’s. You should see the indoor BMX track north of Richland Washington. Out in the middle of totally nowhere yet the community that raised the funds loves it and that is as it should be. Maybe they could have a bond issue and get all the street signs translated into Latin? Most of the comments here have it totally wrong…. that’s why I read American Thinker. Adequatio intellectus et rei.

  136. Lastly, what negative have you ever said about Democrats? I have never seen it.

    I didn’t just write a whole bullshit paragraph pretending to be independent, did I?

  137. Biden was on Meet the Press yesterday. When’s Palin doing a Sunday show?

    Brokaw was throwin’ softballs with just enough argumentation to make it look like “tough questioning”. It wasn’t.

  138. “Biden was on Meet the Press yesterday. When’s Palin doing a Sunday show?”

    You mean Joe Biden is still alive? wow. You could have fooled me. She will do them. She is doing Charles Gibson this week. They will get her out there.

    Sometimes I wonder if people are really that smart or just blunder into good fortune. The fact is that the McCain campaign keeping Palin under wraps before her speech and letting the media go wild and show themselves has turned out to be brillant. The media so discredited themselves last week, I am not sure even legitimate criticisms of her are going to stick. The media really fuck themselves and maybe Obama on this one.

  139. “Local governments finance schools ,libraries, parks, baseball fields and yes indoor Hockey rinks with bond issues and its a normal way to get things built for the community, financed by the community.”

    Exactly Roy. There is nothing wrong with that.

  140. “more than a million dollars tha[n] [Palin] budgeted . . .”

    Wasted over a million dollars? Whoa, I bet the Congressmen running against her are really indignant to hear this, not to mention the Senator whose ticket she’s running on. McCain must be livid to find that she’s wasted a million dollars.

    Think of all the things Congress could have done with that kind of money!

  141. Wait, public group (1) tries to buy land from public group (2) who then decides to sell to private party (1), before mentioned public group (1) then uses eminant domain to take smaller piece of land that they originally sought to build a public sports arena because the mayor at the time of original land inquiry had a son who played hockey.

    This can’t happen, we are in America. Next thing you are going to tell me is that the US Treasury is going to buy out freddie and fannie.

  142. John,

    Let’s see what the media came up with…

    1) Bridge to no where…”I said Thanks, but no thanks.”

    Quickly debunked. She said please, then thanks for the money, then…I will use the money for something else.

    2) Balanced budget when she became mayor, city in debt when she left.

    3) Asked for a loyalty test for city employees. This included asking librarian if she was willing to ban books at the mayor’s whim. It also included asking for resignations from those she felt weren’t “loyal enough.” What kind of loyalty does a small town librarian need to demonstrate.

    etc…

  143. I’m just glad to see that this election is on track to be the Dumbest. Election. Ever.

    “What does Obama’s church believe??!!! THIS IS CRUCIAL!”
    “Did the Republican VP candidate actually BOTCH A HOCKEY RINK??? ZOMG!11!!”
    “McCain raised his hand to someone…Holy SHIT!!”

    I’m voting for the candidate who is going to keep scotch cheap. I’m going to need it.

  144. Brokaw was throwin’ softballs with just enough argumentation to make it look like “tough questioning”. It wasn’t.

    I wish they were even harder on politicians on those shows, too. You just nailed it – that is the “tough” treatment, and it’s pretty sorry. Nonetheless, that’s about the closest thing the media does a tough interview in this country (as opposed to Britain, where some girl made George Bush wet his pants last year by actually calling him on something). If Palin can’t even stand up to Tom Brokaw, how’s she supposed to sand up to Vladimir Putin?

    She will do them. I don’t know. I think they’re afraid to let her do anything but read scripts and do soft-focus Barbara Wawa interviews, because they’re afraid she’ll call Obama “Macaca.”

  145. LOYALTY TESTS!
    BILL AYRES!
    BRISTOL PALIN!
    Where is Obama’s Birth Certificate?

    Somebody…pass me the hooch…

  146. “She will do them. I don’t know. I think they’re afraid to let her do anything but read scripts and do soft-focus Barbara Wawa interviews, because they’re afraid she’ll call Obama “Macaca.”

    In your dreams Joe. Go on Youtube and watch the 2006 governor’s debate. She was really good. She too good not to get out there. I will be the first to admit that giving a good speech and giving a good talk show doesn’t mean you are right. If anything we put way too much emphasis on that. But, there is not evidence whatsoever that she can’t handle doing it. She will kill on those shows.

  147. Oh, Jesse, don’t you get it? You have Fluffy on one side with his hate of all things McCain and John on the other with his love of all things Palin. You can’t win. Join me in appreciating the stupidity of it all by becoming retarded. Full Retard.

    “Full Retard” was discussed prviously on these pages and the general consensus is this campaign has gone beyond full retard quite some time ago. I personally like Hyper Retard, but other honest opinions Mega Retard, Ultra Retard, et al, do exist.

    Back to the topic at hand –
    Ignoring the details of the project execution, a taxpayer funded hockey rink is unquestionably morally wrong. As soon as my entertainment preferences of loose women and quality booze are taxpayer subsidized, I will rethink my passionate objection to publicly funded hockey rinks, baseball stadiums and golf courses.

  148. I bet that our Joe knows his football. He is too much of free thinker though to be an “In Belichek, we trust” type of guy.

    joe, like all of us, is woefully ignorant on some subects. Football is not one of them.

  149. J Sub D,

    If you can convince your local town to subsidize whore houses and bars, you go for it. As long as it is your town’s tax dollars and not mine, that is fine with me. Unlike the country, I can chose not to live there without much of a problem. That is why federalism is such a good thing. If New York wants to be the people’s republic, they can be and you and I can choose not to live there.

    It is kind of funny to hear you totally forget any alligence to federalism and get pissed off over some hockey rink in a place you will never live and then call everyone else a retard. Project much there J?

  150. Of course Joe is a Bellicheck guy. But it is not his fault. Football teams and sports teams in general are cults. If you are born into them there is no escaping. Joe is in New England and in the Patriots cult. You just can’t help it.

  151. Please don’t do that; I may fall in love over the internet which is fully retarded.

    So Latin is the way to seduce the good ones? It’s taken me much too long to discover this.

    rightists think it is to elite or uppity to learn, and leftists don’t have the skillz.

    Making my seduction thesis all the stronger: instant elimination of partisan hacks.

  152. Ignoring the details of the project execution, a taxpayer funded hockey rink is unquestionably morally wrong.

    I tend to agree. Unquestionably, if it is for the use of a professional sports team. A case can be made that a genuinely open-to-the-public sports thingie is more of a municipal facility, etc., but, man, that’s a lot of money for a small town to sink into something that the mayor is personally a fan of.

  153. TAO,

    I am with you on most of your list, but I think the loyalty test thing is relevant as it reveals how Palin views executive power. My sister works in state government…she has never been subjected to a loyalty test by either Republican nor Democratic governors…and she is quite a bit farther up the food chain than librarian.

  154. Palin supports jury nullification. lalalalalalala, I can’t hear anything bad about her. Besides, any bill you find that she voted for….I bet you’ll find she just voted “present” like BO liked to do in my shitty state.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

    In his defense, the article claims Obama only votes “present” as a protest when voting for a bill he thinks is unconstitutional…glad that got cleared up!

  155. John and Roy-

    The non-aggression principle trumps federalism.

  156. So Latin is the way to seduce the good ones?

    Yes.

  157. Palin supports jury nullification. lalalalalalala, I can’t hear anything bad about her.

    Her and Christine Gregoire of WA.

    How shiny does Christine’s libertarian decoder ring look to ya?

  158. John,

    Go on Youtube and watch the 2006 governor’s debate. She was really good.

    It’s not her speaking ability that’s the problem. George Allen was a good speaker, too.

    And if you don’t give Bill B. great deal of deference in coaching and personnel decisions at this point, you just haven’t been paying attention.

  159. John-

    Although Joe has been harsh on me, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on being a red sox and patriots yahoo. There are some fans here who do not root for laundry.
    Not many, I admit. But some.

  160. Local governments finance schools ,libraries, parks, baseball fields and yes indoor Hockey rinks with bond issues and its a normal way to get things built for the community, financed by the community.

    Exactly Roy. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Uhh, yes there is.
    Schools – I’ll buy education vouchers for kids up to age eighteen. Public schools? Nope.
    Libraries – I’ll grudgingly accept public libraries as a legitimate government expenditure. That is not to deny that much library spending is completely out of bounds.
    Parks – I’ll even acquiesce on the government buying the land. I’ll not agree with maintenance or amenities provided at taxpayer expense.
    Baseball fields – No fucking way.
    Hockey Rinks – See baseball fields.

  161. J Sub D,

    If you can convince your local town to subsidize whore houses and bars, you go for it. As long as it is your town’s tax dollars and not mine, that is fine with me. Unlike the country, I can chose not to live there without much of a problem.

    Jesus H. McChrist! Dan T. has taken over the John’s consciousness!

  162. John and Joe-

    Around here, if one praises Peyton Manning, the yahoos typically respond , “oh, you think that Brady sucks?” Joe, I don’t think that you are in this camp.

    OTOH, no serious fan doubts that the hooded one is a good coach.

  163. Epi-12:21

    Ceteris paribus.

  164. Now, Theo: Theo Epstein only signed Julio Lugo to fake y’alls out.

    Also, lalalalalalalala I can’t hear you.

  165. My sister works in state government…she has never been subjected to a loyalty test by either Republican nor Democratic governors…and she is quite a bit farther up the food chain than librarian.

    If she’s civil service (which all but a relative handful of state employees are), she’s impossible to fire based on her political views.

    The appointed positions at the very top of the food chain are, almost without exception, turned over whenever a new gov. comes in.

    I’m just not sure the comparison of governor – mayor really works here.

  166. I must be an idiot. How could a subsidy on a thing lead to more attention/attraction for that thing??

  167. If she’s civil service (which all but a relative handful of state employees are), she’s impossible to fire based on her political views.

    The appointed positions at the very top of the food chain are, almost without exception, turned over whenever a new gov. comes in.

    I’m just not sure the comparison of governor – mayor really works here.

    So, are you are saying that librarian is not “civil service”?

    Or are you saying that because the system that a small town mayor controls is so much smaller, there are not the same legal impediments to this kind of abuse of power?

    If she were president, she would face many structural impediments to her executive power…just like our current president.

  168. I’m just not sure the comparison of governor – mayor really works here

    Mayor is to governor as governor is to president?

  169. If she’s civil service (which all but a relative handful of state employees are), she’s impossible to fire based on her political views.

    Unless it’s the Justice Department.

  170. Ceteris paribus

    Vero, amor caecus non est.

    (I’m guessing on my grammar there, so feel free to correct.)

  171. So, are you are saying that librarian is not “civil service”?

    In some communities (Wasilla for example) the librarian is a patronage position.

  172. Vero, amor caecus non est.

    Looks correct, though in this case you might not put a linking verb at the end of the sentence.

    Credite amori vera dicenti.

  173. Video , EGO can scriptor Latin in internet quoque. EGO sum smart quod philologus.

    Poseurs.

  174. Credite amori vera dicenti.

    Quoting a saint? Apparently you’re not so evil after all.

  175. Come on guys, we ALL know Saint Sarah can do no wrong!

  176. Quoting a saint?

    DAMN IT. I didn’t expect you to source it. It’s the sentiment that counts.

    Apparently you’re not so evil after all.

    No, no, no. It’s even more evil to use the quotation of a saint for my nefarious purposes.

  177. SIV | September 8, 2008, 1:32pm | #
    So, are you are saying that librarian is not “civil service”?

    In some communities (Wasilla for example) the librarian is a patronage position.

    Or a matronage position, sure…not sure if that matters, but sure.

  178. Wasn’t there some eminent domain involved in all of this? It would be nice to see Obama try to run to the right of McCain/Palin by denouncing Kelo and talking about eminent domain using Palin.

  179. But MNG, Saint Sarah is PERFECT!

  180. I see it was after Palin left office that the eminent domain occurred.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    Still, she did push a tax increase for the stadium. I wonder if SIV thinks taxation (theft) for such uses is ok…

  181. Saint Sarah would never do such a thing.

    Why, she can field dress a moose, shoot a polar bear, wrestle a lobster and throw a silver dollar clear across the Bering Straits!

    < 3

  182. Repent, MNG, you have blasphemed against She Who Bringeth the Mooseburgers.

  183. Libertymike,

    “The non-aggression principle trumps federalism.”

    Unless you are a Consequentialist Libertarian.
    Not that I am. I’m a Republican. As in, I believe in the principals of the Republic. I’m also a Liberal.
    As in, I believe in the Constitution. The Kelo decision could not have been more fucked up and has no basis in the Constitution. As for Hockey rinks? Caveat utilitor.

    John,
    Is Reason itself in the tank for Obama or are the readers? I don’t read things here enough anymore to know.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.