Barack Obama and His See-Through Ears

Good for Barack Obama: He's released a list of every earmark he's requested since his legendary Senate career began, 26 months ago. Lynn Sweet has the list, direct from Team O, and spotlights this bit:

Obama sought money for the University of Chicago Hospitals. Wife Michelle works for the University of Chicago Hospitals, appointed in spring 2005 as vice president for community and external affairs at the University of Chicago Hospitals. She is now on leave from the job to campaign for her husband. Top campaign adviser and friend Valerie Jarrett is the Chair of the University of Chicago Medical Center Board and also Chair of the Executive Committee of that board. She has also been named Vice-Chair of the University's Board of Trustees. Obama taught at the U. of Chicago law school and the Obama's two daughters attend school there.

He could have left that bit of marking to Dick Durbin, couldn't he?

Comments

[javier]

obama's daughters attend the university of Chicago law school??? how old are they??

[highnumber]

javier,
I think it's a lab school at U of C.

[javier]

hmmmm, well i do believe that was a poor usage of a pronoun considering the U of C law school was the place name immediately before 'there' and no mention of a lab school (whatever the hell that is, i just picture eight year olds walking around in lab coats)

[technomist]

Could someone please explain this earmarking business for me. Is this where politicians pass laws of specific application to pay public money to their friends? What we in the UK might call corruption? Or have I misunderstood something?

[joe]

technomist,

The technical definition is an appropriatoins line item for a specific project that gets added at the request of a member, as opposed to just appropriating funds for the department in questions.

But it's come to mean the equivalent of "pork" - ie, wasteful spending added to provide someone with a political benefit. Not all earmarks are necessarily pork, and not all pork comes in the form of earmarks, but there is considerable overlap. It's a process that's ripe for abuse, which is why transparency is such an important tool.

[javier]

same same.

lawmakers pass bills to get a certain amount of money to send back to their districts for worth while projects and such. It just so happens that most of the projects they choose are run by their friends.

[technomist]

Thanks for explaining that. And this is the guy who is going to change things.

[TallDave]

Oh yeah, and Barack's pastor says blacks should "God damn America" not "God bless America."

Oh, and 9/11 was America's fault.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

Hope! Change!

[Art-P.O.G.]

Easy for Obama. He's been in politics for a short time, so it's simpler to appear only slightly "sleazy." Imagine how bad someone experienced *could* look. Yeah, obviously none of the frontrunners are complete breaks from some of the unfortunate "traditions" of politics.

*this is terribly off subject, but the hot female "cop" in the "Rational Responders" ad is supposed to make me an Atheist?

[peachy]

I may be a bad widdle libertarian, but as far as earmarks go, money for one of the top teaching hospitals in the country is relatively unobjectionable. (Full disclosure, Ron Bailey style : my BA is from the UofC, and I have personal experience with UCH.)

I'd also point that he's secured an easy $15m for the University of Illinois system, and millions more have been requested for Illinois State, Northwestern, Chicago State, Loyola, Augustana, Illinois Institute of Technology, Southern Illinois etc. So really, if anyone is getting screwed here, it's the UofC.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Oh yeah, and Barack's pastor says blacks should "God damn America" not "God bless America."

Eh, I don't agree with this. Seriously, a lot of the black churches I went to while I was growing up put way too much in the way of politics in their sermons (which is why my mom stopped going to Genessee Baptist, for instance).

Of course, I've noticed a lot of Evangelical churches seem to have gotten really political, too. Many of the best churches I've gone to seemed fairly integrated.

Really, a lot of the leaders in predominantly African-American communities seem to be firebrands. Really, I was raised working/middle-class in the suburbs and a lot of the anger seemed alien to me.

Full disclosure: I haven't been to church in years and consider myself something of a Deist.

[Cesar]

Can we hear an attack on him thats not about his wife or his church? This is starting to get stale.

[Mateo de la Vega]

I think it is reasonable that some of a politician's earmarks would go to projects they or their friends have been or are involved in. I think the real question is legitimacy. I think earmarking money to go towards a hospital, especially in Chicago, is legit.

[Geotpf]

The main problem with earmarks is that they bypass any priority list of spending. That is, say there is $100 billion dollars to spend on roads. If an influential congressman (chair of the Transportation committee, say) wants a freeway built leading directly from his front door to his office that will cost $5 billion, even though it's not a priority project, he can jam in into the bill as a request for that specific project. That's an earmark.

The problem is that then there is now only $95 billion to spend on higher priority projects, or, more likely, there is now $105 billion spent instead of $100 billion (which either comes out of other departments, or, more likely, merely increases the deficit by $5 billion).

[Mo]

$1 Million for UofC vs. $10 Million for CHOI (Children's Hospital of Illinois). I think my outrage meter is broken.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Cesar: I could trot out the middle name thing if that'd make you feel better.

Or the essay he wrote in Kindergarten!

[BakedPenguin]

I could trot out the middle name thing if that'd make you feel better.

Or we could just wait for Chalupa to show up. I don't think he'd go after Obama's wife or church first...

[J sub D]

$1 Million for UofC vs. $10 Million for CHOI (Children's Hospital of Illinois). I think my outrage meter is broken.

Mine didn't budge. Maybe it's broke as well. I'll go test it on a different thread.

[peachy]

Yeah, this would only be an actual 'gotcha' if the UofC were receiving more money than other universities and hospitals. But it isn't. For fuck's sake, he wanted five million for Northwestern Memorial... and no UofC partisan wants to give those jerks in Evanston anything but a whack across the jaw with a two by four.

But, hell, what do you expect from the Sun Times?

[J sub D]

$1 Million for UofC vs. $10 Million for CHOI (Children's Hospital of Illinois). I think my outrage meter is broken.

Mine didn't budge. Maybe it's broke as well. I'll go test it on a different thread.

On another thread I just learned that some damned space aliens are quarantining Earth. My outrage meter, which almost pegged, is still functional after all. Hey, this wasn't something along the lines of a teapot museum (it's been done).

[shrike]

Earmarks are much ado about nothing - as bad as they sound.

Total of all earmarks this year = $30 billion - out of Bush's $3.1 trillion budget.

$30b too much? Yes, of course.

Keep on watching the bright bauble and neglect the 99% of your taxes that go into corporate coffers!

[Chris Potter]

I think a good question would be, was U of C receiving federal funding before Obama was in the Senate? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, so it's not like they're all of the sudden cashing in on their Obama connections.

[Dude]

What a douchey post, this is supposed to make Obama look bad? If this is the worst you can find, by all means bring on president Obama. How about the litany of evils Hillary and McCain have been involved in? Why does Reason suck so many balls these days? Here at Reason even Ron Paul is "far right." Go work for Wonkette please and bring back some intellectuals and real libertarians.

[shrike]

btw- linking Obama to his pastor is like linking a Catholic to pedophilia.

[Jorgen]

For fuck's sake, he wanted five million for Northwestern Memorial... and no UofC partisan wants to give those jerks in Evanston anything but a whack across the jaw with a two by four.

For Northwestern?! My outrage meter just got whiplash from spinning through dials so fast! In reality, though, the U of C needs Northwestern so that we look like rough around the edges nerds who love their work rather than snobs sucking at J D Rockefeller's teat.

[shrike]

And John McCain and John Hagee were hugging each other effusively - that Armageddon nutcase with a hard-on for worldwide war and destruction. You can't get worse than Hagee. Obama's nutty pastor is at least against worldwide destruction.

[Other Matt]

What a douchey post, this is supposed to make Obama look bad? If this is the worst you can find,....

Man's got to DO something first, or at least the man's got to SAY something of substance first. The quickest way to not do something wrong is to not do anything.

Much as one disagrees with Hilary, at least she's doing something. McCain, for all that people don't like, has a record of doing something, and being somewhat bipartisan to boot. Obama is a cult leader.

[Cesar]

And John McCain and John Hagee were hugging each other effusively - that Armageddon nutcase with a hard-on for worldwide war and destruction. You can't get worse than Hagee. Obama's nutty pastor is at least against worldwide destruction.

True. Hagee is worse. Unless you watch him completely blazed, then his tv services are pretty fucking funny.

[J sub D]

Keep on watching the bright bauble and neglect the 99% of your taxes that go into corporate coffers!

Which is also not true. Entitlements are the elephant of the budget, and everybody should know that.

[Boynton Cousin]

Right right, cult leader, nothing of substance, never did or said anything of value.

So, instead, let's vote for either the person who was dumb enough to believe that a vote for giving Bush the power to invade Iraq was a vote for weapons inspectors or the person who wants to attack Iran along with staying in Iraq for the next three/four generations.

That makes perfect sense.

[onlyalad]

linking Obama to his pastor is like linking a Catholic to pedophilia

Yeah, but if said Catholic stood by his priest even after he found out the priest was a boy-fucker...then it would be exactly the same no?

The vast majority of Catholics were disgusted by the pedophilia and renounced those who perpetrated it. On the other hand, this wackjob is still Obama's "spiritual advisor."

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Other Matt:

Man's got to DO something first, or at least the man's got to SAY something of substance first. The quickest way to not do something wrong is to not do anything.

Honestly, that's exactly the libertarian position summed up in a nutshell there. We can say we might be worried about what Obama might do, but not doing anything is no crime, and is in fact a point in his favor if he'll keep it up.

[TallDave]

btw- linking Obama to his pastor is like linking a Catholic to pedophilia.

Only if the Cathlic in question keeps going every Sunday after the priest openly espouses screwing children one day during Mass.

It's not like he couldn't have chosen another church.

Let's be honest - if Hillary or McCain had a decades-long relationship with a pastor that was saying things like this, it would be an issue.

Then there's the Weathermen thing.

I think it's reasonable to ask: is America going to elect a President named Hussein that has ties to terrorists and whose pastor says we brought 9/11 on ourselves?

I'm not clear why Dems thought this guy was electable; I think there must be something to the notion that they live in a friendly little MSM bubble. It's mind-boggling the candidates they put forward. Last time, they put out a guy whose very negative 1971 opinions of our troops were public record. This year, it's this guy or the most hated woman in America.

[shrike]

"Which is also not true. Entitlements are the elephant of the budget, and everybody should know that."

Hmmmm, I disagree for the most part. For example, the new Medicare Pharma Plan is a $700 billion "entitlement" for sure - driven by Pharma because they have price-fixed already developed drugs made for pennies while using the elderly as a temporary profit center in route to their bottom lines.

You see - it just SEEMS like the recipient of that $700 billion are the old folks. Keep staring at that bauble, J sub D.

It is shiny, isn't it?

[TallDave]

Full disclosure: I haven't been to church in years and consider myself something of a Deist.

Heh, me too. It's one of the more logically defensible religions.

I should add, Hussein is a beautiful name with a wonderful history, and I think Obama's campaign is making a mistake in running away from it rather than celebrating it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husayn_ibn_Ali

But apparently Dems think it's a liability, which again makes it odd they would nominate the guy.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

TallDave:

I'm not clear why Dems thought this guy was electable

Maybe because of this. Though now Clinton leads McCain too, that hasn't always been the case, and in fact in most polls she hasn't. (Scroll down in the links for that.)

[Elemenope]

It's one of the more logically defensible religions.

Eh? "My god? He's, um...he's retired. Yeah, that's it."

But on Obama, seriously, if this is the best dirt one can scrape up on the guy, then he's more than a shite sight better than the rest of the crowd.

[John McCain]

I think it's reasonable to ask: is America going to elect a President named Hussein that has ties to terrorists and whose pastor says we brought 9/11 on ourselves?

There will be more swiftboating, my friends.

[Syd]

Of course, he's Barack Hussein Obama, JR., so he's named after his father, not to hide some secret ties to Islam, or anything. Barack Jr.'s grandfather was a Muslim and it doesn't seem exceptional that he'd name his son Barack Hussein.

[shrike]

"Only if the Cathlic in question keeps going every Sunday after the priest openly espouses screwing children one day during Mass."

But Obama released a statement today where he expressed full disagreement with his priest/pastor/spirit guide.

So a priest can be a pedophile and retain his position (factual) and not disenfranchise all Catholics.

Wright is a Christian (for better or worse) - that is the big tenant that Obama prescribes to.

[Cesar]

Seriously, Republicans, is this the worst thing you have on him? God knows I don't love Democrats, but Christ! His pastor and his wife?

[Boynton Cousin]

"I'm not clear why Dems thought this guy was electable"

Yeah, yikes, a guy who raises more money than anyone else in the most contested presidential campaign in a generation and overcomes bizarre perceptions about his skin color, his religion, and his name to rise to the top of American politics in just three years, beating even Bill and Hillary Clinton in the process while also retaining a 60% favorable rating. Who would want that kind of loser?

[Cesar]

beating even Bill and Hillary Clinton in the process

That aint final yet. The Clintons will pull it out and all the Obamamania Democrats will come crying back to Hilldog. Watch.

[Josh]

If Republicans weren't chained to the Iraq war like they are, they could nail Obama on his passionate campaigning against the Iraq war, all the while his (now former) foreign policy adviser was saying that he will "not rely on some plan that he's crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator." Never mind that this "plan" is one of his biggest pitches for the White House.

If he's elected, I'll predict Obama is the next Teflon president.

[Boynton Cousin]

"That aint final yet."

Thank you for your concern, and what alternate reality backs up your prognostication? Hillary is done done done

"they could nail Obama on his passionate campaigning against the Iraq war, all the while his (now former) foreign policy adviser was saying that he will 'not rely on some plan that he's crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator.'"

Ah, selective quoting is fun, isn't it? How about the full thing:

"You can't make a commitment in March 2008 about what circumstances will be like in January of 2009," she said. "He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he's crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator. He will rely upon a plan - an operational plan - that he pulls together in consultation with people who are on the ground to whom he doesn't have daily access now, as a result of not being the president. So to think - it would be the height of ideology to sort of say, 'Well, I said it, therefore I'm going to impose it on whatever reality greets me.'"

"It's a best-case scenario," she said again.

Power kinda said something different than what you implied, didn't she?

[Jimmy\'s Brother]

Tall Dave: I think it's reasonable to ask: is America going to elect a President named Hussein that has ties to terrorists and whose pastor says we brought 9/11 on ourselves?

I'm much more comfortable with Obama's relationship to a defunct hippie Weatherman than Bush's relationship to the Bin Laden family.

We brought 9/11 on ourselves? That sounds familiar.... oh yea, it was Jerry Falwell, whose endorsement John McCain actively sought AFTER those comments.

Other Matt: Much as one disagrees with Hilary, at least she's doing something. McCain, for all that people don't like, has a record of doing something, and being somewhat bipartisan to boot. Obama is a cult leader.

Great specifics on Hillary's and McCain's record. Hillary has the foreign policy experience of Sinbad and Sheryl Crow, and a legislative record of naming post offices. And I can't wait to hear McCain explain why he killed the Boeing deal to give Airbus the contract. Nothing to do with his lobbyist laden campaign staff, I'm sure

Lastly, I find it extremely amusing to see the irritation of Reagan cultists that Obama is on the scene. Face it, OUR CULT IS BETTER THAN YOURS!!!

[Elemenope]

The Clintons will pull it out and all the Obamamania Democrats will come crying back to Hilldog.

At the risk of eating my words, I think it is all too possible to overestimate the greatly respected and feared "Clinton magical pol powers".

Seriously, they are smart and crafty, but not superhumanly so.

[Cesar]

Thank you for your concern, and what alternate reality backs up your prognostication?

Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, and the Superdelegates. Look, how many times have the Clintons been declared "dead" from 1992 on? Too many times to count, thats for sure.

[Calidore]

Cesar,

Currently Clinton and Obama are tied in Michigan (according to the polls I have seen) and the Superdelegates have lately been breaking more Obama's way than Clinton's. I don't think either of them have it in the bag myself.

[Cesar]

Calidore if its a tie, that favors Clinton since she knows the insider's game better than Obama who is, for all intents and purposes, a neophyte to federal politics.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Seriously, they are smart and crafty, but not superhumanly so.

And they've made their share of screw-ups this time. More than their share. They've even almost run the Giuliani strategy this time.

Of course they're operating under a pretty big disadvantage, too. They're fighting an opponent no one has quite figured out how to beat yet. I wouldn't really be surprised if Obama lost the nomination, but I've gotta say, if this is the Clinton's A game, it hasn't been that impressive.

Obama may lose, but if he loses he's probably a version of Reagan '76, waiting to be Reagan '80 in 2012 when people are ready to oust McCain.

[Cesar]

Obama may lose, but if he loses he's probably a version of Reagan '76

Thats what I've been saying for a while. This is the Democrats 1976. Obama just isn't ready for prime time.

[NAL]

This is unrelated to earmarks, but I've completely changed my mind regarding Obama.
I used to think he was unbeatable if he won the Dem primary, but with his connections to Rezco, Farrakhan, and his Pastor, with his wife shooting off her mouth, and as the realization settles in on just how liberal he is, the dems only hope to win in the general election is if Hillary is the candidate. Seriously, the GOP will have a field day with all his skeletons.

[Cesar]

I used to think he was unbeatable if he won the Dem primary, but with his connections to Rezco, Farrakhan, and his Pastor, with his wife shooting off her mouth, and as the realization settles in on just how liberal he is

QFMFT. Obama won't be our next President. Its so easy to swiftboat him.

[TallDave]

Maybe because of this.

Yeah, Obama polls well now, but so did John Kerry before most people knew what he had said and done in 1971. The vetting process is much tougher for a Prez candidate, which often seems lost on Democrats.

[John Thacker]

The best part of that earmark is that U of Chicago Hospital gave his wife a $200,000 annual raise immediately after he was elected Senator (and before the earmark.) Of course, you see that sort of thing all the time-- Sen. Obama was added to corporate boards after becoming a Senator, Melinda Gates suddenly became a Duke University trustee (she's an alumna) right after marrying Bill Gates, etc.

[Cesar]

Dave, Obama was um, 11 in 1971.

[TallDave]

driven by Pharma because they have price-fixed already developed drugs made for pennies

It's called the patent system. Sheesh.

Microchips are sold way over cost too. Hey, let's put that evil Intel Corp out of business.

[TallDave]

Dave, Obama was um, 11 in 1971.

LOL Your point being what, exactly?

[Cesar]

My point being if you want to attack Obama you have to move beyond Baby Bommer/1960s kulturkampf.

[TallDave]

I don't think anyone was looking to the 1960s.

The Rezko land deal (which looks very bad now, he appears to have gotten free land in a sham deal), Weathermen, the anti-American pastor, his wife, his far-left agenda, now this... maybe he's Teflon. But it's getting harder to live up to his airy rhetoric.

At this rate, better just hope he wasn't Client #10.

[Cesar]

The Rezko land deal

How did White Water work out for you? *ywan* the average voter doesn't understand these things. Try again.

[TallDave]

It's one of the more logically defensible religions. Eh? "My god? He's, um...he's retired. Yeah, that's it."

Well, Deism has a lot of flavors. The main tenet is the rejection of received wisdom in favor of embracing empiricism.

Jesus may or may not have turned water into wine; I wasn't there so I can't say. It's empiricially observable, though, that his message has done a lot of good (yes, many bad things have been done under Christianity aegis as well, but overall a huge net good).

[TallDave]

How did White Water work out for you?

LOL I wasn't an investor. A lot of people were convicted, though. But it wasn't a big issue in 1992. Rezko is a big deal now; he may bring down IL's governor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_(controversy)

the average voter doesn't understand these things.

Well, if you're betting on "our candidate is corrupt but no one will notice," I will wish you good luck as well.

[Cesar]

Hes not "my candidate" but seriously, scandals don't get a lot of attention unless they involve sex. Look at the reaction over white water vs. Monica Leswisnky. Thats just how its.

[Bob Smith]

Isn't this the same timeframe that the hospital tripled Michelle's salary from ~$100k to ~$300k?

[Bob Smith]

But Obama released a statement today where he expressed full disagreement with his priest/pastor/spirit guide.

But he still attends that church. If he really disagreed, he'd leave. From the sound of the crowds, plenty of churchgoers there like what the pastor is saying.

[Joe Shit The Rag Man]

I think it's a lab school at U of C

Dude, when I sent my lab to school it was a lot less prestigious than the U of C. He's real well behaved now though. Pees outsides and all.

[Joe Shit The Rag Man]

Can we hear an attack on him thats not about his wife or his church?

Normally, just the fact that he attends church is reason enuff (pun intended) for this crowd to pee all over him.

Okay! He's real bad on guns and he wants to further socialize medicine.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Jesus may or may not have turned water into wine; I wasn't there so I can't say

I WAS and I can say that Jesus absolutely turned the water into wine.

[Casey Serin]

Barack Obama is a gay man... not that there's anything wrong with that!

[loose nut runnin amuck]

why is it we either have a president who can't control his penis,or we get one who uses it to "do us??tricky dick nixon,along with cheney..george just seems to be the dummy while cheney is drinking the glass of water..-and pulling all the strings..
--the problem i have with obama is his voting record..seems he seldom shows up!..this was PRIOR to him running..
..and those who are scared of socialised medecine..if we could just get the profiteers out of the system-who double bill for operations they never preformed--then,i need SOMEONE to explain how the H.M.O's were suposed to save us money on our medical bills??when what they have done is ADDED another couple THOUSAND people-who want THEIR money,and do NOTHING to make me better-except beat the doctors down on their prices,THEN raise my co-pay??it's a house of cards..kind of like thew way used cars are sold here..you sell the sizzle-not the steak..
..will obama be able to fix health care??i think hillary has a better shot at doing the job..after all,WE DO NOT LEARN FROM SUCESS-WE LEARN FROM FAILURE!!
peace!

[loose nut runnin amuck]

"Honestly, that's exactly the libertarian position summed up in a nutshell there. We can say we might be worried about what Obama might do, but not doing anything is no crime, and is in fact a point in his favor if he'll keep it up."
-- can you say -KATRINA??--NEW ORLEANS??..THE ENTIRE GULF COAST??

[Firma]

obama will win : )

[Father Brennan]

When the Jews return to Zion
And a comet rips the sky
And the Holy Roman Empire rises,
Then You and I must die.
From the eternal sea he rises,
Creating armies on either shore,
Turning man against his brother
'Til man exists no more.

[Anoynmoose]

"Honestly, that's exactly the libertarian position summed up in a nutshell there. We can say we might be worried about what Obama might do, but not doing anything is no crime, and is in fact a point in his favor if he'll keep it up."
-- can you say -KATRINA??--NEW ORLEANS??..THE ENTIRE GULF COAST??

There wasn't too little government in New Orleans: There was too much. Private resources were turned down. FEMA sent away Wal-Mart trucks, for example.

I wish nothing was done. Then something would've been done.

[Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L]

Father Brennan: Excellent poem about Huckabee.

[anon]

Look at all squirming going on in this thread!!

People can't. . . accept. . . possibility that Obama is not 100%.

"RAWR AT LEAST HE'S NOT BUSH" - folks that doesn't cut it.

"RAWR IT'S A HOSPITAL" - true, but that money should come from local sources, not my pocket. I would like to see my money go to a local hospital.

"RAWR HIS WIFE DOESN'T CURRENTLY WORK THERE" - you just can't admit this was an error in judgement.

[joe]

I agree with Cesar.

There's no way Obama can stand up the Clinton machine.

Come Super Tuesday, he's done.

[highnumber]

The Rezko land deal (which looks very bad now, he appears to have gotten free land in a sham deal)

You have not actually read any news stories about this, have you?

From the AP:

Q: So Rezko bought the lot next door. Was that the end of his involvement?

A: No. Obama later bought one-sixth of that lot so that he would have a bigger side yard. Its value was appraised at $40,500, Obama says, but he paid one-sixth of what Rezko originally paid, or $104,500.

I don't support anybody in this race, but I get peeved with the smears. Fuckers like TallDave spreading lies about Obama, other assholes implying McCain was a traitor during Viet Nam, and I'm sure there's somebody doing something untoward regarding Clinton. [it's just tough to think of what she hasn't deserved. ;)]

[Mo]

Rezko

[Mo]

Rezko (much less worse than) Keating

McCain hasn't been vetted for a national campaign either. The NYT piece on the "affair" (the shady goings around it are far worse). Once his skeletons come out he won't be so squeaky clean either.

[Joe Shit The Rag Man]

FEMA sent away Wal-Mart trucks, for example

The National Guard sent the Salvation Army packing as well.

People don't realize that the rest of the Gulf Coast was in deep shit as well but the difference was the rest of the Gulf Coast isn't New Orleans. I had no idea NOLA was such shit hole until Katrina.

[Cesar]

I'm sick of people acting like the state and local governments had nothing to do with the Katrina response.

You notice how this kind of stuff never happened in Florida or North Carolina, even with major hurricanes? Thats because those states are at least run by grown-ups.

Miami has a lot of poor areas but you didn't see anybody looting TVs and Miller Beer when Andrew came through.

[Boynton Cousin]

"the anti-American pastor"

Can anyone explain what this means? Is he going attack it with car bombs? Guerilla warfare? What, exactly, makes Wright's list of grievances of some special "anti-American" quality far different from what other people, such as, let's say, the editors for Reason, constantly complain about the U.S. government for?

[John]

Boynton,

The Editors of Reason have never asked God to damn America.

[Maurkov]

Even the most scathing posts in this thread come off as praise by faint damnation. There's no question whether he's libertarian, only whether he's the least worst of the remaining three cadidates. Too liberal? It's the Democratic primary. Of course he's running to the left.

[NAL]

The editors of reason also don't blame everything on "rich white people". What an awful message for a Pastor to preach. "If you're having troubles, it's not your fault, it's whitey's fault." The fact that Obama voluntarily listened to this poison for 20 years makes him out to be a closet America hater (i.e. not just a government policy hater). He's toast. The Dems better find a way to get rid of him ASAP.

[Cesar]

Can someone actually give some links to the actual church? Not Free Republic, the official Church website or some other source.

[John]

http://www.tucc.org/home.htm

[Cesar]

I guess Obama's pastor must have said something like this:

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this [9/11] happen."

Oh, yeah, right. I forgot. That was from Jerry Falwell, Bush's "spiritual adviser".

[Cesar]

The United Church of Christ? Thats the scary Church?

[TallDave]

You have not actually read any news stories about this, have you?

More than you have apparently.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/29/105154/627

It's clear from the pictures Obama was using land that supposedly belonged to Rezko BEFORE he paid for it.

This is Chicago. No one is going to believe this was a "misunderstanding" as opposed to a friendly little kickback.

Fuckers like TallDave spreading lies about Obama

Yes, because pointing out a sham land deal is "lying."

[TallDave]

Cesar,

Right, because Bush has been attending Falwell's church for decades. Same thing! Just like the fact that Bush, like many national politicians, has a relationship with the billionaire bin Laden family that has long ago disowned Osama is EXACTLY like Obama (a leftist) hanging out with the Weathermen (a leftist terrorist group).

Today we find out the pastor also told the congregation that America created AIDS to keep Third World countries poor. Did Obama stand up and say "Amen!"?

[Cesar]

Yeah TallDave, and McCain was really a traitor in Veitnam.

Can't you Red/Blue assholes run a campaign about issues one fucking time in my life?

[TallDave]

Oh great, he even visited Gadafi with Louis Farrakhan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

During the course of the 2008 presidential campaign, Wright has also attracted controversy for his association with Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam.[11] Wright travelled to Libya with Farrakhan in the 1980s. In 2007, Wright addressed this by saying "When [Obama's] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell."[12] In 2007, Trumpet Magazine (published and edited by Wright's daughter) presented the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to Farrakhan, whom it said "truly epitomized greatness."

[TallDave]

Yeah TallDave, and McCain was really a traitor in Veitnam.

If you have any facts to back that up, I'd be happy to see them.

Can't you Red/Blue assholes run a campaign about issues one fucking time in my life?

Character matters too.

[Cesar]

Just ask these guys about McCain.

I'll take that response as a "no".

[TallDave]

Yeah TallDave, and McCain was really a traitor in Veitnam.

I'd be especially interested if you have some 1971 Viet Cong memos typed in Times New Roman, in English, obtained at a rodeo from Lucy Ramirez.

[Cesar]

If your team had anything to show this country from the last seven years besides abject failure you wouldn't have to make a sorry-assed attempt to turn this election into a referendum on Obama's pastor.

[TallDave]

Just ask these guys about McCain.

So their complaints boil down to:

1) He was rude.

2) He didn't help them release classified information.

3) He was tortured (real torture, not just running water over his head) into collaborating to some extent.

If they want to call him a traitor over that, good luck.

[Boynton Cousin]

"The Editors of Reason have never asked God to damn America."

Huh, so invoking God in a condemnation makes someone anti-American? Is that the standard?

"The editors of reason also don't blame everything on 'rich white people'."

Uh, could you point such a quotation out? Wright said the U.S. is "controlled by rich white people," a fact that seems indisputable, though you may disagree--perhaps Bush is actually Indian or something?

"What an awful message for a Pastor to preach. 'If you're having troubles, it's not your fault, it's whitey's fault.'"

Really, he said that? Where and when? Quotation marks make it look like you're directly quoting someone, but that doesn't show up in Google.

[TallDave]

If your team had anything to show this country from the last seven years besides abject failure

If your team had any honesty, they would admit that the prosperity, lack of attacks since 9/11, and removal of two heinous regimes over the last 7 1/2 years are great successes.

[Cesar]

Yeah, I don't get it. I'm pretty sure Congress is majority white (The Senate almost completely so), and almost 100% rich. The President is a rich white guy. 8/9 Justices of the Supreme Court are white, and all rich. Its not like he said something contrary to the facts.

[Cesar]

Bill Clinton didn't have any attacks by Al Qaeda on our soil between 1993 and the end of his term. Why weren't you singing his praises in 2000 then?

[TallDave]

Bill Clinton didn't have any attacks by Al Qaeda on our soil between 1993 and the end of his term.

I guess you didn't know U.S. embassies are American soil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings

[TallDave]

Why weren't you singing his praises in 2000 then?

Possibly because when he left office AQ was openly running training camps in Afghanistan, after helping to chase us of out Somalia.

[Boynton Cousin]

P.S. Who called Rod Parsley his "spiritual guide"?

The same Rod Parsley who wrote this:

The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion [Islam] destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

So the U.S. was founded to destroy Islam? Sounds kind of, er, anti-American.

[Cesar]

And now Al Qaeda openly runs training camps in western Pakistan. What an improvement!

[highnumber]

Great link, TallDave!

"Due to usage restrictions we are unable to provide this video."

Anyway that guy's bit there doesn't jibe with the pictures I have seen of Obama's house and Rezko's lot. That guy (based on the unavailable video) claims that Rezko owned Obama's front yard and gifted it to him. Pictures that I have seen clearly show Rezko's vacant lot next to Obama's house.

I live in Chicago, so I've been hearing about Rezko for quite a while now. Blago's got far more to worry about than Obama. It was definitely boneheaded on Obama's part to have a deal with Rezko. It shows that he was not above Chicago politics, but you don't need to make it into something far worse than it was. That's sleazy.

[Cesar]

Do you hate America, high number?

[Boynton Cousin]

"...you don't need to make it into something far worse than it was."

That's pre-9/11 thinking! Everything is worse than it was! 😉

[TallDave]

And now Al Qaeda openly runs training camps in western Pakistan. What an improvement!

They mostly hide in caves there, where the Paki government has vowed to destroy them, and periodically makes some attempt to do so. Yes, a huge improvement, given that they co-ruled Afghanistan with the Taliban.

[Cesar]

They mostly hide in caves there, where the Paki government has vowed to destroy them, and periodically makes some attempt to do so

Wrong. Pakistan doesn't govern those areas, they have close to zero control over them. Al Qaeda co-rules western Pakistan with the Pashtun tribes. The Federally Administered Tribal Areas have never been under the control of the Pakistani government since 1948.

[highnumber]

Do you hate America, high number?

God damn America!

😉

[Cesar]

Oh, lets see what another McCain supporter ( a preacher) says:

On the September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee stated that Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for "a level of sin that was offensive to God". He specifically referred to a "homosexual parade" that was held on the date the hurricane struck and that this was proof "of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans" [1]. Another reason for God's wrath, Hagee claims, was the Bush administration's pressure on Israel to abandon settlements and the land associated with them. Therefore, God took American land in a tit for tat exchange during Hurricane Katrina.

From the Wiki article on Hagee.

[TallDave]

It's unavailable because so many people have linked to it.

Here's one with a screen grab:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/obama_rezko_purchase.php

It's pretty clear Rezko bought the land and Obama used it and maintained it.

But hey, this is Chicago, and friends help friends. I mean, who should Rezko give his land to? His enemies?

It shows that he was not above Chicago politics, but you don't need to make it into something far worse than it was. That's sleazy.

LOL So the sleazy people are the ones who point out corruption, as opposed to the ones who actually engage in corruption? I see. Interesting worldview you have there.

[highnumber]

yer dense, dood.

[TallDave]

Wrong. Pakistan doesn't govern those areas, they have close to zero control over them.

I didn't say they governed it, I said they periodically attacked AQ there. This isn't exactly a secret.
--------
Pakistan's New Waziristan Strategy
On June 4th the National Security Council of Pakistan met to decide the fate of Waziristan and take up a number of political and administrative decisions to control "Talibanization" of the area. The meeting was chaired by President Pervez Musharraf and it was attended by the Chief Ministers and Governors of all 4 provinces. They discussed the deteriorating law and order situation and the threat posed to state security.

The government decided to take a number of actions to stop the "Talibanization" and to crush the armed militancy in the Tribal regions and the NWFP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waziristan

The NSC of Pakistan has decided the following actions will be taken to achieve the goals:[citation needed]

Deployment of unmanned reconnaissance planes
Strengthening law-enforcement agencies with advanced equipment
Deployment of more troops to the region
Operations against militants on a fast-track basis
Focused operations against militant commanders
Action against madrassahs preaching militancy
Appointment of regional coordinators
Fresh Recruitments of police officers in NWFP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waziristan_War

And the Waziri tribes were always friendly with AQ. That's why AQ fled there.

[Cesar]

Mushraff will tell us whatever we want to hear so he gets more foreign aid goodies. It doesn't mean hes actually doing anything worthwhile.

If you want to take a guy like Musharaff at face value, be my guest. But he says one thing to us and another to the Pakistanis.

[TallDave]

You might have a point with those quotes if McCain had long relationships, including regularly attending their church services, with those people, co-writing speeches, and naming a book he wrote after one of their sermons.

[Boynton Cousin]

Hagee said, "Therefore, God took American land in a tit for tat exchange during Hurricane Katrina."

When the water receded and the levees were put back in semi-functioning order, did Hagee then believe that God had given the land back? Agents of God, those Army Corps of Engineers.

[Cesar]

Its worse actually. McCain denounces those kind of people in 2000, and then comes running to them in 2008 and sucks up to them every chance he gets. You want to talk about character? That says something about his character.

[TallDave]

Mushraff will tell us whatever we want to hear so he gets more foreign aid goodies. It doesn't mean hes actually doing anything worthwhile.

Yes, I suppose the media is just making all those reports of fighting. Sheesh.

Yes, we are much much better off with AQ hiding in Waziristan, hunted by the Pakis, than openly running Afghanistan.

[Cesar]

You act like had Al Gore been President there would have been to war in Afgahnistan. Cut me a break, even Kucinnuch or Paul would have taken action against the Taliban after 9/11.

[TallDave]

Its worse actually.

ROTFLMAO.

[Boynton Cousin]

"You might have a point with those quotes if McCain had..."

...called Parsley his "spiritual guide." Oh wait, he did.

[TallDave]

Cut me a break, even Kucinnuch or Paul would have taken action against the Taliban after 9/11.

I think the complaint is more that Clinton left those camps going even after the first WTC attack, Khobar Towers, the Cole, the embassy bombings, the Millennium plot...

Also, as much as lefties like to claim they would have fought the currently popular war but not the currently unpopular war, those of us who remember 2001 recall the claims it was a "quagmire" and a "tarbaby" and "the graveyard of empires" after three weeks, before the Taliban collapsed overnight, and are doubtful.

[TallDave]

"You might have a point with those quotes if McCain had..."

...called Parsley his "spiritual guide." Oh wait, he did.

Yeah, exactly like a decades-long personal relationship!

ROFL Good luck, go ahead and run with that.

[Cesar]

Dave he had even if he had had the domestic political capital to launch a war in Afgahnistan, he would have been totally unable to obtain basing rights in Uzbekistan in the late 90s. Unfortunatley the only thing which shocked the central Asian countries into doing that was 9/11.

[Cesar]

Dave, you never have personal relationships with people you disagree politically? Is EVERYONE you hang out with a Conservative Republican?

[Cesar]

Also, how many people in the Congress voted AGAINST the Afgahnistan War? I think there was maybe one. Nobody outside of the fringe ANSWER Krewe and equally far, far-fringe paleoconservatives seriously voiced opposition to going after that Taliban after 9/11.

[Boynton Cousin]

"Yeah, exactly like a decades-long personal relationship!"

So "spiritual advisor" has no meaning to McCain, and he was just sucking up to this Parsley idiot for votes? Now that's straight talk!

[Boynton Cousin]

Er, "spiritual guide"... Hard to say which sounds weirder, frankly, with McCain's insincerity.

[Cesar]

Don't forget, Boynton, he also called Falwell an "agent of intolerance" and then a few years later spoke at his "University".

[highnumber]

Can't we all just get along?

Let's get together to hate on Hillary for a bit.

[Cesar]

Good idea. Everyone hates Hillary.

Though your state did give us to her, Highnumber. 😉

[Cesar]

Er, I mean, "gave her to us".

[Boynton Cousin]

Sure thing, 12,392,839,892: she was at one time incredibly feared and the "inevitable candidate" but she's run her campaign like Bush has run Iraq. Arrogance? Stupidity? Were 90s Republicans just more flat-footed than Obama?

[Chris Potter]

If your team had any honesty, they would admit that the prosperity,

Huh? Prosperity? You smoking something?

lack of attacks since 9/11,

So Bush has had one more terrorist attack (or four more attacks, if you count each target) on US soil during his term than Clinton had. (And if you're going to count the Kenyan embassy bombing against Clinton, you should also count the daily attacks on US troops and civilians in Iraq as well.) Speaking of which...

and removal of two heinous regimes over the last 7 1/2 years are great successes.

Sorry, but Saddam Hussein being in power in Iraq, ruthless dictator though he was, was far better for our interests than the cluster that's there now. Honestly, the arrangement that existed in 2002 was probably better for most Iraqis, too, as evidenced by the fact that many who had no problem staying in Iraq during the height of the Saddam despotism have left for Syria and Jordan since being "liberated".

[R C Dean]

Er, I mean, "gave her to us".

No, I think you had it right the first time.

I'm a lot closer to being Hillary's bitch than she is to being mine.

[Cesar]

Were 90s Republicans just more flat-footed than Obama?

Perhaps they were more inept politically but Congressional Republicans of the 90s did a hell of a better job running the country.

[Boynton Cousin]

Really, better than whom, Republicans of the 00s? I think most of the benefits of the 90s are attributable to the tech/internet explosion, not to any particular governmental body or political figure. Though Robert Rubin was probably pretty good.

[joe]

Yes, we are much much better off with AQ hiding in Waziristan, hunted by the Pakis, than openly running Afghanistan.

We'd be better off still if they had listened to John Kerry and put a meaningful number of American troops at Tora Bora, instead of garrisoning 30,000 in Kabul and sending most of the available Special Forces to Iraq. But that would require a president more interested in fighting terrorists than building an empire.

Anyone who has ever attended church services regularly knows what it's like to sit politely as the clergyman says something stupid about politics.

$104,000 is more than I paid for my first house. In Massachusetts. In the late 1990s. That's quite the "gift."

[joe]

TallDave claims "no attacks since 9/11," but when confronted by the point that we went even longer without an attack after the first WTC bombing, retreats back to the Cole and Khobar Towers.

You REALLY wanna start comparing numbers of American military killed in the middle east, TallDave? REALLY? Because it doesn't work out so well for you.

But, hey, at least you didn't try to hide your politics behind the actual names of dead soldiers, like you did last time this came up.

[bookworm]

I believe the reason why there havn't been any attacks in the US since 9/11 is because al Quada is patient. It took them years to plan 9/11. They want to make sure everything goes according to plan.

[NAL]

Anyone who has ever attended church services regularly knows what it's like to sit politely as the clergyman says something stupid about politics.

I'm sorry, that kind of apologetic excuse doesn't work here. It's not like the Pastor was injecting a bit of politics to illustrate a larger point. If you've heard any of the remarks, they are extremely hateful, racist and unpatriotic (the "extremely" modifies all three adjectives there) and they were yelled at the top of his lungs as the crowd cheered.
Just being willing to spend 20 years of your life associating with the congregation that cheered through all that is damning.

Together with the Weather Underground, Farrakhan, and Michelle Obama's recent slip ups, it paints a picture of Obama being a closet racist, America hater, and anti-Semite.

Stick a fork in him. He's done.

[NAL]

...by the way he also donated $22,500 to the church. I don't think anyone would be willing to do that for a church unless you really agreed with the message of the Pastor.

[NAL]

HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

[joe]

If you've heard any of the remarks,

You mean, if I heard the 30 seconds of quotes taken from 36 years worth of preaching?

What are you, a former communicant?

[wayne]

So, let's summarize:

Obama is an intimate of a crook in Chicago who "helped" BO buy a house in Chicago.

Obama and his "finally proud to be American" wife are twenty-year long members of a church that is rooted in racism. By the way, this puts Michelle Obama's "finally proud to be American" quote in a now quite understandable context.

Yeah, BO is presidential material; fits the Democratic mold quite well.

[wayne]

In my opinion, BO's long-standing racist church membership completely destroys his prospect of election.

[TallDave]

Yeeowch.

http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/03/barack-obama-agrees-with-reverend.html

Barack Obama has attended Wright's sermons for over twenty years. By his own admission, Obama consults with Wright before making any "bold political decisions." Obama calls Wright his "spiritual advisor." He calls Wright one of his prime mentors. Obama got the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope," from a Wright sermon of the same name. He says that Wright was extremely important in shaping his life and his views. Obama and his wife were married by Rev. Wright. Reverend Wright baptized Obama's daughters. Barack Obama donated over $20,000 to Wright's church in 2006. He continues attending services in Wright's church.

http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2008/03/barack-obama-agrees-with-reverend.html

This is the guy who says Americas created AIDS to keep the Third World down, the we brought 9/11 on ourselves, and pretty much everything wrong in the world is Whitey's fault.

Hope! Change! Unity! Kill Whitey!

You mean, if I heard the 30 seconds of quotes taken from 36 years worth of preaching?

lawlz

"But ossifer, what aboud my swerty-thix years of NOT driving drunk?"

[TallDave]

You REALLY wanna start comparing numbers of American military killed in the middle east, TallDave? REALLY? Because it doesn't work out so well for you.

Small difference, as I've pointed out before: WE WERE NOT AT WAR THEN. We hadn't just removed two heinous, terror-supporting regimes. We hadn't helped Afghans and Iraqis hold free and fair elections.

Al Qaeda was killing our troops pretty much with impunity under Clinton. Now we're (FINALLY) fighting back.

[TallDave]

We'd be better off still if they had listened to John Kerry and put a meaningful number of American troops at Tora Bora, instead of garrisoning 30,000 in Kabul and sending most of the available Special Forces to Iraq. But that would require a president more interested in fighting terrorists than building an empire.

Do you even know what Tora Bora looks like? You could have 100,000 troops there and still not catch someone (the Soviets couldn't). There's a reason rebels are always hiding in the mountains: it's very hard to find people in them.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I'm sorry, that kind of apologetic excuse doesn't work here. It's not like the Pastor was injecting a bit of politics to illustrate a larger point. If you've heard any of the remarks, they are extremely hateful, racist

You really might want to look into McCain's "relationship" with Rod Parsley

and Michelle Obama's recent slip ups I see nothing wrong with Michelle Obama's comments.

it paints a picture of Obama being a closet racist, America hater, and anti-Semite

If you say so. BTW, I personally wouldn't ever play the "closet racist" game because that opens up a whole ugly can of worms.

[gary]

wake up people ...this is really sad, that we are easily coerced, and have really short memories/attention spans ...

wake up, people ...

BUSH-CLINTON-CLINTON-BUSH-BUSH-?-?

I'm not sure which candidate will fill in those question marks, but I do know that choosing a Clinton or a McCain would make the chain look awfully depressing.

It would be interesting to see a reporter and historian team up to do an educational piece in the context of past candidates, their promises, and how they compare to the the current candidates that covers:

* the last time the average American could live comfortably and support a family on one salary
* the last time a college-educated student did not graduate from college eye-ball deep in debt
* empirical/quantitative evidence of how many democracies have been established by invasion and conquest
* Our China connection and how much muscular diplomacy has been used to gain concessions on the oppressed Tibetan people (btw, we did not seem to have any compunction about "negotiating" or talking with this oppressive regime yet the Media and other candidates are terrifically excited to criticize Obama for speaking yet coming from a position of seeking concessions/movement on intractable issues
* The contamination of our food/water supply
* The overreaching and profit-minded pharmaceutical industry and the number of people that die every year because of faulty/toxic/knowingly dangerous drugs ...

But, that would be too much of a story, so instead of picking an item that means something to the average American placed in the context of history, prior candidacies, and future plans ...

we pick Geraldine Ferraro and Jeremiah Wright ... Buddhist Monks were gunned down in China yesterday.. what do the candidates think about that? What do their histories suggest about how they might handle China (an oppressive regime that Hillary and McCain had few problems "speaking/negotiating with") ?

Bravo. Keep up the good (lowercase g) work - what a great service to the American people ... Sometimes I can't tell where the tabloids stop and the MSM starts .. Rupert Murdock has thoroughly changed the chessboard for spineless editors and journalists and so we get this divisive tripe that is designed to continue to influence Americans to vote AGAINST their own interests ...

WAKE UP ... the Earmarks were legitimate and important to the constituencies he served